How Good Is Acrylic For Making Drums?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video I assemble a 'vistalite' type snare drum from a recently acquired acrylic snare drum shell (made by RCI Starlite) and discuss the attributes of acrylic as a drum shell material in the process. Of course there will playing (both 5" and 6.5" deep acrylic snare drums).
Come have some fun!!
0:00 Introduction
1:45 My history with acrylic snare drums
4:23 Attributes of acrylic (comparison to wood)
7:37 How do acrylic drums sound?
10:06 Amber 5" -- medium tuning
12:09 Amber 5" -- high tuning
13:43 Amber 5" -- low tuning
15:15 Blue 6.5" -- medium tuning
17:13 Blue 6.5" -- high tuning
19:18 Blue 6.5" -- low tuning
I have been playing a Tama Silver Star Clear Acrylic drum set for close to 10 years, and I'm always getting compliments on the sound and looks of my kit at gigs. I have owned a lot of different sets during my career, and I have to say the clear Tama's the most versatile and fun of all. They always sound great no matter what Music style I'm playing. Also compared to wood, the bearing edges on these Tama's are so perfect they rarely require turning, because normal use or transport will not loosen the heads. This kit is a gem, and worth every penny 🥁
Those shells were "Gold n times" and/or RCI starlight making shells for gold n times. High quality shells. Far superior to my 76 vistalite shells. They used a solvent to chemically "weld" the seams. Far superior to adhesives.
The acrylics stay in tune better when traveling as humidity has negligible impact on the shells 😁
I like them though I play a Sonor SClassix thin Scandinavian birch which to me has a similar loud punch with quick decay and slightly harsh Bonham sound.
I didn’t realize Tama was making Acrylic drums 10 years ago but I did play the clear Acrylic set at Guitar Center about 5 or 6 years ago and was surprised how amazing they sounded. I was also surprised at the amount of warmth had. This snare drum sounds amazing.
Fantastic! The deep dive into materials is awesome! Thank you. We missed you Joel. 🤓👍🏻
Thank you so much! It'd been a crazy month and half, but glad to be back!
I wish I had access to your presentations and/or knowledge growing up. It would have saved me so much money and time. But I'm so glad I found you in 2023!
Thank you! I'm glad you're hear!
@drumdotpizza hear haha, pun intended?
Sounds really great, Joel!
Man, I really do love the sound of this snare drum. 👏👏😃 Congrats from Brasil 🇧🇷
Such a informative video! So pleased to find this. Thanks for sharing your info with us!
Awesome playing! Great to hear these! I actually got an amber 14x7 shell a few months ago and im getting the hardware to finish it off! Thanks for making this stuff!
Great video! I’ve always been curious about those types of materials.
That is a beautiful sound!
Fantastic! Great information. Well done.
That is a stunning looking and sounding drum! Helps that you’re playing it beautifully of course.
This snare drum sounds awesome! Warmer and fatter than expected. All tunings sound 😮
Really nice sound on the Acrylic snare
I learned a tonne through this. Thanks!
Back in the late 70s early 80 I wanted an orange Vistalite Bonham type of kit but never got one. The one person that I knew back then that had a kit like that I'm assuming he didn't take very good care of them. They looked pretty well scratched up and beat up and therefore I lost interest in getting one. Oh well... Looks like you did a great job of building your own snare and it sounds good!!! Thanks for sharing your experience!!!
Thank you!
I actually discovered recently that the son of a buddy I grew up with has a Bonham style vistalite kit from the 70s. Totally original. Clear, not amber, but 26x14 kick, 14x10, 16x16 and 16x18 toms and a matching 5" snare (not a Supra, but still, original and matches the kit).
I'm TOTALLY gonna do a 'restore' video with that kit. So looking forward to playing some monster vistalites!!
@@drumdotpizza I'd love to see the restoration process and see and hear you play some Bonham grooves on it!!! Looking forward to seeing the video!!!
Ironically, I've only ever owned a vista kit. love the look of acrylics, loved my kit. I suppose with how easily you were able to switch out the shells, being afraid of them breaking isn't and excuse anymore. I've never owned a vista snare... never say never. after this video! Love the sounds you're getting with these. I wonna ask that blue beauty to prom! haha
Hugely instructive
Sounds great! Love the shirt!🔥🥁😎
excellent video!! 🙂
your drums always sound perfect!!!
Thank you!!!
