I don’t understand why some people get so angry and triggered that DW tells you what the pitch of the shell is. You can tune whatever pitch you like. DW simply tells you the resonant frequency of the shell and you decide if you want to use it or not. It’s a simple matter of physics. Every object has its’ own resonant frequency and if you expose that object to a matching frequency it will cause that object to start vibrating on its’ own. So if you tune the head pitch to match the shell, you will get the most active and full vibration out of the shell. If hou like that, then great! If you don’t, ALSO great! Use it or don’t. You do you.
A very accurate, concise response to something like this. I've always loved DW. But I also, likewise like as much any quality, especially handmade and custom, drums, basses, guitars, etc. 🙂
Amd then you feel like you're doing something wrong by ignoring that big C# or whatever it is that they've taken the time to print inside the shell. If any other company suggested doing something with their product, you'd probably abide by it. I personally think the pitch of the shell thing is a total nonsense. It might sound somewhat like a G when struck with a mallet, but guess what? You're not going to be striking your drum shells with mallets and if if you do, they're just going to go "tunk" once you put all those lugs and mounting hardware on it. And then your going to squash some heads on it with metal hoops. It might be just some extra information, but it's useless, unnecessary information.
alan duncan thank you for summing up hardware: that's absolutely a Problem - as far as I'm aware those pitches are taken from the bare shell of those drums (probably with the drillings already done - wouldnt make sense any other way). The Problem that I have with that is, that as soon as the lugs are added to the drum there is additional weight added, which means that through added mass the resonance and pitch of the drum shifts (works the same way on drums as it works in object resonances on architecture), which totally trivializes the measured pitch of the bare shell. You might be tempted to tune to that note, but it surely does not get you closer on matching the actual resonance of the drum with installed hardware, which makes the bare shell tone as random of a pitch to choose, as any other. I think it is misleading to add that information to those shells and does not aid you in finding the right tone with your drums. That being said, I still understand, why people might find dw drums appealing and I do so too, to some degree, just not for this particular feature.
Except they don't just slap a sticker on without any influencing, in their videos they go on and on about how important the shell note is and list all the "benefits" of it, which is bullshit because i've yet to hear a "properly tuned" DW kit sound better than it being tuned by ear, in fact I would argue that tuning the shells to their spec makes it sound much worse than almost any alternative tuning.
@ContextofSalad58 I was told that despite being with Pearl at the time, Chad Smith used a Gretsch snare to record BSSM. Don't know the truth, but it's an interesting rumour to start if wrong.
In the mix it sounds amazing. That's what matters. How a kit sounds all by itself means nothing if it sounds bad with the whole song. That snare was PERFECT.
Somebody who gets it!!! Really that's what matters with any instrument. How does it sound with the band? I remember trying to get this point across to so many bass players through the years. A lot of bass tones sound amazing on their own but, they don't work with the band. You don't know until you hear everything together.
Dude, I loved the snare tone and tune. The rack toms sounded great. I like your previous tuning on the floor. I couldn’t tell how the kick sounded. Thanks for posting.
The way John Good recommends to tune drums is to tension the bottom head to the pitch of the shell. Then tune the top head somewhere between a half step to a minor third above the pitch of the bottom head. I tried it on my DW Jazz kit (I did a whole step above the bottom). The entire kit sounded great. 12, 13, 14, 16, 24. People might not know that John was a drum tech who toured with some of the best drummers with the biggest artists of that era. He certainly was in the trenches. He has a lot of real world experience with this. I also LOVE the True Pitch 50 tension rods. When you’re dialing in precise pitches, it makes it much easier. They also hold the tension better than regular rods. I use a drill bit anyway so there was no aggravation of it taking a long time to thread them by hand. The best thing about all of this is that it gets people thinking and experimenting with tuning, which is a skill that develops over time.
@@jamesdevine02 No I’m not. People just want to get straight to the point. It takes two seconds for uploader to do this but they choose not to force us to watch the whole video
As a drummer, recording engineer, and live sound engineer I've been fortunate to work with some amazing drummers and drum techs. It has been a standard practice to tune drums to the fundamental, or alternatively to intervals of, the shells resonant frequency (or pitch) by drum techs and engineers in professional recording studios and touring applications for decades because it eliminates dissonant overtones (wonky, pitchy, ringing), and reduces the need for dampening that constricts the tone, resonance, and sustain of the drum. DW started to measure the resonant frequency of each shell and print it on the label of each individual drum in it's kits at the request of professional studio drummers and drum techs as a courtesy and a time saver. Before DE started to do this (and currently for all of the manufacturer kits that still don't) it was/is a fairly time consuming task for drum techs to do themselves each time they are working with a new kit. It's not always required, since some drum sounds are meant to have minimal sustain and resonance. However for certain styles of music the drum sound demands a rich, open tone with excellent sustain and minimal, or no, dampening and tuning the top and bottom heads to the shells fundamental (or an interval of it's fundamental) is the way to go in professional applications. Drummers who don't understand this usually fall into the amateur catagory, with little or no real professional experience working in the studio, or live with a professional tech and/or engineer.
@@passtheparcel2007 He didn’t say it wasn’t professional to tune them differently, he said it wasn’t professional to not know how it works. Personally I hate that particular drum sound, and I hate that techs delivering kits to a session or a gig tune them that way. The most important thing is to find a neutral pitch that does not exite or dip too much with the room. People tuning their toms to the frquency that goes the most BOOOM in the room are the ones ending up with over-eqed and wimpy sounding drums on the record or in the room on a gig. (Sound eng. with a degree, 200+ albums, hundreds and hundreds of FOH gigs)
Hey David. John Good has been on the record multiple times about this. The note printed on the inside of the shell is what you tune the bottom head to. You can then do whatever you want with the batter head afterwards
@@JakeMartinWallace Check out Sounds Like A Drum on yt, lots of videos experimenting on tuning, what happens with intervals between heads, dampening, everything drum nerdy
I'm listening on my phone speaker, so judge this content accordingly. But to me, your drums cut through the mix really nicely and suit the style of music really well. It is a little on the high side, but for big band music, that's what you want. I love the snare, but would reach for a moon gel to dampen the ringing. It's more style dependant than what is "right"
True! And sorry to be so nit-picky but what actually John Good recommends for the batter head is that you can go as far as a minor third sharper on the batter head relatively to the bottom head/shell note (in case that you find that you want the sound of the drum to pitch bend and fall after you hit it). You can see that here: th-cam.com/video/yl9wgXSfxew/w-d-xo.html
I have to say that the mix sounded amazing. Hearing them separately not so much, some kind of magic happened there. I'm actually pretty impressed, like everything had its own space....
I agree. I had almost exactly the same opinions as rdr on this -- the rack toms sounded GREAT, the floor tom was a little .. ehhh, and the snare was tighter than I like. But, it _really_ worked in that mix. Although, it's hard to say whether that was because of THE tuning, or just _good_ tuning (and good playing, and good micing, mixing, processing, etc.)
I’d say it’s a combination of a really good mix and also a great player who adjusted to how the drums “want” to be played. Drums can sound super wonky in isolation, but when you are playing in the context of the entire kit, especially with a backing track, sometimes that wonkiness actually helps the drums to carve out their own space in the mix. In that same regard, you wouldn’t want to take a kit that sounds like that and play with a really loose, wide open sort of feel because it would feel flat. He recognized the tightness and short decay that the tuning was giving him and played in a way that made it feel right. Being able to recognize what the song is calling for is part of what separates a good musician from a great one, in my opinion.
@@ZacharyWThomas Exactly. You can make the biggest guitar sound on earth, but it will pretty much only be usable in solos. For everything else, the engineer will at the very minimum chop off the high and low end of that guitar to make it sit in the mix. Most sounds in a professional music production are actually surprisingly small when soloed, but they are engineered to fit with the rest of the elements like a puzzle piece. That's what makes a mix sound huge and clean at the same time.
From a viewer perspective that tuning was awesome. Especially the way they sit in the mix. I know from experience that it always sounds and feels different behind the kit. I play DWs and love the fact that they're consistent and the hardware is always going to lock my positioning in. For most of us gigging drummers, those are the most important aspects. And you need to feel comfortable with the sound you produce. My taste is all over the place, so playing a drum set that's not in tune really doesn't bug me like it use to. As long as the sound in the house is good, then I'm happy. Funny how when you listen to a drum set that sounds godlike in the audience, sounds like crap when your playing them. Such was the case at my church. I'm not sure how they produced such a massive sound in the foh, yet behind the kit, it sounded like cardboard boxes taped together! Hope you get to do the Sonors... I love watching your channel!
