@@ReiKakarikiIt's more accurate to say that both Occitan and Catalan are Occitano-Romance sister languages, but Catalan is not descended from modern Occitan per se.
@@Louisianish It comes easily to me, you almost come to me, you even mentioned that Catalan and Occitan are from the same family, this is already more than obvious to the world, calm down, the current Catalan does not come from the current Occitan and vice versa, that is obvious, it's just that you lack understanding and training to see that both current Occitan and current Catalan come from medieval senile Occitan, that's what I'm referring to, it's the lack of this precious detail that makes your speech incongruous and even outside Catalan-Occitan linguistics. Hugs to ya mate 🆒🍷🫂
The closest languages to Catalan are Occitan and Aragonese (the other Occitano-Romance languages that surround Catalan). French is a Galo-Romance language with a very distinct phonetic system and many Germanic loanwords. However, in many cases, the core of Catalan is closer to the Galo-Romance languages than to the Ibero-Romance languages, something that can be seen on the basic vocabulary and grammar of Catalan (the pronouns "en/hi", adverbs such as "gaire, gens,...", verbs like "menjar, anar, voler, pujar..."). The Ibero-Romance languages, with Spanish as the most spoken language of the group, underwent a series of linguistic changes that Catalan didn't (most of them). The thing here is, with a core closer to Galo-Romance languages (French,...), the huge influence from Spanish has laid a thick cover above the Catalan core that brings it closer to the Ibero-Romance languages (Spanish,...). Many words have been lost in favour of the Spanish ones, the grammar and phonetics are changing and the new technological words usually come through Spanish. This phenomenon is the result of the diglossia process and will end up with Spanish erasing Catalan if it isn't stopped. As a Catalan person, I hope to see a day where Catalan's future isn't threatened by Spanish, wheather that is with independence or not.
Hola, germàn! En present, ocurreixen moltes vegades quan oic lo catalàn central i observeixo que.. La pronunción va cauent al costat de l'espanyol. Millor sigui que caiga al costat del francès perquè on es més apropat al catalàn en sonar.. Mas n'aquest cas se quedi res quasi del catalàn com ocurrí amb lo septentrinal que't parli ara. Marqui moltíssimes de paraules non catalanes, non es ben. Non s'importa si Catalunya sigui independenta o non, lo més principal es que non presionin a la nòstra cultura i llengua. Mas lo sigueixen fent mentre fent l'aspect que defenden a Catalunya deslliurant als encarcelats polítics. Mas, lo fan sóls per una cosa: agregar (o millor dire achetar) els seus vots per à si. En realitat van fent mal a si mateixes tamben. Ami a Espanya i a Catalunya, i a Portugal i non vull veure com els germàns més apropats se morden entre sí. Se deu proteger-lo de veritat i al cas contrari haurà de cortar la cordas qui tenen el barc catalàn. Mas, en qualsevol cas, es necesari deixar de jugar als jocs ultra-lliberals per tota l'Europa perque van a degradar-nos com un poble. Viva España, visca Catalunya, visca Portugal, visca la Cristiandat i Europa entera! Des del Cap de la Roca cap a Vladivostok rus! ;)
It's not la “Família Sagrada”, but “La Sagrada Família”. Catalonia is not the unique place where Catalan is spoken. I was raised and born in Valencian Country, and I speak the same language. In terms of repression, we suffered the same type of wearing.
Le catalan n'est pas seulement parlé sur le territoire de la Généralité de Catalogne, en Andorre, et dans les Baléares : il est aussi parlé en Aragon, en Sardaigne (l'Alguer) et dans le département des Pyrénées-Orientales (c'est d'ailleurs là qu'est née la Catalogne, au pied du Canigó !)...
First thing you got wrong: The name of the church: it's "la Sagrada Família" not the other way around. Secong thing, but don't worry, everyone out of Catalonia says it incorrectly, is Antoni Gaudí, here you have the syllables you have to stress: "anTOni gauDÍ" (do you see the accent? Is telling you to stress the last syllable, not the first one). Now, something you got right, is that Catalan was forbidden more than once, but you missing the historical events that originated those prohibitions, like The Succession War, the Spanish Civil War both Primo de Rivera and Franco (the worse one) dictatorships. And what happened then. My farher was a six year old when he started learning Spanish at school, he was both a Catalan and French speaker due to her cousins in Montpellier. The first day of school (during Franco's dictatorship) he said "Bon dia" (good morning in Catalan) and then the teacher hit him and said: "¡HABLA EN CRISTIANO NINÑO!" (Speak in Christian kid!), and then scared he said "bonjour" an the same thing happened. Catalan has survived lot's of things, right before the "Renaixença" (the literally movement that came to Europe around the 19th century) the Catalan literature that survived were Traditional and Popular fairy tales. And that Catalan French speaking part was actually part from Catalonia until it was given to France by the Spanish Monarchy. The most similar language to Catalan isn't neither Spanish nor French, it's Occitan, in fact, we can have a full conversation with one and other without knowing how to speak the other language. Another thing wrong. The catalan spoken in Girona isn't central Catalan but just Eastern Catalan. Fun fact! In Catalan we can use some optional words that in French are basically mandatory. Like French possesive pronouns: "ma, mon, ta, ton, sa, son..." In Catalan the standard ones are: "la meva, el meu, la teva, el teu, la seva, el seu..." But, in coloquial Catalan, we can also use the French ones: instead of "el teu pare i la teva mare" (your father and your mother) we can also say: "ton pare i ta mare". But NOT in formal Catalan, just in Catalan from the streets. Then, for a negative sentence in French is compulsory to use the word "pas", in Catalan we use it as an emphasis, we can choose to use that word to make it fancier to have a point, but the sentence is right without it as well: "Ce n'est pas bon" (this isn't good) in Catalan would be: "això no és bò" but we can definitely say "això no és pas bò" which emphasis the fact that is definitely isn't good. It is English the one that borrows French words by the way, mostly. In Catalan we also use the word "restar" not "rester" though, but mostly to reffer to something that we still have, to refer something that is still left: "resten 10 minuts per acabar l'escola" (there's 10 minutes left until the school ends). "Resten 5 pomes a la nevera" (there are 5 apples left in the fridge). We can say "l'enregistrament" in Catalan too. And careful with the time. Catalan hours are difficult, even lots of Catalan cannot tell the time in Catalan. We use quarters but in the future, it is similar to the English use of "to". A quarter past One (13:15) in Catalan is "un quart de dues" ("a quarter to two") Half past 10 (10:30) in Catan is "dos quarts d'onze (two quarters to eleven) And a quarter to eight (7:45) in Catalan is "tres quarts de vuit" (three quarters to eight). That's because of the bells of belfries. We use to the time with that before we had clocks so telling the time was based on how long the next hour would be and between one hour and the order you would hear the bells ring once, twice or three times.
@@jojolafrite9265 l'Occitanie ne faisait partie de la Catalogne. Évidemment, quelques parties de l'Occitanie étaient en dispute pendant beaucoup d'années. Cherchez "Batalla de Muret" sur l'Internet. Le roi français gagna ces territoires là. Et, si vous voulez dire le Roussillon, ça c'est vrai, le Roussillon faisait partie de la Catalogne et de la Corona d'Aragó (L'on ne peut pas parler d' "Espagne" encore, c'est une erreur historiographique). Et au 17ème siècle (si je ne vais trompé) il a été pris par les Français. Bref, le catalan se semble à l'occitan parce qu'ils sont des territoires voisins, parce que durant la Moyen Âge on avait encore la conviction que l'on parlait "la même langue" ou bien une chose de trés semblable, et il y a eu une connexion historique et parfois politique.
I’m from Barcelona. I think there’s sometimes two ways of saying the same thing: one that is closer to Spanish, and another closer to French. For instance, the sentence: “I don’t understand” can be said “No ho entenc”, which it’s close to “No lo entiendo” in Spanish. But we can also say “Jo no ho comprenc pas”, which it’s identical to French “je ne comprend pas”. However, we don’t need to put the pronoun and we don’t need “pas” either, so we can also say “No ho comprenc”, which it’s again close to Spanish grammatically, but with a different verb.
9:14 Hello. Just a little correction: in Catalan, the use of "ser" and "estar" does not depend on the language level. "El llibre és sota la caixa de maduixes" is the only correct form, both in colloquial and formal language, and "El llibre està sota la caixa de maduixes" is incorrect in all language levels. What's more, due to the Spanish influence, nowadays many people use the form "està" in this kind of sentence when they speak informally (it shouldn't be used in a lecture or a speach), but this form must be reverted to "és" in any written text, otherwise it's a big mistake.
