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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2024
- "We need to call Modi's India a modern Indian fascism": Alpa Shah, Professor of Social Anthropology, LSE to Karan Thapar for The Wire.
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One of British academias most highly regarded anthropologists has said “we need to call Modi’s India a modern Indian fascism”. Alpa Shah says: “Indian fascism may not be of the classic kind, whatever that is, but it’s fascism nevertheless.”
In a 40-minute interview to Karan Thapar for The Wire, to mark the launch of her book, ‘The Incarcerations: Bhima Koregaon and the Search for Democracy in India’, Alpa Shah, who is presently Professor of Anthropology at the London School of Economics but has just been announced as the new Professor of Social Anthropology at Oxford University and a fellow of All Souls College, identified seven key characteristics of fascism each of which, it seems, applies almost fully to India under Narendra Modi. She, therefore, argues that terms like “majoritarianism or ethnic democracy or cultural nationalism” do not “convey the gravity of threat to democracy under way in India”.
The seven criteria of fascism that Prof. Shah identified are the creation of a mythic past; the belief in a super human race; the exclusion of certain people who are treated as “enemies”; mobs on the street; the curtailment of dissent; the nexus between government, business and corporations; and the control of institutions.
However, Prof. Shah was reluctant to say how much of the responsibility and blame for this lies with Narendra Modi himself or whether India would have reached this point if he had not become Prime Minister in 2014. Instead she maintained “we are all complicit” i.e. the people, the institutions, the organizations, the wider Sangh Parivar, etc.
I am only giving you what I believe is the headline in this interview. However, it begins with a lengthy discussion of the Bhima Koregaon case, which Prof. Shah believes “is a bellwether for the collapse of democracy in India”. The first 15 minutes of the interview are devoted to a discussion about the Bhima Koregaon case and how it reflects the deeper intricate reality of India and also how the judiciary and media failed to defend the BK-16.
This is followed by a discussion about what Prof. Shah calls “the crisis of Indian democracy” and what she considers the reality of India, including a discussion about the treatment of Muslims. The third part of the interview is about her belief that India under Narendra Modi is “a modern Indian fascism”.
Paradoxically, the interview ends on a note of hope. Prof. Shah believes “the seeds of democracy will be preserved within fascism” and one day we will have the right conditions for them to flourish. She argues that these seeds of hope will survive a third Modi victory, if that is the result of the elections that began this morning. She agrees no matter how deep and dark the night there will be sunlight eventually.
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I think Mr. Thapar really needs to let Prof Shah speak without interruption.
There is no hope.
Majority of us Indians just don’t seem to be interested in the affairs of the country. We don’t care if there is a BJP or Congress government as long as there is someone to take care of running the country - whichever way the government wants. Forget having a choice, 40% of us don’t bother to even vote. And unless this mentality changes, I see no hope.
The last time some Indians from across the nation got involved in the affairs of the county was in 2011 when the anti-corruption movement was started when a Maharashtra based activist, Anna Hazare, began a hunger strike at the Jantar Mantar in New Delhi, While the movement brought him centre-stage, it also brought forward a few new leaders like Arvind Kejriwal, Kiran Bedi, Yogendra Yadav, Kumar Vishwas, etc. The movement aimed to alleviate corruption in the Indian government through introduction of the Jan Lokpal Bill. The movement was supported by the likes of Ramdev Baba. The Indian media covered the activities of the movement without any fear or bias. And RSS waited on the sidelines to pounce on political opportunity and got handsomely rewarded.
Today, Anna Hazare is in deep slumber. Arvind Kejriwal became a politician and launched a political party. Kiran Bedi joined the governing dispensation. The Media and Ramdev Baba unabashedly support the governing dispensation to protect their business interests. And RSS is the governing dispensation.
What changed after this anti-corruption movement? Did it meet its objective? Yes, the Jan Lokpal bill was passed by Indian parliament and came into effect in 2014. Did corruption stop? A big NO. According to a 2023 report, the Lokpal, or anti-corruption ombudsman, has not prosecuted anyone accused of graft yet, and its performance is not satisfactory. So, was it a conspiracy of some sort to discredit the then ruling dispensation and create a narrative to influence the minds of gullible public. Because the corruption charges have been dismissed despite a political adversary being in power since. Rightly or wrongly, the government was brought on its knees and went into paralysis. This aided the various narratives of the adversaries. There was a change of government with the BJP promising “Aacche Din”.
10 years down the line, the “Aacche Din” is still a distant dream. India is being dubbed an autocracy. Mainstream media is an extension of the BJP propaganda. They have no balls to question the government. Public institutions have been leashed by government. Any form of descent is crushed by government. But there is another aspect of the society which is concerning - while for some, Prime Minister Modi has created an image of being an autocrat, for others, he is a result-oriented performer, and they love his being an autocrat. For them, soft leaders cannot bring change. Mind you, his followers, also called Bhakts, account for nearly 50% of the population. And they believe in voting.
So, when voting percentage is less, Bhakts and their God wins. This is not 2004. There were no bhakts and Shri Vajpayee was not God. Bhakts and God exist in 2024, like it or not.
