Stellantis is in the s**t
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, I blab from the heart about how Stellantis and it's current situation don't look good for the future of the brands that are part of it.
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Stellantis is going the way of pre-2008 General Motors:
- WAY too many brands
- Too much cost cutting.
- Too many rebadged cars.
- Disastrous reliability.
Yes. I agree. And Stellantis, like GM will probably get billions in subsidies from government and then ship lots of their production to China.....
@@chrispenn715 Dodge have just announced the Dodge Attitude economy sedan for Mexico, which is a rebadged Chinese car, the GAC Trumpchi Empow. But I think the tariffs will prevent Chinese-made Stellantis cars coming to the United States in the near future. Wherever the product comes from, Chrysler and Dodge having such a limited model range is not good IMO.
@@chrispenn715Gotta do more than talk about do something about Stellantis...
All the Stellantis Cars are amazing!Love the DS Modells!
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl I'm glad someone does 😊
Stellantis is the new British Leyland. They have a truckload of brands with a distinguished history but they are destroying them one after another through a combination of Lada-grade quality assurance, shameless greed and a management that clearly can't ever get anything right.
Honestly at this point a modern Lada is better quality.
@@toni8003 it's chinese chery and Renault copycats. No lada's cars are theirs: they all are copies of foreign car brands.
@@cvldblvvded4071not true.
@@nygelmiller5293 name one Lada car that isn't a rebadged Chinese car. I'll wait.
@@cvldblvvded4071 Lada cars since around 1970 were badge engineered. Pioneers
Stellantis are changing their name to 'Atlantis' - because they will sink without trace.... 😂
@@chrispenn715 LOL!
Stellantis actually means Atlantis under the sea.
@@comcarcluband all decisions by management made after ten Stella .
lol... There's footage of China's BYD Execs. Leaving Chrysler to Buy American Division. The Following why I will Never buy Electric Vehicles (EV's) :
I would throw away my cellphone though, at work it is used as an Authenticator in jobs.. I have lived without cellphone coms internet or otherwise for 6 whole months no communication with relatives or anyone.. Certain jobs didn't require it... Another thing Cellphone or Laptop are miniscule Battery Packs. There are Recyling Centers are present in Mutiple Locations in each State for these Devises. There are only 3 in the United States.. None in Hawaii and I was in a Conversation with Guy there. He said that there are Junk EV's and Battery Packs Stacked 30 feet High all over and Millions of them.. This was on June 2023 and in August to Mid September 2023 6 weeks as I recalled there was a Hurricane. I case you didn't know the Chemical Reaction with Water and Lithium-Ion, ( Fires for 6 weeks) Its like pyrotechnical... You could try to clean the Air while you drive your EV, and still with yourself when you discard it. While it poisons your Ground Water and the animals that drink from it.
Cool I am Happy I never had Children. Great Futures.
V8's Forever 👨🏻👍🏻🏎🏎🏁🏁🚩🚩🌲🌲⛰⛰
In California there were 2 years of Record Rainstorms now we're in a Drought, Pouring water to stop these fires is silly. Not enough energy to charge these and not enough water to shut fires they cause 7 + hours of fires and here up to 5 days in a container, toxic fumes and smoke... Not to mention the to what happens to the corrosive Acidic orange brownish GEL the bad Battery Cell Leak into our Ground Water. In the United States there were 4 Lithium - ion Battery Pack for EV's in the Unted States. In March 8 2024 the one in Pheonix Arizona Burn for 10 Plus Days.. California doesn't have a Recyling Center due to Environmental Impact.. So clean the air while it is in operation then Pollute it while on fire, Pollute our Ground Water.
I am Happy my V8 gets to be reforged into either a new engine or something else... when in 30 to 60 years.. I know of Mustangs that have the same engine since 1969. I seen videos of Tesla Owners that had Tesla burn after 6 months others after 2 years had the Battery replaced twice where in that is cheap and reliable... The Flat tire on a CyberTurck is $1,000 per tire... enjoy putting rubber down more often ...
👨🏻👍🏻🏎🏁🚩🌲⛰ V8's Forever !
Theory: this was planned to get rid of cheap car brands.
That sounds like British Leyland all over again 🤣
BMC more like. The aircraft equivalent was BAC.
Unfortunately, I think that if Stellantis fails, the Chinese brands are going to go on a shopping spree....
Yes, Chinese brands lack heritage and Stellantis seems to be happy discontinuing heritage brands.
How is this a bad thing?
@bird6691 china is a horrible communist dictatorship that has yet to make a car that works properly after 10 years let alone 20 years
@@bird6691 Most of the time the original team that created the positive brand equity is no longer involved, so they are literally banking on a brand name and positive connotations it has to win over customers without having done the work that earned it in the first place.
If Citroen left the group they should partner with Mazda, another company that isn't afraid to do things its own way.
They also need to remember what a proper Citroen is.
Yes please. Citroens are so generic nowadays
@@christopher4162 they got tamed by PSA's accountants but they still can do some magic.