Això es imposible i cada vegada menys. Es una questió de globalització i demografia. I no només pel castellà, sense anglés no pots viure en el mon cientific-tècnic
Soc filòleg en llengua catalana a València. M'agradaria dir-vos que el català és una llengua codificada pel filòleg Pompeu Fabra i ratificada per un cercle extens d'acadèmics l'any 1913, gràcies a la institució acadèmica a la qual pertanyien, l'Institut d'Estudis Catalans (IEC). L'any 1932, unes normes molt properes al català van ser ratificades al País Valencià. L'any 1932 els valencians van fer les adaptacions morfològiques i lèxiques oportunes per adaptar les normes catalanes de 1913 sense pensar que parlaven una altra llengua diferent del català de Catalunya.
My mother tongue is German, and, amongst others, I am fluent in French. I studied Catalan for five months, mostly self-study but also using online tutors. Then I went to Catalonia (had never been to Spain before) and could comfortably live in the language. Even though Catalan sounds more like a mix of Spanish and Italian to me, it is extremely close to French (as it is written). Let me put it that way: When I am speaking Catalan, I am basically speaking Old French with an Iberic accent. And, when I started to learn Catalan, I tried to climb the Catalan mountain from the Spanish side... this did not work well, perhaps because my Spanish is much weaker than my French. Since I am trying it from the French side, it works extremely well and I could go from level zero to admission to a B2.2 class in five months. Typically, Catalan people are impressed, but when I tell them that I speak fluent French, they all say: "Oh, you already speak French, then it's so easy to learn Catalan". For me, as for Catalan, vocabulary is closer to Spanish, phonetics closer to Italian, but structures, concepts and "mindset" closer to French.
I think Italian should be compared as well to understand it better. Italian has the same 8 vowel sound Catalan has, and many words in Catalan are identical to Italian. I think this just shows that the Roman influence was longer in Catalonia area than in other places. So Catalan vocabulary & pronunciation is close to Italian, but with some similarities with French & Spanish. But that’s obvious because French & Spanish also come from Latin. Still, there are words that are different in all languages (e.g. carrot 🥕 is also “carrota” in Italian, but zanahoria in Spanish, and pastanaga in Catalan)
In Spanish we also say "pieza", a cognate to French "pièce", to talk about a room. Just yesterday I called my mother, asked her what she was doing and she told me she was: "ordenando su pieza" which means tidying up her room. In the magazine example the article "la" is added in the Spanish translation so it reads: "revista de la mujer" but this doesn't sound quite right, it would sound we're talking about a magazine that's owned by a woman in particular. So we' d rather say "revista de mujer(es)" like in Catalan o "revista femenina" similarly to the French example.
Why not Spanish and French dialects of Catalan? The title is absurd because Catalonia never had geapgraphical borders with Castilian (now called Spanish) and French, but with Aragonese and Occitan (I understand that for beginners if you haven't a State you doesn't exist). Furthermore, have you heard about the dialectal continuum in Latin languages? As for Slavics, Gernanics or Celtics? The problem, again, is that you just acknoledge languages that have an army.
That much is obvious, but this video's target audience is lay people who are curious about Catalan and barely know the language. Most people don't know about the existence of Aragonese or Provençal, so it's more practical to make that comparison to more widely known Romance languages. T'agradi o no history has benefited some languages more than others and Spanish we'll never be viewed as a dialect of Catalan; simply because while the crown of Castille went on to build a global empire, Catalunia was just a small part of that political entity; although a very rich and influential one.
Hi there, I’m a native Catalan speaker and I’d say it’s closer to Castilian (aka Spanish) mostly because of the phonetics. However if we call the consensus among philologist, the 3 languages belongs to a different branches within the Romance languages family, being Catalan in the Occitano-romance family, which makes it actually closer to Occitan (the aboriginal language of most southern half of France state) rather than Castilian (ibero-romance) or French (Galo-romance). Btw, what’s the source for the map of languages distribution in the Spanish state shown at the beginning of this video? It shows a few substantial inaccuracies.
I got everything you said, and I don’t speak Catalan! In Portuguese, this phrase would be: “Creio que para um catalão é mais fácil entender italiano que francês.” So similar! 😂
A characteristic shared by both Catalan and Italian is that the possessive adjective is preceded by the article: el meu amic/il mio amico = my friend. This is not the case neither in Spanish (mi amigo) nor in French (mon ami).
Catalan is a language by itself. I agree that Catalan is closer to Spanish in terms of grammar and vocabulary, but it is phonetically closer to French. I have French friends who struggle to pronounce Spanish vocabulary, but do a great job pronouncing Catalan sentences. Best wishes from Barcelona!
While it’s not considered formal, putting an article before a name is not quite absent in Spanish. I’ve heard of people from Southern Spain, as well as Mexico use phrases like “El Juan”, “La Maria” etc quite often.
@@luca77289 Interesting. Not surprising though, our languages are far closer than they are apart. I'm a Spanish speaker myself. I got a question, do you use articles on names in standard Italian, or your regional language? Grazie per l'informazione!
@@VictorC234 putting articles before names is used in northern Italy, surely in Liguria (where I was born) and Lombardy (where I haved lived for several years). I can' t say for sure , but it is likely, that is also used in Piemonte / Veneto and Emilia Romagna. It is not used in the rest of Italy, certainly not here in Rome, where I live.
There is no point to compare to French language (derived from langue d'oyl) but it is much more relevant to compare with occitan (langue d'oc). Catalogne was part of Charlemagne's empire and called "la marche d'Espagne", a term that designate a peripheral territory geared to defense of the inland (from the arabs, then), and many of the leaders there were from the langue d'oc region...
Catalan is indeed closer to Spanish in terms of vocabulary, but its grammar is more complex than that of Spanish. You have elements like "hi" used like the adverbial pronoun "y" in French. There's also an "n", like in the verb "anar-se'n" and another one similar to the French pronoun "en".
@@cheeveka3 true, I was talking with a Valencian once and when she said that I thought she was pulling my leg. I thought she was saying "así" like in Spanish which made no sense in the context. 😅
Yeah, Catalan is in between Spanish and French (and Catalan has more in common with the Occitan dialects that were historically spoken in southern France) but I also find that many words in Catalan are also similar to Italian, especially since Catalonia is on the Mediterranean coast and the former Kingdom of Aragon also included southern Italy.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
Some annotations: The word "maduixa" in Catalan doesn't come from Latin "malūm". It's origin isn't certain but it might be pre-roman or Basque. The word departure can be "sortir" in French for other contexts, exactly like in Catalan, while Spanish "salir" isn't a cognate of the other two. "Avis" and "abuelos" are also cognates, even though the evolution from Latin into Catalan and Spanish has been quite different for these two words. Great video!
Besides, Latin malūm didn't refer to apples specifically until later, which is why the Christian Bible made Eve to munch on an apple. That was a mistranslation, as malūm originally referred to any sort of fruit on a tree. Since the 18th century though, also owing to this narrower meaning, botanists call the apple tree Malus domestica, where Malus refers to genus and domestica refers to species. Hebrew scripture never specified the actual fruit in Genesis, which made sense because the tree was a metaphorical one: the tree of knowledge. Malūm (no specific tree fruit) was a good translation in Latin. Genesis, in its tale of Eve's appetite and the curse of humans, was a much deeper story than most people think. I am a Catalan, French and Spanish native trilingual, and noticed a number of mistakes in the video, but I am still happy and grateful it was made. The Catalan language is an incredibly rich and beautiful language, with a first class literature moreover, since the 13th century (starting with a bang with Ramon Llull, a European classic). A language that continues to be undermined by Spain and France in every possible way. It needs urgent and radical policy changes to ensure its protection, or else its degradation and loss will very soon become unstoppable. Catalan speakers don't even realize how bad the situation has gotten, and are partly to blame for the situation. They endured so much linguistic repression over the centuries that a culturally fearful and submissive attitude developed, especially during the 20th century (half of it under ethnocidal military dictatorships). Thus, Catalans will almost always switch to Spanish with non Catalan speakers, which contributes to millions of people not making an effort to learn and adopt Catalan, continuing to speak or learning Spanish instead. If Catalans want to save their language, they mustn't wait for uncertain independence. They should simply never switch to Spanish, or keep it to an exceptional minimum. One can remain friendly, polite, and helpful, without switching, but reactions are often aggressive and most Catalans prefer to prevent them by bowing down. A fatal mistake, only explainable to the extent they are rarely aware how critical the situation has become over the last 30 years or so.