The only way i see is to go out of the country. It is not that I don't love my country or I don't want to do something for country but the path we are heading to is not my country. My best friend is a Muslim and his house was buldozed and people have become so insensitive that they were celebrating a human misery. we tried filling a court case but the process is just too slow and even lower courts has been effected by this ideology.. Now i am being told this is the hindu way should wear this as hindu and not only that being told whom should i be friend from my relatives and family... It is really sad what's happening in this country. And i think people have passed the level of comming back to consciousness. Now not even death of their family members are bothering them.. i lost both my grandparents in covid all because of horrible covid management by bjp and same was the case for many during covid but it seems like they have forgotten all of this...
You can't be sane in society of mads.. So i have decided to move out. It is sad but i can't be here and see what is happening.
This is exactly the reason I moved out too 6 months ago
Where is autocratic when their is election commission,all states have full autonomy on laws and order and of any party has majority with highest numbers under laws of the land, democratic principles is it called autocratic as even Rajiv Gandhi got 400 once so certain people in India are losing their sense.And constantly attacking RSS is total irresponsible as this organisation has Hindu and Muslim members and protecting our Sanatan dharma.Look at all Islamic countries with no democracy,no secularism, persecution of minorities like in Afghanistan Pakistan and Bangladesh with burning of Hindu temples.So why people are losing sense when India has robust democracy unlike any islamic countries and look them with internal religious conflicts.India today is coming to 3rd economy power.And party is voted for delivery and development as we have seen Modi has transformed India with massive infrastructure, welfare schemes and 11 millions toilets and Nehru Gandhi dynasty even failed on toilets.So I have seen people do not appreciate developments and progress and delivery because of personal idelogy.If another religion was said that it's like Dengue malaria like Stalins have done it would be riots but Hindus are tolerant people and left is digging their own graves with destructive ideologies and frequently criticizing Sanatan dharma for appesement policy.Look at Ram Mandir issue which was in Hearts of Hindus for 500 years was demonised by left parties for appesement policies.So how long Hindus will tolerate ideologies if degrading majority religion just for the sake of appesement policy when all the welfare schemes and education schemes are for all the communities irrespective of religions so why Hindus are publicly demonised.Which leader has developed India to this extent when Congress even didn't deliver toilets.Who resolved Ram Mandir issue, Tripal talak, Kashmir issue, made our armed forces to be recon with.India under Modi has built good relationships with all Arab countries, and others and Now India stands tall with massive infrastructure, welfare schemes, modernity, more and more metros, more Airports, housing for poor, expressways, science and technology, Digital.So certain people have no respect for our great nation when our religion is played by appeser parties.
Brilliant. Read somewhere week minds yearn powerful rulers. It would be dishonest to deny most of us has attitude -take care of thing and let me just go to work, that's why there was report showing most of our population do support some variant of autocracy.
😂
Never thought back in 2014, this is how it will pan out. From euphoria, it’s now uneasiness and underlying fear…how did we let this happen
It's in ur head, everything is perfectly fine. Wait till 2030 we india will be in much better place.
2014 india voted a man to power who only achievement was 2002 massacre.
Everything's not fine...no need to wait for 2030,Manipur in turmoil is the present picture
Manipur is fine. When was the last time you read the papers
@@bps591 your idea of govt is like heaven, things happen irrespective of bjp .
Karan.. your sincere efforts to retain democracy in India... is truly praiseworthy.. It's really the need of the hour
Being a poor Dalit, One thing I understood very late in life is that Babasaheb 's constitution and democracy will remain in India only
If
All Dalits get educated
And
non-Muslims in majority.
For these reasons I and my family voted for the BJP for the first time today.👍🏽👍🏽..
@@user-fz7qr2ng7h "voted for" ??? How very misleading and confusing... You have stated all the reasons why none (you including) should vote for BJP and then say "voted for BJP"! What an apparent contradiction!!!
karan has no where to go and thewire loves people who are obssessed with atrocity literature abt BJP's rule...which is what left opinion has become these days
Rightly said. FR. STAN SWAMY was incarcerated. His blood spills from those in judiciary n media n police responsible for his death.
why india voters are supporting(voting) for fascism,people became fascist,so people are supporting fascist party??
@@sharankumar4396 What you mean?
Exactly @@sharankumar4396
Stan was part of urban naxalism
@@sharankumar4396 People have been made to believe in mythologies and archaic ideas of a distant glorious past that never was ... They were adroitly and cleverly duped into believing that BJP would usher in a golden era that would create and foster crores of jobs for the unemployed and thus ensure a decent livelihood, particularly for the weaker and marginalized sections of Society. The people never imagined that if BJP voted to power would sooner or later turn into fascist demon that it is today...
When ever I hear the name of Kejriwal, I remember Fr. Stan Swamy and it hurts me lot.
You are right.
Yes it is.. 🥺 there is no more humanity 🥺
Just remember there are hundreds of political prisoners still in jail without getting any bail
When ever u hear the name of Kejriwal, u should also remember tht he called everyone corrupt and then apologized to court when defamation cases were filed against him..
@sudheerkumar4421 The courts expressed that they had found a prima facie case against Kejriwal.
Why should anyone remember Stan Swamy whenever he hears this corrupt clown?
Madam you are 💯 percent correct. Not only Muslims, Christians, Dalits are also being targeted.
