you are so right. And, special for someone driving a Tesla. most of the reviewers are not very aware of the design choices volkswagen made, and why. Bjorn, good job to give us these honest reviews. I think you are a Tesla fan, but special then, these reviews are top!
@@pilotandthecity8527 Yeah, Can't ask for more. Honest reviews, no sales BS, and plenty of really useful info. I don't know who else does test headlights, same cars with different tires, temperatures, 1000km etc, this is crazy useful shiiieet
@@paulf3353 he does. I follow his reviews for years now. actually he talked me into the EV world. And now with my own ID4 on delivery he showed me a lot of useful stuff of this car. and...in this world, someone, who's positive and honest....it's not common ....me like!!
He is 10 steps ahead of everyone. No other car reviewer/reporter goes to the depths Bjorn goes. Next new car I buy will have been approved by Bjorn first. LOL
This is real world people. It was so good that people and brands got aware of importance of social media exposure. This proofs that you guys are way ahead of most countries Europe and worldwide. Not only on EV, but mostly on people's mind.
LOL. Kudos to VW for understanding who's who among "influencers" and targeting the guy with a huge Tesla audience. It makes me want to consider a VW in the future. They are obviously interested in actually making a good BEV.
Rear drums very sensible on RWD EV's, as you/Harald explain the Regen does most of the work. Even on ICE cars I've found rear discs tend to need replacement due to corrosion before they're anywhere near worn out.
To be fair, dual axle disc brakes are really only required for very dynamic driving (racing for example), or repeatedly crossing the alps for example where fading can become an issue on the downhill parts. On EVs even the downhill part is not an issue usually, except when the battery is full.
Yeah after winter, lots of highway driving and not a lot of braking, (driving it around 2 times a week) my rear disks, 2 years old also start corroding quite a lot 😂 (and my car is a fossil, on LPG)
During my little sporty test drive with the id3 tour, I recognized after a few stronger brakes very bad brake behaviors. And also on the Autobahn from 150 to 80 km/h. As engineer I would say the drum brakes are not strong enough for the car weight. The brake distance is ok, but you need more power on the brake paddle. And I had a lot of starting issues due to iced drum brakes. Two times I called the ADAC.
@@chrishart8548 Less maintenance and lasts longer. My 2015 Volt's rear brakes have only 25% wear (134 000 KM) but still needs to be replaced soon because of rust build-up.
Cheap to manufacture expensive to maintain win win for the car makers. I don't buy cars with drums short sighted people help yourself. If its a lease vehicle who cares
Another good advantage of drum brakes is that they never rub. Unless you brake the shoes will not touch the drums even a little bit and this gives you less rolling resistance.
Cheers, this gives a better look on the flatness of the under carrier. A list of all the colours for the ID4. 1st/non1st EU/US - [Uni / Metallic] [EU] Dusk Blue [M] [EU] Mangan Gray [M] [EU/US] Gletscher White [M] [EU] Honey Yellow [M] [US] Mythos Black [M] [EU/US] Scale Silver [M] [EU/US] Moonstone Gray [U] Soon? [US] Kings Red [M]
VW Norway director showing and explaining the MEB platform shows their commitment towards user experience. It will be nice to watch a full video of him about MEB platform and him explaining the design story of ID3 and ID4. They are putting a lot of trust in Tesla Bjørn afterall.
Cons of drum breaks: 1) drum brakes suffer from good ventilation being practically closed if subjected to a high level of demand, they tend to overheat and cause a loss of braking capacity. 2) as the shoes wear, you have to adjust them so they don’t lose strength and balance with the front brakes. Pros: 1) decrease rolling resistances disc brake pads tend to drag the rotors slightly when the car is moving. 2) Cheaper than disc breaks
Plus they self energise, in a car application they don’t require a brake booster like discs do, in a trailer they can be applied with a small electro magnet and a 12 volt circuit.
I'm with you about heat dissipation, nevertheless, most of us don't have problems with heat, and with good engine braking or regenerative braking, that is compensated. About brake adjustment, the self adjusting mechanism does the adjustment automatically. Greetings
Clever ... I remember years ago I was using drums and then I had to go abroad for 3 months and the drum cylinder was jammed. Good if you move the car each day. If you are going away for months don't engage brakes on the drums. Not sure how you do that with this EV
@@onederment My car still has drums in the back; in 25 years & 260000km I never had problems with them (and there were times where it wasn't moved for months). So I guess it's all down to regular maintenance.
@@onederment I have a car (1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo) with drum brakes at the rear and it was parked for 12 years, and they work like if it was parked yesterday. I love drum brakes, really reliable, and for most of us, we don't need the heat dissipation capability of disc brakes, with good engine braking or regenerative braking they work 👌👌 and with really good reliability. Actually I know some classic cars with drum brakes at the front and they work really good too. Greetings
It is really great that VW is giving up some income in order to make a better car. And also they risk to be seen as cheap by replacing disk brakes with drums. I have problems with my ICE car rear brakes because I drive gently and the rear brakes are not used too much. Good job VW!
