@@hudsonball4702 I don't believe that's correct. Having reviewed the battle, there doesn't appear to be any scene where this is visible and, more importantly, the nacelle phasers were only present on physical models of the Galaxy-class and not on the CGI ones. This is relevant because the battle of Chin'toka was done in CGI.
@@Sendit359 You're correct, Chin'toka was all CGI (you can tell from how some of the ship models still have odd proportions, especially from certain angles), and it has been confirmed that the prominent Galaxy-class at that battle is the Galaxy herself. We see clearly, as the fleet arrives, that she does not have nacelle phasers. However, we don't get a super clear look at her nacelles in the Battle of Cardassia later on (she was also confirmed to be there), and considering how beat up she got at Chin'toka, it isn't unreasonable to think that she would've been given an upgrade when they were fixing her up. Even if the nacelle phasers still wouldn't have been on her model lol.
@@Sendit359 All Galaxy class vessels got a Dominion War upgrade to improve their weapons, shields, and hull. Starfleet didn't want a repeat of what happened with the Odyssey when it when up against a few Jem'Hadar Fighters. The Galaxy herself was no exception
😲Gosh Admiral.. Thank you for showing the Battlegroup Omega.. that we never got to see in that movie. wow.. I only saw the names not the ships, so, this was a battle gosh.. but the Scimitar was a wicked.. ship, and the Remans.. Forgot who said, ''they were very successful in the fight with the Dominion..'' and with ships like this. crumbs.. Yes I would say the most used or longest used ship Excelsior or cause they are so many parts for it eeh. I know many say different things, but Here on TH-cam found the battle, and if was not for the Romulans helping, gosh, and show and found on 2 sites even Wikipedia.. ''The launcher appears on the 1701-E in Star Trek: Insurrection but is never fired. In Star Trek: Nemesis, nine of the Enterprise-E's quantum torpedoes disabled Scimitar's cloaking function.'' also, when Deanna was using telepathy to find them, when she did, Picard said ''Fire'' and we see clearly 9 quantums fired at the Scimitar and took out its cloak, and still had 70% of it's shields, Data said exhausted all our photon torpedoes, implying the quantums, '' found this on a site, and watched that battle part over and over.. but just saying.. I think the Scimitar would have used it's Thalaron in a last effort, even against the fleet.. Still great tactics Admiral and both ways, think 2nd way around eeh that was quick work.. and YES. gosh like to see how the Shrike would handle things lol. I would laugh every time it kaboomed but love to see it though.. Love the battle Admiral!😊🖖
This is the battle I was waiting for the first time I saw Nemesis. And then we didn't get it! What a tease! Later on I read that Rick Berman shaved a few million off the budget, so that the movie would come in under budget. That's a nice administrator thought, but if you have the budget, use it! Esp for this battle! It's wild that for all 4 TNG movies, they gave us just one Starfleet armada battle, when movies are supposed to operate at a larger and more spectacular scale.
They wanted to have more than one borg vessel in "First Contact", but budget constraints ment that they couldnt afford a longer battle scene. Same with Nemesis. Special effects were already at a record high for each movie.
JTFX is working on a version where the fleet figured out what Shinzon was planning and headed for the rift, so you've got the fleet plus the Enterprise E. Sneak peak here: th-cam.com/video/kpVQ3Sv7Au4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FsnIcGRCMxehKcK6 Though I thought the Valiant was a Defiant class which was commissioned to replace the original Valiant when it went MIA at the start of the war.
@Chicken-x6q6d Yep, I can't wait though I hope he's in good health. I really wouldn't mind if Paramount decided to "remaster" the Nemesis ship battle similar to how TOS was remastered with new shots and updated graphics. They just need an artist and director like JTFX at the helm and just use that work in the movie. (and before anyone says that would be an insult to the original creators, I disagree -- because it's efforts like that that stand on the shoulders of giants. Without the OGs, there wouldn't be the foundation and inspiration to do that work. Combine that love and passion with today's SFX technologies and you'll get a winner that pays homage to and actually revisits the original work.)
@@Cyke101 If it is well done and it fits the visual effects of the time, I dont really mind. The visual effects in the mid 90s/2000s Star Trek movies are of better quality than of the new Trek series. JTFX is a very good example. He makes it tastefull. The issue is: Money. Its a business case: Is the investment into new visual effects worth it? Will the fans buy the enhanced movies or make new subscriptions to the various streaming networks that have Star Trek on them? How many people will watch those movies again? I think the answer is pretty clear to me. Also, I think that they would need to add at least some voice lines, because what happened to the Fleet? Would be weird if we see the Scimitar taking out the whole Fleet and nobody of the bridge crew of the Enterprise says anything.
Of the ships defending sol, I'd expect to see the Anti Borg ship classes; Steamrunner, Norway, Saber, and Akira roll out, as they were made to fight. The Bozeman Soyuz refit, some anti Dominion Defiant class ships escorting An Akira and a Prometheus. A centaur, & maybe The usual Nebula. Some of these ships are made specifically to be fighting test beds for new weapons systems. - The Akira with its defiant escorts are a beastly little group. That's what was sent after the Prometheus. - On paper the 464 meter Akira heavy cruiser could match the fire power of the scimitar. 6 phaser arrays, 15 torpedo tubes, ablative armor, a flight deck fighter bay. This heavy hitter seems made to duke it out with the scimitar.
I know it was a bit coincidental that all those originally Prototype ships were involved, but I liked how it really allowed tou to picture what most of the group looked like from previous trek
Firing while cloaked was a big advantage for the reman ship. Without it, hard to hide from heavy hits. The said reman ship had an advanced cloak to avoid dominion detection measures. A defiant class or two would help here
That was awesome, I think that the reman cloak would have been difficult for the battle group to overcome but they could have worked together targeting shield impacts like Picard did with the romulans. As for the most successful ship in starfleet history, I would give that to the Miranda class, they entered service around the same time as the constitution and they were still in service during first contact, sure we see them getting destroyed by the slightest hint of a spacial anomaly but they were reliable workhorses of the federation.
