no critbox 95% of his uptime, 300+ shield on demand, area denial and the fastest movement in the game while most of the cc has been stripped from the game. Thank god hes harmless if you peel/get peeled.
I agree the cc is kind of ridiculous but it's almost impossible to kill a good ball if you don't cc him. Maybe if you discord him & your whole team looks at him MAYBE he'll die but otherwise nah. Also doesn't help you can never crit him if he's in ball form which he is 90 percent of the time.
Sure a good ball may be hard to kill but please remenber that you can just wait for him to engage and either a bastion deletes him, reaper deals well with him, sombra yea, cass nade and fan, beside that and most tanks like dva, zarya, doom, can peel for you support this season have tons of healing and great utility to make a ball just kill no one and even if he gets a good minefield remenber ana can break most of it with nade, doom and sombra just denie it, also i forgot junquer queen knife makes ball and winston just die if hit by it all in all ball takes to much effort to avoid all this cooldowns or bait them to then go in and either get inmediatly killed or kill no one because the primary fire does not do enough damage and the amount of burst healing is too much not saying he is wothless just that its easier for others to do more also lucio amp up makes him do no damage to him
The problem with doom is that it's an argument of extremes. If hes strong in a game with little counters and used by a competent player, everyone (let's be honest though the most vocal role is support) gets up in arms over how they get "destroyed by doomfist", and that's not even to mention all of the *crazy good* doom one tricks out there that actually *nuke* lobbies. But if every person in the match switches to counter him, or if the person playing him just has no idea what they're doing, he explodes and either is forced to swap or is "throwing" the entire game. Doesn't help he's in the tank role, the most unfun to play role right now balance wise according to most of the community.
It is not about skill celling, doom is a hero that only can do thing in front of enemy face in a short distance with reasonable reaction time. That's make tons of counter plays.
@@defragsbinyeah rein zarya memories are pretty much one of the the only reasons anyone wants 6v6 back. Everything else was misery pain and suffering lmao
Some of these things aren't that bad in isolation, but when they stack, it's really frustrating. E.g. Kiri & Bap together might not be the world's best support duo, but they have regen burst (nerfed in last patch, at least), lamp, TP & suzu. That's a lot of get-out-of-jail cards, and these abilities punish heroes with 'steady' damage. Shoot someone in the head with widow/hanzo/soj? No problem into bap/kiri -- they can't predict to save teammates from a one-shot because there's basically no warning or wind-up. A bap or kiri isn't going speculatively use suzu/lamp 'just in case' someone eats a headshot. OTOH, that's 4 abilities that basically counter 'regular', steady, predictable damage. If Winston/Ball/Tracer/Soldier etc. whittle someone's health down, the bap and kiri have multiple seconds to plan out and use their abilities to save them. The Kiri's TP/suzu combo is particularly irritating when you're punishing someone who's been separated from their team. This then feeds into the next problem: Mercy. The only counter to instant kills is rez -- you cannot predict and block a one-shot, but you sure as hell can rez it, esp. when you're playing into things close to mirror comps with no ability to rush down and stop a rez (and hell, I camp rez like crazy as Ball, but half the time it's just not possible to deny because of map geometry & glitches). Mercy also feeds into one-shot comps by increasing the one-shot distance for practically all high-burst hitscan heroes, as well as reducing the charge time breakpoints for heroes like Soj & Hanzo. Mercy is basically a low-key pox on the game in a lot of ways. Running a double sniper mirror and the enemy team has Mercy and you have a Moira? You basically can't win. Same deal with running a mirrored echo or pharah.
idk double sniper mirrors nowadays are even at high ranked cause they're pretty vulnerable to a lot of stuff like yeah mercy is better then moira in poke but that can be argued for any hero like if you're playing rein brawl and one team has lucio and the other one doesn't one team is at a big advantage
Truth be told, Overwatch would likely need huge overhauls to the other roles to accommodate for this, but if you deleted Ana, Mercy, and maybe Zen (or reworked), and nerfed Bap and Kiri a bit, the game would be much, much more enjoyable. Ana powercrept the entire support role HARD with burst heals and best in class CC, and Tank balance pretty much always goes back to her effectiveness in the current meta. Mercy has always been the catalyst of problematic/braindead DPS, is not fun to play against in the slightest, and has always had an absolutely disproportionate level of effectiveness/value to the amount of skill required to play her. Zen could be fine with a rework but we don't trust Blizzard to do anything right, hey? Kiri's kit is still way too stacked despite the nerfs and Bap is maybe just a bit too strong, idk, I don't have as much conviction when talking about Bap's effectiveness. I just wish supports were actually vulnerable. People are always like "just dive Ana lol" and then while trying you get slept, naded, speared, hindered, hacked, depressed, and then uninstall.
no the counter play to orisa is to just ignore her and go for the sups or dps but espicially on the lower elos people dont get that and instead focus their whole dmg on orisa which is just feeding the supports@@westbrookmvp7826
It's not almost every spot by a long shot. 4 spots are DPS, 1 is Tank and 5 are Support. With the last one being a pretty braindead take IMO. Also, except Mercy and the bad Ana take, every Support listed are the DPS hybrids that play a lot more like DPS in most cases. Guess why. Don't forget Yeatle has a hard "Tanks are not broken" bias. Where's the unkillable duo of Ram and Orisa, for example?
Reminder that these are just my opinions based off the thought that less outplay = more likely to be broken Which characters do you guys think are broken? (Challenge: try to keep it civil in the comments lol) EDIT: 2/10 heroes have been fixed 👀
I feel like junk combo could ve argued its esentialy insta death, the cooldown gives him mobility to engage, reposition or escape, ult is a better reaper ult, he esentialy has no downsize to just spam until something dies and he has a tracer pulse bomb on cooldown
110% Junk. I am curious about your thoughts on the counterplay that made him avoid the list. For me, it's mine being super overtuned as damage to oneshot, a boop, and mobility on top of getting two. With only one, using it to go in means you take more risks as you have to do more damage. Or if you use it for damage, that means you can't use it to engage or disengage, making the play riskier. Also the trap. Such terrible design since it's annoying to spot, and means insta death for basically any character including tanks. Most of all though, it just makes the game unfun as it really doesn't fit the pace of OW. The charm of the game to me is that it's fast and hectic and needing to slow down and scan the floor for a tiny trap to not get insta one shot just sucks to play against.
@@BlanekdChequei realy like your idea to make junk only have 1 mine however i belive the main problem with the mine is just the raw utility it gives because being able to avoid dive, do damage and deal with flying characters is something the mine does welland nerfing it to 1 could led to junk being a sitting duck so for me it should be a damage nerf from max 100 to 80 so its a clean one shot this way if the junk hits the combo at range it would not be such a crutch but the main problem i have with the combo is how much it punishes characters like lucio, tracer, reaper, ball, genji, symetra, briguita, etc because your just punished for playing like you should do either diving or being close by getting displaced, one shot or just lose a ton of health and overall it just sukcs. Rollers too could be nerfed a bit mostly because dying to spam that just randomly fell to your side is dumb. The trap i feel could be reworked to do bleed damage and a slow but make it destructable or even allow mobility heroes to leave out of it for example 50 damage the initial hit 50 when leaving and 40 bleed at least like this you can survive Finaly just nerf the ult damage its just a reaper ult at distance that almost one shots tanks, you cant even transcendence it and only killing it or using beat assures you no one dies of course if the junk does not just stall 3 of the 10 seconds it lasts
@@andrewochoa7579 Junk and doom didn't make the list since their one shot combos aren't actually one shots and it requires them to be close to be consistent. The drawbacks to that are its way easier to avoid that range, outplay them with abilities or kill them. Versus widow or hanzo no range is safe, you can't reactively dodge them and can't win the 1v1 if they hit their first shot. Still very annoying to play against junk though.
@@BlanekdCheque Pretty much what I just replied to the other guy. I will add though trap is definitely a outdated ability unless they plan to keep adding CC to the game. If I made the list bigger than top10 I would have added junk.
One thing I'd like to add about suzu, Swift Step makes it much harder to bait suzu out of kiriko. It cleanses so if you debuff kiriko she won't suzu and it makes her damage immune + move her away so even after you engaged you still have yet to bait suzu. A lot more work than to bait Ana's nade or even immortality field. I'd either increase swift step's cooldown by 2 seconds or remove the cleanse from it.
@@CodenameLavender so what if it has "protection" in the official name of the ability, nobody calls bastion's turret "configuration: recon" lmfao and suzu was advertised as an anti debuff
Nah Anas nade works the same way. It’s very strong against a diving dps and even better than sleep dart bc it’s much more consistent + it heals you. If you hit the sleep it’s an easy kill but a dps has to bait both cooldowns to have a chance of winning
@@pibble9207 Difference is when you bait those cooldowns Ana is still there, not on the other side of the map. Plus she also has reasons to use those cooldowns outside of defensive purposes, Kiriko rarely does.
I think the problem with sombra is not only her stealth hack, also the ability to TP from Everywhere and INSTANTLY, doing it without animation make her take almost 0 risk. at least suzu and inmortality have throw animation and need to impact to save you. still broken tho
well we got that wish checked out but in exchange we got her able to single out and kill any healer that doesnt have a way to self heal or good self defense so.... basically even more kiriko/anas, yay?
as an ana main, i think having a shared cooldown might break her coz she'll lose the only (other) escape she has if dived given that her mobility is really poor i do agree that she's op but shared cooldown might be overkill
They should just make it so that anti nade blocks 90% of heals/self heal. Its still going to be strong but tanks with no shield should have WAYYYY less of a rougher times against ana
@@trash0175 if you want to reduce the anti effect to 90%, you gotta pump up the duration, tho. I don't get all the Ana hate recently tbh. She's one of the hardest Supports to play well and everything she does offensively costs her her survivability. If an Ana seems oppressive to you, that's most of the time because she's simply uncontested. A good Tracer, Widow or Kiriko can impact games in a way Ana never could. Ana was always way more dependent on her team helping her survive than other Supports were. Yes, she's pretty strong, but she also has clear weaknesses. There's a reason she immediately fell out of the META since Monkey isn't META anymore. Ana is way more dive niche than people realize. In basically every other archetype of comp, she's outshined by other Supports and even in dive she is contested.