I have a Sonor acrylic 6.5x14” SQ2 that’s my favorite. Great video thanks for sharing.
Sounds really good . Recently had the pleasure of playing a friend's acrylic kit and I was amazed . Especially the snare .
It's pretty shocking just how much depth of tone I get from this new 5" drum. Just used it on a session yesterday, and it sounded amazing. Fat backbeat for a country brushes/blasticks train feel it's just perfect! Acrylic drums have gotten a bad wrap for decades, but I think it's just because Ludwig's QC was questionable, particularly their edges (I've only had their snares, but none had good edges).
I love the sound of Acrylic!
Few years back a well known drum builder, who was late in getting me the drum i ordered-lent me a acrylic personal snare for a gig because i was throwing a hissy fit,not having a snare....anyway the 6x14,blue acrylic,die cast hoops and 30 puresound sounded incredible with bandmates and other drummers that night asking me...."is your new drum gonna sound that good?"so its more about head selection and bearing edge quality that really matters i am agreeing with your overall final word,love the unique and accurate shell material conversations you post here.And yes, Jeff Kirsch does build a amazing drum, no matter what you want, he has talent and takes his time to do shit right,even when his customers are impaitent jerks.
Always wondered about this, nice video. Thanks
I’ve never gotten into Vistalites,,,,, But I really love this video, and I’m learning a lot about them, you’re so amazing, I love your channel
Previously the only acrylic snare I ever thought of owning was one made by Fibes as I love the parallel action strainer.
@@robertdore9592 ohhhh I see,,,,, pretty cool,,,,, I don’t know too much about them
Sounds good Joel!
Yeah !! Very educational !! Thnx !
Very interesting! 👍
Man your drumming is top shelf! They both sound good, for looks I would choose the blue, for sound the orange!
Thanks so much! I"m digging the 'amber' ('orange' to you and me ;) drum for the last week or so. Just used it in a session and it was perfect!
Love your channel keep up the great work!
Beautiful
About the talking hey joel i enjoy you talking your very knowledgable .happy drumming great video.
Thank you! Now I know more about acrylic drums, and what they sound like too! Seem like they make a large footprint in the drum mix. That could of course be your studio and mixing, but that’s what I’m hearing.
Love this channel...
Thank you so much!
I own about 20 Vistalite snares. My original blue 5x14 and 6.5x14 blue reissue are ones I play often. I do like the look of the Imperial lugs on the 6.5. May have to order some for mine. Great video and I love your content.
Thanks so much! Yeah, I love the Imperial lugs. I have two ealiy Ludwig and Ludwig wood shell snare drums with Imperials on them. When Ludwig reintroduced the 'flat' version I knew I had to put them on a visty!
Good/Cool vid!
I pickup up that same little Pork Pie snare last year as well as my 1st(?) DW snare which also is an Acrylic.
The DW sounded awesome when first bought it from local Pawn shop,(W/original head so very little usage), but then once I started changing heads I sort of drifted away from what I was Really-digging! Played a private party last weekend and used that DW Acrylic with a brand new head and it went well but Seriously Appreciated this vid for future-reference!!...Thanks!
Another excellent video. I had a 14x5 that came with with my Vistalite kit 10 years ago. Couldn't get a sound out of it that competed with my other snares, and sold it. Didn't try low tuning though. No regrets. Sounds killer here. Interesting snare mic.
Granelli Audio Labs sells the 90 degree Shure SM57. I had used it about 15 years until it died. Great for tight spots.
@@goodtimejohnny8972 Ahh, yes, but have you used a Granelli modified Shure 545? That's what I'm using. Mine had the switch on it, which renders the Granelli knuckle unusable (the machining for the switch gets in the way), but I had a dead SM57, so took the bottom of it, put the 545's transformer in it (they are different transformers), and sanded the finish off the 57 portion, so it looks more like the 545. I also have a Granelli 57, but I prefer the 545. Sounds a bit more natural to my ear.
The Granelli knuckle is a great thing!!
No sir I haven't tried the Shure 545. I switched it out for a super cardioid pattern. I am currently using the Telefunken M80 shorty.
The shirt is AWSOME !!!!
My 78 vistalites have about a 1/16" error on the bearing edges at the seam. They still sound great, even with the little wrinkle in the head. Your videos are awesome Joel, I wish you continued success and growth of your channel.
My 76 vistalite edges were all over the place. Untunable. I gave up and got RCI starlight. Far superior in every way. To date: the best sounding 18". floor tom I have ever heard.