"funny how when you hear a drum set from the audience it sounds godlike, but sounds like crap when you're behind it playing it." May not be an exact quote, but I'm lazy and not gonna double-check. Another one, something about consistency and hardware being solid and locked down is important to us. Yes, and yes
That drumset that sounds good like out front probably sounds like cardboard that vaguely resembles a note but decays so quickly you can't really tell from behind. Out front, John Bonham lmao. Mine sound that way, after a trip through sd3 on its way to the mix that is lol
About 3 years ago during my freshman year of high school I got to go on a field trip to the DW factory in Oxnard California and it was definitely an impressive facility and I was lucky enough to get to play some incredible drum set’s. Over all that was a great experience and is know a great memory!
I was discussing with a DW rep on the phone this very thing a while back. What he pointed out was that these shells are measured for their "note" when they're blanks. They're then drilled, finished (FinishPly or lacquer), then the hardware is mounted. All those steps change the fundamental note. He couldn't really say why except that's it's a cool feature John Good came up with, but doesn't really reflect the pitch of the final product.
@@jimnasium452 Tuning the drum to match the resonant frequency, or a simple ratio of it, will produce a different tone than when tuning arbitrarily since the shell will vibrate more naturally. Whether one is better than the other is all down to personal preference though.
Rdavid, yes let's see you playing in live venues with bands. I know you're an accomplished drummer too. As for DW set I've never owned one but I have been to their factory in Oxnard for business several times. They are the nicest, most professional group and build very high quality equipment. And their "candy shop" room with lots of different kits and drums to try out is like heaven for drummers! Maybe someday I'll be able to afford a DW kit. For now I'll just stick with my old 30 year old Premier set.
The point of DW Timbre matching is to give separation between your toms. I had a Pearl masters kit with a 13" rack tom and a 14" floor tom that were practically the same pitch, which made it a nightmare to tune. I hated that 14" floor tom. Pearl has this problem a lot as they like to make the shells on the larger drums thicker which actually increases the pitch. "Timbre matching" is just a marketing term, other companies do this to ensure separation between the drums. You can tune the drums wherever you want to it doesn't matter. I've never tuned my DW's to the shell note.
My drummer has a Tama Starclassic(?) kit, I have no idea the model but it's got that, I think the sizes are 10-12 rack, 14-16 floor, he added the 16, that did not come with the kit. But getting that 14inch floor tom to sound good at all was a massive challenge, and then to get it to play nice with other drums while sounding good was virtually impossible. I now have a different drummer, he uses a Tama Granstar kit from 1989 (identical to the one Lars used on Metallica's Black Album tour, but in a faded pink instead of white and black, it looks SICK) but anyway, he has 12-13 rack, 16-18 floor. And Basically you tune that 18 just above finger tight to get rid of that "motorcycle" sort of growl heads give you when they're too lose, and then tun the 16 a little higher than you normally would, and that is MONEY right there. Something about the 14 size floor tom just I could never get to work right. Full disclosure: I'm not a drummer although I can play enough to fake my way through easy songs. But I am a bandleader and sound guy, and have been for almost 15 years, and I'm also a perfectionist never-satisfied type so I always just say to my drummers, "Can I tune your drums for you? I've gotten good at it by now and I know what I like and what works and doesn't in a live setting." And my drummers are almost always like, "Yeah sure man go nuts, I fucking HATE tuning drums if you make em sound good for me I'll whack em for ya." And it works well for all parties involved lol.
When I played drums through the mid-1980s to 90s I never saw a 14" floor tom, but a 14" rack tom was common. If it was harder music the toms would start at the larger sizes and be deeper in length too. All metal drummers needed to match the look and had big toms on the double bass kits.
@@djjazzyjeff1232 same with me… I call myself the lead bassist but I’m the sound guy, I swap out on rythm and lead guitar, drum on some songs especially the ones I write, play keys/synth, woodwinds, mandolin, slide guitar setar and sing. I started on guitar and am most comfortable with strings. I just tune drums to what sounds best to my ears. I have a tuner that I don’t even use. And have gotten specific tightness numbers to do from drum techs. They never work out on our 74 ludwig kit though with Reno empoerors. I know nothing about drums but when I’m done tuning they always sound better than when any of my drummers have tuned. Just by ear, just by feel. No one else does it so I do it. I’m also a perfectionist and I have pitch perfect hearing. Well more than pitch perfect. Overtones, undertones everything I here. And then I see it and I’ve to work with it in Logic Pro using the presonus 24R. Check out the presonus 24R!
I've had a set of DWs for 20 years. I ended up tuning the batter head to the note stamped in the shell, The reso side is a major 3rd above the batter. This has worked well for me.
I love a good hi tuned snare. That Ludwig piccolo you did a video on way back when (the dumpster snare) blew my mind the first time I heard it. Dream snare sound.
Dude went from being decent at drums but having great videos to being an AMAZING drummer with top notch content. You sound soooo good man. And so do the drums ofc
I have to say, the sound after the tuning was freaking unreal. That's the best drum set I've ever heard, much better than before you tuned them IMO and I strongly disagree with your findings, however, very nice playing!
Interesting. I'm not a drummer, but , man, I thought that snare sounded like hot garbage. OK, that's exaggerating it, but I just did not like the sound of it, and was relieved to learn neither did the drummer.
Hearing the kit for the first time...I can say for me that the kit sat just perfect in the mix...DW seems like they have their heads really into the kit...Giving you the shell frequency is a huge advantage if you use it or not is your choice...But for me the tuned kit sounded very natural ...Thank you for the hard work.
You can do this with any kit. When I was in college I took a science of acoustics class and did this for a class project. I brought a tom, a keyboard, and an amp to class. Took the hardware off, and tapped the shell with a mallet until I matched the pitch by ear, used the keyboard to figure out it was an "e". Then I put the hardware back and tuned the batter to the 'e' note and demonstrated resonance by carefully tuning the head and droning an e note through the amp until the drum started singing much more loudly. The entire system (head, shell) was resonating an e note along with the keyboard. After that, I said I had read in a magazine to tune the bottom head a fifth above and I said I'd never tried it so I tuned it to a 'b' and had the class comment on if they liked the sound. My teacher was impressed (I got an A). As far as how to tune your kit, it doesn't matter how you do it but at least it's good to understand the intent behind matching heads to certain pitches. At least educate yourself a little before you stray into your own sound.
I do have perfect pitch and after trying to tune my low-end drums to notes that make sense with eachother and with the drums themeselves, I would absolutely appreciate having drums that clearly sound in a note and are labeled. The harmonics getting in eachother's way meant I had to listen to multiple notes at once and figure out which was the one I was looking for. That said, they picked some weird pitches to target when crafting them, a triad or straight fouths/ fifths are easier to throw around than a maj7 chord
Yoooo I’m getting some starclassic maples soon, what do you reccomend tuning for an overall tuning. I like a high, not too resonant crack/pop kind of tuning. If you can help at all, thank you
i like the DW tuning on that set. for small toms, they have a very big sound, the kick is perfect to me, toms great, I like a bit more rattle to my snare and would loosen the wires a bit [ to funky for me]. but all in all, they do sound bigger than before
Both tunings sounded good to me., which isn't surprising. After all, these shells are excellent and offer a wide range of tuning options. When it comes to kick drum in particular, I feel that tuning and damping have a big impact on the feel (how much bounce you get, how far into the head the beater goes, etc.). These days, I tend to tune my kicks by feel more than sound really, and deal with the sound by using EQ and comp. Very interesting and informative video, as usual! And great playing too! Thanks!
1985 Premier Royale APK: years ago, I was cleaning/polishing my piano black wrapped finish and had taken all the hardware off all 4 wood shells to do this. I then decided to tone-match the shells with my keyboard, (12, 13, 16, 22, Basswood/Mahogony mix). I then balanced each shell with one fingertip centered on the inside (as best as I could with bass drum) and tapped each "hanging" shell using my felt-side DW bass drum beater with my other hand. I then "ear-matched" each shell's "tone" as best as I could to a note/key on my keyboard. It actually kinda worked. I mean, it wasn't really that hard to find a "matching" note/key on the keyboard. Attempting to tune the heads to these "notes" was challenging for me, though, and musically, I didn't really have the musical training to navigate my tuning attempts to any other "options." However, I think attempting to tune each shell to the matching notes "opened" up, or "warmed up" my toms, but didn't bring the tunings to my particular tastes. I thought, "Do I conform to my drums, or do I make my drums conform to me?" Lesson learned. Plus, it just seems that so much of what I hear seems to come primarily from the heads themselves and the amount of air between the top and bottom heads.
ever since I learned Nolly's drum tuning method, i've only been complimented by every drummer's kit I've teched/tuned that it was one of the most well tuned kits they've played behind, not as a brag but a testament to the tuning method. you don't need a tunebot, just some sort of piano phone app or pitch pipe for referencing the tone. so much faster and more consistent than tuning by ear, and maintaining a tuning is so simple and easy because there's a concrete note you're tuning to. the drum doesn't go out of tune halfway through tracking a song and then you crank on the wrong lugs and have a different sounding floor tom for half of your takes. to those who don't know: toms are tuned to a selected note by tuning the resonant head one semitone below the note, and the batter head 4 semitones below that note (ie. 10 inch tom tuned to D, resonant head C#, batter head Bb), and then snare to whatever note, batter side cranked. Has worked perfectly on every kit I've tuned, gives the most clean and pure note I've ever heard from a kit just sitting behind it.
