Shivshankar Menon on changes in the perceptions of China and Pakistan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2020
- Shivshankar Menon, former NSA and ambassador of India to Israel and China, joins Harsh Pant, Professor of International Relations, King's College, London, in a conversation where he dives deep into the behind-the-scenes worlds of negotiation and confrontation, strategy and governance.
In this conversation, he talks about India-China relations, his tenure as an ambassador, and his career as a diplomat.
Catch him answer the most-asked questions about national & international relations.
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Very enlightening discussion! Mr. Menon is always amazing. He tells it as it is; he doesn't put false sentiment invoking rethorics like most of media. We can duplicate Chinese model to uplift our poor citizens. In 60's and 70's when China was going through famine, the world kicked them around. Many died, they raise above that, traded successfully with the world. In 2001, the Western world forced China to join WTO so they'll will be bound with certain trade guidelines and rules. They raised above trade constraints placed by WTO, and raised above that. Now, the White World tries to launch crusade against China for lifting itself from famine and poverty. India has the same terrorism issue like China but we echo and repeat White rhetoric. Sadly borders skirmishe are normal, we have border shootings with
Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Burma and of course with Pakistan. Atleast with China case, both side respect not to use guns. There was casualty last time because they were fighting on steep cliffs. Next time they should find a plane ground first before Arnab Goswami starts drumming for war. 😃
Jai Bharat!
Mr Menon is right about pursuing Indias interest, but he contradicts himself in so many areas. It is in Indias interests to absolutely contain China from gaining any ground in the subcontinent, because China uses economic tools to expand its terriotory, so its not just about Nepal can do what it wants, how are India bothered. Again, India csn be as dilomatic and "follow our interests" as we want, but China is st our doorstep, they HAVE interefered in Kashmir, and are surrounding India. I mean, can he not see this. This is not some theatre whrte India can sit back and watch West vs China play out, and we can clap our hands with glee. We have a rogue actor whose plan is to encircle and contain India. We may face a 2 front wat, what happens then. Do we deal alone? Diplomats are great, they are useless when the enemy is at the gates.
He is a Khangress man, what else to expect from them but kowtow to China!
Idiot menon goes on to praise himself and his government for 'bringing democracy' into Nepal.
Look what it did, Now Nepal has become anti India due to the Communists and if not managed properly would be very big threat to India.
India always had mistrusting relationships with past Nepali kings. King Birendra was going behind India and buying weapons from China. That has forced India to impose land blockade on landlocked country Nepal in 1989. That has further fueled anti India rethorics on Nepali public. Democratic Nepali was much easier for India to work with. But then when India imposed another land blockade on Nepal in 2015. That really anger the internet savvy new Nepali youths. That's the situation we're in. Recent days, Nepal has lodged complaints with United Nation on its land disputes with India. We are in similar situation with Bangladesh too. If we're so bitter with China or our neighbors, India should wage war. Hai Hind!
One our best, respect to Mr. Menon
@Joseph Stalin: Foreign policy
@Joseph Stalin: you seem to follow a mass murderer called Joseph Stalin. Seek help or you will soon end up in jail.
harsh pant and amb shiv shankar menon in same frame, ma 2 fav yay!
most of the video is on india - US relationship. for pakistan, china comments check from 51:00.
Menon comment that "Indians and Pakistanis know each other's bad thoughts too well" was good observation. Pakistan-India relationship is more emotional than rational. He puts the whole blame for emotionality on Pakistan and nothing on India. Well thats not surprising as he is Indian. Overall it was good discussion.
Me Menon is pillar in Indian foreign policy Loves his comments
Seemed very pissed at the Taiwan question. Goes to show how we should be thinking instead of emotionally motivated domestic political way we like to do things here.
These are the best words that I have heard till now on the subjects.
Shiv Shankar Menon clearly states - "human folly does occur, but that's not a rational basis for analysis" judging by the comment section, it's too nuanced for Pakistani audience.
@Geopolitics Today You are most welcome. Lol I guess!
Fascinating discussion.
Thanks for Uploading.
Most HONEST AUTHENTIC KNOWLEGEABLE HUMBLE MATURE - voice - in today word ......
Beautiful discussion!