@@scottlowell493 I can't tune the 13" on mine, it's out of round. which is fine because I play 1 up 2 down. 14, 16, 18 with pinstripes makes it work.
I’ve only owned a Vistalite kit as an inheritance from my father. The only time I’ve ever played wood drums are from other peoples drum sets. I’ve never been really happy with the sound until getting a tune bot recently. It took a lot of the guesswork out of it and unlike wood, Vistalite’s keep their tuning with the various degrees of change in weather (pun intended). They don’t have that jazz high tuning sound I like so much, but I’m happy to own a kit people love to look at🥂
Ok, why does this guy have less than 5k subscribers? His content is better than most with 50k
Keep it up. Hope your channel grows quickly!
Exellent!! your way of explain every element involved in the sound of materials the size , tuning and even your performance , brilliant.. you should be part of the Toontrack Superior drums team for obtain better drums libraries, thank you very much for doing this for audio and drumming lovers.
I would love to be a part of something like that! Perhaps one day.
Thanks for being here and for commenting!
Most cant say anything more than what theyve already heard in regard to drums.i enjoy your vids and have seen em from time to time and i always like that you are your own brain. Wether its guitar or boats or guns,99% of ppl are gunna restate typical marketing hoopla and buzzwords instead of finding out themselves, thinking for themselves and experimenting before staying or changing coarse/thought patterns
Thank you for the encouragement! When I started this channel last year I wondered (worried?) that I might create some drama or get pushback by challenging some of the hype that I see repeated often, but I do think most of it is rational and demonstrable, so I just say like I've seen it. I appreciate you encouragement. I just want to help people get the gear that will be most satisfying for their preferences, and I guess I like talking about how stuff works (at least the stuff I love).
So glad you're here!
@@drumdotpizza keep challenging the accepted hype regurgitated by folks that have been marketed to. Especially when it's reputable.
Yea,you've got a great channel and your Def onto something. Your a pretty damn good player. You've got quite a bit of gear. Keep showing us what you've got, and the stories behind it. The stories are probably the most important part 👍
Never really had much interest in acrylic shells, until I recently become obsessed with the classic 70s Billy Cobham tom sound. He was Fibes guy through all those recording with Ken Scott manning the console.
Fibes have the same characteristics as this drum -- in fact a good friend of mine has a clear Fibes Cyrstallite kit.
Another life-long buddy of mine has a son who inherited his maternal grandfather's Ludwig clear vistalite kit.... straight up Bonham sizes: 26/14/16/18 with a matching 5" snare. I'm going to be doing a refresh of that kit for a video in the next few months, and I must admit I'm pretty pumped about it!!
Man... I need an acrylic kit of my own!!!
Great i love wood,i love acrylic ,great sound that you get and top playing. Thank you
I built a Pearl masters acrylic kit 20 years ago before they decided to reissue the classics from the 70’s. I stripped down a maple kit, wrapped them in clear plastic, marked all the holes, placed the clear plastic on the acrylic shells, marked locations for holes, drilled them out and then transferred all the hardware. It was time consuming but the end product was amazing. I sold them on eBay. Maybe someone watching this video has them.
My first kit was a '75 Ludwig Vistalite C-Spiral pattern. Toms and bass are nothing short of magnificent in the right context. Have never been able to achieve the crispness on the snare that you have, however.
You should add a Super Thanks button! Any time I get drum info that levels up my drumming, I always wanna throw the dude at least a few bucks as a thanks since they're doing all the hard work of making the video, and I just get all the benefits.
Also, my kingdom (or like a twenty) for the first person on TH-cam to do a good A/B comparison of drum heads on acrylic kits. If you're looking for a video idea for something on TH-cam that's missing, that one would be huge!
Thank you for the kind words and the suggestion! I'm actually going to be doing more on acrylic drums in the near future (just got a bass drum I'm messing with). I'm actually developing a mini course on drum head selection, so will definitely be doing some related videos, and I do love acrylic snares, so will try to include such a video for you!
Thanks for being here!!
@@drumdotpizza Sounds awesome, I'll definitely check it out when it's out!
I've only played acrylic drums once at a gig. I did like the sound but those things were heavy. Not fun for moving around. I'm liking the red snare, nice instrument!
I have the acrylic Pork Pie Piglite Amber 13x7 and it's got some serious crack when cranked high. It actually sounds similar to the legendary BB.
