The KEY Idea To The BEST Damage In PoE 2 / 1

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 41

  • @zeromeaning
    @zeromeaning 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Great video, I would say it is the best I've seen as better understanding the principles behind the optimization process feels way better than trying to optimize by eye without understanding the principles.

  • @Max-qd2lf
    @Max-qd2lf 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Wrong. This not a guide to just POE but actually a guide to optimize almost every thing and irl. Had a great timse watching a math refresher.. Thanks.

    • @satibel
      @satibel 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      some unemployed people knowing more about stock market than people actually working in that field because they're just trying to make money in poe.

  • @warcheddar4163
    @warcheddar4163 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Great video! while i already had a grasp on what you covered here, you broke it down super well, so ty.

  • @mckaymusicTV
    @mckaymusicTV 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Subscribed thanks for the info man! Really well spoken and not a useless ms paint “guide” finally.

  • @noresize
    @noresize 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    This is by far the best explanation anyone has ever given on increased damage

  • @limpbiskuit7129
    @limpbiskuit7129 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Great video !
    Has a complement, to find the best damage/speed points ratio (say you have n points to spend), you can take the maximum of the function d=2000*(1+0.10*p)*(1+0.05(n-p)) and it will output how many point you have to place in damage, and the remaining points will be for speed.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yep good point that speed like MS etc also needs to be considered! I grew up listening to and loving limp biscuit btw xD

  • @jesseblack1194
    @jesseblack1194 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Thanks for this!

  • @madhatten5123
    @madhatten5123 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Really great way to explain additive damage. Without PoB I’m kind of useless so I’m a little worried about PoE 2 until PoB 2 is ready. I wish you would’ve went into multiplicative damage as well. Great video even with 4k hours in PoE a learned some stuff.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Thanks for the awesome comment. Maybe i will go into that in a future vid for sure! For now, to me, a lot of *more* dmg buffs effectively operate 'in a bubble'(in a vacuum?). For example, the main way to get them is really just support gems, and most chars will have a 6L, so you can basically just confine that specific problem to 'what is the best 6L setup for more multipliers i can get.' of course if one of them is an added damage gem then suddenly ur back to what i talked about here xD its nice and complicated and thats why we enjoy it ;) Ill prolly make more followups to this and might specifically talk about this so thanks for the idea!

    • @madhatten5123
      @madhatten5123 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @ no problem man. I am excited to get a fresh shot at build creation in PoE 2. Can’t wait to see what kind of informative video you come up with next. GGs

  • @davidschwab7556
    @davidschwab7556 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    well that's worth my sub. Thanks!

  • @Yoyoda_del_umbra
    @Yoyoda_del_umbra 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Thank you !!

  • @dameonwite4794
    @dameonwite4794 12 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Farming gold for morning currency exchange orders before work. New Nex video drops at the perfect time.

  • @sombrego2260
    @sombrego2260 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Very good video to explain something that is basic but not intuitive at all to begin with.
    My only wish is that you would have gone a step further and sort of list the actual values specifically in PoE to look for to increase damage (you sort of do it rapidly at the end of the video but I don't know how helpful it would be to someone who barely understood the video to begin with if that makes sense).
    For example critical chance and critical damage are stats that are often quite hard to know if they are worth or not because they are %chance based and that kind of approach can help a lot.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Ya great point and great example with Crit chance and Crit damage. To me they operate essentialy the same except they are gonna be sorta more 'swingy' and instead of getting an exact number of one point = x% dmg increase, you would have to think like the 'expected value' type gain, i.e. if crits deal 2x damage and you gain 50% crit chance then half time you deal 1x dmg and half time you deal 2x dmg so effectively a 50% dmg increase. But, i think a simplification can be made that if u plan to go to 100% crit (like me) then it just becomes exactly the same as what i talked about here where now you are just scaling another axis of crit dmg that operates exactly the same. Maybe ill talk more about it in a future vid and ya its def complicated which is why i love poe xD Cheers

  • @mckaymusicTV
    @mckaymusicTV 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I would really like to see this same concept but with the new ailments. Especially poison because that’s what I’ll be playing 😅

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Im going into poe2 totally blind so itll be a while til i could make a vid like that but ill certainly think about it in the future :) Cheers

  • @divinityai
    @divinityai 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    1:03 obviosly you take notable Coldheated calculation instead of small node. Also you got your timeless jewel bonus too.
    Also you will have like 100% from weapon, so actually %damage would be lower value then cast speed.
    And on whole video - you don't take on account, for example, cast or attack speed just can feel nice and you can do attack before mobs, which is much better than slower attack speed. Or your cast is high enough so your mana wouldn't be regening etc etc. So yeah, only accounting on damage whole video summed up: do different scalings so you could get less diminishing returns.

