People don't understand HOAs. They have ZERO accountability. Zero responsibility. The law stilts in their favor. Corporate veil and contract law. If the HOA breaks the By Laws, it's on you to take your neighbors to court. Everybody pays to fight you whether they want to or not. The pool's safety will never be the HOAs problem. The fence is this guy's problem. BLUF: Never buy a home in an HOA. Never.
The man has a legitimate safety concern only because of his own actions. He should have read the Covenants first -- if he had, he would never have built the pool in the first place because the Covenants don't allow a fence adequate to protect the pool. Stupid rule, but it's his own damned fault for not bothering to read it first.
@@johnsimion2893 " The man has a legitimate safety concern only because of his own actions. He should have read the Covenants first -- if he had, he would never have built the pool in the first place because the Covenants don't allow a fence adequate to protect the pool." Doesn't the City of Wentzville's By-Law, or Ordinance, trumps the HOA rules? Also, what about the State of Missouri's statutes on swimming pool fences? The State law would also trump the HOA rules. A four foot fence is below the City of Wentzville's standard six-foot height, and therefore, the HOA rules should be rescinded.
@@ronaldmccallum2111 Laws are always interpreted to avoid conflicting with each other. The HOA rule did not conflict with the City rule until he built the pool. This begs the question whether the HOA approved the pool itself. The video doesn't say, but I'll bet they didn't because if they had, some sort of fence would have been required as a condition of approval. If the HOA approval had required a 6' fence, then there would be no argument. If they had required only a 4' fence, he could have resolved the matter before spending a dime building the pool. That is the problem with condensing legal issues into a 4 minute video. Regardless, he asked for trouble and it found him.
@@johnsimion2893 the hoa is breaking the law you cannot have a pool over 3 feet deep without being contained so if they allow pools they allow proper safety fences
@Lawrence L. I just said could you be okay if someone died in your pool. I didn't say anything about home owner fault. No matter if you are not to blame or not.
well now if someone drowns they can sue the HOA for not allowing appropriate safety measures to be put in place. It would be hard to defend their position since he pursued a variance for that very reason and was denied.
No Lawrence i am absolutely not blaming you i am saying that if there is an inadequate fence, you will be blamed and held responsible. I am with you my friend, im tired of HOA s having such impunity, i think they should be abolished
Most municipalities require a permit to install an in-ground pool AND require that an in-ground pool be surrounded by a fence with a self closing gate with a lock on it. It would be interesting to know if the town/county/municipality the property is located in requires such an enclosure and, if so, what the minimum height is. Now if the required height, by law, is only 48 inches, then he chose to exceed it. If the required minimum height is 6 feet, then it would seem that the HOA bylaws should not have the power to over ride what is required by law (local building code). Too bad that bit of information is not provided here. All that being said, I too will ever willingly and knowingly purchase a property that is a part of an HOA that has any kind of enforceable bylaws, and the power to levy collectible fine. I do live in a community that has a homeowner's association, but not the kind of association that has any really legal clout. They have tried to flex what they believe are legal muscles, if you will, but learned the hard way when they were basically laughed out of court by a judge.
He broke a rule of the socialist next door. He is going to pay a price. They have him by the tail. Never buy in an HOA unless you submit and stay down on your knees. If they ever see you getting up, you will be put in your place. Trust me.
@Cyndi Rothrock Right. So the HOA is not monitored by the police. The governing documents are seen as contract the homeowner bought into when they purchased their home so most courts will not find in your favor when you are being abused. The governing document language is vague enough to allow the board to color outside the lines any way it wishes to. They can write rules just for everyone that really only pertain to you personally. I've seen it many, many times.
I lived in an HOA for one year and it was the worst experience of my life. It might as well be a separate country with how many rules and regulations they have.
That would fix the problem. Pressure the city council to pass a resolution saying homeowners will be allowed to install a fence of x feet tall around swimming pools for safety reasons.
The city granted a permit for the 6 foot fence. The jerk HOA said no. only a 4 foot fence. I agree with whoever said they should take FULL responsibility for any child who easily defeats their lousy 4ft fence and drowns in the pool.
@@MoneyManHolmes Problem is, the HOA can claim their rules take precedence, since the homeowner signed a contract stating they agreed to the tighter restriction. And the courts would rule in their favor 9 times out of 10.
I looked it up, and they say "at least four feet." It's an easy fix for their legislators - make it six, and they can choose to grandfather those 4-6' in so as to not adversely affect homeowners with existing fences.
In my old neighborhood in the 80s a toddler drowned to death when a new pool had no fence :'( a child's life is irreplaceable, I think this guy deserves a Medal for being a good citizen and definitely a great neighbor thinking about others safety first. Shame on you HOA!!!!
A toddler couldn't climb a 4 ft fence. If someone is stupid enough to live in an hoa they are to stupid to think for themselves and need to follow the rules
I understand he broke the rules and there should maybe be a little fine. However trying to force them to take it down is dumb. And taking this to court is stupid. This is one thing that should be decided by the majority of the community itself because I truly believe that most of them are for it. It's just a board members here that seem to be on a power trip
The rules were there before he put in the pool and the fence. You heard him yourself, he thought it would be easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. That tells me that he knew the rules and deliberately didn't follow them, and now he's paying the price. Does that mean I think this rule is smart? No, and I'd also like to see him keep his fence. But it wasn't an "idiotic rule" until he built his pool with a fence that he knew violated the rule. If you have a problem rule you'd better get it resolved before you go and do a big expensive project like this. Like they said, sometimes there are variances and sometimes HOA covenants can be changed. If you don't pursue your options before plunging ahead, you're the one who is the idiot.
I love my HOA. In Vegas I wouldn’t not live in one. Otherwise you’re in the ghetto. I’ve lived in 6 HOAs coast to coast and not one issue anywhere. Unless you’ve experienced it your advice is pointless. I get sick of seeing these bullshit statements on every random HOA story. They’re like bad reviews, you never hear good ones.
