the best thing about demoknight is getting four eyelander heads and swapping to grenades and stickies so you just have 210 hp 315 overheal and near scout move speed
@@RonZ234 You can only do it a certain way - get the heads with the eyelander, change your loadout to stock demo + eyelander _before_ you enter spawn (make sure you have the kill-after-changing-loadout setting disabled), then enter spawn and touch the resupply cabinet.
@@zypherion516 Odin is a complete detriment to his team. When you look at his actual stats, he takes too much of the heals, deals very little damage, and controls very little space when viewing his demos. Just because you see 5 highlights of him on tantf2 or whatever doesn't mean he's actually doing well. The only reason they are winning etf2l's middle divisions is because their other combat players are simply better, and mid-level teams are just bad and don't know how to play against him. Put a demoknight against high invite players in a 6s match and lets see how far they get. (Spoiler, they get literally nothing done and get rolled to hell and back)
I swear every single demo I see in pubs is a demoknight or hybridknight, it's like the sticky launcher is some obscure unlock instead of the stock weapon.
as someone who mainly play demoknight/hybridknight and have sunk most of my time in the game into this playstyle - I just think stickies are lame. Like, yes, they do insane amounts of damage and offer you stupid amounts of area control, but I personally find any playstyle surrounding them boring. Spamming? Snoozefest. Setting up traps? Better, but gets old quick. Shields, on another hand, provide you a lot of utility in exchange for losing damage in the form of one the best mobility tools in the game, damage resists are just a cherry on top. Sure, sticky jumping gets you really far and fast too, but it costs health, and it's much tougher to use as an escape tool because you need both health and ammo in the clip in order to do so, while shields just require the full meter. tl;dr shields are more fun despite being a significantly weaker option, which is why more casual players tend to lean towards them
@@waker_link I am a demomain too, shields are neat but they get boring for me, with the cooldown and jank involved. I've played 600 hours of demo and 90% of it was with stickies. It's probably one of my favorite weapons in all of gaming because there's just so much ingrained in it. Sticky jumping, Comboing with pipes, traps, airdets, outsmarting my opponent by predicting where they're going, charging stickies to snipe, getting rid of m2 happy pyros, building an impassable area for the enemy so i can reload or heal, multikills, kritzkrieg, etc. It's a dopamine swiss army knife. Of course, I understand I'm in the minority here, but I think so many people hear "winbombs" or "m1+m2" and just write it off as an immoral op weapon or boring win button without exploring the weapon further.
I play hybridknight most of the time because pub medics are ultra rare and the resistances/dash let me play like a reckless moron in the same way a beamed demo can
For a quick summary: Demoman good, Demoknight worse. Demoman hard to counter, Demoknight easy to counter. Demoman consistent, Demoknight inconsistent. If you’re good at Demoknight, you could do even better at Demoman.
as a medic main, i totally agree and have thought this for a while. another thing i think is understated here is losing your synergy with medic. ubering/kritzing a demo is objectively the scariest thing in a match of tf2. swapping to demoknight means you will get less attention from you medics, less buffs, ubers, etc.
That's not janky hit registration. That's visual lag compensation. Let me explain exactly what happens: Each player experiences a delay in both their actions and the apparent results equalling the sum total of roundtrip pings from client to server to (other) client. So while you're pressing buttons and being alive, you may already be dead, the message just hasn't arrived yet over the Internet. This also produces the infamous "got shot after going behind corner" effect familiar from Counter-Strike. The ground truth is that you got shot, but because your client doesn't know about it until later, it lets you move behind the corner and then unexpectedly it seems to you totally unfair to die. But this is an illusion: You're seeing on your screen what your client is EXPECTING to happen. Other players' inputs may have already invalidated the scenario you're seeing on your screen, on the server; the message what ACTUALLY happened arrives late, and the result seems ridiculous, because your client is trying to "stitch together" its locally-predicted result, and the server's ground truth. So it sometimes looks off. This is an inherent limitation of network multiplayer, and Valve has done a fantastic job making it seem as fluid as it does, compared to the competition. I've emptied entire clips into enemies on Battlefield, for example, and done zero damage. Missiles go through helicopters, etc. Valve's netcode is great. Just understand it's prediction-based technology, not magic. It has limitations. You simply cannot observe the truth immediately. That's impossible, because information can't move faster than the speed of light - optical Internet fibre, which most of y'all don't have, your wires are probably copper.
The funny thing is that Solarlight did say once that demoknight is more fun than demo, but not better. Heck, he says it in his video "Demoknight's charge is complecated," says the exact same thing, in competitive, since you're only limited with 1 demo, demoknight is overshadowed, especially towards the stickybomb launcher. In the same video, it has the famous "Sickness chart". Demoknight is sick as hell, but not viable.
It's always funny to point out how the classes on the lowest part of the "sickness chart" are all classes that counter demoknight lmao, and Solarlight said he was being unbiased as possible
weaker than stock? most definitely, but straight up "bad" might be overselling it compare it to trolldier. seeing demoknight topscore is uncommon, but not unheard of. seeing trolldier top score makes you wonder what everybody else is doing (goofing off. we are in hightower)
That's only because trolldier is harder. At it's highest level trolldier is significantly better than demoknight with faster and more flexible mobility, no cooldowns aside from reloading, no knockback with mantreads, bhop gardens for dealing with enclosed spaces and higher health opponents, etc. Not saying its the best class ever but the best trolldier is more useful than the best demoknight.
good vid. demoknight's strongest trait is being annoying to fight when your team is absolutely dedicated to feeding him eyelander/halfzat kills. i genuinely wish that demo got more demoman weapons (preferably more creative than IB/QB/SR...) instead of 3 shields and a bunch of swords lol
Demoknight may be fun (even if I find stock Demo more enjoyable), and I am glad there is a way to make the class have a different playstyle, even if it is pretty unviable when you really think about it, I guess Valve couldn't really add many unlocks that fit the playstyle when he is already the best damage dealing class. But I do sometimes feel like the whole demoknight playstyle kinda overshadows the stock demo playstyle, heck sticky spam is already hated enough as is, which is kinda sad seeing potential Demos being... farmed by sentries or enemies the normal Demo wouldn't even have a hard time dealing with. Fun is subjective after all but I just feel this way a bit.
