Dean Park Station Video 9 - How to Wiring up Peco Turnouts for DCC with Peco Point Motors
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2013
- Weekend engineering works hit Dean Park Station! No trains operating the mainline thrrough Dean Park Station! In this video I show you how I wire up a Peco Electrofrog Turnout for use with Peco Point Motors and for use with a DCC layout. I clearly show all the equipment needed and tips for better running of loco's over the point blades. I have tried to make it as clear as I can...it really is very simple!
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Hi... this video is without doubt the most informative piece of information on wiring electrofrog points that I’ve ever seen.
Like a lot of returning modellers ( and I go way .. way...back to basic DC) I decided to start again with DCC.. and although I have a technical background , I just couldn’t grasp the wiring for electrofrogs. Fast forward through dozens of videos that made it impossible to grasp.... then I found yours.. and the proverbial penny dropped!! It was clear and to the point! Many many thanks for putting this on. Brilliant!!
Brilliant. So glad you enjoy and found it helpful. I have since made a newer video on this too. With on screen diagrams. Which of you get puzzled again you can hopefully found useful. Thanks for watching and for getting in touch. :-) Dave
Great advert for Peco Products but it does show how they have provided all the items required for this difficult concept area! This is an excellent presentation and clarifies the "mystery" of poit wiring. As you say there are alternative methods using different components from other suppliers but the satisfaction of seeing it work is a fabulous feeling! Thanks for sharing.
One of the best instructional videos around! Great to see jargon-free material.
As always "great video" and thank you for the amazing 1-2-3 tutorial on the wiring of the switches and point motors.
I am just about to order some of these very points for my new DCC layout. I am returning to the hobby after a break of 40 years, so your videos are very useful. i particularly like the tip for soldering the new connections from one wire and cutting it to make the two feeds.
That's the clearest I have seen that explained and removed the horrors of electrofrogs, thank you. Electrofrog from now on. Thank you
Thanks for the videos you do these make life so so much simpler than any others I see. Much appreciated
Hi, wow. Thanks for that amazing feedback. I recently did a newer video on this topic, search for Dean Park 198, I think that’s the video. I gave diagrams on the screen to help explain it even more. Thanks again, Dave
Excellent instructional vid bud. Very easy to follow, looking forward to seeing trains running on your layout.
Thanks for that info on seep, your not the first person to mention that to me lately....very valuable info to have before buying them! Much appreciated! Cheers
I may already have commented on this presentation, but I'm going to do it again. This is probably THE BEST explanation of point wiring I've ever come across. After years and years of "mystique" on the subject, and it's still being the cause of great anxiety - even to us "seasoned" modellers (lol), I find myself referring to this presentation time and again as a "comfort blanket". Thank you for the way it's done and you should make a DVD of this alone. It would be a best seller!
Hi, wow thanks lol. I am so glad you understand it. It took me a while to get my head around it, but like you I still find myself referring to it time and time again to remind me what wires are to go in what connections! Cheers for that comment, you've brightened up my day. Dave
It's been some 20 years since I was involved in the hobby of Model Railways and Boy! Has it moved on a pace I've been trolling around the Internet for "Good Video's" on how to wire up for DCC and this is one of the best! Great Work, Well Done!
Hell Dave and thank you for the tutorial. I'm and old dog when it comes to model railways and I've been a keen member of a model railway club for many years. I try to encourage as many people into the hobby as possible and usually no matter how many times I explain to my friends on how to wire up electrofrog points and the various motors - it still always confusing them. Your video is perfect for them to understand the basic principles and after showing it to my friends many of them have a far better idea and more confidence on how to cope with point wiring.
There will be many who say use this motor, use that motor etc but this is not what this video is about. As you say it's about the basics. Many thanks for your time for making this video. Ben
Hi Ben, I am so glad I was of help to your friends. I was baffled by it at first, but when I worked through the process I found out it was easier to do than I thought....I eventually understood all the polarity jargon too!
