I’ve learned that at work it’s best to keep to yourself and mind your own business. The less you talk, the less trouble you get yourself into. If you want to have friends, then make them outside of work. Your coworkers are not your friends.
This is true, especially when new. I've been at my workplace for a decade so I have 2 very close friends that I've traveled with and spend time with outside of work. I trust them with venting because I know what we say to each other stays with each other. It's rare but I'm happy to have it.
I had to slowly separate/ghost from a clique during COVID, because I noticed they talked shit about each other when one person was gone. But when everyone was together, they did all the fake smiles/fake love and pretended it was all good. Behind the scenes, I knew how certain people really felt, so I learned to mind my business and just with the best for everyone. The problem with that is that they see you as a threat, because you don't co-sign their BS, or you have your own life outside of the clique. It's best to keep a respectful distance when once you peep the BS, because even though they'll now see you as the enemy, you have your peace and freedom.
I’ve found that some people as individuals are insecure and will never feel safe no matter how positive the working environment. They join forces with other insecure people and proceed to attempt to bully out those they feel threatened by. These personalities always seem to need a target and bully one person in a workplace after another until they leave. Our only hope is good management, and my current place is excellent for that.
Is it not possible, with that perspective, that you're one of the persons who feels valued and respected amongst your coworkers? Are you happily in am "inner circle"? Perhaps they feel that simply are not in that position and would love to be brought in, too. Regardless of their competitive attitude, they might just want to feel welcome anyway, to express openly their love of competition. Just presenting another angle.
I think you're right. I'm being bullied by a group just like this, and I noticed they are all very insecure people. The Queen Bee is loud and aggressive, but desperate for attention, and her flying monkeys are all timid and insecure, so they love doing her bidding by attacking the target (me!). Then they smear the target to people who don't know what's going on. They often love bomb these people as they tell them what a horrible person the target is. It works. They usually believe it because the one doing the smearing seems so nice and so friendly, and they have all these friends! I don't know that there's a way to stop it once you've been designated as the target. I would say, if you see this pattern and hear bad things about someone you don't know from a clique who seem extra friendly when they're telling you about this bad person, verify for yourself if the target really is bad or is just the victim of a really common power play. It's exactly what Regina George does in Mean Girls.
Outgrow the clique! Widen your range of influence by avoiding them, and develop relationships with everyone you work with on your own terms. You do not want to be lumped into a group. Get your own life, rise above the BS, and quit worrying about the silly judgements of people, who are too insecure to have their own independent thoughts/voice.
I mostly agree with you, but people who act like this often have a Queen Bee (the most insecure who masks by being aggressively confident). She's a big bully who is good at charming people to get her way, so these groups tend to dominate committees, groups, activities, that are important to us. Sometimes you can't avoid them without giving up something important. They rule the roost. I have a friend whose family had to put their house on the market and move to a different town because of a group of women on their street.
Does this count as a work clique? Basically, I don't get along so well with my coworkers. They don't talk to me when I'm around, quiet. They don't invite me to their table when I eat alone. They're each other's friends/conversationalists. I don't *_think_* they mean to leave me out, let alone they're bad people. I don't think they're thinking of me at all during their fun. Of course, it might be _my_ fault. I have occasionally said unfiltered things before, so _perhaps_ I permanently made a bad first impression. I have ASD. This one girl is a great example. Seems to like everyone else but me. Oh, the fun, the playful sarcasm/joking, sneaking up on a guy who likes horror films and exchanging in Australian accents. When she talks to _me,_ she's pretty serious and, AFAIC, subtly firm or annoyed. She chatted with another worker while driving us to a venue; when it was just us two later, nothing. Now, I can't remember _what_ I said the first few days/weeks we met, but _perhaps_ it was the time I mentioned facemasks to a teen worker. Asked him if his school had to wear them, told him how they ironically make my nose feel congested when they're supposed to be protecting us. Not that I was going into depth about the sensitive topic; I was brief and casual. The girl was basically all, "Okay, John, that's enough. Let's not talk about that." Yesterday, she sounded a bit annoyed about my collecting things for a room that already had them. Didn't exactly sound *casual and respectful.* I snapped, "Did I do something wrong?" She was like _"What?_ No. I was just..." yadda yadda, I have to look into the room to see what's already there...something like that. But you know, it's hard to tell whether her information is matter-of-factly or stern and "anti-John." We were very quiet around each other that morning, and of course, she chatted merrily with the others the night shift. Is this a work clique?
