I think folks have been saying the scarab shipment plus runes is a bit better but since its just a lot of extra clicking tbh maybe ill swap to stacked decks xD
I checked your Channel, your videos contain valuable information and are good videos for teaching People about the game Your accent and the way you talk is also really good and understandable even for non-natives. Im surprised how you have only 500 subs
Wow thank you for such a wonderful, kind comment! Actually I finally started learning a second language seriously for the first time two years ago so i actually understand the struggle finally! Thats awesome to hear its great even for non natives. I like to try and speak clearly and not too fast so hopefully this will stay the same throughout the future. cheers
Man I'm so glad I found this video. I got bad FOMO today thinking about if I should make an alt account to make use out of the extra gold to turn it passively into currency. Then I thought about maybe playing market maker on the action house would be an alternative. I'll have to check out your flipping videos.
To help with the small shipment numbers. You only need 2 verisium bar the crew only requires 1 level 2 shipper on average you gain 30c worth of value for each set of 3 shipments. it only costs 100g to do the shipment.
Ya im wondering about this now. Several folks commented on this so ima copy and paste this reply a couple times： Ziggyd specifically talked about this in his final shipping vid and he specifically mentioned doing 5 bars and talked about how there is some minimum to get a nice return. I just rewatched it and maybe it wasnt totally clear if it should be like 2 or 5 so ya maybe you are right. I did do a tiny bit of testing and 5 also seemed good but it wasnt like a thorough test or anything so idk...
Good analysis. At the end of the day though, both routes are capped by outside constraints (can only farm at a max rate, can only place 10 orders at the currency exchange). So if you can farm gold fast enough, you don't have to choose and can just do both
Flipping does not add any value to people, it only taxes others' transactions. Shipping literally creates value for the PoE economy. I prefer to be 'value added' ;)
Cant tell if its sarcasm or not xD But just in case I may still do one final follow up video on this that i hope youll keep an open mind for if/when that happens haha
@@SarrenGamesflipping adds value by providing liquidity. If there were no flippers all your 1c scarabs and what not would be 10c each and available in much smaller quantities. And your sell orders would take days to fill
@@addiefoo4671 I don't think that is correct. Flipping always buys up the cheapest deals first and sets the offer at the highest price that may eventually sell. So it stretches the cost gap. The supply would be there regardless of the flipper, so it is not adding liquidity.
@@addiefoo4671That’s ONLY true if you’re converting currencies when you flip them. It’s blatantly false if you are just buying low and selling high of the same thing. In the first case, you may be charging either the convenience fee of bulking up small sales or you are charging a poor man’s fee of breaking bulk into smaller pieces. You might also be charging the convenience fee of simple conversions between different currencies. THIS style MAY provide liquidity where everyone wins. The second is absolutely predatory. It’s like people that buy out the inventory of sale items and put them back up for sale. I don’t really have a problem with taking advantage of inefficiencies in the market per se, but let’s call it what it is.
I had a rough estimate in my head of between 100-500 gold per chaos from flipping as a conservative range for its value. I think I need to find some better trades now.
Check out my 100 divines flip vid if you want to just get a general idea or if you wanna go the full distance i made a series of 3 vids leading up to that discussing imo basically every possible things there is to discuss on how to find good flips going forward.
Yes, porque no los dos? By the way, it’s 2 Verisium bars. If you’re sending more, it’s a waste. Not that you’ll run out, but it’s faster clicking for 2. Click ship button. Click twice in the bar for verisium. Do that three times. Set destination 3 times. Set sail 3 times. Very fast.
Ya im wondering about this now. Several folks commented on this so ima copy and paste this reply a couple times： Ziggyd specifically talked about this in his final shipping vid and he specifically mentioned doing 5 bars and talked about how there is some minimum to get a nice return. I just rewatched it and maybe it wasnt totally clear if it should be like 2 or 5 so ya maybe you are right. I did do a tiny bit of testing and 5 also seemed good but it wasnt like a thorough test or anything so idk...
