I got an almost like new Ludwig 5 piece set for $200 with all hardware and throne from a mother who’s son didn’t stay with drums. A friend at a music rental place gave me a full Remo Emperor head set for free as they change them every few rentals. He also gave me two cymbal stands and an upgraded high-hat stand. He also gave me a better bass pedal that was pro quality but no longer in their rental rotation. Then I bought a new set of Ziljian A series for $725 on Facebook. So I am at $925, and it’s all matching shells and cymbals.
I found this video because just today I got a perfect condition, USA Rocker KIT . Not a drum, the kit, with stands , seat, stick bag, and cymbals for $100. Lol This makes me feel even better ! Great video!
Ha! Yeah, it was originally a 12x11, but I cut it down and filled all the holes to drill new ones (it had been from the weird 8-lug per side even though it's a 12 drum era of Ludwig in the mid 80s). So yeah, lots of work on that drum, but I find 6-lugs allow for better low tuning ranges on 12" toms. With the cheap wrap it was doable, and I didn't mind the extra work for a friend of mine. Thanks for the kind words!
Idc how much they cost, sounds phenomenal to me. As I get older I'm starting to care less and less about finishes, badges and brand loyalty. I'd kill for a kit like this, on sound alone.
So cool that you did all these different tuning recordings ! You've got a great thing going on with your channel, it addresses my own pleasure in trying lots of different stuff by buying and selling. Please make more !
Great video! I assembled my kit based on what my ear liked. Tama kick and floor tom, Ludwig rack and PDP snare. They’re all the same color so I didn’t have to deal with the “Frankenstein” look (which isn’t a big deal to me anyway). Great work on the kit and you’ve done much of what I would’ve done (like the red paint in the groove over an inlay). Great video! You’re a great problem solver and that helps us more than you know. 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Love it!!! I've helped customers with finding things to fit their budget. It's so much fun. I've re done and gifted some kits before. The real steal here is the new beats for $100!!! Amazing hats
Another cool idea for aluminium shells, if you ever get another one that is dinged up like that, is sand-blasting it. Gives it a nice even finish that isn't a smudge magnet, hides bumps pretty well.
Dude I bet he is LOVING this kit right now! We all need a friend like you! I'm currently selling off my Gretsch energy to a friend and found a 7 pc Catalina Maple for $500 on Marketplace. Hoping to pick that up this weekend! Marketplace is definitely the way to go. I used a Remo practice pad kit with plastic cymbals when I was first taking lessons and never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be able to have a professional level kit that I saw in magazines. I'm giddy right now :) Killer pocket btw I loved watching you play!
Beautiful tones coming from the rack Tom and especially the floor Tom. Very much enjoyed your narration and thoughts as the project developed. Thanks for the entertainment!
Love it. New gear has gotten laughably expensive in the last few years it seems, more and more folks will be going the well procured used route I think
Great video and a great story, loved it!👍 Vintage style snare stands won’t choke your toms like the newer ones that clamp down. I use a Tama vintage stand that’s made for toms, works great.
I tend to disagree on the 'choking' topic, but always eager to be schooled if I'm wrong. Maybe you or Sir Joel of the Round Thunder will address this...? Gimme SCIENCE. lol
Ha! 'Sir Joel of the Round Thunder'... I need a T-shirt with that on it (insert my wife's eye roll here ;) Not all snare drum stands are the same, but most that I have used have a fairly significant impact on the sustain of a rack tom mounted in one. It was VERY true with this drum/stand combination. I spoke with David about it, and he didn't really care that much. Said if it bothered him he'd address it later. So far he is satisfied. I have a snare stand that has shock absorbing rubber grips on it for the purpose of 'floating' the drum, and it works better for this than the stand I gave David, so your mileage may vary. It's pretty real though, certainly with cheaper stands that tighten to hold the drum snugly. Thanks so much for your comment!
I recently bought a Ludwig CM pro beat kit with the 13x9 tom and also bought the Tamas “The Classic Stand” for it. I did a comparison between that and the Tom mount it came with (hanging from a boom stand), and sonically there is no difference in sustain. The reason I put it on the stand is because it doesn’t bounce and as a bonus it aesthetically looks much better too.
The misconception of b8 needs to die. Paiste b8's are great. Naming a line "b8" as opposed to like "beginner series" totally destroyed the image of b8,especially from older sabians and zildjian as well. They just relegated b8 to their cheap stamped line.they never took the time to make great b8 cymbals as paiste did. I just got a pst7 medium thing 18' today and it sounds great. As bonzleum says,and I totally agree, "paiste knows b8". It's totally true. Cool setup and video explaining the story!
That Innovations thin crash sounds lovely! I've never been a 2002 fan, but I have 18" and 20" Paiste Giant Beat crashes (well... 'multipurpose' cymbals they call them) that are AMAZING, and they're B8 alloy. Yes, Paiste knows B8. If you old enough you might remember Zildjian's first B8 cymbal line, the original AMIR line from around 1984 (later replaced with the ghastly AMIR II line). From what I could tell they basically purchased B8 sheet metal (they were not cast cymbals) and worked them the same way they did their A line. The cost saving was in the purchase of B8 sheet stock, so the cost was very affordable. Unfortunately for them, however, people (like me) actually LIKED them!!! I believe they sold more of them than they anticipated and I am of the opinion that people actually started buying AMIRs instead of A Zildjians, and Zildjian didn't like that, so they discontinued them and introduced a truly nasty sounding line, the AMIR II. That is only my opinion (I have never been told this is true), but I can't think of another reason why they would discontinue what was actually a very useful and successful line of cymbals (rather Paiste-ish, actually) for a trash line. I have owned many original AMIRs, particularly the hi-hats, which are great, tight, musical recording hats. Yes, Sabian making a crap line of B8 cymbals and CALLING them "B8" did nothing to help the perception of the alloy. But I have and play B8 alloy cymbals daily!