🤣
What about Aliens being targeted? Aliens matter too
People of Kashmir praising Modi on Kashmir and Muslims praising Modi on infrastructure and welfare schemes so in which planet you live
Says a 2 kg rice bag 😂😂
Absolutely true. Statistics will indicate how many Christian pastors, priests & lay people have been beaten, humiliated & even killed. Making it difficult to even convert to a religion of one's choice.
We must NEVER forget what we as a nation allowed to happen to Father Stan Swamy. The torture he went through leading to his death symbolises the current value system of our society, polity, and nation.
He was imprisoned and he died there due to the natural cause. I didn't even know about him till he died.
@@FreddieMurphy746 Imprisoned - yes, not convicted. 83 years old social worker. Refused bail. Medical patient. Refused to grant even a straw for drinking water/liquids. All this while continuing to blabber aloud across different nations and the U.N that we are the biggest and most ancient democratic country... Are we?
And several others who are still languishing in jails. Atleast the people need to get up and fight for those who are still alive.
@@arpana1639 Well stated. We have a long and strenuous journey ahead. We, the common people of India, often bereft of education and even employment and largely suffering poverty levels, will overcome the obstacles, regain the Constitution, restore democracy, and revive human rights...
you r talking as if there were no incarcerations in congress' rule and milk and honey flowed in the streets before 2014..
It was phase 1 poll today, as an Ex-Modibhakt, i voted against them seeing the whole suppresion since a year.
Anyone but them.
Thank you ....people are learning after a decade...thank you once again....Jai Hind 🇮🇳
No change of power
Good decision, you like many realised late though it is not your fault because modi some how drifted away after good opening he done with swatch Bharat as soon as he became pm. Had he played better like vajpayee n LB Shastry as simpleton with care n affections diversity then he could have avoided all bad about him.
Modi energy level is very good strong but he wasted so much of time and energy on irrelevant issues and matters.
Billions disappointed after seeing his one man show projections, self glorification, media personification on every front. Luxuries unlimited and not forgetting his non stop speeches etc
@@krisgopi_8 The qualities you have found in Modi are not accidental. They are all part and parcel of the Indian brand of fascism gaining ground in Indian polity and governance. You and many others (including scholars and intellectuals) realized late because you have failed to analyze its roots in the RSS, a terrorist organization since Independence. RSS is blatantly anti-people, especially the weaker, oppressed, and marginalized sections...
Cheers
Another fantastic interview!! Kudos Karan.
Fantastic or Fanatic? These all Woke are going nuts knowing Modi is going to come back.
Excellent interview! Indira Gandhi declared emergency because the country was in chaos then. There was discipline within hours everywhere. But today we are experiencing an undeclared democracy.
Grt interview
'We're Moderates in a World of Extremism'
We are trying to learn!
lol nice one ...
@@muhammadaquil2256 yup you are arent you
and moving fast towards Fascism.
Rahul family is taking the lead here
@@muhammadaquil2256look who is talking😂😂😂😂
Please please vote for INDIA Alliance to save India democracy. This is the last and final call to save India democracy from dictator rule 🙏 People don't want to stop their freedom of life .
We Hindus will vote for BJP
Vote wisely. Vote for BJP. Vote for PM Modi.
We are going to vote Modi....
That will be the case as long as you have Rahul Gandhi
Thanks to The Wire for their brave journalism!
Very nice talk by Shah. She has brought back very painful memoriesi of how these Bhima Goregoan case took so many turns and twists. The Fr. Stan Swamy story is really gruesome sand unimaginable. This shook the conscience of the nation. Modi and his team will pay the price for this. The godi media too played a very crucial role in high lighting this false story. This shoes how fascism was taking shape in our land. Jai hind.
// This shook the conscience of the nation. // Conscience of which nation? I watch the liberals of the Central and North India hail Keralites for being educated and therefore not voting in BJP. Dig deeper, it's largely the Hindu/Muslim/Christian population mix that's not allowing them in, not education or liberal largesse.
Very true. His blood is on their hands & will come to haunt them. Karma never ever forgets an address.
absolutely true rightly said 👍
India is at the crossroad of history..
Should we gain an awareness to restore the Constitution and revive democracy or should we be gullible enough to celebrate the present-day fascism and dictatorship?
Karan, thanks bringing another knowledgable speaker .
O.M.Mathai, private secretary to Nehru wrote 2 books...(an eye opener) a) Reminiscences of the Nehru Age (1978) and
b) My Days with Nehru (1979).
Where he has written (among other things), the feeling of entitlement the Gandhis have about India as though they inherited this country to do as they like.
They had their shot for 60 yrs and what much is there to show?
Unemployment, poverty and inflation has been there since independence and was at the highest till 2014.
The percentage has come down drastically and they harp about it as though India was a garden of Eden till 2014😂
Excellent thank you Karan & Professor Shah 👍
Here is a voice of reason and democracy - kudos to Professor Alpa Shah. She has bravely brought out the startling and alarming fact of India being consistently degraded into a right-wing dictatorship under the stewardship of Modi/BJP/RSS. Fascism has many versions and this is the Indian version. Professor has done well in calling a spade, a spade. Thank you Karan Thapar and Professor Alpa Shah for this candid and most needed interview.
Oh my God ... Why have forgotten these facts ... We should talk more about this ... Thankyou karanji for bringing up this issue again ...