The closest language is obviously occitan. Indeed, until the 19th century catalan was often referred to as llemosí (limousin in French), an occitan dialect which served as a koine during the middle ages.
« A partir de 14h » would be more common in french about a check-in situation. As a French speaker, catalan sounds really close to castillan, but when reading it feels more familiar with those silent letters and final consonants, having a kind of old french vibe.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
@@jaumejoseoranies7948 Yes. As an Italian, I can tell you that I understand more Catalan than Castellano , provided both languages are spoken SLOWLY (for the God's sake, guys !). Maybe it's only me, in fact I'm from Genoa, in northwest Italy and our dialect belongs to the Gallo-Italic language family, part of the Western Romance Dialect Continuum , which Catalan is also part of .
9:30 For ser/estar use, El llibre és sota la caixa Ser verb is the only correct form her, the usage of estar is modern influence of spanish and not related to formality at all
I feel like if you have to ask if a language is a dialect of multiple languages (as in the title), then it’s definitely more far removed than a dialect. It’s like asking if Frisian is “just a dialect of English or Dutch”.
I’m french and speak castillan (spanish) as well. Catalan is closer to castillan, but it’s true that some features resemble to french. Actually the closest language is Oc (occitan).
Well, responding to the title, catalan did not even have a boarder with spanish or french until recent times. Catalan has its own distinct features and is yet another speech of the latin dialectal continuum
Since it shares more vocabulary with Spanish I want to say it's probably more easily understood by Spanish speakers and vice versa. If that's the case then I'd say it's close to Spanish.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
I am really intersted in study languages,thank you for your excellent information and all of those give astress that every languages in the world can not avoid influences of each other is same as my language indonesian which influenced so much from english,arabic,portugues,dutch,persian ,japanese ,chinese and so on.
My mother tongue is Portuguese and I speak some Spanish as well. In my experience, I can understand more less the half of what I hear in Catalan. Maybe it is closer to French than to the other Ibero Romance languages.
As an italian, spanish and catalan speaker, italian is clearly closer to italian that it is to spanish. Knowing theese three languages, i can understand occitan easily but french sound very like romanian in termsnof intellegibility. For me Italian is the closest language to catalan, specially the vernacular dialects (languages) of italy, and french is probably the furthest. For my experience, french people will also find italian more appealing than catalan
The progenitor of Spanish “estar” _does_ leave two vestiges in French. One is the past participle of “être”, “été”. The other is in the set phrase “ester en justice”, which means “be a party in legal proceedings”.
"Ester en justice"! In French, a circumflex accent, like "ê", is always translated to Catalan as the same vowel and a "s": ê for "es" (être for estar), "ô" for "os" (hôpital for hospital), and so on.
Dialect? It is a language on its own. Do you mean if it is more related to Castilian or to French? You should know that it is more related to French (and much more to Occitan).
The word “magazine” doesn’t come from English. It’s the other way around. Virtually all non-germanic words in English come from French. The etymology of “magazine”: late 16th century: from French magasin, from Italian magazzino, from Arabic maḵzin, maḵzan ‘storehouse’, from ḵazana ‘store up’. The term originally meant ‘store’ and was often used from the mid 17th century in the title of books providing information useful to particular groups of people, whence magazine (sense 1) (mid 18th century). magazine (sense 3), a contemporary specialization of the original meaning, gave rise to magazine (sense 2) in the mid 18th century.
Somehow "Occitan" comes out as "Octagon". But as someone who has studied Iberian Romance languages (Port., Sp., Cat.) I feel like I should get to know Occitan dialects better. I love the "Chants d'Auvergne" by Canteloube which show similarities to Catalan, such as the verb "anar" ("to go").
Galician and Portuguese have influence from the part of the Spanish peninsula with occupation of the Suebi. The Castilian (Spanish), Leonese (or Asturian) and Aragonese languages are from the Celtic part with Visigoth occupation. And the Catalan (valencian) and Occitan languages are from the Iberian peoples part (also under Visigoth occupation) which had more contact with the Italic peninsula.
The debate has been closed for years. We know very well that Catalan is a dialect close to Occitan. It is neither Castilian (Spanish) nor French. Yes, there is a lot of Castilian vocabulary due to the obvious contact between the two languages and yes, many words resemble French; but it must be understood that Catalan is Catalan and not one or other of its sister languages.
Catalan cannot be a dialect as it is older than French. Not so long ago, French (langue d'oïl) was spoken in the Northern half of France only, so not much influence between these 2 romance languages. Occitan (langue d'oc), now replaced by French, is very similar to Catalan, and people could understand each other from Poitiers in France to Alicante (Alacant) in Spain. Catalans used to say "OC" to say "YES". The Catalan language was born in present France, then crossed the Pyrenees and spread south.
Yu vidio na rili lay ɛn rɔng, Katalan na Ɔksitan in pikin, nɔto dayalɛkt we na Frɛnch ɔ Spanish, i go bi separet ɛn difrɛn brɔda ɛn neba fɔ dɛn bɔt nɔ ɛva bi dɛn ɔda pikin ya 2. Katalan gɛt in yon buk ɛn kɔlchɔ ɛn jiografi dat ɛn link ɛn sista frɔm di Occitania rijɔn. Di nem fɔ di langwej na Ɔksitan, nɔto Ɔktitan ɔ Ɔktiton, na Ɔksitan Vishɔn denja, i de ambɔg ɛn i nɔ gɛt ɛnitin fɔ du wit am. Tɔk di bɛsis tin dɛm fɔ dis langwej ɛn mek di netiv dɛm tɔk di dip tin dɛm bɔt di langwej, bɛtɛ pas fɔ kam akɔdin to pipul dɛm we ful ɛn nɔ no bɔt.
@@juanfran579 Although it is commonly know as an English word, 'exit' actually comes from Latin: exitus (noun masculine) Example: Dux milites ex oppido exire iussit. (Latin) O general mandou que os soldados saíssem da cidade. (Portuguese)
Ai vidio na rili lay ɛn rɔng, mi fren. Yu klin sey di Katalan na jes wan dayalɛkt ɔf di Frɛnch an di Spanish, bot dat na wan bɛg lai an insɔlt tu di ric lingwistik an kɔlcha hɛritij ɔf di Katalan pipul. Katalan na wan difrɛn Rɔmans langwej wit im ɔn grɛma, vokabula, an litara tradishɔn we don develop indipendet ova sɛnchɔris. Antik wan dayalɛkt, Katalan no bi wan sɔbɔdinat varia ɔf anɔda langwej. I gɛt ɔfisha stetas in Katalonia, di Balearik Ailans, an paat ɔf Valensia - rijɔns we i don dɛn spik ova wan tɔzɛn yia. Katalan kom bifo di emɛjɛns ɔf mɔda Frɛnch an Spanish, wit rut we trase bak tu Vɔlga Latin. Fɔ dismai Katalan as jes wan Frɛnch ɔ Spanish dayalɛkt na wan akt ɔf lingwistik impirialis, dɛnai di ɔtɔnɔmi an yunikiɲɛs ɔf dis Ibero-Rɔmans langwej. Katalan don sɔviv wev ɔf politikal an kɔlcha ɔprɛshɔn, mantɛn im aidɛntiti trɔ litara, mɛdia, an ɛjɔkeshɔn. Yu ignɔrant klɛm shɔ wan prafaun disrispɛk fɔ lingwistik daivɛsiti an di rait ɔf kɔmyunitis fɔ prɛzɛv dɛn mɔda tɔng. Ai sɔjes yu ɛjɔket yusef ɔn di hɪstri an stetas ɔf di Katalan langwej bifo yu mek sɔc bɛsles an ɔfɛnsiv stɛtmɛnts. Tru pɔlɪglɔts rekonaiz an sɛlibret di ricnɛs ɔf ɔl langwej, no jes di dɔminant wɔns.
A good enough superficial analysis (comparison). But if you consider that Catalan and Occitan were the same language until the end of the 19th century, it is absurd that one be an Ibero-Romance language and the other Gallo-Romance. Both are, rather, Italo-Romance, aren't they? I understand much better Castilian because I have studied it, else I think I would understand it much worse than Italian! Have you heard much Catalan? I think you have mostly heard "catanyol", mixture of Catalan and Spanish (Castilian).
