Israel in Crisis: A Conversation with Michael Oren
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ย. 2023
- Part one of a two-part discussion with Michael Oren, former Israel Ambassador to the US, member of the Israeli parliament, and author. Michael Oren is one of the most articulate and knowledgeable Israeli figures about the current war with Hamas, a region in which he had extensive involvement while in the Israeli government. As opposed to a recitation of current events on the ground, this discussion focuses on a series of critical social and political issues the situation in Israel: why Oren sees the war as different from all that preceded it; why he maintains that a cease-fire would be catastrophic for the Jewish state; what is the current mood and morale in the country; how terrorists are bred in Gaza; and more.
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Thanks Harry!
Thanks so much for this Harry. I know a lot of your left of center fans will not be happy with this interview, but they need to hear it most. I'm very familiar with Michael Oren's work and he's no radical right winger, he's telling it like it is, great interview.
If only Ukraine could respond to Russia like Israel can respond to Hamas.
Great discussion, thank you. I think Michael Oren has a good and practical solution for the aftermath. So, I would add another element that seems to be vital and that is birth control combined with a program to educate and incentivize it.
This was a viewpoint that needed to be re-emphasized.
Harry I have a lot of respect for you and am grateful you invited this guest, whose views I would not likely have been exposed to otherwise. I am sad, though, to have heard this. Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself. From Hamas. No one would say Israel should do nothing about the October attacks. Israel has joined its enemy in barbarity, which solves nothing. You asked good questions about whether there is a distinction between Palestinians and Hamas. There is, and that's the point.
No. The Arabs who falsely use the name Falestinian are dedicated to the eradication of the indigenous people. Arab Israelis are different from Hamas, but not those Arab invaders and occupiers who call themselves by a false name.
Very informative. I'm still watching and listening, but it's clear, Michael Oren is well informed.
Bs
@@alanburke1893 Bs, what!?
Civilians should not be targets by terrorists or governments.
Superb discussion. Thank you.
Thank you for this interview!! Such great ideas from your guest.
Excellent discussion. It's so nice to hear a discussion on this without so much of the main stream
cable emotional spin and Gotcha attempts on Israel. The Noa Tishby interview was great also.
I will stick with MALCOLM NANCE... Hes slready spoke on THIS nightmare with his experience and expertise. He spent YEARS there, "YEARS"... speaks their language... And had his boots ON the ground within ... oh lets not forget he is a SPY.
I find it unacceptable to kill human shields.
How about the militants who are firing from behind those human shields? Hamas has said the people aren't their problem. They dont care about those people. The only use to them are as human shields. They want them to be killed.
Harry, 'this is almost an unprecedented time... 'even if anyone is on the fence about 'what's happening in Israel, 'we need informed info...
I can't say I agree with your guest... I was around in 1967; learned at my father's footstool World History...
keep it up, Bro! Thank you!
The fighting seems likely to end in either a lasting Israeli occupation and security presence in Gaza or a whole new set of restrictions on Gazans and border barriers. It is equally clear that the ongoing fighting is likely to do more to divide Israelis and Palestinians than push them toward a peace settlement.
South Lebanon was internationalized under the UN and look how well that worked out.
It would be useful if you would interview Ilan Pape and Gideon Levy on this matter, if you have the courage to do so
Thanks for this Harry. I hadn’t thought before about the cost of temporary pauses on the Israeli military and society. I wish the ambassador had talked a little about how important it will be, once this phase of the war is over, to really take on the thorny issues that peace will require, like the settlements in the West Bank. I hope the US is telling Netanyahu, ‘OK we’re on your side 100% but after this you need to get serious about peace and a 2 state solution’.
After this, the idea of a two state solution (when there already is an Arab state carved out of 80% of Israel, Jordan) is dead. There is no conceivable way that Israel can allow an independent terror state in Judea and Samaria. It would be suicide. And that is what the PA is, a terror state. The majority of the PA budget goes to paying terrorists.