The USS Hood was commanded by the greatest starfleet captain of the 24th Century: Robert DeSoto. Songs are sung of his legendary career. All accomplished while commanding an old Excelsior Class, hauling his butt between starbases.
Some talk of Kirk and Sisko and some of Jellico. Of Archer and DeSoto and such great names as those. But of all the galaxy’s brave heroes, there's none that can compare. With a tow, row, row, row, row, row, to Starfleet’s best masters.
In a lot of games i go for the weakest of the group first. Logic being that typically (most of the time I'd say) you can quickly dispatch them and remove their dps from the engagement. But if you go for the strongest one first it usually takes a while and in the meantime everyone else is bludgeoning you
You're forgetting the purpose of the Scimitar wasn't to engage other ships, they only attacked the Enterprise for Picard, they would never have engaged the fleet. And space is vast he would have no problem going around them. If he did engage them they would have detected the tachyon grid in advance before running into it, once detecting the grid he would look at the ship formation then pick an outlier and alpha strike them from cloak likely killing or disabling them outright. Then he would retreat and do it again, picking off the easiest to open a hole in the grid, then he would skip past them and head to earth. Even if the Ent-E had reached the fleet nothing would have changed on that. The Scimitar is just to powerful to stop in a standard engagement, it is like a cloaked borg cube. Only way to defeat it is to get rid of the cloak and Shinzon is just not stupid enough to walk into that trap. Keep in mind I'm talking about him as he normally is not like where he was compromised in the movie emotionally and physically. I left the telepathy out cause it was just a lame way to defeat the cloak and if we are assuming they got to the battle group then that had not happened. That being said when the Scimitar is uncloaked it can be overwhelmed by a task force, we saw how badly the E managed to hurt it with 1 good salvo, Its maybe like 2-5 sov's in strength. So a decent force would take it out with similar losses to a borg cube. The reason you target weakest first is so they contribute next to nothing in the battle, if you start with strongest they contribute that whole time.
Sorry i would say that half the Omega fleet would have been different designs as they were in 2379. And the Galaxy-class would certainly have been a massively upgrade version
The one thing this simulation doesn't take into account is that the Scimitar wouldn't have been at full strength it would have just engaged three very powerful ships and would probably be at least at 50% shields with at least minor hull damage.
Yeah by the end of the battle with the Enterprise and the two Romulan ships the Scimitar's shields were at least down to 70% and it's cloak was damaged.
@@177SCmaro Yeah and this pretty much implies that the Scimitar likely wouldn't have been able to take on the Enterprise and battle fleet Omega at the same time hence why it tried to stop the Enterprise and Picard from reaching it.
It might feel more appropriate to think of older ship classes as inferior, but most older ships could simply receive retrofits to maintain near or total parity with ships that are decades or even a century newer. It’s more a matter of aesthetics.
Scenario 1 is Scimitar has damage from the first battle then goes down fighting. Scenario 2 Scimitar effects repairs destroys both intrepids as a statement, cloaks and leaves the fleet dead in the water with a cryptic message of "better to be my friend than my enemy..."
I always seen it as the USS Galaxy being similar to ocean line Olympic class, it’s line is famous/infamous for its class sinking but the name sake of the class had a long and was known as a reliable ship
That was Seriously Amazing seeing Battle Group Omega going against the Scimitar the TH-cam channel JTVFX will be doing this battle aswell next year I think
I believe this would have been a galaxy wing left over from the war. Meaning they all would have been heavily upgraded. You're right about the cloak. Starfleet Intelligence would have known about it. If Earth was threatened, they would have sent out a memo on how to bypass it.
only for the subspace communication satellites in the region to be non operational thanks to a planned maintenance cycle that wont be finished till tuesday...
@@WUZLE B5 ships often compensate for a lack of shielding by using gross amounts of armor and are generally over gunned. This works alright when fighting others in their classes. I have to agree though that a lack of energy based shielding does put them at a distinct disadvantage. I'm still curious to see how a Sharlin would fare against Star Trek ships though.
It’s been a long time since I read it, but I believe beta canon said that the USS Galaxy was held back near the Sol system to test new systems and train cadets…at least until the Dominion War. By then, she was about 15 years old with barely a scratch on her.
The Galaxy class was designed to last 100 years. Why would you be surprised it was still around in Nemesis. What's stupid is how all the Galaxy class ships were gone in the trash picard series.
Because the Galaxy class was made during a time of extended peace. By the time of Picard, the Federation had been challenged by the Borg, Dominion, and other powers. These enemies exploited various weaknesses of the Galaxy. The Federation also changed its focus from exploration to defense. They built fewer all purpose ships and more specialized ships. The Galaxy style was ultimately reimagined as the Ross class. Expanding on the design strengths and shoring up its weaknesses
Hi Retro badger. Not sure if you’ve done this battle but could you pitch the scimitar against a Jem’hadar battle cruiser/dreadnaught the big ass jem’hadar ship! That would be an epic battle!
Question, just found your channel a week or so ago. I have seen cross battles from other SciFi series. Have you put an Andromeda war ship against Star Trek ships? I think that would be interesting especially with it's Novabombs.
Well you have to remember the Scimitar wasn't built to the standards of Romulan Warships she was a Reman Warship and she was armed with: 52 Disruptor Banks 27 Photon Torpedo Bays Primary and Secondary Shields And Geordi stated that the Scimitar had the perfect cloaking device that made her nearly hard to detect accept knowing where she was due to shield impacts and remember what Picard said when they first saw the Scimitar: Captain Jean-Luc Picard:She's a Predator
I honestly think the Valiant would be a Defiant class. Seems unlikely they would replace the Defiant class Valiant with an Intrepid class Valiant. As for the Galaxy. I strongly suspect she had Dominion War upgrades, just no Quantums. We saw her dish out some serious firepower at Chin'Toka.
