I'm not really one hundred percent shure but from my limited Kislev experience I feel like problem with streltsi isn't attack animation itself. If unit is left in ranged mode, only few of them will actually fight in melee, few shoot if in guard mode, but most just stand around or constantly switch between stances. From what I've seen they work according to their stats if you completely turn off ranged attack and order entire unit to fight in melee, but that's very micro intensive and makes them just extremely pricey mid tier combat unit.
They have splash attacks in melee, which makes it very difficult for them to actually kill enemy models, which was also a problem for Dwarf Hammerers after they added splash attacks towards the end of WH2, before finally removing it and giving them magic attacks in patch 2.1. Not getting their charge bonus in practice and having somewhat poor melee stats at 28ma/md along with a low model count also doesn't help.
Overpowered faction with the most sweaty degenerate build possible nearly loses to a pits faction with bugged units and a true heavy metal grit build even after getting their lord sniped. Kislev won in spirit.
Every time I see a game with four marauder horsemen I get closer and closer to clicking off the video. So frustrating watching them and hellstriders make up half of every chaos army ever
Streltsi do have a bug where against targets bigger than infantry they have splash attacks active. For low WS units this is a net negative in terms of performance since you make more attack rolls per attack and kill entities more slowly. Against infantry their melee performance should function according to the stats but when compromised by cav it's a problem.
Land battles aren't perfect but two full armies clashing until one side is wiped out is so much better than units trickling in one at a time for 15 minutes and the battle just ending mid battle. The tournament scene had it's moment in WH2 when it really shined but Domination mode has made it barely alive and Turin is it's life-support.
@@Black_Phillip I find Domination a lot more interesting than land battles. The balance between trading well and holding on to the points is very complex, and the endings are usually way more fun as rather than two or three nearly dead units running at each other fighting for five seconds, and then routing you get proper ending battles.
@@federicovelutini6115 It can be fun when it's a close match with equally skilled players but when one side is dominating you're just waiting for the timer to run out while in a land battle the match would already be over. This was a nice quick match that didn't feel artificially drawn out.
@@Black_Phillip I really just couldn't disagree more. Domination is just infinitely more functional as a game mode, and has made the game actually work in competitive formats for the first time. It's really the saving grace of the third game as far as multiplayer goes, and for me it makes land battles feel hopelessly repetitive and simplistic by comparison.
@@SootShade The only thing that seems better to me about domination is that you don't need to police player matches and make sure they're following the rules. If you have two skilled players up against each other who aren't playing scummy, land battles are more enjoyable for me as a spectator. Otherwise it just sucks lol
The freaking Dodgeball thumbnail, absolutely amazing! Battle was great too. I haven't tested this myself, but would you be able to destroy artillery pieces maybe if you ground/manual targetted them with your own artillery? Or possibly bombardment spells?
To be fair she did try to move away as soon as Archie got there - yeah maybe she shouldn't have been up there to begin with since she was on foot, but it looked liked she got wrecked in 2 hits so not a lot of time to react lol. Ouch
i'm not sure if its just me but i'm really starting to resent some of these lords that just cant be killed you shoot them for days swarm them with anti-large and they just get tickled its really infuriating ive had single lords wipe out half my army this chaos lord the dark elf guy and Tzeentch big bird they just do everything and more at least this guy cant fly but its still nuts so much ap shooting had the whole bear force on his ass and got a scratch, i hate. P.s i know the names of the lords but i dont type them because i cant spell them xD.
Bad gun formation, no little grom, no wolf summons for anti-large, no ice guard, just charges his war bears to death and lost his calvary in the front line too wow what a trainwreck kislev game.
Any time I see horseman you just know it’ll devolve into the same type of battle at the end, horseman cycle charging the player who should have won if it wasn’t for the most Op unit in the game
Great stuff! I much prefer playing domination and I think it is a superior multiplayer mode, but I admit, land battles are generally still more fun to watch. Might be the biggest reason I'm engaging with WH3 a lot less..