Even Mazda's own division ɛ̃fini, actually used to sell Citroen models in Japan. Yeah, for real.
@@Box1-lf9hv yeah I have heard about it. But if Mazda got Citroen for real maybe a dream of Citroens with the Rotary engine will come true :D. As a reminder Citroen CX used to have Wankel Engine but the idea was scrapped in the last second due to fuel crisis and reliability issues of the rotary engine.
@@patrykperonski5459 Exactly.
Rebadging cars for different markets really isn't an issue. Like the same car being sold as a vauxhal in one market and as an opel somewhere else. It just depends on brand prefference in a country. Where it does become a major issue is when the same car is sold in a single market under multiple badges. That will only canabalise sales from eachother.
I agree on the ds brand. Nobody asked for that, they should just have made citroen the upmarket brand, like audi is for volkswagen. Turn opel into the mainstream brand like VW and peugot into the sporty seat part of the brand.
And fiat maybe into the skoda like brand. More simple and practical and a bit cheaper then the rest.
We are told this executive made Vauxhall Opel profitable. Yet if you look Big Car does a year by year record of differing brands sales in Europe. Opel which was the mass market German car has all but disappeared.
They just wanted to do like Cupra (Seat Spin-of) or Abarth... But... With the current models? They really means nothing.
If Stellantis goes under, which government do they go to for a bailout?
Well, they are Dutch now 🤣.
All of them. Because why would they not
@@WhiskyPoems no fudging way!
Germany would pay for everything if they can guarantee that Opel factories on German soil are reused as refugee centres.
The American, the french, the Italian and perhaps the German one! Eventually the group would be dismantled. If governments decided to push for their national brands, then Opel would belong to VAG, becoming a cheaper alternative to VW; Citroën and Peugeot could be merged with Renault (please, remove the Peugeot family from business, already, since the crime they did to Citroën is unforgivable); FIAT would be in big trouble (Alfa would be easily sold to VAG, but the rest would suffer quite a bit, it could be the end of Lancia, FIAT and Maserati), from the american side, Chrysler would finally be killed and GM or Ford would take care of the scraps.
Fiat doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. PSA should split from FCA and keep Opel/Vauxhall as a generic brand, Peugeot as a mid tier premium brand a la VW and DS premium cars should just be Citroens, I think it's a brand that deserves to move up to premium status.
@@gibraltarik surely if Citroen would be more premium brand they would have more creative freedom and be more innovative and quirky like in the old days.
Stellantis Chaos worse than British Leyland.
Fiat sells like hot cakes down here in Brazil, they have all sorts of subcompact vehicles ranging from hatchbacks to unibody trucks. They should sell these in other markets, they are crappy but they are insanely cheap
@@marciliojunior4919yep, the Argo, Cronos, Pulse would be good alternatives for Dacia in Europe.
PSA should've stayed as it was and put DS back into Citroen to make it an innovative premium brand that it once was years ago.
They can't get rid of Citroen...they consistently sell between 5 and 10 cars a year in Australia.
And it's one of the top 10 brands in Europe. Come to Europe, you'll see a Citroën in every corner.
That's really why I don't understand DS existing. Citroen always had unique charm, and was producing cars that would appeal to large audience as well.
With DS they took away lot of that halo that made Citroen special. And created a new brand that no one really asked for. There's isn't any real connection to Citroen DS and they delibirately tried to disconnect it from other Citroens as well.
@@jhutt8002 because since the 2000s they wanted to move Citroën to a budget car área, like Dacia etc. It's a crime since Citroën always made ubique cars, but that was the strategy: Peugeot had to come on top and Citroën below.
Isn’t Australian now getting dominated by Chinese cars since your auto industry seized to exist?
😂😂😂. Citroen? Lol. Virtually unheard of in the Americas. No market for French cars here.
What could go wrong when a conglomerate buys an endless list of weak car brands, then cuts quality and has the objective of killing off many of those same brands? It sounds like a disaster to me.
Badge engineering at it's worst.
It sounds like a coup. Want to stop us travelling? They are doing everything 'right'.
Stellantis killed everything. The first victim was a Citroen. they deprived him of the best thing: super comfortable, the best suspension in the world: hydropneumatics. Then they separated the DS line from Citroen and turned Citroen into a manufacturer of budget cars and invested only in the development of Peugeot and DS. Then they deprived Citroen of D-segment cars and the most durable and best HDi diesel engines. competition, e.g. Volkswagen has diesel engines. So how is Citroen supposed to sell? What Citroen had built over the years was destroyed in order not to compete with DS and Peugeot. Now they're taking care of your brands.
No one actually wanted that or had money to service it.
Let's be realistic, the Citroen C3 still sells well in the EU
Removing hydropneumatics was an engineering crime !
let us wait for the revolutionary C3 a and C3 e to come out of assembly lines; they seem both attractive and confortable - specfici schock absorbers - in a market like France where speed bumps are so hjgh and stiff 🙂
The 1st Stellantis products are still to be launched to market.
All the good or bad that we are seeing now is from the 10 years before Stellantis born.