Sticky spam hate is well deserved to be honest. Considering that stickies on demo are effectively a second grenade launcher in most situations, just outright _better_ for the most part.
as an econ major I loved bringing in an opportunity cost argument. It's so true that even though people are doing good with demoknight, they could have done better with another loadout, all else being equal.
I'm a stock demo main, and I play on Dustbowl because I can't aim as the result of my psychomotor impairment. Stock demo is overpowered on Dustbowl because the entire map is a choke point, so the entire enemy team is clumped together, and there's no viable flank routes, so scout, your only hard counter, is never played.
Scout's not that hard of a counter to demo, and demo has harder problems fighting soldiers or pyros usually, depending on a few factors. Short circuit engies also mostly shut him down. Yes, fighting scout can be quite difficult. However it's highly environment dependent and imo it's actually more dependent on the demo than the scout.
@@dashyz3293 I actually don't find scout that annoying even though he's supposed to be demo's hard counter. You can just avoid them by staying close to your team, and even if you're caught out of position, a single pipe is usually enough to get them to fuck off, and you can also zone them with stickies. Pyro, on the other hand, is infuriating to fight for obvious reasons, as well as short circuit engies and soldier to a lesser extent.
Thank you, someone who's speaking sense. It's a shame that so many pub demos I see are just memeknights. I do use stock but, with the eyelander as a melee. Just eat spycrabs and you'll get heads easily!
The only match-ups that Demoknight has over Stock Demo is Sniper, Spy, and surprisingly, stock Demo, but all of these match-ups require the booties and at least 1 head on the Eyelander for the speed advantage to reliably counter each one without charge online. And Sniper is only flipped if the Sniper isn't that good. But then again, a competent Sniper shuts down the game, let alone an aimbot one.
It's probably for the best demoknight sucks because he's such a snowball class where if he has a med consistently overhealing him and/or your dumb teammates are feeding him his matchups against soldier and demo can be really one sided with how fast and tanky he is against explosives.
Demoknight: Bigger meelee range (as if that even matters) Higher mobility (when charge is ready) On-demand crits (when charge is ready) No cloak No disguise kit Alcohol addiction Higher health (depending on heads claimed) Relies on kills to reach maximum potential Defenceless from long distances Spy: normal meelee range Consistant and reliable mobility Instant kill from behind (useful for taking down overhealed Heavies and Soldiers) Cloak (good for getting behind enemy lines) Disguise kit (good for blending in) Cigarette addiction Lower health Relies on good utilisation of items Does decent damage from far distances
demoman and his stickies are INCREDIBLY good in Mann vs Machine gamemode going demoknight would just be nonstop suicide and being on life support with medic to a point of being a needy child
Demoknight is really similar to Trolldier Both can be kinda effective, but they’re easily overshadowed by their “stock” counterparts Always thought of them as a silly way to unwind after playing stock too much
Demoknight is weird, sometimes I actually have to play the game or sometimes I just walk with the scotsman's skullcutter Killing everyone because the Pyro for some reason can't airblast or the Soldier can't just stay on a cliff where demoknight can't reach him
Despite me saying I hate demoknights almost every time I see one in Casual, I really don’t. As a medic main, the only problem I have with demoknight in casual is that people seem to ignore him due to him being easily countered, usually allowing him to walk right up to me for a free kill, and his movement options incentivize him to do so and get away with it. I’ll admit he’s fun, but… not fun to play *against* as a medic.
I don’t think demoknight is bad, he’s just not as good as demoman. Demoknight is fantastic in casual not because your skill is high but rather your opponents skill is low. Any idiot can play demoknight in a somewhat effective way with the typical team comp in casual. There are usually very few medics and heavies to lock out demoknights and the scouts and engies are typically incompetent against the low skill floor of demoknight.
In my opinion, Demoknight can be good it just is so situational and takes so long to master that you'd be better off just learning a different class like scout.
When you say at 5:25 that seven out of nine classes have hitscan, doesn't medic techincally also have bullet damage it the syringe guns/crossbow. It's not hitscan techincally, but the shields don't give resistance to them either, so it's countered by eight of the nine classes.
Hitscan does NOT mean bullet damage. Hitscan means the shot is instantaneous, referring to the way the attack is viewed in the code: it scans the bullet path, if it hits something, it hits. If it misses, it misses.
Don't really think It's a question, of course stock demo is better. Personally I enjoy dk way more than stock demo but that's just a fun aspect, I respect your opinion and think It's true. Also the fucking PLAYWITHSIN was goated I can't lie
demoknight is good but also bad like any other class/sub-class depends on how you play it but if you are aware of a demoknight then thats that you will stomp him or he will run away
So I actually don't see Demoknight as a tank. I see him as an assassin, a very different role to usual Demoman. He becomes a pick class in a similar vein to spy where if the enemy team sees your charge coming, you will most likely die, but if you stay unseen until your chosen pick, you can probably kill most classes. The main issue being that you lack any invisibility or disguises, so rely even more on battlefield chaos and understanding flank routes and unorthodox movement, like trumping, and charging into hallways at an angle so you can keep charging past a hard turn in the corridor, which again relies on game map knowledge
I think demoknight has a crazy high skill ceiling. I've seen cracked out demoknights shut down whole servers before. Demoknight is easy to play as a gimick class, but really hard to play on par with other classes.