One of the best interviews on China - but nothing on Pakistan, despite the heading. Perhaps a reflection of their importance today.
It is better to know your enemy than to pretend an enemy to be your friend, that way you will be better prepared otherwise you will be back stabbed.
Such an excellent discussion but in the end Mr Menon could pull himself together to say what's evident...the foreign services don't want to have an influx of skilled competitors...they will rather let the country suffer than to see competition within their ranks...and that too God forbid with a technocrat...
fantastic
Enjoyed fully. Very balanced, practical and without jingoism unlike many other foreign secretaries. I think present foreign Minister S. Jay Shankar is also an equally good diplomat and a man of humility but the present dispensation or rather their neo-nationalistic media has limited him in applying his knowledge, skill and experience in solving foreign policy issues at hand.
"For Pakistanis, they don't have any foreign policy. They have India policy and rest of their policies revolve around that policy"..... What a line sir
Absolutely wrong. For India Pakistan is the core thing there whole life goes around either it is foreign policy , politics, media. There is hardly any mention of India in Pakistan. But if you look at Indian politics it seems whole.world revolve around Pakistan.
@@meharshah7276 Pakistan is treated as enemy nation in India, and there are substantial logic behind it..... Pakistan attacked India deliberately 3 times, and there are continuous state sponsored terrorism from Pakistan...... So definitely, people will speak about it and a democratic country with 1.3 billion population where people have freedom of speech would always produce noisy stuff...As long as Pakistan remain a nuisance for India,things will remain as usual.....
Here I m talking about foreign policy.... Foreign policy is a tool which is used to further the overall interest of a nation..... I m a student of international relations and my observation validate above point that Pakistan's foreign policy is based on binary terms.... It's relationship with any Nation depends upon status of that nation's relation with India.....
And u don't have to convince me about how much India sells in Pakistan...... A country which lacks any identity and have only significant identity which is being anti-India makes things pretty clear.....
For India-->Pakistan is a nuisance but
For Pakistan-->India is part of its identity as it is left with no identity except Anti India..... So opposing and fighting India, and Islam against every other religion is the only loose glue which binds Pakistan...
I can still remember a book written by a Pakistani author who claimed that India brought 2010 floods in Pakistan...
You both are stupid. Dismissing your foe like nothing is what India's mistake always has been.
@@MHasnain2663 First of all, u need to understand what is being discussed here, then try to respond it..... Saying others stupid without having any idea about discussed topic shows ur mental ability...
Here, Foreign policy of India and Pakistan are compared..... It's not like I m saying Pakistan is nothing.....
This video is full of intellectual discourse and I was expecting viewers of this video would be little bit intelligent... I was wrong
@@firstsparkle5378 you dont become intellectual just by sitting in the company of one. You guys dont show any respect to your neighbors. And frankly its old and arrogant. And very triggering honestly.
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Great discussion. However, Mr Menon has an extremely neutral view of China's real interest, which is global hegemony and an expansion to all the uninhabited or lightly inhabited regions adjacent to Tibet, Russia, Japan and the South China Sea. He has a beautiful cartesian mind where all global relationships are rational (apart from Pakistan with India) and are cause/effect driven. Mr Menon didn't even mention that China's main interest in Pakistan is access to the Arabian Sea, thereby securing its energy needs. After all, what interest would China have in Pakistan - a country that produces virtually nothing and consumes only slightly more. Don't get me wrong I think he's a brilliant man.
Its only because Mr Menon is able to analyze things , keeping away his emotions and aspirations. That is what analysis is all about, as Mr Menon said, "We can't exclude anyone from the subcontinent. Arabian sea for oil is not a policy agenda at all for China. India also has that access despite all hostilities with Pakistan.
China has entirely different set of objectives in Pakistan. a) She has given very high interest loans to Pakistan, which is a lucrative investment. b) Pakistan is one of the leading buyer from Chinese military complex. c) Pakistan is a decent market of over 40 million middle class consumers to sell goods and services. d) Pakistan is the only gateway connecting Eastern China to the big markets of Middle East and Central Asia...that's why Chinese has invested so heavily in building roads and railways in Pakistan.
On top of all, keeping in view Chinese expansionist design... Pakistan is the strategic place to sandwich India. Whenever India will moves towards AksaiChin, she will have her back exposed to Pakistan.