Catalan is definitely closer to Spanish in character and pronunciation, even if it seems to have words in common with French. French is an outlier in the Romance group anyway as it has a strong phonetic influence from the Germanic Franks. Catalan looks more Italian than French sometimes: aquest = questo.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
@@Αντώνης-υ3ζ tots som dialectes del llatí ningú és dialecte de cap altre llengüa romànica... a la gent li encanta demostrar que la seva llengüa és més antiga i superior dient que l'altre llengüa és dialecte de la seva quant només és una evolució natural del llatí vulgar assimilat i barrejat amb les llengües locals 🙄
@@polyglotdreams Yo lo sé, estoy bromeando. Es un buen video (Pero es cierto que los catalanes son delicados con eso de llamar "dialecto" al catalán. Yo sé que el concepto lingüístico es diferente, pero en general decir "dialecto" en español carga todavía cierta connotación de "idioma de menor rango.")
@@victoraguirre5545 es un tema delicado porqué durante la época de Franco nos prohibieron hablar nuestro idioma y siempre nos decían que no teníamos idioma propio y que simplemente éramos un dialecto. Es una forma de despreciar y desacreditar una identidad cultural y lingüística porqué básicamente les estas diciendo que no existen... por eso decir que el catalán es un dialecto del castellano es algo que nos molesta a los catalanes por todo lo que pasó en esa época. A día de hoy hay gente que nos dicen que hablamos un dialecto y que hablemos bien que no se nos entiende... y pues claro es otro idioma románico más así que es normal que se parezcan pero no se entienda del todo
@@b2stparadise Eso lo sé y lo entiendo, pero es que en el sentido lingüístico, también es un dialecto, no respecto al español (o castellano, pues), pero sí paralelo a él (y a los demás idiomas románicos). No pretendo pelear por enésima vez esto, reitero lo que he dicho antes: uno no puede poner "dialecto" y "catalán" a la ligera por ahí, eso es todo lo que dije. También pasa con las lenguas indígenas acá en América, llamarlas dialectos sigue siendo una manera despreciativa, o cuando menos ignorante, de disminuir en el discurso su calidad de igualdad cultural respecto al español (o castellano, pues).
Castilian has always been spoken in Catalonia. It was used as a lingua franca throughout the Iberian peninsula. Gascon is a lot more like Spanish because they both have a basque substratum
No hay ni una sola toponimia en ese idioma. Que lo supiesen hablar comerciantes y gente noble no significa que se hablara. Se podría decir lo mismo de Portugal ya que había escritores portugueses escribiendo en castellano en la edad media o de Rusia, donde la nobleza sabía francés.
Diria que exactament igual, però nosaltres no tenim un estat propi amb el qual puguem posar la nostra llengua com a llengua d'aprenentatge obligat a Catalunya, País Valencià i les Illes Balears.
During the Soviet era, with the imposition of the Russian language and culture, I think the circumstances were similar to the Catalan 18th century (first years of the Castilian occupation of Catalonia) but now, after 310 years of the Spanish invasion it is much worse!
@@pitrris Catalunya ha segut un país independent. És un fet històric innegable i inapel·lable. Que ens digues que hem d'acceptar la mort de la nostra llengua perquè "és lo que n'hi ha" i que després parles "andalús" és força trist i contradictori. Jo sempre respectaré qualsevol manera de parlar una llengua (que m'ho diguen a mi, que soc valencià i els catalans de Girona se'n riuen de nosaltres, occidentals!). I d'altra banda, que generalitzes i condemnes uns fets que van succeir fa un grapat d'anys no és adequat. I puc assegurar-te que en la meua experiència, ací, els andalusos són molt orgullosos de la seua parla i de les seues costums i la seua musiqueta, però no els tremola la mà per a cagar-se en la nostra cultura sencera. I les víctimes sou vosaltres...
Everybody outside Catalonia knows that it is a primitive dialect, but catalonians are happy with their beliefs, so live and let live. Spanish , Engish and Chinese will be kings for many decades or centuries.
You say something stupid. There are no "primitive dialects nor primitive languages". As a matter of fact your comment shows that you dont know what a dialect is Catalan is a beautiful LANGUAGE with its own literature going backwards unil Ramon Llul. Catalan is so important as Asturian, but the Spanish centralism and linguistic imposition want to rub out all the languages that developed in the different areas, as the fucking orders of Charles III prohibited our languages in America. Visca Catalunya lliure fora de la meuca Espanya!!!!
Catalan is not Spanish dialect, neither french dialect. it's a sister language of Occitan.
Si 😊
In deepest true a son idiom of Occitan, the guardian of Occitan today ❤❤❤❤
And a sister language of Spanish and French for that matter.
@@ReiKakarikiIt's more accurate to say that both Occitan and Catalan are Occitano-Romance sister languages, but Catalan is not descended from modern Occitan per se.
@@Louisianish It comes easily to me, you almost come to me, you even mentioned that Catalan and Occitan are from the same family, this is already more than obvious to the world, calm down, the current Catalan does not come from the current Occitan and vice versa, that is obvious, it's just that you lack understanding and training to see that both current Occitan and current Catalan come from medieval senile Occitan, that's what I'm referring to, it's the lack of this precious detail that makes your speech incongruous and even outside Catalan-Occitan linguistics.
Hugs to ya mate 🆒🍷🫂
The closest languages to Catalan are Occitan and Aragonese (the other Occitano-Romance languages that surround Catalan). French is a Galo-Romance language with a very distinct phonetic system and many Germanic loanwords. However, in many cases, the core of Catalan is closer to the Galo-Romance languages than to the Ibero-Romance languages, something that can be seen on the basic vocabulary and grammar of Catalan (the pronouns "en/hi", adverbs such as "gaire, gens,...", verbs like "menjar, anar, voler, pujar..."). The Ibero-Romance languages, with Spanish as the most spoken language of the group, underwent a series of linguistic changes that Catalan didn't (most of them).
The thing here is, with a core closer to Galo-Romance languages (French,...), the huge influence from Spanish has laid a thick cover above the Catalan core that brings it closer to the Ibero-Romance languages (Spanish,...). Many words have been lost in favour of the Spanish ones, the grammar and phonetics are changing and the new technological words usually come through Spanish. This phenomenon is the result of the diglossia process and will end up with Spanish erasing Catalan if it isn't stopped.
As a Catalan person, I hope to see a day where Catalan's future isn't threatened by Spanish, wheather that is with independence or not.
Hola, germàn! En present, ocurreixen moltes vegades quan oic lo catalàn central i observeixo que.. La pronunción va cauent al costat de l'espanyol. Millor sigui que caiga al costat del francès perquè on es més apropat al catalàn en sonar.. Mas n'aquest cas se quedi res quasi del catalàn com ocurrí amb lo septentrinal que't parli ara. Marqui moltíssimes de paraules non catalanes, non es ben. Non s'importa si Catalunya sigui independenta o non, lo més principal es que non presionin a la nòstra cultura i llengua. Mas lo sigueixen fent mentre fent l'aspect que defenden a Catalunya deslliurant als encarcelats polítics. Mas, lo fan sóls per una cosa: agregar (o millor dire achetar) els seus vots per à si. En realitat van fent mal a si mateixes tamben. Ami a Espanya i a Catalunya, i a Portugal i non vull veure com els germàns més apropats se morden entre sí. Se deu proteger-lo de veritat i al cas contrari haurà de cortar la cordas qui tenen el barc catalàn. Mas, en qualsevol cas, es necesari deixar de jugar als jocs ultra-lliberals per tota l'Europa perque van a degradar-nos com un poble. Viva España, visca Catalunya, visca Portugal, visca la Cristiandat i Europa entera! Des del Cap de la Roca cap a Vladivostok rus! ;)
It's not la “Família Sagrada”, but “La Sagrada Família”.
Catalonia is not the unique place where Catalan is spoken. I was raised and born in Valencian Country, and I speak the same language. In terms of repression, we suffered the same type of wearing.
And Andorra is actually the only sovereign nation where Catalan is the official language.
In Andorra and Catalonia, now, Catalan and Aranese are the true officials idioms, the same bless Valencia and Aragon and Alicant can catch too.❤❤❤❤❤
@@ReiKakariki Balearic Islands / Illes Balears tambien
@@L-mo It's implicit Balearic islands of course.
Le catalan n'est pas seulement parlé sur le territoire de la Généralité de Catalogne, en Andorre, et dans les Baléares : il est aussi parlé en Aragon, en Sardaigne (l'Alguer) et dans le département des Pyrénées-Orientales (c'est d'ailleurs là qu'est née la Catalogne, au pied du Canigó !)...