Hell yes they sound great tuned the dw way. More damping would sort the kick (and sn) maybe. I know loads of people that would tune the drums every change of song when when recording, and techs that tune the kit for the drummer. Great recording and playing too.
I play a DW Collectors kit in church and tuned to pitch once, and quickly changed it back to my own tune. I also prefer the oem DW heads, after trying several types. Overall I’ve been pretty happy with their sound. I’d like to hear your church playing too. 👍
My experience tuning drums is like David said sometimes having the drum NOT in tune with itself yields the best results. Like you were saying about the 2 dissonant type notes and kill the weird ringy stuff, doing that on just one head can get you good results. Ironically I've found with tuning drums, sometimes the harder you try and more anal you get about getting everything perfect, the worse your results are. I do agree, those 2 rack toms sounded great tuned there.
As a non drummer bass player that Tune Bot is badass !!! Also, this is a very good video and the first time I've seen you, so I fall into the "Welcome" category as to the "Welcome Back" as you stated. The demo at the end blows my mind with revelations ! A whole new outlook at drums.
I was an Electrician for over 37 years. I learned a little trick that will definitely help you with screws loosening up. Get a good grade of fingernail polish. Every Electrician has his/her own color. When you tighten screws, or bolts, apply some on the head and nut, always in the same line, after you torque them to the set inch-pounds or foot-pounds, depends on the bolt or screw size. The procedure serves two purposes. 1. when it dries, it acts as a vibration inhibitor against turning. 2. You can see, with a glance, if anything has moved. (Also, you can tell who did the work, by the color code) (( Most folks don't realize, that AC (alternating current) produces a Counter Clockwise rotation vibration. Over time, this inherent action loosens hardware. That's why a tune-up of systems includes checking tightness of hardware.)) I don't know about the direction of rotation for drums. I do know that if you're feeling good, your nervous system will tighten the screws on your glasses. You'll notice they are a little stiff when unfolding the temple pieces. However, if you're feeling poorly, the screws in your glasses will back out, on their own and your temple piece will get very loose or your lense will fall out. A touch of clear fingernail polish on the threads and on the screw head, will prevent them from following their natural course. Hope this helps lots of folks. Bill, from Tn. 🇺🇸
I’ve never tuned a kit like this but I enjoyed watching you do it. The full you played at 10:31 is killer. You’re a great player. Love your channel. Keep on keeping 💥
I always tune my bottom Tom head to a note that gets a good sound, then tune the reso head to the major 5th of that notes scale. Then I tune the batter head of the next highest drum to the note of the reso head of the floor Tom. Then repeat for all the drums including the snare. Sounds complicated but it’s really not once you do it. I really like the sound for worship music and rock music with coated heads
I have this same exact drum set! mine sounds exactly like it did before you tuned it to the notes DW suggests. Honestly I've always tuned until they sound good. Can't complain about the set, it's just amazing was worth every penny.
That’s the problem with DW is the lug screws that come undone..That seemed to happen at every show since I had them. Considering I spent $650 on the kick drum alone & never had this issue with any other drum kit I tightened everything on the five piece only for the tension rods to start backing out. I’m not a heavy hitter at all SO I put them on a dolly, wheeled them into GC & traded them for a Yamaha Stage Custom & got the kit for free and $175 store credit. Now I have 3 stage customs and a recording custom & will never go back. All of the problems by going to even the cheaper Yamaha kit solved every headache I dealt with for over a year from DW. Saying you either “really love or hate them” hit the bullseye. GREAT video btw!
As owner of DW myself; I’d say there’s definitely downsides to them, but I went with them because it’s so hard to get custom drums from any of the other major manufacturers. Most want to pick sizes for you, and if you don’t like the color: you’re screwed. As far as snare sounds, the Ludwig black beauty is still king
Really interesting video! I asked Sam from HHG what he thought about this idea of DW tuning their shells and interestingly, he said that they get the resonant frequency of the shell before any hardware is put on, so when hardware is put on, the mass/density of the shell itself changes, so the note of the shell itself actually changes. He also didn't see the point in it.
Exactly my thoughts. The pitch if measured with the hardware off is going to be very different from the pitch measured with the hardware on. In other words shell pitch is DW marketing bullshit. I own a kit too and tuned them to where they sounded best to my ears which coincidentally exactly matched the notes of my guitarists open stings. Found this out when he was tuning.
Here’s a tip. To make perfect bass holes, just heat a metal can on the stove in the size you want, then push it through the mylar. It will seal the edges and is done in like 5 seconds. I like multiple holes using a red bull can, personally
We rented a Sonor kit a while ago for a session. Man, the oval badge Tom sound was out of this world. In the UK their jazz kits are fairly ubiquitous but little else, sadly.
I’m kind of a newbie drummer who plays a great kit at church. I got a decent Gretsch mahogany set to practice on at home and have never been able to tune it well. I just need it to sound decent so I can bless those listening to me practice (aka…my husband and cats). My toms in particular just always sounded bad and not musical. Finally today I just took my drum tuner and tuned to the same pitch that your pitches were before trying the DW tuning. My word. My kit has never sounded this good. I am so excited to just play and enjoy how musical it is now. Thank you so much for sharing your sounds!
Lovely video and lovely playing. I totally agree that it's "fun" to tune to the factory specifications, but it's even better to tune them to your liking. Thank you for sharing.
I believe the reason they stamp the note on the shell is for themselves when they are putting a set together: so that when they put a set like 10-12-14 the timber note of the 12 isn't too close to the note of the 14 😊 from what I understand it is NOT a tuning guide 🤔
A worker doesn't need all of the signatures from CEOs and certified seals and whatever to put a kit together. That's also extra work and money with printing and cleanly placing the sticker just for a worker's "benefit," when writing in some light chalk or just organizing them by pitch, no mark needed, is enough. If at the end of all of that, it's still mostly meant to be for putting a kit together, it's still definitely being spun into a consumer thing.
It’s not for the workers at at the factory. It’s for the drummers to be able to order extra drums that match their already exciting kits. Like if one would add an 8” and a 14” to your 10,12,16
As a professional drummer of 38 years... I can say, that in a STUDIO situation, the toms and snare should ALWAYS be tuned to the 1st, 3rd(major or minor), 5th, 7th (major or minor) or 8th(the -8th if low tom), doubling the lower or higher octave of the 1st of scale, depending whatever key the song is in and whichever 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th the guitars/bass/keys etc are playing.. In a LIVE situation, though, it is best to tune that 3rd (major or minor) to a 4th of whichever key is MOST used in a live set, depending on the key, again. That way, it covers most of everything, but not everything, of course. But it's certainly the closest option to perfect. Tape helps.
As a guitarist I always wondered if drums needed a specific tuning but I can always tell when they’re off. I hope more drummers see this and tune their kits. It’s way more musical.
If it sounded off, it was probably because whoever tuned them just didn't tune them well lol. You can generally set good intervals and pitches by ear with time. In my experience only 30% of drummers actually bother with tuning them musically or to a certain pitch.
I actually like the sound of the drums before you tuned them to the "specified" note, etc, at least on the floor / kick / snare. I agree the top two toms sound better afterward, but I totally agree with your final comment about tuning them to specific notes.
I had a DW Collector's Series Gold for a decade. I just assumed there was something wrong with me because I never liked it. I tried almost every head combination I could think of. I finally gave up and sold it. I got a Gretsch Broadkaster to replace it a couple of years ago. It sounds simply amazing. I wish I had done it on 2009 when I got the DW. Yuk.
I have had a large 9 piece double bass Sonor S-Class Pro thin maple shell kit since 2005. I always tune the bottom head a half step higher than the batter. A wonderful kit and with only one screw per lug the drums are quite light. When lugging around a large kit it really helps.
Thanks for the video. I prefer the sounds you got after tuning to the DW pitches. Better, clearer tone all around. I also prefer the heads you used on the toms the second time around, for the same reason.
It gets so difficult with the tune bot. Especially with the snare. I never know if the tuning is with the snare off or on. But the tune bot has an app that makes things a little easier. I’m very picky about tuning. Usually I try to make sure my toms don’t rattle the snare which can be very very hard.
Yeah it can struggle on the higher pitches. Sometimes with the overtones it get hard for the TB to read the frequencies correctly and it just showes you a way higher frequency or simply 400, even though you know youre far away from it. I then try the filter option or muffle a super tiny bit with my finger tip on the head, which often but not always gets the job done. Sometimes you have to restart it or give it some other pitch it can read and then you have to come back to the snare again.