Not sure why this was suggested to me as I haven't been subbed for a long time. If this one of the first steps of mending the shism you and CA have created, then I am all for it. Man - I miss the good old times - I even used to get my wife and kids in to listen to the good old Turin rants at times :)
Maybe, there's another LB from a few days ago too! I wholeheartedly agree with 'If this one of the first steps of mending the shism you and CA have created', my WH video watching was practically gutted overnight when Turin and others switched so hard into DB. I honestly think there was some sheninigans going on with CA making, or enticing, DB only.
i honestly think all gun units in this game need a buff spare maybe the armored kossars they are fun to watch but never do as much damage as archers it can be really hard for them to get good shots and even when they do get multiple full volleys off against armor im always like "meh" im not sure if they are just broken or what but i would almost rather pay the cost of a gun unit and get a goblin archer unit because i generally find them more useful despite being like 350 gold cheaper or w/e
and believe you me i have tried time and time again to make them work but even in the most ideal situations vs players that are not very good im just utterly disappointed i get excited if even one of my 3-4 gun men almost pays for themselves lmao
Honestly this match is a perfect showcase of Kislev's strengths and weaknesses. Their biggest issue right now is twofold. Their magic is mediocre, and their heroes/lords are just a resounding *meh*. Katarin and casters are so delicate they can be assassinated by anyone who's faster than they are. Kostaltin and patriarchs are able to escape fights but don't really win any themselves. Boris is just too expensive and the roster NEEDS a life-caster. I've heard people say that Lullaby is good healing, but I just don't see it. Compared to a proper life-caster, or undead healing there's just no comparison with the amounts healed. But the infantry and core roster is good. Kislev along with Cathay desperately NEED a good DLC to give them some viable variety and spice to their rosters. Also Streltsi have been buggy for me since launch and they never seem to do quite as well as armored kossars when it comes to shooting, no idea why.
Salyak's good healing because you can also stack it with Dazh's Brazier, having chunky AoE healing spells with no Winds cost is pretty useful, especially if you're rolling with any kind of bear based army. Major issue with Kislev personally is their roster is over-costed. Their stats are adjusted to account for their dual flexibility in being able to shoot, but they triple dip by lowering the model count and increasing the unit's cost. Two benefits are weighed against three drawbacks.
Good points and I hear you about the healing, but honestly I've seen the healing be so damn good and oppressive on single entity blobs, that adding Lore of Life would definitely be too good. In a Free-for-All for example, whenever I see a Kislev stack of bears, sleds, leopards, and 2 Patriarchs, I know they will be last team standing XD. The mobility + Mass + Heals is crazy. My 2 cents at least.
Some very questionable decisions on part of chaos player. diving deep into caster prove to be good decision but only by opponent mistake. otherwise it could have been a kill on archaon with 2 characters and elite antilarge. procking his massive AoE while his LD was still in 50's when seconds later he and 4 units of marouders charged in to deal with shooting infantry just hurt to watch, that could have been so much cleaner a fight. at the end charging with marouders and horseman slow tzar guard when just 100 m away there was still fighting kossars hurt me personally. Overall good, but sloppy game. Loved running chaos cannon tho.
No they dont. In no world do hybrid human infantry need the melee stats of elite elf infantry. Frankly streltsy are too good in combat as is given theyre black powder shooting units.
@@notarealperson8956 They cost 250 gold for a unit that is functionally just empire handgunners. I think giving them a bit more bite in melee makes sense thematically and Kislev isn't exactly a high performance faction in MP so I don't see the issue in taking a unit that I think, quite frankly, you over pay for and making that extra cost a bit more enticing. Maybe bump the melee attack to 34 but lower their melee defense to 22? I just think Kislevs current issue, in multiplayer, is that your often times paying extra for units that don't perform nearly as well as comparable more specialized counterparts of other factions on top of them having lackluster lords and magic.
There’s a difference between a bit more bite, and the stats of white lions. If they made that change they would cost only 50 gold more than white lions despite having a really powerful ranged attack.