@@G_man_ Yeah. Back in my Audi days I never had an oil change without having to add oil in between. I have zero faith in EVs being more reliable as I've seen so many weird things fall in cars. I bet VW added a timing belt or something else in their EV's. 😂
@@Perkelenaattori I’ve bought BMW’s for the past 20 years and then tried the Tesla Model 3. BMW’s preventative maintenance requirements and general repairs just kill you financially. To keep their ///M cars running right, it’s a lot of money. The model 3 has 65k miles on it so far and has been flawless. I won’t be going back to BMW unless they really design a nice high performance EV that is as maintenance free as the Tesla.
@@aussie2uGA I've owned 6 BMW's myself in the past 12 years as I drive about 75k km annually and I've always bought the service contract for 160k kilometres which covers all the oil changes. Then again I've only had 520d's and not M's. Edit: Also my BMW's have been extremely issue free.
I have had three cars with drumb breaks. Suzuki sx4 (fiat sedicci). Good car, still driving it. Never had any problems with the drumb break (2009, 180.000km). No garage, parking on a hill, no problem even in the winter. Smart roadster. Drum break no problem (2004-2014, 130.000km). Seat Toledo 1l. Car was a peace of shit, because is was often broken. Rust everywhere. Drum break makes lot of problems. No rust but leakage. (92-00, 120.000km) No I looking forward to our new id3 in march. The drumb break was one reason to buy it. Not the Main reason. Hope i dont regret it. If something is Bad engineered it can be worse although in theorie it might be better. Greetings
Even in my Prius 2 with its minimal regen, the rear brakes would rust away quickly here in Germany. All sorts of recommendations were floating around, like search an empty place and drive backwards as fast as possible to then brake hard. I’m totally with VW here. Also nice to see they are embracing YT, see e.g. out of spec interview. Thanks Björn.
@@HeikoQuant how could it be a fully closed system? What about brake dust etc? Even clutches aren't really closed (on some vechicles they are very much open)
@@SirHackaL0t. still, looked up these brakes and it's really just a standard drum brake with labirynth seals, there isn't much water getting in, but it also has a bit harder time getting out, much better than disc brakes when rarely used, but still does rust. I just don't like the "no rust" statement.
Great video. Especially to see the director of VW in Norway to talk with Bjorn about the car. And he knows about the banana box test. Keep it up Harald! I would go with the blue for the ID4! It looks fantastic. :)
Haha meanwhile in Holland... nobody turns their head after an ID.4 anymore, plenty of them around here😄 I’m by no means a VW fan but in real life it’s just a really good looking car, the proportions are spot on. I have a feeling that it will easily pass the ID.3 in popularity.
Now I'm REALLY looking forward to the e-Tron Q4! If it is based on the same platform and has similar features to the Q55 but has the ID.4 efficiency it will be the one I buy. As it stands now, the ID.4 is top 3 on my list, and that's all due to these videos. Great job with this info. We don't get this level of in depth reviews here in the US.
@@RichardSingleton0318 My thoughts exactly my friend. Goldish with the chrome delete trim. Hmmm. Nice! Just a few months, just a few months. Whoooohooo!
Smart collaboration between VW and Bjorn. Pretty good recommendation when Bjorn is a huge Tesla fan, to have favorable impressions of the VW ID.4. Might have to trade in my 5.5 year old sleeper 2015 VW e-Golf SEL here in California, for an ID.4. Won't give up my Lux TDI Touareg, yet. Love the real leather seats on that one.
I'm sure many can go without using the brakes and use regen most of the time in good weather. I find myself even with my Tesla using brakes a even when I have regen. Many get irritated here in my area of US when you brake too soon and slow down well before turning or a traffic light. It's a bad behavior by stopping so quickly. Many might stop doing if they have regen braking to save brakes. Agreed this is nicely put together.
Excellent interview, Harald seems a great chap - Interesting that with his enthusiasm for the banana box test perhaps VW could promote its use as an international standard.
In normal daily driver there is absolutely no difference in safety with drum brakes compared to disks. Drum brakes are just as capable as long as they dont heat too much, which is why they are not used on race cars and which is also why they are used only on the back, where the brakes are less stressed.
Drum brakes makes sense! I wouldn't mind drum brakes in the back for my TM3SR+. Would be interesting if it were possible to retrofit drums if I need to fully replace disks and pads.
Thanks again and again Bjorn! I really like these reviews. I ordered the ID4 , First in White. I Think it suits the car very well. to be honest, the yellow is very funky, but I'm not sure I'll still like it after 2 years.
Thanks for the feedback!! I thought these are specially designed for this car, and are closed. That made sense. But maintenance free is always relatively...