Slight correction: If your neighborhood has an HOA, read the rules first. Most of the rules are very reasonable -- but you can't tell until you read the Covenants. If you actually read the Covenants and you just can't live with their restrictions, THEN yes, run and don't look back. I agree with Fashion Diva, HOAs are necessary and most of the comments here are just bullshit. I'm sticking with my HOA even though I've had trouble with them trying to boss me around. They don't get very far with me because I read and follow the rules and I know them better than they do!
it doesn't matter. I know it seems like it should but this is about power. I am a former HOA board member of many years. Trust me this is not a safety issue. It's control and power. And maybe money. And it's not beyond the pale that this may be a personal issue between the homeowner and someone on the HOA board.
Yes but it’s the APPROVAL that he didn’t get first. Now it’s a power move. They don’t care about the morality of it. They want to make an example of people who don’t bow down and kneel first. White collar corruption.
I would only if the house is grandfathered in so I could reap the benefits of security and not have to pay the HOA. They'll never get a cent out of me 😂
We had the same concerns when we built a pool in our old house. according to the city rules the fence on the street side could not be higher than 4 feet, too low for determined neighborhood kids, our solution was to plant the thorniest holly bushes we could find. They blocked the view from the street and couldn't be climbed without tearing one's skin to shreds.
I'm not fond of HOAs either and do not like to be told what to do with my property. But the reason I do it and I think a lot of others do as well is because of property value. Homes in HOAs far exceed the national average of homes not in HOAs when it comes to holding property values and also the rate of increase over time with property. Because the strict rules keep HOA neighborhoods and properties safe and well kept and don't allow neighbors or people close to you to let their places go down hill or keep unwanted clutter In their yards. Again, I hate the negatives of HOAs but up till this point, the financial aspects of having properties inside an HOA have kept me willing to tolerate them. And I say up till this point because it wouldn't take much to convince me to move if they tried some crap like this guy is dealing with
@@Milesco I have more respect for Viviana than I do for some jackass whose only retort is to belittle someone for spelling or grammar. This is a multicultural world and not everyone speaks or writes perfect English.
"I live in Canada. My dad was required by federal law to have a six foot fence around his pool." Your country has a more sensible law in this regard than here in the US, apparently.
I bought an 18 month old luxury town home while the developer was still building the last half of the community. The developer was serving as the HOA at the time. I asked about the deck. They said it was perfectly fine, we put it on, we put all these decks on all these town houses, you're crazy if you think you'll ever have a problem with this deck from the HOA. You didn't add it the builder put it on along with 40 others. Fast forward 9 years and while selling my home as the HOA Board president who pi$$ed off a board member who was a tyrant, and my HOA resale documents were delayed three weeks over that "unapproved deck." They wanted me to either take it down or submit the original plans for approval. My next door neighbor was the board tyrant and he had a deck too. We lost three sales contracts on that house and ended up losing $20,000 in holding costs, price reductions and curing other issues that were not really problems but buyers became suspicious because the house kept going back on the market. We made one more mistake after that - we bought another HOA home which we sold two years later. Now we live out in the rural areas where nice people have nice homes and there is no board scheming against you because there is no HOA.
Unfortunately, in some parts of the US, it is nearly impossible to find NO HOA housing. There is much greater demand for NO HOA housing than there is supply.
That's why you should NEVER purchase any type of dwelling, or land, that has an HOA, or POA. The only people that ever serve on the boards of them are always the type that want to make others kiss their a**es. If you aren't their buddy, they will cause you every possible problem.
Hey guess what HOA president ... some kid came into my yard fell in my pool and drowned after you forced me to take the fence down. I sure hope you can afford the multy-million dollar law suit.
That fence is nice and it would actually add value to the house: a nice, fenced-in pool is a big selling point. I just cannot understand how they just do not retroactively approve if it improves the home and neighborhood? The HOA is so frustrating; I couldn’t live with one.
"Take down fence, child drowns when homeowner gone, sue the HOA!" VERY dumb idea! The pool owner would clearly be on the hook, then. The HOA permits four-foot fences.
I thought it was a law that swimming pools had to have restricted access. Otherwise the owner is responsible for any mishaps. So they let him put in a pool but didn't address any safety ordinance.
I hate HOAS and actually sold my house when I found out it was going to HOA. Yes ilana fence is neccessary... but a short 4 foot latter or and chair...can assist a child to climb over that fence. It wasn't that tall.
@@cindarella2954 Thank you, I was just confused by this poster's statement on that. It would definitely seem that if you already have a deeded property, you can't suddenly be forced to join an HOA.
@KatieBellino I didn't want to be in the neighborhood with an hoa. That means if my kids wanted to play but a neighbor could not put a fence up to protect kids...I don't want my kids raised in that area.
My aunt and uncle wanted to build a pool in their backyard in the 90s. And at the time unfortunately, the neighborhood was part of an HOA. HOA had no problems with them installing the pool at all. My uncle had already gotten the permits and approval from the town for both the pool and the 8 foot high fence around it. He never bothered asking the HOA about the fence height because he already knew that they would have only allowed a 5 foot high fence. And the town required a minimum of 6 feet if you had a pool on the property. They built the pool, then the fence right away. They wanted it 8 feet because the Labrador Retriever that they had then could clear 6 foot high one with no problem. So when HOA started complaining about the height, they stood their ground and showed them the letter from the town officials office and fire department. The letter stated that safety regulations required a minimum fence height of 6 feet for a swimming pool. HOA had no choice but to give in and not bring the issue up ever again or they would be pay harassment fines. Thank God the neighborhood was able to go to the town office a few years later and voted to get rid of the HOA because they were just trying to make everything hard for everyone. Bottom line: whatever your local town/ city code is for having a swimming pool, it automatically cancels out anything the HOA says!
i'd lower the fence to 4ft but only upon every member of the HOA board signing an agreement that they may be charged with manslaughter by gross negligence if a child climbs the compliant lowered fence and drowns.
one thing i learned , that shocked me about home owners insurance, is if you own a pool, and put up a fence, if a person climbs your fence, without permission, and drowns in your pool, you are held responsible. its nuts. that means if a person walks in your yard and falls in your pool your responsible. hes right to have a fence
I find it ridiculous that people would a buy $500 000+ house, just to be told what to do with it. You are essentially leaving in a rental you paid for as if you own. At the end of the day you don't own shit.