Their quantum might be smaller , but there is nothing on Earth which India produces and exports and Pakistan doesn't. We cant wish away things, since we don't like them... thats what Mr Menon said in other words.
India is the fifth largest economy in the world and Pakistan is in grey list of FATF. During his stint in government , he tried his best to support China and Pakistan against India at the instance of Sonia Gandhi remote PM.
wonderful conversation .. Its pity that such content gets 150 likes and 7k views.. and oil ka ishqiya garbage goes viral..
The Congress's policy for 'containment' of China is acutely reminiscent of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's negotiating 'peace' with Hitler
Loved the interpretation of whats Pakistani foreign policy?
-They have no foreign policy but only India policy and everything around it!
‘Blind Men of Hindoostan’ led by the then PM P V Narasimha Rao & supported by MEA Mandarins like Shiv Shankar Menon gleefully embraced the abstraction of the LAC without even first delineating/demarcating it, which is precisely why China, from a legal standpoint, has emerged as the winner.
It is easy to condemn things in hindsight.Because negotiations resolve themselves on the basis of power.Military,economic and diplomatic. Just stating your position may not yield anything.And in no way has China has emerged as winner. It is a tug-of war on the border.
Because that's what the entire dispute is about! If it was such a cakewalk to delineate/demarcate the LAC, there wouldn't really be a need for the Peace and Tranquility agreement. The Chinese have always been reticent in confirming what their perceptions of the LAC are. Even the enlightened souls of a novel India have not managed to get those magical words out of the Chinese mouths.
Rishabh Dabral India wants to claim both Aksai Chin and Arunachal. China can only accept one, not both. China's claim on LAC is based on 1959 and it has been consistent.
@@nestser Laying claim to Aksai Chin and cartographically demarcating their perception of Aksai Chin are two different things. Furthermore, the Chinese claims are only as consistent as the course of the Yellow River. Should read Amb Shivshankar Menon's book to know more about how claims kept evolving over time. It was barely a month back that even the Bhutanese were left startled by a brand new claim on what they perceived as an undisputed territory.
As nations evolve, there's nothing wrong in a revisionist power changing claims. But, for god's sake, there're no browny points for merely 'claiming' to be consistent.
@@rishabhdabral375 Tell me what is the basis for India's claim on Aksai Chin. Is India assuming it should inherit whatever is left by the British?
If Nepal prospers from money and investment... From China why is india worried... 😟
After all everyone wants money
And if they don't, which as world-wide experience shows is more likely, Nepal has to hand over parts of its territory to China. For India, sharing open borders with Nepal, that's a cause for worry.
"For me, frankly, the Chinese are human." "Chinese are externally aggressive whenever they have internal tension."
Very interesting observations we need to ponder.
journalist in India are also doing the same as China
In its neighborhood, India has no friends, except for Bhutan (?) Since 2014 when Modi came to power, India has antagonized all its neighbors. May be India feels that it does not need any friends around. China is the only neighbor about the same size as India. Wuhan Spirit (for Peace & neutrality) signed between India & China. India also joined USA & Australia in a strategic partnership to contain China. Russia is also moving closer to China and away from India. Seems like India is always on the wrong side of history.
What Mr Menon said about Pakistan, explains it all... why we've not been ever able to resolve Pakistani issue. When the dispassionate genius of Menon can't understand that, who else will?
The problem in dealing with Pakistan is emotional on our part as well... and in terms of policy we have never been able to offer any alternate gains to them. Yes, Pakistan wants Kashmir, and we wont ever give them a inch. However, there should be some alternatives to compensate them. Give and take is all about name of the game. How naive it is to have no other offering to a country.
China didn't give us an inch of AksiChin back. Yet for two decades , it managed to keep India neutralized by alternative and lucrative offering. You cant expect a passive Pakistan, while having nothing to offer them in exchange of Kashmir.
Perhaps Mr Menon know this, but its would be such an infamous and demonizing idea to express in front of politicians.
Menon is talking to keep Indians happy and what they like to hear.China has less problem than India,Chinese economy is rebounding after shutdown with 3.6% in June.Maybe the only big 5 GDP country with a positive growth.