I just saw the first two ID4’s “in the wild” at VW in Kingston, NY USA. It’s noteworthy that I am 75 miles from NYC and I get my car review of ID4 from Bjorn in Nortway - seems like VW is paying attention to the value of an independent reviewer who does quality investigations.
Man that yellow is gorgeous i love that color man looks really good, i also saw this silver a darker kinda silver with a red stripe above the windows where they usually paint in silver below the roof that one is also nice but maybe was from a press car ir something
I like the frunk on our Model Y. It is not wasted space for us. That said I really want to drive the ID4 for the utility of its autopilot, its comfort, and its efficiency and range.
We had a lot of problems with the rear drumbrakes freezing up after driving the Id3 in snow. The car have no diffbrake and only put power to one wheel and you are stuck with one brake frosen and the other spinning. Nothing a hammer would fix on the frosen side but its irritating.
I like the thoroughness of their design - there are aerodynamic fairings on the lower suspension pieces, to help them reduce air turbulence. And your pointing out the trailing side of the recessed bolt holes being slightly modified, for the same reason.
@@pritambissonauth2181 - Lived & worked in Santa Monica & San Francisco for a few years, so I’ve seen what even salt air can do to a car. It’s not as bad as salt roads every winter, but it still rusts out cars when given enough time.
Bjorn, I like the mustard color. I believe VW has redeemed themselves and the ID4 is going to be a big hit. I finally saw one in person this past Thursday and it looks great.
Bjorn, Hope you can still find some slippy roads so late in the season. My experience test driving an i3 is that having regen in the back only can make the car very unstable in snowy road. It's like breaking with the old hand brake all the time. Also from my Québec winter experience (sand, calcium, shiiiiiit) with my former cars (VW included) with drum brakes in the back, it all get rusty and crunchy. Looking FWD to see these drums after few winters.
The last car I owned that had drum brakes was a Golf 2 :-). So it feels a bit weird to see this again in 2021, especially on a big and heavy car like this. But thinking about it it seems to make sense.
Off-road trucks (like the ones fire fighters use) still use drum brakes, because they are better protected against mud etc. Trucks for street use are today equipped with disc brakes. Car trailers also use drum brakes, because they are simple to operate mechanical.
Hey Bjørn, the main reason for drum brakes is weight. The whole setup of hub wheel bearing, drum and brake actuator weights less than a disc setup (with brake calipper and so on). In EV every change or development is in relation to weight reduction or friction reduction.
How drum brakes is ventilated if it is a closed circuit? You have particles and brake dust also inside the drum brakes that need to go somewhere. . I dont think that is is 100% sealed, if not..water can still come inside and start the rust, which you will not see, but the problem can be real.
I would think towing a trailer with any frequency would put the rear brakes to work some? Never thought about it much, but adding 500 - 1,000 kg increases the work total and shifts weight distribution....
The main problem with drum brakes is overheating, but that's not an issue with EVs. Most of the braking is done with regen anyways. The only time when the battery might not be able to absorb enough energy is in cold weather - and then the brakes are well-cooled as well. Hence it makes perfect sense to use drum brakes in the rear.
All the cars I've had in the last with drum brakes rusted inside and that rust rattled around inside the drum occstionally jamming up the wheel. I might actually prefer no brake on the back and just rely on the front brakes and regeneration.
I have a drum brakes at the rear for 12 years now. 0 maintenance, 0 issues, works like day 1. And i bet they will still work perfectly when the car is 20 years old. But I use them from time to time, meaning, i break with the drum brakes for instance from 60 km/h to 0, on a red light or something.(handbrake) Don't know what will happen if you never use them. Because that trick is not possible on EVs. The car has to do it, or there could be problems indeed. Will not be able to test that, my next car will be Berlin Y and i keep it 20+ years, basically forever. (:
@@kasmopaya2676 it will depend on the climate where you live, rust is the biggest problem in the UK for cars. In theory drum brakes that are well sealed should not rust....
why? they need one moment new brake plates on a normal car, but as explained, these brakes are almost not used in a EV, and that's why they are maintenance free at this very car.
@@pilotandthecity8527 it’s a mechanical device and all mechanical devices need maintenance. Even more so if the are exposed to salt and grime from the road. And not used is not necessarily a advantage. Brakes need to be used regularly to function correctly. But as I said. Drum brakes is a good choice because disk brakes would need more maintenance.
Totally agree re drum brakes. The friction shoes in there have a much greater surface area and will wear much slower, and the are protected from the elements too.
no they arent lol. parking brakes are drums inside rear disc brakes and rust out from road salt. also drums in salt area are the worst as they get rusted on. needing a sledge hammer to get the drum off ripping the pads and hardware with them
If they used quality anodized rotors and calipers rust wouldn't be a problem...the issue is the cost cutters won't let the engineers spec the appropriate materials for brake rotors.
My question is: In an emergency situation where max braking was needed, how well will this perform vs all discs? I'm guessing, not as well. Traditionally, drums in the back were seen as a cost-saving measure.