@@DarthCookieOW ana is one of my mains, and the simple problem is that she is way too good. You can't use the argument she is hard to play, because while it is true she is, people can master her and use her to her full strength. Her heal/dmg is good, no falloff, anti nade is an easy kill on anyone it lands on, and sleep is just a free kill too. Imo, balancing her would just be to increase her cooldowns a bit, so she is less impactful on fights
@joechisman5909 The thing is, tho, she isn't _too_ good. I main her as well. I am GM1 on support and regularly scrim and play for higher level collegiate. Not to flex, but just to show that I kinda know what I'm talking about. Ana is a support that excels at creating opportunities for your teammates. She enables (dive) engages. In every other relevant metric - survivability, damage and healing output, mobility, defensive cooldowns - she is outshined by other supports and, like I already said, in every other archetype than standard dive, you usually don't play her over other supports such as Kiriko, Zen, Illari or Bap. You can see right now perfectly that, now that Orisa is the most OP Tank (Tanks are the most OP role in the game. Every comp building revolves around what's the strongest Tank, always. The problem with Tank rn is that there is only one per team, so they get focussed most of the time and specifically counterswapped. Also, like I said already as well, damage output overall is just nuts, melting Tanks super fast), Ana straight fell out of the META. Because Bap, Illari, and even Zen are way better in poke/rush playstyles. Is Ana decently versatile and can work in a lot of comps on ladder? Yes. Can you make impactful plays with her cooldowns? Yes, that's her only strength. Is she utterly broken, warps every game solely around her and has next to no counterplay? No, not at all. Every CD of her is a skillshot projectile that can be interacted with, in many cases dodged, and straight up be cleansed as well. Kiriko can literally just deny the entirety of Ana's kit, for example.
@@DarthCookieOW i disagree. Ana is one of the best designed hero for overwatch 1. She was perfect there. But u gotta realise now its a 5v5 and she also receive healer passive to keep her alive. Ana is literally one of the best duelist in the game, sure a good tracer can kill her, but same can be said the other way around. Thats why i think nade should at least be heal reduction (a strong one). She can still duel, her effectiveness is pretty much the same. But it does reduce headaches for other players
I think a balancing act for Anti-Heal Grenade could be that antiheal only stops heals activated upon you, not the heals you make yourself. So, it still disables pocket healing like it's supposed to, but still enables characters who NEED to heal to play the game to keep playing, and requires the ana to be more smart about who she targets with her 'nade. It's really dumb that Ana doesn't let junker queen play the game, on top of all other tanks
@@yeatle this would also make a character like Mauga a counter to Ana, as he doesn't *technically* heal you with his aura, he simply gives you lifesteal. It also makes the grenade doing damage a lot more fair. An AOE heal/antiheal that does 75 damage or whatever it does is just not fair. It's damage on an ability that removes your ability to gain that health back. Like you said, that's completely broken and unfair.
Another change they could do is make grenade a decaying anti-heal. Heal nullification, then 100% heal reduction, then 80%/60%/40%/20%/flat 10% for a second, then it goes away. A flat like 4 seconds of heal nullification in relation to this makes the antiheal nade as it is rn seem fucking ridiculous, because it is.
Honestly they should just make blue beam a resource similar to DVA matrix and Illari's healing beam. You have a limited amount and if you deplete the bar it takes a second or two to recover. Then change Valk so that it gives you unlimited blue beam for its duration (Valk would still be the same, just with this additional change). That way it rewards smart blue beam usage, allows for skill expression (choosing between using Valk for survival or as a combo ult for example), and gives Mercy players more ways to coordinate with their team that isn't just stand behind a wall while alleviating the frustrations some players have with the ability.
@@Yomuxxis Res? Did we forget about Res? Also, there is rarely ever a point playing Mercy where you're just holding blue beam without switching to heal beam. It just gives a window for counterplay. Being able to use the small window where her blue beam is on cooldown or low on resources gives the enemy team a window to push that Ashe with a Mercy pocket holding high ground and also forces Mercy's to be thoughtful with it's usage while keeping the things that make it strong. It doesn't really change the way it's used nor remove its strengths, it just gives it more counterplay.
@@KingAssRipper69 Honestly though I think it'd be pretty cool and I feel like they'd enjoy it after a while. Mercy's who get really good at her movement for example get rewarded because instead of using their ult for survival, they get to consistently use it as a ult combo tool so Mercy's who waste their Valks from bad positioning stand out from the good one's. Moments where Mercy's use their entire blue beam bar to facilitate a good play feels even more rewarding because you know that they had to commit hard to make that happen. Or when they go Battle Mercy and glock someone down, it feels even more funny and intentional because they used it that way instead of to combo (like some Ana's use their Nano for trolly stuff). Edit/TLDR: I don't think they'd react as negatively as you think. It'd be kinda goated.
@@eagerinspirityou totally misunderstood what they said. mercys MAIN source of utility is damage boost, her other one is on a 30 second cd and is not an ability that can b used consistently. they are asking what she would be doing during the boost’s downtime/when it is on cd. healing a full hp target? yeah thats not a good idea. that would just make her a healbot. theyre better off reworking her atp.
I agree that supports are a bit too strong right now but I dont want it to revert to the time where supports had to hide all game or just get executed. Hopefully they can tune back their busted abilities or rework them to be more fair but not so much it makes them feel awful to play.
The video didn't state that Support are too strong rn, tho? (Btw, they aren't. Tanks suffer because DPS can delete them in like 2 seconds. The most "broken" Supports are those that are DPS hybrids.)
@yarn7344 No, they don't. Tanks blow up too fast currently - that is definitely not because of Supports only. Damage output is way too high rn and CC is reintroduced to the DPS role. A simple, auto aiming Cass nade will literally blow up a Tank instantly. I am GM1 Support, regularly scrim 4.4k+ for collegiate OW, and also have regular team sessions with a pro Contenders coach. Such crying takes as "Supports too strong" are just dumbing down way more complex problems way too much - and are off mark. Support has the least carry impact in the game. The more damage your team takes/the more damage the enemy team puts out comparatively to your team, the more you are getting forced to heal to keep then alive - taking away uptime for other, actually impactful plays.
Thank god someone else said Ana. As a tank player Ana just feels so aids to fight. In the current meta where everyone does ridiculous damage which is kept in check by ridiculous healing, getting anti naded even as someone tanky like ram holding block is basically an insta kill and sleep dart being able to confirm 5 abilities from her and her teammates (anti nade included) since there's such a long wakeup animation again makes it feel like a tank instakill since she's never missing against such a big hitbox
@@disgracetwt5513 imagine (just imagine) that the ana waits for the optimal time to use the sleep dart. if the ana is sleep darting your bubble/barrier then she is just retarded. the only real counter is suzu and if you're cleansing the sleep then you're not cleansing her other ability that guarantees a team fight win most of the time it lands
nah im an ana main and she is a lil too strong since OW2. All she needs is her nade to change from 100% healing block to just reduction of heals. Eating/blocking nade and sleep isnt that easy when you are fighting on point lmao. Her sleep is fine though
@@trash0175 How in the world is she OP? A never before seen insane ana player with 100% sleep dart accuracy might be broken, but that player would be broken on half the hero roster. Even in top 500 her sleep dart isn't broken. Her anti is strong, but can be suzu'd and it's difficult to hit a large nade without being out of position. Ana is arguably the least "broken" support along with lucio and zen, they're charecters with a strong impact but who can be easily punished when they make mistakes. If you're a dps then as long as you're not just the worse player you can punish ana or zen easily any time they're out of position, while if they play well they can carry a game. Lucio on the other hand is very difficult to kill but he's focused on mobility and doesn't bring as much else to the table so it's a fair trade off. Compare that to every other support in the game who all have some bs get out of jail free for zero skill card. Baptiste has 3 lives and vertical mobility, kiriko has a literal tp to another dimension on a 7 second cool down, moira can fade a million miles away on a 6 second cooldown etc. Ana isn't even the best support right now, she just is popular because she's fun, and because the meta favors her.
ana allways been the most broken hero of the game, every tank and flanker dps know this, absolute worst hitbox of the game, sleep is a mc cree body shot, it's 100% on most tanks, nade is an ultimate every 10 sec that last 3.5, better than a pulse bomb...when I play in plat what I see is most ana are bad, they use cooldown randomly, if you are smart ana is best hero to climb, and she can carry dps, it's my least played and I have 80% wr, it's cheat mode hero tbh @@lukasg4807
I think supports are one of the hardest roles to balance for sure. There are a lot of problems with supports not being able to save somebody, and that's why these abilities of life grip, suzu, and lamp are in the game. Supports let you make up for a teammate's mistake when the enemy outplayed them. That shouldn't be the case. They should heal and provide teammates with extra resources, but never make up for their misplays.
@@remittri healing is for expected mistake.. There’s no way anyone can play this game without taking damage. However support abilities does help with abnormal/non expected mistake.. usually involving the enemy’s hero ability or just teammates carelessness. For example if someone is positioned badly, you can pull them to your team as lifeweaver. Or if the tank didnt react in time for anti nade, you can suzu them etc.
What you're wanting here is Supports not being able to carry games. That would make them the by far worst role (they are the weakest carry role already) to play and nobody would play Support anymore.
@@DarthCookieOW Being able to carry games shouldn't involve not letting your teammate make mistakes. It's a really delicate balance. Zen can absolutely carry games just by shredding everybody with discord, but he doesn't have to bail anybody out consistently to do it. A Lucio can carry games by consistently booping people out of position. There are a lot of cool ways to make supports able to carry. I think supports have a lot of room for creativity, but the way that it feels right now is just as a dps or a tank it even a support, if you diff somebody in a duel or on a flank because you outplayed them, they just have a Kiri pop out of thin air and suzu them and kill you. It doesn't encourage outplaying or predictions or anything, it just encourages playing characters who never have to commit to anything, and that, in my opinion, is not fun.
It's "hard to believe" Zen has had more meta playtime than any other in OW1 because it's not true. Lucio, Brig, DVa and Ana have all spent longer in the meta than Zen. You can check stats lab for data on this. He's clearly right up there and it doesn't affect any of the other points made, but still.
i mean zen is strong but there is atleast counterplay to zen, if the enemy picks sombra and shes not complete garbage its an insta switch for every zen
If Ana wasn't the favorite support child from OW1 and was a new hero introduced in OW2 people would be calling for her head. Instead of balancing Ana's ridiculous cooldowns, they made Kiriko which all that did was make Counterwatch more prevalent and gave us Suzu which as stated before is also broken.
Ana is one of the least broken supports. She's actually killable unlike baptiste with 3 lives or half the support roster who will just disappear from your screen in the middle of the fight
First time someone but me actually calls out ana. Thanks. Its actually my main reason why you cant just remove or increase cooldown on suzu. Without kiriko, Anas would just run the game. Glad they at least gave me a total 12 seconds before i get to sleep again as tank. So much fun in those times. Also i dont like the lack of good counterplay to ramattras nemesis punches. You give him space for free or kills for free. Im okay with it piercing barriers, but maybe let us eat it. After all it feels a lot like a shotgun.