According to an interview I saw somewhere on TH-cam. Keltner used an acrylic snare when he recorded Josie (Steely Dan). Now recording and live are obviously not the same but it sounded pretty good. Might have also had to do with Keltner's talent :-).
I don't own any acrylic drums, but after watching this video... who knows!? Thanks, Joel.
I've never been a fan of the sound. They look awesome, great for high volume music.
True... they are LOUD!
Hitting that acrylic shell with his hand sounds like a decent kick sound lol
I have the Pearl acrylics, called Crystal Beats, and they sound incredible and are easy to maintain tune. But they are louder than other materials, so they need a two-ply oil-filled head for sure, which makes the tone round and punchy, just perfect. But the snare, which is a "floating" shell with no lug penetrations, is REALLY loud. I have to muffle the crap out of it.
Great video!! I think I’m gonna sell my 2016 vistalites, I can prolly get 2G and I’m gonna get a sonor vintage series kit, acrylic drums are heavy to lug out to gigs lol.
Most vintage Sonor kits are pretty heavy too! They made some of the most dense drums ever during the 1980s, so if you want something easier to carry around choose carefully!
@@drumdotpizza I’d love a 70s Sonor kit! Ala Phill Rudd, I was talking about Sonors relatively new vintage series drums that hit the market 6/7 years ago, 9 ply beech, 45’ bearing edges, definitely lighter then my Vistalites, though I’d love to have both, but in this economy lol it’s tough, gotta pick my toys.
It largely depends on the acrylic formulation. Vintage Vistalites sound more harsh than later reissues using Sterling Plastics shells. RCI sounds different still. One of the biggest issues with acrylic is that it is inherently fragile.
Acrylic drums have always been a percussive anomaly, for years we were told the best drums were wooden, be they maple , birch, mahogany, bubinga and everything in-between, with various ply shells, cross/ straight laminations, factory matched timbres.....and then we hsve the most beautifully sounding drums made from a piece of plastic! The mind boggles.
Sounds really good 👍👍 Is that a DW Woofer in the background ? Could you please do a video about using 2 bass drums infront of each other ?
Well, here's an opportunity to do something with that old cracked Supra. =^-^=
That works really well with a low tuning because it doesn’t have all the weird dissonant overtones that usually come with it.
Another great video man! I really Dig the sound from that 5 in, the deeper one is nice but daaaang that 5!! Also, side note did you change your bass microphone or process? The bass sounds beautifully fat and round in this.
Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm with you on the snare... I think I'm digging the performance of the amber 5" over the blue at the moment.
As for the kick drum, I used a Beta 52 just inside the hole pointed fairly straight at the beater (but by the resonant head, not far inside the drum) and a custom condenser mic on the outside, about 2" off the largest surface area of the resonant head. The outside mic WAS an MXL 920 at first, but upgraded the circuit (you can find DIY info on improving most Chinese mics that share the Schoeps circuit design) and put a capsule from a Sony C-500 in it. C-500 is a fairly rare, little known mic that is stellar on outside of kick drum. The circuit isn't really serviceable these days, so when they die they often get tossed (well... ten years ago anyway). I found a guy who had salvaged a couple of capsules from a couple of C-500s and bought them from him to modify a pair of these MXL mics. I used one in front of the kick and another over the top of the kick as a sort of 'kit' mic, pointed down at the kick's shell, away from the ride cymbal. Nice spot to compress and round off with eq and blend in for some cohesion to the overall drum sound.
I'm not married to any particular mics though, that's just what I used on this drum (a late 70s (6-ply) Ludwig 22x14, btw, with single ply heads). Just a good dynamic with solid LF response inside the kick and a large diaphragm condenser out front.
Not my next video, but the one after that will be my approach to tuning 22" and smaller kick drums for general use. I did a kick tuning video a couple months back, but that was a 24" which, in all honesty, is a bit trickier to dial in as the real estate of a 24 is surprisingly greater than a 22 and needs more tension to get it right (but then it's my favorite size for kick). I've been asked by several to cover tuning for smaller diameter kick drums, so that's coming up week after next. Keep a watch out for that if you're interested.
Thanks for being here!!
Acrylic, like most polymers, needs much more energy to start vibrating than wood or metal. So it behaves like an even denser, more massive shell than it is, and as you mentioned in another video, shell effective mass has a direct correlation with how much fundamental vs. harmonics you get from it.