@@Gentleman...Driver Nova class being a science ship would have pretty good sensors and a decent chance of detecting cloaked ships within useful combat range. That's how I always thought of it.
The Renaissance looks like an Ambassador had a baby with Ent E/Nova prototype. As for the Uss Hood, it was displayed many times on screen as not being a Type 2 Excelsior. It was an old Type 1.
The A&B probably couldn't damage the Scimitar unless it's shields were down. The C would be worth shooting at, maybe. The only ones that really matter though are the D (maybe) and the E and F. To be extra cruel you could throw in the NX-01 (which probably couldn't damage the Scimitar even if they turned off everything and just sat there. The Nil would be basically the same as the A..
Each ship represents a platform doing dmg to you. By eliminating those easiest to eliminate early you reduce the dmg the enemy fleet can inflict. Targeting the weakest is a good strategy in an attrition fight.
I think the battle would balance on a knife's edge, as to which side wins. Yeah the Scimitar is a beast that can wipe the floor with just about anything, but that isn't the same thing as being completely invulnerable. And as Picard noted, Shinzon was brash, arrogant and prone to underestimating his opponents. Fighting against an admiral with a cooler head, and the experience in using Task Force Omega to it's full advantage, the Scimitar could easily find itself in deep trouble before Shinzon could realize it.
I love your starship battles. I have a request. I've noticed many of the participating starships show the outlines for lifeboats. But do these actually work? So, at the end of a losing battle, it would be really cool to take to the lifeboats and abandon ship (b4 it blows up).
I think main reason we didn’t get to see the battle group in the film was down to the budget of the film. The original script did have the battle group engaging the Scimitar but had to be rewritten because of the lack of funds for the special effects. Also the Scimitars cloak doesn’t give off tachyons so the net wouldn’t be effective in detecting it.
The USS Aeries was the ship that Riker was offered command of in TNG. I think that is why they included the Aeries because Riker was going to take command of the Titan at the end of the movie
I think the biggest problem with Bridge Commander is that ships can't target multiple targets that the same time. I guess it was a limitation of the game and engine at the time. I really wish they would remake the game. I also like how in TNG they used TOS era ships. Each starship represents a massive investment in resources, and it would make sense that ships that still worked would still be in service. Even during the Dominion War, wars are won by logistics, and old ships can still fill support roles just fine.
To be fair. I think Starfleet would have had refit/upgraded dominion war spec ships. It was “battle group omega”. So they were battle ready ships posted near the romulan neutral zone.
I always felt the Scimitar was way overpowered as a Romulan ship. The only way I could get around it in my head cannon, was to believe the thalaron core supercharged the ship, allowing it to power a perfect cloak and a fleets worth of weapons. As for this, I think you could simply say a boarding party destroyed the cloak in a desperate attempt to save Enterprise
The Miranda class is certainly the longest serving starship alongside the Oberth class. They predate the Excelsior and are still in service until the late 24th century.
Seems like it's pretty much always better to go for the weakest ships first; you can spend a bunch of time burning down a tough ship that's heavily armed while everyone shoots at you, or you can snip away the weak links quickly and drastically reduce the firepower available to the enemy overall.
I don't know about Bridge Commander but in Homeworld, you usually want to go after the weakest ships first in most situations. Also kind of depends on hull strength and firepower but usually it's better to get the easy kills first. No idea if that's best in Bridge Commander. Or Sun Tsu for that matter.
6:05 According to the "Star Trek: Starship Creator" video game the USS Galaxy had some of the finest Starfleet officers who made the EPS conduits 15% more efficient before being transferred to the USS Enterprise-D (presumably to oversee a similar improvement). 8:55 Earth would have had planetary phasers or Verteron Array.
Battlefleet Omega would have been primarily used to slow the Scimitar down so that a more cohesive and larger force can gather around Earth. They'd probably deploy the same technique as the USS Sutherland did, working together, forcing Shinzon to engage. By the time the battlegroup is routed and retreats, the Scimitar will be quite damaged and Earth will have its defense fleet ready. Shinzon begrudgingly has to retreat or if he's still dying he'll throw himself at Earth, trying to run the blockade and get a shot with the Thalaron weapon off.
Galaxy was refitted. We actually see her in DS9 during one of the battles. Also, if Omega was defeated and with the threat the Scimitar known, Starfleet would have certainly amassed a larger fleet to engage her far from Earth. And, considering the Dominion War had only recently ended, Starfleet would still have many combat focused vessels to send at her where she would almost certainly be destroyed.
Looks to me that whoever came up with the names of the Omega Task Force fleet was just grabbing whatever names he could, without caring too much about it. I find it difficult to believe even Starfleet would put three prototype vessels in the same task force like that.
the other thing to consider is that the scimitar would have been damaged from fighting the Enterprise and Donatra's ships, so probably even less of a chance vs the task force
Surely the best tactic is to take out the weakest ship first then work your way up, because you can take them out quicker but if you go for the strongest ship first the amount of time it takes then all those weaker ships can still rain down the same phasers and torpedoes on you
Considering how close Shinzon was to dying I don’t think we would have lasted long enough to command the Scimitar in that battle. It’s Shinzon’s command ability to wield the Scimitar that would have made the difference
But what if Data had realized sooner the tactical risk of traversing the Bassen Rift, circumvented it, and either the Enterprise would reach the battle group or send a long range distress call so Starfleet could intercept. I would also speculate that in this scenario, the 2 Valdore would have escorted the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone and possibly join the battle group. Now that would have been a real challenge
Captain styles was the best captain with his stick to hit Kirk with.oh yeah and that captain of the oberth class orbiting genesis planet he was awesome.