Look into TNR Truvibe mounts, they are dense foam pads you add to a snare stand to add more sustain for either a snare or rack tom. It's like $20 a set (3) and they are totally worth it
The only thing I have that I bought new on my set is the throne. I've priced everything out for what I've paid and what it would cost off of sweetwater. I am in it at roughly $2000 for everything. New, it would be roughly $5500-$6000. I couldn't find everything I have new. But a DW performance 3 piece with matching 8x14 snare (it's a 14x24, 9x12 and 16x16 for the drums), nice pedals (axis double for bass, and pearl two leg redline for hats), Sabian and Zildjain B20 cymbals (14 hats, 16 and 18 crash, 20 ride, 18 china, and 10 splash). My cymbal stands are not great (entry level, but they don't tip or slip). Not bad for the money IMO. It is still expensive, but I much prefer looking around and paying a third.
good job and very good sounding drums! if you're going for that vintage sounds and don't really care for the looks, this is great! Also, if you were not going vintage and also trying to skip the assembly/reassembly/refinishing phase, I think the current yamaha stage customs are great for what they cost, you could get a 5 piece set new having payed just a little extra! cheers!
David has actually decided to rewrap the kick to match. We're going to also rub down the rack tom and kick (when it is rewrapped) with 0000 steel wool to cut the gloss to a more satin finish that will better match the factory Black Cortex of the floor tom. He said he didn't care if they matched, but.... ;)
Jellybean kits are so Awesome! I have a collector series jellybean kit that wasn’t put together like that, but put together by DW when they constructed the kit.
Cool man! zoog is a good dude, never met him in person but we've chatted a few times. Btw I love 6 plys too. I don't know why drum snobs turn their noses up at them. Well, I do know but it's not based in reality lol They're great drums.
What tom mounting system was used with the L-rod for the rack tom at 8:43? I'm currently working with a non-standard rack tom that doesn't have any mounting system (or any lugs for that matter), and I really don't want to use a snare stand-like tom stand. I'd rather mount it to a cymbal stand
That was a TIMS suspension mount from Drum Factory Direct with a generic L-rod bracket. The clamp with the L-rod that was mounted to the cymbal stand is one I had that was made by Pacific (they sent these with most of their kits in the early 2000s to mount the 14" rack tom in the floor position). I had a couple of these from various kits I have owned over the years, so just used it for this, though ultimately he went with a vintage snare drum stand (lightweight, robbed very little energy from the tom).
Your are a good friend You "threw in" a lot of stuff. Labor to re-wrap and your labor cutting down the tom and filling in the mount holes, prepping and painting the snare would put this way over $1000.
Thank you for the kind words. You're right, though if one is doing this for themselves they can expend the elbow grease and wind up with such a kit can be had for under $1000. And as an update, David has decided to wrap the bass drum black to match the toms, and we'll rub down both the bass drum and rack tom with 0000 steel wool to cut down the gloss of the black wrap to match the original soft appearance of the factory Black Cortex of the floor tom. That wrap will put his total over $1000 anyway! ;)
Because I drilled the shell myself (not Jon Zoog, who wrapped it). Quite honestly that was the first drum I personally drilled (I normally have Jon do that, but he was helping me out, and I didn't want to abuse his kindness). Bottom line... I didn't think of that! :( And yes... I am a bit of a snare drum buff. Gotta say, though, I love me an Acrolite!! ;)
What would you recommend to put on the inside of a Catalina club mahogany shell I just got these with the 18 kick these things for the money sound killer,was thinking maybe would add a little better sound. They are in the yellow satin flame wrap
Catalina clubs have unfinished interiors, yes? Raw mahogany really soaks up high frequencies (a softer wood than maple with a more coarse grain). This is part and parcel to the sound of vintage drums, most notably, perhaps, old Slingerland Radio Kings. It's a sound, and I don't recommend you seal the interior or that will change. With that in mind, and assuming you want a sound something like in this video (I'm guessing that's why you're asking?), anything you can do to increase the HF a touch will balance the tone a bit more, so an impact pad on the batter side (where the beater(s) lands) will help as will NON-specialized bass drum heads (so avoid Super Kicks or EMADs or anything else with built in muffling.) Single or dual ply head for batter, single ply for the front. Tune both heads just above wrinkling (with a thumb pressed into the center of each head) and then back off tension just a tiny bit -- this is a good start. Muffle to taste, but I would recommend only as much as needed to make the batter articulate (let the front head resonate freely to start... a mic inside the drum will hear mostly batter). A mic can be used out front the drum to pick up as much body/tone as you want. Adjust to taste. I hope this is helpful to you. Thanks for being here!
As you know that kit sounds lovely, thanks for sharing. Dunno if you've already addressed this, but what mics are you using as well as any other links of the chain you care to disclose?