First thing you got wrong:
The name of the church: it's "la Sagrada Família" not the other way around.
Secong thing, but don't worry, everyone out of Catalonia says it incorrectly, is Antoni Gaudí, here you have the syllables you have to stress:
"anTOni gauDÍ" (do you see the accent? Is telling you to stress the last syllable, not the first one).
Now, something you got right, is that Catalan was forbidden more than once, but you missing the historical events that originated those prohibitions, like The Succession War, the Spanish Civil War both Primo de Rivera and Franco (the worse one) dictatorships. And what happened then.
My farher was a six year old when he started learning Spanish at school, he was both a Catalan and French speaker due to her cousins in Montpellier. The first day of school (during Franco's dictatorship) he said "Bon dia" (good morning in Catalan) and then the teacher hit him and said: "¡HABLA EN CRISTIANO NINÑO!" (Speak in Christian kid!), and then scared he said "bonjour" an the same thing happened.
Catalan has survived lot's of things, right before the "Renaixença" (the literally movement that came to Europe around the 19th century) the Catalan literature that survived were Traditional and Popular fairy tales.
And that Catalan French speaking part was actually part from Catalonia until it was given to France by the Spanish Monarchy.
The most similar language to Catalan isn't neither Spanish nor French, it's Occitan, in fact, we can have a full conversation with one and other without knowing how to speak the other language.
Another thing wrong. The catalan spoken in Girona isn't central Catalan but just Eastern Catalan.
Fun fact! In Catalan we can use some optional words that in French are basically mandatory.
Like French possesive pronouns: "ma, mon, ta, ton, sa, son..."
In Catalan the standard ones are: "la meva, el meu, la teva, el teu, la seva, el seu..."
But, in coloquial Catalan, we can also use the French ones: instead of "el teu pare i la teva mare" (your father and your mother) we can also say: "ton pare i ta mare". But NOT in formal Catalan, just in Catalan from the streets.
Then, for a negative sentence in French is compulsory to use the word "pas", in Catalan we use it as an emphasis, we can choose to use that word to make it fancier to have a point, but the sentence is right without it as well:
"Ce n'est pas bon" (this isn't good) in Catalan would be: "això no és bò" but we can definitely say "això no és pas bò" which emphasis the fact that is definitely isn't good.
It is English the one that borrows French words by the way, mostly.
In Catalan we also use the word "restar" not "rester" though, but mostly to reffer to something that we still have, to refer something that is still left: "resten 10 minuts per acabar l'escola" (there's 10 minutes left until the school ends). "Resten 5 pomes a la nevera" (there are 5 apples left in the fridge).
We can say "l'enregistrament" in Catalan too.
And careful with the time. Catalan hours are difficult, even lots of Catalan cannot tell the time in Catalan. We use quarters but in the future, it is similar to the English use of "to".
A quarter past One (13:15) in Catalan is "un quart de dues" ("a quarter to two")
Half past 10 (10:30) in Catan is "dos quarts d'onze (two quarters to eleven)
And a quarter to eight (7:45) in Catalan is "tres quarts de vuit" (three quarters to eight).
That's because of the bells of belfries. We use to the time with that before we had clocks so telling the time was based on how long the next hour would be and between one hour and the order you would hear the bells ring once, twice or three times.
A Girona s'hi parla català central, eh.
Catalan is the closest to the Occitan language, that was historically spoken in southern France.
Yes I mentioned that in the video
l'Occitanie fessait partie de la Catalogne ESPAGNOLE
Voilà pourquoi la langue catalane es semblables a la langue de l'Occitanie. Vous comprenez 😉
Or is it Aranese?
The 2 flags for Catalonia shown may be confusing for some who don't know the distinction.
@@jojolafrite9265 l'Occitanie ne faisait partie de la Catalogne. Évidemment, quelques parties de l'Occitanie étaient en dispute pendant beaucoup d'années. Cherchez "Batalla de Muret" sur l'Internet. Le roi français gagna ces territoires là. Et, si vous voulez dire le Roussillon, ça c'est vrai, le Roussillon faisait partie de la Catalogne et de la Corona d'Aragó (L'on ne peut pas parler d' "Espagne" encore, c'est une erreur historiographique). Et au 17ème siècle (si je ne vais trompé) il a été pris par les Français.
Bref, le catalan se semble à l'occitan parce qu'ils sont des territoires voisins, parce que durant la Moyen Âge on avait encore la conviction que l'on parlait "la même langue" ou bien une chose de trés semblable, et il y a eu une connexion historique et parfois politique.
@@jojolafrite9265Mais l'occitan et le catalan sont tous les deux des langues occitano-romanes.
I’m from Barcelona. I think there’s sometimes two ways of saying the same thing: one that is closer to Spanish, and another closer to French. For instance, the sentence: “I don’t understand” can be said “No ho entenc”, which it’s close to “No lo entiendo” in Spanish. But we can also say “Jo no ho comprenc pas”, which it’s identical to French “je ne comprend pas”. However, we don’t need to put the pronoun and we don’t need “pas” either, so we can also say “No ho comprenc”, which it’s again close to Spanish grammatically, but with a different verb.
Thank you for spreading knowledge of catalan!! ^^
És un honor que grans canals de youtube com el teu pugui divulgar aquest bonic idioma, el català ^^
Un plaer
9:14 Hello. Just a little correction: in Catalan, the use of "ser" and "estar" does not depend on the language level. "El llibre és sota la caixa de maduixes" is the only correct form, both in colloquial and formal language, and "El llibre està sota la caixa de maduixes" is incorrect in all language levels. What's more, due to the Spanish influence, nowadays many people use the form "està" in this kind of sentence when they speak informally (it shouldn't be used in a lecture or a speach), but this form must be reverted to "és" in any written text, otherwise it's a big mistake.
Thank you for this video! Very interesting and nice to see the point of view from a foreigner polyglot!
Thank you
Volem viure plenament en català! Tant de bo siga possible un dia!
Great!
Això es imposible i cada vegada menys. Es una questió de globalització i demografia. I no només pel castellà, sense anglés no pots viure en el mon cientific-tècnic
Soc filòleg en llengua catalana a València. M'agradaria dir-vos que el català és una llengua codificada pel filòleg Pompeu Fabra i ratificada per un cercle extens d'acadèmics l'any 1913, gràcies a la institució acadèmica a la qual pertanyien, l'Institut d'Estudis Catalans (IEC). L'any 1932, unes normes molt properes al català van ser ratificades al País Valencià. L'any 1932 els valencians van fer les adaptacions morfològiques i lèxiques oportunes per adaptar les normes catalanes de 1913 sense pensar que parlaven una altra llengua diferent del català de Catalunya.
Thanks for the input
Que dice Harry, que dice.
Very interesting video, thanks for providing such insight to this topic! I'd love to learn some Catalan in the future!
Thanks... I hope all is going well with your project
@@polyglotdreams Thanks! Working hard, learning new things everyday, I love it!
My mother tongue is German, and, amongst others, I am fluent in French. I studied Catalan for five months, mostly self-study but also using online tutors. Then I went to Catalonia (had never been to Spain before) and could comfortably live in the language.
Even though Catalan sounds more like a mix of Spanish and Italian to me, it is extremely close to French (as it is written). Let me put it that way: When I am speaking Catalan, I am basically speaking Old French with an Iberic accent. And, when I started to learn Catalan, I tried to climb the Catalan mountain from the Spanish side... this did not work well, perhaps because my Spanish is much weaker than my French. Since I am trying it from the French side, it works extremely well and I could go from level zero to admission to a B2.2 class in five months.
Typically, Catalan people are impressed, but when I tell them that I speak fluent French, they all say: "Oh, you already speak French, then it's so easy to learn Catalan".
For me, as for Catalan, vocabulary is closer to Spanish, phonetics closer to Italian, but structures, concepts and "mindset" closer to French.