@@AytonGang Perhaps I should be a bit more specific: I don't want them to have the exact same stat line as white lions only for their melee attack and defense to be redistributed so that they have a bit more offensive potency in melee. I think they will still be pretty vulnerable to heavy cavalry and other fast moving disruptive units but they they could still generate some extra value even if they get caught in melee. I know its a bit out of the norm but I think fits the thematic design of streltsi and Kislev better. I don't think it would be overpowered. I mean what's the point of them having Armor piercing great weapons if they can't use them to good effect?
Honestly if the Ice Witch hadnt been completely thrown away this was an easy W for Kislev. Absolutely catastrophic mistake to just let that happen by throwing the caster on the front line.
I'm not really one hundred percent shure but from my limited Kislev experience I feel like problem with streltsi isn't attack animation itself. If unit is left in ranged mode, only few of them will actually fight in melee, few shoot if in guard mode, but most just stand around or constantly switch between stances. From what I've seen they work according to their stats if you completely turn off ranged attack and order entire unit to fight in melee, but that's very micro intensive and makes them just extremely pricey mid tier combat unit.
They have splash attacks in melee, which makes it very difficult for them to actually kill enemy models, which was also a problem for Dwarf Hammerers after they added splash attacks towards the end of WH2, before finally removing it and giving them magic attacks in patch 2.1.
Not getting their charge bonus in practice and having somewhat poor melee stats at 28ma/md along with a low model count also doesn't help.
@@Matt-ln7lb that splash attack would explain why they underperform against cavalry in melee so badly
Honestly, I thought the lighting was thematic lol. Chaos in the shadows and Kislev in the light with the battling taking place in between.
Same thought here, it was cool to see it pushed back and forth across the light line
Upvote for Land Battle! I'm surprised, but not an unwelcome one!
omg land battles finally!
Overpowered faction with the most sweaty degenerate build possible nearly loses to a pits faction with bugged units and a true heavy metal grit build even after getting their lord sniped.
Kislev won in spirit.
Every time I see a game with four marauder horsemen I get closer and closer to clicking off the video. So frustrating watching them and hellstriders make up half of every chaos army ever
its cool to see a land battle again
Streltsi do have a bug where against targets bigger than infantry they have splash attacks active. For low WS units this is a net negative in terms of performance since you make more attack rolls per attack and kill entities more slowly. Against infantry their melee performance should function according to the stats but when compromised by cav it's a problem.
While I can’t say I love land battles over dom, changing it up from time to time is always great! Thanks for another great video!
Land battles aren't perfect but two full armies clashing until one side is wiped out is so much better than units trickling in one at a time for 15 minutes and the battle just ending mid battle. The tournament scene had it's moment in WH2 when it really shined but Domination mode has made it barely alive and Turin is it's life-support.
@@Black_Phillip I find Domination a lot more interesting than land battles. The balance between trading well and holding on to the points is very complex, and the endings are usually way more fun as rather than two or three nearly dead units running at each other fighting for five seconds, and then routing you get proper ending battles.
@@federicovelutini6115 It can be fun when it's a close match with equally skilled players but when one side is dominating you're just waiting for the timer to run out while in a land battle the match would already be over. This was a nice quick match that didn't feel artificially drawn out.
@@Black_Phillip I really just couldn't disagree more. Domination is just infinitely more functional as a game mode, and has made the game actually work in competitive formats for the first time. It's really the saving grace of the third game as far as multiplayer goes, and for me it makes land battles feel hopelessly repetitive and simplistic by comparison.
@@SootShade The only thing that seems better to me about domination is that you don't need to police player matches and make sure they're following the rules. If you have two skilled players up against each other who aren't playing scummy, land battles are more enjoyable for me as a spectator. Otherwise it just sucks lol
Love a good land battle.
The freaking Dodgeball thumbnail, absolutely amazing! Battle was great too. I haven't tested this myself, but would you be able to destroy artillery pieces maybe if you ground/manual targetted them with your own artillery? Or possibly bombardment spells?
kinda love that gun line. Great fun. Streltsi are just such an awesome unit in theory.
the 1000th game of skirmish cav and helstriders, FUN!
Wow! What a battle!
@Turin most rifle units have broken animations its most noticeable with strelki.
half the map is covered in shadow. is that a visual glitch or is that the way the map is supposed to be?