That's the same problem I have. I discovered that the weather plays a big part in how my drums sound.Some days my Toms SING and have fantastic resonance! You don't notice your snare buzz because they sound sooo FUCKING GOOOOD!!!! Boy, the STRESS we drummers have to deal with!! I think it's time to burn one......or two...lol
I've had a 6-piece DW Collectors series set for many years now and it has always been outstanding. I went with 8,10,12,14- inch toms. The set cuts through the mix perfectly and is very musical..
Thanks for the video. There are many reasons to keep using suggested tunings. Live venues, recording, using different kits. A bad room changes everything.
Id like to mention that DW finds the note of the shell with no lugs. Adding the lugs drastically changes that note so its all arbitrary pseudoscience marketing lol
Agreed. DW= Dollar$ Wa$ted. Overhyped, overpriced, over-rated. Physics 101: a resonating body (drumshell) will lose both resonance and lower harmonics the moment you attach the lugs and other hardware. So the inner drumshell note label is meaningless marketing hype! I'll absolutely take my TAMA Granstars over any DW kit! Waaay more powerful tone.
@@Fl_Broccodile I mean I have a star classic maple too, I’ll tell you this much the quality of the drums are top notch and they’re drums are killer. I still like the sound of my dw more though. Watchu y’all think abt sonor?
I do this with my Tama Starclassic Maple kit. I first had to find the resonant note of the shell. For anyone that wants to try it, here is how I I used sympathetic resonance got the note of the shell: 1. Strip the heads off the drum 2. Hold the shell by resting it on your finger tip(s) with a finger or 2 or 3, depending on the size of the drum, from the inside. The less contact you have with the shell, the better. 3. Play a note on a guitar, keyboard, WHATEVER. Just make sure it's LOUD. 4. While playing the notes, Be cognizant of the resonance of the shell. 5. Play notes until you feel the shell resonate. What ever note it resonates the most, would be the resonant frequency of the shell. Be sure to go up and down past the note yo verify that is resonates the most at that frequency. 6. Get to Tunin
As a guitarist I had no idea drums had tuned notes.....I always just thought in terms of just hearing the tempo, the pattern, the high or low sound of a paticular drum or cymbal, the hardness or softness it is played......glad this opened my ears a bit. Thanks!
Well, I think that you did a great job and I appreciate your videos. Being trained musically really helps with the notes and it does make a huge difference. Everyone will have their own opinion about sounds and to me, it does take a lot of practice and patience to get an acoustic drum set tweaked to make it sound better. Also to add, I own several kits, DW Collectors, Mapex Birch over Maple shells, and a couple of electronic drums. My favorite kit, which is the least expensive is the Mapex! They are so well fabricated, tough hardware, beautiful natural finish, and it’s all about installing the right drum heads, and proper tuning. That’s my opinion about it, but I’m sure no one really cares!
Great video. I think also to be factored in is that you are an amazing musician which does also factor in to the sound of the drums and how you hit them.
I always kept my drums tune to the DW recommendation, since it’s a timbre of the shell. They sing. I recorded an album at a pretty decent studio with an engineer who has recorded hundreds of bands over decades and the guy has about 20 drum sets. Of all vintages and makes and models not to mention he’s heard every brand of drums of other bands coming through to record. Needless to say after we record it, he was begging me for months to purchase my kit. They really do sound amazing collector series raw maple with a satin maple finish. absolutely nothing but wood and a light varnish. No wrap, no thick lacquer. And the sizes I had built were small and tight. 12 x 9, Tom 14 x 14floor and a 20 x 18. Bass and I had a brass five 5x14 snare. Also, my biggest regret with that drum head was listening to some idiot at a nightclub, telling me to cut a hole in my bass drum head. Completely killed the sound. I would have guys at clubs mic it from the batter side until I bought an internal mic.
When I tune my drums I snug each lug just enough to get some resonance; then, playing near each lug, I make sure they’re balanced; then I do “CPR” on the head to seat it on the bearing edge. I continue tapping at each lug and tuning in a star pattern until they’re all matched at the note I think sounds good with the kit. I have tuned several DW kits keeping each drum to the prescribed note. Their standard, store bought kits don’t usually have any rhyme or reason to the note selection, but their custom kits always seem to sound best when tuned to the resonant note. The only situation where I don’t balance my drumheads is if I know I’ll be playing a Latin set and want to get some spicy timbale sounds out of my toms and snare.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Anybody tune their drums like this?
nope never. im on a hard punk rock band so mine are always very low... apart from the snare
I make em go bim bem bom bum boom respectively
Sounds like a drum tuned like this for a video and it sounded like ass lol.
Edit: I also don't tune my drums like that
nah
i just tune them to what i like
Never :(
I don’t understand why some people get so angry and triggered that DW tells you what the pitch of the shell is. You can tune whatever pitch you like. DW simply tells you the resonant frequency of the shell and you decide if you want to use it or not. It’s a simple matter of physics. Every object has its’ own resonant frequency and if you expose that object to a matching frequency it will cause that object to start vibrating on its’ own. So if you tune the head pitch to match the shell, you will get the most active and full vibration out of the shell. If hou like that, then great! If you don’t, ALSO great! Use it or don’t. You do you.
A very accurate, concise response to something like this. I've always loved DW. But I also, likewise like as much any quality, especially handmade and custom, drums, basses, guitars, etc. 🙂
Because that would mean more work for them to realise that tuning a drum is important.
Amd then you feel like you're doing something wrong by ignoring that big C# or whatever it is that they've taken the time to print inside the shell. If any other company suggested doing something with their product, you'd probably abide by it. I personally think the pitch of the shell thing is a total nonsense. It might sound somewhat like a G when struck with a mallet, but guess what? You're not going to be striking your drum shells with mallets and if if you do, they're just going to go "tunk" once you put all those lugs and mounting hardware on it. And then your going to squash some heads on it with metal hoops. It might be just some extra information, but it's useless, unnecessary information.
alan duncan thank you for summing up hardware: that's absolutely a Problem - as far as I'm aware those pitches are taken from the bare shell of those drums (probably with the drillings already done - wouldnt make sense any other way). The Problem that I have with that is, that as soon as the lugs are added to the drum there is additional weight added, which means that through added mass the resonance and pitch of the drum shifts (works the same way on drums as it works in object resonances on architecture), which totally trivializes the measured pitch of the bare shell. You might be tempted to tune to that note, but it surely does not get you closer on matching the actual resonance of the drum with installed hardware, which makes the bare shell tone as random of a pitch to choose, as any other. I think it is misleading to add that information to those shells and does not aid you in finding the right tone with your drums. That being said, I still understand, why people might find dw drums appealing and I do so too, to some degree, just not for this particular feature.
Except they don't just slap a sticker on without any influencing, in their videos they go on and on about how important the shell note is and list all the "benefits" of it, which is bullshit because i've yet to hear a "properly tuned" DW kit sound better than it being tuned by ear, in fact I would argue that tuning the shells to their spec makes it sound much worse than almost any alternative tuning.
You're not the boss of me DW.
I'm tuning to Cb.
No way, Stephen. I'm tuning to B#
Hahahaha that's awesome Stephen!!!! 😂🤣😅
I see what you did there!
Thats illegal. Im calling the police.
@@rdavidr come at me bro. I'll hit a B# on that high tom so quick it'll have you second guessing your life.
not gonna lie, that snare is the EXACT sound i crave when tuning mine. snares like bullets for me dawg.
@Arnywar not only the tune, but also the body. Its gotta have punch with the crack. Thats the sweet spot.
The snare is perfect
yes the snare is amazing
Absolutely, well said.
@ContextofSalad58 I was told that despite being with Pearl at the time, Chad Smith used a Gretsch snare to record BSSM. Don't know the truth, but it's an interesting rumour to start if wrong.
In the mix it sounds amazing. That's what matters. How a kit sounds all by itself means nothing if it sounds bad with the whole song. That snare was PERFECT.
agree. love the snare. but i like my snares tighter than a welldiggers asshole so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
truth
Somebody who gets it!!! Really that's what matters with any instrument. How does it sound with the band? I remember trying to get this point across to so many bass players through the years. A lot of bass tones sound amazing on their own but, they don't work with the band. You don't know until you hear everything together.
Dude, I loved the snare tone and tune. The rack toms sounded great. I like your previous tuning on the floor. I couldn’t tell how the kick sounded. Thanks for posting.
Indeed the whole sounds tight but has that character to it, really blends in with a mix
The way John Good recommends to tune drums is to tension the bottom head to the pitch of the shell. Then tune the top head somewhere between a half step to a minor third above the pitch of the bottom head. I tried it on my DW Jazz kit (I did a whole step above the bottom). The entire kit sounded great. 12, 13, 14, 16, 24.
