I think it’s less that they found people who wanted to specifically do that, then people are way more susceptible to their environment in terms of morals and acceptability than we think
@@basma.x.6656 that, and also a form of "grooming" (in the general sense of gradually exposing people to something so they don't see it as that odd enough to object to at any given point). During the grooming process there are "checks", when the teacher could be fired if they spoke up, etc. This isn't some technique, it's just what people do naturally when they are trying to get away with bad things.
This was a fucking rough one. Absolutely devastated. Unfortunately, I think this truly incredible amount of pain has to be known. This can NEVER happen again.
In the early days of this school, sexuality in general was in the process of moving into being studied medically and away from being considered a legal and moral issue. Everything that had been considered immoral was being questioned in a new way. Even when laws remained they were often low priority. Laws against prostitution were relaxed as a way to address the transmission of disease. There were pedophile organizations operating in public that had newsletters, people weren't afraid of putting their information on their mailing lists. And you are correct, Paragraph 175 only referred to male homosexuals.
That's because they['they' being "learned" males of the time] didn't believe women had sex drives. The Nazi's, for instance, kept track of the male homosexuals they killed, but not the lesbians. Though they undoubtedly killed many, lesbians would be among the women they killed listed as 'asocial' and 'too liberal' as reason why.
Lots of people have heard nightgrunts and night-crying. And its to OUR shame we didnt kick down doors. I'll never square how humans wont allow an animal to publically suffer, but wont stir stumps to stop open secrets.
Unfortunately most people are unwilling to extend their empathy to many others - animals are essentially blank slates so it's easy to have empathy for them
@@sofieselene That may be part of it but I suspect another is a downside of the way human groups often work - like the way people can look at those within groups: being protective or hesitant to act if they're one of 'our own' or 'respectable'. Or just being afraid or hesitant to speak out, to stand out. There's a reason why there's very few whistleblowers and similar people who are willing / able to go against the grain.
"These friendly gestures were never carried out against the will of the students." ...the students who were complaining when they thought they'd be believed, and making reports about it? It wasn't against their will? When they kept trying to tell on you and get it to stop?
We're so lucky we weren't sent there. That's so traumatizing even hearing about that. 'The basic system is good... It's just some people who used this freedom to abuse others'. That shit is so gross. Idk know if I could've handle it if not for Rob's stupid jokes.
I think that the easiest way to explain the moral that can be drawn from this episode, if "moral" is the right word, is to say that predators don't care about what ideology informs the system. They care about how they can use the system to further their own goals, and while that may include using the language of the ideology and talking about how the ideology either affirms what they're doing or protects them because of their standing within that system, they seem very rarely to actually *believe* any part of the ideology that says that what they're doing is wrong.
What's weird is if you look up the Odenwaldschule, the CSA cases are pretty easy to find information about these days, but if you look up l'Ecole d'Humanité (the school Gaheeb started in Switzerland after fleeing the Nazis), there don't seem to be the same kind of abuse allegations? I wonder why the one school apparently had this going on (including while Gaheeb was in charge originally), but the other school didn't? (Since the abuse was going on even pre-Nazism, it can't be just because the Odenwaldschule existed under the Nazi regime and l'Ecole d'Humanité didn't.)
Maybe Switzerland was already more used to educational reform, so they were culturally better at identifying where it crossed the line into abusive bullshit, and had more of an infrastructure for or more practice at shutting it down early? IDK.
"relaxed encounters"... jeez louise. I just imagine stuff like that passing because people just find it too implausible that someone would be saying the quiet part quite so loud and assume that they must mean something else by it. The audacity is the disguise.
Oh man, Drug Wars was the best. Haven't thought about that in _years._ Also, Drunk Quest, iirc! You were trying to get your blood alcohol level to 1.0. Such good times.
I saw the title of this episode and started playing the chorus of Spinal Tap's "Hellhole" in my head but substituting "R--e School" instead. Don't ask me why.
Lesbianism was literally not considered a thing. Like even today people still look at poetry, and prose, and the lives of historic lesbians and just think "they were just really good friends!" Like I just saw a thing about a statue of two women scissoring and the blurb about it claimed it was one woman helping her friend stretch. So German law probably didn't take female homosexual relationships into account because they literally did not think it was A Thing.