I watched your Flipping Series yesterday while mapping and realized im sitting on lot of currency in gold, started flipping some items. I found 3 Items that make me 1 div for 10-20k Gold wich is absolutley fine for me since im farming t17 strongboxes and i make 40k+ per map. I rather go for items that fill and sell quick and have worse gold/d conversion
i am total away from 50 mill shipments ! i just fill the quotas from the towns i ship to and fill every not wanted crop to around 15k per sort and get DAILY , SAVE ~10-40div instead of every 5 days MAYBE 40D-150D and with bad luck only 10 divs 50Mill shipments are shit ! Send Consitantly 2mills-10mill
Keep up the nice comments ;) On a serious note though as much as i try my best to ignore all the comment section idiots it definitely does help to also have comments like these occasionally haha. Would be interested to see what you think of the vid i have planned for this wednesday if you stick around. either way cheers
Do you have any concrete data on the rollup breakpoint of div into shards in terms of shipment value? Ziggy does mention 10 mil as the point but anything more concise would very welcome
Nope im afraid i dont but i totally agree with you, if we wanted to be absolutely sure of the best shipments for gold efficiency we would have to still go a little deeper (like what ziggy did for the percentage change of getting a divine for example). But im just gonna go ahead and take a guess and say this probably wont happen but if you or anyone finds even more fine grained data on this kind of stuff definitely feel free to reply to this comment and ill take a look later
Giving then wheat a value of 2 gold per unit like you did felt pretty arbitrary, does it take in to account the cost of upgrading and running the town? the town has a huge upfront investment but once you have all the needed upgrades and all the sailors and farmers the running cost is pretty low, estimating the return of 1 shipment versus 5 or more makes a huge difference in gold efficiency. Flipping on the other hand has no entry cost but the gold efficiency is completely dependant on what trades you do and how much you want to wait, I flipped with a gold efficiency fluctuating between 20 and 50k gold per divine but I got 300 divines starting from 1 in about 5 days without leaving orders to fill when i was afk, i could have made more with a worst gold efficiency, or have completely different rates if i focused on a different set of trades, PS, idk what you traded but 3k per divine seems very efficient compared to anything i could come up with
Great points. Watch my flip vids or just the 100 divines flipped if you wanna see (I explained my thought process of how to get gold efficiency while flipping in the lead up tutorials vids tho). And nope as you pointed out I did not include the upfront cost of upgrading the city so that could also be taken into account if one wanted to be more accurate. Though since I think most of the value from shipping will come from shipments with mirror shards, probably the cost of upgrading should be relatively negligible in the scheme of things compared to the gold needed to actually generate the shipment values i think (In hindsight i should have also included some ship worker pay also but again if im not mistaken it should be insignificant compared to the 1ー2mil gold it should likely take for the crops/dust. And then finally all these extra considerations will all just make shipping worse value, thus making my conclusion of the video still stand xD
Woops i never actually replied at the 2 gold per wheat xD So ya, i didnt include the upfront cost but i did think about the actual upgrades themselves. It is DEFINITELY a rough estimate but i also took into consideration things like a google sheet floating around showing various workers gold efficiency as well as the generic farm upgrades increase to overall gold efficiency. So in the end i think 2 is a decent estimate even though im sure most people will think i just pulled it out of a hat totally arbitrarily xD but then if i actually explain it in detail then those same people will just complain that the video is too long haha
Gold is relatively easy to farm, so im assuming you'll hit a wall on how much flipping you can do before you have too much gold and need to waste it on shipping. Spending only 3k gold for a divine is going to be the best. but if i make 50k gold per map can i really say im making 16divs per map or close to 16*10map an hour = 160div/hour? Gold outside of shipping is basically free and is so minimal that its not worth optimizing. unless you need 10divs worth of jewelers orb to roll 6 off colored sockets in your chest piece. cough*** even a simple alc and go strat gives 10-20k gold. just play an hour a day for 10 days and boom you got your shipment. if you can do t16 juiced rogue exiles just do 7 maps a day ( if i even bother to play) then cash it in every 8-10 days.
is gold cost of shippers' wages (in addition to farmers) accounted for ? also re: the assumption of dust = free ; even if you farm uniques for dust efficiently, it takes gold to disenchant, no ? is this factored in ?
Nope i thought maybe i should go back and discuss the wages, it was kind of an oversight, but as i mentioned in another reply to another comment、 at the end of the day i dont think the wages will significantly impact the end result （Flipping is better)。And re the dust = free, i decided to basically just essentially give a range and if one really wants to they can calculate their own gold efficiency for their dust generation and then follow the same steps i show to come up with their final gold efficiency numbers。Hope that makes sense
People keep saying that 50 mil shipments are op, but this is not guaranteed profit. You can get bad rng or you can get your shipment confiscated. But if you flip gold and send small shipments worth of 1 div you get consistent good returns.