From looking at the video the mics are 57 on top of snare with Heil PR31 underneath, Audix i5 on toms, and home-brew large diaphragm condenser on hi-hat (in figure 8 pattern). Not sure what's on the kick and overheads (I'm constantly switching mics for various recordings). Most likely D112 inside the kick, maybe a Beat52. Outside would likely be a large diaphragm condenser of some kind (even cheap ones often sound very good/useful out front a kick drum). Overheads were probably Ehrlund EHR-Ms (an odd mic with triangular diaphragm.. they're not cheap, but they sound fantastic and quite natural). Hard to tell, though, but certainly condenser. Room mic(s) would have been ribbons, probably, likely Samar AL95 as I was using those a lot on rooms a year ago, IIRC. Signal path is nothing major -- I hadn't brought any real studio gear into that space yet as I was just getting up and running there. Probably just the preamps on my Midas M32R mixer, which don't really add anything, but are very clear and accurate. Dynamic mics on drums tends to be a round tone anyway, and modeled plug-ins can go a reasonable way to adding additional interest to the tone. I do prefer my vintage preamps, though! Just didn't use them for this video, I'm certain. Thanks so much for your question!!
@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for the reply :) Along with drums mics are a favorite of mine, so that's a very appreciated breakdown. If you're considering doing any video(s) on mics you certainly get my 'yes, please'.
The kit sounds terrific. You must have a real good set of mic's. What heads and tunings did you use?. I'm looking for that type of sound from my Ludwig's
The heads were what I had on my shelf, taken from various drums I have purchased over the years. I believe they were coated Emperors on top and no-name single ply smooth white heads on the bottom (I remember those bottom heads came off 12 and 16 toms that were unbranded and very cheap. I couldn't do anything with the shells, so pulled the heads and hardware to keep. I remember putting the heads on these toms, since budget was a consideration (I didn't charge him for the heads as they were used, though in good shape). As for tuning, I didn't log anything with a TuneBot or such device. I tune by ear, but basically tune tom batters a little below midrange and tune the bottom heads a couple of steps above midrange -- find the spot where the tone is complimentary between the heads. I often detune one or two lugs on the floor tom to get a little feeling of a 'bend' in the tone (and often reduces the sustain of such a large drum to better match the rack tom(s)). Kick is basically putting the head on finger tight (both), press a thumb in the middle of the head and take each lug up a quarter to half turn until the wrinkles disappear, then drop each lug a quarter turn. Front head I will often detune every other lug, so every other lug has different tension on it -- to significantly, just a quarter to half turn each. This seems to minimize the resonance a tad for a little better control. I like the front head to resonate (you usually don't 'hear' it, but it does give a feeling of plushness, for lack of a better word... just fuller, not so 'snappy' or abrupt. More natural. I rarely use much muffling inside a kick... usually a 1" thick piece of foam (packing or soft acoustic foam) that is a square the depth of the kick, so it just lightly touches each head. The internal mic gets the attack, and the external the body/tone. Hope that helps. Thanks so much for being here!
Where did you find these drums? I thought I heard you say the word market place, where's that? I'm possibly looking for a 14x24 inch bass drum. I use to play a 24 inch years ago, so I was thinking of trying to find a cheap used one to see if I want to go back to a 24 inch bass again. I don't want to put much money into it in case I don't like it. And I only want a 14 inch wide drum, I've had and hate wide bass drums.
Facebook Marketplace. If you're on FB it's selectable at the top of your homepage (looks like a little building). And I agree on the 14" depth of a 24" bass drum... my FAVORITE!! You'll probably find a good one if you're not in too much of a hurry. FB Marketplace and Craigslist are great for orphan drums. Might also look up Music Go Round (a chain of musical pawn shops, basically... you can purchase online or in person if there is one near you). Also Guitar Center used listings are sometimes a good place to find things. And, of course, there's always eBay and Reverb, though usually the deals aren't quite so good there. Hope that is helpful. Good luck with the search!
Hey man! I think I live fairly close to you... I'm an audio engineer and mediocre drummer living in Flower Mound! I'm wondering if there's a way for us to get in touch? I've been really enjoying and very impressed with your videos!
Oh yes... I do quite a significant bit of each, though I try to create a balanced and somewhat natural sound and not be too processed sounding. No amount of either will make a poor drum sound good, however, so the instrument and the tuning have to be solid first. Thank you so much for your kind comment!!
Good eye! Yes, those are i5s on toms. A more refined 57 in that it sounds more polite on all the stuff you might use a 57 on. Great tom mic, and affordable.
@@drumdotpizza For some tracks !! I ended up doing most of it myself, but I would consider hiring you for some tracks next time, if you do that sort of thing. Great channel.
This maybe kinda " Off Subject", but what's your opinion on The Rocker Kits from Ludwig , and have you ever owned or played them? Thanks for your interesting and informative videos too!