I saw those when I was there getting my 2.1 update a few weeks ago. Not as large outside as I’d expected in a good way. I didn’t like the yellow. Reminds me a little of the e-208 yellow which also sucks. :D
Greetings Bjørn, I have an idea for a video. Noise comparison between the different charging stations.(v3 Superchargers are more noisy) Coil whine, yes or no and so on. Or does the charging station suck power 24/7 for no reason, for instance a screen that runs all day long. (wasting energy) All that stuff. Also BMW iX pre-orders are through the roof in Norway. Looking forward to the TBTP.
Thanks for the video Björn. Interesting to see how much VW invest into EVs in Norway - many charging stations at the dealership. My dealer only has one. 11kW only.
Great video as usual Bjørn. I wonder how much difference there is between the 21'' and 19'' wheels in terms of efficiency. and also 255 on the rear wheels seem a little much idk?
The director of VW in Norway excited for the banana box test :D
yeah , i thought the same
Ditto! I heard that and thought wow...
Voltswagen understands banana box tests, my faith is restored.
LOL Bjorn is like 10 steps ahead of any other VW ID reviewer! Great work!
you are so right. And, special for someone driving a Tesla. most of the reviewers are not very aware of the design choices volkswagen made, and why. Bjorn, good job to give us these honest reviews. I think you are a Tesla fan, but special then, these reviews are top!
@@pilotandthecity8527 Yeah, Can't ask for more. Honest reviews, no sales BS, and plenty of really useful info. I don't know who else does test headlights, same cars with different tires, temperatures, 1000km etc, this is crazy useful shiiieet
@@paulf3353 he does. I follow his reviews for years now. actually he talked me into the EV world. And now with my own ID4 on delivery he showed me a lot of useful stuff of this car. and...in this world, someone, who's positive and honest....it's not common ....me like!!
He is 10 steps ahead of everyone. No other car reviewer/reporter goes to the depths Bjorn goes. Next new car I buy will have been approved by Bjorn first. LOL
How long before OEMs start putting the "banana box test" results on their websites? 😁
The fact this VW guy knows about the banana test, is a credit to you 👍
This is real world people.
It was so good that people and brands got aware of importance of social media exposure.
This proofs that you guys are way ahead of most countries Europe and worldwide.
Not only on EV, but mostly on people's mind.
Kudos! To VW and Möller bil! They really want to reach out to people and electrify the world. 👍😊
LOL. Kudos to VW for understanding who's who among "influencers" and targeting the guy with a huge Tesla audience. It makes me want to consider a VW in the future. They are obviously interested in actually making a good BEV.
Watch Sandy Munro dissecting the cars
Simply enjoy the new episode with Harald, such a cool and nice man!
Rear drums very sensible on RWD EV's, as you/Harald explain the Regen does most of the work. Even on ICE cars I've found rear discs tend to need replacement due to corrosion before they're anywhere near worn out.
Exactly. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it a little longer than "omg drum brakes bad"
To be fair, dual axle disc brakes are really only required for very dynamic driving (racing for example), or repeatedly crossing the alps for example where fading can become an issue on the downhill parts. On EVs even the downhill part is not an issue usually, except when the battery is full.
@@Soordhin yeah breaking power is not the problem you should be able to stop in the same distance they just cant handle the heat
Yeah after winter, lots of highway driving and not a lot of braking, (driving it around 2 times a week) my rear disks, 2 years old also start corroding quite a lot 😂 (and my car is a fossil, on LPG)
Exactly. Specially on hybrid cars (which also do regen)
During my little sporty test drive with the id3 tour, I recognized after a few stronger brakes very bad brake behaviors. And also on the Autobahn from 150 to 80 km/h.
As engineer I would say the drum brakes are not strong enough for the car weight. The brake distance is ok, but you need more power on the brake paddle.
And I had a lot of starting issues due to iced drum brakes. Two times I called the ADAC.
I agree drum brakes makes a lot of sense. Also love the blue color, but the dark gray is also interesting. Thanks for the video!
Why do they make sense?
@@chrishart8548 Less maintenance and lasts longer. My 2015 Volt's rear brakes have only 25% wear (134 000 KM) but still needs to be replaced soon because of rust build-up.
Congrats Björn and also to Volkswagen. They did a smart move and it was interesting ✌️
Harald was so enthusiastic and genuine. It makes perfect sense why you got so much access Bjorn, he’s one of us!
Drumbrakes in back is fine with me. Makes totally sense.
Cheap to manufacture expensive to maintain win win for the car makers. I don't buy cars with drums short sighted people help yourself. If its a lease vehicle who cares
Another good advantage of drum brakes is that they never rub. Unless you brake the shoes will not touch the drums even a little bit and this gives you less rolling resistance.
Cheers, this gives a better look on the flatness of the under carrier.