I'm now reminded of what Socrates once stated 'The unexamined life is not worth living.'
the curious case of several prominent Muslims and Christians, Dalits and other minorities supporting the BJP is really baffling.
Dividing a section amongst minorities to make them feel special so that they hate their own in order to keep getting the little perks that they do (to feel superior and better off from the rest)
In short divide and rule
The keyword is "prominent". 🤣🤣🤣
It's just the image crafted by the BJP, I still have faith in people, waiting to see it in June!
@zaphbrox8239 exactly!
It's equally baffling how ppl like you and so many others supporting the Congress!!
With over a dozen gigantic scams in their kitty,
Practices discriminatory secularism as if the onus to be secular isonhindus,
Where poverty, unemployment and inflation was the highest till 2014,
Where they practiced weak national security policies,
Where india was a non entity in the world map,
And so many more goof ups...
And yet talking as though India was a garden of Eden till 2014!!.
Very true
Sir, where in the world Muslims are safe except in a few Christian countries ? Ms Shah should be ashamed of her Indian origin if she feels Muslims r unsafe here.
Indian judicial system has got blood on it's hand of #stanswamy's death
Rightly said. May v all never forget how he was made to suffer n he was innocent ❤
@@lindarath583 The blood of the incarcerated 83-year-old Stanswamy is on the hands of NIA and the docile Press and unimaginably insensitive Judiciary too. Neither the NIA nor the Court had a straw (sipper) for him to enable him to drink water!!! What a dreadful shame on Indian polity and State!!!
As Lady Macbeth would declare in all solemnity "All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand". Thank you, Shakespeare...
@@birdiechidambaran5132 What about the blood of Hindus? These leftists are heartless, and people are going to vote for the PM.
Professor thanks for detailed interview 🎉
Her analysis is erudite and scholarly. Perhaps the time allotted was insufficient...
The processor is not with public opinions as Tripal talak was removed, burkhas and Nijabs not banned and Kashmiri life is transformed but you perhaps is anti Modi.Muslims saying openly and praising him unlike you and the illiterate professor
Well said, Kishor!! They are both liars.
Please send a copy of this book to modi. And just to remind you, about a year or two back mahua moitra said in a hard hitting speech in parliament that under Modi's rule India is a fascist state.
The Southern States have been most vocal, frank, and forthright in their critical assessment of Modiji quite for some time.
What is the point of sending a book to a fellow who is uneducated?
"According to Collins Dictionary, an educated person has a high standard of learning. They may also be described as literate, cultured, intellectual, or learned. Some other qualities of an educated person include:
Creative thinking: The ability to come up with unique solutions
Analytical and critical reasoning: The ability to communicate thoughts and ideas clearly and concisely
Good judgment: The ability to reason analytically and critically, think clearly and independently, and acquire knowledge and skills
Passion to learn: The ability to succeed no matter what social and economic background one has
Awareness of the world: The ability to appreciate the arts and comport oneself in a calm and comfortable manner "
@@birdiechidambaran5132 and a human heart full of compassion and understanding. All seems to be absent in this cruel Bania, modi.
@@KailashThakur0z that is also true brother.
Alpa Shah was raised in Nairobi, Kenya, studied at Cambridge and the London School of Economics, and now lives in London. Alpa’s research has been generously funded by major research grants from the EU European Research Council, the UK Economic and Social Research Council, the British Academy and the Wenner-Gren Foundation. She serves on, or served on, the editorial boards of several prominent journals in Anthropology including American Ethnologist, Journal of Royal Anthropological Institute, Focaal and Dialectical Anthropology, and on journals in South Asia Studies and Development Studies.
Soros connection??😮
Exactly these people used to dictate/influence india ....😅...they used indian inferiority complex of seeing western validation as a truthnof gospel..... thanks to internet and social media.... everyone can find out their divise dirty politics....
If she was praising Modi, we would have seen her videos circulating during elections phases. Keep the hypocrisy to yourself and accept the truth before it hits you as mercilessly as it hit other innocents mercilessly.
@@finegentleman7820 A lady who has never lived in India is talking about India lol just because she studied in Cambridge she is an expert about India and whats happening in India . WOW
@@sydk35but she's right? Answer that first
How did we reach this place?
Right time is now. Right time to think, ruminate, ponder... Where did we slip? And why?
She is very incisive and a great ground researcher and the author Of Nightmarch, absolutely a book full of insights
I really don't understand why ten years down the line we are still debating if they're fascists. . Do we really have to debate the obvious ? Modi and Co have never made bones about it. They've openly been fascist for years.
easy to call bjp fascists than to mount a credible opposition
@@sudheerkumar4421 It's not the job of the public to 'mount a credible opposition '. That the opposition has little credibility doesn't make the BJP any less fascist.
@@Trollika_Devithe fact tht BJP had 2 seats in 1984 and they worked hard all these decades to come to power in 2014 in the leadership of an incredibly strong leader with decades of experience in the tough and tumble of indian political life shouldnt just be dismissed as fascist...
good for scoring brownie points in a leftie group therapy session but a really bad and politically lazy argument..
and people in this country always vote for the least worst party..which is BJP today
@@sudheerkumar4421 Diplomats said once- Oxford cherises Anti- India talk very quickly and promotes the person on its platforms.