When going to trial, I would speak loud and clear that if I had to lower the fence by the president of the HOA, that I would sue and hold him/her accountable for any child who was injured or even worse because of negligence. I would even see if this could be a criminal charge against the president.
HOA's are almost always entirely run by groups of people full of their own self importance who actually have no idea. They usually have a career history of never actually making anything of themselves and therefore use their self created position of authority to boss people about. Other than basic aesthetic matters, i.e. making sure properties do not end up looking a mess, HOA's should have no say.
@2:25 "who has the final say when it comes to approving something on PRIVATE PROPERTY, is it the city or is it the HOA" "so the city will issue permits based upon the city's regulations; if an HOA has a particular restriction that's stricter than what the city has then the HOA would be responsible for enforcing that particular requirement" Now here's the question: which restriction is stricter? The HOA wants fences restricted to 4ft or less. (presumably for AESTHETIC reasons). What is the city restriction on fences around POOLS for SAFETY reasons? Wouldn't the city's restriction for SAFETY reasons be 6 ft or MORE? Common sense says that the SAFETY issue takes precedence.
Recently purchased a home, we turned down several nice homes that were at bottom of our budget because of H.O.A. community , will not let someone else who doesn't pay my bills to dictate what i do on my property legally
WTF?! He has a swimming pool so he can't NOT have a fence. If a child goes into a pool that has no fence with a locked gate and gets hurt or drowns then it's ALL on the owner. It's called Enticement.
Sumonelse what I understand is, it's not about just having a fence. It's the height of it. The HOA wants it to be 4 feet tall. He had it at 6 foot. A child can climb a 4 foot fence. This fence is safer at 6 foot and harder to climb. What's crazy is his fence is similar to the community pools fence. So you'd think this fence would be approved also. His other neighbors approve of it. It's just the HOA idiot across the street. This is ridiculous, I hope he wins his suit.
@@katz734 Sometimes the HOA makes it a personal issue and it becomes more about winning an argument than about what's right for everyone. The HOA hates being wrong and will dig their heels in and not budge
Shawn K , The pool is not in question , the pool is fine , and still would be fine with a 4 foot fence , it's only the height of the fence in question , the home owner thought it would be safer with a higher fence , which it is , but the (HOA) Home Own Association doesn't approve of the 6 foot fence , only a 4 foot fence can be installed around your property whether you have a pool or not , the neighbors have a 4 foot fence around their property and no pool , it's the height requirement of fence only in question here , has nothing to do with a pool
I think it's rare for small children to go into other people's yards to swim in their pools without permission. The being said, if the man wants a fence, let him have one, it's his property.
Ever been a teenager and hopped a 4ft fence to get in a pool after midnight? Pretty easy. 6ft, most can't easily jump that, especially without some serious noise
I had my own personal and unforgettable experience having an HOA. I simply cannot understand their oftentimes callous and indifferent treatment of homeowners!
Something else to think about. Has anyone and this includes any reporter or journalist seeing this. Has anyone actually bothered to really dig up the credential certification process to be an H.O.A? A single Real estate Lisence does NOT grant you permission to be an HOA. YOU MUST have certification or training in the following: Real Estate, Real Estate Law, Property Portfolio, Electrical, Plumbing, H.V.A.C., Property Management & Maintenance. This is for Starters. I can Gurantee that NOT a single HOA in this country will have more than 2 of the previously mentioned!
I hope that fence stays. It's safe. I'd hate for it to come down and someone to fall in and drown. 3 to 4 feet high wouldn't be high enough to keep out children.
Take down the fence, IF, the HOA 100% LEGALLY assumes all liability for ANY injury OR death caused by interaction with the pool and the home owner has 0% liability and doesn't have to change anything or do anything to safeguard it. If a pool is allowed, the 6 - 8 foot un-climbable fence is considered a required part of the pool.
Yeah that's not the way liability works, unfortunately. Unless the local law requires 6 ft, the HOA is within their right to enforce. My advice would be to carry plenty of liability insurance. You can fight it in court, but as he's learning it'll cost you nothing but money and frustration. He should have asked for permission FIRST. This is one of most common mistakes people make. Many CC&Rs also say if you get sued for violating a rule, you pay the HOAs legal fees. This is to protect the other owners. Like the lawyer said, you should read the docs before agreeing to them. Ignorance is no excuse.
I live in Florida and I'm pretty State Law requires you to have a fence capable of keeping all people out of it. With it you are not held accountable if a kid drowns in it. Now I may not be right , but, I'm fairly certain.
@@bitsnpieces11 Florida law is only 4 feet. The HOA needs to meet state law -- meaning, 4 feet would have to be allowed, but 6 feet is at HOA discretion. In this case, the guy installed 6 feet. He should have gained approval first. In general, if you're changing appearance of the exterior (new color roof, new fence, new shed), you should gain approval first to avoid these issues. If the owner doesn't like that, probably shouldn't have bought into an HOA. They're not for everyone. Source on law: www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0515/0515.html
If the HOA prohibits the safety mechanism, then then logically the HOA assumes 100% of the liability. Hmmm, allow a 6ft fence, or pay 20 million for a wrongful death? No brainer.
Hopefully another mistrial. While the HOA clearly has the authority to take down the fence, common sense should prevail. I would vote for the homeowner if I was on the jury. It is indeed a safety hazard for children.
HOA and the president that inforced the rule to tear down the fence. In reality he should be able to put up a 10 ft fence if he deems neccessary for safety and privacy.
we had a home designed and were told the HOA was going to just me fees for the grass…when we got the by laws we refused to proceed it was much more than they said….and there is always a person who has way to much time on their hands!