  • @reneindlekofer1946
    @reneindlekofer1946 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    probably use the Node Power Function in POB first for a general Overview to sort out whats definetly not worth taking or what to concider more

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  11 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Ya i wanted to talk about this as well and it was the very next point idve added but maybe ill do a followup down the road. Though if one understands the main point here then it explains why the colors will be the way they are and help plan the pathing based on the colors (which will change per point taken). if i do a followup i might even discuss some algorithmic type stuff for overall optimality

  • @satibel
    @satibel 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    something big that isn't always in pob but matters a lot in practice is breakpoints and effective dps (aka damage uptime)
    tl;dr: pob isn't always correct even if the math is, so play your build, or at least try what you want to do before fully investing.
    as a rule of thumb, dot builds don't need as much dps as self cast/attack builds, ranged needs less damage than melee, same for tanky builds vs glass cannon.
    damage on a cooldown has better uptime than free damage in most cases. (since it's still recharging while you aren't attacking)
    conditional buffs are conditional, and you can't always count as having all of them up at the same time (that's often a pob warrior sin, yes in pob I have 40 different buffs that all give 10% more damage, and get 45M dps, but when you play it, in practice you almost always have only 10 up at the same time and get 2.5M dps.)
    if you overkill/over defend that investment is useless even if number go up.
    1) breakpoints, if you have 1s per attack, 1000 damage on your attack, and monsters have 3000 hp, you need 3 hits to kill a monster, so getting 25% more damage seems like it would do 25% more damage, but in reality you just do 3750 damage and still need to do 3 hits on a monster, so a 5% attack speed would be better (this is exaggerated for clarity)
    better applicable example is a boss's biggest attack dealing 6000 damage, you just need 6001 effective hp to survive, more increases in ehp are way less effective than the maths would suggest, and going from 6000 to 6001 hp is a 0.016% increase, but it's a huge boost in actual survivability.
    a practical example is glancing blows, you go from taking no damage 30% of the time to 65% damage 60% of the time, maths suggest this is fully negative. however there's 2 things to consider:
    1) you would die when taking 65% of the damage, glancing blows is bad
    2) you wouldn't die when taking 65% of the damage, but would when taking regular damage, glancing blows is actually better for survivability despite taking more damage on average (especially in poe 2 where death deletes the maps).
    caps are another type of breakpoint, if the highest hp enemy has 2billion ehp, any damage over that is lost (and in the case of poe overflows, and you will end up dealing less damage)
    2) uptime/effective dps. how well you can apply your damage, this is both a skill and build thing.
    if you have let's say 10M target dummy (i.e. pob) dps, it can be very different things, you could have 10 attacks per second that each deal 1M, or one attack every 4 seconds that takes half a second to cast and deals 40M. in theory those are the same, in practice you have to dodge, so depending on the boss, either could be better, if you only have a 400ms window to attack every second, your effective dps on the 40M attack is actually 0 because you can never hit. however if you have a 1s window every 4s, the 10x1M will deal it's 10M dps only a quarter of the time, so the effective dps is 2.5M
    an example of a skill that is apparently not damage but actually a good damage increase is jade skin, instead of taking 1-2s moving in and out of a boss' aoe attack you can continue attacking to the last second and turn into jade to tank the hit then immediately go back to attacking. that is not a number increase, but in practice it can be a significant increase in damage.
    tankiness goes into effective dps, if you can afford to take hits, you don't have to stop damage.
    obviously uptime is capped at 1, but in most cases it is lower.
    that's why you end up with a melee build with 10M dps, a ranged attack/self cast build with 5M and an automated/dot build with 1M dps feeling relatively similar and having similar kill times.
    where skill comes in is that you can get as close as possible to the attacks without getting hit, you can minimize your downtime. usually when you don't know a fight you have terrible uptime, while a veteran will have almost as good as they can get, and that is compounding, because you deal more damage, you can afford to use more resources and take hits which you would otherwise want to dodge.
    coverage is also part of effective dps, a single target skill with 10 attacks per second and 10M dps will still take 2 seconds to kill 20 monsters with 1M hp, while a sufficient aoe that deals 1M and hits once a second will get rid of them in 1s
    another axis is that a 500k dps dot that lasts 4s will still take 1 hit to kill a 2M hp monster, while a 2M dps attack that hits 2 times a second will take 2 hits, so the dot might actually clear faster.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Great comment as per usual. Funny enough breakpoints was probably the final thing i decided to not include in the video for time consideration and wanted to discuss as a follow up and your write up is pretty much word for word what i was planning on discussing in the future. Maybe i should just use your write up now instead of coming up with it from scratch? xD I will for sure discuss it specifically in the future and another thing i was envisioning was to basically come up with like a specific ideal hit damage number for end game. BUT, the thing is, as soon as we define a number like that then one thing changes like maybe we are delving or something and instantly the breakpoint doesnt exist any more. so the more i think about it the more im not sure if its worth doing, but if you are sticking in the same type of content then definitely. and the other examples you gave were great too thanks for sharing!