You have to put so much effort to make DKn viable in competitive high level play, when a basic demoman can just kill entire teams with sticky spamming. He definitely needs buff of some sort. My suggestions: 1. Fix damn hit detection 2. Make his range boost from 50% to 75% while charging, maybe change his animation to sticking his sword in front of him like a spear, maybe even make it attack automatically the second it connects with the enemy 3. Give him slight damage/knockback resistance while charging
I do agree with the points in the video, however while demoknight can be inconsistent and easily countered, it can be competitively viable with a good player. Case in point, odin tf2
Demoknight exists because Demoman's entire playstyle revolves exclusively around how important his stickies are. They added a new playstyle with fun in mind, knowing fully that it would not, could not, and should not ever be as effective as stickies. If Demoknight was buffed to be even half as strong as stickies, it would incredibly unfair to fight against. Fun fact for those who weren't around during the "sticky-knight" era of TF2, the Eyelander's speed boost used to be retained when replacing your shield with the stickybomb launcher. They had to *nerf* Demoknight because people were getting four heads and running around with stickies while being as fast as a Scout and with more HP than Soldier. Imagine having to deal with that today, with Medic being able to match his pocket's speed with every Medigun? Insane.
I main demo and I was literally thinking this exact thing last week because every time I see something on TH-cam about the demoman it's always about demoknight and how good he is at movement. It's like stickypogo is a lost art... Do these people now know that stock demoman can midair pogo (flying) with the sticky jumper? Have they never seen speedpogo? The charge is just so suboptimal in so many ways. Stickies have a way higher skill ceiling. When I want to "have fun" I equip the sticky jumper and the loose cannon+caber... I literally googled "Demoknight is bad" a few weeks back... No results, just lame demoknight eyelander killfarm comps and solarlight "how to use the charge" videos. For the record I'm good at demoknight, I constantly topscore in medieval lobbies... Demoknight in any other context is pretty frustrating to me. The scout part is funny, my second ish main is scout and whenever I see an eyelander knight I go scout and seek and destroy out of pure spite because they're so easy to deal with on scout
I don't think this is a hot take by any stretch. Demoknight is kinda like Spy in that a good player can easily shred a casual lobby with him, but in a competitive setting he's too situational, gimmicky, and easily countered to be successful and reliable. Spy is his own class and has tools that are useful outside of direct combat, so he still sees competitive play in some modes, while playing Demoknight requires sacrificing your stock Demoman, which is not a tradeoff any sane team would ever make. TF2's balancing hasn't been touched in 7 years, and I think most people with a competitive interest in TF2 are well aware of this by now.
Interesting discussion, and despite loving me Demo and Hybrid Knight to death I agree with all the arguments you presented, you mind if I ask, If you were to buff Demoknight to be viable in competitive what would you do?
It's good vs majority of the playerbase though :D But yeah. Once you start playing with people worth their salt, it becomes incredibly obvious how much of a deadweight that subclass is. When players are almost never out of position for no good reason and most of the server population understands what, why and when would make them more vulnerable against his shenanigans, he simply won't have an opportunity window for the majority of the match and he have no tools to do anything about it. Top that up with teams always having around 3 medics, players almost always being grouped up, and everything revolving around holds, team pushes and focus fire. There's simply no place for a demoknight in that environment. Unless he is fine with dragging his team down. Hybrid knight is fine though. It's no full demoman, but chugging grenades around will never be not good.
Demoknight isn't bad, he is just worse than a stock demo. Demoknight can easily escape almost any battle while stock demo stays there and accepts his death, but gets more kills.
6:12 I will sound like the erm actually nerd but still tho not only the skullcutter but all the other melee weapons he has access to which are Bottle, Scottish Handshake, Pan, Conscientious Objector, Freedom Staff, Bat Outta Hell, Memory Maker, Ham Shank, Necro Smasher, Crossing Guard, Prinny Mechete, Saxxy, Golden Frying Pan aka all the weapons which are not special
0:55 with 5 heads and the splendid screen you can oneshot heavies and overhealed soldiers. 1:33 maybe thats because you're not using a loadout balanced around fast charge recharge you aren't using the boots and you didn't get a melee kill to refill your charge meter. if you dont do either, than you wont be able to refresh after trimping. 2:33 yeah thats completely fair, but I would like to add that odintf2 won a season of etf2l as a full demoknight in division 2. th-cam.com/video/lXZQCOuLgs8/w-d-xo.html (which is not nearly the highest level of play but still insanely impressive what is possible for a demoknight to pull off) 3:49 bc of the way clientside registration works the aggressor always has a huge advantage in melee duels also at 3:52 it really looks to me like you are out of melee range, I wouldn't hit that swing from that distance even 1 time out of 10. 4:20 theres nothing I can say here but skill issue. literally you just need to know your maps better. this hasn't affected me since my first 10 hours on demoknight (hes my most played class with around 50-60 hours) 5:31 yeah thats also true but comes in less often than you think if you play demoknight as a pick class meant to take down important targets and get trade kills (either killing an important target exg medic, sniper, engineer in exchange for dying or killing multiple people in exchange for dying) more than a pumpstomping killstreak class. 5:45 a demoknight works best when you dont see him coming, you should ALWAYS try to surprise your opponent bc when you do they wont have time to 1. react 2. switch to melee and 3. random crit you. (also the vast majority of the time pulling out your melee against a demoknight is a stupid idea unless you're playing demoknight or medic 6:41 demoknight's role on the team is to get himself into stressful situations like that in order to secure trade kills, thinking about demoknight as a killstreak class is where you're going wrong 7:05 it depends on what you consider "succeeding" as demoknight, for example, my definition of succeeding would be helping my team to win in an impactful way throughout the round. and I succeed in nearly every match I play as demoknight AND maintain a 1.0 k/d most of the time, if you want to get high killstreaks and k/d then maybe demoknight just isn't the class for you. 7:23 oh it more than hurts, pyros are the only reason I think demoknight shouldn't be the tenth class 8:06 dealing with sentries is not nearly as impossible as you think, every non explosive class is supposed to struggle against sentries that are being properly attended to by an engineer, but every class is meant to be able to take down an unattended sentry nest including demoknight. try mid air charge strafing at it from out of its range or around a corner and get on top and circle strafe it while swinging at it. (or just circle strafe to disable it for your team) 8:26 completely fair and the only point in this video I 100% agree with. also is he USING THE PAIN TRAIN!?!?!?!?!? no fucking wonder you're losing lmfao. 8:35 you blindly jumped into him rather than trying to surprise him at all, because you were clearly going for the medic first and the heavy surprised YOU 8:39 stop thinking about demoknight as a killstreak class. you simply wont have fun. 9:05 you KNEW the entire other team was stacking demoknight and you also had a pocket medic and none of them were trying to surprise you bc theres no way TO surprise you when theres only cannon fodder throwing themselves at you. stacking demoknight is bad just like stacking spy is bad, and when an entire team stacks ANY class no wonder they're going to get stomped. 10:39 HARD COUNTER HE DID NOT SAY HARD COUNTER. 11:03 I dont want to say skill issue again... dont make me say it 11:15 untrue I can hardly get 3 or even 2 kills in one life as stock demo and I frequently topscore as demoknight 13:27 yeah thats fair but its certainly not impossible to contribute toward the objective, help your team, and topscore at the same time and odin is proof that you can succeed against competent players.