Yah! China has less problem, because there is no independent media which can cover those problems and criticise the govt, and democracies like India , US has all the problems because they are televised. Good joke my friend if you have no problems, then open up let everyone see what a paradise on earth CCP rule is.
@Vidya Sagar Rao Yes! Ring that bell all you want, But It will still fall short of coveing up an explosion. That's the difference between India and China. If you doubt that I can produce a list of journalists who are still criticising the Indian Govt. and you give a list of Chinese journalists who criticise their govt. on a daily basis?
@Vidya Sagar Rao As long as you talking about the anchors Frey d'souza's name comes to mind, but journalists do not only sit in tv channels, they also write articles in newspapers . Btw how are the Chinese journalists names coming? any progress?
@Vidya Sagar Rao Then please brother, don't compare them. You don't have to look much further, google what happens to dissidents in China.
@Vidya Sagar Rao You are lucky that you don't have to, here is a taste - m.timesofindia.com/world/china/why-is-china-silent-over-disappearances-of-covid-19-whistleblowers/articleshow/75248500.cms
THEY HAVE LOST IT!! HAHA
59:16
SOFT HINDUTVA DISPLAY !!! BAGHAL ME CHURI, MUN PE RAM RAM !!!
Thanks for such an astute observation. Just a point of advise, atleast pretend to be secular, before pointing the finger at others.
India crying all the time lol
ha ha the PAK PM waking up morning and tweeting about india daily and you are telling india crying? FATF FANTASTIC
India doesn't want to develop its economy because that will destroy the caste system and Hinduism. Modi is therefore concentrating on religion and not economy. He is trying to save HINDUISM. Frankly Hinduism may not survive if Indian Economy is developed, because in that case you have to treat all Indians as equal, which Hinduism does not allow. India doesn't wants it's neighbours to develop, no trade therefore within the sub-continent, organizations like SAARC should not be allowed to grow. Growth within South Asia will destroy the caste system, which India does not want. Hinduism is a curse on South Asia.
Chup madarsachaap...all propaganda by madarsas in Pakistan...
I think you are talking about Pakistan.. If the economy grows and people have something other than Allah and Mohd, then Islam is Honda along with pak army and isi... So if Islam fails then Pakistan breaks, so religion decides politics in pak.
In Hinduism everyone is equal.. Caste was created by British and us kept alive by anti India Muslims and commies.
Slow clap sir, your country is running on handouts, your govt. is asking for leniency on loan repayments, and you are lecturing others about economy. This is some next level confidence.
Who gave you these absurd ideas? You are pronouncing on matters on which you have zero knowledge.You don't have a democracy; only selected Prime Ministers under the thumbs of your generals.Do you know how a democracy really works? Do you know how the Indian masses elect and support parties they trust, and mercilessly throw out those they don't? Irrespective of caste or creed?You don't. You can't. You never will.
@@physicsonline8853 Let it be. They live under delusions of grandeur. That's the only thing they have.
Long live china
A B ghando modi Ghand lagi phatna tio parshad lagi batna
india is playing for the first time in hands of usa, we do it before now regretting
@poorva sharma pechwaray ko hath lago gay tu sorkh or sofaid dono neklay ga
bro look at your own language,what do you mean by saying ( paid to sleep )
Many relationships with USA has worked - Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Western Europe, even Asia Pacific. You have to be a forward looking country and contribute too - not a beggar master relationship Pakistan tries with everyone US, China, Saudi. My advice try it with India - it may work.
@poorva sharma No true Ghazwa e Hind happened in 1971
Not impressive analysis.
Indian Crying :D
NO MORE MENON DIPLOMATS...FIRST KRISHNA MENON NOW THIS NOOB.
CHINA AND PAKISTAN ARE TWO BHAGWAN OF INDIA, AND DO NOT MESS WITH THEM, OTHERWISE BOTH WILL EVAPORATE YOU FROM THE SURFACE OF EARTH. OOM SHANTI OOM.
I doubt anyone can do anything except pure rhetoric. Pakistan is economically too frail to afford any escalation against India, and India-China have too many investments in each others' countries to be able to afford war.
To me, frankly, this so called expert is very professionally dishonest and his over use of the word "frankly"...