Yeah, 10 grand in debt and also didn't complete my degree because I didn't want to go into 10-20 more. Plus, I made less as a rather skilled electronics technician than the high school dropouts working in the warehouse. And they got to drive a forklift. Yep, college will actually make you poorer in the US. And you won't get to drive a forklift.
Not Aramaic 🤭 my friends and I used the Aramaic alphabet as a code language in Elementary school to pass notes 😅 (yes we've like all been diagnosed as autistic or adhd since then LMAO)
also it is absolutely not true that lesbians were able to somehow glide under the radar. i mean even if that were true, imagine not even given the benefit of having any sexuality, no agency at all. that's like saying gay men haven't been victims of DV because they didn't have domestic male partners for the longest time! this episode has done a lot to tarnish robert's image for me
Paragraph 175 EXPLICITLY outlines MALE homosexuality... it wasnt directed at Lesbians. the oppression they faced was entirely different and honestly not nearly as violent or dangerous. nobody said Lesbians were never oppressed... but you are delusional if you think the oppression they faced was even remotely equivalent.
Tago-ray?? as an indian, and especially a bengali, hearing tagore's name beung ponounced as such is painful also he is the creator of india's national anthem (as well as bangladesh's), friend of yeats and recipient of a nobel prize. I think it is highly offensive to associate his name like this without any evidence. Joking about being a hack and fraud is one thing but one should really bear caution when talking insensitively about national icons. considering he didn't even bother to look up his name's pronunciation, i doubt he knows anything at all about him. How then is he able to make such a monstrous claim?????????????
Oh don't be so fucking precious. They mention him briefly and then go on to talk about Einstein. The fact that this is what you're more concerned about in a conversation about horrific acts of child abuse is shameful. You not only need thicker skin mate but you also need to consider your own values here. As fundamentally what led to this situation is the exact attitude you are professing here that individuals and organisations of cultural worth are above criticism. That the weight they carry to society allows them to do horrible things to people and not be treated like everyone else in those circumstances. Please look inwards.
I love how when he discussing someone on the left, he doesn’t acknowledge it. Waiting to find an episode where he acknowledges one of the bastards leans to the left
@@FiggFig what left? If you dig into even this podcast deep enough you'd know that a lot of monsters use whatever idea that serves them, as distorted and barebones as they need it to be.
Except Nicolae Ceausescu and Kim Jong Un are both on the ‘left’. Anyway, half of these ideological dictators/authoritarian figures barely believed what they were saying. Opportunists.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
I often feel uncomfortable hitting the "like" button on this channel
I listened to 27 minutes of this episode, got sad, took a nap, came back, replayed the episode, and was immediately sad again
Oh, no. I'm at the beginning. Maybe I should turn back lol
Happens a lot around here.
"Behind the funtimes" sounds like the perfect podcast to listen after this episode...
I’m amazed that they found so many teachers who were down for this. How did they know who was “safe” to recruit as teachers?
I think it’s less that they found people who wanted to specifically do that, then people are way more susceptible to their environment in terms of morals and acceptability than we think
Pedos find each other. Particularly because people who are disgusted by what they do get weeded out.
@@basma.x.6656 that, and also a form of "grooming" (in the general sense of gradually exposing people to something so they don't see it as that odd enough to object to at any given point). During the grooming process there are "checks", when the teacher could be fired if they spoke up, etc.
This isn't some technique, it's just what people do naturally when they are trying to get away with bad things.
When you get Germans talking about "the perfect human" you know it ain't gonna end well!
@@vgsadgirlif you’re american wind your head in, don’t pretend the MAGA crowd would make us look any bette.
Yikes!
i think it might be a good idea to tap out whenever you hear anyone talking about the perfect human tbh
@@shakesbits5220this is a good point.
@@ButchcavalierYes but it's always a good idea to stay extra vigilant when the Germans start talking shit again.
This was a fucking rough one. Absolutely devastated. Unfortunately, I think this truly incredible amount of pain has to be known. This can NEVER happen again.