A list of all the colours for the ID4. 1st/non1st EU/US - [Uni / Metallic]
[EU] Dusk Blue [M]
[EU] Mangan Gray [M]
[EU/US] Gletscher White [M]
[EU] Honey Yellow [M]
[US] Mythos Black [M]
[EU/US] Scale Silver [M]
[EU/US] Moonstone Gray [U]
Soon?
[US] Kings Red [M]
I really like the 2-tone look of the white car with the black accents. Very sleek. Goes perfectly with the simplified VW badge.
VW Norway director showing and explaining the MEB platform shows their commitment towards user experience. It will be nice to watch a full video of him about MEB platform and him explaining the design story of ID3 and ID4. They are putting a lot of trust in Tesla Bjørn afterall.
I am happy to see you gain some much deserved recognition for your hard work! :D
Very good Video again 😊 - and the VW Manager ist outstandingly nice and good informed! I like the blue one the Most 👌
I have seen them up close in reality... prefer the white
It comes to your preference. I am actually living and working at VW / Near Wolfsburg. We see them everyday from now on. 😊
@@ipodtouchniklas I thought they are built in Zwickau?
@@dashcamchris but tested over here, developed also 😄😉
Cons of drum breaks: 1) drum brakes suffer from good ventilation being practically closed if subjected to a high level of demand, they tend to overheat and cause a loss of braking capacity. 2) as the shoes wear, you have to adjust them so they don’t lose strength and balance with the front brakes. Pros: 1) decrease rolling resistances disc brake pads tend to drag the rotors slightly when the car is moving. 2) Cheaper than disc breaks
and with EV the drive wheels do the majority of braking with regen so there is not much use
I've put 220,000 KM on an American gasoline car, original rear brakes never showed significant wear. With regen you won't get brake fade.
Plus they self energise, in a car application they don’t require a brake booster like discs do, in a trailer they can be applied with a small electro magnet and a 12 volt circuit.
I'm with you about heat dissipation, nevertheless, most of us don't have problems with heat, and with good engine braking or regenerative braking, that is compensated. About brake adjustment, the self adjusting mechanism does the adjustment automatically. Greetings
What a master of not hitting his head on the lifting machine!
Like a Ninja
Really interesting to know about the drum brakes. I originally thought VW were just cheap, and now I know. Thanks
me too
Clever ... I remember years ago I was using drums and then I had to go abroad for 3 months and the drum cylinder was jammed. Good if you move the car each day. If you are going away for months don't engage brakes on the drums. Not sure how you do that with this EV
@@onederment My car still has drums in the back; in 25 years & 260000km I never had problems with them (and there were times where it wasn't moved for months). So I guess it's all down to regular maintenance.
@@onederment I have a car (1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo) with drum brakes at the rear and it was parked for 12 years, and they work like if it was parked yesterday. I love drum brakes, really reliable, and for most of us, we don't need the heat dissipation capability of disc brakes, with good engine braking or regenerative braking they work 👌👌 and with really good reliability. Actually I know some classic cars with drum brakes at the front and they work really good too. Greetings
if they are so good, why don’t they put them in the front too? lol
It is really great that VW is giving up some income in order to make a better car. And also they risk to be seen as cheap by replacing disk brakes with drums. I have problems with my ICE car rear brakes because I drive gently and the rear brakes are not used too much. Good job VW!
@@TheSteinbitt And they have avoided becoming Nissan.
If drum are solving problems front drums would at least make sense
@@TheSteinbitt well if discs are on the front they may as well be on the back.
@@TheSteinbitt drums or disc (rust a lot) i know drums usually look hideous with rust after a couple of years
@@TheSteinbitt I've never had any issues with discs rusting
Maintenance every 2 years sounds good. Also nice to hear that the GTX is coming.
More driving keeps the brakes moving and less driving makes them rust faster.. Makes sense :P
@@G_man_ Yeah. Back in my Audi days I never had an oil change without having to add oil in between. I have zero faith in EVs being more reliable as I've seen so many weird things fall in cars. I bet VW added a timing belt or something else in their EV's. 😂
@@Perkelenaattori I’ve bought BMW’s for the past 20 years and then tried the Tesla Model 3. BMW’s preventative maintenance requirements and general repairs just kill you financially. To keep their ///M cars running right, it’s a lot of money. The model 3 has 65k miles on it so far and has been flawless. I won’t be going back to BMW unless they really design a nice high performance EV that is as maintenance free as the Tesla.
@@aussie2uGA I've owned 6 BMW's myself in the past 12 years as I drive about 75k km annually and I've always bought the service contract for 160k kilometres which covers all the oil changes. Then again I've only had 520d's and not M's. Edit: Also my BMW's have been extremely issue free.
I have had three cars with drumb breaks. Suzuki sx4 (fiat sedicci). Good car, still driving it. Never had any problems with the drumb break (2009, 180.000km). No garage, parking on a hill, no problem even in the winter.