Yeatle this is a HIGHLY needed video. These are things that need adjusting to make 5v5 work, but also things that I think make 5v5 lame. Mercy for example dmg boosting someone was good in OW1, but now that pocketed DPS just takes over the game in 5v5, it’s way more valuable. Also rez instead of bringing back 16% of your team, brings back 20% in 5v5, a proportionally stronger play. And that’s not even to say that if you rez a tank in OW2, they are gigatanks so getting a rez on that player is more like 30% of your team’s value. Also, her movement is busted for OW2. I don’t mind superjump being an official thing now, but it was made far too easy and versatile. In OW1 you could predict where she would go, but now there is seemingly no logic to it or pattern. She can initiate the jump at any point before or after reaching who she is GAing to, she can “bounce” backwards away from them, or use the teammate to slingshot past them to nearly double the distance from OW1. Trying to clutch a hard game in OW2 is so infuriating when they do this, you can’t catch her on a flanker if you are in a desperate situation and have only a few seconds to survive nest their team and make your play. Then the Mercy player has the audacity to say outskilled… when all they did was make their DPS teammate farm your team and win 1v1s with less skill required (and rezed if they somehow lose with such an overwhelming advantage). That’s not even to talk about Zen discord or Widow hs (can just leave discord on single tank so they lose their ability to carry the game or stay outside of literally every other hero’s range uncontested on Widow), it’s almost like in 5v5 those will never be balanced and just can’t be in the game in this format. But that’s the thing, I like having a pacifist hero like Mercy in OW, or Zen who has high skill with his dmg and positioning but free to land abilities, or Widow who is the definitive sniper hero. However, 5v5 just limits the game and these abilities will always be oppressive no matter how they balance it. Bring back 6v6.
Widow is the only character that can’t be fixed or at least the only character I can’t think of a rework for. For them to “fix” widow would be a complete overhaul of the character. Other characters just need simple tweaks except for sombra but I have a cool idea for her.
@@d00mnoodle62 ok so sombras whole identity is to flank and spread hack on people right. So instead of just having an ability that locks on why not change that to something a bit more engaging and fun. Brig is a character that has a big AOE that heals BUT she has to proc it by dealing damage to enemies. So I think we should have that same mentality with sombra. Not only that but I think it would be incredibly fun to make her a melee character bcz we don’t have one in the DPS category anymore. Some cool ass data knife looking thing would be freaking awesome. She would turn into the Spy we all want her to be. She has a data knife that when she attacks someone with her data knife it’ll proc the hack effect. But the silence part of the hack doesn’t automatically trigger when proc’d. Silence means you can’t use abilities and can cancel certain abilities during their animations like sigma ult, Moira ult, and high noon. Instead of the silence happening automatically can trigger it whenever you want from where ever as long as the person stays hacked. So you go in get a few hits to apply the hack (not just one hit) TP out and can apply the silence whenever needed. Now this does seem pretty broken at first but I have a solution. Back when she was released invis had a 15 second timer on it and so did her translocator. I think we should combine both of those abilities together and keep the 15 second duration. So it would work kinda like tracer where ever you activate the invis is where you can TP back to. Now she has a duration on her invis and is melee based now it seems pretty weak and situational so to compensate for the lack of range and severely limiting her movement time for another new ability. She can throw her data knife wherever kinda like JQ it helps proc the hack and deals sizable damage not only that but wherever you throw it you can TP to that location throw it at a wall, to a health pack, and even if you hit enemies with it. Hitting enemies with it allows for you to TP right on top of them. Ult would stay the same tho. So I think this idea for a rework not only stays true to the characters core identity while also making her feel more fair to play against and more fun to play as. Super long but I hope you like this idea.
@@rage_tv4493 this would make her much fairer to play against since you can anticipate the hack, although i think she'd need some ranged weapon too that isn't on a cooldown, maybe keep her pistol the way it is. This is an idea that has potential i think, gj
if u remove rez behind the wall..... then just remove the ability. it is rarely a good idea to rez the open and most rez techs try to put behind cover faster. even in valk rez in the open is bad. putting dam boost on a cooldown is one of the worst things because then her beam wont be connected then the pocket wont be a flight path anymore and she won't be able to prop bounce which is an essential tech for mercy survivability, ig u can switch to heal but then you are reducing a support direct value for some enjoyability
I think dying in an unfair way is part of the game. All games without full knoledge of the situatio are unfair to some extend. Jet noone complains about poker being broken.
Mercy brings me so much pain. She wasn't nearly the problem she is now in 6v6 because off tanks could punish her for an out of position rez. In 5v5 she can be such a pain to play against. Most tanks are truly powerless against mercy and have no choice but to rely on DPS or supports to stop rez.
Would like to see someone mention mercy rez being just as fast to cast for a 150 or 200 hp hero as it is for a 700 hp one. Even if there isnt a difference depending on hp pool size (Would be a little confusing when talking about D.va), another idea is that perhaps it would depend on the role of the character being rezzed, as then you wouldnt have Zarya or Junker Queen being rezzed nearly as fast as Bastion, like they would if it did depend on hp
or maybe dont let her rez heroes with full health, make it half or even less its so stupid that you can rez a fucking ball with 700hp in 2 seconds that took me over a minute to even fucking kill in the first place
As a zen main I agree, discord is pretty broken. My solution would be to make it have a cooldown. For example make it 10 seconds and give it a partial refresh if the enemy is killed. You could also add a healing factor, for example if someone kills a discorded target it could heal the person that kill it and those who got an assist, that way if you just discord the tank you would be losing value. Also discord should be a 15% defense reduction
Widow can be fixed by making her a mobile flanker who's ult one shots and her smg does more damage, and her sniper does 100 damage but it poisons over time. Widow is unfun to play and play against. Hanzo is weird because 9/10 times he's an easy skill but that one tome you die its either he got lucky or he's genuinely good
I feel you didn't talk enough about characters that are broken because of reasons other than overpowered abilities. For example, how some tanks still haven't been able to adjust from 6v6 to 5v5, or how difficult it is to balance tank busters like reaper and bastion.
tbh reaper is not tank buster anymore, more like a "sometimes winston buster" aside from that reaper is utterly and totally useless, but bastion is fine now, he atleast can compete with soldier and sojourn now and is not reliant on a pocket
I like this, people say Genji is broken bc of nano blade but thats two ultimates the rest of his kit makes him hard to play against the evolving overheal meta. Ive gone in for a dash right melee combo just to see a kiri or bap suzu or lamp and now my cooldowns and life are forfeit
These are the most reasonable and well explained takes I've ever witnessed about this game and haters will still be hating, it's crazy. Good stuff man, I would also add Dva to the list because of her insane burst dmg that casually one taps any squishy, extra life ult, huge survivability + mobility and defense matrix that eats almost anything
make wido and hanzo deal 150 and have 50 in bleed or poison, so healer can have counter play and still keep the one shot to any extent. Have zen orb increase ability time or decrease or ult charge gain, ana anti should just decease healing.
with bap have his immortal field let you get to 0 hp but give you a new type of hp like shield in reverse counting down not up quickly like 5 sec till death.
zen discord orb should be on a cooldown so he cant just put it on WHOEVER HE WANTS WHENEVER HE WANTS. It should also last like ~5-6seconds on the target so it can be a coordinated go at the target like "putting discord on X player, everyone swap"
But wouldn't reducing the shared cooldown on ana be more broken? Imagine throwing a nade to the skybox before the fight and landing a second one at the same time
Great video, I feel like what you said about Ana having two similar cooldowns reins true to most supports in the game. Kiriko has two abilities that can cleanse, mercy's kit is all about healing/damage boosting/resurrecting one singular person on the team, moira is all about dps... etc. I feel like this makes the game more of a rock paper scissors than a fair fight of skill and preferences, meaning players are forced to switch off much more often. To be honest it's probably a bigger problem with tanks but I feel tanks would be much harder to fix without reverting to a 6v6 gamestyle.
The problem when playing Doom is that the enemy team is just battling each other at that point because one person will charge you then you kill someone unsuspecting because it wasnt even their fault that you got charged to begin with. That's why probably since season 1 or 2 that I realized he's a character that counters stupid players really well. If you're charged blatantly on purpose every time you block in a single game. More often then not that's just gonna be your playstyle for that game in specific. Get charged and assassinate someone unsuspecting. It lowers his skill ceiling drastically within an instant. Obviously this shouldn't ever be changed until all of his counters are because tbh it's all he's got right now. And on the games where you can't get charged and there's nothing but counters. You're just gonna do nothing but bait cooldowns and attention. Which ofc is value. But that only goes so far with the fact that this game is just solo queue heaven but at it's core is a team game. Just doesn't work.
In Hanzo's defense if you're aware of him and move accordingly his accuracy takes a huge hit. Unless of course, luck; RNG's just too general a factor in Overwatch to put any relative blame on him anyway. You can outplay him by paying attention to his positioning and moving around him, Widow on the other hand is hitscan... so yeah.
I agree that you can outstrafe his shots from far if you see him but from closer it's pretty much hitscan. I think the real problem is when you pop a corner or he pops a corner and it's a headshot or if you don't know he has a angle you also just die if he hits the hs. Too many instances of dying because hanzo isn't permanently pinged.
@@yeatle That's true, especially with sonic arrow. Realistically all you could do is listen for sound cues and distance yourself. I can't help but think that's just an crappy game design intentionally left in there by the devs disregarding balance. In the end Hanzo would always have a strong niche as he is designed.
@@yeatle I believe Hanzo and Widow can be dealt with team effort, just like pocketed Pharah and Echo. Spotting the sniper and forcing them out of the nest is the usual treatment and I saw it work in Overwatch too. I'd like to hear your opinion if you played high level team queue against these heroes last season, was it any different? I believe there would be significant difference.
@@yeatlesame for widow actually she never was broken and especially with the small ass hitboxes of new heroes, it is a miracle when you hit a shot. And even when you do, it is most likely because the enemy was unaware (wich is a mistake, that you punished) and he was unaware because the enemy team was enforcing your team, because they don’t have a hero with zero damage output on their side… Widow comes with enormous trade-offs, unlike sojourn, and I could never understand why we nerfed her, while she was already hardly playable on 5 points out of the entire map pool… I strongly disagree that she deserves a spot on your list. And also, why not brig?
Finally someone said it ana is op. Idc if you need good aim with her is dogsh*t when you get anti or get your ult cancelled by sleep. And along side that she is like widow maker she just sits from narnia shooting her teammates and throwing nades everywhere. Thank you yeatle
Hard to understand why Junkrat would even be an honorable mention. He has literally never been meta as far as I can remember. If anything, I think he needs a buff. His play percentage has to be amongst the lowest for DPS heroes. If he were broken, he'd be played significantly more.
Ngl I expected a curveball where the Ball player said that Ball was broken. Understandable that you think he's not, though, as being cc'd is a death sentence.
Yeatle, as always you've hit it on the nail. These heroes do break the game and fixing them would make for a more balanced and more enjoyable OW experience. It sucks that as you once once, it's not a matter or skill, but a matter of imbalance. Also, in console playing against knm widows or hanzos is just not fun. May the gods of OW listen to your wise advice and thank you for your always insightful and intelligent content.