As a second effect, polymers like acrylic are viscoelastic, so they lose much more of the vibration energy as heat rather than sound. They have a high damping ratio, and the damping is a factor of frequency (so, higher the frequency, more damping).
Do you have any recommended books/papers which go into more depth on acoustic properties of polymers? I've been experimenting with 3d printed drum shells and have tried quite a few different materials but would appreciate better ways to optimize the material properties.
@@neilxpeart I'll see if I can dig up some literature. My knowledge is from working with a product designer, he was concerned with optimizing (i.e. minimizing) noise output from consumer goods.
I'll get in touch with him.
That fits right with my experience!! Sounds like it would be a weird sound, but it's really great for thick backbeats, much thicker/fatter than one might think from a 5" drum!
@@neilxpeart LOVE YOUR NAME!!!
Okay, so the question... no, I've never actually read a book about plastics/polymers (well... a few things online from various manufacturers... data sheets and such, but nothing I'm particularly expert on). My perception of acrylic (plastic) drums has only come from experiencing different ones over the years.
BTW, I'm VERY interested in what you come up with shell wise if you're doing 3D printing. Would love to see an example if you come up with something you're excited about!!! I actually have a mint example of the plastic shelled Ludwig 'Combo" (mine is labeled "Educator") snare drum with the plastic lugs from around 1980. I actually dig it, a lot, though if I was to play it often I would have to swap the lugs for botties or Imperials (which use the same hole pattern as the original plastic Combo lugs). Those lugs won't be able to handle any tension, so I've only played it at lower tunings, but I dig what it's doing.... unique, abrupt and BIG sounding. Not sure what the material is (seems like ABS), but I'm pretty sure it's not acrylic. Acrylic is heavier than this shell, and this one is more flexible still, it appears. Wouldn't be surprised if it was ABS as Ludwig as also making ABS (I believe) UFO injection molded snare drum cases at the time. ABS melts lower than acrylic and is better for injection molding... The combo drum shell seems like such a product,
If you succeed in making a plastic snare shell with 3D printing and ever want anyone to build a quality drum with it for thorough testing, please consider me! ;)
@@drumdotpizza I've made a few shells out of plastic + other additives like carbon fiber, bronze, iron, etc. I've had some pretty good success with iron, bronze, the carbon fiber is more difficult. I've also tried a few polymers like nylon, polycarbonate (my favorite), PLA, PETG. Mostly off the shelf stuff. Materials like PLA, and polycarbonate resonate incredibly well whereas something like ABS is pretty poor imo.
The drums I've made so far are all using printed lugs as well (keeps cost down), only bummer with the shell is that one needs a really large format printer. I made one specifically for this purpose. Injection molding would be slick, but for non-commercial applications it just isn't viable. I'll be posting some videos when I print some more shells to accompany my research results.
Do you have a video on applying the Ludwig badges??? Would love to learn.
I liked the 6.5 a lot better.
New subscriber here!!! Love the science behind the drums and what makes them sound certain ways with different materials and such.
QUESTION : lets say you have two identical acrylic snares, but ones is Ludwig and the other let’s say spaun/custom drum. Would they sound the same if they are both the same dimension, same hardware, same heads?? I’m asking because your snares in this video sound WAYY better than the spaun acrylic snares I’ve been looking at sound. Is there a reason for this bedsides poor tuning?
Thank you for the kind remarks! The snares in this video are RCI shells machined by RCI (including very nice edges). They are fitted with Ludwig hardware, but they tune way better than any original Ludwig vistalite snare I have ever played (I believe that is due to the edges... edges on the old Ludwigs were pretty questionable in my exposure to them). I don't know who makes acrylic shells for Spaun or who does the edges/how good the edges are, but this may have something to do with it. Otherwise might be tuning? I really couldn't say authoritatively without checking out the drum in person, I'm sorry. I hope this is helpful though.
Thanks again for being here!
How about a comparison video of all your snare drums?
What do you think of the old school acrylic shells that use acrylic tabs at the seams? Like pork pies compared to rci shells.
Nice! The thing i'm curious about is what cymbals are these specificcaly?
Ride is A Zildjian 21" Sweet Ride, crashes are 20" Paiste Giant Beat Multipurpose (thin) to my left and 18" K Zildjian Sweet Crash to my right. Hi-hats are 1980s era Meinl Profile Volcanic Rock Hi-Hats (B8 bronze, no less!!). I love them all. I'm pretty eclectic with cymbals... got a bit of everything new and vintage collected over decades, and I'm always changing things around.