I nuked my currency by trying to gamba up to a mirror plus fee for my quiver... Failed hard now we are back to flipping and shipping hence the reason im here 😂 I have been doing 200k ish shipments. So 1111 on each crop and then 111111 dust. I get pretty much a divine every other shipment and i only send to Ngakanu for tattoos. Any ramako or ngamahu tattoo i get that is not the expensive one i vendor 3 to 1 until cant no more.
Funny story i think im actually gonna do a just chatting style video on the beltonpoe situation that just happened, dunno if you are familiar with that or not, and was thinking of even discussing things like the risk potential of trying to create mirror tier items （With some math/probability discussion) Since i feel like part of the reason the whole fiasco happened this league with him may have been related to failing certain crafts etc etc. Anyways, ya if there was good data somewhere on various different shipment values i could conceivably do one final followup seeing if there are better gold efficiency shipments that could compete w flipping on the exchange but idk. In the end i think ziggyds take of ~700K ish or nearing max shipments are prolly the two best cuz of the rollup mechanics he discusses
Ya im wondering about this now. Several folks commented on this so ima copy and paste this reply a couple times： Ziggyd specifically talked about this in his final shipping vid and he specifically mentioned doing 5 bars and talked about how there is some minimum to get a nice return. I just rewatched it and maybe it wasnt totally clear if it should be like 2 or 5 so ya maybe you are right. I did do a tiny bit of testing and 5 also seemed good but it wasnt like a thorough test or anything so idk...
@@NoMoreMrNextYear Ya it was a tactic found on reddit about 2 weeks before Ziggy mentioned it. I was doing it myself until my pc broke so that's in shop now. Hopefully be back for Gauntlet.
Ya i did think about this too actually and i agree that that is definitely possible but might be impossible to say for sure. If you look at the data there are definitely 0 mirror shard rows and ziggyd did say its basically between 2ー3 per shipment so idk.
I preferred small shipments to the kauri place near ribon fel for staked decks and just flogging those for divines.
I think folks have been saying the scarab shipment plus runes is a bit better but since its just a lot of extra clicking tbh maybe ill swap to stacked decks xD
I checked your Channel, your videos contain valuable information and are good videos for teaching People about the game
Your accent and the way you talk is also really good and understandable even for non-natives. Im surprised how you have only 500 subs
Wow thank you for such a wonderful, kind comment! Actually I finally started learning a second language seriously for the first time two years ago so i actually understand the struggle finally! Thats awesome to hear its great even for non natives. I like to try and speak clearly and not too fast so hopefully this will stay the same throughout the future. cheers
Man I'm so glad I found this video. I got bad FOMO today thinking about if I should make an alt account to make use out of the extra gold to turn it passively into currency. Then I thought about maybe playing market maker on the action house would be an alternative. I'll have to check out your flipping videos.
Awesome. Im still mostly able to keep up with reading comments at this point so feel free to let me know what you think if you do watch em. Cheers
To help with the small shipment numbers.
You only need 2 verisium bar
the crew only requires 1 level 2 shipper
on average you gain 30c worth of value for each set of 3 shipments.
it only costs 100g to do the shipment.
Ya im wondering about this now. Several folks commented on this so ima copy and paste this reply a couple times： Ziggyd specifically talked about this in his final shipping vid and he specifically mentioned doing 5 bars and talked about how there is some minimum to get a nice return. I just rewatched it and maybe it wasnt totally clear if it should be like 2 or 5 so ya maybe you are right. I did do a tiny bit of testing and 5 also seemed good but it wasnt like a thorough test or anything so idk...
Good analysis. At the end of the day though, both routes are capped by outside constraints (can only farm at a max rate, can only place 10 orders at the currency exchange). So if you can farm gold fast enough, you don't have to choose and can just do both
True. Good point.
Flipping does not add any value to people, it only taxes others' transactions. Shipping literally creates value for the PoE economy. I prefer to be 'value added' ;)
Cant tell if its sarcasm or not xD But just in case I may still do one final follow up video on this that i hope youll keep an open mind for if/when that happens haha
@@NoMoreMrNextYear certainly the video itself is huge value added! 😀
@@SarrenGamesflipping adds value by providing liquidity. If there were no flippers all your 1c scarabs and what not would be 10c each and available in much smaller quantities. And your sell orders would take days to fill
@@addiefoo4671 I don't think that is correct. Flipping always buys up the cheapest deals first and sets the offer at the highest price that may eventually sell. So it stretches the cost gap. The supply would be there regardless of the flipper, so it is not adding liquidity.
@@addiefoo4671That’s ONLY true if you’re converting currencies when you flip them. It’s blatantly false if you are just buying low and selling high of the same thing.