Here's a thought: let's say this guy, who is trying to do the right thing, ends up having to lower the fence to four feet. A kid gets inside the pool area and drowns. Seems to me that the HOA would be more on the hook than the pool owner. In a court case, the pool owner could simply turn over the documentation, showing that not only did the HOA deny him a variance on the fence height, but even sued him to have him change the fence to the lower four-foot height. I'm not an attorney, but I'd think that would be pretty damning evidence against the HOA, rather than the pool owner.
The HOA has demonstrated that they don't care about safety so put in the 4 foot fence and if something bad happens, the HOA will be liable by their own words and actions.
You're missing the point. The HOA will NEVER accept responsibility for a privately owned home or pool or anything. This guy is in a trick. He trusted his HOA. Now they are going to run him out of this home. Or he will have to comply and come up with something they like. Drive the extra 20 minutes and live in a nice area without an HOA.
I'm a 350 lb 6'3" man and I have a 4' fence around my back yard. I jump over it all the time because my girlfriend lives directly behind me on the next street over. I watch her 2 kids (7 and 8 years old.) all the time and they freely jump the fence nearly everyday even though I put in a gate. I don't mind, it's become a habit for us all, but that gate wasn't cheap to put in.
This particular case should be an exception given the added protection given there is a potentially dangerous area (swimming pool). Also, I feel these "HOA big heads" have nothing better to do than literally walk around the neighborhood and solicit their email address where anyone can file a potential anonymous complaint (ridiculous).
Maybe his lawyer should suggest that the hoa is now responsible for any accidents that happen because they made him take down the fence.
The problem is that if he did that then he wouldn't get his kick back!... They have him in their pocket.
People don't understand HOAs. They have ZERO accountability. Zero responsibility. The law stilts in their favor. Corporate veil and contract law. If the HOA breaks the By Laws, it's on you to take your neighbors to court. Everybody pays to fight you whether they want to or not. The pool's safety will never be the HOAs problem. The fence is this guy's problem. BLUF: Never buy a home in an HOA. Never.
Someone could die that’s not a good idea
Great idea. Se how they like that.
@@bernardschmitt6389 jeez...you cant have it both ways. If they make him take it down then its on them!
The HOA is unbelievable. The man has a legitimate safety concern. That's why I would never buy a house with an HOA.
The man has a legitimate safety concern only because of his own actions. He should have read the Covenants first -- if he had, he would never have built the pool in the first place because the Covenants don't allow a fence adequate to protect the pool. Stupid rule, but it's his own damned fault for not bothering to read it first.
@@johnsimion2893
" The man has a legitimate safety concern only because of his own actions. He should have read the Covenants first -- if he had, he would never have built the pool in the first place because the Covenants don't allow a fence adequate to protect the pool."
Doesn't the City of Wentzville's By-Law, or Ordinance, trumps the HOA rules? Also, what about the State of Missouri's statutes on swimming pool fences? The State law would also trump the HOA rules. A four foot fence is below the City of Wentzville's standard six-foot height, and therefore, the HOA rules should be rescinded.
@@ronaldmccallum2111 Laws are always interpreted to avoid conflicting with each other. The HOA rule did not conflict with the City rule until he built the pool. This begs the question whether the HOA approved the pool itself. The video doesn't say, but I'll bet they didn't because if they had, some sort of fence would have been required as a condition of approval. If the HOA approval had required a 6' fence, then there would be no argument. If they had required only a 4' fence, he could have resolved the matter before spending a dime building the pool. That is the problem with condensing legal issues into a 4 minute video. Regardless, he asked for trouble and it found him.
@@johnsimion2893 I'll bet they did otherwise he would have already had an issue with the pool being there not just the fence.
@@johnsimion2893 the hoa is breaking the law you cannot have a pool over 3 feet deep without being contained so if they allow pools they allow proper safety fences
If someone drowned though the hoa would have sued him for a unprotected pool
@Lawrence L. but could you be OKAY with knowing that someone died in your pool.
@Lawrence L. I just said could you be okay if someone died in your pool. I didn't say anything about home owner fault. No matter if you are not to blame or not.
well now if someone drowns they can sue the HOA for not allowing appropriate safety measures to be put in place. It would be hard to defend their position since he pursued a variance for that very reason and was denied.
@Lawrence L. why don't you join us in a little reality break Lawrence, the only one who will be blamed or will pay is the homeowner
No Lawrence i am absolutely not blaming you i am saying that if there is an inadequate fence, you will be blamed and held responsible. I am with you my friend, im tired of HOA s having such impunity, i think they should be abolished
Man spends 10k for the safety of others. HOA "we don't do that here."
(child drowns after fence is removed)
lawyer: (sues hoa for 1 million)
He built the fence too high.
He could have simply followed the rules and built it 48" but chose not to.
Most insurance companies require swimming pools be surrounded with fencing to keep people away from pools to prevent accidental drowning.
Most municipalities require a permit to install an in-ground pool AND require that an in-ground pool be surrounded by a fence with a self closing gate with a lock on it. It would be interesting to know if the town/county/municipality the property is located in requires such an enclosure and, if so, what the minimum height is. Now if the required height, by law, is only 48 inches, then he chose to exceed it. If the required minimum height is 6 feet, then it would seem that the HOA bylaws should not have the power to over ride what is required by law (local building code). Too bad that bit of information is not provided here. All that being said, I too will ever willingly and knowingly purchase a property that is a part of an HOA that has any kind of enforceable bylaws, and the power to levy collectible fine. I do live in a community that has a homeowner's association, but not the kind of association that has any really legal clout. They have tried to flex what they believe are legal muscles, if you will, but learned the hard way when they were basically laughed out of court by a judge.
it's just that those kind of fences on a house out in the middle of the neighborhood are a frikkin eyesore.
He broke a rule of the socialist next door. He is going to pay a price. They have him by the tail. Never buy in an HOA unless you submit and stay down on your knees. If they ever see you getting up, you will be put in your place. Trust me.
@Cyndi Rothrock Right. So the HOA is not monitored by the police. The governing documents are seen as contract the homeowner bought into when they purchased their home so most courts will not find in your favor when you are being abused. The governing document language is vague enough to allow the board to color outside the lines any way it wishes to. They can write rules just for everyone that really only pertain to you personally. I've seen it many, many times.