Thanks for the question and for being here!!
@DrumDotPizza
I just happen to have a PorkPie piglite in clear with black hardware 6x14.
Might you want to by it?
That 6,5 in low tuning was sweet!
How do you think an acrylic drum would sound with round (baseball bat) bearing edges?
I work with a lot of Acrylic but never made a drum kit I have a Pearl kit that got damaged in my Basement Studio the sub pump stopped working and my kit was in 10 inches of Water
Acrylic would be best to go with I think at least they will not get destroyed in water
OUCH!! That makes me hurt just thinking about... so sorry to hear about that! Yes, acrylic would keep losses like that from happening.
RCI starlight uses a solvent to chemically weld the seam. FAR superior to vistalite adhesives, which often disbonded. It is likely that the RCI shell would break before the seam does. The snare drum is the only drum I never cared for in acrylic. My RCI starlight floor tom (18x18). was the best sounding and playing floor tom I've heard to this day. It focused like a 16". but had a gong drum output. The secret is also, dot heads weren't used. Either vintage emperors or ec2.
I found the Snare sizes, i think I may get one, I wonder if they could drill for Acrolite hardware, I should be able to use the same lugs for a 6in I think I would just habe to get longer lugs
Acrolite hardware would fit, I believe! Essentially the same, but just ask them to 8 lugs instead of 10. The acrylic shell won't have a bead around the center, but I think the hole patter is the same, so the lugs would still attach, or you could simply buy the 'flat' bowtie/classic lug instead. Same strainer, butt, muffler and badge though.
I love 8 lug drums, and the Acrolite is one my absolute favs.
@@drumdotpizzathanks for this video because I didn't know this existed or was even affordable 😀. Have a blessed day 👊
Nice drumming! What is your headphones setup? I need to do something about my ear protection. New sub here. Cheers!
I use Vic Firth headphones, 2nd gen. They now make a bluetooth version as well, though I haven't bought those yet (they're red). The 1st gen had thick wire that was a bit cumbersome and they often failed if the wire got tugged at all. Frequency response lacked lows too, but they had the cancellation of gun muffs, so that was cool. 2nd gen has same cancellation, feel more comfortable to me and sound much better. More flexible cable too.
Protect those ears! (drums are LOUD!)
@@drumdotpizza- thanks much, cheers!
What is that crash cymbal closest to your hi-hats? I love it!
Yeah man it's been on my mind all day trying to place it. @@toddmckenzie0420
20" Paiste Giant Beat Multipurpose model (THIN version). Yes, I am generally not a B8 bronze aficionado, but I love the Giant Beat Multipurpose cymbals. I have both 18 and 20 inch versions (my 18 is not the 'THIN' version). Clean but also warm with beautiful spread and shimmer. They record better than the popular, earthy, hand hammered cast cymbals so many people use these days.
As a recording engineer I like cymbals that will sit in a mix without having to be EQ'd much.... all the earthy, dark cymbals that have become so popular get lost in a pop/rock mix, buried by electric guitars and keyboard pads, etc. Gotta brighten them with EQ, but then you're brightening all the leakage of the rest of the kit too, so creating more problems. I just like brighter, but rich and organic cymbals that speak well without being harsh. The Giant Beats are great for that when used as crashes.
The other crash is an 18" K Zildjian Sweet Crash... I think they actually go well together on the same kit, though one might not think so without auditioning them.
Thanks for being here!
Thank you so much for the response! I'm also a big fan of the giant beat and K Sweet crashes. I have been thinking about combining both lately, and you just helped me make up my mind! I was going to do a 19" K Sweet with an 18" Giant Beat.@@drumdotpizza
When changing the tuning from high to low, did you retune only the top head or both bottom and top heads?
How do carbon fiber shells compare?
Have you ever gotten a good recording with a 15” snare? I bought a 15x8 metal drum out of curiosity but it has almost no crack and rings kind of like a frame drum. It sounds insanely boxy when close micing it. Best I’ve gotten so far with eq and moving the mic up a little higher is a garage-y sound with very little presence. Is this why 15” snares are so uncommon?