In the early days of this school, sexuality in general was in the process of moving into being studied medically and away from being considered a legal and moral issue. Everything that had been considered immoral was being questioned in a new way. Even when laws remained they were often low priority. Laws against prostitution were relaxed as a way to address the transmission of disease. There were pedophile organizations operating in public that had newsletters, people weren't afraid of putting their information on their mailing lists.
And you are correct, Paragraph 175 only referred to male homosexuals.
That's because they['they' being "learned" males of the time] didn't believe women had sex drives. The Nazi's, for instance, kept track of the male homosexuals they killed, but not the lesbians. Though they undoubtedly killed many, lesbians would be among the women they killed listed as 'asocial' and 'too liberal' as reason why.
Lots of people have heard nightgrunts and night-crying.
And its to OUR shame we didnt kick down doors. I'll never square how humans wont allow an animal to publically suffer, but wont stir stumps to stop open secrets.
Unfortunately most people are unwilling to extend their empathy to many others - animals are essentially blank slates so it's easy to have empathy for them
@@sofieselene That may be part of it but I suspect another is a downside of the way human groups often work - like the way people can look at those within groups: being protective or hesitant to act if they're one of 'our own' or 'respectable'. Or just being afraid or hesitant to speak out, to stand out.
There's a reason why there's very few whistleblowers and similar people who are willing / able to go against the grain.
"These friendly gestures were never carried out against the will of the students."
...the students who were complaining when they thought they'd be believed, and making reports about it? It wasn't against their will? When they kept trying to tell on you and get it to stop?
We're so lucky we weren't sent there. That's so traumatizing even hearing about that. 'The basic system is good... It's just some people who used this freedom to abuse others'. That shit is so gross. Idk know if I could've handle it if not for Rob's stupid jokes.
I think that the easiest way to explain the moral that can be drawn from this episode, if "moral" is the right word, is to say that predators don't care about what ideology informs the system. They care about how they can use the system to further their own goals, and while that may include using the language of the ideology and talking about how the ideology either affirms what they're doing or protects them because of their standing within that system, they seem very rarely to actually *believe* any part of the ideology that says that what they're doing is wrong.
Behind the Fun Times would be a great name for a FNaF: Sister Location video essay lmao
What's weird is if you look up the Odenwaldschule, the CSA cases are pretty easy to find information about these days, but if you look up l'Ecole d'Humanité (the school Gaheeb started in Switzerland after fleeing the Nazis), there don't seem to be the same kind of abuse allegations? I wonder why the one school apparently had this going on (including while Gaheeb was in charge originally), but the other school didn't?
(Since the abuse was going on even pre-Nazism, it can't be just because the Odenwaldschule existed under the Nazi regime and l'Ecole d'Humanité didn't.)
Maybe Switzerland was already more used to educational reform, so they were culturally better at identifying where it crossed the line into abusive bullshit, and had more of an infrastructure for or more practice at shutting it down early? IDK.
Maybe they have just been better at covering it up? Or anyone who could come forward is either dead or unwilling to?
"relaxed encounters"... jeez louise.
I just imagine stuff like that passing because people just find it too implausible that someone would be saying the quiet part quite so loud and assume that they must mean something else by it. The audacity is the disguise.
In the US you have to go to a Christian school to get this.
It's used all the time, like "officer involved shooting," and "humanitarian pause."
It's like how corporations spew word salad.
Oh man, Drug Wars was the best. Haven't thought about that in _years._ Also, Drunk Quest, iirc! You were trying to get your blood alcohol level to 1.0. Such good times.
Welp. That’s an episode title.
They should really do an ep on Helmut Kentler, very similar story but of an educational psychologist rather than an educationalist.
God I want to drink a potato and forget this episode. Thanks.
I tried to go more than 30 minutes, but this was brutal. 😢
This is one of those episodes where I have to pause and leave the room every 90 seconds, good lord
Dude!! That was one of the more awkward ones.
I saw the title of this episode and started playing the chorus of Spinal Tap's "Hellhole" in my head but substituting "R--e School" instead. Don't ask me why.