Thank you so much for taking the time to give me this great feedback. I really appreciate it. Dave
Hi Dave, this is a great how-to Video for The turnouts and will be a very good help for me wiring my own turnouts ! Thank you very much. Regards from germany
Hi, no problem, glad it was of help to you. Good luck with your wiring!
I've done a lot of reading about doing this but never been convinced I fully understood. This video was excellent and I now know what to do, why and how. Thanks
Good luck and any questions just ask...I might be able to answer them! I hope lol.
Very Nicely explained!. Thanks for doing this video
Thanks so much for this. You've given me the knowledge and courage I needed!
hi....thanks so much for getting in touch. it is easy when you get your head around it. I hope you do well and I wish you all the best. Please check out my other videos and 'how to' videos. thanks again. Dave
DaveClass47 Subbed a few months back and am making my way through the videos. Excellent stuff, sir!
thanks for your ongoing support.
Great video, have just received delivery of peco point motors etc so will be following your video closely this weekend and giving it a go.
thank you for making this video. peco makes great products. have a good day from a USA fellow model sir.
+James Smith Hi James. Thanks for taking the time to message me. Its my pleasure to make videos for my fellow model enthusiasts to watch and pick up tips from. Warm Regards, Dave
Thanks for taking the mystery out of PECO for me
Hi Dave. Love your layout.. In videos it seems almost real..As usual, videos you do are very informative. I've acquired 4no electro frog points that have no wire coming from the frog or doesn't have the small wires to cut on the switch blades. I've Hornby short points which I'm going to change for medium to long Peco express points. Also will be using seep point motors. Thank. Oliver.
Hi again, well finally got one working successfully. Had issues with the point not moving across even though it was lined up perfectly, got a cdu unit and still would not move point across but narrowed it down to lack of power. Invested in 16v gaugemaster power supply to power a separate bus for points and works a treat.
Thanks for the video, good Peco information..
Thank you for the great information. I will be using Peco Insul-Frog switches on my layout which will be operated via Lenz DCC system. I will be using a accessory decoder which can control up to six turnouts. Each port has a red, a green, and a black outgoing wire which assume will go to the extended pin turnout motor. If I understand what I have been reading and studying, I don't think I will need an accessory switch, as the accessory decoder is the switch. However, I will need a mounting plate. Anyway, I'll be doing much practice wiring and soldering before anything goes onto the layout. Again, great video - much appreciated.
Great, good luck with that!
I am keeping my points DC as not to confuse things with my DCC controller. I have a separate bus wire for all of the lighting etc as well, this will run off 12 dc also.
I want to be able to do several things without relying on the one dcc decoder. But that's just my choice. There are others who want it all in one package.
Dave
Many thanks for this its given me the confidence to go ahead with electro frog points and dcc wiring. I'm just starting to order the stuff I need to build my new n gauge country terminus. 5 metres of flexi track one double slip and 6 points (turnouts) and the bill for track point motors and accessory switches for dcc etc etc is currently just over £300. Model railways is NOT a cheap hobby!!!!
First rate, thanks for explaining this issue.
Cheers. Glad it was useful. I did another, newer Video on this with diagrams. You might find that helpful you, it’s Dean Park video 198. Cheers. Dave
Thanks.. on another topic the main Edinburgh /Haymarket SB is it scratch built or a kit thanks..
Hi Dave
Many thanks for the prompt reply. I think I'm a little clearer now.
Mike
Thank You! This was very helpful... true it is expensive... I have a railyard of about 10 Peco electric frogs i have to make DCC ready... not laid down yet... but doing a ton of research.
Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work... Lance 🚂
Hello Dave. Thoroughly enjoying the videos despite the fact I model in N. Personally I would have gone for tortoise motors or one of the many equivalents, especially now they can be picked up so cheap. The videos are excellently put together and the way you have described the items without having your head filled with a thousand items of junk first is quite refreshing. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I try to do things as clearly as possible. Some guys do videos and they 'assume' you know stuff first, I try to talk to viewers as if they are just starting out in the hobby, so there is limited jargon and fancy words. I don't mean to patronise people, but I liked to watch videos that spoke plain English when I first started modelling. I hope I manage it in my videos! Cheers. Dave
You coming down soon bob?
fantastic video, well done (gosh just seen it's 7 years old!!)