What was the plan with the caster? Feeding foot casters to Archaon is a strange choice.
To be fair she did try to move away as soon as Archie got there - yeah maybe she shouldn't have been up there to begin with since she was on foot, but it looked liked she got wrecked in 2 hits so not a lot of time to react lol. Ouch
Land battle i love it😍
@Turin pretty sure you could destroy siege weapons like cannons in something like Mediaeval 2?
Nice to see a land battle again
i'm not sure if its just me but i'm really starting to resent some of these lords that just cant be killed you shoot them for days swarm them with anti-large and they just get tickled its really infuriating ive had single lords wipe out half my army this chaos lord the dark elf guy and Tzeentch big bird they just do everything and more at least this guy cant fly but its still nuts so much ap shooting had the whole bear force on his ass and got a scratch, i hate.
P.s i know the names of the lords but i dont type them because i cant spell them xD.
Land Battles!
Can the cannon be controlled manually?
Thank you for a land battle please do more
Yes!
yeah streltsi do splash damage which makes them useless in melee; just like hammerers used to do but they fixed those.
Land battle hoy!
Land battle!
Me: Wipes away a tear of joy
Missed the land battles
Me too!
Bad gun formation, no little grom, no wolf summons for anti-large, no ice guard, just charges his war bears to death and lost his calvary in the front line too wow what a trainwreck kislev game.
I'll forgive you for calling the leopards wolves XD. Winter wolves for Kislev would be sick
Any time I see horseman you just know it’ll devolve into the same type of battle at the end, horseman cycle charging the player who should have won if it wasn’t for the most Op unit in the game
Great stuff! I much prefer playing domination and I think it is a superior multiplayer mode, but I admit, land battles are generally still more fun to watch. Might be the biggest reason I'm engaging with WH3 a lot less..
superior compared to no rules land battles. Land Battles with rules are a lot more fair than dom.
@@Chosen-of-Asuryan Agreed
bears. BEARS
are they using a mod because ive never seen a regiment of renown hell cannon
No it is in game! You just need to download some thing from CA's online portal
Good game, despite the chaos mouth breathing.
F*** n A, Cotton!
6:03 hmm sus
Landed battle
Long Live Archaon
I think Archeon is a bit too strong for what he do. Insanely strong combatant, AND spells
He's finally worth his cost after being overpriced for almost 2.5 games. He's expensive and he's the big bad in the lore. He should be strong.
Well i mean, thats lore accurate. He should be the top dog in WH setting.
Reave. Ruin. Raidboss.
Not sure why this was suggested to me as I haven't been subbed for a long time. If this one of the first steps of mending the shism you and CA have created, then I am all for it. Man - I miss the good old times - I even used to get my wife and kids in to listen to the good old Turin rants at times :)
Maybe, there's another LB from a few days ago too! I wholeheartedly agree with 'If this one of the first steps of mending the shism you and CA have created', my WH video watching was practically gutted overnight when Turin and others switched so hard into DB. I honestly think there was some sheninigans going on with CA making, or enticing, DB only.
i honestly think all gun units in this game need a buff spare maybe the armored kossars they are fun to watch but never do as much damage as archers it can be really hard for them to get good shots and even when they do get multiple full volleys off against armor im always like "meh" im not sure if they are just broken or what but i would almost rather pay the cost of a gun unit and get a goblin archer unit because i generally find them more useful despite being like 350 gold cheaper or w/e
and believe you me i have tried time and time again to make them work but even in the most ideal situations vs players that are not very good im just utterly disappointed i get excited if even one of my 3-4 gun men almost pays for themselves lmao
GG
LAnd battles :)
Honestly this match is a perfect showcase of Kislev's strengths and weaknesses.
Their biggest issue right now is twofold. Their magic is mediocre, and their heroes/lords are just a resounding *meh*. Katarin and casters are so delicate they can be assassinated by anyone who's faster than they are. Kostaltin and patriarchs are able to escape fights but don't really win any themselves. Boris is just too expensive and the roster NEEDS a life-caster. I've heard people say that Lullaby is good healing, but I just don't see it. Compared to a proper life-caster, or undead healing there's just no comparison with the amounts healed.