After the dominion war more upgraded ships would be a given. Half the fleet would have quantums and at least the galaxy with more phasers. The upgraded excelsiors (Lakota) had quantum
I think at the very least the battle group would have done serious damage to it even if they were destroyed, and it would already have damage from fighting the enterprise and romulans. I do think tat was the point of its design though, with so many weapons it was intended to be able to repel a running firefight all the way to its target plus the time it took to deploy the primary weapon. It was designed to take a beating while it got off its main shot. But it's a long way to earth, starfleet and allies would have mobilised and taken it out
I wouldn't seeing the Enterprise-A vs. Kronos 1 and General Chang's bird of prey. I think Kirk choosing to surrender wasn't expected and the conspirators were hoping for Kirk to attack and start a war with Klingons as Kronos 1 managed to recover after the 2 torpedoes and the Bird of Prey would decloak to aid Kronos 1. Could the Enterprise win over 2 warships?
you know why is it that despite the way it was built, they dont use way more defiants, of which you would think starfleet would have like a frigate and a light cruiser verison to explain all the size discrepancies, just like they did with the bird of prey in SFC, as the whole point was maxium firepower in a small package, and it was built to deal with monsters like the scimitar like 13 ben siskos, 4 sovereigns and two galaxies providing fire support with the anti matter device blinding targeting, as we saw what one sovereign could do with two backup ships, it pretty much fought the thing to a standstill heck maybe a more fair fight for Omega here would be have the Scimitar pre damaged, like what if they just left the enterprise E to drift in space and went on their merry way
Retro badger, do you believe that the galaxy class was a bad design overall? Even though I’m a huge Galaxy class fan myself I noticed that Starfleet never truly made a galaxy class 2.0 type ship. I feel like the galaxy class X class of ships or more “what if” than anything else
The Galaxy class were made to allow families to live on board and, I think, to project Starfleet and the Federation as a softer, more diplomatic power. With the threat of the Borg (followed by the Dominion) the risk to civilians permanently living on Starfleet's was considered too great and, without them, they didn't need ships with that extra space or a whole bunch of roles and functions that would have existed to support and provide services to those civilians. It had also become clear that, like the Klingons had found with some of their models of ships, the neck of Galaxy-Class starships was a weak point. While you could improve the armour and shielding, that's only a sticking plaster and doesn't really stop it being the Achilles ball of the class. Thus partly why they moved towards designs like the Intrepid and the Sovereign, in addition to them providing a smaller target when head-on.
good fight. killing the weak first is always the best plan. eliminating the weakest ship first is one less shooting at you. i know, its pretty evil to prey first upon the weak. get a tape on goatee and pretend you are mirror retrobadger.
I think the battle with the Enterprise-E and the two warbirds would have weakened the Scimitar enough that Task Force Omega could have been able to defeat her. The battle as presented here is optimal for the Scimitar, with the exception of the lack of cloaking device. A damaged Scimitar would have had a more difficult time. Is there any way to create a two-stage battle in Bridge-Commander, where you can fight at one location, then warp to another and engage with a second battle group? If so, that might present a more accurate scenario.
The Galaxy WAS Dominion war refitted. We even see her in the First battle of Chin'toka. she gets hit pretty badly, but you can tell she was refit.
How can you tell?
@@Sendit359 It's a brief glimpse given the angle, but you can barely make out the phaser stipes on top of the nacelles.
@@hudsonball4702 I don't believe that's correct. Having reviewed the battle, there doesn't appear to be any scene where this is visible and, more importantly, the nacelle phasers were only present on physical models of the Galaxy-class and not on the CGI ones. This is relevant because the battle of Chin'toka was done in CGI.
@@Sendit359 You're correct, Chin'toka was all CGI (you can tell from how some of the ship models still have odd proportions, especially from certain angles), and it has been confirmed that the prominent Galaxy-class at that battle is the Galaxy herself. We see clearly, as the fleet arrives, that she does not have nacelle phasers. However, we don't get a super clear look at her nacelles in the Battle of Cardassia later on (she was also confirmed to be there), and considering how beat up she got at Chin'toka, it isn't unreasonable to think that she would've been given an upgrade when they were fixing her up. Even if the nacelle phasers still wouldn't have been on her model lol.
@@Sendit359 All Galaxy class vessels got a Dominion War upgrade to improve their weapons, shields, and hull. Starfleet didn't want a repeat of what happened with the Odyssey when it when up against a few Jem'Hadar Fighters. The Galaxy herself was no exception
😲Gosh Admiral.. Thank you for showing the Battlegroup Omega.. that we never got to see in that movie. wow.. I only saw the names not the ships, so, this was a battle gosh.. but the Scimitar was a wicked.. ship, and the Remans.. Forgot who said, ''they were very successful in the fight with the Dominion..'' and with ships like this. crumbs.. Yes I would say the most used or longest used ship Excelsior or cause they are so many parts for it eeh. I know many say different things, but Here on TH-cam found the battle, and if was not for the Romulans helping, gosh, and show and found on 2 sites even Wikipedia.. ''The launcher appears on the 1701-E in Star Trek: Insurrection but is never fired. In Star Trek: Nemesis, nine of the Enterprise-E's quantum torpedoes disabled Scimitar's cloaking function.'' also, when Deanna was using telepathy to find them, when she did, Picard said ''Fire'' and we see clearly 9 quantums fired at the Scimitar and took out its cloak, and still had 70% of it's shields, Data said exhausted all our photon torpedoes, implying the quantums, '' found this on a site, and watched that battle part over and over.. but just saying.. I think the Scimitar would have used it's Thalaron in a last effort, even against the fleet.. Still great tactics Admiral and both ways, think 2nd way around eeh that was quick work.. and YES. gosh like to see how the Shrike would handle things lol. I would laugh every time it kaboomed but love to see it though.. Love the battle Admiral!😊🖖
if not a tachyon grid, battle group omega might have used antiproton beams, as Sisko advised the Cardassians to do when the Maquis stole the Defiant
This is the battle I was waiting for the first time I saw Nemesis. And then we didn't get it! What a tease!
Later on I read that Rick Berman shaved a few million off the budget, so that the movie would come in under budget. That's a nice administrator thought, but if you have the budget, use it! Esp for this battle!