People might not know that John was a drum tech who toured with some of the best drummers with the biggest artists of that era. He certainly was in the trenches. He has a lot of real world experience with this.
I also LOVE the True Pitch 50 tension rods. When you’re dialing in precise pitches, it makes it much easier. They also hold the tension better than regular rods. I use a drill bit anyway so there was no aggravation of it taking a long time to thread them by hand.
The best thing about all of this is that it gets people thinking and experimenting with tuning, which is a skill that develops over time.
1:44 Original Tuning
8:53 DW Recommended Tunings
I like the overall in the original recording. I liked the snare better with the DW recommended tuning.
Thanks, people who have 10+ min videos with no time stamps are scam artists
@@jd0879 you're exaggerating
These are different heads, though.
@@jamesdevine02 No I’m not. People just want to get straight to the point. It takes two seconds for uploader to do this but they choose not to force us to watch the whole video
As a drummer, recording engineer, and live sound engineer I've been fortunate to work with some amazing drummers and drum techs. It has been a standard practice to tune drums to the fundamental, or alternatively to intervals of, the shells resonant frequency (or pitch) by drum techs and engineers in professional recording studios and touring applications for decades because it eliminates dissonant overtones (wonky, pitchy, ringing), and reduces the need for dampening that constricts the tone, resonance, and sustain of the drum. DW started to measure the resonant frequency of each shell and print it on the label of each individual drum in it's kits at the request of professional studio drummers and drum techs as a courtesy and a time saver. Before DE started to do this (and currently for all of the manufacturer kits that still don't) it was/is a fairly time consuming task for drum techs to do themselves each time they are working with a new kit. It's not always required, since some drum sounds are meant to have minimal sustain and resonance. However for certain styles of music the drum sound demands a rich, open tone with excellent sustain and minimal, or no, dampening and tuning the top and bottom heads to the shells fundamental (or an interval of it's fundamental) is the way to go in professional applications. Drummers who don't understand this usually fall into the amateur catagory, with little or no real professional experience working in the studio, or live with a professional tech and/or engineer.
Bingo!
Yes, you are absolutely right. I am a sound engineer.
Very condescending to refer to drummers, who dont tune to specific pitch, as amateur's.
I've done touring, session work an albums with no problems...
@@passtheparcel2007 He didn’t say it wasn’t professional to tune them differently, he said it wasn’t professional to not know how it works.
Personally I hate that particular drum sound, and I hate that techs delivering kits to a session or a gig tune them that way. The most important thing is to find a neutral pitch that does not exite or dip too much with the room. People tuning their toms to the frquency that goes the most BOOOM in the room are the ones ending up with over-eqed and wimpy sounding drums on the record or in the room on a gig.
(Sound eng. with a degree, 200+ albums, hundreds and hundreds of FOH gigs)
Well said.
- ex-pro engineer
Their recommended tuning worked just fine in my opinion. Big thing you want is enough separation to makes the toms distinct from each other.
Sounds better when tuned to DW's recommended notes for sure. That snare sound is so nice 👌
I know! our chubby bro is cray cray
cranked snares FTW!
I really liked the after tuning. Especially the cranked snare. But with the backing track as a whole it sounded great.
me too!!
I second that. Yeah nice playing.
Hey David. John Good has been on the record multiple times about this. The note printed on the inside of the shell is what you tune the bottom head to. You can then do whatever you want with the batter head afterwards
@rdavidr This! Try this out... Would love to hear different tunings of the top head with the bottom head at resonant heads at the same.
@@JakeMartinWallace Check out Sounds Like A Drum on yt, lots of videos experimenting on tuning, what happens with intervals between heads, dampening, everything drum nerdy
Agreed. I have heard john say this too.
I'm listening on my phone speaker, so judge this content accordingly. But to me, your drums cut through the mix really nicely and suit the style of music really well. It is a little on the high side, but for big band music, that's what you want.
I love the snare, but would reach for a moon gel to dampen the ringing.
It's more style dependant than what is "right"
True! And sorry to be so nit-picky but what actually John Good recommends for the batter head is that you can go as far as a minor third sharper on the batter head relatively to the bottom head/shell note (in case that you find that you want the sound of the drum to pitch bend and fall after you hit it). You can see that here: th-cam.com/video/yl9wgXSfxew/w-d-xo.html
I have to say that the mix sounded amazing. Hearing them separately not so much, some kind of magic happened there. I'm actually pretty impressed, like everything had its own space....
I agree. I had almost exactly the same opinions as rdr on this -- the rack toms sounded GREAT, the floor tom was a little .. ehhh, and the snare was tighter than I like. But, it _really_ worked in that mix. Although, it's hard to say whether that was because of THE tuning, or just _good_ tuning (and good playing, and good micing, mixing, processing, etc.)
@@nickwallette6201 yeah he makes it look easy
I’d say it’s a combination of a really good mix and also a great player who adjusted to how the drums “want” to be played. Drums can sound super wonky in isolation, but when you are playing in the context of the entire kit, especially with a backing track, sometimes that wonkiness actually helps the drums to carve out their own space in the mix.
In that same regard, you wouldn’t want to take a kit that sounds like that and play with a really loose, wide open sort of feel because it would feel flat. He recognized the tightness and short decay that the tuning was giving him and played in a way that made it feel right. Being able to recognize what the song is calling for is part of what separates a good musician from a great one, in my opinion.
@@ZacharyWThomas Exactly. You can make the biggest guitar sound on earth, but it will pretty much only be usable in solos. For everything else, the engineer will at the very minimum chop off the high and low end of that guitar to make it sit in the mix. Most sounds in a professional music production are actually surprisingly small when soloed, but they are engineered to fit with the rest of the elements like a puzzle piece. That's what makes a mix sound huge and clean at the same time.
From a viewer perspective that tuning was awesome. Especially the way they sit in the mix. I know from experience that it always sounds and feels different behind the kit. I play DWs and love the fact that they're consistent and the hardware is always going to lock my positioning in. For most of us gigging drummers, those are the most important aspects. And you need to feel comfortable with the sound you produce. My taste is all over the place, so playing a drum set that's not in tune really doesn't bug me like it use to. As long as the sound in the house is good, then I'm happy.
Funny how when you listen to a drum set that sounds godlike in the audience, sounds like crap when your playing them. Such was the case at my church. I'm not sure how they produced such a massive sound in the foh, yet behind the kit, it sounded like cardboard boxes taped together! Hope you get to do the Sonors... I love watching your channel!
Bro that is soooo true that has happened to me before lol
"funny how when you hear a drum set from the audience it sounds godlike, but sounds like crap when you're behind it playing it." May not be an exact quote, but I'm lazy and not gonna double-check. Another one, something about consistency and hardware being solid and locked down is important to us. Yes, and yes
It decided to go ahead and post the comment right there. Guess Google thought anymore would be rambling. Ok, I'll leave it at that google
That drumset that sounds good like out front probably sounds like cardboard that vaguely resembles a note but decays so quickly you can't really tell from behind. Out front, John Bonham lmao. Mine sound that way, after a trip through sd3 on its way to the mix that is lol
Absolutely love that cranked, highly resonant snare sound
About 3 years ago during my freshman year of high school I got to go on a field trip to the DW factory in Oxnard California and it was definitely an impressive facility and I was lucky enough to get to play some incredible drum set’s. Over all that was a great experience and is know a great memory!
The dueling triad sounds like a horror movie theme. This was super interesting. I do prefer the DW tuning. I also agree it's not worth the extra time.
I was discussing with a DW rep on the phone this very thing a while back. What he pointed out was that these shells are measured for their "note" when they're blanks. They're then drilled, finished (FinishPly or lacquer), then the hardware is mounted. All those steps change the fundamental note. He couldn't really say why except that's it's a cool feature John Good came up with, but doesn't really reflect the pitch of the final product.
It is just the resonant frequency of the drums nothing more.
John Good found a gimmick to come up with. I guess he could sell ice cubes to a Eskimo.
Gives DW a vibe and mystic. Something that is lacking in manufacturing today!
@@sibes4 Sure. What's that got to do with anything? I mean... besides the soul of the drum.
@@jimnasium452 Tuning the drum to match the resonant frequency, or a simple ratio of it, will produce a different tone than when tuning arbitrarily since the shell will vibrate more naturally. Whether one is better than the other is all down to personal preference though.
Rdavid, yes let's see you playing in live venues with bands. I know you're an accomplished drummer too.
As for DW set I've never owned one but I have been to their factory in Oxnard for business several times. They are the nicest, most professional group and build very high quality equipment.
And their "candy shop" room with lots of different kits and drums to try out is like heaven for drummers! Maybe someday I'll be able to afford a DW kit. For now I'll just stick with my old 30 year old Premier set.