For Mercy I’d add that speed boost and no reload in Valk. She heals really fast in Valk so if Mercy’s try to mess you up even if you are incredible and hot your shots you take a bunch of damage and her gun is insanely easy to hit with. Imagine you’re Ashe, you have to Two tap a target that can move any direction very quickly and Mercy just has to hold M1
Most annoying thing about trying to cancel rez is that the rez target body blocks Mercy. Bullets should go through them. I shouldn't have to figure out what angle I can precisely hit her at in the 2 seconds I get to stop her. Also everyone should rez with the same HP, like 250. So all of the squishies rez at full HP, but most tanks would be half health.
i really hope someday widowmaker gets reworked into a poison focused character. maybe having multiple mines or ways to apply poison and then a damage buff on her snipe to poisoned targets, removing the possibility of the oneshot until shes already outplayed you by landing other things
Hot Take: OW2 is balanced well enough for these abilities to exist in the ways they do. They are interesting gimmicks, and it doesn't feel like you're forced to use them. It takes a lot of skill and gamesense to use these abilities correctly and not waste them.
or you can just use da funni button that is on a 15-25 second cooldown to completely counter almost every ultimate ability (even if they are well placed) that also takes multiple fights to get.
I think i cool rework for ana would be for her nade and sleep to be a sort of bullet she has to load in, like hanzo switching types of arrows but with like more time(basically reload to get the ability) and could be fun to be able to shoot grenade/sleep across the map with hitscan, sounds broken but could work
What an incredible mind for balance you have, it makes the ana have to time and prepare her abilities well instead of having every answer on demand whenever she wants.
A combined cooldown cooldown for Ana's sleep dart and nade? That sounds pretty good. I foresee the choice will be nade most of the times (due to the heal, damage and heal deny combo), but still a way better idea than the rifle nerf blizzard temporarely did a while before Overwatch 2 was released.
Orissa for me isnt broken but just terribly inconsistent. To me it comes down to her skin spear. It blocks all hits can and projectiles while reducing beam and melee damage, it boops. Doom can punch her out of it but Rein can't pin her out of it. Ball can't really displace her with a direct hit (I think both should be cancelled out for this interaction). I think if beam damage wasn't reduced and melee damage wasn't reduced at all onto Orissa's spin spear that would make more sense since it would be in line with the other defense matrices. And just have doom and Rein have the same interaction with it. Either both bounce off or both cancel it
I think the answer for Widow is to put her one shot, on a timed cooldown. Like a button that you press that has a window in which you can do one shots. Being able to do it, across map, away from the fight, every 3 seconds, without having to use any abilities is just too strong in one tank world. Even with nerf. Getting three solo kills on full health targets in 10 seconds is not healthy balance.
@@Azarthes Yeah, something like that for the same kind of time window. Some kind of audio queue to announce that everybody's in danger, so there's some kind of counterplay. Rather than jumping around a corner, and dying 0.76 seconds later.
I saw i suggestion from another person on this thread, they suggested Hanzo and widow headshots deal 195 damage or so but then they deal 5 damage (in poison/bleed) over like 2.5 seconds. So, targets can be quickly healed if headshoted but snipers are still rewarded for the headshot in 1v1s
Illari is most broken for ranked play. High dps gun that has bigger hit registration than any dps hero. An ult that can wipe 1-2 people. Mobility ability that leads into easy shots landed, peel, and high ground. A no brain pylon, and a 56 winrate in GM as a SUPPORT
For Ana, make the sleep wake up animation faster, or maybe sound based, like if ennemy players are really close to you, you wake up much faster, idk And for nade, make it reduce healing received instead of totally blocking it
even better, make it so you can either be slept or antied at a time, like if you're sleeping and you get hit by nade, the antiheal won't apply but you'll still take the damage
@@Ale-km3ux thats really weird change ngl. I agree with the other dude’s idea. Anti should be reduced healing not 100% heal block. As for sleep.. I dont think it needs any change. Its a 14 seconds cooldown and a skill shot. Change ana’s ability too much and she’ll actually be useless. You have to remember she does not have any mobility and any unique passive of her own. And all of her ability needs to require some degree of aiming..
@@trash0175 like yeatle said, the problem isn’t one ability or the other, it’s the two of them combined There has to be a way to keep the one shot potential for ana while also preventing confirmed kills from 20 meters away
Okay. Im an ana main and very sensitive to people saying shes broken or something because she just isnt and shes starting to have nerf creep where shes just continuously tweaked down with no compensation anywhere (other than recent dart size increase which is extremely nice). But having sleep and nade on a shared cd, maybe 7s, would be a change i could get behind. Would make her 10x more fun
Just had a game where I landed 3 grenades in a row on to a Hanzo. That's 360 dmg in like 2 seconds. Guess who died. Me. He lived cause of a double pocket, no imort or abilities, just heals. If thats isn't broken, idk what is
0:50 As a widow main, just play widow for a few games, learn how to move with a d better while shooting or healing and don't jump, it has counterplay, just applie those things and make them a habit. Also, ofc learn how to counter comp wise, either by having a widow player that challenges, going dive, or playing better angles
Just about every tank main I see is crying over lack of balance and basically only play because of low queue times. So personally, it's probably about the same as when you played last. Some noticeable changes to who's META but a pretty same old experience for casuals
I've always said the most broken hero in my opinion is ana, she has good damage, she has good healing she has 2 REALLY IMPACTFUL cooldowns and her ult is one of if not the best ultimate in the game, and then you put all of that ontop of a hero who has pretty decent dueling capability it isn't fun.
I'm a fan of removing all CC moves from the dps role. Junk should get trap removed and replace it with a proximity claymore. Decrease amount of bounces before explosion on his primary fire as well. Cassidy's hinder is just a step backwards as well, imo. Give him a frag that you can angle off walls maybe. Make Sombra a support so that hack can still be apart of her kit. Translocator could be an AOE radius that gives all players within it the support passive. Hack could be used on teammates and enemies. It coudl give a healing boost and perhaps a slight cooldown reduction to allies. EMP the same effects but for multiple targets as well as negatively effecting enemies. Getting hindered, frozen, hacked, or trapped after a tank CCs you and you're displaced by a support is what frustrates a lot of players and tanks. I like Brigs bash on support tho that's great.
I think everyone who complains about widow and Hanzo are the ones who are playing in the top lobbies, where way fewer people are. Any nerf to widow/hanzo that made them more balanced in gm lobbies would ruin them in the metals
I like how specifically for mercy you threw in the “good on mercy players for using the tools at their disposal” to stop the 20 paragraph rant they were about to comment
ay nice video! I agree, esecially about ana. I play tank and I'll easily have a game where half my deaths are more, are all to sleep and nade combo. It's too easy to hit on tanks, cooldowns are too short
Mercy easily. Unlike every other character in the game when mercy gets pressured out she can still do her job 100% with no problem and thats the issue. If an Anas in the back uncontested you can at least force her to stop healing by shooting not with mercy. Not only is that impossible but they have her that stupid life steal passive ffs
Bap and Kiri because of immortality. Zaria for basically immortality. Mercy and Zen for too much damage. Mercy again for taking the value of picks away. Ana for having the death combo. Sojourn for being Sojourn. Sombra for being able to freely hack at any time. Widow and Hanzo for one shot.
I don’t see how people don’t see your take. I swear I’m always the only one who thinks that? If her Pylon is down, she’s practically unkillable in a 1v1, as you either have to focus her Pylon or her (who is shooting at you & taking you down in 3 shots). She also doesn’t have dmg fall off, so she can hit you from 10 miles away. Also, what happened to the whole “No more one shots” from the OW community? She may not “1 shot” but it sure does feel like it. Side rant: this goes into Mei , why can Mei one shot from across the map with a dink to a head? She’s not a sniper? Widow & Hanzo I understand. There’s so many other issues I have with many hero’s in this Heckin game…
shes a dogshit supp without her pylon, she can only heal close to you and her healing is limited, the only thing shes good at is being a dps (damage, ult)
@@ShibaInu102 Mei is dependent on accuracy & line of site ( LOS ) I think it is fine because only high levels would use the right click accurately. If you are playing Tracer then it is too bad
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Sombra is now the "break in case Ball/Doom"
So true, she was the same in ow 1 but now it's more true than ever.
My most 2 played heroes🙃
I get Sombra & Orisa rageswaps in every single match… even in QP
@@TheWorldTurntle It's because doom is in every damn game nowadays.
@@danreef3because people realize he’s the only fun character in the game and people don’t want others to have fun (my opinion)
Tbf she’s always been that lmao
Imagine if ball did not get cc'd every 2 seconds
no critbox 95% of his uptime, 300+ shield on demand, area denial and the fastest movement in the game while most of the cc has been stripped from the game. Thank god hes harmless if you peel/get peeled.
I agree the cc is kind of ridiculous but it's almost impossible to kill a good ball if you don't cc him. Maybe if you discord him & your whole team looks at him MAYBE he'll die but otherwise nah. Also doesn't help you can never crit him if he's in ball form which he is 90 percent of the time.
Sure a good ball may be hard to kill but please remenber that you can just wait for him to engage and either a bastion deletes him, reaper deals well with him, sombra yea, cass nade and fan, beside that and most tanks like dva, zarya, doom, can peel for you support this season have tons of healing and great utility to make a ball just kill no one and even if he gets a good minefield remenber ana can break most of it with nade, doom and sombra just denie it, also i forgot junquer queen knife makes ball and winston just die if hit by it all in all ball takes to much effort to avoid all this cooldowns or bait them to then go in and either get inmediatly killed or kill no one because the primary fire does not do enough damage and the amount of burst healing is too much not saying he is wothless just that its easier for others to do more also lucio amp up makes him do no damage to him
Imagine if ball didn't slam into my team every 2 seconds being annoying
@@andrewochoa7579 That is doom for you but without the "unkillable" part
Doomfist being in the thumbnail but not in the video is truly a Doomfist moment of all time.
He doesn’t deserve it, his skill ceiling is to high.
maybe the point being that Doomfist is one of the tanks that gets fucked by all this the most, lol.
@@geucamoleas someone who one tricks doom I agree with this statement
The problem with doom is that it's an argument of extremes. If hes strong in a game with little counters and used by a competent player, everyone (let's be honest though the most vocal role is support) gets up in arms over how they get "destroyed by doomfist", and that's not even to mention all of the *crazy good* doom one tricks out there that actually *nuke* lobbies. But if every person in the match switches to counter him, or if the person playing him just has no idea what they're doing, he explodes and either is forced to swap or is "throwing" the entire game. Doesn't help he's in the tank role, the most unfun to play role right now balance wise according to most of the community.
It is not about skill celling, doom is a hero that only can do thing in front of enemy face in a short distance with reasonable reaction time. That's make tons of counter plays.
i really like the old zarya, when she used to bubble her teammates. Now 90% of bubble are used on herself and it makes the hero less interactive
Old Rein/Zarya was such a nice, leisurely combo. "Bubble in 2" on comms every 8 seconds or so... the sweet sound of energy gain.
@@defragsbinyeah rein zarya memories are pretty much one of the the only reasons anyone wants 6v6 back. Everything else was misery pain and suffering lmao
I mean, the new Zaria buff was for her teammates bubbles not her own
@@cbaileychampwrong blizzard shill
they should make 1 bubble exclusive to teammates only, second u can use either way.
Some of these things aren't that bad in isolation, but when they stack, it's really frustrating. E.g. Kiri & Bap together might not be the world's best support duo, but they have regen burst (nerfed in last patch, at least), lamp, TP & suzu. That's a lot of get-out-of-jail cards, and these abilities punish heroes with 'steady' damage.