It's wild that for all 4 TNG movies, they gave us just one Starfleet armada battle, when movies are supposed to operate at a larger and more spectacular scale.
They wanted to have more than one borg vessel in "First Contact", but budget constraints ment that they couldnt afford a longer battle scene.
Same with Nemesis. Special effects were already at a record high for each movie.
JTFX is working on a version where the fleet figured out what Shinzon was planning and headed for the rift, so you've got the fleet plus the Enterprise E. Sneak peak here: th-cam.com/video/kpVQ3Sv7Au4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FsnIcGRCMxehKcK6
Though I thought the Valiant was a Defiant class which was commissioned to replace the original Valiant when it went MIA at the start of the war.
@Chicken-x6q6d Yep, I can't wait though I hope he's in good health.
I really wouldn't mind if Paramount decided to "remaster" the Nemesis ship battle similar to how TOS was remastered with new shots and updated graphics. They just need an artist and director like JTFX at the helm and just use that work in the movie.
(and before anyone says that would be an insult to the original creators, I disagree -- because it's efforts like that that stand on the shoulders of giants. Without the OGs, there wouldn't be the foundation and inspiration to do that work. Combine that love and passion with today's SFX technologies and you'll get a winner that pays homage to and actually revisits the original work.)
@@Cyke101 If it is well done and it fits the visual effects of the time, I dont really mind. The visual effects in the mid 90s/2000s Star Trek movies are of better quality than of the new Trek series.
JTFX is a very good example. He makes it tastefull.
The issue is: Money. Its a business case: Is the investment into new visual effects worth it? Will the fans buy the enhanced movies or make new subscriptions to the various streaming networks that have Star Trek on them? How many people will watch those movies again?
I think the answer is pretty clear to me.
Also, I think that they would need to add at least some voice lines, because what happened to the Fleet? Would be weird if we see the Scimitar taking out the whole Fleet and nobody of the bridge crew of the Enterprise says anything.
Love the videos keep them coming
That was a fun one 👍
Of the ships defending sol, I'd expect to see the Anti Borg ship classes; Steamrunner, Norway, Saber, and Akira roll out, as they were made to fight. The Bozeman Soyuz refit, some anti Dominion Defiant class ships escorting An Akira and a Prometheus. A centaur, & maybe The usual Nebula. Some of these ships are made specifically to be fighting test beds for new weapons systems.
- The Akira with its defiant escorts are a beastly little group. That's what was sent after the Prometheus.
- On paper the 464 meter Akira heavy cruiser could match the fire power of the scimitar. 6 phaser arrays, 15 torpedo tubes, ablative armor, a flight deck fighter bay. This heavy hitter seems made to duke it out with the scimitar.
I know it was a bit coincidental that all those originally Prototype ships were involved, but I liked how it really allowed tou to picture what most of the group looked like from previous trek
Firing while cloaked was a big advantage for the reman ship. Without it, hard to hide from heavy hits. The said reman ship had an advanced cloak to avoid dominion detection measures. A defiant class or two would help here
I like the full spread of torpedoes from the Galaxy. They either hit or miss by a country mile 😂🖖
Love the Excelsior class. Was originally introduced in ST3. So we're talking what...100 years worth of canon history.
That was awesome, I think that the reman cloak would have been difficult for the battle group to overcome but they could have worked together targeting shield impacts like Picard did with the romulans. As for the most successful ship in starfleet history, I would give that to the Miranda class, they entered service around the same time as the constitution and they were still in service during first contact, sure we see them getting destroyed by the slightest hint of a spacial anomaly but they were reliable workhorses of the federation.
The USS Hood was commanded by the greatest starfleet captain of the 24th Century: Robert DeSoto. Songs are sung of his legendary career. All accomplished while commanding an old Excelsior Class, hauling his butt between starbases.
But she was not a refit/type 2. Just a plain jane type 1
Some talk of Kirk and Sisko and some of Jellico. Of Archer and DeSoto and such great names as those. But of all the galaxy’s brave heroes, there's none that can compare. With a tow, row, row, row, row, row, to Starfleet’s best masters.
In a lot of games i go for the weakest of the group first. Logic being that typically (most of the time I'd say) you can quickly dispatch them and remove their dps from the engagement. But if you go for the strongest one first it usually takes a while and in the meantime everyone else is bludgeoning you
There's a little clip of Battle Group Omega by JTVFX.
Seen that video
Do you happen to have a link? I checked his channel and didn't see one
@@Sephiroth144 th-cam.com/video/kpVQ3Sv7Au4/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@Sephiroth144 It's called 'Wolf 359 and beyond'. There was a clip of battlegroup omega going up against the Scimitar.
@@elkapitan_warcriminalcoyote Ah, didn't think it was in one of the previews; thank you.
You're forgetting the purpose of the Scimitar wasn't to engage other ships, they only attacked the Enterprise for Picard, they would never have engaged the fleet. And space is vast he would have no problem going around them. If he did engage them they would have detected the tachyon grid in advance before running into it, once detecting the grid he would look at the ship formation then pick an outlier and alpha strike them from cloak likely killing or disabling them outright. Then he would retreat and do it again, picking off the easiest to open a hole in the grid, then he would skip past them and head to earth. Even if the Ent-E had reached the fleet nothing would have changed on that. The Scimitar is just to powerful to stop in a standard engagement, it is like a cloaked borg cube. Only way to defeat it is to get rid of the cloak and Shinzon is just not stupid enough to walk into that trap. Keep in mind I'm talking about him as he normally is not like where he was compromised in the movie emotionally and physically. I left the telepathy out cause it was just a lame way to defeat the cloak and if we are assuming they got to the battle group then that had not happened. That being said when the Scimitar is uncloaked it can be overwhelmed by a task force, we saw how badly the E managed to hurt it with 1 good salvo, Its maybe like 2-5 sov's in strength. So a decent force would take it out with similar losses to a borg cube. The reason you target weakest first is so they contribute next to nothing in the battle, if you start with strongest they contribute that whole time.