Yes, I have owned a couple different Rocker kits. The earliest ones (1982-83-ish?) had black/white badges, but used the same classic lugs as their regular classic line of drums. The shells were made with the same veneers as the classic series with two distinctions: 1) toms and snares were 4 ply, not 6 (kick was still heavy 6 ply), and 2) each ply was often made up of more than one piece of wood (more than one seam in a single ply). So a 4 ply shell could be made from 8 or more pieces of veneer first glued together horizontally and then formed into layers in the shell mold. This allowed Ludwig to make shells from remaining pieces of veneers that were cut-off from production of their top line drums -- saving money by using the scraps leftover from other production. This doesn't necessarily mean that they were bad drums, however. Some were quite good sounding. The increased numbers of veneer pieces meant the shells generally didn't vibrate as well as shells made from whole sheets of veneer, but that only really means the shells didn't vibrate as easily, and if you have watched my video on mass in drum shells, you know that such a characteristic is a judgement call as to whether that is good or bad. I will also say that some of the Rocker shells I have played (or dismantled and thumped, really) produced dissonant poly tones (more than one note from the shell). This is odd, but isn't totally unusual for cheaper drum lines, and is, I'm guessing, a factor of the multiple piece construction. Still, I have played some that sound absolutely fantastic (I have a 5" Rocker snare drum right now (an early one.. black/white badge with 8 classic 'bowtie' lugs and natural interior finish) that sounds fantastic!). The earlier ones had natural interior finish, like the pro level drums, and clean seams (often 2 seams). Later they were less careful with the gluing of veneer sheets and covered the visible interior ply seams with a red fleck tone paint. My drum builder buddy, Jon Zoog, sanded that interior paint off of one, and the inner ply looked like a jigsaw puzzle of veneer pieces... it was visibly a mess -- BUT THE DRUM SOUNDED AMAZING!!! I seriously almost bought it from him. So... you just gotta try them to see if they're good or not. The quality varied significantly because of their piecemeal construction, but there are gems out there... you just gotta test them out to know.
He has actually decided to wrap the bass drum black to match the toms and to rub down the rack tom (and bass drum, when it's rewrapped) with 0000 steel wool to dull the finish to the original Black Cortex of the floor tom. Will have to paint the red stripes in the hoops black too, but it'll look nice when done, and all matchy matchy. ;)
If I understand your question correctly the large hole for Ludwig's 'modular' tom mount was for mounting the tom -- Pearl style (large tube penetrating the shell to the inside of the drum).
I'll be doing this for my nephew once I get the okay from my sister to have this calamity in their house. He's like 13 and if I started when I was his age, I might not be so terrible still.
That's wonderful of you to do that for him! I wish you had been my uncle when I was younger (I thought my parents would NEVER get me a drum set, and when they did is wasn't anything like this one! ;) FWIW, I would focus on a quality snare drum and ride cymbal as those are two of the most expressive parts of a drum kit (at least the way I play). Cheaper rides often seem to have only one dynamic, and usually don't sound good even then. A quality, expressive ride is critical, IMO, to developing control for expressive playing. Same for snare drum (I commonly ghost during grooves and do little ruffs and short rolls now and again to spice things up so long as it doesn't interrupt the flow). Cheaper drums and cymbals don't respond well enough to really learn such techniques. Thanks so much for your comment!!
I gotta disagree... quite a different animal than vintage, thick 6-ply Ludwig. I've recorded many SC sets, BTW, and they're not bad at all. A great improvement that can be done to them is to seal the interior wood (all that I have seen have been raw/unfinished). A couple coats of aTung oil blend (lather it on, let it soak in for 15 minutes, wipe off excess and let dry before next coat) is great for this. A couple of thin coats of nitrocellulose lacquer works well too, and dries almost immediately. Not looking for a thick seal or shiny finish, just seal the wood, and higher frequencies will remain in the drum a tad longer before being thoroughly diffused, yielding a livelier tone. Raw wood just soaks up the HF, and leaving wood unfinished is a cost saver commonly used for production of cost effective drums. Thanks so much for being here and chiming in!!
![My Ludwig Black Beauty LIVES despite being destroyed in a house fire 35 years ago [Show & Tell #2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7vP6xjge4iQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I got an almost like new Ludwig 5 piece set for $200 with all hardware and throne from a mother who’s son didn’t stay with drums. A friend at a music rental place gave me a full Remo Emperor head set for free as they change them every few rentals. He also gave me two cymbal stands and an upgraded high-hat stand. He also gave me a better bass pedal that was pro quality but no longer in their rental rotation. Then I bought a new set of Ziljian A series for $725 on Facebook. So I am at $925, and it’s all matching shells and cymbals.
Well done!!
Currently getting a 7 pc Gretsch Catalina Maple for $500. Marketplace has incredible deals that's for sure. How you liking that Ludwig man?
Man your friend is the luckiest guy. Great job with everything.
He's a good man! And I'm always happy to help people with drum stuff!!
I found this video because just today I got a perfect condition, USA Rocker KIT . Not a drum, the kit, with stands , seat, stick bag, and cymbals for $100. Lol This makes me feel even better ! Great video!
That rack tom sounds great, even after all it has been through!
Ha! Yeah, it was originally a 12x11, but I cut it down and filled all the holes to drill new ones (it had been from the weird 8-lug per side even though it's a 12 drum era of Ludwig in the mid 80s). So yeah, lots of work on that drum, but I find 6-lugs allow for better low tuning ranges on 12" toms. With the cheap wrap it was doable, and I didn't mind the extra work for a friend of mine.
Thanks for the kind words!
Idc how much they cost, sounds phenomenal to me.
As I get older I'm starting to care less and less about finishes, badges and brand loyalty. I'd kill for a kit like this, on sound alone.
So cool that you did all these different tuning recordings !
You've got a great thing going on with your channel, it addresses my own pleasure in trying lots of different stuff by buying and selling. Please make more !
You’re a great content creator and an even better friend. I love the topics you choose to discuss and feel fortunate to have a view into your world!
Great video!
I assembled my kit based on what my ear liked. Tama kick and floor tom, Ludwig rack and PDP snare.
They’re all the same color so I didn’t have to deal with the “Frankenstein” look (which isn’t a big deal to me anyway).
Great work on the kit and you’ve done much of what I would’ve done (like the red paint in the groove over an inlay).