The point of DW Timbre matching is to give separation between your toms. I had a Pearl masters kit with a 13" rack tom and a 14" floor tom that were practically the same pitch, which made it a nightmare to tune. I hated that 14" floor tom. Pearl has this problem a lot as they like to make the shells on the larger drums thicker which actually increases the pitch. "Timbre matching" is just a marketing term, other companies do this to ensure separation between the drums. You can tune the drums wherever you want to it doesn't matter. I've never tuned my DW's to the shell note.
My drummer has a Tama Starclassic(?) kit, I have no idea the model but it's got that, I think the sizes are 10-12 rack, 14-16 floor, he added the 16, that did not come with the kit. But getting that 14inch floor tom to sound good at all was a massive challenge, and then to get it to play nice with other drums while sounding good was virtually impossible. I now have a different drummer, he uses a Tama Granstar kit from 1989 (identical to the one Lars used on Metallica's Black Album tour, but in a faded pink instead of white and black, it looks SICK) but anyway, he has 12-13 rack, 16-18 floor. And Basically you tune that 18 just above finger tight to get rid of that "motorcycle" sort of growl heads give you when they're too lose, and then tun the 16 a little higher than you normally would, and that is MONEY right there. Something about the 14 size floor tom just I could never get to work right.
Full disclosure: I'm not a drummer although I can play enough to fake my way through easy songs. But I am a bandleader and sound guy, and have been for almost 15 years, and I'm also a perfectionist never-satisfied type so I always just say to my drummers, "Can I tune your drums for you? I've gotten good at it by now and I know what I like and what works and doesn't in a live setting." And my drummers are almost always like, "Yeah sure man go nuts, I fucking HATE tuning drums if you make em sound good for me I'll whack em for ya." And it works well for all parties involved lol.
When I played drums through the mid-1980s to 90s I never saw a 14" floor tom, but a 14" rack tom was common. If it was harder music the toms would start at the larger sizes and be deeper in length too. All metal drummers needed to match the look and had big toms on the double bass kits.
@@djjazzyjeff1232 same with me… I call myself the lead bassist but I’m the sound guy, I swap out on rythm and lead guitar, drum on some songs especially the ones I write, play keys/synth, woodwinds, mandolin, slide guitar setar and sing. I started on guitar and am most comfortable with strings.
I just tune drums to what sounds best to my ears. I have a tuner that I don’t even use. And have gotten specific tightness numbers to do from drum techs. They never work out on our 74 ludwig kit though with Reno empoerors. I know nothing about drums but when I’m done tuning they always sound better than when any of my drummers have tuned. Just by ear, just by feel. No one else does it so I do it. I’m also a perfectionist and I have pitch perfect hearing. Well more than pitch perfect. Overtones, undertones everything I here. And then I see it and I’ve to work with it in Logic Pro using the presonus 24R. Check out the presonus 24R!
I've had a set of DWs for 20 years. I ended up tuning the batter head to the note stamped in the shell, The reso side is a major 3rd above the batter. This has worked well for me.
I usually crank the shit outta my snare, so I personally love that snare sound
it actually started to grow on me... not for everyday, but I think this will be my new cranked to hell snare lol
I love a good hi tuned snare. That Ludwig piccolo you did a video on way back when (the dumpster snare) blew my mind the first time I heard it. Dream snare sound.
It sounds great to me, especially the snare, but even so, I’m a Pearl player at heart
Same
I'm a Pearl boy too...
Yup, you'll have to peel my Pearls out of my cold dead hands.
In my opinion you just can't beat the sound or tone of Pearls.
Dude went from being decent at drums but having great videos to being an AMAZING drummer with top notch content. You sound soooo good man. And so do the drums ofc
I have to say, the sound after the tuning was freaking unreal. That's the best drum set I've ever heard, much better than before you tuned them IMO and I strongly disagree with your findings, however, very nice playing!
It’s amazing how much better it sounded when you tuned the drums to DW’s recommendation.
I don't tune my drums like that in the perfect pitch but how this kit sounds including the snare I thought was actually an improvement
Could be the fresh heads and more attention to detail when tuning
@@ryanshreevedrums very true. I also think cause I'm a fan of higher pitched tuning. Hell my rack is 8 10 12
Interesting. I'm not a drummer, but , man, I thought that snare sounded like hot garbage. OK, that's exaggerating it, but I just did not like the sound of it, and was relieved to learn neither did the drummer.
@@pulykamell i honestly think context around the snare helps too. I do love higher ping to cut through downtuned guitars
This tuning method works for DW because of the way the make the shells (horizontal, vertical or crossed play woods). But it is not a rule.
Hearing the kit for the first time...I can say for me that the kit sat just perfect in the mix...DW seems like they have their heads really into the kit...Giving you the shell frequency is a huge advantage if you use it or not is your choice...But for me the tuned kit sounded very natural ...Thank you for the hard work.
You can do this with any kit. When I was in college I took a science of acoustics class and did this for a class project. I brought a tom, a keyboard, and an amp to class. Took the hardware off, and tapped the shell with a mallet until I matched the pitch by ear, used the keyboard to figure out it was an "e". Then I put the hardware back and tuned the batter to the 'e' note and demonstrated resonance by carefully tuning the head and droning an e note through the amp until the drum started singing much more loudly. The entire system (head, shell) was resonating an e note along with the keyboard. After that, I said I had read in a magazine to tune the bottom head a fifth above and I said I'd never tried it so I tuned it to a 'b' and had the class comment on if they liked the sound. My teacher was impressed (I got an A). As far as how to tune your kit, it doesn't matter how you do it but at least it's good to understand the intent behind matching heads to certain pitches. At least educate yourself a little before you stray into your own sound.
I do have perfect pitch and after trying to tune my low-end drums to notes that make sense with eachother and with the drums themeselves, I would absolutely appreciate having drums that clearly sound in a note and are labeled. The harmonics getting in eachother's way meant I had to listen to multiple notes at once and figure out which was the one I was looking for.
That said, they picked some weird pitches to target when crafting them, a triad or straight fouths/ fifths are easier to throw around than a maj7 chord
Been tuning my Tama starclassic set to the key of the song recorded in the studio. It makes it sound amazing with the song.
Yoooo I’m getting some starclassic maples soon, what do you reccomend tuning for an overall tuning. I like a high, not too resonant crack/pop kind of tuning.
If you can help at all, thank you
i like the DW tuning on that set. for small toms, they have a very big sound, the kick is perfect to me, toms great, I like a bit more rattle to my snare and would loosen the wires a bit [ to funky for me]. but all in all, they do sound bigger than before
Both tunings sounded good to me., which isn't surprising. After all, these shells are excellent and offer a wide range of tuning options. When it comes to kick drum in particular, I feel that tuning and damping have a big impact on the feel (how much bounce you get, how far into the head the beater goes, etc.). These days, I tend to tune my kicks by feel more than sound really, and deal with the sound by using EQ and comp.
Very interesting and informative video, as usual! And great playing too! Thanks!
As a non-drummer, I am totally shocked to learn that you can actually tune drums to a chord.
If it moves
It makes a pitch
;)
@@jaythoven67 Yep, it totally makes sense, now that I know it's a thing!
I learned about it back in mid 70s . When Ian Paice and Roger Glover used to talk about tuning the drums to the bass.
I have tuned my toms to the three chords of the song before. Old school trick.
Are you a musician of any sort?
1985 Premier Royale APK: years ago, I was cleaning/polishing my piano black wrapped finish and had taken all the hardware off all 4 wood shells to do this.
I then decided to tone-match the shells with my keyboard, (12, 13, 16, 22, Basswood/Mahogony mix).
I then balanced each shell with one fingertip centered on the inside (as best as I could with bass drum) and tapped each "hanging" shell using my felt-side DW bass drum beater with my other hand.
I then "ear-matched" each shell's "tone" as best as I could to a note/key on my keyboard.
It actually kinda worked.
I mean, it wasn't really that hard to find a "matching" note/key on the keyboard.
Attempting to tune the heads to these "notes" was challenging for me, though, and musically, I didn't really have the musical training to navigate my tuning attempts to any other "options."
However, I think attempting to tune each shell to the matching notes "opened" up, or "warmed up" my toms, but didn't bring the tunings to my particular tastes.
I thought, "Do I conform to my drums, or do I make my drums conform to me?"
Lesson learned.
Plus, it just seems that so much of what I hear seems to come primarily from the heads themselves and the amount of air between the top and bottom heads.
I really enjoyed the way the DW tuning fit in the mix with the other instruments, more so than the way you had them tuned originally
I agree. SONOR. DW. and the Pearl export all have that rich lower sound
ever since I learned Nolly's drum tuning method, i've only been complimented by every drummer's kit I've teched/tuned that it was one of the most well tuned kits they've played behind, not as a brag but a testament to the tuning method. you don't need a tunebot, just some sort of piano phone app or pitch pipe for referencing the tone. so much faster and more consistent than tuning by ear, and maintaining a tuning is so simple and easy because there's a concrete note you're tuning to. the drum doesn't go out of tune halfway through tracking a song and then you crank on the wrong lugs and have a different sounding floor tom for half of your takes.
to those who don't know: toms are tuned to a selected note by tuning the resonant head one semitone below the note, and the batter head 4 semitones below that note (ie. 10 inch tom tuned to D, resonant head C#, batter head Bb), and then snare to whatever note, batter side cranked. Has worked perfectly on every kit I've tuned, gives the most clean and pure note I've ever heard from a kit just sitting behind it.