Sorry i would say that half the Omega fleet would have been different designs as they were in 2379.
And the Galaxy-class would certainly have been a massively upgrade version
"The Big Fleet in Action!" A very funny Time in Video been.🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖.
Ty for the video and LLAP!
The one thing this simulation doesn't take into account is that the Scimitar wouldn't have been at full strength it would have just engaged three very powerful ships and would probably be at least at 50% shields with at least minor hull damage.
Yeah by the end of the battle with the Enterprise and the two Romulan ships the Scimitar's shields were at least down to 70% and it's cloak was damaged.
@@177SCmaro Yeah and this pretty much implies that the Scimitar likely wouldn't have been able to take on the Enterprise and battle fleet Omega at the same time hence why it tried to stop the Enterprise and Picard from reaching it.
That's not even taking into account of Troi turning the ship into a makeshift parking bay for the Enterprise E
It might feel more appropriate to think of older ship classes as inferior, but most older ships could simply receive retrofits to maintain near or total parity with ships that are decades or even a century newer. It’s more a matter of aesthetics.
Seeing this makes me long for the BCMM project... Autotargeting support with RE's stability... and more...😂
I don't think the Hood was ever refit.
I've been waiting for This battle retro for s long time 😊👍
Scenario 1 is Scimitar has damage from the first battle then goes down fighting. Scenario 2 Scimitar effects repairs destroys both intrepids as a statement, cloaks and leaves the fleet dead in the water with a cryptic message of "better to be my friend than my enemy..."
I always seen it as the USS Galaxy being similar to ocean line Olympic class, it’s line is famous/infamous for its class sinking but the name sake of the class had a long and was known as a reliable ship
How about a rematch of the second battle, with the basis being the E did make it to the rendezvous point?
That was Seriously Amazing seeing Battle Group Omega going against the Scimitar the TH-cam channel JTVFX will be doing this battle aswell next year I think
The Scimitar would've had damage before taking on the fleet, way more than a downed cloak.
You never took that into account.
I'd love to see the shrike and scimitar go head to head because their both intimidating as hell and their both armed to the teeth
I believe this would have been a galaxy wing left over from the war. Meaning they all would have been heavily upgraded.
You're right about the cloak. Starfleet Intelligence would have known about it. If Earth was threatened, they would have sent out a memo on how to bypass it.
only for the subspace communication satellites in the region to be non operational thanks to a planned maintenance cycle that wont be finished till tuesday...
Could you Scimitar vs. A Minbari War Cruiser?
Without shields a Sharlin would be cut to pieces by the Scimitar. Most B5 ships are glass cannons by Star Trek standards.
@@WUZLE B5 ships often compensate for a lack of shielding by using gross amounts of armor and are generally over gunned. This works alright when fighting others in their classes. I have to agree though that a lack of energy based shielding does put them at a distinct disadvantage. I'm still curious to see how a Sharlin would fare against Star Trek ships though.
It’s been a long time since I read it, but I believe beta canon said that the USS Galaxy was held back near the Sol system to test new systems and train cadets…at least until the Dominion War. By then, she was about 15 years old with barely a scratch on her.
The Galaxy class was designed to last 100 years. Why would you be surprised it was still around in Nemesis. What's stupid is how all the Galaxy class ships were gone in the trash picard series.
Because the Galaxy class was made during a time of extended peace. By the time of Picard, the Federation had been challenged by the Borg, Dominion, and other powers. These enemies exploited various weaknesses of the Galaxy.
The Federation also changed its focus from exploration to defense. They built fewer all purpose ships and more specialized ships.
The Galaxy style was ultimately reimagined as the Ross class. Expanding on the design strengths and shoring up its weaknesses
@@chadbizeau5997 Oh yes the various weakness of the Galaxy class that led to not one being lost in the dominion war.
@@KerbalSpaceCommand Odyssey says what?
@@chadbizeau5997 Clearly you don't know what you're talking about, the Odyssey was destroyed before the outbreak of the war.
@@chadbizeau5997it was destroyed because of a Kamikaze run
I've been waiting for this battle
Hi Retro badger. Not sure if you’ve done this battle but could you pitch the scimitar against a Jem’hadar battle cruiser/dreadnaught the big ass jem’hadar ship! That would be an epic battle!
Question, just found your channel a week or so ago. I have seen cross battles from other SciFi series. Have you put an Andromeda war ship against Star Trek ships? I think that would be interesting especially with it's Novabombs.
Ah, Renaissance Class getting some love!!!😅
Just not in the spelling of its name ;)
@@stephandolby 😂
Well you have to remember the Scimitar wasn't built to the standards of Romulan Warships she was a Reman Warship and she was armed with:
52 Disruptor Banks
27 Photon Torpedo Bays
Primary and Secondary Shields
And Geordi stated that the Scimitar had the perfect cloaking device that made her nearly hard to detect accept knowing where she was due to shield impacts and remember what Picard said when they first saw the Scimitar:
Captain Jean-Luc Picard:She's a Predator
Afraid of a ship??? Don't go out at night, be afraid of your shadow and everything else, hermit Badger.... hhhmm nice ring
I honestly think the Valiant would be a Defiant class. Seems unlikely they would replace the Defiant class Valiant with an Intrepid class Valiant.
As for the Galaxy. I strongly suspect she had Dominion War upgrades, just no Quantums. We saw her dish out some serious firepower at Chin'Toka.
I think the same. Still unusual that they have a Nova class ship in a Battle group. But maybe they scrambled everything together.
The Defiant Valiant was already destroyed during the dominion war though
@@Gentleman...Driver Nova class being a science ship would have pretty good sensors and a decent chance of detecting cloaked ships within useful combat range. That's how I always thought of it.
@@Alyeska23 That makes sense! But on the other hand, Intrepid and Galaxy class have good sensors, too. At least I would imagine that.