This back to back with the foster programme makes me extremely wary of anyone claiming to be "progressive" in education
Must be about SERE School, I went to SERE, this might be ... much more depressing.
Lesbianism was literally not considered a thing. Like even today people still look at poetry, and prose, and the lives of historic lesbians and just think "they were just really good friends!" Like I just saw a thing about a statue of two women scissoring and the blurb about it claimed it was one woman helping her friend stretch. So German law probably didn't take female homosexual relationships into account because they literally did not think it was A Thing.
Yeah, 10 grand in debt and also didn't complete my degree because I didn't want to go into 10-20 more. Plus, I made less as a rather skilled electronics technician than the high school dropouts working in the warehouse. And they got to drive a forklift. Yep, college will actually make you poorer in the US. And you won't get to drive a forklift.
Ten grand is a fantastically small amount of money. A wealthy person could spend that at dinner.
"He made himself a porn calendar of his students." oh wow
At fuck school, consent is like algebra. Sometimes, no means yes
Dang…this took a turn 😖
Not Aramaic 🤭 my friends and I used the Aramaic alphabet as a code language in Elementary school to pass notes 😅 (yes we've like all been diagnosed as autistic or adhd since then LMAO)
I went to a school that also fot the title. Can't say I was a fan.
I thought this was "Behind the Bleachers"
Love from a Wendgioon and Vaush fan!
Nobody cares, dude.
@@thatcanuck5670 Just supporting my favorite youtubers my commenting and helping with algorithm
oh my god shut up
@@thatcanuck5670 Ahhh a couplr of fellow Vaushites
1:16:45
Plus ultra?
w(°ｏ°)w...this was pre-COVID..huh
I just clicked on this... these are easily the worst thumbnails ever.
Yeah Schweitzer had a errrr kid problem himself
also it is absolutely not true that lesbians were able to somehow glide under the radar. i mean even if that were true, imagine not even given the benefit of having any sexuality, no agency at all. that's like saying gay men haven't been victims of DV because they didn't have domestic male partners for the longest time! this episode has done a lot to tarnish robert's image for me
Paragraph 175 EXPLICITLY outlines MALE homosexuality... it wasnt directed at Lesbians. the oppression they faced was entirely different and honestly not nearly as violent or dangerous.
nobody said Lesbians were never oppressed... but you are delusional if you think the oppression they faced was even remotely equivalent.
Pretty sure Einstein was known to prefer much younger girls
Did he create a school in order to rape them?
That's not true .... they had to be relatives too.
Tago-ray?? as an indian, and especially a bengali, hearing tagore's name beung ponounced as such is painful also he is the creator of india's national anthem (as well as bangladesh's), friend of yeats and recipient of a nobel prize. I think it is highly offensive to associate his name like this without any evidence. Joking about being a hack and fraud is one thing but one should really bear caution when talking insensitively about national icons. considering he didn't even bother to look up his name's pronunciation, i doubt he knows anything at all about him. How then is he able to make such a monstrous claim?????????????
Oh don't be so fucking precious. They mention him briefly and then go on to talk about Einstein. The fact that this is what you're more concerned about in a conversation about horrific acts of child abuse is shameful. You not only need thicker skin mate but you also need to consider your own values here. As fundamentally what led to this situation is the exact attitude you are professing here that individuals and organisations of cultural worth are above criticism. That the weight they carry to society allows them to do horrible things to people and not be treated like everyone else in those circumstances. Please look inwards.
I love how when he discussing someone on the left, he doesn’t acknowledge it. Waiting to find an episode where he acknowledges one of the bastards leans to the left
56:25
Wouldn’t be the first or last time the left turned a blind eye to this kind of thing
@@FiggFig what left? If you dig into even this podcast deep enough you'd know that a lot of monsters use whatever idea that serves them, as distorted and barebones as they need it to be.
@@mikeitkulof No you're right, not your left.
Except Nicolae Ceausescu and Kim Jong Un are both on the ‘left’.
Anyway, half of these ideological dictators/authoritarian figures barely believed what they were saying. Opportunists.
@@FiggFig Didn’t know Republicans were on the left