I think Italian should be compared as well to understand it better. Italian has the same 8 vowel sound Catalan has, and many words in Catalan are identical to Italian. I think this just shows that the Roman influence was longer in Catalonia area than in other places. So Catalan vocabulary & pronunciation is close to Italian, but with some similarities with French & Spanish. But that’s obvious because French & Spanish also come from Latin. Still, there are words that are different in all languages (e.g. carrot 🥕 is also “carrota” in Italian, but zanahoria in Spanish, and pastanaga in Catalan)
I was just writing that when I saw your reply.... I agree, an argument could be made that Italian is at least as close
In Spanish we also say "pieza", a cognate to French "pièce", to talk about a room. Just yesterday I called my mother, asked her what she was doing and she told me she was: "ordenando su pieza" which means tidying up her room. In the magazine example the article "la" is added in the Spanish translation so it reads: "revista de la mujer" but this doesn't sound quite right, it would sound we're talking about a magazine that's owned by a woman in particular. So we' d rather say "revista de mujer(es)" like in Catalan o "revista femenina" similarly to the French example.
Thanks so much for the input
Why not Spanish and French dialects of Catalan? The title is absurd because Catalonia never had geapgraphical borders with Castilian (now called Spanish) and French, but with Aragonese and Occitan (I understand that for beginners if you haven't a State you doesn't exist). Furthermore, have you heard about the dialectal continuum in Latin languages? As for Slavics, Gernanics or Celtics? The problem, again, is that you just acknoledge languages that have an army.
That much is obvious, but this video's target audience is lay people who are curious about Catalan and barely know the language. Most people don't know about the existence of Aragonese or Provençal, so it's more practical to make that comparison to more widely known Romance languages. T'agradi o no history has benefited some languages more than others and Spanish we'll never be viewed as a dialect of Catalan; simply because while the crown of Castille went on to build a global empire, Catalunia was just a small part of that political entity; although a very rich and influential one.
15:45 you can remove the last word (personnes) in the french translation, it also works.
Portuguese is much closer to Spanish than Catalan. Catalan people are absolutely different from Spaniards.
With love from Kazakhstan
Spanish and Portuguese are closer to Latin, Catalan closer to French
No tiene ni puñetera idea.
Hi there, I’m a native Catalan speaker and I’d say it’s closer to Castilian (aka Spanish) mostly because of the phonetics. However if we call the consensus among philologist, the 3 languages belongs to a different branches within the Romance languages family, being Catalan in the Occitano-romance family, which makes it actually closer to Occitan (the aboriginal language of most southern half of France state) rather than Castilian (ibero-romance) or French (Galo-romance).
Btw, what’s the source for the map of languages distribution in the Spanish state shown at the beginning of this video? It shows a few substantial inaccuracies.
Thanks for your input
Exactly!!
It omits Italian at the bottom row !! Why ??
14:14 you can also say "à partir de" in french, it may be even more apropriate in te context of the sentence.
Crec que per un català és més fàcil entendre italià que francès.
Yes, for sure
Effectivement
I got everything you said, and I don’t speak Catalan! In Portuguese, this phrase would be:
“Creio que para um catalão é mais fácil entender italiano que francês.”
So similar! 😂
@@diegoflorencio jo també t'hauria entès a tu. 🤗
@@diegoflorencio és la màgia de les llengües romàniques 🥰
A characteristic shared by both Catalan and Italian is that the possessive adjective is preceded by the article: el meu amic/il mio amico = my friend. This is not the case neither in Spanish (mi amigo) nor in French (mon ami).
But in catalan we also have the possesives mon, ton son, ma, ta , sa but we nearly only use it for familiars. Mon pare, ma tieta.
@@marcb1125 In Italian, too: "mio padre, mia madre" but "il mio papà, la mia mamma"
Catalan is a language by itself. I agree that Catalan is closer to Spanish in terms of grammar and vocabulary, but it is phonetically closer to French. I have French friends who struggle to pronounce Spanish vocabulary, but do a great job pronouncing Catalan sentences. Best wishes from Barcelona!
Why always people have to mention the independent movement. As catalan i'm a little tired. The majority of catalans aren't independentists.
jo hi soc prou escèptic, però potser la independència siga l'única manera de salvar la llengua i protegir la catalanitat en general.
True, the Catoc country should be flourish, birth.
While it’s not considered formal, putting an article before a name is not quite absent in Spanish. I’ve heard of people from Southern Spain, as well as Mexico use phrases like “El Juan”, “La Maria” etc quite often.
The same here in Northern Italy !
@@luca77289 Interesting. Not surprising though, our languages are far closer than they are apart. I'm a Spanish speaker myself. I got a question, do you use articles on names in standard Italian, or your regional language? Grazie per l'informazione!
@@VictorC234 putting articles before names is used in northern Italy, surely in Liguria (where I was born) and Lombardy (where I haved lived for several years). I can' t say for sure , but it is likely, that is also used in Piemonte / Veneto and Emilia Romagna. It is not used in the rest of Italy, certainly not here in Rome, where I live.
There is no point to compare to French language (derived from langue d'oyl) but it is much more relevant to compare with occitan (langue d'oc). Catalogne was part of Charlemagne's empire and called "la marche d'Espagne", a term that designate a peripheral territory geared to defense of the inland (from the arabs, then), and many of the leaders there were from the langue d'oc region...
Catalan is indeed closer to Spanish in terms of vocabulary, but its grammar is more complex than that of Spanish. You have elements like "hi" used like the adverbial pronoun "y" in French. There's also an "n", like in the verb "anar-se'n" and another one similar to the French pronoun "en".
Yes... thanks for sharing
In Valencian the way to say “aqui” is “Ací” which is closer to French 😅
@@cheeveka3 true, I was talking with a Valencian once and when she said that I thought she was pulling my leg. I thought she was saying "así" like in Spanish which made no sense in the context. 😅
Yeah, Catalan is in between Spanish and French (and Catalan has more in common with the Occitan dialects that were historically spoken in southern France) but I also find that many words in Catalan are also similar to Italian, especially since Catalonia is on the Mediterranean coast and the former Kingdom of Aragon also included southern Italy.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
Some annotations:
The word "maduixa" in Catalan doesn't come from Latin "malūm". It's origin isn't certain but it might be pre-roman or Basque.
The word departure can be "sortir" in French for other contexts, exactly like in Catalan, while Spanish "salir" isn't a cognate of the other two.
"Avis" and "abuelos" are also cognates, even though the evolution from Latin into Catalan and Spanish has been quite different for these two words.
Great video!
Besides, Latin malūm didn't refer to apples specifically until later, which is why the Christian Bible made Eve to munch on an apple. That was a mistranslation, as malūm originally referred to any sort of fruit on a tree. Since the 18th century though, also owing to this narrower meaning, botanists call the apple tree Malus domestica, where Malus refers to genus and domestica refers to species. Hebrew scripture never specified the actual fruit in Genesis, which made sense because the tree was a metaphorical one: the tree of knowledge. Malūm (no specific tree fruit) was a good translation in Latin. Genesis, in its tale of Eve's appetite and the curse of humans, was a much deeper story than most people think.
I am a Catalan, French and Spanish native trilingual, and noticed a number of mistakes in the video, but I am still happy and grateful it was made. The Catalan language is an incredibly rich and beautiful language, with a first class literature moreover, since the 13th century (starting with a bang with Ramon Llull, a European classic). A language that continues to be undermined by Spain and France in every possible way. It needs urgent and radical policy changes to ensure its protection, or else its degradation and loss will very soon become unstoppable.
Catalan speakers don't even realize how bad the situation has gotten, and are partly to blame for the situation. They endured so much linguistic repression over the centuries that a culturally fearful and submissive attitude developed, especially during the 20th century (half of it under ethnocidal military dictatorships). Thus, Catalans will almost always switch to Spanish with non Catalan speakers, which contributes to millions of people not making an effort to learn and adopt Catalan, continuing to speak or learning Spanish instead.
If Catalans want to save their language, they mustn't wait for uncertain independence. They should simply never switch to Spanish, or keep it to an exceptional minimum. One can remain friendly, polite, and helpful, without switching, but reactions are often aggressive and most Catalans prefer to prevent them by bowing down. A fatal mistake, only explainable to the extent they are rarely aware how critical the situation has become over the last 30 years or so.
The closest language is obviously occitan. Indeed, until the 19th century catalan was often referred to as llemosí (limousin in French), an occitan dialect which served as a koine during the middle ages.
« A partir de 14h » would be more common in french about a check-in situation.
As a French speaker, catalan sounds really close to castillan, but when reading it feels more familiar with those silent letters and final consonants, having a kind of old french vibe.
If you guys hadn't gone crazy with erasing SO MANY vowels and consonants, we'd be able to understand each other way better 🤣
Is it easy to distinguish Catalan from Italian languages?