- This woman author was recently appointed after her book came out.
- Talking of Fasicm : She at Oxford cannot talk about Israel's fascist action against Palestinians which is literally called genocide worldwide.
- The shear hypocrisy and alienation from masses of the Liberals fail to see since 2014 why BJP is catching up with the voters.
- It's very basic:- Is Netanyahu Fasict like Modi? Can she talk on this analogy in London at Oxford?! Answer is Cancel culture will remove her from any university engagement, forget Oxford..
Great Interview ❤💐🙏
Our Constitution, democracy, Country in Danger ⚡
YES, INDIA DEMOCRACY IS NOW HISTORY..
Let us redeem it. It is far too precious to be left in the hands of one or a few politicians and bureaucrats...
A painful confession: The relentless onslaught of autocratic Modi's government favouring the huge Corporates as against the interests and welfare of the weaker, exploited and vulnerable vast sections of the Society is not only shocking but there for all to see. Their anti-people policies and repressive laws have made India most miserable and sorrowful. Hitherto, the Press and the Judiciary were considered to be the bastion of Constitutional values - especially human rights, freedom of expression, democracy, and secularism. It is tragic to note that the Press and the Judiciary have largely miserably failed to rise to the occasion to play their part in their role as watchdogs of the Constitution and restoration of liberty and democracy... Modi's Government has largely been forceful and successful in silencing dissent and open discussion - in and out of Parliament.
Thanks for such a thought provoking interview. Professor raised very pertinent points especially in context of Bhima Koregaon 2018 violence case.
India today seemed so divided, with pervading unrest , violence and issues of economic insecurity & unemployment.
Current dispensation instead of focusing on issues of environment, women or for that matter employment is more concerned about veg - non veg ... unheard and shocking..
Karan sir I dont expect the world to come to the rescue of India. It is our battle and through elections Indians can still give a befitting reply to those in power. It is a time to bring a change.
Continously voting one party to power makes them despotic and arrogant.
It's not rational to have a bind faith in one person. No one is infalliable or semi- God or avtar. Secularism and not hindutva is the dna of India or Bharat. Hope it is understood by majority soon. Finally, I am very concerned even though I am upper caste hindu as divided, fractured , violent, poor society will affect everyone and I dont want to carry burden of past like Germans.
I find your statements profoundly sincere. I am also worried by the downfall of democratic values, norms, and practices at all levels of the Union Government's governance. Yet, like you, I too believe that the people of North India by and large have now woken up and realized that they have been duped into believing the BJP. They are now not only furious but also aware of all the dangers of a fascist State. Their wrath would find reflection in the poll results. That is, if election process is not rigged...
These pregnant words will continue to haunt me:
I don't want to carry burden of past like Germans.
Karan Thapar please allow your guests to speak without interrupting them please
Thinks he is too smart
He appears to be the senior version of AG, only difference is that he is against .....
I keep on remembering Fr Stan Swamy. They even denied him a sipper. He couldn't drink water from a glass because of Parkinson 's disease.
He was also denied his Rice Bag also... smchh.. bechaara.
In the west you have to attend white church or black church?
Karan Thapar s interview with Ms Shah, world renowned sociologist and anthropologist, professor at LSR and Oxford।।
Your programme being in English it doesn't reach the majority। It gives the true story but only is absorbed by like minded people, wheras it should reach and understood by general public at large।
Today it is worst than emergency, because in emergency there was no hindu rashtra theory and incarceration of Muslims।
Making more than 110 crore hindus scare of just 33crore muslims। For almost 5 centuries we were under muslim or british rulers, yet they couldn't erase us inspite of having all the powers at there command, but modiji is scaring us inspite of प्रचण्ड बहुमत, being used for ulterior motives।
You have spoken my mind. Thank you for calling a spade, a spade.
The seeds of religious hatred, fanaticism, and violence have been planted in the minds of a few immature and illiterate minds. These miscreants create riots and indulge in all kinds of illegal and unlawful acts of violence against religious minorities. It is the division of people on religious basis that BJP is aiming at. This is not only unconstitutional but also unacceptable and unpardonable to the civilized world.
Good positive sense of discussion ❤
Thankyou all❤
Brilliant interview. Thanks to Professor Shah 4 highlighting
Fine analysis by profession.alpa shah especially the convincing conclusion of optimism therein.except that .the current Indian dispensation us but an episode in the long rum perspective of the French Annales school of history..the ' longue duree'..as well as the perspective of the Cyclic view ..of history..with infact does rests in the optimism .prof.writes about....indeed there is hope...
Gita Bajpai..Vadodara
Error in the text..comment ..be please ignored .ir is to be read as Professor...not profession .
Thankyou.
Gita Bajpai
P
Ur is
Bhima Koregaon 16 makes me sick. How can these 16 some who are academics be in prison with drummed up charges by the RSS/BJP IT cell.
They were not academics. They were terrorists.
A right and pertinent question... It is made possible by a servile Press and wavering Judiciary...
I concur with your views.
Dont foget the NIA, not just the police in Stan Swamy's case it roles right up to who heads these agencies.
Bull's eye!
Very important discussion. Alpa Shah clearly establishes how BK case represents the decay in India's democratic ethos and practices.