Lots of misinformation in that last paragraph.
@@morbidmanmusic care to explain, have done this exact thing for 5 years on dozens of kits
No such thing as misinfo when tuning your drums. Unless your saying something completely out of left field.
Hell yes they sound great tuned the dw way. More damping would sort the kick (and sn) maybe.
I know loads of people that would tune the drums every change of song when when recording, and techs that tune the kit for the drummer.
Great recording and playing too.
I agree. The floor tom sounds better in my opinion, David’s tuning always makes the floors like a kick drum.
I love higher tuned snares, especially piccolo snares. So I thought that snare sounded pretty golden
That is a true drum tuning, in fact I dare say that this is how a drum should be tuned, no matter if it is low/medium/high range like a DW.
I play a DW Collectors kit in church and tuned to pitch once, and quickly changed it back to my own tune. I also prefer the oem DW heads, after trying several types. Overall I’ve been pretty happy with their sound. I’d like to hear your church playing too. 👍
arnt the DW heads just clear ambassadors with DW printed on them
@@krusher74 They have a wide dampening ring around them that cuts the overtones, so I don't have to add any extra dampening.
Wow, I was skeptical at first to the shell notes but it works for this kit. I do agree about the floor and kick but overall well done sir.
My experience tuning drums is like David said sometimes having the drum NOT in tune with itself yields the best results. Like you were saying about the 2 dissonant type notes and kill the weird ringy stuff, doing that on just one head can get you good results. Ironically I've found with tuning drums, sometimes the harder you try and more anal you get about getting everything perfect, the worse your results are. I do agree, those 2 rack toms sounded great tuned there.
As a non drummer bass player that Tune Bot is badass !!! Also, this is a very good video and the first time I've seen you, so I fall into the "Welcome" category as to the "Welcome Back" as you stated. The demo at the end blows my mind with revelations ! A whole new outlook at drums.
I was an Electrician for over 37 years. I learned a little trick that will definitely help you with screws loosening up. Get a good grade of fingernail polish. Every Electrician has his/her own color. When you tighten screws, or bolts, apply some on the head and nut, always in the same line, after you torque them to the set inch-pounds or foot-pounds, depends on the bolt or screw size. The procedure serves two purposes. 1. when it dries, it acts as a vibration inhibitor against turning. 2. You can see, with a glance, if anything has moved. (Also, you can tell who did the work, by the color code)
(( Most folks don't realize, that AC (alternating current) produces a Counter Clockwise rotation vibration. Over time, this inherent action loosens hardware. That's why a tune-up of systems includes checking tightness of hardware.))
I don't know about the direction of rotation for drums. I do know that if you're feeling good, your nervous system will tighten the screws on your glasses. You'll notice they are a little stiff when unfolding the temple pieces. However, if you're feeling poorly, the screws in your glasses will back out, on their own and your temple piece will get very loose or your lense will fall out. A touch of clear fingernail polish on the threads and on the screw head, will prevent them from following their natural course.
Hope this helps lots of folks.
Bill, from Tn. 🇺🇸
Would love to see a church vlog David. I want to play in church myself so would love to know your thoughts
How many people truly LOL'd at the John Good Obi-Wan moment? I know I did. 😂
Great stuff, as usual, David.
I’ve never tuned a kit like this but I enjoyed watching you do it. The full you played at 10:31 is killer. You’re a great player. Love your channel. Keep on keeping 💥
the snare sounds AMAZING
I never realized how important this was. I definitely will be tuning like this in the future.
They sound phenomenal in the shell tuning. Also, would love to see that church gig vlog!
I always tune my bottom Tom head to a note that gets a good sound, then tune the reso head to the major 5th of that notes scale. Then I tune the batter head of the next highest drum to the note of the reso head of the floor Tom. Then repeat for all the drums including the snare. Sounds complicated but it’s really not once you do it. I really like the sound for worship music and rock music with coated heads
You have really come a long way as a set player since I have started watching your channel years ago. Bravo sir!
I have this same exact drum set! mine sounds exactly like it did before you tuned it to the notes DW suggests. Honestly I've always tuned until they sound good. Can't complain about the set, it's just amazing was worth every penny.
That’s the problem with DW is the lug screws that come undone..That seemed to happen at every show since I had them. Considering I spent $650 on the kick drum alone & never had this issue with any other drum kit I tightened everything on the five piece only for the tension rods to start backing out. I’m not a heavy hitter at all SO I put them on a dolly, wheeled them into GC & traded them for a Yamaha Stage Custom & got the kit for free and $175 store credit. Now I have 3 stage customs and a recording custom & will never go back. All of the problems by going to even the cheaper Yamaha kit solved every headache I dealt with for over a year from DW. Saying you either “really love or hate them” hit the bullseye. GREAT video btw!
David, you're playing has improved so much it's amazing. What the heck have you been doing to improve so much over the last few years?
P-r-a-c-t-i-s-e
You've already answered your own question, but I suspect you're too dense to realize that.
@@dmacrolens lol I suspect you're a lonely and bitter person, yet saying that adds nothing to the conversation.
Dmac....please ingest fece and expire. Are you smart enough to figure that out?? 😆
As owner of DW myself; I’d say there’s definitely downsides to them, but I went with them because it’s so hard to get custom drums from any of the other major manufacturers. Most want to pick sizes for you, and if you don’t like the color: you’re screwed. As far as snare sounds, the Ludwig black beauty is still king
DW is not the only one: Beside Sonor (SQ2 configurator!) and DW there are also many small companies who deliver real and unique custom drumsets.
I’d love to see more church drumming content, but honestly, I’ll watch any content you put out.
Really interesting video! I asked Sam from HHG what he thought about this idea of DW tuning their shells and interestingly, he said that they get the resonant frequency of the shell before any hardware is put on, so when hardware is put on, the mass/density of the shell itself changes, so the note of the shell itself actually changes. He also didn't see the point in it.
Exactly my thoughts. The pitch if measured with the hardware off is going to be very different from the pitch measured with the hardware on. In other words shell pitch is DW marketing bullshit. I own a kit too and tuned them to where they sounded best to my ears which coincidentally exactly matched the notes of my guitarists open stings. Found this out when he was tuning.
Here’s a tip. To make perfect bass holes, just heat a metal can on the stove in the size you want, then push it through the mylar. It will seal the edges and is done in like 5 seconds. I like multiple holes using a red bull can, personally
Good hack! Make sure you keep the head TIGHT on the drum and wear gloves or vice grips.
As someone with perfect pitch I absolutely love DWs tuned to their timber notes
Every drum made has a pitch its designed to be tuned to.
We rented a Sonor kit a while ago for a session. Man, the oval badge Tom sound was out of this world. In the UK their jazz kits are fairly ubiquitous but little else, sadly.
Your drumming has definitely improved lots over the last couple years.
I’m kind of a newbie drummer who plays a great kit at church. I got a decent Gretsch mahogany set to practice on at home and have never been able to tune it well. I just need it to sound decent so I can bless those listening to me practice (aka…my husband and cats). My toms in particular just always sounded bad and not musical. Finally today I just took my drum tuner and tuned to the same pitch that your pitches were before trying the DW tuning. My word. My kit has never sounded this good. I am so excited to just play and enjoy how musical it is now. Thank you so much for sharing your sounds!
Lovely video and lovely playing. I totally agree that it's "fun" to tune to the factory specifications, but it's even better to tune them to your liking. Thank you for sharing.
I love the sound of the snare after the tuning, that's exactly the kind of sound I look for in a snare.
I believe the reason they stamp the note on the shell is for themselves when they are putting a set together: so that when they put a set like 10-12-14 the timber note of the 12 isn't too close to the note of the 14 😊 from what I understand it is NOT a tuning guide 🤔
A worker doesn't need all of the signatures from CEOs and certified seals and whatever to put a kit together. That's also extra work and money with printing and cleanly placing the sticker just for a worker's "benefit," when writing in some light chalk or just organizing them by pitch, no mark needed, is enough. If at the end of all of that, it's still mostly meant to be for putting a kit together, it's still definitely being spun into a consumer thing.