Great video! You’re a great problem solver and that helps us more than you know. 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Thanks so much for your comments! I always hope to be helpful.
Love it!!! I've helped customers with finding things to fit their budget. It's so much fun. I've re done and gifted some kits before. The real steal here is the new beats for $100!!! Amazing hats
I totally agree!
Don't sleep on that Armand...
@@CarlosAnglada😅 2:06
Another cool idea for aluminium shells, if you ever get another one that is dinged up like that, is sand-blasting it. Gives it a nice even finish that isn't a smudge magnet, hides bumps pretty well.
Great idea! I will have to look into the cost of that (I don't have the equipment). Will definitely keep that in mind, however, thank you!
Dude I bet he is LOVING this kit right now! We all need a friend like you! I'm currently selling off my Gretsch energy to a friend and found a 7 pc Catalina Maple for $500 on Marketplace. Hoping to pick that up this weekend! Marketplace is definitely the way to go.
I used a Remo practice pad kit with plastic cymbals when I was first taking lessons and never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be able to have a professional level kit that I saw in magazines. I'm giddy right now :)
Killer pocket btw I loved watching you play!
Another cool video, kit sounds great! Thanks Joel.
Thank YOU!!
Joel that’s an awesome kit. Great job on building it for your friend
Beautiful tones coming from the rack Tom and especially the floor Tom. Very much enjoyed your narration and thoughts as the project developed. Thanks for the entertainment!
Kit sounds fantastic
That kit sounds sweet!
Love it. New gear has gotten laughably expensive in the last few years it seems, more and more folks will be going the well procured used route I think
Not really. It is cheaper than in the 1960s adjusted for inflation.
Marketplace is definitely the way to go right now.
Love it ! Old Luddies rule.🤩
Great sound kit!!
Great video and a great story, loved it!👍 Vintage style snare stands won’t choke your toms like the newer ones that clamp down. I use a Tama vintage stand that’s made for toms, works great.
I tend to disagree on the 'choking' topic, but always eager to be schooled if I'm wrong. Maybe you or Sir Joel of the Round Thunder will address this...? Gimme SCIENCE. lol
Ha! 'Sir Joel of the Round Thunder'... I need a T-shirt with that on it (insert my wife's eye roll here ;)
Not all snare drum stands are the same, but most that I have used have a fairly significant impact on the sustain of a rack tom mounted in one. It was VERY true with this drum/stand combination. I spoke with David about it, and he didn't really care that much. Said if it bothered him he'd address it later. So far he is satisfied.
I have a snare stand that has shock absorbing rubber grips on it for the purpose of 'floating' the drum, and it works better for this than the stand I gave David, so your mileage may vary.
It's pretty real though, certainly with cheaper stands that tighten to hold the drum snugly.
Thanks so much for your comment!
I recently bought a Ludwig CM pro beat kit with the 13x9 tom and also bought the Tamas “The Classic Stand” for it. I did a comparison between that and the Tom mount it came with (hanging from a boom stand), and sonically there is no difference in sustain. The reason I put it on the stand is because it doesn’t bounce and as a bonus it aesthetically looks much better too.
I hope that guy appreciates it! Sounds killer.
He does (and he was tickled I actually pieced this video together... I didn't tell him till I posted it).
The misconception of b8 needs to die. Paiste b8's are great. Naming a line "b8" as opposed to like "beginner series" totally destroyed the image of b8,especially from older sabians and zildjian as well. They just relegated b8 to their cheap stamped line.they never took the time to make great b8 cymbals as paiste did. I just got a pst7 medium thing 18' today and it sounds great. As bonzleum says,and I totally agree, "paiste knows b8". It's totally true. Cool setup and video explaining the story!
That Innovations thin crash sounds lovely! I've never been a 2002 fan, but I have 18" and 20" Paiste Giant Beat crashes (well... 'multipurpose' cymbals they call them) that are AMAZING, and they're B8 alloy. Yes, Paiste knows B8.
If you old enough you might remember Zildjian's first B8 cymbal line, the original AMIR line from around 1984 (later replaced with the ghastly AMIR II line). From what I could tell they basically purchased B8 sheet metal (they were not cast cymbals) and worked them the same way they did their A line. The cost saving was in the purchase of B8 sheet stock, so the cost was very affordable. Unfortunately for them, however, people (like me) actually LIKED them!!! I believe they sold more of them than they anticipated and I am of the opinion that people actually started buying AMIRs instead of A Zildjians, and Zildjian didn't like that, so they discontinued them and introduced a truly nasty sounding line, the AMIR II. That is only my opinion (I have never been told this is true), but I can't think of another reason why they would discontinue what was actually a very useful and successful line of cymbals (rather Paiste-ish, actually) for a trash line. I have owned many original AMIRs, particularly the hi-hats, which are great, tight, musical recording hats.
Yes, Sabian making a crap line of B8 cymbals and CALLING them "B8" did nothing to help the perception of the alloy. But I have and play B8 alloy cymbals daily!
Great work! I actually think it looks kinda cool with the red kick
Drums sound great!
The drums look and sound really good 👍 👍
very nice kit the sound is gold and have always like the acralites
Acrolite is a favorite. Good used ones are easily the best deal in snare drums!