100% correct. BK case underscores a deeper and more gruesome fascism on the rise...
Extremely happy to be in India still only bcoz of such ppl! Not only interviewee Shah Ma'am. But also Karan Thapar Sir, The Wire which stands aloof from other medias(!?!).
For sure, will support The Wire!
Maam's opinion about BeemaKorgeon case n few words about that bench astonishes us.
My opinion is one made use of the opportunity. Carefully erected an image in ppl's minds n hearts by effective planning. That was erected with the help of medias, institutions, misusing commoners faith, their IT Cell, shakas mindset partymen in other parties etc.
This image came in handy in fanning fire.
Wow! Both❤ ended with hope. And we all know, it's the driving force which takes us to the next step.
Very well stated, bro...
Your selection of the speaker and the matter discussed is superb and needs hats off
I am in complete agreement with you. Thanks.
comment by a fifth grade fail.
Very accurate analysis by Alpa. I would like to add that Modi is a charismatic leader only for those who believe in the supremacy of Hindu religion and care only about their well being especially their economic well being. To some extent those who care about caste supremacy also will support Modi. Most of the NRIs care only about these and probably Sakhas and VHPs will ensure this. Thanks.
37:10 Thank you Karan. If the professor uses modern fascism as a descriptor in her book she cannot avert the question.
can see the constant and undiminished love for the marginalised in India in Prof. Shah's words. Her opposition to the regime plausibly stems from that. Salute you
I have purchased this book recently and reading at this time. This interview will be help me to understand the Truth of Modi's India
If you want to know about Modi's India then travel the India..
Why are buying outsiders perspective..
Except for Gujuratis and Up Bihar people, nobody is supporting in the rest of the country, hence their is lack of humanity and quality growth in these states. If you trace India, you will hate Modi-RSS even more.
@vipintripathbei2831 because an objective eye is always good....one not blinded by the self.
@@vipintripathi2831 She is Kenyan born of Gujarati descent. If being an insider is what matters. But presumably her having published several books on India and being a newly appointed Professor at Oxford is why her perspective is valued.
It’s important to listen to the expert as studying past trends and observing similarities to what’s happening now is their job. It doesn’t matter whether a specialist dr lives abroad or in India. They have the right knowledge, experience and expertise to detect the disease by looking at the symptoms. All symptoms are of India being under a fascist regime inching towards dictatorship if this man comes back to power.
I like WIRE very much for right selection of topics, quality posts and highly factual reporting. Keep it on THE WIRE.
Democracy is actually the strongest and functional to the fullest extent in India. Democracy does not mean voting for socialists, communists and corrupt political dynasties. Democracy means voting for the strongest candidate and the strongest leaders. Just because communists favorite candidate or party are not winning does not mean facism. In fact communism and socialist ideologies are extremely dangerous need to be outlawed in democracies.
Yes you're right about position of country today 🙏🙏👍
She is not only accurate and specific in her delineation of today's India but detailed in her analysis and empathetic to democratic aspirations in India ...
It all suggests the farsightedness of Churchill who knew the future of Democracy in India
True I used to criticize his thoughts but it is becoming true year after year.
Absolutely
He predicted it accurately.
Yup Its sad seeing both churchill and jinnah who we loathed getting proven right.
India was just lucky to have had great founding leaders whose fruits we enjoyed for a few decades.
India couldn't keep up with those high deals and is destined towards becoming a fascistic majoritarian state which lacks empathy and principles.
Thank you kqran. Always.excited to watch your interviews. You make journalism proud.
what a beautiful discussion ❤❤❤
keep up the good work 👍💪
I like how SAM HARRIS a left wing himself puts together as " If the Left don't understand what people want then the Right will come to power and deliver it " he didn't said in the context of India but I guess it applies the same to India as well. I humbly ask the prof why couldn't left who were mostly in power till now sorted out the "Naxal" issue ?Obviously we cant expect the Right wing govt to cozy with Decent. Congress as usual was half hearted about the situation when they were in power , juggling between Internal Security on one hand and freedom of intellectuals rights on exposing the deep rooted inequality which should have been addressed. The left coalition in India has fundamentally compromised every serious situations , from half hearted approach to home grown Islamic terror which led to country wide bomb blasts to in return creating a non existing "Hindu terror " equivalence which didn't helped the situation any better. A lot of frustrated Hindus gave up on this Pseudo- Secular , pro caste , anti-Hindu approach and boom Mr Modi banged the PMO door and he doesn't seems to be in hurry to excuse us any soon.
Exactly 💯
But the bigger question is this...do these people really belongs to left...??
I mean look at their lifestyle,...che guvera, Fidel Castro,trortsky, Lenin....these people sacrificed their life for their ideology and principles , even Naxalites are sacrificing as well whom they support...but what these people sacrificed....?? Offcourse public attention span time has been reduced because these people were presented/tagged as beacon of truth and journalis. ...their ignorance and support for Islamists, their ignorance towards ground realities of Hindus and muslims and other faith, their ignorance of caste realities......they seems desperate to me because now they don't get entertained by current govt...so they desperately create a certain narrative and wants public to belive it.....they don't realise why have they become less relevant than a youtuber dhruv Rathee.... offcourse this government has many flaws but creating a narrative of dictatorship, hinduttavadi,anti muslim....and then at the same time supporting qtar and Taliban and jihadi organisation like Hamas....do these people think people are fool...??