Shoot someone in the head with widow/hanzo/soj? No problem into bap/kiri -- they can't predict to save teammates from a one-shot because there's basically no warning or wind-up. A bap or kiri isn't going speculatively use suzu/lamp 'just in case' someone eats a headshot.
OTOH, that's 4 abilities that basically counter 'regular', steady, predictable damage. If Winston/Ball/Tracer/Soldier etc. whittle someone's health down, the bap and kiri have multiple seconds to plan out and use their abilities to save them. The Kiri's TP/suzu combo is particularly irritating when you're punishing someone who's been separated from their team.
This then feeds into the next problem: Mercy. The only counter to instant kills is rez -- you cannot predict and block a one-shot, but you sure as hell can rez it, esp. when you're playing into things close to mirror comps with no ability to rush down and stop a rez (and hell, I camp rez like crazy as Ball, but half the time it's just not possible to deny because of map geometry & glitches).
Mercy also feeds into one-shot comps by increasing the one-shot distance for practically all high-burst hitscan heroes, as well as reducing the charge time breakpoints for heroes like Soj & Hanzo.
Mercy is basically a low-key pox on the game in a lot of ways. Running a double sniper mirror and the enemy team has Mercy and you have a Moira? You basically can't win. Same deal with running a mirrored echo or pharah.
idk double sniper mirrors nowadays are even at high ranked cause they're pretty vulnerable to a lot of stuff
like yeah mercy is better then moira in poke but that can be argued for any hero
like if you're playing rein brawl and one team has lucio and the other one doesn't one team is at a big advantage
@@darkcat6530 all fair points
Truth be told, Overwatch would likely need huge overhauls to the other roles to accommodate for this, but if you deleted Ana, Mercy, and maybe Zen (or reworked), and nerfed Bap and Kiri a bit, the game would be much, much more enjoyable. Ana powercrept the entire support role HARD with burst heals and best in class CC, and Tank balance pretty much always goes back to her effectiveness in the current meta. Mercy has always been the catalyst of problematic/braindead DPS, is not fun to play against in the slightest, and has always had an absolutely disproportionate level of effectiveness/value to the amount of skill required to play her. Zen could be fine with a rework but we don't trust Blizzard to do anything right, hey? Kiri's kit is still way too stacked despite the nerfs and Bap is maybe just a bit too strong, idk, I don't have as much conviction when talking about Bap's effectiveness.
I just wish supports were actually vulnerable. People are always like "just dive Ana lol" and then while trying you get slept, naded, speared, hindered, hacked, depressed, and then uninstall.
@@X19Virus bro i'm fine with nerfs to them but straight up delete would make me quit the game
@@X19Virus Ana's my support of choice, but I agree that she basically changed the game in a way that wasn't very healthy.
I'm surprised orisa isnt on this list as she can knock most people out of their ults and counters almost every tank in the game
orisa feels alot more impactful than what she is
The counter play is to wait for her cool-downs but they’re all like 6 seconds anyway so yeah fk orisa
no the counter play to orisa is to just ignore her and go for the sups or dps but espicially on the lower elos people dont get that and instead focus their whole dmg on orisa which is just feeding the supports@@westbrookmvp7826
but i have to add, that u need a tank that knows how to engange stm like dva or winton, with your hard stuck reinhardt you wont get far
or you know just pick zarya and watch the orisa switching instantly
it gets even better when you realize almost every spot is taken by a support.
and there is only one tank who's only broken because of ow2 rework
supports players are obviously oppressed,............. they need more buffs................
It's not almost every spot by a long shot.
4 spots are DPS, 1 is Tank and 5 are Support. With the last one being a pretty braindead take IMO. Also, except Mercy and the bad Ana take, every Support listed are the DPS hybrids that play a lot more like DPS in most cases. Guess why.
Don't forget Yeatle has a hard "Tanks are not broken" bias. Where's the unkillable duo of Ram and Orisa, for example?
@@DarthCookieOW I do not care
@@wooliewurl3471 🤡
Reminder that these are just my opinions based off the thought that less outplay = more likely to be broken
Which characters do you guys think are broken? (Challenge: try to keep it civil in the comments lol)
EDIT: 2/10 heroes have been fixed 👀
I feel like junk combo could ve argued its esentialy insta death, the cooldown gives him mobility to engage, reposition or escape, ult is a better reaper ult, he esentialy has no downsize to just spam until something dies and he has a tracer pulse bomb on cooldown
110% Junk. I am curious about your thoughts on the counterplay that made him avoid the list.
For me, it's mine being super overtuned as damage to oneshot, a boop, and mobility on top of getting two. With only one, using it to go in means you take more risks as you have to do more damage. Or if you use it for damage, that means you can't use it to engage or disengage, making the play riskier.
Also the trap. Such terrible design since it's annoying to spot, and means insta death for basically any character including tanks. Most of all though, it just makes the game unfun as it really doesn't fit the pace of OW. The charm of the game to me is that it's fast and hectic and needing to slow down and scan the floor for a tiny trap to not get insta one shot just sucks to play against.
@@BlanekdChequei realy like your idea to make junk only have 1 mine however i belive the main problem with the mine is just the raw utility it gives because being able to avoid dive, do damage and deal with flying characters is something the mine does welland nerfing it to 1 could led to junk being a sitting duck so for me it should be a damage nerf from max 100 to 80 so its a clean one shot this way if the junk hits the combo at range it would not be such a crutch but the main problem i have with the combo is how much it punishes characters like lucio, tracer, reaper, ball, genji, symetra, briguita, etc because your just punished for playing like you should do either diving or being close by getting displaced, one shot or just lose a ton of health and overall it just sukcs.
Rollers too could be nerfed a bit mostly because dying to spam that just randomly fell to your side is dumb.
The trap i feel could be reworked to do bleed damage and a slow but make it destructable or even allow mobility heroes to leave out of it for example 50 damage the initial hit 50 when leaving and 40 bleed at least like this you can survive
Finaly just nerf the ult damage its just a reaper ult at distance that almost one shots tanks, you cant even transcendence it and only killing it or using beat assures you no one dies of course if the junk does not just stall 3 of the 10 seconds it lasts
@@andrewochoa7579 Junk and doom didn't make the list since their one shot combos aren't actually one shots and it requires them to be close to be consistent. The drawbacks to that are its way easier to avoid that range, outplay them with abilities or kill them. Versus widow or hanzo no range is safe, you can't reactively dodge them and can't win the 1v1 if they hit their first shot. Still very annoying to play against junk though.
@@BlanekdCheque Pretty much what I just replied to the other guy. I will add though trap is definitely a outdated ability unless they plan to keep adding CC to the game. If I made the list bigger than top10 I would have added junk.
One thing I'd like to add about suzu, Swift Step makes it much harder to bait suzu out of kiriko. It cleanses so if you debuff kiriko she won't suzu and it makes her damage immune + move her away so even after you engaged you still have yet to bait suzu. A lot more work than to bait Ana's nade or even immortality field. I'd either increase swift step's cooldown by 2 seconds or remove the cleanse from it.
Why does everyone keep calling it a cleanse, yes that's a gimmick of the ability but it's called protection Suzu, it's meant to... Protect
Not debuff
@@CodenameLavender?? It literally is designed to debuff
@@CodenameLavender so what if it has "protection" in the official name of the ability, nobody calls bastion's turret "configuration: recon" lmfao and suzu was advertised as an anti debuff
Nah Anas nade works the same way. It’s very strong against a diving dps and even better than sleep dart bc it’s much more consistent + it heals you. If you hit the sleep it’s an easy kill but a dps has to bait both cooldowns to have a chance of winning
@@pibble9207 Difference is when you bait those cooldowns Ana is still there, not on the other side of the map. Plus she also has reasons to use those cooldowns outside of defensive purposes, Kiriko rarely does.
I think the problem with sombra is not only her stealth hack, also the ability to TP from Everywhere and INSTANTLY, doing it without animation make her take almost 0 risk. at least suzu and inmortality have throw animation and need to impact to save you. still broken tho
well we got that wish checked out but in exchange we got her able to single out and kill any healer that doesnt have a way to self heal or good self defense so.... basically even more kiriko/anas, yay?
as an ana main, i think having a shared cooldown might break her coz she'll lose the only (other) escape she has if dived given that her mobility is really poor
i do agree that she's op but shared cooldown might be overkill
They should just make it so that anti nade blocks 90% of heals/self heal. Its still going to be strong but tanks with no shield should have WAYYYY less of a rougher times against ana
@@trash0175 if you want to reduce the anti effect to 90%, you gotta pump up the duration, tho.
I don't get all the Ana hate recently tbh. She's one of the hardest Supports to play well and everything she does offensively costs her her survivability. If an Ana seems oppressive to you, that's most of the time because she's simply uncontested.
A good Tracer, Widow or Kiriko can impact games in a way Ana never could. Ana was always way more dependent on her team helping her survive than other Supports were.
Yes, she's pretty strong, but she also has clear weaknesses.
There's a reason she immediately fell out of the META since Monkey isn't META anymore.
Ana is way more dive niche than people realize. In basically every other archetype of comp, she's outshined by other Supports and even in dive she is contested.
@@DarthCookieOW ana is one of my mains, and the simple problem is that she is way too good. You can't use the argument she is hard to play, because while it is true she is, people can master her and use her to her full strength. Her heal/dmg is good, no falloff, anti nade is an easy kill on anyone it lands on, and sleep is just a free kill too. Imo, balancing her would just be to increase her cooldowns a bit, so she is less impactful on fights
@joechisman5909 The thing is, tho, she isn't _too_ good. I main her as well. I am GM1 on support and regularly scrim and play for higher level collegiate. Not to flex, but just to show that I kinda know what I'm talking about.
Ana is a support that excels at creating opportunities for your teammates. She enables (dive) engages. In every other relevant metric - survivability, damage and healing output, mobility, defensive cooldowns - she is outshined by other supports and, like I already said, in every other archetype than standard dive, you usually don't play her over other supports such as Kiriko, Zen, Illari or Bap.
You can see right now perfectly that, now that Orisa is the most OP Tank (Tanks are the most OP role in the game. Every comp building revolves around what's the strongest Tank, always. The problem with Tank rn is that there is only one per team, so they get focussed most of the time and specifically counterswapped. Also, like I said already as well, damage output overall is just nuts, melting Tanks super fast), Ana straight fell out of the META. Because Bap, Illari, and even Zen are way better in poke/rush playstyles.
Is Ana decently versatile and can work in a lot of comps on ladder? Yes.
Can you make impactful plays with her cooldowns? Yes, that's her only strength.
Is she utterly broken, warps every game solely around her and has next to no counterplay? No, not at all. Every CD of her is a skillshot projectile that can be interacted with, in many cases dodged, and straight up be cleansed as well. Kiriko can literally just deny the entirety of Ana's kit, for example.