@@Gentleman...Driver Agreed
The Renaissance looks like an Ambassador had a baby with Ent E/Nova prototype.
As for the Uss Hood, it was displayed many times on screen as not being a Type 2 Excelsior. It was an old Type 1.
All enterprises A-F vs Scimitar
The A&B probably couldn't damage the Scimitar unless it's shields were down. The C would be worth shooting at, maybe. The only ones that really matter though are the D (maybe) and the E and F. To be extra cruel you could throw in the NX-01 (which probably couldn't damage the Scimitar even if they turned off everything and just sat there. The Nil would be basically the same as the A..
@@jimmyjohnjames6397 nx-01 could ram the Scimitar to damage it.
@@jimmyjohnjames6397 throw in the TOS Enterprise and the Kelvin Enterprise for the heck of it.
Each ship represents a platform doing dmg to you. By eliminating those easiest to eliminate early you reduce the dmg the enemy fleet can inflict. Targeting the weakest is a good strategy in an attrition fight.
I think the battle would balance on a knife's edge, as to which side wins. Yeah the Scimitar is a beast that can wipe the floor with just about anything, but that isn't the same thing as being completely invulnerable. And as Picard noted, Shinzon was brash, arrogant and prone to underestimating his opponents. Fighting against an admiral with a cooler head, and the experience in using Task Force Omega to it's full advantage, the Scimitar could easily find itself in deep trouble before Shinzon could realize it.
I love your starship battles. I have a request. I've noticed many of the participating starships show the outlines for lifeboats. But do these actually work? So, at the end of a losing battle, it would be really cool to take to the lifeboats and abandon ship (b4 it blows up).
Thanks! I can certainly show that in a future battle. In kobayashikaru you can abandon ship 🖖
I think main reason we didn’t get to see the battle group in the film was down to the budget of the film. The original script did have the battle group engaging the Scimitar but had to be rewritten because of the lack of funds for the special effects.
Also the Scimitars cloak doesn’t give off tachyons so the net wouldn’t be effective in detecting it.
I often wondered what would have happened if either the Enterprise made it to the backup fleet or if they'd cross the border to assist the Enterprise.
The USS Aeries was the ship that Riker was offered command of in TNG. I think that is why they included the Aeries because Riker was going to take command of the Titan at the end of the movie
I think the biggest problem with Bridge Commander is that ships can't target multiple targets that the same time. I guess it was a limitation of the game and engine at the time. I really wish they would remake the game.
I also like how in TNG they used TOS era ships. Each starship represents a massive investment in resources, and it would make sense that ships that still worked would still be in service. Even during the Dominion War, wars are won by logistics, and old ships can still fill support roles just fine.
To be fair. I think Starfleet would have had refit/upgraded dominion war spec ships. It was “battle group omega”. So they were battle ready ships posted near the romulan neutral zone.
I always felt the Scimitar was way overpowered as a Romulan ship. The only way I could get around it in my head cannon, was to believe the thalaron core supercharged the ship, allowing it to power a perfect cloak and a fleets worth of weapons.
As for this, I think you could simply say a boarding party destroyed the cloak in a desperate attempt to save Enterprise
Great battle!!
Wounder is The Liberator from Blakes 7 could destroy the Scimitar ??
Failing that we might need Vger (:
Isn't that the Ambassador Variant shown in JTVFX's wolf 359?
Missed out on the what if scenario of the E actually reached the battlegroup and ends up being 8 SF ships plus the 2 warbirds taking on Shinzon.
Rikers Galaxy X would join in too...that would have been amazing
Let's see you do that with the E. Maybe the Valdore could have sacrifice themselves to let the Enterprise escape
The Miranda class is certainly the longest serving starship alongside the Oberth class. They predate the Excelsior and are still in service until the late 24th century.
Seems like it's pretty much always better to go for the weakest ships first; you can spend a bunch of time burning down a tough ship that's heavily armed while everyone shoots at you, or you can snip away the weak links quickly and drastically reduce the firepower available to the enemy overall.
I don't know about Bridge Commander but in Homeworld, you usually want to go after the weakest ships first in most situations. Also kind of depends on hull strength and firepower but usually it's better to get the easy kills first. No idea if that's best in Bridge Commander. Or Sun Tsu for that matter.
6:05 According to the "Star Trek: Starship Creator" video game the USS Galaxy had some of the finest Starfleet officers who made the EPS conduits 15% more efficient before being transferred to the USS Enterprise-D (presumably to oversee a similar improvement).
8:55 Earth would have had planetary phasers or Verteron Array.
Battlefleet Omega would have been primarily used to slow the Scimitar down so that a more cohesive and larger force can gather around Earth. They'd probably deploy the same technique as the USS Sutherland did, working together, forcing Shinzon to engage. By the time the battlegroup is routed and retreats, the Scimitar will be quite damaged and Earth will have its defense fleet ready. Shinzon begrudgingly has to retreat or if he's still dying he'll throw himself at Earth, trying to run the blockade and get a shot with the Thalaron weapon off.
Retro how about the schimitar against the capital ships of the Dominion.
The Dominion battle cruiser and battleship and the cardassian hutet?
Galaxy was refitted. We actually see her in DS9 during one of the battles. Also, if Omega was defeated and with the threat the Scimitar known, Starfleet would have certainly amassed a larger fleet to engage her far from Earth. And, considering the Dominion War had only recently ended, Starfleet would still have many combat focused vessels to send at her where she would almost certainly be destroyed.
The E’s warp core was damaged in Shinzon’s surprise attack. That would have seriously effected the outcome.