Its not only the minorities, its the common man who goes thru fear, uneasiness, radical hindutva supporters, open corruption & lies, harresment thru Ed & taxmen, MANIPUR issues. Basically india has moved back 40 years.
India has sound democracy with constitution, Supremacy' courts, election commission which is independent,we have 30 states with autonomy on laws and order so why senseless people are degrading India with the word fascism.And should they not target Putin, Assad, Islamic leaders, Pakistan with persecution of minorities, blasmsny laws, conversion, destroying Hindu temples so this mindset is very insulting Is any islamic countries secular or democracies or why people want to degrade 1.4 billions in democracy, freedom and are Burkhas banned in India while west is banning burkhas.So this Brainless attack is very sad
You want to insult Hindus when India is the most secular and Look at all Islamic countries.People Will talk of hinduvata or Rss but it has no meaning as it's hatred towards Sanatan dharma.The people will target BJP but would they say anything on Stalins of Tamil Nadu openly saying Sanatan dharma is Dengue malaria ect and India alliance is quite.Mamta Benergee would insult Lord Ram which is followed by 1 billion Indians but nobody Will speak against her.Abdullas and Mehboobas rule of Kashmir with open permit terrorists from Pakistan to kill Hindu pandits will not be tarnished Akilesh party demolished by Yogi and BJP hasn't learn by boycotting Ram Mandir opening ceremony but they will Only decimated as Hindus got lot's of pride of Lord Ram atlast came to his birth place Did left parties delivered on triple talak or Kashmir issue so left have failed but still wants to show their ego
our system cant stand against strong leaders with authoritarian impulses...Indira evoked same kind of opinions back in the day when she declared emergency and of course for u those days were fun and sunshine
@@sudheerkumar4421 But this is worse than Emergency of 1975 because Emergency was declared openly and to the knowledge of one and all and the Press, with a few exceptions, stood by human rights and democracy...
Yes, you mentioned very rightly the factors voters should care.
- MDH, Everest Masala with cancer pathogens, Pharma killing African and Central Asian kids, Bogus Poverty Surveys, Tweaked GDP figures, Poor and degrading social capital - We are not heading towards vishwa guru, it's a China model, inhumane model.
- People Don't even know Failure of Gujarat model popping up. All major bridges and infra done under Modi have been falling since 2015.
- The damage to envt is another blunder by BJP. India might recover from all other things but envt loss won't and can't be mitigated..
Contrary to the consensus here I appreciated Karan interjecting and keeping the conversation focused and to the point. Professor Alpa Shah meanders and all over the place.
Agreed
Those who live, work, and are settled in England have a royal bind towards the British govt to carry out work of the type of criticism, condemnation & running down of their own original countries. It is helpful for their thriving in England. Even Mr Thapar seems to have not realized the British googlies, still. This is only one example.
Indian democracy is a part of history 😂.
Unfortunately it’s dying like many other places
Once upon a time... The End.
Indians are learning democracy each and every day, minute and second. We have a very long journey to go and the path is strewn with different kinds of danger... Yet, there is hope - one indication of that is, India survived Emergency of 1975 and slowly but steadily recovered...
And democracy in Pakistan and China is thriving 😂😂😂
@@Maverick-zo4kc Not exactly the best examples to compare ourselves with - that's setting the bar low. 😊
Cross questioning of Karan Sir is laudable..
DOWN with the fascist Hindutva communal party of BJpee!!
Vote for I.N.D.I.A alliance
Save the country
Save the Constitution
Save democracy
Jain Hind 💪🏿🇮🇳💪🏿🇮🇳💪🏿🇮🇳
Not only other religions, even True Hindus like Swami Vivekananda, who follow/ preach the noble ideals of "Religious Harmony" taught by Hinduism, are also treated as enemies by this "Hindutva Modi Regime". Now we the true Hindus are praying Lord #ShriRam to save INDIA from the anarchy mindset of this regime.
Swami Agnivesh, a people rights activist died after he was attacked by RSS linked cadres in jharkhand.
An excellent conversation. A bold, profoundly astute and articulated Indian fascism under the present government. Appreciate this whole heartedly
What country is going through “God” helps
Whst madam is speaking is true what is happening in our country is
Everything she said is exactly what's happening in India right now. The most recent one being the Manipur violence. All telltale signs of Fascism.
EVMs are tampered to make sure that a certain party get maximum votes, then why stand in queue and cast votes?
This is the most important question that has to be agitated and discussed in the Supre Court of India.
Thank you Karan
Excellent interview & an eye opener on the present scenario. Would have been nice though if KT did not constantly interrupt the Prof's flow of thoughts.
Mr Thapar has a habit of interjecting, doesn’t let the specialist speak..unfortunately. She was making some important points about the BK event itself
Good point. Quite frustrating
He interpreted because that story is already in public, see Wikipedia
Yes. He has this irritating habit of interrupting and breaking the speaker's line of thought. Also, he frequently attempts to lead the interviewee to say things that he would like to hear (in the courts, this would normally be objected to as "leading the witness").