@@DarthCookieOW i disagree. Ana is one of the best designed hero for overwatch 1. She was perfect there. But u gotta realise now its a 5v5 and she also receive healer passive to keep her alive. Ana is literally one of the best duelist in the game, sure a good tracer can kill her, but same can be said the other way around. Thats why i think nade should at least be heal reduction (a strong one). She can still duel, her effectiveness is pretty much the same. But it does reduce headaches for other players
I think a balancing act for Anti-Heal Grenade could be that antiheal only stops heals activated upon you, not the heals you make yourself. So, it still disables pocket healing like it's supposed to, but still enables characters who NEED to heal to play the game to keep playing, and requires the ana to be more smart about who she targets with her 'nade. It's really dumb that Ana doesn't let junker queen play the game, on top of all other tanks
That's actually a very clever change!
@@yeatle this would also make a character like Mauga a counter to Ana, as he doesn't *technically* heal you with his aura, he simply gives you lifesteal.
It also makes the grenade doing damage a lot more fair. An AOE heal/antiheal that does 75 damage or whatever it does is just not fair. It's damage on an ability that removes your ability to gain that health back. Like you said, that's completely broken and unfair.
Another change they could do is make grenade a decaying anti-heal. Heal nullification, then 100% heal reduction, then 80%/60%/40%/20%/flat 10% for a second, then it goes away. A flat like 4 seconds of heal nullification in relation to this makes the antiheal nade as it is rn seem fucking ridiculous, because it is.
Agree with your list. One thing I hate about supports besides their kit, is the fact that they have tiny and wonky hitboxes
Honestly they should just make blue beam a resource similar to DVA matrix and Illari's healing beam. You have a limited amount and if you deplete the bar it takes a second or two to recover. Then change Valk so that it gives you unlimited blue beam for its duration (Valk would still be the same, just with this additional change).
That way it rewards smart blue beam usage, allows for skill expression (choosing between using Valk for survival or as a combo ult for example), and gives Mercy players more ways to coordinate with their team that isn't just stand behind a wall while alleviating the frustrations some players have with the ability.
But isnt that going to make mercy more of healbots? Damage boost is her only main utility
@@Yomuxxis Res? Did we forget about Res? Also, there is rarely ever a point playing Mercy where you're just holding blue beam without switching to heal beam. It just gives a window for counterplay. Being able to use the small window where her blue beam is on cooldown or low on resources gives the enemy team a window to push that Ashe with a Mercy pocket holding high ground and also forces Mercy's to be thoughtful with it's usage while keeping the things that make it strong. It doesn't really change the way it's used nor remove its strengths, it just gives it more counterplay.
Mercy mains will complain either way
@@KingAssRipper69 Honestly though I think it'd be pretty cool and I feel like they'd enjoy it after a while.
Mercy's who get really good at her movement for example get rewarded because instead of using their ult for survival, they get to consistently use it as a ult combo tool so Mercy's who waste their Valks from bad positioning stand out from the good one's. Moments where Mercy's use their entire blue beam bar to facilitate a good play feels even more rewarding because you know that they had to commit hard to make that happen. Or when they go Battle Mercy and glock someone down, it feels even more funny and intentional because they used it that way instead of to combo (like some Ana's use their Nano for trolly stuff).
Edit/TLDR: I don't think they'd react as negatively as you think. It'd be kinda goated.
@@eagerinspirityou totally misunderstood what they said. mercys MAIN source of utility is damage boost, her other one is on a 30 second cd and is not an ability that can b used consistently. they are asking what she would be doing during the boost’s downtime/when it is on cd. healing a full hp target? yeah thats not a good idea. that would just make her a healbot. theyre better off reworking her atp.
The shared cool down for Ana would only work if you gave her a movement ability. So something like Hanzo/Lifeweaver but maybe a roll.
You could've just said Cassidy
Damn i didnt think id agree with every single one of these takes. Well done
same
I agree that supports are a bit too strong right now but I dont want it to revert to the time where supports had to hide all game or just get executed. Hopefully they can tune back their busted abilities or rework them to be more fair but not so much it makes them feel awful to play.
The video didn't state that Support are too strong rn, tho?
(Btw, they aren't. Tanks suffer because DPS can delete them in like 2 seconds. The most "broken" Supports are those that are DPS hybrids.)
@@DarthCookieOWtanks suffer because of supports, take this from a grandmaster tank.
@yarn7344 No, they don't. Tanks blow up too fast currently - that is definitely not because of Supports only. Damage output is way too high rn and CC is reintroduced to the DPS role. A simple, auto aiming Cass nade will literally blow up a Tank instantly.
I am GM1 Support, regularly scrim 4.4k+ for collegiate OW, and also have regular team sessions with a pro Contenders coach. Such crying takes as "Supports too strong" are just dumbing down way more complex problems way too much - and are off mark. Support has the least carry impact in the game. The more damage your team takes/the more damage the enemy team puts out comparatively to your team, the more you are getting forced to heal to keep then alive - taking away uptime for other, actually impactful plays.
@@DarthCookieOW still supports are too strong, why does almost every tierlist list them above A tier?
@@DarthCookieOW why do most people play support now? why is their q times so long? they got longer q times than dps now
Thank god someone else said Ana. As a tank player Ana just feels so aids to fight. In the current meta where everyone does ridiculous damage which is kept in check by ridiculous healing, getting anti naded even as someone tanky like ram holding block is basically an insta kill and sleep dart being able to confirm 5 abilities from her and her teammates (anti nade included) since there's such a long wakeup animation again makes it feel like a tank instakill since she's never missing against such a big hitbox
Suzu exists , bariers exists, sigmas, dva can eat the nade or dart, zarya, orisa javelin spin can buble herself and a teammate.... skill issue ngl
@@disgracetwt5513 imagine (just imagine) that the ana waits for the optimal time to use the sleep dart. if the ana is sleep darting your bubble/barrier then she is just retarded. the only real counter is suzu and if you're cleansing the sleep then you're not cleansing her other ability that guarantees a team fight win most of the time it lands
nah im an ana main and she is a lil too strong since OW2. All she needs is her nade to change from 100% healing block to just reduction of heals. Eating/blocking nade and sleep isnt that easy when you are fighting on point lmao. Her sleep is fine though
@@trash0175 How in the world is she OP? A never before seen insane ana player with 100% sleep dart accuracy might be broken, but that player would be broken on half the hero roster. Even in top 500 her sleep dart isn't broken. Her anti is strong, but can be suzu'd and it's difficult to hit a large nade without being out of position.
Ana is arguably the least "broken" support along with lucio and zen, they're charecters with a strong impact but who can be easily punished when they make mistakes. If you're a dps then as long as you're not just the worse player you can punish ana or zen easily any time they're out of position, while if they play well they can carry a game. Lucio on the other hand is very difficult to kill but he's focused on mobility and doesn't bring as much else to the table so it's a fair trade off. Compare that to every other support in the game who all have some bs get out of jail free for zero skill card. Baptiste has 3 lives and vertical mobility, kiriko has a literal tp to another dimension on a 7 second cool down, moira can fade a million miles away on a 6 second cooldown etc.
Ana isn't even the best support right now, she just is popular because she's fun, and because the meta favors her.
ana allways been the most broken hero of the game, every tank and flanker dps know this, absolute worst hitbox of the game, sleep is a mc cree body shot, it's 100% on most tanks, nade is an ultimate every 10 sec that last 3.5, better than a pulse bomb...when I play in plat what I see is most ana are bad, they use cooldown randomly, if you are smart ana is best hero to climb, and she can carry dps, it's my least played and I have 80% wr, it's cheat mode hero tbh @@lukasg4807
I think supports are one of the hardest roles to balance for sure. There are a lot of problems with supports not being able to save somebody, and that's why these abilities of life grip, suzu, and lamp are in the game. Supports let you make up for a teammate's mistake when the enemy outplayed them. That shouldn't be the case. They should heal and provide teammates with extra resources, but never make up for their misplays.
what about bubble or sig shield both can make up for positioning mistakes.
what do you think healing is if not making up for someone else's mistake?
@@remittri healing is for expected mistake.. There’s no way anyone can play this game without taking damage. However support abilities does help with abnormal/non expected mistake.. usually involving the enemy’s hero ability or just teammates carelessness. For example if someone is positioned badly, you can pull them to your team as lifeweaver. Or if the tank didnt react in time for anti nade, you can suzu them etc.
What you're wanting here is Supports not being able to carry games. That would make them the by far worst role (they are the weakest carry role already) to play and nobody would play Support anymore.
@@DarthCookieOW Being able to carry games shouldn't involve not letting your teammate make mistakes. It's a really delicate balance. Zen can absolutely carry games just by shredding everybody with discord, but he doesn't have to bail anybody out consistently to do it. A Lucio can carry games by consistently booping people out of position. There are a lot of cool ways to make supports able to carry. I think supports have a lot of room for creativity, but the way that it feels right now is just as a dps or a tank it even a support, if you diff somebody in a duel or on a flank because you outplayed them, they just have a Kiri pop out of thin air and suzu them and kill you. It doesn't encourage outplaying or predictions or anything, it just encourages playing characters who never have to commit to anything, and that, in my opinion, is not fun.
It's "hard to believe" Zen has had more meta playtime than any other in OW1 because it's not true. Lucio, Brig, DVa and Ana have all spent longer in the meta than Zen. You can check stats lab for data on this.
He's clearly right up there and it doesn't affect any of the other points made, but still.
i mean zen is strong but there is atleast counterplay to zen, if the enemy picks sombra and shes not complete garbage its an insta switch for every zen
Having Sleep and nade on a shared cooldown would be a godsend for tank players.
If Ana wasn't the favorite support child from OW1 and was a new hero introduced in OW2 people would be calling for her head. Instead of balancing Ana's ridiculous cooldowns, they made Kiriko which all that did was make Counterwatch more prevalent and gave us Suzu which as stated before is also broken.
Ana is one of the least broken supports. She's actually killable unlike baptiste with 3 lives or half the support roster who will just disappear from your screen in the middle of the fight
Found the Kiri main,main a hero that takes skill mate
First time someone but me actually calls out ana. Thanks. Its actually my main reason why you cant just remove or increase cooldown on suzu. Without kiriko, Anas would just run the game. Glad they at least gave me a total 12 seconds before i get to sleep again as tank. So much fun in those times.
Also i dont like the lack of good counterplay to ramattras nemesis punches. You give him space for free or kills for free. Im okay with it piercing barriers, but maybe let us eat it. After all it feels a lot like a shotgun.
Ram should technically be more vulnerable to damage when he punches if the other mode of Nemesis is to literally tank through damage.