this comment perfectly highlights everything wrong with this video, thanks so that i dont have to tyoe my own lmfao. comment approved by someone with 500 hours on demoknight
I mean, demoknight will never be as good as stock demoman, but personally, its one of the most fun clasess bc no other first person shooter game lets you go ham with a melee based playstyle. But yeah, it doesnt feel right comparing the benefits of demoman with demoknight, they are 2 completly diferent things. Both have his upsides and both have their downsides
Demoknight is not bad, it’s that he’s linked to one of the best classes in the entire game (eight explosives in one gun is always going to beat a man running with a shield) but that’s not terrible, having a different play style that makes you basically play a 10th class and flip your entire class upside down (usually having to play at range so he doesn’t blow himself up, now charging at enemies with the might of an angry Scottish cyclops) can really fix the issue of getting bored of spamming explosives in a chokepoint. There are dozens of other play styles that are terrible (I love the Buffalo steak sandvich, but you and I can’t ignore it sucks) but demoknight is not one of them, especially since you can fly at mach speeds and decapitate an enemy pyro without them even processing what happened (funny Scottish man with sword and shield is better than the arsonist, and there’s no denying that.)
how you dare talk about demoknight while blue scouts pants are still missing
Never forget what valve took from us...
Never seen any dude caring for pants in gaming besides Kim Kaphwan from Fatal Fury
the best thing about demoknight is getting four eyelander heads and swapping to grenades and stickies so you just have 210 hp 315 overheal and near scout move speed
You're kidding right? Ive never played demoknight
@RonZ234 no, they're not kidding. You can really do that and it's insane lol
I did that once. It's ridiculous. I'm not even that good at demo (stock or demoknight) but I was unkillable.
@@RonZ234 You can only do it a certain way - get the heads with the eyelander, change your loadout to stock demo + eyelander _before_ you enter spawn (make sure you have the kill-after-changing-loadout setting disabled), then enter spawn and touch the resupply cabinet.
Bootlegger, Scottish resistance, eyelander is the most fun i have playing demo
the difference is... knight and day?
non why would you say that...................................
hello bro
Demo nstratively
knight and gay
@@Jimothywastaken IM SORRY FORGIVR ME SOLARLIGHT I
scarybroccoli declared war on solarlight
And Odin
@@goodie2goodie1 yes based comment
@@goodie2goodie1 bro said you cant do well as demoknight in competitive
@@goodie2goodie1 and also emperor nightfall
@@zypherion516 Odin is a complete detriment to his team. When you look at his actual stats, he takes too much of the heals, deals very little damage, and controls very little space when viewing his demos. Just because you see 5 highlights of him on tantf2 or whatever doesn't mean he's actually doing well. The only reason they are winning etf2l's middle divisions is because their other combat players are simply better, and mid-level teams are just bad and don't know how to play against him. Put a demoknight against high invite players in a 6s match and lets see how far they get. (Spoiler, they get literally nothing done and get rolled to hell and back)
I swear every single demo I see in pubs is a demoknight or hybridknight, it's like the sticky launcher is some obscure unlock instead of the stock weapon.
just be thankful tbh, a good stock demo can destroy lobbies (kayajam please spare me, you're like one of the main reasons i lose matches like no joke)
as someone who mainly play demoknight/hybridknight and have sunk most of my time in the game into this playstyle - I just think stickies are lame. Like, yes, they do insane amounts of damage and offer you stupid amounts of area control, but I personally find any playstyle surrounding them boring. Spamming? Snoozefest. Setting up traps? Better, but gets old quick. Shields, on another hand, provide you a lot of utility in exchange for losing damage in the form of one the best mobility tools in the game, damage resists are just a cherry on top. Sure, sticky jumping gets you really far and fast too, but it costs health, and it's much tougher to use as an escape tool because you need both health and ammo in the clip in order to do so, while shields just require the full meter.
tl;dr shields are more fun despite being a significantly weaker option, which is why more casual players tend to lean towards them
Demomain here, it gets boring using stickies after a while, like really boring because of how effective it is. Jumper and shields are more fun to use
@@waker_link I am a demomain too, shields are neat but they get boring for me, with the cooldown and jank involved.
I've played 600 hours of demo and 90% of it was with stickies. It's probably one of my favorite weapons in all of gaming because there's just so much ingrained in it. Sticky jumping, Comboing with pipes, traps, airdets, outsmarting my opponent by predicting where they're going, charging stickies to snipe, getting rid of m2 happy pyros, building an impassable area for the enemy so i can reload or heal, multikills, kritzkrieg, etc. It's a dopamine swiss army knife.