In Australia, all pools MUST have a fence AND childproof gates. And that is state law in every state.
I lived in an HOA for one year and it was the worst experience of my life. It might as well be a separate country with how many rules and regulations they have.
I'm surprised that the City does not have a 6ft fence ordinance for in-ground pools.
That would fix the problem. Pressure the city council to pass a resolution saying homeowners will be allowed to install a fence of x feet tall around swimming pools for safety reasons.
The city granted a permit for the 6 foot fence. The jerk HOA said no. only a 4 foot fence. I agree with whoever said they should take FULL responsibility for any child who easily defeats their lousy 4ft fence and drowns in the pool.
@@MoneyManHolmes Problem is, the HOA can claim their rules take precedence, since the homeowner signed a contract stating they agreed to the tighter restriction. And the courts would rule in their favor 9 times out of 10.
I looked it up, and they say "at least four feet." It's an easy fix for their legislators - make it six, and they can choose to grandfather those 4-6' in so as to not adversely affect homeowners with existing fences.
most do
In my old neighborhood in the 80s a toddler drowned to death when a new pool had no fence :'( a child's life is irreplaceable, I think this guy deserves a Medal for being a good citizen and definitely a great neighbor thinking about others safety first. Shame on you HOA!!!!
Agreed
A toddler couldn't climb a 4 ft fence. If someone is stupid enough to live in an hoa they are to stupid to think for themselves and need to follow the rules
@@scootersonlyrepair510 You would be shocked what a toddler can climb.
State law requires 48" fence height.
He would not be subject to liability as long as the fence was 48" and not 72".
Is it just me or did that reporter really want to say "Don't buy in an HOA!"?
Definitely
He did and he is correct. HOAs are stupid
The H O A is ridiculous. The safety of children are more important that idiotic rules.
Half the jury were too stupid to see that.
I understand he broke the rules and there should maybe be a little fine. However trying to force them to take it down is dumb. And taking this to court is stupid. This is one thing that should be decided by the majority of the community itself because I truly believe that most of them are for it. It's just a board members here that seem to be on a power trip
The rules were there before he put in the pool and the fence. You heard him yourself, he thought it would be easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. That tells me that he knew the rules and deliberately didn't follow them, and now he's paying the price. Does that mean I think this rule is smart? No, and I'd also like to see him keep his fence. But it wasn't an "idiotic rule" until he built his pool with a fence that he knew violated the rule. If you have a problem rule you'd better get it resolved before you go and do a big expensive project like this. Like they said, sometimes there are variances and sometimes HOA covenants can be changed. If you don't pursue your options before plunging ahead, you're the one who is the idiot.
One of the last neighborhoods I lived in had an HOA in the one thing I learned is the HOA doesn't care as long as they're lining their pockets
The HOA didn't give him a pool but those rules were agreed upon before hand. Maybe he should learn to adult. That is a huge problem in our world.
"If the home has an HOA, re-consider" is what I thought you were going to say. HOAs are such a scam.
If the neighborhood has an HOA, Do Not Read The Rules: RUN! And Don’t Look Back
Truth!
I love my HOA. In Vegas I wouldn’t not live in one. Otherwise you’re in the ghetto. I’ve lived in 6 HOAs coast to coast and not one issue anywhere. Unless you’ve experienced it your advice is pointless. I get sick of seeing these bullshit statements on every random HOA story. They’re like bad reviews, you never hear good ones.
Slight correction: If your neighborhood has an HOA, read the rules first. Most of the rules are very reasonable -- but you can't tell until you read the Covenants. If you actually read the Covenants and you just can't live with their restrictions, THEN yes, run and don't look back. I agree with Fashion Diva, HOAs are necessary and most of the comments here are just bullshit. I'm sticking with my HOA even though I've had trouble with them trying to boss me around. They don't get very far with me because I read and follow the rules and I know them better than they do!
Never hear good reviews of hoa
Gee i wonder why
@@johnsimion2893 I get that not all HOAs are 'the devil' and whatnot, but to say that they 'are necessary' is a gigantic stretch.
Any place I know when you have a pool it's the law you have to have a 6ft fence
Most insurance policies require a 6th fence, the law doesn't.
it doesn't matter. I know it seems like it should but this is about power. I am a former HOA board member of many years. Trust me this is not a safety issue. It's control and power. And maybe money. And it's not beyond the pale that this may be a personal issue between the homeowner and someone on the HOA board.
Yes but it’s the APPROVAL that he didn’t get first. Now it’s a power move. They don’t care about the morality of it. They want to make an example of people who don’t bow down and kneel first. White collar corruption.
Yeah i dont get it, Its not like he put a normal chain link. He put a cookie cutter, lame ass, regular white fence. They shouldnt have an issue.
That's why I refuse to live ANYWHERE that has an HOA.
THAT IS WHY I DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN HOA TOWN PERIOD
I scream why at all these stories
You don't always get that choice.
@@olstar18 Sure you do. Don't buy a HOA house.
@@acatic80 And what if the only decent houses are in hoa's because the companies that built them established the hoa.
@@freespirit3891 Do you have anything useful to add to a dead thread.
NEVER BUY IN HOA CONTROL HOUSING.
I would only if the house is grandfathered in so I could reap the benefits of security and not have to pay the HOA. They'll never get a cent out of me 😂
@@Blobstermcblobster yep!!!
"It's up to the documents"… documents written by people… people who should be able to understand that safety is more important than a document
We had the same concerns when we built a pool in our old house. according to the city rules the fence on the street side could not be higher than 4 feet, too low for determined neighborhood kids, our solution was to plant the thorniest holly bushes we could find. They blocked the view from the street and couldn't be climbed without tearing one's skin to shreds.