@@jinengi We did not erase them, we just don't pronounce them all... ;)
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
@@jaumejoseoranies7948 Yes. As an Italian, I can tell you that I understand more Catalan than Castellano , provided both languages are spoken SLOWLY (for the God's sake, guys !). Maybe it's only me, in fact I'm from Genoa, in northwest Italy and our dialect belongs to the Gallo-Italic language family, part of the Western Romance Dialect Continuum , which Catalan is also part of .
9:30
For ser/estar use,
El llibre és sota la caixa
Ser verb is the only correct form her, the usage of estar is modern influence of spanish and not related to formality at all
I feel like if you have to ask if a language is a dialect of multiple languages (as in the title), then it’s definitely more far removed than a dialect. It’s like asking if Frisian is “just a dialect of English or Dutch”.
La revue can be used instead of “le magazine” in French.
I’m french and speak castillan (spanish) as well. Catalan is closer to castillan, but it’s true that some features resemble to french. Actually the closest language is Oc (occitan).
Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of states (there is the Occitan in between)..
Well, responding to the title, catalan did not even have a boarder with spanish or french until recent times. Catalan has its own distinct features and is yet another speech of the latin dialectal continuum
Since it shares more vocabulary with Spanish I want to say it's probably more easily understood by Spanish speakers and vice versa. If that's the case then I'd say it's close to Spanish.
Did you watch the whole video?
@@polyglotdreams Yes? I don't know the answer I'm taking a shot in the dark really. I only have beginner knowledge of both languages.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
@@eugenicasanovasolanes8338 So the answer to the question of which is closer to Catalan is neither of them? That’s boring.
I am really intersted in study languages,thank you for your excellent information and all of those give astress that every languages in the world can not avoid influences of each other is same as my language indonesian which influenced so much from english,arabic,portugues,dutch,persian ,japanese ,chinese and so on.
My mother tongue is Portuguese and I speak some Spanish as well. In my experience, I can understand more less the half of what I hear in Catalan. Maybe it is closer to French than to the other Ibero Romance languages.
it definitely is especially in the french catalan region.
Yes, as in the above comment, the dialect makes a big difference
That's wishful thinking. Catalan may sound "the least Iberic", but it still sounds more Iberian than anything French. It doesn't sound french.
@@polyglotdreamsCatalan is not a dialect puzz1!!!
Totally bullsh1t these comments here
“À partir de” also exists in French
Maybe the Polyglot dreams of learning how to pronounce French and Catalan words properly.
As an italian, spanish and catalan speaker, italian is clearly closer to italian that it is to spanish. Knowing theese three languages, i can understand occitan easily but french sound very like romanian in termsnof intellegibility.
For me Italian is the closest language to catalan, specially the vernacular dialects (languages) of italy, and french is probably the furthest. For my experience, french people will also find italian more appealing than catalan
Thanks for your perspective
The progenitor of Spanish “estar” _does_ leave two vestiges in French. One is the past participle of “être”, “été”. The other is in the set phrase “ester en justice”, which means “be a party in legal proceedings”.
"Ester en justice"! In French, a circumflex accent, like "ê", is always translated to Catalan as the same vowel and a "s": ê for "es" (être for estar), "ô" for "os" (hôpital for hospital), and so on.
Me gustan las tres dichas lenguas.
Dialect? It is a language on its own. Do you mean if it is more related to Castilian or to French? You should know that it is more related to French (and much more to Occitan).
The word “magazine” doesn’t come from English. It’s the other way around. Virtually all non-germanic words in English come from French. The etymology of “magazine”:
late 16th century: from French magasin, from Italian magazzino, from Arabic maḵzin, maḵzan ‘storehouse’, from ḵazana ‘store up’. The term originally meant ‘store’ and was often used from the mid 17th century in the title of books providing information useful to particular groups of people, whence magazine (sense 1) (mid 18th century). magazine (sense 3), a contemporary specialization of the original meaning, gave rise to magazine (sense 2) in the mid 18th century.
Somehow "Occitan" comes out as "Octagon". But as someone who has studied Iberian Romance languages (Port., Sp., Cat.) I feel like I should get to know Occitan dialects better. I love the "Chants d'Auvergne" by Canteloube which show similarities to Catalan, such as the verb "anar" ("to go").
Galician and Portuguese have influence from the part of the Spanish peninsula with occupation of the Suebi. The Castilian (Spanish), Leonese (or Asturian) and Aragonese languages are from the Celtic part with Visigoth occupation. And the Catalan (valencian) and Occitan languages are from the Iberian peoples part (also under Visigoth occupation) which had more contact with the Italic peninsula.
Very similar issue with Silesian.
Yes
In Lebanon we say "taula" for table and have many French cognates for other words.
"tawila" is the arabic word for table, it's not french
I just read a guy saying that castellano was always spoke in Catalunya,how hilarious.
The debate has been closed for years. We know very well that Catalan is a dialect close to Occitan. It is neither Castilian (Spanish) nor French. Yes, there is a lot of Castilian vocabulary due to the obvious contact between the two languages and yes, many words resemble French; but it must be understood that Catalan is Catalan and not one or other of its sister languages.
That's what I said in the video 📹
Il y a aussi le mot « revue » pour dire « magasine » en français. Il est plus rare par contre
Catalan cannot be a dialect as it is older than French. Not so long ago, French (langue d'oïl) was spoken in the Northern half of France only, so not much influence between these 2 romance languages. Occitan (langue d'oc), now replaced by French, is very similar to Catalan, and people could understand each other from Poitiers in France to Alicante (Alacant) in Spain. Catalans used to say "OC" to say "YES". The Catalan language was born in present France, then crossed the Pyrenees and spread south.
True, and includes Balearics islands and Alguero too, catalan occitan areas too.
I speak both French and Spanish and to my ears, Catalan sounds more like a
SPANISH Tham French
Vaya pregunta estúpida...Basta informarse mínimamente.
Yu vidio na rili lay ɛn rɔng, Katalan na Ɔksitan in pikin, nɔto dayalɛkt we na Frɛnch ɔ Spanish, i go bi separet ɛn difrɛn brɔda ɛn neba fɔ dɛn bɔt nɔ ɛva bi dɛn ɔda pikin ya 2. Katalan gɛt in yon buk ɛn kɔlchɔ ɛn jiografi dat ɛn link ɛn sista frɔm di Occitania rijɔn.
Di nem fɔ di langwej na Ɔksitan, nɔto Ɔktitan ɔ Ɔktiton, na Ɔksitan Vishɔn denja, i de ambɔg ɛn i nɔ gɛt ɛnitin fɔ du wit am.
Tɔk di bɛsis tin dɛm fɔ dis langwej ɛn mek di netiv dɛm tɔk di dip tin dɛm bɔt di langwej, bɛtɛ pas fɔ kam akɔdin to pipul dɛm we ful ɛn nɔ no bɔt.
Is English just a dialect of German or French?
Sortida from Catala is closer to Sortie from French, rather than Salida from Spanish (or Saída from Portuguese)
Whereas eixida (Valencian/West Catalan) is more similar to exit.
@@juanfran579 Although it is commonly know as an English word, 'exit' actually comes from Latin: exitus (noun masculine)
Example:
Dux milites ex oppido exire iussit. (Latin)
O general mandou que os soldados saíssem da cidade. (Portuguese)
Ai vidio na rili lay ɛn rɔng, mi fren. Yu klin sey di Katalan na jes wan dayalɛkt ɔf di Frɛnch an di Spanish, bot dat na wan bɛg lai an insɔlt tu di ric lingwistik an kɔlcha hɛritij ɔf di Katalan pipul. Katalan na wan difrɛn Rɔmans langwej wit im ɔn grɛma, vokabula, an litara tradishɔn we don develop indipendet ova sɛnchɔris.
Antik wan dayalɛkt, Katalan no bi wan sɔbɔdinat varia ɔf anɔda langwej. I gɛt ɔfisha stetas in Katalonia, di Balearik Ailans, an paat ɔf Valensia - rijɔns we i don dɛn spik ova wan tɔzɛn yia. Katalan kom bifo di emɛjɛns ɔf mɔda Frɛnch an Spanish, wit rut we trase bak tu Vɔlga Latin.
Fɔ dismai Katalan as jes wan Frɛnch ɔ Spanish dayalɛkt na wan akt ɔf lingwistik impirialis, dɛnai di ɔtɔnɔmi an yunikiɲɛs ɔf dis Ibero-Rɔmans langwej. Katalan don sɔviv wev ɔf politikal an kɔlcha ɔprɛshɔn, mantɛn im aidɛntiti trɔ litara, mɛdia, an ɛjɔkeshɔn.