    • @satibel
      @satibel 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@NoMoreMrNextYear the main use of breakpoints is for cdr-based and high attack speed builds, where server ticks come into play, there's one tick every 30ms, so anything not in the bucket isn't counted, same for other increases that are discrete, like the adorned having specific values at which some stats increase.
      but for generic stats where it's mostly relevant is for the pinnacle boss which will not have mods, and for non boss mapping where you hit diminishing returns from offense and defense, if your burst is enough to one hit most rares and your clear is enough to one hit white, you gain very little income from investing in damage, as most of your time is spent running and looting.
      though yeah breakpoints are usually a very endgame min-maxing thing, most things are usually fine enough for the discreteness to be unnoticable (the main thing you could notice early is if your burst is enough to one hit a rare with no damage reduction mods or not, if you can, you might want to spec into damage that is not affected by most DR even if it's less effective generally, while if you can't, you'd want to either go into slightly more damage or time reduction between bursts, like dropping the 20% more damage with 8s cd and using your burst skill twice, or swapping another damage for second wind.)

    • @satibel
      @satibel 10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@NoMoreMrNextYear there's also the discreteness of skill points, how much value each point gives you is far from linear since they are grouped by wheels, so if you were to graph it properly it would probably be a lot more stair shaped.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  8 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yep agree w everything you said totally and i was also thinking of mentioning and including the specific example of the one shotting breakpoint when going through the campaign for e.g. And ya ultimately all these things i think just kind of change the shape of the function you are maximizing. I put out prolly my final vid on this type of topic today and would be curious to hear your thoughts on it as well if you end up checking it out. And as a last comment, one of the things im mulling over now is at some point creating a community like a discord or whatever makes sense, that would be kind of an invite only community for very high level players and if/when i some day announce and create it would definitely be interested to have you in there

  • @Deffu
    @Deffu 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Is this BigDucks 2nd channel?

  • @horyzons91
    @horyzons91 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Actual learning in poe and not a guide that gives you 0 insight and alot of useless knowledge. Thx

  • @Max-qd2lf
    @Max-qd2lf 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    You should do more of this stuff in the future rather than just sharing what the best build is.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Ya i enjoy this kind of stuff and explaining these types of things and planned on making similar style stuff, and now getting lots of positive feedback so definitely will plan to do more along these lines. Thanks for the comments!

  • @Ubi_Red
    @Ubi_Red 11 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Long story short, u want ‘more’ damage

  • @JoseValdeolivar
    @JoseValdeolivar 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Me thinks big hammer big damage.

  • @DusanFajler
    @DusanFajler 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    PoB Virgin. Wolfram Alpha Chad

  • @alancode2147
    @alancode2147 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Good video, but mathematically inaccurate. The law of diminished marginal returns doesn't apply to linear graphs such as the ones you present. The reason you're seeing diminished values is because you're comparing them to arbitrary values (the previous results instead of the original value). This isn't how you apply the law of diminished marginal returns correctly. You can't compare the results after 5 points to the original value, then compare 10 points to the resulting 5 point total value, you have to compare 10 points to the original value as well and you'll see there's no diminishing return value there. It's not until you have a formula that includes all the different multiplicative factors (when you have n & s variables instead of a single variable) that you'll see diminished marginal returns because your formula will no longer be linear. Again, the end part is great and good for people to understand, but your explanation of the law of diminished marginal returns in the first half of the video is wrong.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      The video is accurate. I usually dont take the bait on comments like this but i suppose i will this time since it seems to be in good faith i guess. The first for e.g. point into 10% increased damage gives a 10% buff to your DPS 'at the margin.' The more points you take, the less of a DPS buff you are getting. The numerical value gained is constant, but the marginal buff to your actual DPS you are dealing keeps going down with every point you take (which is exactly what i said). If this isnt diminishing marginal returns then i dont know what is. Only way i couldve made it more crystal clear would be to add yet another plot for what i was explaining in word (plot the relative DPS gain per point spent, which will go up and steadily flatten into a straight line).

    • @alancode2147
      @alancode2147 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @NoMoreMrNextYear I'm being sincere, but yes you don't know what marginal diminished returns is if you believe that is the case. Look it up, I promise you that law never applies to linear equations. Again, the last half of the video is spot on, but your understanding of how to apply that law is mathematically inaccurate as it doesn't apply in your first half like you are explaining it. I don't want to distract from the value of the video, the second half is quality work. Your explanation with examples at the beginning is just wrong and doesn't apply.

    • @NoMoreMrNextYear
      @NoMoreMrNextYear  10 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Alright. But if you read what im writing and listen to what i say in the video im talking specifically about the DPS % Gain per point spent. This is why i specifically talk about this exact precise thing in the video, saying that there is a difference between the two functions. Raw damage as a function of points spent increases linearly. If we stop there, as i said exactly in the video, then we might think everything is totally fine (and IMO this is where players get stuck and get confused as to why their damage is not ACTUALLY increasing by the number written on the point they are taking. "Hey i took a 12% dmg inc node but my damage barely went up" for e.g.) The % Gain to your DPS per point spent, on the other hand, is hit by diminishing marginal returns, and if plotted is not a linear function. I think i basically have already said all this twice now and not really any other way for me to word it so ima have to stop there on this point but thank you for engaging in respectful debate.

    • @alancode2147
      @alancode2147 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @NoMoreMrNextYear yea no worries mate 👍