Why would you buy property that someone tells you what you can do on it
I'm not fond of HOAs either and do not like to be told what to do with my property. But the reason I do it and I think a lot of others do as well is because of property value. Homes in HOAs far exceed the national average of homes not in HOAs when it comes to holding property values and also the rate of increase over time with property. Because the strict rules keep HOA neighborhoods and properties safe and well kept and don't allow neighbors or people close to you to let their places go down hill or keep unwanted clutter In their yards. Again, I hate the negatives of HOAs but up till this point, the financial aspects of having properties inside an HOA have kept me willing to tolerate them. And I say up till this point because it wouldn't take much to convince me to move if they tried some crap like this guy is dealing with
I will never buy a house with H.O.A.. Is my property. And i should be able to do what i esnt.
Learn some grammar.
Elliot Reviews he said he should be allowed to do what he wants. If he wants to use bad grammar, then let him use bad grammar.
@@Keaton0801 : But if he wants his comments to be understood and respected, he should use proper grammar and spelling.
@@Milesco I have more respect for Viviana than I do for some jackass whose only retort is to belittle someone for spelling or grammar. This is a multicultural world and not everyone speaks or writes perfect English.
I live in Canada. My dad was required by federal law to have a six foot fence around his pool.
"I live in Canada. My dad was required by federal law to have a six foot fence around his pool."
Your country has a more sensible law in this regard than here in the US, apparently.
Getting rid of hoa’s would be easy-just refuse to buy property where a hoa exist.
I bought an 18 month old luxury town home while the developer was still building the last half of the community. The developer was serving as the HOA at the time. I asked about the deck. They said it was perfectly fine, we put it on, we put all these decks on all these town houses, you're crazy if you think you'll ever have a problem with this deck from the HOA. You didn't add it the builder put it on along with 40 others. Fast forward 9 years and while selling my home as the HOA Board president who pi$$ed off a board member who was a tyrant, and my HOA resale documents were delayed three weeks over that "unapproved deck." They wanted me to either take it down or submit the original plans for approval. My next door neighbor was the board tyrant and he had a deck too. We lost three sales contracts on that house and ended up losing $20,000 in holding costs, price reductions and curing other issues that were not really problems but buyers became suspicious because the house kept going back on the market. We made one more mistake after that - we bought another HOA home which we sold two years later. Now we live out in the rural areas where nice people have nice homes and there is no board scheming against you because there is no HOA.
good move
I'd like to know if that attorney who defends HOA's, if he would ever live in one himself?
yes and the HOA board of his neighborhood is afraid of him so he's good.
"Read the rules" I'll do you one better, I'll just not buy a house if it's part of an HOA
Yeah, that's MY rule -- never buy a home in a HOA community!
Unfortunately, in some parts of the US, it is nearly impossible to find NO HOA housing. There is much greater demand for NO HOA housing than there is supply.
@P N if one forms after you already starting buying the house, you ARE NOT required to be part of the hoa.
No HOA! 🤩
That's why you should NEVER purchase any type of dwelling, or land, that has an HOA, or POA. The only people that ever serve on the boards of them are always the type that want to make others kiss their a**es. If you aren't their buddy, they will cause you every possible problem.
You are so, so right. I agree with you 100%.
Hey guess what HOA president ... some kid came into my yard fell in my pool and drowned after you forced me to take the fence down. I sure hope you can afford the multy-million dollar law suit.
HOA: Nope, your pool, your responsibility. We're not paying a dime even if we lose.
I'm wondering what was the result after the case was tried again?
That's what I hate about these kinds of news pieces -- they *_never_* do a follow-up and tell you how it turned out.
My guess: the HOA won.
The story suggests that he had to give up because of legal costs, since he said he would lose sleep when he had to install a four foot fence.
That fence is nice and it would actually add value to the house: a nice, fenced-in pool is a big selling point. I just cannot understand how they just do not retroactively approve if it improves the home and neighborhood? The HOA is so frustrating; I couldn’t live with one.
I didn't want to buy into one, but our NO HOA options were too slim. I wish we could render HOAs unconstitutional.
Why don't the hoa rule mandate a tall fence when you have a pool?
because if there is a 6ft fence they cant see into your yard therefore they cant dobbed or fine you for specious reasons.
ALL THE NOPES IN NOPE LAND...
I’ll never live in an HOA.
NOPE NOPE NOPE!!!
Never, never, NEVER buy in an HOA. If there is a voluntary one DON'T VOLUNTEER!
He should counter-sue. Malicious persecution.
The HOA would go bankrupt. The insurance on an open pool with no fence would bankrupt the HOA if found to be transferred to their responsibility
Take down fence, child drowns when homeowner gone, sue the HOA!
"Take down fence, child drowns when homeowner gone, sue the HOA!"
VERY dumb idea! The pool owner would clearly be on the hook, then. The HOA permits four-foot fences.
@@lyndagruen2047 Child jumps over much shorter 4 foot fence, child drowns, sue the HOA.
If the neighborhood has an HOA, don't even move into it.
I thought it was a law that swimming pools had to have restricted access. Otherwise the owner is responsible for any mishaps. So they let him put in a pool but didn't address any safety ordinance.
I hate HOAS and actually sold my house when I found out it was going to HOA. Yes ilana fence is neccessary... but a short 4 foot latter or and chair...can assist a child to climb over that fence. It wasn't that tall.
If a HOA is established after you move in, you *cannot* be forced to join.
@@cindarella2954 Thank you, I was just confused by this poster's statement on that. It would definitely seem that if you already have a deeded property, you can't suddenly be forced to join an HOA.
@KatieBellino I didn't want to be in the neighborhood with an hoa. That means if my kids wanted to play but a neighbor could not put a fence up to protect kids...I don't want my kids raised in that area.
@@cindarella2954I wasn't forced. Just didn't want to be in an hoa area.
HOA's have too much power!
I like his fence. Beautiful workmanship and it serves a purpose. 🤷🏿♀️
Bottom line...Do not buy any property with an HOA
My aunt and uncle wanted to build a pool in their backyard in the 90s. And at the time unfortunately, the neighborhood was part of an HOA. HOA had no problems with them installing the pool at all. My uncle had already gotten the permits and approval from the town for both the pool and the 8 foot high fence around it. He never bothered asking the HOA about the fence height because he already knew that they would have only allowed a 5 foot high fence. And the town required a minimum of 6 feet if you had a pool on the property.