Fantastic great job...would like to find some old ludwigs myself and do that...👍
That floor tom is killer
Look into TNR Truvibe mounts, they are dense foam pads you add to a snare stand to add more sustain for either a snare or rack tom. It's like $20 a set (3) and they are totally worth it
The only thing I have that I bought new on my set is the throne. I've priced everything out for what I've paid and what it would cost off of sweetwater. I am in it at roughly $2000 for everything. New, it would be roughly $5500-$6000. I couldn't find everything I have new. But a DW performance 3 piece with matching 8x14 snare (it's a 14x24, 9x12 and 16x16 for the drums), nice pedals (axis double for bass, and pearl two leg redline for hats), Sabian and Zildjain B20 cymbals (14 hats, 16 and 18 crash, 20 ride, 18 china, and 10 splash). My cymbal stands are not great (entry level, but they don't tip or slip). Not bad for the money IMO. It is still expensive, but I much prefer looking around and paying a third.
TNR Isolation Mounts work nicely for snare stand Mounted Rack toms
good job and very good sounding drums! if you're going for that vintage sounds and don't really care for the looks, this is great! Also, if you were not going vintage and also trying to skip the assembly/reassembly/refinishing phase, I think the current yamaha stage customs are great for what they cost, you could get a 5 piece set new having payed just a little extra! cheers!
Thank you for that!
These sound fantastic! I just want the bass drum to match ;). Great work!
David has actually decided to rewrap the kick to match. We're going to also rub down the rack tom and kick (when it is rewrapped) with 0000 steel wool to cut the gloss to a more satin finish that will better match the factory Black Cortex of the floor tom.
He said he didn't care if they matched, but.... ;)
Jellybean kits are so Awesome! I have a collector series jellybean kit that wasn’t put together like that, but put together by DW when they constructed the kit.
Hreat sounding kit! I have and use the same hats and ride.
Cool man! zoog is a good dude, never met him in person but we've chatted a few times.
Btw I love 6 plys too. I don't know why drum snobs turn their noses up at them. Well, I do know but it's not based in reality lol They're great drums.
My favs!!
Acrolite sounds great 👍
What tom mounting system was used with the L-rod for the rack tom at 8:43? I'm currently working with a non-standard rack tom that doesn't have any mounting system (or any lugs for that matter), and I really don't want to use a snare stand-like tom stand. I'd rather mount it to a cymbal stand
That was a TIMS suspension mount from Drum Factory Direct with a generic L-rod bracket. The clamp with the L-rod that was mounted to the cymbal stand is one I had that was made by Pacific (they sent these with most of their kits in the early 2000s to mount the 14" rack tom in the floor position). I had a couple of these from various kits I have owned over the years, so just used it for this, though ultimately he went with a vintage snare drum stand (lightweight, robbed very little energy from the tom).
Your are a good friend You "threw in" a lot of stuff. Labor to re-wrap and your labor cutting down the tom and filling in the mount holes, prepping and painting the snare would put this way over $1000.
Thank you for the kind words.
You're right, though if one is doing this for themselves they can expend the elbow grease and wind up with such a kit can be had for under $1000.
And as an update, David has decided to wrap the bass drum black to match the toms, and we'll rub down both the bass drum and rack tom with 0000 steel wool to cut down the gloss of the black wrap to match the original soft appearance of the factory Black Cortex of the floor tom. That wrap will put his total over $1000 anyway! ;)
Nice!
Thanks!
Yo! I do these sorts of drum work projects as well! Boy Oh Boy! The stories I have! Cheers!!!
Holy cow! A "Le Studio" t-shirt!
Good eye! So many great records were recorded there. I really wish I could have recorded there just once before it was demolished... :(
@@drumdotpizza I grew up in Montreal so it holds a special place in my heart. And yeah, the music! 💖🤘🏽
@@robburgess4556 Cool! Did you ever get to work there?
@@drumdotpizza No, unfortunately. 😞
8:51 nice set. However, I don't understand why the overlap of the wrap isn't under the lugs.....🤔
9:17 Please turn around and hey, look....!!!! 🤣
Because I drilled the shell myself (not Jon Zoog, who wrapped it). Quite honestly that was the first drum I personally drilled (I normally have Jon do that, but he was helping me out, and I didn't want to abuse his kindness). Bottom line... I didn't think of that! :(
And yes... I am a bit of a snare drum buff. Gotta say, though, I love me an Acrolite!! ;)
What would you recommend to put on the inside of a Catalina club mahogany shell I just got these with the 18 kick these things for the money sound killer,was thinking maybe would add a little better sound. They are in the yellow satin flame wrap
Catalina clubs have unfinished interiors, yes? Raw mahogany really soaks up high frequencies (a softer wood than maple with a more coarse grain). This is part and parcel to the sound of vintage drums, most notably, perhaps, old Slingerland Radio Kings. It's a sound, and I don't recommend you seal the interior or that will change. With that in mind, and assuming you want a sound something like in this video (I'm guessing that's why you're asking?), anything you can do to increase the HF a touch will balance the tone a bit more, so an impact pad on the batter side (where the beater(s) lands) will help as will NON-specialized bass drum heads (so avoid Super Kicks or EMADs or anything else with built in muffling.) Single or dual ply head for batter, single ply for the front. Tune both heads just above wrinkling (with a thumb pressed into the center of each head) and then back off tension just a tiny bit -- this is a good start. Muffle to taste, but I would recommend only as much as needed to make the batter articulate (let the front head resonate freely to start... a mic inside the drum will hear mostly batter). A mic can be used out front the drum to pick up as much body/tone as you want.
Adjust to taste. I hope this is helpful to you. Thanks for being here!