Of course, I understand I'm in the minority here, but I think so many people hear "winbombs" or "m1+m2" and just write it off as an immoral op weapon or boring win button without exploring the weapon further.
I play hybridknight most of the time because pub medics are ultra rare and the resistances/dash let me play like a reckless moron in the same way a beamed demo can
How could you say something so uncontroversial yet so brave?
For a quick summary:
Demoman good, Demoknight worse.
Demoman hard to counter, Demoknight easy to counter.
Demoman consistent, Demoknight inconsistent.
If you’re good at Demoknight, you could do even better at Demoman.
as a medic main, i totally agree and have thought this for a while. another thing i think is understated here is losing your synergy with medic. ubering/kritzing a demo is objectively the scariest thing in a match of tf2. swapping to demoknight means you will get less attention from you medics, less buffs, ubers, etc.
That's not janky hit registration. That's visual lag compensation. Let me explain exactly what happens:
Each player experiences a delay in both their actions and the apparent results equalling the sum total of roundtrip pings from client to server to (other) client. So while you're pressing buttons and being alive, you may already be dead, the message just hasn't arrived yet over the Internet. This also produces the infamous "got shot after going behind corner" effect familiar from Counter-Strike. The ground truth is that you got shot, but because your client doesn't know about it until later, it lets you move behind the corner and then unexpectedly it seems to you totally unfair to die. But this is an illusion:
You're seeing on your screen what your client is EXPECTING to happen. Other players' inputs may have already invalidated the scenario you're seeing on your screen, on the server; the message what ACTUALLY happened arrives late, and the result seems ridiculous, because your client is trying to "stitch together" its locally-predicted result, and the server's ground truth. So it sometimes looks off.
This is an inherent limitation of network multiplayer, and Valve has done a fantastic job making it seem as fluid as it does, compared to the competition. I've emptied entire clips into enemies on Battlefield, for example, and done zero damage. Missiles go through helicopters, etc. Valve's netcode is great. Just understand it's prediction-based technology, not magic. It has limitations. You simply cannot observe the truth immediately. That's impossible, because information can't move faster than the speed of light - optical Internet fibre, which most of y'all don't have, your wires are probably copper.
We have a funny smart guy here, i’m scared
Who was even arguing that demoknight is viable in the first place?
Solarlight
He plays hybrid@@snoot6629
Solarlight
th-cam.com/video/Rhh7zwNYoWY/w-d-xo.html
@@scarybroccoli to be fair this is the same mf that can generate at least 12 "open" gifs an hour every tf2 vod
its impressive that you managed to bait the entire community without actually baiting
one of the only watchable tf2 channels on youtube
Yeah but I’ve seen a TH-camr destroy a team of fresh installs on demoknight so it must be good 😢😢
scarybrocoli reportedly (8:28) equipped the pain train on a red demoman
pain train is good bro
@@highly2943 it gives you only one extra control point, it is pointless on defending team in payload
r/tf2 users gonna be so angry
At 4:00 this isn't because of the demo knight but the scout. By the looks of it the scout was using cheating (using backtrack) too.
But... I need someone to farm my strange mini gun from :(
heavy is easy
Demoknight lovers can enjoy him in competitive. Except it's 4v4 pass time and stickybombs are banned for being too strong lol.
Dude area denial is banned not stickies. Also they are lame 😊
The funny thing is that Solarlight did say once that demoknight is more fun than demo, but not better. Heck, he says it in his video "Demoknight's charge is complecated," says the exact same thing, in competitive, since you're only limited with 1 demo, demoknight is overshadowed, especially towards the stickybomb launcher. In the same video, it has the famous "Sickness chart". Demoknight is sick as hell, but not viable.
It's always funny to point out how the classes on the lowest part of the "sickness chart" are all classes that counter demoknight lmao, and Solarlight said he was being unbiased as possible
solarlight would like to know your location
thank you for this critical information. now all those competitive demoknights will finally switch to stock demo.
also loving the rimworld soundtrack
I think you basically mean demoknight is worse than stock demo, which I don't think anyone would disagree with
He says what he basically means. No need to interpret.
“Demoknight is bad”
Inserts a solarlight clip
weaker than stock? most definitely, but straight up "bad" might be overselling it
compare it to trolldier. seeing demoknight topscore is uncommon, but not unheard of. seeing trolldier top score makes you wonder what everybody else is doing (goofing off. we are in hightower)
They're both bad.
That's only because trolldier is harder. At it's highest level trolldier is significantly better than demoknight with faster and more flexible mobility, no cooldowns aside from reloading, no knockback with mantreads, bhop gardens for dealing with enclosed spaces and higher health opponents, etc. Not saying its the best class ever but the best trolldier is more useful than the best demoknight.
good vid. demoknight's strongest trait is being annoying to fight when your team is absolutely dedicated to feeding him eyelander/halfzat kills. i genuinely wish that demo got more demoman weapons (preferably more creative than IB/QB/SR...) instead of 3 shields and a bunch of swords lol
Great video highlighting all problems with demoknight, I'd love to see a video highlighting all problems with spy and heavy aswell
Demoknight may be fun (even if I find stock Demo more enjoyable), and I am glad there is a way to make the class have a different playstyle, even if it is pretty unviable when you really think about it, I guess Valve couldn't really add many unlocks that fit the playstyle when he is already the best damage dealing class. But I do sometimes feel like the whole demoknight playstyle kinda overshadows the stock demo playstyle, heck sticky spam is already hated enough as is, which is kinda sad seeing potential Demos being... farmed by sentries or enemies the normal Demo wouldn't even have a hard time dealing with. Fun is subjective after all but I just feel this way a bit.
Sticky spam hate is well deserved to be honest. Considering that stickies on demo are effectively a second grenade launcher in most situations, just outright _better_ for the most part.