It’s not for the workers at at the factory. It’s for the drummers to be able to order extra drums that match their already exciting kits. Like if one would add an 8” and a 14” to your 10,12,16
As a professional drummer of 38 years... I can say, that in a STUDIO situation, the toms and snare should ALWAYS be tuned to the 1st, 3rd(major or minor), 5th, 7th (major or minor) or 8th(the -8th if low tom), doubling the lower or higher octave of the 1st of scale, depending whatever key the song is in and whichever 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th the guitars/bass/keys etc are playing.. In a LIVE situation, though, it is best to tune that 3rd (major or minor) to a 4th of whichever key is MOST used in a live set, depending on the key, again. That way, it covers most of everything, but not everything, of course. But it's certainly the closest option to perfect. Tape helps.
This doesn't work so well on tunes with complex harmony.
You just made drumming sound even less fun.
As a guitarist I always wondered if drums needed a specific tuning but I can always tell when they’re off. I hope more drummers see this and tune their kits. It’s way more musical.
spoken like a true guitarist...always interfering :)......
If it sounded off, it was probably because whoever tuned them just didn't tune them well lol. You can generally set good intervals and pitches by ear with time. In my experience only 30% of drummers actually bother with tuning them musically or to a certain pitch.
Sounds freaking awesome! It's a matter of taste. No right or wrong about what's better.
I actually like the sound of the drums before you tuned them to the "specified" note, etc, at least on the floor / kick / snare. I agree the top two toms sound better afterward, but I totally agree with your final comment about tuning them to specific notes.
can we all actually appreciate his thumbnail lol
I had a DW Collector's Series Gold for a decade. I just assumed there was something wrong with me because I never liked it. I tried almost every head combination I could think of. I finally gave up and sold it. I got a Gretsch Broadkaster to replace it a couple of years ago. It sounds simply amazing. I wish I had done it on 2009 when I got the DW. Yuk.
I have had a large 9 piece double bass Sonor S-Class Pro thin maple shell kit since 2005. I always tune the bottom head a half step higher than the batter. A wonderful kit and with only one screw per lug the drums are quite light. When lugging around a large kit it really helps.
love that tight snare after the retune. the rack toms also sounded more distinct, but I liked the bass drum and floor tom better before the retune.
I actually really like the way the kit sounded when tuned up other than the kick. A little too much release on it for my taste.
Sonor is easily in my top 3.
The one problem with them is the proprietary hardware that really prevents you from compatibility with other brands.
That chip in the reinforcement ring is "quality control"...
That's the reason why they send him that kit for free
I am a church drummer. These sound AMAZING!
Thanks for the video. I prefer the sounds you got after tuning to the DW pitches. Better, clearer tone all around. I also prefer the heads you used on the toms the second time around, for the same reason.
It gets so difficult with the tune bot. Especially with the snare. I never know if the tuning is with the snare off or on. But the tune bot has an app that makes things a little easier. I’m very picky about tuning. Usually I try to make sure my toms don’t rattle the snare which can be very very hard.
Yeah it can struggle on the higher pitches. Sometimes with the overtones it get hard for the TB to read the frequencies correctly and it just showes you a way higher frequency or simply 400, even though you know youre far away from it. I then try the filter option or muffle a super tiny bit with my finger tip on the head, which often but not always gets the job done. Sometimes you have to restart it or give it some other pitch it can read and then you have to come back to the snare again.
That's the same problem I have. I discovered that the weather plays a big part in how my drums sound.Some days my Toms SING and have fantastic resonance! You don't notice your snare buzz because they sound sooo FUCKING GOOOOD!!!! Boy, the STRESS we drummers have to deal with!! I think it's time to burn one......or two...lol
"I just tune it till it sounds good". That's totally the best way, anything else is a waste of time. LIke pitched drums.
I've had a 6-piece DW Collectors series set for many years now and it has always been outstanding. I went with 8,10,12,14- inch toms. The set cuts through the mix perfectly and is very musical..
Thanks for the video. There are many reasons to keep using suggested tunings. Live venues, recording, using different kits. A bad room changes everything.
Id like to mention that DW finds the note of the shell with no lugs. Adding the lugs drastically changes that note so its all arbitrary pseudoscience marketing lol
This
Agreed.
DW= Dollar$ Wa$ted.
Overhyped, overpriced, over-rated.
Physics 101: a resonating body (drumshell) will lose both resonance and lower harmonics the moment you attach the lugs and other hardware. So the inner drumshell note label is meaningless marketing hype!
I'll absolutely take my TAMA Granstars over any DW kit! Waaay more powerful tone.
Sounds like a drum did a beautiful video about this 🙂
@@Hootcifer yes they did! Thanks for mentioning them
Dw quality control looks pretty bad these days. Especially for the price they ask for they drums
Well I mean they get me to pay 4000$ for a kit I could get for half the price
I got mine used for 1900 pretty much brand new. So you gotta just find the right deal.
@@Sam3103s I've never actually fully owned one lol
I was talking about how you could get good tama kits for that price
My Mapex Armory in Ultramarine looks very similar and sounds pretty good for $1069 brand new think I'll pass on a DW
@@Fl_Broccodile I mean I have a star classic maple too, I’ll tell you this much the quality of the drums are top notch and they’re drums are killer. I still like the sound of my dw more though. Watchu y’all think abt sonor?
I do this with my Tama Starclassic Maple kit. I first had to find the resonant note of the shell. For anyone that wants to try it, here is how I I used sympathetic resonance got the note of the shell:
1. Strip the heads off the drum
2. Hold the shell by resting it on your finger tip(s) with a finger or 2 or 3, depending on the size of the drum, from the inside. The less contact you have with the shell, the better.
3. Play a note on a guitar, keyboard, WHATEVER. Just make sure it's LOUD.
4. While playing the notes, Be cognizant of the resonance of the shell.
5. Play notes until you feel the shell resonate. What ever note it resonates the most, would be the resonant frequency of the shell. Be sure to go up and down past the note yo verify that is resonates the most at that frequency.
6. Get to Tunin
As a guitarist I had no idea drums had tuned notes.....I always just thought in terms of just hearing the tempo, the pattern, the high or low sound of a paticular drum or cymbal, the hardness or softness it is played......glad this opened my ears a bit. Thanks!
Yeah man I’m not a drummer either but my drummers always tuned to “here comes the bride”
Are you a happy person👋👋👋
Well, I think that you did a great job and I appreciate your videos. Being trained musically really helps with the notes and it does make a huge difference. Everyone will have their own opinion about sounds and to me, it does take a lot of practice and patience to get an acoustic drum set tweaked to make it sound better. Also to add, I own several kits, DW Collectors, Mapex Birch over Maple shells, and a couple of electronic drums. My favorite kit, which is the least expensive is the Mapex! They are so well fabricated, tough hardware, beautiful natural finish, and it’s all about installing the right drum heads, and proper tuning. That’s my opinion about it, but I’m sure no one really cares!
Great video. I think also to be factored in is that you are an amazing musician which does also factor in to the sound of the drums and how you hit them.
This is my first video of yours. CRAZY impressed with your musical knowledge
I always kept my drums tune to the DW recommendation, since it’s a timbre of the shell. They sing. I recorded an album at a pretty decent studio with an engineer who has recorded hundreds of bands over decades and the guy has about 20 drum sets. Of all vintages and makes and models not to mention he’s heard every brand of drums of other bands coming through to record. Needless to say after we record it, he was begging me for months to purchase my kit. They really do sound amazing collector series raw maple with a satin maple finish. absolutely nothing but wood and a light varnish. No wrap, no thick lacquer. And the sizes I had built were small and tight. 12 x 9, Tom 14 x 14floor and a 20 x 18. Bass and I had a brass five 5x14 snare.
Also, my biggest regret with that drum head was listening to some idiot at a nightclub, telling me to cut a hole in my bass drum head. Completely killed the sound. I would have guys at clubs mic it from the batter side until I bought an internal mic.
Yeah on my DW bass I have not cut a hole and it sounds great.
I'm running emad batter and aquarian reso and it's the best sounding bass I've ever had
Don't know why but that "Oh! I did it!!" at 8:02 made my day!! haha!!
Love how you make your video. It's captivating. Didn't miss a second 👏🏼👏🏼😁
Loved the tuned in sound. I get the ear leads the way for the drummer, but I liked what DW was pointing towards.
Man forget about those drums, your cymbals sounds great. Not only separately but they mesh so well together
When I tune my drums I snug each lug just enough to get some resonance; then, playing near each lug, I make sure they’re balanced; then I do “CPR” on the head to seat it on the bearing edge. I continue tapping at each lug and tuning in a star pattern until they’re all matched at the note I think sounds good with the kit.
I have tuned several DW kits keeping each drum to the prescribed note. Their standard, store bought kits don’t usually have any rhyme or reason to the note selection, but their custom kits always seem to sound best when tuned to the resonant note.
The only situation where I don’t balance my drumheads is if I know I’ll be playing a Latin set and want to get some spicy timbale sounds out of my toms and snare.
Man those sound so friggin good at the end, and the playing is perfect too!