Smart roadster. Drum break no problem (2004-2014, 130.000km).
Seat Toledo 1l. Car was a peace of shit, because is was often broken. Rust everywhere. Drum break makes lot of problems. No rust but leakage. (92-00, 120.000km)
No I looking forward to our new id3 in march. The drumb break was one reason to buy it. Not the Main reason. Hope i dont regret it. If something is Bad engineered it can be worse although in theorie it might be better.
Greetings
What a bummer that not even VW can install the staggered wheelsizes correct. Disconcerting! 🤨
Even in my Prius 2 with its minimal regen, the rear brakes would rust away quickly here in Germany. All sorts of recommendations were floating around, like search an empty place and drive backwards as fast as possible to then brake hard. I’m totally with VW here. Also nice to see they are embracing YT, see e.g. out of spec interview. Thanks Björn.
Drum brakes rust aswell, you just don't see it and it doesn't impact braking efficiency so much.
Not in a closed system they don't.
@@HeikoQuant how could it be a fully closed system? What about brake dust etc? Even clutches aren't really closed (on some vechicles they are very much open)
@@piciu256 Brake dust isn’t much of an issue in a vehicle that doesn’t use the brakes to do the majority of slowing down.
@@SirHackaL0t. still, looked up these brakes and it's really just a standard drum brake with labirynth seals, there isn't much water getting in, but it also has a bit harder time getting out, much better than disc brakes when rarely used, but still does rust.
I just don't like the "no rust" statement.
@@piciu256 I had driven with my cars through rivers and no problems at all. I have more problems with discs because mud and gravel. Greetings
Great video.
Especially to see the director of VW in Norway to talk with Bjorn about the car.
And he knows about the banana box test.
Keep it up Harald!
I would go with the blue for the ID4! It looks fantastic. :)
Haha meanwhile in Holland... nobody turns their head after an ID.4 anymore, plenty of them around here😄
I’m by no means a VW fan but in real life it’s just a really good looking car, the proportions are spot on. I have a feeling that it will easily pass the ID.3 in popularity.
Now I'm REALLY looking forward to the e-Tron Q4! If it is based on the same platform and has similar features to the Q55 but has the ID.4 efficiency it will be the one I buy. As it stands now, the ID.4 is top 3 on my list, and that's all due to these videos. Great job with this info. We don't get this level of in depth reviews here in the US.
Nice one, Bjørn!!! The honey yellow is sweet. Great insights on the brakes and the aero dimples. Cool stuff.
Hopefully Berlin Y gets a similar colour, it's my favourite. A little bit more away from yellow and more goldish would be perfect. ^^
@@kasmopaya2676 that would be awesome! With the blacked out trim, that would be such a nice combo!
@@RichardSingleton0318 My thoughts exactly my friend. Goldish with the chrome delete trim. Hmmm. Nice! Just a few months, just a few months. Whoooohooo!
The moment when Björn knows more about the car as the car company representative 😄
"show case our new weapon with ID4?" Voltswagon goes to war.
At least PSA heard the VW rumbling on and decided to announce that there will be an electric 308...
a lot of ID3 owners reported stuck drum brakes in winter. Is it really a fully closed item?
Smart collaboration between VW and Bjorn. Pretty good recommendation when Bjorn is a huge Tesla fan, to have favorable impressions of the VW ID.4. Might have to trade in my 5.5 year old sleeper 2015 VW e-Golf SEL here in California, for an ID.4. Won't give up my Lux TDI Touareg, yet. Love the real leather seats on that one.
I'm sure many can go without using the brakes and use regen most of the time in good weather. I find myself even with my Tesla using brakes a even when I have regen. Many get irritated here in my area of US when you brake too soon and slow down well before turning or a traffic light. It's a bad behavior by stopping so quickly. Many might stop doing if they have regen braking to save brakes.
Agreed this is nicely put together.
Excellent interview, Harald seems a great chap - Interesting that with his enthusiasm for the banana box test perhaps VW could promote its use as an international standard.
In normal daily driver there is absolutely no difference in safety with drum brakes compared to disks. Drum brakes are just as capable as long as they dont heat too much, which is why they are not used on race cars and which is also why they are used only on the back, where the brakes are less stressed.
THATS MY UNCLE AND AUNTI TEST DRIVING THE CAR! hahaha
Did they get dusted down with the disinfectant gun? 💨
The blue looks great.
Good. That's why I think it's really strange the "new" Zoe have gone from drum brakes to disc brakes... 🤷
Drum brakes makes sense!
I wouldn't mind drum brakes in the back for my TM3SR+.
Would be interesting if it were possible to retrofit drums if I need to fully replace disks and pads.
Thanks again and again Bjorn! I really like these reviews.
I ordered the ID4 , First in White. I Think it suits the car very well.
to be honest, the yellow is very funky, but I'm not sure I'll still like it after 2 years.
Thanks for the feedback!! I thought these are specially designed for this car, and are closed. That made sense. But maintenance free is always relatively...