Demoknight literally turns demo from a heavy counter into a heavy cannon fodder
as an econ major I loved bringing in an opportunity cost argument.
It's so true that even though people are doing good with demoknight, they could have done better with another loadout, all else being equal.
I'm a stock demo main, and I play on Dustbowl because I can't aim as the result of my psychomotor impairment. Stock demo is overpowered on Dustbowl because the entire map is a choke point, so the entire enemy team is clumped together, and there's no viable flank routes, so scout, your only hard counter, is never played.
Scout's not that hard of a counter to demo, and demo has harder problems fighting soldiers or pyros usually, depending on a few factors. Short circuit engies also mostly shut him down.
Yes, fighting scout can be quite difficult. However it's highly environment dependent and imo it's actually more dependent on the demo than the scout.
@@dashyz3293 I actually don't find scout that annoying even though he's supposed to be demo's hard counter. You can just avoid them by staying close to your team, and even if you're caught out of position, a single pipe is usually enough to get them to fuck off, and you can also zone them with stickies. Pyro, on the other hand, is infuriating to fight for obvious reasons, as well as short circuit engies and soldier to a lesser extent.
The Rimworld music makes me think of my previously commited warcrimes while discussing sword man, very nice.
People in here claiming demoknight has a high skill ceiling, as if good demoknights are constantly farming solarlight-tier clips every life
What, ur telling me the sub class isn't as good as the normal class?!??!?!?!?!?
Thank you, someone who's speaking sense. It's a shame that so many pub demos I see are just memeknights.
I do use stock but, with the eyelander as a melee. Just eat spycrabs and you'll get heads easily!
Thanks! I was bursting with laughter from this 10k hours demoknight sin gameplay
The only match-ups that Demoknight has over Stock Demo is Sniper, Spy, and surprisingly, stock Demo, but all of these match-ups require the booties and at least 1 head on the Eyelander for the speed advantage to reliably counter each one without charge online. And Sniper is only flipped if the Sniper isn't that good. But then again, a competent Sniper shuts down the game, let alone an aimbot one.
It's probably for the best demoknight sucks because he's such a snowball class where if he has a med consistently overhealing him and/or your dumb teammates are feeding him his matchups against soldier and demo can be really one sided with how fast and tanky he is against explosives.
All of the arguements in this video are instantly dashed by the fact that I and nobody else in casual actually cares about the objective
Demoknight:
Bigger meelee range (as if that even matters)
Higher mobility (when charge is ready)
On-demand crits (when charge is ready)
No cloak
No disguise kit
Alcohol addiction
Higher health (depending on heads claimed)
Relies on kills to reach maximum potential
Defenceless from long distances
Spy: normal meelee range
Consistant and reliable mobility
Instant kill from behind (useful for taking down overhealed Heavies and Soldiers)
Cloak (good for getting behind enemy lines)
Disguise kit (good for blending in)
Cigarette addiction
Lower health
Relies on good utilisation of items
Does decent damage from far distances
Well, everyone knows it's just a gimmic subclass used to pubstomp F2Ps
demoknight bad, who would think that only using melee would be bad in a fps
wait so do people actually think demoknight is good? I've never met a single person who thinks demoknight is *good*
th-cam.com/video/Rhh7zwNYoWY/w-d-xo.html eyelander is op apparently
@scarybroccoli I forgot that zesty jesus is a moron when it comes to balance
zesty is silly and you should not trust him on tf2 balance and design
Just scroll through the comments you'll find plenty
demoman and his stickies are INCREDIBLY good in Mann vs Machine gamemode
going demoknight would just be nonstop suicide and being on life support with medic to a point of being a needy child
Demo man is too good with stickies, sometimes you just wanna get funny crits on your sword and just start swinging
demokinght is only fun until you meet a heavy
or until the last guy you killed switches to force a nature scout and hunts you lmfao
Natasha
i am clown :(
Or a sentry
Or a Pyro
Brother the rimworld music in the background caught me off guard. Love it.
Demoknight is really similar to Trolldier
Both can be kinda effective, but they’re easily overshadowed by their “stock” counterparts
Always thought of them as a silly way to unwind after playing stock too much
The comments on this one are going to be amazing.
im replying an hour later and it actually was amazing already
you have not only made a enemy of the demoknights but the caberknights too
"demoknight is bad" mfs when i show them farming 17 heads off of fresh installs
Alright, let me show you what I can do to those fresh installs at their spawn door
Man I wish I could make a video like this, but my mind is not there. Great stuff.
Demoknight is weird, sometimes I actually have to play the game or sometimes I just walk with the scotsman's skullcutter Killing everyone because the Pyro for some reason can't airblast or the Soldier can't just stay on a cliff where demoknight can't reach him
Solarlight stonks in shambles rn
cant wait for all the demoknight tf2 comments lmao thanks for the vids bro
Dude i just realize how much of what u talked abt here sounds exactly like my financial uni classes rn 😭😭😭
Despite me saying I hate demoknights almost every time I see one in Casual, I really don’t. As a medic main, the only problem I have with demoknight in casual is that people seem to ignore him due to him being easily countered, usually allowing him to walk right up to me for a free kill, and his movement options incentivize him to do so and get away with it. I’ll admit he’s fun, but… not fun to play *against* as a medic.
Base demo can both survive longer (playing with your team and at midrange sweet spots) and pick classes infinitely easier (bombing is strong as fork)
Im pretty sure medic's syringes also count as bullet damage.
A melee class in a gun fight game being seen as bad? Who could have seen that one coming?
I don’t think demoknight is bad, he’s just not as good as demoman. Demoknight is fantastic in casual not because your skill is high but rather your opponents skill is low. Any idiot can play demoknight in a somewhat effective way with the typical team comp in casual. There are usually very few medics and heavies to lock out demoknights and the scouts and engies are typically incompetent against the low skill floor of demoknight.