Exactly mate...its great fun to sit there and direct the flow of traffic from your seat! Less hassle, more realistic, but sadly not too cheap if you've got a lot of points! Go for it...get yourself wired up asap!
Thanks m8 that's helped me make my mind up. And keep up the good work and videos comeing
Cheers, appreciate your comment. Glad you liked it.
Yep, to reiterate what others are saying. I think I understand this now. Mind you I'm new to model railways albeit recently retired so I'll be referring to it a few times before I do it. Thank you so much.
Hi Philip, thanks for getting in touch! Glad I was of some help. Dave
Great to hear you've had success! Its great when everything just works as it should isn't it? Yeah 16v is really required to power these effectively. I invested in a 16v controller to run the point motors off as well.
Very very factual mate great job !! I would love point motors but it will have o wait till the next layout !!! Cheers Lewis
I was getting confused with this. The more it was explained, the worse I got lol. This was easier to follow, thanks. I'll watch it a couple of times more but I'm much more confident about it now cheers.
I was the same, it took me AGES to get my head around it! But when I 'got it', it is actually quite simple. Cheers. Dave
Well you know, when I was getting into models railways again last year I needed electrofrog turnouts, point motors and polartiy switching explained to me. I hunted and hunted you tube for a idiots guide. There were some ok instructional videos. So when I had 'mastered' the technique I wanted to share it, so more half wits (of which I included myself in that category) would be confident to have a go themselves! I deeply appreciate your kind comments mate. Cheers ;-)
Cool, will look into that for future builds
Thanks for this video, it has helped take out some of the "mystery" of electrofrog points wiring and motors. Just have to take the plunge now I guess.
Hey you and me both...I am itching to do so much, but time and reality get in the way lol. I keep reading magazines and watching videos and thinking "I want that on my layout", "I need to do that"....but I am only 6 months into a new layout, so I'll give myself a few years to work down my "To do" list!
Great video, thanks
No worries, get to the class 26 when you can! I am in the process of making Scalescences Platforms for the station right now...its taking ages, but I have a total of 7 metres to do! I was working on the curved part last night, and am looking forward to finishing this part soon. No point in rushing it and making a mess though. Cheers
No problem! I hope it gives you the confidence to try it! Cheers
Thanks for the great video
B&H Railroad thanks :-)
No prob, glad to help if I can! Things moving slowly just now, taking my time to ensure its just the way I want it! I want to rush it, but I know that just leads to mistakes! lol Cheers for now.
Hi! thanks for letting me know...not using them myself I wasnt 100% sure lol. Cheers.
it'll be interesting to see the results. the curved island platform I've been working on was scratch built using poly filler, luckily here in the USA the stuff is dirt cheap, I got 62lbs of the stuff for $14 at Lowes!! The results are pretty good, I was going for an aging look to the platform to go with the scalescenes medium station (which btw looks amazing but took several days to build!!). I think i'll have to use the power sander when I do the terminus stations though... :)
Great thanks helped a lot
P B cheers. I’ve since done another video which might help as well, th-cam.com/video/Et3vuedbZ98/w-d-xo.html
Hi, good luck. Just refer to the sheet of instructions you get with the point motor, turnout and accessory switch and watch my video and you'll be fine. Any questions, just ask! Cheers. Dave
brilliant... i'll have to pickup some peco motors on my next order from the UK... i
Hi, it really is up to you.I would say Electrofrog are better as 1) they look better - less black plastic showing at the Point Frog and 2) some loco's dont like going over Insulfrog as they can stall when their pick up wheels hitthe plastic frog. Electrofrog allows for smooth running, but there is extra wiring required if using point motors.But I am really happy with my electrofrog points with DCC and point motors, so that is what I would recommend.Hope this helps. Cheers. Dave
Great Vid. i use insulfrog so as not to mess around with the wiring too much. I dont use the accessory switch on my point motors but i have used a switched wiring loom straight onto the point motors.