They built the pool, then the fence right away. They wanted it 8 feet because the Labrador Retriever that they had then could clear 6 foot high one with no problem. So when HOA started complaining about the height, they stood their ground and showed them the letter from the town officials office and fire department. The letter stated that safety regulations required a minimum fence height of 6 feet for a swimming pool.
HOA had no choice but to give in and not bring the issue up ever again or they would be pay harassment fines. Thank God the neighborhood was able to go to the town office a few years later and voted to get rid of the HOA because they were just trying to make everything hard for everyone.
Bottom line: whatever your local town/ city code is for having a swimming pool, it automatically cancels out anything the HOA says!
HOA??? RUN AS FAR AND AS FAST AS YOU CAN
Enjoy you HOA🤣😂🤣😂
Lived in one for 5 years, never again!!!!!!!!!!
Strike one - (0:54)
Strike two - (4:20)
Strike THREE - Direct neighbors has no problem
The HOA should assume all liability for any accident. PERIOD!!
NEVER NEVER NEVER buy a house in an HOA!!! You WILL be sorry!
i'd lower the fence to 4ft but only upon every member of the HOA board signing an agreement that they may be charged with manslaughter by gross negligence if a child climbs the compliant lowered fence and drowns.
I'll take things that'll never happen for $500, Alex!
one thing i learned , that shocked me about home owners insurance, is if you own a pool, and put up a fence, if a person climbs your fence, without permission, and drowns in your pool, you are held responsible. its nuts. that means if a person walks in your yard and falls in your pool your responsible. hes right to have a fence
Yet another reason I will never live in an H O A
Before you buy a house, don’t buy it in an HOA
Put in 2ft of dirt on the inside of the fence
Be against the rules.
I thought it was against the law to have an in ground pool without a fence.
I find it ridiculous that people would a buy $500 000+ house, just to be told what to do with it. You are essentially leaving in a rental you paid for as if you own. At the end of the day you don't own shit.
When going to trial, I would speak loud and clear that if I had to lower the fence by the president of the HOA, that I would sue and hold him/her accountable for any child who was injured or even worse because of negligence. I would even see if this could be a criminal charge against the president.
Good man! Pool fences are mandatory in Australia.
You would think by now people would know better than to purchase a home in a neighborhood with an HOA. People, just DON'T...
HOA's are almost always entirely run by groups of people full of their own self importance who actually have no idea. They usually have a career history of never actually making anything of themselves and therefore use their self created position of authority to boss people about. Other than basic aesthetic matters, i.e. making sure properties do not end up looking a mess, HOA's should have no say.
Just have the city change it’s rule to 6 ft fence around pools like all other cities the hoa can’t fight city laws
@2:25 "who has the final say when it comes to approving something on PRIVATE PROPERTY, is it the city or is it the HOA"
"so the city will issue permits based upon the city's regulations; if an HOA has a particular restriction that's stricter than what the city has then the HOA would be responsible for enforcing that particular requirement"
Now here's the question: which restriction is stricter?
The HOA wants fences restricted to 4ft or less. (presumably for AESTHETIC reasons).
What is the city restriction on fences around POOLS for SAFETY reasons?
Wouldn't the city's restriction for SAFETY reasons be 6 ft or MORE?
Common sense says that the SAFETY issue takes precedence.
That is why I moved out of the last house I was in
KMOV, how about a link to the follow up? How did the retrial go? Inquiring minds want to know!
This man was responsible enough to keep kids safe. Nobody is complaining about it but the counsel. What a bunch of BABIES!!!
and his HOA Board President neighbor LOL
HOA SUCKS. Make them take there fence down. I'm sure there insurance requires the fence.
Bruce Coleman “there”? Idiot
@@johnp139
Well excuse the fuck out of me
HOA folks need to meet the ole boy network.
Recently purchased a home, we turned down several nice homes that were at bottom of our budget because of H.O.A. community , will not let someone else who doesn't pay my bills to dictate what i do on my property legally
WTF?! He has a swimming pool so he can't NOT have a fence. If a child goes into a pool that has no fence with a locked gate and gets hurt or drowns then it's ALL on the owner.
It's called Enticement.
Sumonelse what I understand is, it's not about just having a fence. It's the height of it. The HOA wants it to be 4 feet tall. He had it at 6 foot. A child can climb a 4 foot fence. This fence is safer at 6 foot and harder to climb. What's crazy is his fence is similar to the community pools fence. So you'd think this fence would be approved also. His other neighbors approve of it. It's just the HOA idiot across the street. This is ridiculous, I hope he wins his suit.
@@katz734 Sometimes the HOA makes it a personal issue and it becomes more about winning an argument than about what's right for everyone. The HOA hates being wrong and will dig their heels in and not budge
If the neighborhood has an HOA do not move in.
No way! 😮
Little vigilante justice goes a long way.
Even better suggestion, STOP BUYING A HOME IN AN HOA.
Lots missing here... did the HOA not give approval for the pool to begin with?
Shawn K , The pool is not in question , the pool is fine , and still would be fine with a 4 foot fence , it's only the height of the fence in question , the home owner thought it would be safer with a higher fence , which it is , but the (HOA) Home Own Association doesn't approve of the 6 foot fence , only a 4 foot fence can be installed around your property whether you have a pool or not , the neighbors have a 4 foot fence around their property and no pool , it's the height requirement of fence only in question here , has nothing to do with a pool
I think it's rare for small children to go into other people's yards to swim in their pools without permission. The being said, if the man wants a fence, let him have one, it's his property.
Might not be going to swim. May be walking without looking and fall in, especially when the pool is flat and laid flush with the ground
@@erinnorwood6124 That makes sense.
Ever been a teenager and hopped a 4ft fence to get in a pool after midnight? Pretty easy. 6ft, most can't easily jump that, especially without some serious noise
I had my own personal and unforgettable experience having an HOA. I simply cannot understand their oftentimes callous and indifferent treatment of homeowners!