Excellent explanation, thank you. But how do you deal with a manager that has created her own clique around her and ostracized you because she sees you as a threat to her authority? For context: She is much older than everyone else in the team she is supposed to be “managing”, and is completely out of her element because the industry and technology has changed so much since her last job. Also, she keeps falling back on her “old job” as if to remind us how experienced she is every time anyone dares to point out that we could be doing things differently. Also, no matter what I do, she just dismisses it by saying “I wouldn't do it that way”, without ever actually pointing out what the problem is.
Hi Ryker That's a very difficult situation. Managing an inadequate leader is extremely difficult. What is the structure around her - is there a board that she reports to? I would also find ways to ask coaching questions that don't embarrass her but challenge her thinking. It helps to go with people rather than push against them. So if she says "I wouldn't do it that way", you can ask her what way she would do it? Engage her and then ask her more coaching questions around what would be the outcomes she anticipates if we do it that way? Just keep asking questions that helps her see that there might be other ways to do something; rather than accept her "I wouldn't do it that way" and ask for her opinion or advice occasionally. It will build trust. I would suspect that she is lacking confidence because she is (unconsciously) aware that she is not up to speed, which is why she hanging on to the good old days and her previous success. We build confidence by asking her more. Criticism will be a threat to her. I always think a good starting point is to say "Tell me more". It is respectful and sometimes in explaining something it brings to the conscious how ridiculous our position is and it's easier to own our role in the problem we are solving. I hope this helps. Kate
Hi, thank you for this video. Really gave me a better understanding. I am just wondering, what about cliques that people are not aware of? This might be difficult to put across the proper perspective of the team but I'll give it a go. I am in a team of about 9 people, 3 of them are really close friends, their desks are together and they do stuff out of work together. Then there's another 2 that are just outside of the clique, they don't do stuff out of work together but they would probably (have) been invited to weddings. That's a clique of about 5 of them, and so the other 3, (me being the 4th), all know each other, don't care about the clique, and probably don't see it, because they've been in the company for a long time, they don't have to learn stuff etc and they just keep themselves to themselves. The 3 people in that 'clique' are the most experienced in the team, and because they all know each other so well, they are more likely to go to one another over an issue rather than someone else in the team, me... Meaning I am not learning. The clique isn't negative. I am not against them being friends... The only thing I am against is all of them being in a whatsapp group that I'm not invited in (no conversation as to why but I do know they take fun of all types of things in that chat based on earwigging). I have tried explaining it to my manager but because he's not directly involved in the team and not in my shoes, he doesn't see it, and it's so frustrating... I know I would have achieved a lot more during my time in the job if the clique I am talking about wasn't there... I want to learn how to not care about the clique but also how to avoid missing out on good career growth opportunities because of the clique.
Hi Rickie. Apologies for the slow response. I completely get what you are trying to say. It's a tricky situation when your manager is not prepared to listen to what you are saying - which is completely valid. I make two suggestions - give your manager this book "Trust Your Canary" by Sharone Bar-David (it directly deals with incivility in the workplace, how expensive it is and how to call it out) and secondly go and speak to the people in the clique and let them know that you want to learn from them. Just let them know that you value their skills and experience and ask if there was any way they could help you develop your skills. They can only say no - but they may be flattered that you ask and find a way to make this work. But you have to ensure that you are asking them to share their skills; it can't be seen as a criticism of them or it will backfire. They probably have little awareness of the clique they have created and by gently developing a relationship with them or even one of them, you will change the dynamics of the relationship. I hope this helps. Kate
I’ve learned that at work it’s best to keep to yourself and mind your own business. The less you talk, the less trouble you get yourself into. If you want to have friends, then make them outside of work. Your coworkers are not your friends.