Yeatle this is a HIGHLY needed video. These are things that need adjusting to make 5v5 work, but also things that I think make 5v5 lame. Mercy for example dmg boosting someone was good in OW1, but now that pocketed DPS just takes over the game in 5v5, it’s way more valuable. Also rez instead of bringing back 16% of your team, brings back 20% in 5v5, a proportionally stronger play. And that’s not even to say that if you rez a tank in OW2, they are gigatanks so getting a rez on that player is more like 30% of your team’s value. Also, her movement is busted for OW2. I don’t mind superjump being an official thing now, but it was made far too easy and versatile. In OW1 you could predict where she would go, but now there is seemingly no logic to it or pattern. She can initiate the jump at any point before or after reaching who she is GAing to, she can “bounce” backwards away from them, or use the teammate to slingshot past them to nearly double the distance from OW1. Trying to clutch a hard game in OW2 is so infuriating when they do this, you can’t catch her on a flanker if you are in a desperate situation and have only a few seconds to survive nest their team and make your play. Then the Mercy player has the audacity to say outskilled… when all they did was make their DPS teammate farm your team and win 1v1s with less skill required (and rezed if they somehow lose with such an overwhelming advantage). That’s not even to talk about Zen discord or Widow hs (can just leave discord on single tank so they lose their ability to carry the game or stay outside of literally every other hero’s range uncontested on Widow), it’s almost like in 5v5 those will never be balanced and just can’t be in the game in this format. But that’s the thing, I like having a pacifist hero like Mercy in OW, or Zen who has high skill with his dmg and positioning but free to land abilities, or Widow who is the definitive sniper hero. However, 5v5 just limits the game and these abilities will always be oppressive no matter how they balance it. Bring back 6v6.
Widow is the only character that can’t be fixed or at least the only character I can’t think of a rework for. For them to “fix” widow would be a complete overhaul of the character. Other characters just need simple tweaks except for sombra but I have a cool idea for her.
What's your cool idea?
@@d00mnoodle62 ok so sombras whole identity is to flank and spread hack on people right. So instead of just having an ability that locks on why not change that to something a bit more engaging and fun. Brig is a character that has a big AOE that heals BUT she has to proc it by dealing damage to enemies. So I think we should have that same mentality with sombra. Not only that but I think it would be incredibly fun to make her a melee character bcz we don’t have one in the DPS category anymore. Some cool ass data knife looking thing would be freaking awesome. She would turn into the Spy we all want her to be. She has a data knife that when she attacks someone with her data knife it’ll proc the hack effect. But the silence part of the hack doesn’t automatically trigger when proc’d. Silence means you can’t use abilities and can cancel certain abilities during their animations like sigma ult, Moira ult, and high noon. Instead of the silence happening automatically can trigger it whenever you want from where ever as long as the person stays hacked. So you go in get a few hits to apply the hack (not just one hit) TP out and can apply the silence whenever needed. Now this does seem pretty broken at first but I have a solution. Back when she was released invis had a 15 second timer on it and so did her translocator. I think we should combine both of those abilities together and keep the 15 second duration. So it would work kinda like tracer where ever you activate the invis is where you can TP back to. Now she has a duration on her invis and is melee based now it seems pretty weak and situational so to compensate for the lack of range and severely limiting her movement time for another new ability. She can throw her data knife wherever kinda like JQ it helps proc the hack and deals sizable damage not only that but wherever you throw it you can TP to that location throw it at a wall, to a health pack, and even if you hit enemies with it. Hitting enemies with it allows for you to TP right on top of them. Ult would stay the same tho. So I think this idea for a rework not only stays true to the characters core identity while also making her feel more fair to play against and more fun to play as. Super long but I hope you like this idea.
eh, honestly just remove her mobility and she's "fine" imo
@@rage_tv4493 this would make her much fairer to play against since you can anticipate the hack, although i think she'd need some ranged weapon too that isn't on a cooldown, maybe keep her pistol the way it is. This is an idea that has potential i think, gj
@@Ale-km3ux but that’s the fun of widow is the grapple. the one shot is the problem
if u remove rez behind the wall..... then just remove the ability. it is rarely a good idea to rez the open and most rez techs try to put behind cover faster. even in valk rez in the open is bad. putting dam boost on a cooldown is one of the worst things because then her beam wont be connected then the pocket wont be a flight path anymore and she won't be able to prop bounce which is an essential tech for mercy survivability, ig u can switch to heal but then you are reducing a support direct value for some enjoyability
I've seen hanzo mains say they rather have more projectile speed than the one shot so they could snipe more consistently
I think dying in an unfair way is part of the game. All games without full knoledge of the situatio are unfair to some extend. Jet noone complains about poker being broken.
Mercy brings me so much pain. She wasn't nearly the problem she is now in 6v6 because off tanks could punish her for an out of position rez. In 5v5 she can be such a pain to play against. Most tanks are truly powerless against mercy and have no choice but to rely on DPS or supports to stop rez.
7:05 the tip on the right being all like "keep moving or Cassidy will hit you" while you're nearly standing still and the Cass misses 5/6 shots
Good takes
When Kiri was first announced I figured it was gonna be a super precise skill shot... Of course it wasnt.
Huh?
Would like to see someone mention mercy rez being just as fast to cast for a 150 or 200 hp hero as it is for a 700 hp one. Even if there isnt a difference depending on hp pool size (Would be a little confusing when talking about D.va), another idea is that perhaps it would depend on the role of the character being rezzed, as then you wouldnt have Zarya or Junker Queen being rezzed nearly as fast as Bastion, like they would if it did depend on hp
As much as I like the idea conceptually, every tank main is already crying.
or maybe dont let her rez heroes with full health, make it half or even less its so stupid that you can rez a fucking ball with 700hp in 2 seconds that took me over a minute to even fucking kill in the first place
As a zen main I agree, discord is pretty broken. My solution would be to make it have a cooldown. For example make it 10 seconds and give it a partial refresh if the enemy is killed.
You could also add a healing factor, for example if someone kills a discorded target it could heal the person that kill it and those who got an assist, that way if you just discord the tank you would be losing value. Also discord should be a 15% defense reduction
Widow can be fixed by making her a mobile flanker who's ult one shots and her smg does more damage, and her sniper does 100 damage but it poisons over time. Widow is unfun to play and play against. Hanzo is weird because 9/10 times he's an easy skill but that one tome you die its either he got lucky or he's genuinely good
I feel you didn't talk enough about characters that are broken because of reasons other than overpowered abilities. For example, how some tanks still haven't been able to adjust from 6v6 to 5v5, or how difficult it is to balance tank busters like reaper and bastion.
tbh reaper is not tank buster anymore, more like a "sometimes winston buster" aside from that reaper is utterly and totally useless, but bastion is fine now, he atleast can compete with soldier and sojourn now and is not reliant on a pocket
I disagree, but love yeatle content regardless :)
I like this, people say Genji is broken bc of nano blade but thats two ultimates the rest of his kit makes him hard to play against the evolving overheal meta. Ive gone in for a dash right melee combo just to see a kiri or bap suzu or lamp and now my cooldowns and life are forfeit
That hanzo part is so real I never thought about it. Imagine him being able to cycle through arrow types like Moira orb or something
These are the most reasonable and well explained takes I've ever witnessed about this game and haters will still be hating, it's crazy. Good stuff man, I would also add Dva to the list because of her insane burst dmg that casually one taps any squishy, extra life ult, huge survivability + mobility and defense matrix that eats almost anything
only way to counter dva is to surround your teammates so when she inevitably dives someone, you can shoot her in the back.
make wido and hanzo deal 150 and have 50 in bleed or poison, so healer can have counter play and still keep the one shot to any extent. Have zen orb increase ability time or decrease or ult charge gain, ana anti should just decease healing.
with bap have his immortal field let you get to 0 hp but give you a new type of hp like shield in reverse counting down not up quickly like 5 sec till death.
zen discord orb should be on a cooldown so he cant just put it on WHOEVER HE WANTS WHENEVER HE WANTS. It should also last like ~5-6seconds on the target so it can be a coordinated go at the target like "putting discord on X player, everyone swap"
But wouldn't reducing the shared cooldown on ana be more broken? Imagine throwing a nade to the skybox before the fight and landing a second one at the same time
Great video, I feel like what you said about Ana having two similar cooldowns reins true to most supports in the game. Kiriko has two abilities that can cleanse, mercy's kit is all about healing/damage boosting/resurrecting one singular person on the team, moira is all about dps... etc. I feel like this makes the game more of a rock paper scissors than a fair fight of skill and preferences, meaning players are forced to switch off much more often. To be honest it's probably a bigger problem with tanks but I feel tanks would be much harder to fix without reverting to a 6v6 gamestyle.
The problem when playing Doom is that the enemy team is just battling each other at that point because one person will charge you then you kill someone unsuspecting because it wasnt even their fault that you got charged to begin with. That's why probably since season 1 or 2 that I realized he's a character that counters stupid players really well. If you're charged blatantly on purpose every time you block in a single game. More often then not that's just gonna be your playstyle for that game in specific. Get charged and assassinate someone unsuspecting. It lowers his skill ceiling drastically within an instant. Obviously this shouldn't ever be changed until all of his counters are because tbh it's all he's got right now. And on the games where you can't get charged and there's nothing but counters. You're just gonna do nothing but bait cooldowns and attention. Which ofc is value. But that only goes so far with the fact that this game is just solo queue heaven but at it's core is a team game. Just doesn't work.
Doomfist mains have my full support
In Hanzo's defense if you're aware of him and move accordingly his accuracy takes a huge hit. Unless of course, luck; RNG's just too general a factor in Overwatch to put any relative blame on him anyway. You can outplay him by paying attention to his positioning and moving around him, Widow on the other hand is hitscan... so yeah.
I agree that you can outstrafe his shots from far if you see him but from closer it's pretty much hitscan. I think the real problem is when you pop a corner or he pops a corner and it's a headshot or if you don't know he has a angle you also just die if he hits the hs. Too many instances of dying because hanzo isn't permanently pinged.
@@yeatle That's true, especially with sonic arrow. Realistically all you could do is listen for sound cues and distance yourself. I can't help but think that's just an crappy game design intentionally left in there by the devs disregarding balance. In the end Hanzo would always have a strong niche as he is designed.
@@yeatle I believe Hanzo and Widow can be dealt with team effort, just like pocketed Pharah and Echo. Spotting the sniper and forcing them out of the nest is the usual treatment and I saw it work in Overwatch too. I'd like to hear your opinion if you played high level team queue against these heroes last season, was it any different? I believe there would be significant difference.
I have to add that I wrote this out of DPS perspective. For tanks could be different.
@@yeatlesame for widow actually she never was broken and especially with the small ass hitboxes of new heroes, it is a miracle when you hit a shot. And even when you do, it is most likely because the enemy was unaware (wich is a mistake, that you punished) and he was unaware because the enemy team was enforcing your team, because they don’t have a hero with zero damage output on their side… Widow comes with enormous trade-offs, unlike sojourn, and I could never understand why we nerfed her, while she was already hardly playable on 5 points out of the entire map pool… I strongly disagree that she deserves a spot on your list. And also, why not brig?
Finally someone said it ana is op. Idc if you need good aim with her is dogsh*t when you get anti or get your ult cancelled by sleep. And along side that she is like widow maker she just sits from narnia shooting her teammates and throwing nades everywhere. Thank you yeatle
None of these hero’s are as broken as my marriage
Hard to understand why Junkrat would even be an honorable mention. He has literally never been meta as far as I can remember. If anything, I think he needs a buff. His play percentage has to be amongst the lowest for DPS heroes. If he were broken, he'd be played significantly more.
ana sleep dart hitbox is way too forgiving too imo
Great video. As a somewhat new player I was curious how similar this would be to my own thoughts and it was actually near identical.