I think the E would have put a dent into the Scmitar's hull, shield and weapons in defeat. Would love to see a Scmitar versus E, them the fleet
Looks to me that whoever came up with the names of the Omega Task Force fleet was just grabbing whatever names he could, without caring too much about it. I find it difficult to believe even Starfleet would put three prototype vessels in the same task force like that.
the other thing to consider is that the scimitar would have been damaged from fighting the Enterprise and Donatra's ships, so probably even less of a chance vs the task force
Surely the best tactic is to take out the weakest ship first then work your way up, because you can take them out quicker but if you go for the strongest ship first the amount of time it takes then all those weaker ships can still rain down the same phasers and torpedoes on you
Considering how close Shinzon was to dying I don’t think we would have lasted long enough to command the Scimitar in that battle. It’s Shinzon’s command ability to wield the Scimitar that would have made the difference
Where can I get bridge commander, I used to own it years ago and this version looks amazing!
I feel like the Rennaisance is the Ambassador’s “partner” class? Like Constitution had Miranda, Galaxy had Nebula?
But what if Data had realized sooner the tactical risk of traversing the Bassen Rift, circumvented it, and either the Enterprise would reach the battle group or send a long range distress call so Starfleet could intercept.
I would also speculate that in this scenario, the 2 Valdore would have escorted the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone and possibly join the battle group.
Now that would have been a real challenge
Ok, odd request: Renaissance class vs Romulan D’deridex.
Captain styles was the best captain with his stick to hit Kirk with.oh yeah and that captain of the oberth class orbiting genesis planet he was awesome.
>USS Galaxy
Meanwhile: *using the Generations Enterprise D mod for that sweet 10x full torpedo spread
Also he needed Picard blood to live too that why
After the dominion war more upgraded ships would be a given. Half the fleet would have quantums and at least the galaxy with more phasers. The upgraded excelsiors (Lakota) had quantum
Focusing down the weaker ships first rapidly reduces the total incoming firepower.
Yeah but I bet the Valiant was again commanded by Red Squad...😅
Next battle should be an Ancients vs Wraith fleet battle
I think at the very least the battle group would have done serious damage to it even if they were destroyed, and it would already have damage from fighting the enterprise and romulans. I do think tat was the point of its design though, with so many weapons it was intended to be able to repel a running firefight all the way to its target plus the time it took to deploy the primary weapon. It was designed to take a beating while it got off its main shot. But it's a long way to earth, starfleet and allies would have mobilised and taken it out
They should've had an Excelsior parked in the background of Star Trek Discovery in the 32c.
I wouldn't seeing the Enterprise-A vs. Kronos 1 and General Chang's bird of prey. I think Kirk choosing to surrender wasn't expected and the conspirators were hoping for Kirk to attack and start a war with Klingons as Kronos 1 managed to recover after the 2 torpedoes and the Bird of Prey would decloak to aid Kronos 1. Could the Enterprise win over 2 warships?
you know why is it that despite the way it was built, they dont use way more defiants, of which you would think starfleet would have like a frigate and a light cruiser verison to explain all the size discrepancies, just like they did with the bird of prey in SFC, as the whole point was maxium firepower in a small package, and it was built to deal with monsters like the scimitar
like 13 ben siskos, 4 sovereigns and two galaxies providing fire support with the anti matter device blinding targeting, as we saw what one sovereign could do with two backup ships, it pretty much fought the thing to a standstill
heck maybe a more fair fight for Omega here would be have the Scimitar pre damaged, like what if they just left the enterprise E to drift in space and went on their merry way
I think the Valiant was another Defiant-class, like the one in DS9.
Retro badger, do you believe that the galaxy class was a bad design overall? Even though I’m a huge Galaxy class fan myself I noticed that Starfleet never truly made a galaxy class 2.0 type ship. I feel like the galaxy class X class of ships or more “what if” than anything else
The Galaxy class were made to allow families to live on board and, I think, to project Starfleet and the Federation as a softer, more diplomatic power. With the threat of the Borg (followed by the Dominion) the risk to civilians permanently living on Starfleet's was considered too great and, without them, they didn't need ships with that extra space or a whole bunch of roles and functions that would have existed to support and provide services to those civilians.
It had also become clear that, like the Klingons had found with some of their models of ships, the neck of Galaxy-Class starships was a weak point. While you could improve the armour and shielding, that's only a sticking plaster and doesn't really stop it being the Achilles ball of the class. Thus partly why they moved towards designs like the Intrepid and the Sovereign, in addition to them providing a smaller target when head-on.
JTFX he's working on a cgi annimation of the battle group omega idea and it's impressive the preivew he's shown
JTVFX is so talented! 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming When his first stuff came out i thought he should be working with Paramount on star trek
Scimitar would have been licking wounds from battling Enterprise and the Valdores. I think that needs to be factored in.
Strength in numbers
Re-do this battle with post-Dominion War ships and the Enterprise-E
Oh and that battlegroup in another COUGH universe...would have been doomed! Shinzon's pet ship could fire while cloaked no?
I am surprised you didn't say the MIRANDA CLASS.
Have you did the Scimitar versus the Borg?
good fight.
killing the weak first is always the best plan. eliminating the weakest ship first is one less shooting at you. i know, its pretty evil to prey first upon the weak. get a tape on goatee and pretend you are mirror retrobadger.
Borg Cube vs Scimitar
I think the battle with the Enterprise-E and the two warbirds would have weakened the Scimitar enough that Task Force Omega could have been able to defeat her. The battle as presented here is optimal for the Scimitar, with the exception of the lack of cloaking device. A damaged Scimitar would have had a more difficult time. Is there any way to create a two-stage battle in Bridge-Commander, where you can fight at one location, then warp to another and engage with a second battle group? If so, that might present a more accurate scenario.
It's standard Starfleet policy to only ever send a handful of old and undergunned ships to any and all crisis situations. What could go wrong? 😅
True, as evidenced by an Oberth being present at the battle of Procyon V.
@@dougsmith6262 I'd like to think that it was just bringing towels, water bottles, and healthy snacks for the fleet.
The fleet didn’t have to destroy it, just damage it. Like the British vs Graf Spee.
STBC needs a NX01 Dreadnought vs the Vulcan Fleet.
Shouldn't Scimitar start this battle damaged from battling the Enterprise and two Valdores?