In the first case, you may be charging either the convenience fee of bulking up small sales or you are charging a poor man’s fee of breaking bulk into smaller pieces. You might also be charging the convenience fee of simple conversions between different currencies. THIS style MAY provide liquidity where everyone wins. The second is absolutely predatory. It’s like people that buy out the inventory of sale items and put them back up for sale.
I don’t really have a problem with taking advantage of inefficiencies in the market per se, but let’s call it what it is.
I had a rough estimate in my head of between 100-500 gold per chaos from flipping as a conservative range for its value. I think I need to find some better trades now.
Check out my 100 divines flip vid if you want to just get a general idea or if you wanna go the full distance i made a series of 3 vids leading up to that discussing imo basically every possible things there is to discuss on how to find good flips going forward.
Yes, porque no los dos?
By the way, it’s 2 Verisium bars. If you’re sending more, it’s a waste. Not that you’ll run out, but it’s faster clicking for 2. Click ship button. Click twice in the bar for verisium. Do that three times. Set destination 3 times. Set sail 3 times. Very fast.
Ya im wondering about this now. Several folks commented on this so ima copy and paste this reply a couple times： Ziggyd specifically talked about this in his final shipping vid and he specifically mentioned doing 5 bars and talked about how there is some minimum to get a nice return. I just rewatched it and maybe it wasnt totally clear if it should be like 2 or 5 so ya maybe you are right. I did do a tiny bit of testing and 5 also seemed good but it wasnt like a thorough test or anything so idk...
I watched your Flipping Series yesterday while mapping and realized im sitting on lot of currency in gold, started flipping some items. I found 3 Items that make me 1 div for 10-20k Gold wich is absolutley fine for me since im farming t17 strongboxes and i make 40k+ per map. I rather go for items that fill and sell quick and have worse gold/d conversion
Fantastic
You forgot to factor in the recruitment cost to be able to send 50mil shipments which can also end up in a huge gold investment pending on rng.
i am total away from 50 mill shipments ! i just fill the quotas from the towns i ship to and fill every not wanted crop to around 15k per sort and get DAILY , SAVE ~10-40div instead of every 5 days MAYBE 40D-150D and with bad luck only 10 divs
50Mill shipments are shit ! Send Consitantly 2mills-10mill
Nice video keep up the good content
Keep up the nice comments ;) On a serious note though as much as i try my best to ignore all the comment section idiots it definitely does help to also have comments like these occasionally haha. Would be interested to see what you think of the vid i have planned for this wednesday if you stick around. either way cheers
Does the choice of boat have any difference on returns?
Do you have any concrete data on the rollup breakpoint of div into shards in terms of shipment value? Ziggy does mention 10 mil as the point but anything more concise would very welcome
Nope im afraid i dont but i totally agree with you, if we wanted to be absolutely sure of the best shipments for gold efficiency we would have to still go a little deeper (like what ziggy did for the percentage change of getting a divine for example). But im just gonna go ahead and take a guess and say this probably wont happen but if you or anyone finds even more fine grained data on this kind of stuff definitely feel free to reply to this comment and ill take a look later
Giving then wheat a value of 2 gold per unit like you did felt pretty arbitrary, does it take in to account the cost of upgrading and running the town? the town has a huge upfront investment but once you have all the needed upgrades and all the sailors and farmers the running cost is pretty low, estimating the return of 1 shipment versus 5 or more makes a huge difference in gold efficiency.
Flipping on the other hand has no entry cost but the gold efficiency is completely dependant on what trades you do and how much you want to wait, I flipped with a gold efficiency fluctuating between 20 and 50k gold per divine but I got 300 divines starting from 1 in about 5 days without leaving orders to fill when i was afk, i could have made more with a worst gold efficiency, or have completely different rates if i focused on a different set of trades,
PS, idk what you traded but 3k per divine seems very efficient compared to anything i could come up with
Great points. Watch my flip vids or just the 100 divines flipped if you wanna see (I explained my thought process of how to get gold efficiency while flipping in the lead up tutorials vids tho). And nope as you pointed out I did not include the upfront cost of upgrading the city so that could also be taken into account if one wanted to be more accurate. Though since I think most of the value from shipping will come from shipments with mirror shards, probably the cost of upgrading should be relatively negligible in the scheme of things compared to the gold needed to actually generate the shipment values i think (In hindsight i should have also included some ship worker pay also but again if im not mistaken it should be insignificant compared to the 1ー2mil gold it should likely take for the crops/dust. And then finally all these extra considerations will all just make shipping worse value, thus making my conclusion of the video still stand xD
Woops i never actually replied at the 2 gold per wheat xD So ya, i didnt include the upfront cost but i did think about the actual upgrades themselves. It is DEFINITELY a rough estimate but i also took into consideration things like a google sheet floating around showing various workers gold efficiency as well as the generic farm upgrades increase to overall gold efficiency. So in the end i think 2 is a decent estimate even though im sure most people will think i just pulled it out of a hat totally arbitrarily xD but then if i actually explain it in detail then those same people will just complain that the video is too long haha
２Wheat per gold*
No matter the content of the league, it's always spreadsheet league with PoE
Hahahaha. Right!?