Yu ignɔrant klɛm shɔ wan prafaun disrispɛk fɔ lingwistik daivɛsiti an di rait ɔf kɔmyunitis fɔ prɛzɛv dɛn mɔda tɔng. Ai sɔjes yu ɛjɔket yusef ɔn di hɪstri an stetas ɔf di Katalan langwej bifo yu mek sɔc bɛsles an ɔfɛnsiv stɛtmɛnts. Tru pɔlɪglɔts rekonaiz an sɛlibret di ricnɛs ɔf ɔl langwej, no jes di dɔminant wɔns.
A good enough superficial analysis (comparison). But if you consider that Catalan and Occitan were the same language until the end of the 19th century, it is absurd that one be an Ibero-Romance language and the other Gallo-Romance. Both are, rather, Italo-Romance, aren't they?
I understand much better Castilian because I have studied it, else I think I would understand it much worse than Italian!
Have you heard much Catalan? I think you have mostly heard "catanyol", mixture of Catalan and Spanish (Castilian).
Some of what you say could actually work better with a comparison / similarity with European Portuguese…
Catalan is definitely closer to Spanish in character and pronunciation, even if it seems to have words in common with French. French is an outlier in the Romance group anyway as it has a strong phonetic influence from the Germanic Franks. Catalan looks more Italian than French sometimes: aquest = questo.
Have you heard about Occitan, Arpitan or Aragonsese? Catalan and French had historically no geographical contact excep in the manipulated school of the oficial states.
@@eugenicasanovasolanes8338 I was just answering the question. Also not only have heard /of/ Occitan, I actually *heard* some.
Indeed, English borrows "magazine" from French, not the opposite as said in the video.
speaking Portuguese and if there was a Portuguese dialect, Catalan could be it
Excusa, acho que e o português o dialeto do Catalao.
@@eugenicasanovasolanes8338 Não, não é. Vocês é que falam um dialecto do castelhano, do francês e do italiano...
@@Αντώνης-υ3ζ tots som dialectes del llatí ningú és dialecte de cap altre llengüa romànica... a la gent li encanta demostrar que la seva llengüa és més antiga i superior dient que l'altre llengüa és dialecte de la seva quant només és una evolució natural del llatí vulgar assimilat i barrejat amb les llengües locals 🙄
@@Αντώνης-υ3ζ portuguese is galician gone wrong
Occitan! Not Octican!
My surname is catalan and not common in philippines which is mainly castillian
I don't understand the examples at the beginning : I don't speak Catala so I don't see the similaritied between the (Romance) examples
Noooooo, chavón, no puedes andar poniendo esos títulos que te van a funar.
Pero lo que digo es differente...
@@polyglotdreams Yo lo sé, estoy bromeando. Es un buen video (Pero es cierto que los catalanes son delicados con eso de llamar "dialecto" al catalán. Yo sé que el concepto lingüístico es diferente, pero en general decir "dialecto" en español carga todavía cierta connotación de "idioma de menor rango.")
@@victoraguirre5545 es un tema delicado porqué durante la época de Franco nos prohibieron hablar nuestro idioma y siempre nos decían que no teníamos idioma propio y que simplemente éramos un dialecto. Es una forma de despreciar y desacreditar una identidad cultural y lingüística porqué básicamente les estas diciendo que no existen... por eso decir que el catalán es un dialecto del castellano es algo que nos molesta a los catalanes por todo lo que pasó en esa época. A día de hoy hay gente que nos dicen que hablamos un dialecto y que hablemos bien que no se nos entiende... y pues claro es otro idioma románico más así que es normal que se parezcan pero no se entienda del todo
@@b2stparadise Eso lo sé y lo entiendo, pero es que en el sentido lingüístico, también es un dialecto, no respecto al español (o castellano, pues), pero sí paralelo a él (y a los demás idiomas románicos). No pretendo pelear por enésima vez esto, reitero lo que he dicho antes: uno no puede poner "dialecto" y "catalán" a la ligera por ahí, eso es todo lo que dije. También pasa con las lenguas indígenas acá en América, llamarlas dialectos sigue siendo una manera despreciativa, o cuando menos ignorante, de disminuir en el discurso su calidad de igualdad cultural respecto al español (o castellano, pues).
La familia Sagrada, no. La Sagrada familia 😅😅. El Catalán es una lengua, no un dialecto....
The title is insulting to Catalan people.
Catalan is bridge between Occitan French and Spanish.
You used to say during the whole video "spanish" .
This is not right.
The correct word would be "castellano".
As a catalan this video triggers me so fking much xd
Occitan ['ok.si.tan], not Oktokon. 🤦🏻♂️😂
Sister of numidndal 54%@
And 46%berber and portuguese
Castilian has always been spoken in Catalonia. It was used as a lingua franca throughout the Iberian peninsula. Gascon is a lot more like Spanish because they both have a basque substratum
No hay ni una sola toponimia en ese idioma. Que lo supiesen hablar comerciantes y gente noble no significa que se hablara. Se podría decir lo mismo de Portugal ya que había escritores portugueses escribiendo en castellano en la edad media o de Rusia, donde la nobleza sabía francés.
@@neuzger5722 This is am imperialistic vision with no relation with reality (as usual in Spaniard Spain).
Interesting... thanks
Clearly you didn't watch the video, and are reacting to the title
idk
Magazine is a borrowing from French not from English
Idk
Catalonia is a NATION, as well Ukraine is a NATION!
Yes...
I la Vall d'Aran també es una nació independent? 😂😂😂
@@valenzupc ask to you Zpanish Masters? Or ask to Putin?😛
@@suevialania where are you from? I think yoy don't have enough information about this topic.
Too different to be considered as a dialect of Castillian or French
6:15 at least in mexican spanish that's quite common, but it is seen as "vulgar", not respectful or not correct to adress to other people
2:12 why is New Mexico highlighted in yellow here lol
What’s up with the salsa music? Spain and Latin America are not the same thing!
No it's not. Mistery solved.
Lol but that is just the hook 🪝 🤣
How does the story of Catalan compare to the story of Ukrainian?
Diria que exactament igual, però nosaltres no tenim un estat propi amb el qual puguem posar la nostra llengua com a llengua d'aprenentatge obligat a Catalunya, País Valencià i les Illes Balears.
During the Soviet era, with the imposition of the Russian language and culture, I think the circumstances were similar to the Catalan 18th century (first years of the Castilian occupation of Catalonia) but now, after 310 years of the Spanish invasion it is much worse!
@@pitrris Catalunya ha segut un país independent. És un fet històric innegable i inapel·lable.
Que ens digues que hem d'acceptar la mort de la nostra llengua perquè "és lo que n'hi ha" i que després parles "andalús" és força trist i contradictori.
Jo sempre respectaré qualsevol manera de parlar una llengua (que m'ho diguen a mi, que soc valencià i els catalans de Girona se'n riuen de nosaltres, occidentals!).
I d'altra banda, que generalitzes i condemnes uns fets que van succeir fa un grapat d'anys no és adequat. I puc assegurar-te que en la meua experiència, ací, els andalusos són molt orgullosos de la seua parla i de les seues costums i la seua musiqueta, però no els tremola la mà per a cagar-se en la nostra cultura sencera.
I les víctimes sou vosaltres...
old spanish
Catalan does have nasal phonemes
recuerde que el español no existe, es el castellano.
No.
Did you watch the video?
Everybody outside Catalonia knows that it is a primitive dialect, but catalonians are happy with their beliefs, so live and let live. Spanish , Engish and Chinese will be kings for many decades or centuries.
Catalan and Spanish are dialects of Vulgar Latin
You say something stupid. There are no "primitive dialects nor primitive languages".
As a matter of fact your comment shows that you dont know what a dialect is
Catalan is a beautiful LANGUAGE with its own literature going backwards unil Ramon Llul.
Catalan is so important as Asturian, but the Spanish centralism and linguistic imposition want to rub out all the languages that developed in the different areas, as the fucking orders of Charles III prohibited our languages in America.
Visca Catalunya lliure fora de la meuca Espanya!!!!
@JohnDove-d8d : th-cam.com/video/spoGuUaGoTM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7klBWZqmrgyLX3iP
@JohnDove-d8d th-cam.com/video/UVFDDA5XQ9I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=twC1_TRzDFMI_gy7
@JohnDove-d8d th-cam.com/video/5qTWr8tMqt8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t_YJD_QvNdfJY-J0