Firstly, thank you so much for your kinds and encouraging words. I was like you, I tried to get my head around it for so long until I tried it and thought I would share my successes with everyone.
DCC to DC...I suppose in theory you change the power source & make sure you have no opposing signals causing a short circuit. You would have to watch that parts of your track were not dead due to insulated fishplates. IU would recommend getting all your DC locos converted to dcc, its the future! ;-)
a nice solder is the silver based solder, it flows quite nice and has a better conductivity than just lead-free.
Hi, yeah it was a bit of a 'peco-fest' on display there. I now buy my wiring from Rapid Electronics as its much better value for money. I would also look at using SEEP point motors, but I was relatively comfortable with Peco's instructions and so being new to the art of point motoring I stuck with Peco this time. Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
Excellent presentation, thank you. Question: I have my layout set up so that it can be powered from either my DCC system (NCE Procab) OR DC - not at the same time, of course. Now I understand what I need to do to solve connectivity problems with the point rail as a poor conductor of current. But will doing this for turnouts so they work better on DCC cause issues when I run the layout with DC? I would think not, but would appreciate whatever advice you can share. Again, thanks, and I'm going downstairs to snip some jumpers and solder jumpers from stock rails to points.
yeah i think your right mate.im going to be adding point motors at the end of the month so i just want it all to be clear as i have never done this to any of my layouts.
Good video mate. I might give the peco motors a try as the polarity switch looks nice and robust. I have a number of points i've yet to wire up so it would be interesting to compare the seep and peco motors.
Hi, give me your email address and I will take a photo and send it...send me a personal message. Alternatively, you can wait until I do my next video in a couple of weeks and I will show you it then. Sorry it wasn't clear for you. Once you see it, all will become clear! ;-)
Nice video! A tip...try to use tortoise motor and pull off spring feather on the turnout. Now you have slow motion turnout(s)!!
I use DCC turnout decoder Lenz LS150 for the motor.
Hi. I run it off a DC unit (an old hornby one that has a 16v ac supply connection at the back ofthe unit). Picked a couple up from ebay for like £20 each! Hornby R965 is what I use. Running off dc saves taking more power from the Bus wire and just keeps things simple...my bus wire will have enough feeds from it without 20+ point motors etc coming off it too. You can of course use the DCC unit to control and power them. Hope you find this helpful! Cheers
Thanx for getting back.would like to go all DCC but to many locos &cost!!!
Go for it! It is not difficult when you get into it! I was nervous about going electrofrog, but I guess its the way forward and runs better with DCC so I am told! Any problems or questions give me a shout!
Hi, Cheers. I had watched you vid on Seep motors, but had already started to go down the Peco route. Are SEEP motors with polarity switches reliable? I will (eventaully) have a raised TMD with only 75mm clearance underneath from the bottom baseboard, so although Peco motors will fit in that gap I had considered SEEP for that tight area! I'd have to have the whole TMD section laid on a lift out section to repair motors if they broke but I really need a robust unit. Thanks again. Dave.
Hi, yeah I decided against the tortoise motors, they are more expensive and with my planed Depot and rest of layout I am looking at about 25-30 points, which would be way more expensive using those as opposed to Peco. Best value for money is SEEP motors, so I may use them on the raised section of the layout where space is tighter. Thanks for your comment. Cheers
Hi, erm...not yet! lol. I have wired up a three way Peco turnout. That was fun!!!!! It had two motors and I had real problems with it shorting out, but this was sorted by a bit of web searching for a wiring diagram (the peco wiring diagram missed out a vital wire - which if I had been given I would have solved the short problem quicker!). If I do get a scissor I will do a video, but they are expensive to purchase.
Dave, would you recommend snipping those wires and adding the other two connections to connect the two rails even if your not using point motors?