I went with white as well. The blue is too purpleish for me. Not a fan of the yellow.
I just saw the first two ID4’s “in the wild” at VW in Kingston, NY USA. It’s noteworthy that I am 75 miles from NYC and I get my car review of ID4 from Bjorn in Nortway - seems like VW is paying attention to the value of an independent reviewer who does quality investigations.
Man that yellow is gorgeous i love that color man looks really good, i also saw this silver a darker kinda silver with a red stripe above the windows where they usually paint in silver below the roof that one is also nice but maybe was from a press car ir something
GTX with an additional motor, not engine. Thanks for the information and the drum brakes as I never thought about the scenario you gave.
Very excited for the Volkswagen line up of BEVs. Great job Bjorn.
I like the frunk on our Model Y. It is not wasted space for us. That said I really want to drive the ID4 for the utility of its autopilot, its comfort, and its efficiency and range.
Really good video. A lot of good input from Harald as well!
This is how every car company should treat reviewers.
We had a lot of problems with the rear drumbrakes freezing up after driving the Id3 in snow. The car have no diffbrake and only put power to one wheel and you are stuck with one brake frosen and the other spinning. Nothing a hammer would fix on the frosen side but its irritating.
My rear disc brakes corrode also very hard, because of rare use and less load in the trunk! He speaks similar to Henrik Kristoffersen! Very nice!
I like the thoroughness of their design - there are aerodynamic fairings on the lower suspension pieces, to help them reduce air turbulence. And your pointing out the trailing side of the recessed bolt holes being slightly modified, for the same reason.
Drum brakes in the rear! I have no salt problems where I live, Mauritius, the temperature will be very gentle on the batteries too.
You have salt water though ;)
@@dashcamchris All around the island on the beaches, not on the roads.
@@pritambissonauth2181 - I’ve lived near beaches. The fog & almost always had some salt in it. Same for the salt air near the beach.
@@TraditionalAnglican Not as effecting as salt put on the roads, are you from Mauritius?
@@pritambissonauth2181 - Lived & worked in Santa Monica & San Francisco for a few years, so I’ve seen what even salt air can do to a car. It’s not as bad as salt roads every winter, but it still rusts out cars when given enough time.
Thx VW for participating !
I see how that makes "perfect sense", at first I was VW went backwards. Good explanation.
Bjorn, I like the mustard color. I believe VW has redeemed themselves and the ID4 is going to be a big hit. I finally saw one in person this past Thursday and it looks great.
The ID4 looks good. Looking to see more for you on the ID4 tests etc
Bjorn, Hope you can still find some slippy roads so late in the season. My experience test driving an i3 is that having regen in the back only can make the car very unstable in snowy road. It's like breaking with the old hand brake all the time.
Also from my Québec winter experience (sand, calcium, shiiiiiit) with my former cars (VW included) with drum brakes in the back, it all get rusty and crunchy.
Looking FWD to see these drums after few winters.
Have 2 friends with VW (non BEV) and Drum Breaks and both have problems this winter with frozen breaks at the rear.
People need to be remembered why drum breaks are no longer used, vw is here to teach those with bad memory :).
@@TschingisTube year maybe that's the real reason 😄
i know its a bit off topic, but could you please test vw id 3 pure with 150 PS an 45 kwh net? its the cheapest version of id3
The last car I owned that had drum brakes was a Golf 2 :-). So it feels a bit weird to see this again in 2021, especially on a big and heavy car like this. But thinking about it it seems to make sense.
Off-road trucks (like the ones fire fighters use) still use drum brakes, because they are better protected against mud etc.
Trucks for street use are today equipped with disc brakes.
Car trailers also use drum brakes, because they are simple to operate mechanical.
Hey Bjørn, the main reason for drum brakes is weight. The whole setup of hub wheel bearing, drum and brake actuator weights less than a disc setup (with brake calipper and so on). In EV every change or development is in relation to weight reduction or friction reduction.
How drum brakes is ventilated if it is a closed circuit? You have particles and brake dust also inside the drum brakes that need to go somewhere. . I dont think that is is 100% sealed, if not..water can still come inside and start the rust, which you will not see, but the problem can be real.
I would think towing a trailer with any frequency would put the rear brakes to work some? Never thought about it much, but adding 500 - 1,000 kg increases the work total and shifts weight distribution....
The main problem with drum brakes is overheating, but that's not an issue with EVs. Most of the braking is done with regen anyways. The only time when the battery might not be able to absorb enough energy is in cold weather - and then the brakes are well-cooled as well. Hence it makes perfect sense to use drum brakes in the rear.
The yellow is indeed quite nice looking. I'd like to see the red in the sunlight too.
-Matt
The Tornado Red is a standard VW color which is on almost every model VW makes.
Very well done as usual, thanks for the walk-around, looking forward to the in depth.
these brakes use different tech. they are designed for the EV.