In my opinion, Demoknight can be good it just is so situational and takes so long to master that you'd be better off just learning a different class like scout.
When you say at 5:25 that seven out of nine classes have hitscan, doesn't medic techincally also have bullet damage it the syringe guns/crossbow. It's not hitscan techincally, but the shields don't give resistance to them either, so it's countered by eight of the nine classes.
Hitscan does NOT mean bullet damage. Hitscan means the shot is instantaneous, referring to the way the attack is viewed in the code: it scans the bullet path, if it hits something, it hits. If it misses, it misses.
@@dashyz3293 He wasn't saying that. Nice strawman.
Goated RimWorld soundtrack 👍🏼👍🏼
Don't really think It's a question, of course stock demo is better. Personally I enjoy dk way more than stock demo but that's just a fun aspect, I respect your opinion and think It's true. Also the fucking PLAYWITHSIN was goated I can't lie
trainkid45 been real quiet since this dropped
Basically is like saying "Trolldier is not good"
Is just a subclass
Is s fun subclass
demoknight is good but also bad like any other class/sub-class depends on how you play it but if you are aware of a demoknight then thats that you will stomp him or he will run away
my friends informed me i was in the end of this video on the scoreboard (i was scary moster)
So I actually don't see Demoknight as a tank. I see him as an assassin, a very different role to usual Demoman. He becomes a pick class in a similar vein to spy where if the enemy team sees your charge coming, you will most likely die, but if you stay unseen until your chosen pick, you can probably kill most classes. The main issue being that you lack any invisibility or disguises, so rely even more on battlefield chaos and understanding flank routes and unorthodox movement, like trumping, and charging into hallways at an angle so you can keep charging past a hard turn in the corridor, which again relies on game map knowledge
I think demoknight has a crazy high skill ceiling. I've seen cracked out demoknights shut down whole servers before. Demoknight is easy to play as a gimick class, but really hard to play on par with other classes.
3:30 indeed....i know this pain a little too much..
Ran into last game I played. You were destroying the lobby as spy, and after you killed me like 3 times I remembered you were a TH-camr.
You have to put so much effort to make DKn viable in competitive high level play, when a basic demoman can just kill entire teams with sticky spamming. He definitely needs buff of some sort.
My suggestions:
1. Fix damn hit detection
2. Make his range boost from 50% to 75% while charging, maybe change his animation to sticking his sword in front of him like a spear, maybe even make it attack automatically the second it connects with the enemy
3. Give him slight damage/knockback resistance while charging
3:55 and people were calling ME crazy!
Thats why the hybridknight is the best.
I run lock n load, tide turner and the skullcutter and it destroys every class
I do agree with the points in the video, however while demoknight can be inconsistent and easily countered, it can be competitively viable with a good player. Case in point, odin tf2
every playstyle is viable until you stop playing against pubbers lol. Good vid mate
4:00 cheater group
Ahaha the spy reference😅
Demoknight exists because Demoman's entire playstyle revolves exclusively around how important his stickies are.
They added a new playstyle with fun in mind, knowing fully that it would not, could not, and should not ever be as effective as stickies.
If Demoknight was buffed to be even half as strong as stickies, it would incredibly unfair to fight against.
Fun fact for those who weren't around during the "sticky-knight" era of TF2, the Eyelander's speed boost used to be retained when replacing your shield with the stickybomb launcher.
They had to *nerf* Demoknight because people were getting four heads and running around with stickies while being as fast as a Scout and with more HP than Soldier.
Imagine having to deal with that today, with Medic being able to match his pocket's speed with every Medigun? Insane.
I main demo and I was literally thinking this exact thing last week because every time I see something on TH-cam about the demoman it's always about demoknight and how good he is at movement. It's like stickypogo is a lost art... Do these people now know that stock demoman can midair pogo (flying) with the sticky jumper? Have they never seen speedpogo? The charge is just so suboptimal in so many ways. Stickies have a way higher skill ceiling. When I want to "have fun" I equip the sticky jumper and the loose cannon+caber... I literally googled "Demoknight is bad" a few weeks back... No results, just lame demoknight eyelander killfarm comps and solarlight "how to use the charge" videos. For the record I'm good at demoknight, I constantly topscore in medieval lobbies... Demoknight in any other context is pretty frustrating to me. The scout part is funny, my second ish main is scout and whenever I see an eyelander knight I go scout and seek and destroy out of pure spite because they're so easy to deal with on scout
*Angry Solarlight noises*
I don't think this is a hot take by any stretch. Demoknight is kinda like Spy in that a good player can easily shred a casual lobby with him, but in a competitive setting he's too situational, gimmicky, and easily countered to be successful and reliable. Spy is his own class and has tools that are useful outside of direct combat, so he still sees competitive play in some modes, while playing Demoknight requires sacrificing your stock Demoman, which is not a tradeoff any sane team would ever make. TF2's balancing hasn't been touched in 7 years, and I think most people with a competitive interest in TF2 are well aware of this by now.
yeah me when natascha
Interesting discussion, and despite loving me Demo and Hybrid Knight to death I agree with all the arguments you presented, you mind if I ask, If you were to buff Demoknight to be viable in competitive what would you do?
It's good vs majority of the playerbase though :D
But yeah. Once you start playing with people worth their salt, it becomes incredibly obvious how much of a deadweight that subclass is.
When players are almost never out of position for no good reason and most of the server population understands what, why and when would make them more vulnerable against his shenanigans, he simply won't have an opportunity window for the majority of the match and he have no tools to do anything about it.
Top that up with teams always having around 3 medics, players almost always being grouped up, and everything revolving around holds, team pushes and focus fire.
There's simply no place for a demoknight in that environment. Unless he is fine with dragging his team down.
Hybrid knight is fine though. It's no full demoman, but chugging grenades around will never be not good.