As you know that kit sounds lovely, thanks for sharing. Dunno if you've already addressed this, but what mics are you using as well as any other links of the chain you care to disclose?
From looking at the video the mics are 57 on top of snare with Heil PR31 underneath, Audix i5 on toms, and home-brew large diaphragm condenser on hi-hat (in figure 8 pattern). Not sure what's on the kick and overheads (I'm constantly switching mics for various recordings). Most likely D112 inside the kick, maybe a Beat52. Outside would likely be a large diaphragm condenser of some kind (even cheap ones often sound very good/useful out front a kick drum). Overheads were probably Ehrlund EHR-Ms (an odd mic with triangular diaphragm.. they're not cheap, but they sound fantastic and quite natural). Hard to tell, though, but certainly condenser. Room mic(s) would have been ribbons, probably, likely Samar AL95 as I was using those a lot on rooms a year ago, IIRC.
Signal path is nothing major -- I hadn't brought any real studio gear into that space yet as I was just getting up and running there. Probably just the preamps on my Midas M32R mixer, which don't really add anything, but are very clear and accurate. Dynamic mics on drums tends to be a round tone anyway, and modeled plug-ins can go a reasonable way to adding additional interest to the tone.
I do prefer my vintage preamps, though! Just didn't use them for this video, I'm certain.
Thanks so much for your question!!
@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for the reply :) Along with drums mics are a favorite of mine, so that's a very appreciated breakdown. If you're considering doing any video(s) on mics you certainly get my 'yes, please'.
The kit sounds terrific. You must have a real good set of mic's. What heads and tunings did you use?. I'm looking for that type of sound from my Ludwig's
The heads were what I had on my shelf, taken from various drums I have purchased over the years. I believe they were coated Emperors on top and no-name single ply smooth white heads on the bottom (I remember those bottom heads came off 12 and 16 toms that were unbranded and very cheap. I couldn't do anything with the shells, so pulled the heads and hardware to keep. I remember putting the heads on these toms, since budget was a consideration (I didn't charge him for the heads as they were used, though in good shape).
As for tuning, I didn't log anything with a TuneBot or such device. I tune by ear, but basically tune tom batters a little below midrange and tune the bottom heads a couple of steps above midrange -- find the spot where the tone is complimentary between the heads. I often detune one or two lugs on the floor tom to get a little feeling of a 'bend' in the tone (and often reduces the sustain of such a large drum to better match the rack tom(s)).
Kick is basically putting the head on finger tight (both), press a thumb in the middle of the head and take each lug up a quarter to half turn until the wrinkles disappear, then drop each lug a quarter turn. Front head I will often detune every other lug, so every other lug has different tension on it -- to significantly, just a quarter to half turn each. This seems to minimize the resonance a tad for a little better control. I like the front head to resonate (you usually don't 'hear' it, but it does give a feeling of plushness, for lack of a better word... just fuller, not so 'snappy' or abrupt. More natural.
I rarely use much muffling inside a kick... usually a 1" thick piece of foam (packing or soft acoustic foam) that is a square the depth of the kick, so it just lightly touches each head. The internal mic gets the attack, and the external the body/tone.
Hope that helps. Thanks so much for being here!
@@drumdotpizza Thank you for the reply. I appreciate your information on tuning ( tensioning). Keep On Rockin'!
Where did you find these drums? I thought I heard you say the word market place, where's that? I'm possibly looking for a 14x24 inch bass drum. I use to play a 24 inch years ago, so I was thinking of trying to find a cheap used one to see if I want to go back to a 24 inch bass again. I don't want to put much money into it in case I don't like it. And I only want a 14 inch wide drum, I've had and hate wide bass drums.
Facebook Marketplace. If you're on FB it's selectable at the top of your homepage (looks like a little building).
And I agree on the 14" depth of a 24" bass drum... my FAVORITE!! You'll probably find a good one if you're not in too much of a hurry. FB Marketplace and Craigslist are great for orphan drums. Might also look up Music Go Round (a chain of musical pawn shops, basically... you can purchase online or in person if there is one near you). Also Guitar Center used listings are sometimes a good place to find things. And, of course, there's always eBay and Reverb, though usually the deals aren't quite so good there. Hope that is helpful. Good luck with the search!
@@drumdotpizza thanks for the info.
Hey man! I think I live fairly close to you... I'm an audio engineer and mediocre drummer living in Flower Mound! I'm wondering if there's a way for us to get in touch? I've been really enjoying and very impressed with your videos!
Yeah, I'm not too far from you. Feel free to reach out to me on Facebook (drumdotpizza). Cheers!
Man those sounds so full and warm. 🥵 But still have some definition and punch to them. Eq/compression?
Oh yes... I do quite a significant bit of each, though I try to create a balanced and somewhat natural sound and not be too processed sounding. No amount of either will make a poor drum sound good, however, so the instrument and the tuning have to be solid first.
Thank you so much for your kind comment!!
Lh are you in Dallas Texas? I heard you mention "Dallas Drums"
I'm in the north Texas area, yes. Jon Zoog is a good dude! Very skilled working with drums too!
@@drumdotpizza cool, I'm out of San Antonio 👍
Nice name
What is marketplace? Thank you. Great job on the kit. Sounds wonderful.
Its facebook.
@@joek81981 Oh, duh on my part. Thank you.
Are those Audix i5s on the toms? I'm digging their character.
Good eye! Yes, those are i5s on toms. A more refined 57 in that it sounds more polite on all the stuff you might use a 57 on. Great tom mic, and affordable.