Eyes see top 10 video > neuron activate > brain happy
Ngl I expected a curveball where the Ball player said that Ball was broken.
Understandable that you think he's not, though, as being cc'd is a death sentence.
Yeatle, as always you've hit it on the nail. These heroes do break the game and fixing them would make for a more balanced and more enjoyable OW experience. It sucks that as you once once, it's not a matter or skill, but a matter of imbalance. Also, in console playing against knm widows or hanzos is just not fun. May the gods of OW listen to your wise advice and thank you for your always insightful and intelligent content.
There’s a very good reason people say Anti-nade is better than most Ultimates lmao
Great insight Yeatle! Wish devs thought more like you
For Mercy I’d add that speed boost and no reload in Valk.
She heals really fast in Valk so if Mercy’s try to mess you up even if you are incredible and hot your shots you take a bunch of damage and her gun is insanely easy to hit with.
Imagine you’re Ashe, you have to Two tap a target that can move any direction very quickly and Mercy just has to hold M1
Great video Yeatle
Good video big Yeat
Ana being on the list is criminal
As a tank player just block the made our force it out before engaging its not that bad
Only a few tanks have the ability to block it, and good anas will find ways to weave it behind ur shield
Most annoying thing about trying to cancel rez is that the rez target body blocks Mercy. Bullets should go through them. I shouldn't have to figure out what angle I can precisely hit her at in the 2 seconds I get to stop her. Also everyone should rez with the same HP, like 250. So all of the squishies rez at full HP, but most tanks would be half health.
i really hope someday widowmaker gets reworked into a poison focused character. maybe having multiple mines or ways to apply poison and then a damage buff on her snipe to poisoned targets, removing the possibility of the oneshot until shes already outplayed you by landing other things
You have no idea how much I cheered when you put Hanzo 2nd! He`s literally Sniper Junkrat and I will die on that Hill.
yeatle as usually being a good ow content creator keep it up m8
Thank god you mentioned Widows and Hanzos. These one shots are ragefuel.
I like that you showed your own gameplay instead of someone elses
Hot Take: OW2 is balanced well enough for these abilities to exist in the ways they do. They are interesting gimmicks, and it doesn't feel like you're forced to use them. It takes a lot of skill and gamesense to use these abilities correctly and not waste them.
or you can just use da funni button that is on a 15-25 second cooldown to completely counter almost every ultimate ability (even if they are well placed) that also takes multiple fights to get.
I think i cool rework for ana would be for her nade and sleep to be a sort of bullet she has to load in, like hanzo switching types of arrows but with like more time(basically reload to get the ability) and could be fun to be able to shoot grenade/sleep across the map with hitscan, sounds broken but could work
What an incredible mind for balance you have, it makes the ana have to time and prepare her abilities well instead of having every answer on demand whenever she wants.
Literally all your tips to “fix” these characters would make them boring af to play
A combined cooldown cooldown for Ana's sleep dart and nade?
That sounds pretty good. I foresee the choice will be nade most of the times (due to the heal, damage and heal deny combo), but still a way better idea than the rifle nerf blizzard temporarely did a while before Overwatch 2 was released.
Orissa for me isnt broken but just terribly inconsistent. To me it comes down to her skin spear. It blocks all hits can and projectiles while reducing beam and melee damage, it boops. Doom can punch her out of it but Rein can't pin her out of it. Ball can't really displace her with a direct hit (I think both should be cancelled out for this interaction). I think if beam damage wasn't reduced and melee damage wasn't reduced at all onto Orissa's spin spear that would make more sense since it would be in line with the other defense matrices. And just have doom and Rein have the same interaction with it. Either both bounce off or both cancel it
I think the answer for Widow is to put her one shot, on a timed cooldown. Like a button that you press that has a window in which you can do one shots. Being able to do it, across map, away from the fight, every 3 seconds, without having to use any abilities is just too strong in one tank world. Even with nerf. Getting three solo kills on full health targets in 10 seconds is not healthy balance.
like bastion's turret form?
@@Azarthes Yeah, something like that for the same kind of time window. Some kind of audio queue to announce that everybody's in danger, so there's some kind of counterplay. Rather than jumping around a corner, and dying 0.76 seconds later.
I saw i suggestion from another person on this thread, they suggested Hanzo and widow headshots deal 195 damage or so but then they deal 5 damage (in poison/bleed) over like 2.5 seconds. So, targets can be quickly healed if headshoted but snipers are still rewarded for the headshot in 1v1s
Illari is most broken for ranked play. High dps gun that has bigger hit registration than any dps hero. An ult that can wipe 1-2 people. Mobility ability that leads into easy shots landed, peel, and high ground. A no brain pylon, and a 56 winrate in GM as a SUPPORT
For Ana, make the sleep wake up animation faster, or maybe sound based, like if ennemy players are really close to you, you wake up much faster, idk
And for nade, make it reduce healing received instead of totally blocking it
even better, make it so you can either be slept or antied at a time, like if you're sleeping and you get hit by nade, the antiheal won't apply but you'll still take the damage
@@Ale-km3ux thats really weird change ngl. I agree with the other dude’s idea. Anti should be reduced healing not 100% heal block. As for sleep.. I dont think it needs any change. Its a 14 seconds cooldown and a skill shot. Change ana’s ability too much and she’ll actually be useless. You have to remember she does not have any mobility and any unique passive of her own. And all of her ability needs to require some degree of aiming..
@@trash0175 like yeatle said, the problem isn’t one ability or the other, it’s the two of them combined
There has to be a way to keep the one shot potential for ana while also preventing confirmed kills from 20 meters away
Okay. Im an ana main and very sensitive to people saying shes broken or something because she just isnt and shes starting to have nerf creep where shes just continuously tweaked down with no compensation anywhere (other than recent dart size increase which is extremely nice). But having sleep and nade on a shared cd, maybe 7s, would be a change i could get behind. Would make her 10x more fun
Just had a game where I landed 3 grenades in a row on to a Hanzo. That's 360 dmg in like 2 seconds. Guess who died. Me. He lived cause of a double pocket, no imort or abilities, just heals. If thats isn't broken, idk what is
0:50 As a widow main, just play widow for a few games, learn how to move with a d better while shooting or healing and don't jump, it has counterplay, just applie those things and make them a habit. Also, ofc learn how to counter comp wise, either by having a widow player that challenges, going dive, or playing better angles
Great vid!!🔥🔥🔥😘
Unstoppable force meets immovable object. (The force is ball rolling and the object is a stray tracer standing next to you)
Not putting Ball in here is hilarious to me
“If everyone’s broken, nobody will be” - Blizzard
hey yeatle, how would you rate the current state of the game (mainly tank role) for returning players? thinking about getting back
Just about every tank main I see is crying over lack of balance and basically only play because of low queue times. So personally, it's probably about the same as when you played last. Some noticeable changes to who's META but a pretty same old experience for casuals
@@nonbread7911 whats the tank meta for this season? i was a ball otp in ov1 but he kinda dead in ov2
i was like @6:57
"how isnt mercy dead already"
then
"oh thats why" @7:04
Illari definitely has to be up here there’s no way she should be doing 2nd most dps in a lobby and the most healing at the same time
7:03 Yea, we're not going to ignore the Cass missing 5 shots on you.
I've always said the most broken hero in my opinion is ana, she has good damage, she has good healing she has 2 REALLY IMPACTFUL cooldowns and her ult is one of if not the best ultimate in the game, and then you put all of that ontop of a hero who has pretty decent dueling capability it isn't fun.
Her damage never should have got buffed. Also 5v5 made her op
I'm a fan of removing all CC moves from the dps role.
Junk should get trap removed and replace it with a proximity claymore. Decrease amount of bounces before explosion on his primary fire as well.
Cassidy's hinder is just a step backwards as well, imo. Give him a frag that you can angle off walls maybe.
Make Sombra a support so that hack can still be apart of her kit. Translocator could be an AOE radius that gives all players within it the support passive. Hack could be used on teammates and enemies. It coudl give a healing boost and perhaps a slight cooldown reduction to allies. EMP the same effects but for multiple targets as well as negatively effecting enemies.
Getting hindered, frozen, hacked, or trapped after a tank CCs you and you're displaced by a support is what frustrates a lot of players and tanks. I like Brigs bash on support tho that's great.
Great video!!!!
I think everyone who complains about widow and Hanzo are the ones who are playing in the top lobbies, where way fewer people are. Any nerf to widow/hanzo that made them more balanced in gm lobbies would ruin them in the metals
Ball having a cooldown devoted to cc immunity might be an interesting change for the Dems to try
I like how specifically for mercy you threw in the “good on mercy players for using the tools at their disposal” to stop the 20 paragraph rant they were about to comment
ay nice video! I agree, esecially about ana. I play tank and I'll easily have a game where half my deaths are more, are all to sleep and nade combo. It's too easy to hit on tanks, cooldowns are too short
Mercy easily. Unlike every other character in the game when mercy gets pressured out she can still do her job 100% with no problem and thats the issue. If an Anas in the back uncontested you can at least force her to stop healing by shooting not with mercy. Not only is that impossible but they have her that stupid life steal passive ffs
Shared cooldowns is a great idea for OW. See Mass effect 2 for examples.
6:40 average mercy gameplay lmao
Bap and Kiri because of immortality.
Zaria for basically immortality.
Mercy and Zen for too much damage.
Mercy again for taking the value of picks away.
Ana for having the death combo.
Sojourn for being Sojourn.
Sombra for being able to freely hack at any time.
Widow and Hanzo for one shot.
Are you planning on doing another unranked to gm with a tank again? I loved your ram and queen ones
To be fair, Roadhogs hook is broken and has been forever. It still hooks around corners and the range is insane.
How to fix sombra: give her back the stealth resource meter
Sombra never had a stealth resource meter, it was on a timer before; either way I agree.
Illari is so broken 😂😂
but seriously Kiriko’s cleanse is on top
I don’t see how people don’t see your take. I swear I’m always the only one who thinks that?
If her Pylon is down, she’s practically unkillable in a 1v1, as you either have to focus her Pylon or her (who is shooting at you & taking you down in 3 shots).
She also doesn’t have dmg fall off, so she can hit you from 10 miles away.
Also, what happened to the whole “No more one shots” from the OW community? She may not “1 shot” but it sure does feel like it.
Side rant: this goes into Mei , why can Mei one shot from across the map with a dink to a head? She’s not a sniper? Widow & Hanzo I understand. There’s so many other issues I have with many hero’s in this Heckin game…
shes a dogshit supp without her pylon, she can only heal close to you and her healing is limited, the only thing shes good at is being a dps (damage, ult)
@@ShibaInu102
Mei is dependent on accuracy & line of site ( LOS ) I think it is fine because only high levels would use the right click accurately. If you are playing Tracer then it is too bad