I rebuilt a 1950s WFL snare for a friend that was, IIRC, 15x7. School Auditorium model, or something like that. Mahogany/poplar shell with maple re-rings in clear coat finish. I never recorded with it, but I enjoyed playing once I was done with it. I current have on my shelf of future builds a 15x7 late 70s Ludwig 6-ply shell (cut from a 15x12 marching snare) that I am bringing back into round (slightly oval) and will build it out once it's round. I'm really looking forward to playing that one.
Ah shit. I need one.
Fun fact....the most notoriously bad sounding snare drum recorded seems to be the snare drum from Metallica's 'St Anger'...which happened to be a Ludwig vistalite snare drum. (It wasn't the snares fault though...)
Do you or anyone else have any thoughts or experience with cracking? I don't plan and never overtighten my drums, but just curious. I would think, given the flexibility of the acrylic, especially on a seamless shell, cracking would be less of an issue than on a seamed wood ply shell??
I've had original Ludwig visualities crack. Lots of little spider cracks around the holes for mounting lugs, etc. Solved those with Weld On. Did have a white vistalite snare break top to bottom along the seam. Fixed that with cyanoacrylate. I don't know how much these RCI shells will crack, but it's always a good idea to pull a lug every year or so (more often perhaps if you play them constantly) and see what condition the holes are in.
@@drumdotpizza Thank you.
Is that an OG 1980 Tama bell brass sitting on your snare rack?
That is a 1980 Bell Brass clone made for me by Cade at Savage Drums. He knows cast bronze shells and has all the Tama specs!! I sent him hardware (taken from a donor steel shell Mastercraft), and he made/machined/finished the shell accordingly.
There's a story behind my getting that drum, and I plan on making a video about it before too long. It's RIDICULOUS how good it sounds!
Fun fact: the much hated St. Anger snare sound from Metallica is an old Vistalite. How they made it sound like that, I have no idea (the snares ARE actually engaged but not very audible).
I actually love the St. Anger snare sound. I think it makes the album. Am I the only crazy drummer on earth who digs it?
@@humbledrummer777 no I'm totally with you. I love the sound on the whole album.
But I hate the songs haha
@@Leotardoification yeah not everyone likes the songs. I do when I wanna hear something different from them and then I put it away for a while LoL.
What was the cost of one of these drums once (or if you were to) buy all hardware, and badge etc (minus heads/snares), compared to just buying a new Ludwig Vistalite these days? Also do you know how accurate the build, quality, and bearing edges are to a new Ludwig? I just say new because not sure if they've changed anything since the vintage ones spec wise.
New Visualities (Ludwig built) are different than the old. Not sure who supplies the shells to Ludwig for the Vistys since 2001, but Cadillac Motors made the shells for the original visualities, believe it or not! The new ones are a piece of acrylic (matching the shell color) glued over the interior seam for support (same as Pork Pies acrylic shells, so may be the same manufacturer). RCI makes their own shells with no such overlapping/reinforcing piece at the seam. Original Ludwig vistys had a 'V' shape seam (when viewed from the interior) filled with cyanoacrylate (super glue, basically) which would often give over time... splits were not uncommon, especially now that they are 45 ish years old.
As for cost, the RCI shell, purchased through their eBay listing is $159 for 5" and $169 for 6.5", currently. You can use new or used bowtie lugs (or new, flat Imperial lugs) for around $10 each (more like $12-15 each if new), the P-85 is close to $50 now (honestly, if I was buying a new strainer I would grab the universal model strainer/butt combo from INDe drum -- my FAVORITE strainer, and a retrofit for Ludwig, so no new holes needed. You'll pay that much for a Ludwig new, so I'd go for the INDe). Mufflers were around $30 last I checked (couple years maybe?) and you can get badge new or used for anywhere from $15-40 I'd say. Plus 10-lug hoops, heads and snare wires. I'm a snappy snare wire guy (not a huge fan of the thicker gauge Puresound snare wires... the standard Tama types from Worldmax or Tama, 20 strand, are excellent. Responsive and articulate. So what's that all added up..... $400-$500 depending on new/used bits, whether you incorporate a muffler and badge (not necessary for a good player, though I'm a fan of internal mufflers).
BTW, when it comes to hoops I actually dig 1.6mm hoops over 2.3mm. I have 2.3 on this amber drum (it's what I had on the shelf), but I find I can be more creative with alternate tunings with the thinner gauge 1.6mm, and the overall tone is a bit more vintage in a good way.
Thanks for your comments and questions!!
@@drumdotpizza Hey thanks so much for your in depth response, that's awesome. Sounds like the RCI would be a good way to go.