Hi, I have since gone to Rapid Electronics and got some 16/0.2mm in 100 roll for just under £8 a roll. Much much cheaper than peco. Thanks for the tip though. Much appreciated. Dave
I agree, they can be on the pricey side. But honestly, I found them much easier to install than anything else. I'm pretty new to the hobby and I'm not an expert with any electrical equipment, so when I saw that tortoise switches only need 2 cables to switch, that's what made me what to buy them over any other ones. I do have some Atlas switches that came with my turnouts but I decided not to use them. Your video is still very informative though.
Ok good luck with that. Get in touch if you have any other questions! When the points are working its great fun flicking levers and seeing the trains switch tracks from the comfort of your seat lol!
Hi Dave,
Firstly, what a fantastic layout and first class videos, thank you, they have been so inspirational and helpful.
I have a question if I may.... I want to rewire my electro frogs as per your method, but I can't afford all 72 motors at once! If I wire as switched polarity will they still work before I can install all motors or will cutting the bandings stop them working manually?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Keep up the great work!
T
Hi, thanks for your comment. I wouldn't cut the bandings/mechanisms. I have points that are not yet connected to the point motor and they seem to work ok. I just have all the wire fitted in place for when I get around to fitting the motors/accessory switches. Dave
I wire the red up to the positive rail on the point and the black to the negative. I wire the track droppers (that feed into the bus wires) the same way. It is important that you keep positive to positive and neg to neg....if you see what I am trying to say. It doesn't matter which colour of wire you use, as long as it is wire to the correct side of the accessory switch for you. Also, the green ones go to the common return directly to the controller....
Ok thanks ! Hope all is well on the layout.
Tim
cool tutorial
You explained that so even a half wit like me can understand.
Ian
I have found the seeps to be quite reliable. I have about 20 installed at the moment. However I have noticed a problem with one or two of them that I'm yet to investigate. I think the polarity switch on them has got dirty as they are not enclosed.
In terms of space they are very good. Only about 20mm high when installed.
Yup, but some guys on here have reported reliability issues with the Seep. However, I am sure they are just as good as the PECO and I am really considering using them on areas where space is tight! Cheers
Good luck with that! It was the four motors in such a tight area that put me off as well as the overall cost. Let me know how you get on!
Hi Jamie. I got my sheets from various retailers. Peterspares. com sell Jarvis cork,2x3ft rolls. I used 1/8" for the mainline to give a realistic shoulder when ballasted. I used thinner 1/16" for the station to stop the trains being too high for the platforms! I did buy sheets at Kernow Model Rail Centre,but they are sold as flat sheets & you have to get them to slice them into equal strips for you or the 1/8" stuff cracks when rolled. Either way cork is cork, it all works. hope this helps.
Hi Dave, if you are not using point motors at first but using electrofrog points do u still need to use insulated fish plates...thx mark..
No problem...glad you liked it. I will check out ANA to see what they are like. Please feel free to subscribe to my channel. All the best. Cheers
great vid thanks for the info, i am about to change 20 hornby points to peco electrofrog with switches etc :) Pricey!!! lol (don't tell the wife)
Hi I am a bit confused the two wires that go from the fishplates to the point motor can I piggy back my the two wires from the bus dcc or do I put separate feed for dcc as I have a layout based on CJ Freezers updated Minories and as it is a portable layout I have 9 electrofrog points on a 54 inch board so as to simplify connection fro the other two boards I will make .The reason I ask is that basically the points run into each other as space is limited only a couple of short bits of track here and there so basically do I put in separate droppers or piggyback on the point motor to track wires .thanks love the way you explain things that even a novice can understand .
The two wires (red and black droppers wires) from the fishplates go to the ACCESSORY switch, not the actual point motor. The blue wire also goes to the accessory switch. The wires to the point motor are different. Cheers.
Great video really good and clear just wondering where do you get the cork board from ?? B&Q?? thanks looking forward to seeing more progress on your layout many thanks.