Very true that. I’ve got some great coworkers but you’re right about saying less!
This is true, especially when new. I've been at my workplace for a decade so I have 2 very close friends that I've traveled with and spend time with outside of work. I trust them with venting because I know what we say to each other stays with each other. It's rare but I'm happy to have it.
I had to slowly separate/ghost from a clique during COVID, because I noticed they talked shit about each other when one person was gone. But when everyone was together, they did all the fake smiles/fake love and pretended it was all good.
Behind the scenes, I knew how certain people really felt, so I learned to mind my business and just with the best for everyone. The problem with that is that they see you as a threat, because you don't co-sign their BS, or you have your own life outside of the clique.
It's best to keep a respectful distance when once you peep the BS, because even though they'll now see you as the enemy, you have your peace and freedom.
Very true
I’ve found that some people as individuals are insecure and will never feel safe no matter how positive the working environment. They join forces with other insecure people and proceed to attempt to bully out those they feel threatened by.
These personalities always seem to need a target and bully one person in a workplace after another until they leave. Our only hope is good management, and my current place is excellent for that.
Good management can be found, but it is rear.
Is it not possible, with that perspective, that you're one of the persons who feels valued and respected amongst your coworkers? Are you happily in am "inner circle"? Perhaps they feel that simply are not in that position and would love to be brought in, too. Regardless of their competitive attitude, they might just want to feel welcome anyway, to express openly their love of competition. Just presenting another angle.
I think you're right. I'm being bullied by a group just like this, and I noticed they are all very insecure people. The Queen Bee is loud and aggressive, but desperate for attention, and her flying monkeys are all timid and insecure, so they love doing her bidding by attacking the target (me!). Then they smear the target to people who don't know what's going on. They often love bomb these people as they tell them what a horrible person the target is. It works. They usually believe it because the one doing the smearing seems so nice and so friendly, and they have all these friends!
I don't know that there's a way to stop it once you've been designated as the target. I would say, if you see this pattern and hear bad things about someone you don't know from a clique who seem extra friendly when they're telling you about this bad person, verify for yourself if the target really is bad or is just the victim of a really common power play. It's exactly what Regina George does in Mean Girls.
Outgrow the clique! Widen your range of influence by avoiding them, and develop relationships with everyone you work with on your own terms. You do not want to be lumped into a group. Get your own life, rise above the BS, and quit worrying about the silly judgements of people, who are too insecure to have their own independent thoughts/voice.
I mostly agree with you, but people who act like this often have a Queen Bee (the most insecure who masks by being aggressively confident). She's a big bully who is good at charming people to get her way, so these groups tend to dominate committees, groups, activities, that are important to us. Sometimes you can't avoid them without giving up something important. They rule the roost. I have a friend whose family had to put their house on the market and move to a different town because of a group of women on their street.
Its an extention of the hallways of highschool. They are trapped there and cant get out.
Agreed.
Does this count as a work clique? Basically, I don't get along so well with my coworkers. They don't talk to me when I'm around, quiet. They don't invite me to their table when I eat alone. They're each other's friends/conversationalists. I don't *_think_* they mean to leave me out, let alone they're bad people. I don't think they're thinking of me at all during their fun. Of course, it might be _my_ fault. I have occasionally said unfiltered things before, so _perhaps_ I permanently made a bad first impression. I have ASD.
This one girl is a great example. Seems to like everyone else but me. Oh, the fun, the playful sarcasm/joking, sneaking up on a guy who likes horror films and exchanging in Australian accents. When she talks to _me,_ she's pretty serious and, AFAIC, subtly firm or annoyed. She chatted with another worker while driving us to a venue; when it was just us two later, nothing. Now, I can't remember _what_ I said the first few days/weeks we met, but _perhaps_ it was the time I mentioned facemasks to a teen worker. Asked him if his school had to wear them, told him how they ironically make my nose feel congested when they're supposed to be protecting us. Not that I was going into depth about the sensitive topic; I was brief and casual. The girl was basically all, "Okay, John, that's enough. Let's not talk about that." Yesterday, she sounded a bit annoyed about my collecting things for a room that already had them. Didn't exactly sound *casual and respectful.* I snapped, "Did I do something wrong?" She was like _"What?_ No. I was just..." yadda yadda, I have to look into the room to see what's already there...something like that. But you know, it's hard to tell whether her information is matter-of-factly or stern and "anti-John." We were very quiet around each other that morning, and of course, she chatted merrily with the others the night shift. Is this a work clique?