Alpa Shah u hit the nail on The head.❤😂
great sir love your work grow more and explre more and be big like aajtak and zee news and lately seen your interview when u tske modi's interview by seeing your questions he just fart on his speaking and he just say ... plz end interview that time he just didn't speak a word what to say how to say this is our uneducated and by money he holds degret i.e he isn't 10 th pass 😅 . how our nation's andhbhakt says modi modi all time they are manipulated by him
Fantastic Interview……very sad the state of Indian politics…
Thank you Karan & prof. Shah what is the price of hope meanwhile. How mean?
Thank you very much Karan for producing such an excellent program to bring about awareness to the general public how Modi modern fascism is castrating the people who speak out or criticise the Modi government.
self-silencing is well expressed
To answer a question posted to Prof. Shah, why are Indians complacent to fascistic attitudes of the government.
I think, the majority of Indians are made to feel proud of their religion after 8 centuries of Mughal and British rule. A Reckoning of religious self respect and pride which is propagated as pay back time to the Muslims and Christians who enslaved the majority.That sense of new found religious pride makes Indians overlook facts.
Your interviews are brilliantly conducted.
before i support BJP now i Understood ... Jai AAP
Many are like you. Most of you were carried away by the enormous and continued propaganda made possible by spending mind-boggling amounts of money to brainwash and infuse in you a hero-worship mentality for Modiji...
Why browbeat the interviewee to say what you want instead of letting her answer what she wants to say. In that sense your style of interview is disappointing for such an important book
This interview is a good effort to form the conscience of the nation for the integration of india. The humblest citizens of our country have to know of these and think too... especially at this time if election
WOW! Thanks Karan...
Towards the end,even Thapar got a shock.Was in fact interviewing a great admirer....😂
Thanks to mrs. Shah for telling truths❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Prof Alpa Shah, with your kind of background as an accomplished Indian expatriate, no one should grudge your love of freedom, democracy and seeds of hope that you still cherish for your natives in India. But let me tell you,India's potential in the transformation of global consciousness and excellence in diverse futuristic enterprises in corporate, spiritual, economic and geo political spheres is obvious for all to see. This far exceeds the visualising capacities of western scholars however demeaning or facist a Modi or assorted players in the past may seem. So I think we should remain open minded on realizing the motives of the developed world, and scheming power blocs stoking terrorism and conflicts to sustain their military-industrial complex at the cost of untold suffering of a traumatized humanity.
I can only imagine the anguish and heartburn such “experts” would have to endure for decades, after BJP sweeps the elections.
As an Indian I feel a movement of right thinkers as we learning from all this!
The judiciary and big newspaper media responsible for the injustice they have blood on their hands where is insaan iat
The blood of the incarcerated 83-year old Senior Citizen Stanswamy will be in the hands of the National Investigation Agency and the Indian Judiciary. Forever. Such cruelty will remain as inglorious blots in the annals of Indian History. As solemnly declared by Lady Macbeth, "All the waters of Neptune will not sweeten this little hand...".
Alpa appears not being able to communicate her thoughts effectively enough against Karan's aggressive questioning.... Or, not sure though, maybe the book is a compilation of separate pieces of writings researched, written and edited by others, which Alpa might not have had a chance to look into deeply enough before publishing of the book itself... We expect more depth from authors of such sensitive books, specially during such interviews...
Democracy is no more in india😢
The book was held up to the camera a number of times, but never was the cover fully visible to the viewers.
Thanks
Being a poor Dalit, One thing I understood very late in life is that Babasaheb 's constitution and democracy will remain in India only
If
All Dalits get educated
And
non-Muslims in majority.
For these reasons I and my family voted for the BJP for the first time today.
@@user-fz7qr2ng7h Absolutely confusing... HOW can a Dalit studying Babasaheb Ambedkar's works resort to voting for BJP? Absurd!
@@birdiechidambaran5132 why not?
We are victims of castism. At the same time, we are victims of radicalism in my town. That time bjp came for support.
The Constitution gave me education and equal rights. Bjp saved our existence in my village from radicals.
Babasaheb never asked to hate others including Hindus. Don't make Dalits a tool for your hate propaganda.
Excellent message for us to understand from the professor Alpa Shaw interview. Thank you Karan.
Shows like these pull a commoner away from media outlets like The Wire, not only that it gives weight to the BJP narrative as well.
If it was in US, Namo might have impeached and jailed for voilating constitutional values
Modi is turning India into Saudi Arabia
😂😂😂
On the contrary, he would get half of Hillary's votes which Trump didnt get in 2016!
Oh really? You are in the US,if so be there!
@@Sayan0709 But he would be if he did demonetisation there he would be jailed.
@@Histaogram he couldn't do demonetisation there....as Federal Reserve is far more powerful than RBI!the world economy is tethered to dollar, courtsey to the FR!
RBI act gives a whole lot of power to the central govt, itself!
I don't understand why this externally forces are intervening in India's internal matters?
Let India people to decide the things
Modi campaigned for Trump in USA !!!
This is an academic book published by an Oxford Professor essentially being reviewed. Either you don't understand India or you have a bloated awe for academe. Her opinions research or interventions such as they are will have a non-zero but minimal effect on India
❤dare devil interview. Congrats to The Wire team.
Good reporting, sir 👏