Gold is relatively easy to farm, so im assuming you'll hit a wall on how much flipping you can do before you have too much gold and need to waste it on shipping. Spending only 3k gold for a divine is going to be the best. but if i make 50k gold per map can i really say im making 16divs per map or close to 16*10map an hour = 160div/hour? Gold outside of shipping is basically free and is so minimal that its not worth optimizing. unless you need 10divs worth of jewelers orb to roll 6 off colored sockets in your chest piece. cough***
even a simple alc and go strat gives 10-20k gold. just play an hour a day for 10 days and boom you got your shipment. if you can do t16 juiced rogue exiles just do 7 maps a day ( if i even bother to play) then cash it in every 8-10 days.
good video, however i will not be a dirty flipper
is gold cost of shippers' wages (in addition to farmers) accounted for ?
also re: the assumption of dust = free ; even if you farm uniques for dust efficiently, it takes gold to disenchant, no ? is this factored in ?
Nope i thought maybe i should go back and discuss the wages, it was kind of an oversight, but as i mentioned in another reply to another comment、 at the end of the day i dont think the wages will significantly impact the end result （Flipping is better)。And re the dust = free, i decided to basically just essentially give a range and if one really wants to they can calculate their own gold efficiency for their dust generation and then follow the same steps i show to come up with their final gold efficiency numbers。Hope that makes sense
holy fucking s... this spreadsheet, man
People keep saying that 50 mil shipments are op, but this is not guaranteed profit. You can get bad rng or you can get your shipment confiscated.
But if you flip gold and send small shipments worth of 1 div you get consistent good returns.
YOu can send lv 2 single manned ships with 2 bars on them and get 3 scarabs and 2 runes while waiting for the big one.
I nuked my currency by trying to gamba up to a mirror plus fee for my quiver... Failed hard now we are back to flipping and shipping hence the reason im here 😂
I have been doing 200k ish shipments.
So 1111 on each crop and then 111111 dust. I get pretty much a divine every other shipment and i only send to Ngakanu for tattoos. Any ramako or ngamahu tattoo i get that is not the expensive one i vendor 3 to 1 until cant no more.
Funny story i think im actually gonna do a just chatting style video on the beltonpoe situation that just happened, dunno if you are familiar with that or not, and was thinking of even discussing things like the risk potential of trying to create mirror tier items （With some math/probability discussion) Since i feel like part of the reason the whole fiasco happened this league with him may have been related to failing certain crafts etc etc. Anyways, ya if there was good data somewhere on various different shipment values i could conceivably do one final followup seeing if there are better gold efficiency shipments that could compete w flipping on the exchange but idk. In the end i think ziggyds take of ~700K ish or nearing max shipments are prolly the two best cuz of the rollup mechanics he discusses
The bar strategy is 2 bars not 5 XD
Ya im wondering about this now. Several folks commented on this so ima copy and paste this reply a couple times： Ziggyd specifically talked about this in his final shipping vid and he specifically mentioned doing 5 bars and talked about how there is some minimum to get a nice return. I just rewatched it and maybe it wasnt totally clear if it should be like 2 or 5 so ya maybe you are right. I did do a tiny bit of testing and 5 also seemed good but it wasnt like a thorough test or anything so idk...
@@NoMoreMrNextYear Ya it was a tactic found on reddit about 2 weeks before Ziggy mentioned it. I was doing it myself until my pc broke so that's in shop now. Hopefully be back for Gauntlet.
Only people with a lot of of value sent in their data so the result are surely skewed
Ya i did think about this too actually and i agree that that is definitely possible but might be impossible to say for sure. If you look at the data there are definitely 0 mirror shard rows and ziggyd did say its basically between 2ー3 per shipment so idk.
White Reddit, not sane exile?
Haha im still sane... probably because i never spend any time on the poe reddit xD
Don't reveal secret strat bro