Awesome sounding drums. Can I hire you ?
For....??
@@drumdotpizza For some tracks !! I ended up doing most of it myself, but I would consider hiring you for some tracks next time, if you do that sort of thing. Great channel.
This maybe kinda " Off Subject", but what's your opinion on The Rocker Kits from Ludwig , and have you ever owned or played them? Thanks for your interesting and informative videos too!
Yes, I have owned a couple different Rocker kits. The earliest ones (1982-83-ish?) had black/white badges, but used the same classic lugs as their regular classic line of drums. The shells were made with the same veneers as the classic series with two distinctions: 1) toms and snares were 4 ply, not 6 (kick was still heavy 6 ply), and 2) each ply was often made up of more than one piece of wood (more than one seam in a single ply). So a 4 ply shell could be made from 8 or more pieces of veneer first glued together horizontally and then formed into layers in the shell mold. This allowed Ludwig to make shells from remaining pieces of veneers that were cut-off from production of their top line drums -- saving money by using the scraps leftover from other production.
This doesn't necessarily mean that they were bad drums, however. Some were quite good sounding. The increased numbers of veneer pieces meant the shells generally didn't vibrate as well as shells made from whole sheets of veneer, but that only really means the shells didn't vibrate as easily, and if you have watched my video on mass in drum shells, you know that such a characteristic is a judgement call as to whether that is good or bad.
I will also say that some of the Rocker shells I have played (or dismantled and thumped, really) produced dissonant poly tones (more than one note from the shell). This is odd, but isn't totally unusual for cheaper drum lines, and is, I'm guessing, a factor of the multiple piece construction. Still, I have played some that sound absolutely fantastic (I have a 5" Rocker snare drum right now (an early one.. black/white badge with 8 classic 'bowtie' lugs and natural interior finish) that sounds fantastic!).
The earlier ones had natural interior finish, like the pro level drums, and clean seams (often 2 seams). Later they were less careful with the gluing of veneer sheets and covered the visible interior ply seams with a red fleck tone paint. My drum builder buddy, Jon Zoog, sanded that interior paint off of one, and the inner ply looked like a jigsaw puzzle of veneer pieces... it was visibly a mess -- BUT THE DRUM SOUNDED AMAZING!!! I seriously almost bought it from him.
So... you just gotta try them to see if they're good or not. The quality varied significantly because of their piecemeal construction, but there are gems out there... you just gotta test them out to know.
@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for responding and informing me about those particular drums!
the armand ride for a 100 bucks is also a steel
I was pleased with it (kinda wish I had it myself... a very 'crashable' ride).
I’m subscribing!!!
Thank you!
Joel, who is your friend that sold you those cymbals for $100 each? I'm looking for a crash for my kit but don't want to spend $400 for a new one.
You can find him on Reverb.com under Carrington Restoration. He's in Frisco, TX. Good dude!
the next thing to do is wrap this in some contact paper and shine those lugs and hardware. It will look like a 4000 dollar drumset!
He has actually decided to wrap the bass drum black to match the toms and to rub down the rack tom (and bass drum, when it's rewrapped) with 0000 steel wool to dull the finish to the original Black Cortex of the floor tom.
Will have to paint the red stripes in the hoops black too, but it'll look nice when done, and all matchy matchy. ;)
I envy the US for the abundance of Acrolites... In Germany you cant get an Acrolite under 500€ basically...
This is my kinda candyshop
What was the modular Tom hole used for?
If I understand your question correctly the large hole for Ludwig's 'modular' tom mount was for mounting the tom -- Pearl style (large tube penetrating the shell to the inside of the drum).
@@drumdotpizza cool, thanks a lot for the answer 💪🏻 really love your videos btw
not possible in EU XD
I'll be doing this for my nephew once I get the okay from my sister to have this calamity in their house. He's like 13 and if I started when I was his age, I might not be so terrible still.
That's wonderful of you to do that for him! I wish you had been my uncle when I was younger (I thought my parents would NEVER get me a drum set, and when they did is wasn't anything like this one! ;)
FWIW, I would focus on a quality snare drum and ride cymbal as those are two of the most expressive parts of a drum kit (at least the way I play). Cheaper rides often seem to have only one dynamic, and usually don't sound good even then. A quality, expressive ride is critical, IMO, to developing control for expressive playing. Same for snare drum (I commonly ghost during grooves and do little ruffs and short rolls now and again to spice things up so long as it doesn't interrupt the flow). Cheaper drums and cymbals don't respond well enough to really learn such techniques.
Thanks so much for your comment!!
Yamaha stage custom. Done
I gotta disagree... quite a different animal than vintage, thick 6-ply Ludwig.
I've recorded many SC sets, BTW, and they're not bad at all. A great improvement that can be done to them is to seal the interior wood (all that I have seen have been raw/unfinished). A couple coats of aTung oil blend (lather it on, let it soak in for 15 minutes, wipe off excess and let dry before next coat) is great for this. A couple of thin coats of nitrocellulose lacquer works well too, and dries almost immediately. Not looking for a thick seal or shiny finish, just seal the wood, and higher frequencies will remain in the drum a tad longer before being thoroughly diffused, yielding a livelier tone. Raw wood just soaks up the HF, and leaving wood unfinished is a cost saver commonly used for production of cost effective drums.
Thanks so much for being here and chiming in!!
I can buy a new killer drum set for like 700$
They sound like drums. Cheap drums ven be made to sound decent. Cheap cymbals can't sound good. Heads and tuning.