Jamie shaw
Glad to agree with you, we are all brits together, sod him - good that you too have found Rapid, bravo Mr Everard Junction eh? I'm still trying to work out which wire I need to buy for DCC - yes 32/02 Bus, but how thick is it? Blade Splicers take 6.3mm but I'd thought wires were thicker - ditto confusion for droppers too - how long or short can they be?
Again thanks for your videos, sensible, well put together and clear to understand, you have given me great hop for success.
Regards
David
Thanks Dave,
Do you mean take them up again and then cut the bandings?
Thanks
T
In bandings do you mean the small wire than needs clipping? sorry, I thought you ment something else! No I clip them before laying and solder the small wires on as per the instructions in the turnout and as shown in the video. This relies on good pick ups on the loco to avoid stalling until you have the accessory switch wired up. Dave
You've spent a fortune you say. I was thinking exactly the same. All your stuff is top notch peco. It 's easy to get carried away though. What kind of uncoupling do you use? Standard GB tension couplings?
Hi, I am still using the tension lock yeah. To re couple all of my locos (around 40 of them) and coaches, (over 150 of them!!) would bankrupt me! lol Nothing wrong with tension locks anyway! lol. Dave
So just to make sure I understand. Even with DCC you need manual switch to actually get the turnout to move/change direction? I can’t get it to turn from my DCC controller?
Hi putting peco point motors in can you tell me when I through the switch the power goes off the v point.and test light goes out switch it back again and light and power comes back on,any i dears ???
LOL same here!! if only they knew lol. Good luck. Steve
Yes I understand that but as the switch is not actually powered until it contacts the track can I use scotch locks to connect the dcc from the bus to the red and black from the switch to the track .
no. The point motor is wired to a 15V AC power via a switch, which is back at my switchboard. See in my future videos...I show point motors in situ under the base board. Or go to the peco website. they show you how to wire up a point motor. Hope this helps.
thanks dave trev.
hi was going to go dcc,but changed my mind,but I have a load of electrofrog points,just for dc do I need to insulate them.thx mark.
Hi, I would still use the insulators yes. The points come with easy to read instructions, and it will best advise you what to do for DC as well as DCC. You can use the point without any modifications for both DC and DCC, but what I showed you in this video was for better DCC reliability. Hope that helps? Dave
Do you need to cut the wires if your not using point motors.
I've not altered any of my points and dcc works fine.
Hi, you can actually leave them as they are out of the box, but the peco instructions say that for better performance you remove wires....as I have polarity switches on my point motors I snipped the wires.
I was like that for ages....didn't understand how it worked, then the penny dropped and it was clear! However its get complicated again when you start using 3 way points with 2 point motors etc....so my advice would be avoid them and stick to normal 2 way points! ;-)
Question dave if you was using hand of god to change the point would you still snip wires and do the soldering wire bit as where i want a point putting there is a framework in way 👍
Hi, the purpose of snipping the wire and soldering is to ensure the point blades are always powered, no matter how dirty the contacts between the black and the outer rail gets. You can do this if manually moving the points too. An un-modified point relies on keeping the contacts clean.
@@DeanPark thanks dave 👍hope your well
Thank you for the very informative video. Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to do it with a tortoise switch machine? They are about $15. I ordered a few tortoise but I haven't hooked them up yet. I'm just curious what your opinion is.
Hi, came across this fantasic video on points.congratulations you'v nailed it.Been trying to get my head round it for months.Now with this and Everard Junction I fill convident to make a start on my layout.
Question:-- what would I have to do to switch from DCC one day to DC analoge another day--not using both at same time.
ie insulated fish plt wiring??? cheers andy
Can you help with a problem I am putting in electrofrog points for dcc but I have a E Z command basic dcc to power the points can I use a 16v dc transformer to power them or will there be a conflict on switching polarity of the points with the dcc power as the Bachman is basic and I can't see how to switch the point by the Bachman controller .thanks
also can i ask how and what you will use to power the point motors? will you be using a separate dc unit or running them off the bus wire from your dcc unit?