But the infantry and core roster is good. Kislev along with Cathay desperately NEED a good DLC to give them some viable variety and spice to their rosters. Also Streltsi have been buggy for me since launch and they never seem to do quite as well as armored kossars when it comes to shooting, no idea why.
Salyak's good healing because you can also stack it with Dazh's Brazier, having chunky AoE healing spells with no Winds cost is pretty useful, especially if you're rolling with any kind of bear based army. Major issue with Kislev personally is their roster is over-costed. Their stats are adjusted to account for their dual flexibility in being able to shoot, but they triple dip by lowering the model count and increasing the unit's cost. Two benefits are weighed against three drawbacks.
Is there lore reason for life casters on the roster? Patriarchs' healing is quite on theme currently.
@@Insandom Wonder how much cost By Our Blood adds on too.
Good points and I hear you about the healing, but honestly I've seen the healing be so damn good and oppressive on single entity blobs, that adding Lore of Life would definitely be too good. In a Free-for-All for example, whenever I see a Kislev stack of bears, sleds, leopards, and 2 Patriarchs, I know they will be last team standing XD. The mobility + Mass + Heals is crazy. My 2 cents at least.
The chaos army would of been shredded by spear kossars
Spear Kossars lose to Marauders and Archie would have an easy time clearing them out with a few Burning Head casts.
@A Midnight Dreary checker board formation to avoid a lot of AoE
And most mauraders would be quickly killed by arrows
@@christianweibrecht6555 Checkerboard? They're playing against a human opponent, not the AI.
@@thepiousskull in multiplayer checker board formations are common for empire & dwarf
Seeing Kislev defeated brings a smile to my haggard face.
Booooo
@@Nickelback8469 Hehehe ^^
Some very questionable decisions on part of chaos player. diving deep into caster prove to be good decision but only by opponent mistake. otherwise it could have been a kill on archaon with 2 characters and elite antilarge. procking his massive AoE while his LD was still in 50's when seconds later he and 4 units of marouders charged in to deal with shooting infantry just hurt to watch, that could have been so much cleaner a fight. at the end charging with marouders and horseman slow tzar guard when just 100 m away there was still fighting kossars hurt me personally. Overall good, but sloppy game.
Loved running chaos cannon tho.
Give Kislev frost wyvern
Whoa is that a thing in tabletop?
Strelsi I think need the melee stats of war lions of chrace
No they dont. In no world do hybrid human infantry need the melee stats of elite elf infantry. Frankly streltsy are too good in combat as is given theyre black powder shooting units.
@@notarealperson8956 They cost 250 gold for a unit that is functionally just empire handgunners. I think giving them a bit more bite in melee makes sense thematically and Kislev isn't exactly a high performance faction in MP so I don't see the issue in taking a unit that I think, quite frankly, you over pay for and making that extra cost a bit more enticing. Maybe bump the melee attack to 34 but lower their melee defense to 22? I just think Kislevs current issue, in multiplayer, is that your often times paying extra for units that don't perform nearly as well as comparable more specialized counterparts of other factions on top of them having lackluster lords and magic.
There’s a difference between a bit more bite, and the stats of white lions. If they made that change they would cost only 50 gold more than white lions despite having a really powerful ranged attack.
@@AytonGang Perhaps I should be a bit more specific: I don't want them to have the exact same stat line as white lions only for their melee attack and defense to be redistributed so that they have a bit more offensive potency in melee. I think they will still be pretty vulnerable to heavy cavalry and other fast moving disruptive units but they they could still generate some extra value even if they get caught in melee. I know its a bit out of the norm but I think fits the thematic design of streltsi and Kislev better. I don't think it would be overpowered. I mean what's the point of them having Armor piercing great weapons if they can't use them to good effect?
lmfao
Archaeon the cringe
Honestly if the Ice Witch hadnt been completely thrown away this was an easy W for Kislev. Absolutely catastrophic mistake to just let that happen by throwing the caster on the front line.