Folks, it's not complicated. Israel, backed by the United State of America, has tremendous power. The people of Gaza have very little power. If we are going to end the bloodshed, and resolve the conflict (not just this segment, but the 75+ year conflict once and for all) we must recognize the power disparities at play. Israel has a right to exist, in peace and prosperity, and so do Palestinians. Unfortunately, these truths are not stated up front in Harry's discussion. That is a failure. The following is my response to statements that, yikes, are made in the five-ish first minutes of this conversation. I encourage you to doubt what I have said here, and to examine this topic more closely on your own, and to correct me where I am wrong. Peace, god bless, and let's not allow this bloodshed to continue as it has for far, far too long.
1) The war has been away from population centers -> Then why 1,200 killed in Israel and 11,000 killed in Gaza? That's a lot of population. 2) Ceasefire is surely mass murder -> Not only is the Israeli government closely guarding it's borders now, you say that Hamas was surprised at their success... Hamas got (pardon the term) lucky? Either Hamas is an existential threat or they got lucky. Maybe a bit of both but it can't be fully both. The 4,500 kids who have been killed in Gaza are certainly neither. 3) There are now 250,000 Israelis displaced -> without mentioning the more than 1,000,000 Gazans now displaced. 4) The international community has tried to, referring to Israel's supposed self defense, tie it's hand -> Literally no one has done anything material to stop what Israel is doing. And if I'm wrong about that, certainly not to the extent that would justify the analogy of having one's hands tied. I'd argue that Israel acts with near total impunity. 5) Mentioning the "cries" regarding ceasefire -> They aren't "cries", they are principled humanitarian calls to stop killing innocent civilians, especially children. 6) No allied deterrence in the region -> Two U.S.A. aircraft carrier strike groups and a nuclear powered submarine in the neighborhood (at least). Need I say more? We are not letting anyone existentially threaten Israel. Nope, no way. 7) "It looks good to shoot at the Jews." -> I think not, we all think not. That being said it doesn't look good when disproportionate fire is returned by the Israeli government. ugh, my stomach is sick, i'll finish writing this later. 🕊
Yes!! 💯 I wrote a whole comment similar but not as well said as this. for some reason it disappeared but thank you for saying this and I might add, far more elegantly than I did ❤
75 years?.....more like 2000+ years....my heart breaks for all the poor people, dying for the rich, who are not anywhere near the suffering. Shalom, Salam, peace ......It's all the same meaning And they all worship the same God, its only the "prophets" that are different. Organized religion will destroy humanity. Jewish ,Muslim and christian blood all looks the same...when it is spilled onto the ground😥😥...........
The problem with the Israeli PR campaign is that it hasn't factored in the age of social media.
We've seen the carnage wrought by relentless bombings.
We've heard members of the Netanyahu administration use words dripping with abject bigotry and dehumanization.
Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself, but no one believes that 5-year-olds are hiding Hamas terrorists. This mantra was met with derision from the outset.
The 10/7 attack was unconscionable. People were tortured, humiliated, and murdered.This is a fact, it's not an excuse for turning off water, electricity, food to innocent civilians.
It's also a fact that Egyptian officials notified the Netanyahu administration of an imminent attack...they were ignored. As were reports of Hamas training exercises. Netanyahu was far too busy trying to decimate Israel's democracy and shield himself from corruption litigation.
The Netanyahu administration had moved forces from the border to the West Bank...in their fervor to expand illegal settlements and weaken the Palestinian Authority. Nothing excuses the horrors of the attack, but it does explain the utter humiliation of Netanyahu and the IDF and the unending cruelty and brutality they've shown, trying to rewrite history.
The nightmarish response of Israel is not merely the actions of self-defense or even deterrence. These are war crimes no matter how fast the Israeli PR machine spins.
In the end, it doesn't matter what we say today. Israel will be stained throughout history by the devastation they've wrought. New terrorist cells will emerge, fed by the images Israeli PR can't hide.
Even now, Arab-Israelis are jailed merely for expressing sympathy for Gazans (not Hamas, innocent Palestinians). Even now, Arabs in the West Bank have been injured and killed for their land...the Israeli fanatics who do so act with impunity.
Again, the photos, videos, and first-hand stories of Palestinian women and children will be recorded for posterity.