If you don't mind I have one more question. I'm not sure if I mentioned it to you before, but I have a 72 Supraphonic 14x5, and I'm having some pretty big issues when it comes to tuning the reso side. The Batter is fine.
I know other things besides the drum come into play, but I've tried multiple hoops/heads, and the lugs seem fine, I've greased them, and they seem good. So I'm just at a point where I'm pulling my hair out. Basically I've got it to a point where the tension on the reso head is actually pretty even, though it took me a lot of tweaking, but the actual tension on the lugs is whats weird. Half of them are like 3-5 turns in, and for the most part the other half are like 1 turn away from completely being slipped out, but the tension on the head is even, besides from there always being 2 lugs(head tension) that just seem like it's always a hair lower.
Do you have any advice/ideas, and also know if there's people out there that can fix metal drums like these that are slightly out of round? When I have it on a flat surface there's like a tiny bit of rocking in one spot, maybe 1-1.5mm, and when I measure from the outside bearing edge to the outside bearing edge ( across Lug to Lug) its definitely off like about a mm give or take on some of them.
The wood shell doesn’t compress because the plies are laminated together with opposing grain patterns for strength if all the plies were glued together with the exact grain pattern in the exact direction you would be able to compress it somewhat easier
What ride cymbal are you playing?
21" A Zildjian Sweet Ride. My son has the same model, but his is brighter than mine. Mine is deep in pitch... actually reminds me of the old A Zildjian Deep Ride from late 70s (yes, I'm old enough to remember those), though the profile isn't a flat. Records quite well, though, and sounds richer than others I have played. I got lucky with it!
I don't see snare shells on their site
Search "RCI Vistalite Snare Shell" on eBay, and you'll find listings for both 5" and 6.5" versions, drilled exactly as mine. Enjoy!!
Wow did that ever flex! Got me scared that the acrylic was gonna crack
Yeah, I was a bit worried too, though I have heard very good things about the strength of RCI's seams. They apparently fuse the acrylic ends together, so while it is still a visual seam it is actually bonded acrylic, making the seam extremely strong. Quite a departure from the original "V" seam with cyanoacrylate of the original vistys... I would NEVER try that with an original visty.
I feel like acrylic dampen themselves much more. Which would be good for many things. Ive got a birch kit i play and ive got them dampened up with some tape and sticky hands lol they sound great to my ear with the extra dampening. But they look ugly with tape all over them. But i could fix that much cleaner. Its a middle ground i look for
You use sticky hands too??!! I bought a bag of those at a toy store several years back for pennies on the dollar of what Moon Gel cost and have used them ever since. I actually don't use that style of muffling much myself (I prefer simply folds of gaff tape, generally), but so funny that someone else uses sticky hands!!!
@@drumdotpizza YEEES !!! Hahaha 🤣 Wow I myself haven't came across anyone who has found this drum "hack" 😂 Moon gels are so overpriced relative to what they are, that Id feel like I got robbed for buying some. I saw sticky hands at Walmart in the party aisle, and It just hit me ! Plus you can use them to slap other players across the room when they're not keeping on beat 😂 This is great.
Do you think these shells would pair nicely with die-cast hoops? Say Tama style.
Absolutely! I love the vibe acrylic shells give alternate tunings, however (typically reducing tension on the two lugs closest to me by 1/4-1/2 turn), so I usually go with flanged hoops as die cast are too rigid to allow for such tunings.
If you're a die-cast lover though, absolutely. Great shells!
That is way too much bongggg, do moon gels help or do you have to put muffling on the drum body itself?
Acrylic sounds fine live but it’s a bit unruly to record, especially compared to maple or birch.
I wish I could send you for comparison a composite drum I once built. It is a thin shell 13x5,75 made of a thousand popsicle sticks and resin. The shell without hardware was very flexible. It was somewhat compared to acrylic snares when talking about it because there was nothing even close to similarity to begin with. The drum ended up being surprisingly loud with a very strong fundamental so in that sence the hypotheses were right.
There's several demo-samples in my channel videos if interested. This one with english caps:
th-cam.com/video/zjxQT91XHwk/w-d-xo.html
*_BLOVIATING??_* Bruh 🤯🤯🤯 🤣🤣👍👍🏽👍🏻
To me, the 6.5 inch snare sounds much better.
Higher tuning
it's a matter of damping Joel
St. Anger snare drum is acrylic shell lol