Considering this is volunteer work, you have to realize you get what you pay for.
Something else to think about. Has anyone and this includes any reporter or journalist seeing this.
Has anyone actually bothered to really dig up the credential certification process to be an H.O.A?
A single Real estate Lisence does NOT grant you permission to be an HOA. YOU MUST have certification or training in the following: Real Estate, Real Estate Law, Property Portfolio, Electrical, Plumbing, H.V.A.C., Property Management & Maintenance. This is for Starters. I can Gurantee that NOT a single HOA in this country will have more than 2 of the previously mentioned!
A love of a 45 will fix HOS too.
Any updates?
He should got approved HOA has lot of power HOA gonna spend 100k over president chip on his shoulder think it's the law you have too have 6 foot fence
Very nice fence. Why would anybody care to look at each other’s yards anyway
People ignorant of their own property
With an HOA it probably gives them better opportunities to snoop on you.
I hope that fence stays. It's safe. I'd hate for it to come down and someone to fall in and drown. 3 to 4 feet high wouldn't be high enough to keep out children.
Take down the fence, IF, the HOA 100% LEGALLY assumes all liability for ANY injury OR death caused by interaction with the pool and the home owner has 0% liability and doesn't have to change anything or do anything to safeguard it. If a pool is allowed, the 6 - 8 foot un-climbable fence is considered a required part of the pool.
Yeah that's not the way liability works, unfortunately. Unless the local law requires 6 ft, the HOA is within their right to enforce. My advice would be to carry plenty of liability insurance. You can fight it in court, but as he's learning it'll cost you nothing but money and frustration. He should have asked for permission FIRST. This is one of most common mistakes people make. Many CC&Rs also say if you get sued for violating a rule, you pay the HOAs legal fees. This is to protect the other owners. Like the lawyer said, you should read the docs before agreeing to them. Ignorance is no excuse.
I live in Florida and I'm pretty State Law requires you to have a fence capable of keeping all people out of it. With it you are not held accountable if a kid drowns in it. Now I may not be right , but, I'm fairly certain.
@@bitsnpieces11 Florida law is only 4 feet. The HOA needs to meet state law -- meaning, 4 feet would have to be allowed, but 6 feet is at HOA discretion. In this case, the guy installed 6 feet. He should have gained approval first. In general, if you're changing appearance of the exterior (new color roof, new fence, new shed), you should gain approval first to avoid these issues. If the owner doesn't like that, probably shouldn't have bought into an HOA. They're not for everyone.
Source on law: www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0515/0515.html
And that is one of the many reasons I would rather live under a plastic sheet than in an HOA area.
@@bitsnpieces11 then you're exactly the type of person they don't want, so win-win. :)
If the HOA prohibits the safety mechanism, then then logically the HOA assumes 100% of the liability. Hmmm, allow a 6ft fence, or pay 20 million for a wrongful death? No brainer.
Waste of money trying to dictate random decisions upon citizens. Who asked for this America?
Anyone knows what happened on the second trial? Can't find anything about it on the net.
Hopefully another mistrial. While the HOA clearly has the authority to take down the fence, common sense should prevail. I would vote for the homeowner if I was on the jury. It is indeed a safety hazard for children.
For the love of God let the man have his fence
Imagine being a member of this HOA and seeing the board spend your dues like this. I'd vote them out as soon as possible.
“If they do” RUN
I have turned down homes because they have a HOA. i will never buy a home with one.
Same here! 😎
The Attractive Nuisance Doctrine requires maintaining a fence around a pool to prevent drownings of neighboring children.
It's a simple fix. Now if a child or anyone gets injured in the pool. The HOA is now the responsible party and should be held liable.
HOA and the president that inforced the rule to tear down the fence. In reality he should be able to put up a 10 ft fence if he deems neccessary for safety and privacy.
Yoyo know, I like this reporter. He actually does a good interview that gets to the point and he isn’t an asshole.
I was watching the whole time and didn't realize that this was in my town lol. Down with HOAs
He did right by buying a taller fence for safety reasons around his pool
Never ever buy a house under HOA authority!!!!!
True that.
we had a home designed and were told the HOA was going to just me fees for the grass…when we got the by laws we refused to proceed it was much more than they said….and there is always a person who has way to much time on their hands!
In our city, we are required to have a secure sux foot fence around an in-ground pool.
First thing I asked my neighbor before I bought my house in their subdivision was if the neighborhood had an HOA. She told me no and I said great!!!!
Here's a thought: let's say this guy, who is trying to do the right thing, ends up having to lower the fence to four feet. A kid gets inside the pool area and drowns. Seems to me that the HOA would be more on the hook than the pool owner. In a court case, the pool owner could simply turn over the documentation, showing that not only did the HOA deny him a variance on the fence height, but even sued him to have him change the fence to the lower four-foot height. I'm not an attorney, but I'd think that would be pretty damning evidence against the HOA, rather than the pool owner.
It seems like it would very difficult to sue him at that point.
The HOA has demonstrated that they don't care about safety so put in the 4 foot fence and if something bad happens, the HOA will be liable by their own words and actions.
You're missing the point. The HOA will NEVER accept responsibility for a privately owned home or pool or anything. This guy is in a trick. He trusted his HOA. Now they are going to run him out of this home. Or he will have to comply and come up with something they like. Drive the extra 20 minutes and live in a nice area without an HOA.
I'm a 350 lb 6'3" man and I have a 4' fence around my back yard. I jump over it all the time because my girlfriend lives directly behind me on the next street over. I watch her 2 kids (7 and 8 years old.) all the time and they freely jump the fence nearly everyday even though I put in a gate. I don't mind, it's become a habit for us all, but that gate wasn't cheap to put in.
Is that pool situated in the front yard? Interesting landscape.
This particular case should be an exception given the added protection given there is a potentially dangerous area (swimming pool). Also, I feel these "HOA big heads" have nothing better to do than literally walk around the neighborhood and solicit their email address where anyone can file a potential anonymous complaint (ridiculous).
The issue is not the fence, it's its height.