Excellent explanation, thank you. But how do you deal with a manager that has created her own clique around her and ostracized you because she sees you as a threat to her authority? For context: She is much older than everyone else in the team she is supposed to be “managing”, and is completely out of her element because the industry and technology has changed so much since her last job. Also, she keeps falling back on her “old job” as if to remind us how experienced she is every time anyone dares to point out that we could be doing things differently. Also, no matter what I do, she just dismisses it by saying “I wouldn't do it that way”, without ever actually pointing out what the problem is.
Hi Ryker
That's a very difficult situation. Managing an inadequate leader is extremely difficult. What is the structure around her - is there a board that she reports to?
I would also find ways to ask coaching questions that don't embarrass her but challenge her thinking. It helps to go with people rather than push against them. So if she says "I wouldn't do it that way", you can ask her what way she would do it? Engage her and then ask her more coaching questions around what would be the outcomes she anticipates if we do it that way? Just keep asking questions that helps her see that there might be other ways to do something; rather than accept her "I wouldn't do it that way" and ask for her opinion or advice occasionally. It will build trust.
I would suspect that she is lacking confidence because she is (unconsciously) aware that she is not up to speed, which is why she hanging on to the good old days and her previous success.
We build confidence by asking her more. Criticism will be a threat to her.
I always think a good starting point is to say "Tell me more". It is respectful and sometimes in explaining something it brings to the conscious how ridiculous our position is and it's easier to own our role in the problem we are solving.
I hope this helps.
Kate
Hi, thank you for this video. Really gave me a better understanding. I am just wondering, what about cliques that people are not aware of? This might be difficult to put across the proper perspective of the team but I'll give it a go. I am in a team of about 9 people, 3 of them are really close friends, their desks are together and they do stuff out of work together. Then there's another 2 that are just outside of the clique, they don't do stuff out of work together but they would probably (have) been invited to weddings. That's a clique of about 5 of them, and so the other 3, (me being the 4th), all know each other, don't care about the clique, and probably don't see it, because they've been in the company for a long time, they don't have to learn stuff etc and they just keep themselves to themselves. The 3 people in that 'clique' are the most experienced in the team, and because they all know each other so well, they are more likely to go to one another over an issue rather than someone else in the team, me... Meaning I am not learning. The clique isn't negative. I am not against them being friends... The only thing I am against is all of them being in a whatsapp group that I'm not invited in (no conversation as to why but I do know they take fun of all types of things in that chat based on earwigging). I have tried explaining it to my manager but because he's not directly involved in the team and not in my shoes, he doesn't see it, and it's so frustrating... I know I would have achieved a lot more during my time in the job if the clique I am talking about wasn't there... I want to learn how to not care about the clique but also how to avoid missing out on good career growth opportunities because of the clique.
Hi Rickie. Apologies for the slow response. I completely get what you are trying to say. It's a tricky situation when your manager is not prepared to listen to what you are saying - which is completely valid. I make two suggestions - give your manager this book "Trust Your Canary" by Sharone Bar-David (it directly deals with incivility in the workplace, how expensive it is and how to call it out) and secondly go and speak to the people in the clique and let them know that you want to learn from them. Just let them know that you value their skills and experience and ask if there was any way they could help you develop your skills. They can only say no - but they may be flattered that you ask and find a way to make this work. But you have to ensure that you are asking them to share their skills; it can't be seen as a criticism of them or it will backfire. They probably have little awareness of the clique they have created and by gently developing a relationship with them or even one of them, you will change the dynamics of the relationship. I hope this helps. Kate
Why on EARTH would you WANT to be in their SILLY whats app group?… “PING…PING…PING…” all day and all night long….