Demoknight isn't bad, he is just worse than a stock demo.
Demoknight can easily escape almost any battle while stock demo stays there and accepts his death, but gets more kills.
dis track goes hard
Demoknight is more to unbalance
Not op but weak
Low damage
Easly countered
Ez random crit death
6:12 I will sound like the erm actually nerd but still tho not only the skullcutter but all the other melee weapons he has access to which are Bottle, Scottish Handshake, Pan, Conscientious Objector, Freedom Staff, Bat Outta Hell, Memory Maker, Ham Shank, Necro Smasher, Crossing Guard, Prinny Mechete, Saxxy, Golden Frying Pan aka all the weapons which are not special
Oh my goodness is that highly at the end of the video?????
0:55 with 5 heads and the splendid screen you can oneshot heavies and overhealed soldiers.
1:33 maybe thats because you're not using a loadout balanced around fast charge recharge you aren't using the boots and you didn't get a melee kill to refill your charge meter. if you dont do either, than you wont be able to refresh after trimping.
2:33 yeah thats completely fair, but I would like to add that odintf2 won a season of etf2l as a full demoknight in division 2. th-cam.com/video/lXZQCOuLgs8/w-d-xo.html (which is not nearly the highest level of play but still insanely impressive what is possible for a demoknight to pull off)
3:49 bc of the way clientside registration works the aggressor always has a huge advantage in melee duels also at 3:52 it really looks to me like you are out of melee range, I wouldn't hit that swing from that distance even 1 time out of 10.
4:20 theres nothing I can say here but skill issue. literally you just need to know your maps better. this hasn't affected me since my first 10 hours on demoknight (hes my most played class with around 50-60 hours)
5:31 yeah thats also true but comes in less often than you think if you play demoknight as a pick class meant to take down important targets and get trade kills (either killing an important target exg medic, sniper, engineer in exchange for dying or killing multiple people in exchange for dying) more than a pumpstomping killstreak class.
5:45 a demoknight works best when you dont see him coming, you should ALWAYS try to surprise your opponent bc when you do they wont have time to 1. react 2. switch to melee and 3. random crit you. (also the vast majority of the time pulling out your melee against a demoknight is a stupid idea unless you're playing demoknight or medic
6:41 demoknight's role on the team is to get himself into stressful situations like that in order to secure trade kills, thinking about demoknight as a killstreak class is where you're going wrong
7:05 it depends on what you consider "succeeding" as demoknight, for example, my definition of succeeding would be helping my team to win in an impactful way throughout the round. and I succeed in nearly every match I play as demoknight AND maintain a 1.0 k/d most of the time, if you want to get high killstreaks and k/d then maybe demoknight just isn't the class for you.
7:23 oh it more than hurts, pyros are the only reason I think demoknight shouldn't be the tenth class
8:06 dealing with sentries is not nearly as impossible as you think, every non explosive class is supposed to struggle against sentries that are being properly attended to by an engineer, but every class is meant to be able to take down an unattended sentry nest including demoknight. try mid air charge strafing at it from out of its range or around a corner and get on top and circle strafe it while swinging at it. (or just circle strafe to disable it for your team)
8:26 completely fair and the only point in this video I 100% agree with. also is he USING THE PAIN TRAIN!?!?!?!?!? no fucking wonder you're losing lmfao.
8:35 you blindly jumped into him rather than trying to surprise him at all, because you were clearly going for the medic first and the heavy surprised YOU
8:39 stop thinking about demoknight as a killstreak class. you simply wont have fun.
9:05 you KNEW the entire other team was stacking demoknight and you also had a pocket medic and none of them were trying to surprise you bc theres no way TO surprise you when theres only cannon fodder throwing themselves at you. stacking demoknight is bad just like stacking spy is bad, and when an entire team stacks ANY class no wonder they're going to get stomped.
10:39 HARD COUNTER HE DID NOT SAY HARD COUNTER.
11:03 I dont want to say skill issue again... dont make me say it
11:15 untrue I can hardly get 3 or even 2 kills in one life as stock demo and I frequently topscore as demoknight
13:27 yeah thats fair but its certainly not impossible to contribute toward the objective, help your team, and topscore at the same time and odin is proof that you can succeed against competent players.
this comment perfectly highlights everything wrong with this video, thanks so that i dont have to tyoe my own lmfao. comment approved by someone with 500 hours on demoknight
i think the pain train is underused on red team. poeple think the pain train is only good on blu but if u use it on red team u get more out of it
But, hear me out. What if you play demoknight (eyelander) then after 2 - 3 heads, swap to full demoman with upgrades?
4:00 nice spy unusual
I mean, demoknight will never be as good as stock demoman, but personally, its one of the most fun clasess bc no other first person shooter game lets you go ham with a melee based playstyle.
But yeah, it doesnt feel right comparing the benefits of demoman with demoknight, they are 2 completly diferent things. Both have his upsides and both have their downsides
I thought this said demoMAN was bad and was super confused
Here comes the Solarlight fanboys.
All demoknights deserve to get random crit me thinks
Demoknight is not bad, it’s that he’s linked to one of the best classes in the entire game (eight explosives in one gun is always going to beat a man running with a shield) but that’s not terrible, having a different play style that makes you basically play a 10th class and flip your entire class upside down (usually having to play at range so he doesn’t blow himself up, now charging at enemies with the might of an angry Scottish cyclops) can really fix the issue of getting bored of spamming explosives in a chokepoint.
There are dozens of other play styles that are terrible (I love the Buffalo steak sandvich, but you and I can’t ignore it sucks) but demoknight is not one of them, especially since you can fly at mach speeds and decapitate an enemy pyro without them even processing what happened (funny Scottish man with sword and shield is better than the arsonist, and there’s no denying that.)
demoknight is overpowered what are you talking about
Should Demoknight be buffed or reworked to be more viable?