The pretense that Hamas will be eradicated to ensure the future security of Israel is part-fantasy, part-PR, and has endangered Jewish communities throughout the world. The wave of antisemitism is as horrific as it was avoidable.
The arrogance of this interviewee is the definition of the banality of evil. Most monsters don't see themselves as monsters.
You make zero sense
@@loriolson1143 the statement makes sense
Very disappointing that you did not ask why it took the IDF so long to respond!
“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”
- Golda Meir
One of the biggest lies in history. Perhaps if Mabovitch had stayed in Ukraine or the US and had not stolen Palestine from its LEGITIMATE and INDIGENOUS population they would have had no reason to hate so called 'Israelis'.
This utter garbage about attacking Israelis because they are Jews is LIES. The Palestinians attack Israelis because they have STOLEN their country and been murdering and expelling Palestinians since 1948. Religion is just an excuse.
Oh God Harry. Will always admire you and love you. Mowing the lawn. Turning the turf. Lots of people urged USA not to react militarily to 9/11 but seems many people were not listening. Lot's more to say about this but I will have to leave you for now. Maybe see you again in 2024
Agree. This is the second time you've given your platform over to undiluted Israeli government propaganda. I'll miss your pleasant vocal cadences and may consider resubscribing down the road.
To end the bloodshed, you need to get rid of organized religion. Otherwise, I have no opinion on what to do or who's right or wrong.
"Mowed the lawn"? Wow. Really?
It's a phrase used by Israel. That's my understanding, Look it up, I may be wrong.
The Netanyahu government delivers bags of cash to aid Hamas. Give me a break.
liar.
I have never liked Hamas but I have lost all respect for Israel, and now against both. Israel is at war with women and children!
I don't believe you ever had any real respect for Israel.
@@AndyCutrightwho cares what you think?
“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”
- Golda Meir
With such an immature and racist attitude, I've no respect for you.
Re-religious extremists. Hamas should have been blocked in the mid 2000's, but the anti-Two State folks (anti-Oslo Accords) needed Hamas, and Jihadists as a symbiotic peer. It's all about building polemics. I like Harry's instinct on questioning parallels and asking for more nuance in analysis, but 9/11 doesn't fly as a parallel, either does Vietnam. These comparisons show a lack of critical thinking and are provocative rhetoric to mute America questions. Also, using gardening-planting metaphors is over-the-top cynical, "turning the soil", "mowing the lawn". Re-Ike's platitudes about the wrath of riling up democracies. Israel aspires to democracy, but is not there yet thanks to Netanyahu and his cronies. Nobody has a place for Palestinian suffrage, and resolving the notion of a Palestinian State. The Palestinians have become all valuable as a foil for larger animus, no one will really work to resolve their actual problems. Israel will triumph territorially, but democracy won't. This "existential" moral certitude empowers Putin, Xi, Erdogan and others who aspire to annex and/or cleanse territories for essentialist motives.
The rhetoric of this guest appears even scarier than the previous one that was on. He is pushing a no ceasefire under any circumstances policy to start. He also, tries to equate a finite # of deceased Israelis to that of dead Americans(for reference 9/11 is referenced and it didn't hit 52,000 deaths). I find using a percentage of total population as a massively false equivalence, especially in this case. He references tunnels under hospitals and that the children of Gaza are indoctrinated from a young age and even attend "summer camps" where they are trained to use weapons and taught to hate Israel. These are scary stances as they seem to be stances that could be used to justify bombing hospitals or killing children. If you can justify the killing of the sick and the young you can justify the killing of anyone.
I hope you give Palestinians equal time. This guy is a/was legislator, and he sounds like it. The interview was propaganda. (50,000 dead, cease fire = existential threat, etc) Now, your listeners have heard Israeli talking points.
Hamas wants to kill you and you want to interviw them? How dumb can you be?
I disagree with this guy and there should have already been a two state solution. It is all on Netanyahu s head. He was supporting Hamas for years till what 2019 over the PLO who wsnted a two state system. We all know what has been going on and how many demonstrators Israel shot and killed just last year who were Palestinians protesting for freedom and a two state system.