The rear drum breaks is a system on it`s way back on the EV`s now, other will follow VW.
Really hope not I hate drums. So many springs inside and the drum always gets stuck on the lip caused by the drum wearing away .
Bjørn, can you please show us the ID.4 tow hitch mounting points in the underbody?
I love drum brakes, they're reliable and for most of us, they do the task correctly.
Your Review convinced me to get an ID4 over a tesla. Cheaper too. Thanks.
All the cars I've had in the last with drum brakes rusted inside and that rust rattled around inside the drum occstionally jamming up the wheel.
I might actually prefer no brake on the back and just rely on the front brakes and regeneration.
will never be legal
I have a drum brakes at the rear for 12 years now. 0 maintenance, 0 issues, works like day 1. And i bet they will still work perfectly when the car is 20 years old. But I use them from time to time, meaning, i break with the drum brakes for instance from 60 km/h to 0, on a red light or something.(handbrake) Don't know what will happen if you never use them. Because that trick is not possible on EVs. The car has to do it, or there could be problems indeed. Will not be able to test that, my next car will be Berlin Y and i keep it 20+ years, basically forever. (:
@@kasmopaya2676 it will depend on the climate where you live, rust is the biggest problem in the UK for cars.
In theory drum brakes that are well sealed should not rust....
This video proves the importance that VW gives to you! Tesla Bjørn for the win!!! 👍
Lifetime sealed coolant, lifetime sealed transmission, now lifetime sealed brakes? Lifetime usually meaning to the end of warranty 😅
That's exactly what it means.
I don't like yellow, but I would call that Gold since it's metallic. , so it's more classy looking IMO. But I prefer the metallic Blue.
While I do agree that drum brakes is a good idea they are in no way maintenance free.
why? they need one moment new brake plates on a normal car, but as explained, these brakes are almost not used in a EV, and that's why they are maintenance free at this very car.
@@pilotandthecity8527 it’s a mechanical device and all mechanical devices need maintenance. Even more so if the are exposed to salt and grime from the road. And not used is not necessarily a advantage. Brakes need to be used regularly to function correctly. But as I said. Drum brakes is a good choice because disk brakes would need more maintenance.
Totally agree re drum brakes. The friction shoes in there have a much greater surface area and will wear much slower, and the are protected from the elements too.
no they arent lol. parking brakes are drums inside rear disc brakes and rust out from road salt. also drums in salt area are the worst as they get rusted on. needing a sledge hammer to get the drum off ripping the pads and hardware with them
@@bobspurloc or, lol, just use the correct tool for the job, i.e. a hub puller. And they’re called shoes, not pads.
If they used quality anodized rotors and calipers rust wouldn't be a problem...the issue is the cost cutters won't let the engineers spec the appropriate materials for brake rotors.
Yeah. White looks good! Not boring as it does for most
When will it be in the U.S.? Can’t wait to drive it!
at 5:50 I'd like to know what the ground clearance is?
My question is: In an emergency situation where max braking was needed, how well will this perform vs all discs? I'm guessing, not as well. Traditionally, drums in the back were seen as a cost-saving measure.
Most of the braking power is needed in front wheels. Rear axle will have drum brake power + regen from motor.
I saw those when I was there getting my 2.1 update a few weeks ago. Not as large outside as I’d expected in a good way. I didn’t like the yellow. Reminds me a little of the e-208 yellow which also sucks. :D
Yes. The blue in my opinion is too purple like. So I went with white and the black top.
The yellow is nice and in a limited quantity.
Rear brakes are really only being applied to stabilize vehicles while braking.
Downside is a mechanic will charge more to work on drums and the wheel bearing now requires extraction to change.
Great review Bjorn
Greetings Bjørn, I have an idea for a video. Noise comparison between the different charging stations.(v3 Superchargers are more noisy) Coil whine, yes or no and so on. Or does the charging station suck power 24/7 for no reason, for instance a screen that runs all day long. (wasting energy) All that stuff.
Also BMW iX pre-orders are through the roof in Norway. Looking forward to the TBTP.
Seems like VW has gotten the message. I like the white one best
Am I seeing dual-piston front brakes?
Harland, what a nice guy.
Thanks for the video Björn. Interesting to see how much VW invest into EVs in Norway - many charging stations at the dealership. My dealer only has one. 11kW only.
What would be the cost for replacement the battery after the warranty ended?
Great video as usual Bjørn. I wonder how much difference there is between the 21'' and 19'' wheels in terms of efficiency. and also 255 on the rear wheels seem a little much idk?
Maybe the wrong way 'round tyres ( @10:39 ) improves range and nobody knows it yet ? !! Did anyone try it? !
Why is the “honey yellow” limited to the first cars only?! If a customer wants a 4x4 later in this colour they should get it as well.
why drum brakes?
Because trucks also have drum brakes, but that only works in conjunction with a retarder (or Electric Brake)