Stellantis is a group with less than 3 years, how can you judge things that was decided before it was even created?
Only the products launched in Small Medium, Large and Space plataforms are from Stellantis decisions and we only have like 3 or 4 in 12 brands.
They started with one Jeep, one Fiat, one Alfa Romeo with the small platform the came from a new version of that used in 2008 or DS3 Crossback.
We need more 4 or 5 years to see anything they are doing right now.
Alfa Romeo is developing a i4 or Model 3 competitor, DS also.
People only see volume, but forgot about choose and the net income they have in the last years.
Some have more volume by brand but don't make money and have worst finances with costs from industrial costs.
As a current owner of an Alfa Romeo 159, it is genuinely depressing how the brand ended up, and it's the same for most of the brands under Stellantis umbrella. As far as I'm aware, FIAT should be doing just fine, they're selling diesel engines and commercial vehicles by the truckload, also badge engineered under Toyota for the commercial vans. this merger is a bit baffling to be honest, looks like chasing growth and market share at all costs, while backing themselves into a corner with their brand portfolio going overboard.
Fun fact, FIAT vans are actually rebadged Peugeots
Lancia sold more cars just in italy than alfa romeo in the whole world...and that's for years now. The current ypsilon is extremely popular. That's the reason they are investing in the historic brand again and will launch ypsilon, delta and gamma.
It likes Lancia showed middle finger towards entire FCA. They tried to get rid of that brand but Lancia survived.
@@patrykperonski5459Same with Chrysler where it can’t be killed but it’s like Stellantis really wants them dead.
Problem elswhere in the world is that Lancia for them stands for Delta and 037. Seeing that badge on blinged up Fiat feels like a mockery.
But they didn’t sell the ypsilon outside of Italy and most of the EU has virtually banned the A and B segment now. I don’t think people understand how important A/B segment was for stellantis and how this really was a death sentence.
In my country you only see a couple ypsilon in the wild and to be honest I tough the brand was dead until recently 😂 alfa romeo also was “d3ad” until the Giulleta
As regards who would buy Citroën, the answer unfortunately probably is a Private Equity Group, who will just try and extract as much money from it as possible before they run it into the ground.
Is Stellantis not just a private equity group in a dress already?
They have NO idea of the American market, they are RUINING Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, and Ram. Sell it to an American or Canadian company
before you destroy these great brands.
Jeep is the only part of current Chrysler worth saving. Even Ram is next to worthless due to the oversaturation of premium pickups in the US.
The 3 cylinder crap.... 😊
That would be the 2CV, pronounced Deux Cheveau
Koliko imaju fordovi cilindara i zapremine u motoru danas i tko je prvi uveo ta sranja mala od motora nego sami Ford 🙄
@@ernielaw thats two cylinder opposed not an inline three
@@ernielawThe Deuxchevaux had only 2...or was there an auxillary cylinder?
I wouldn't be overly keen on a car with a 3 cylinder engine, yet I have a motorbike with one and rather like it.
I work in car hire and Stellantis has become the main supplier overtaking Kia. Peugeot and Citroën are doing particularly well. The shear numbers of C3's and 3008's being delivered is staggering.
I have a 3008 (2023 model) which I have covered 34k kms in past 10 months. It's been perfect so far.
Kia are slowly becoming mainstream the sportage is better than the 5008/3008, Vauxhall always shafted private customers by selling a billion cars cheap to hire market with no care for residuals
Remembering the Simca Talbot Chrysler Chaos late 70 ties???
I know
The funny thing is that still produced a hugely successful platform (the Omni/Horizon FWD hatchback). Chrysler sold a lot of those as they fought their way back from bankruptcy in the early-80s, helped keep them afloat.
Yes, the Horizon...... long time ago...competes with Golf, Kadett, Escort and the rice burner fraction and the other 3 French...successful...but German motor press writes it to death.... In my village I had had an Talbot dealer, his second brand was Honda, the Civic cannibalize the Horizon.... Later the dealer sells Hyundai as second brand, the Hondas get eaten up, the Civic by Getz and Accent....
Now the chines starting up....
@paulfrantizek102 what really saved chrysler was the invention of the Minivan 😁🤣
I always though that DS was odd, I can understand the desire for a premium brand, but when I think of premium, I don't think of a small rebadged Peugeot hatchback. When I think premium, and luxury from PSA, I think more Citroen C6
That being said, I do love the DS3, a very stylish little hatchback, but not actually a DS-branded Car.
I owned a DS 3 Business EHDi until last year. And in the years I drove it, the car gave me a smile. It was the Citroen version and in 120.000 miles it did a very good job.
BL's quality will never be equally Note
Not even with the Puretech wetbelt engine.
@@user-yr2of8iw4q Wetbelt engines were a very cynical move, almost an internal sabotage to nudge us towards the wretched fireworks called EVs.
In Brazil, Stellantis is very strong. Finally Citroen and Peugeot sell well, Jeep sells like hot cakes (even with a very old lineup) and Fiat sells more in Brazil than probably the whole Europe.
But in fact there are a lot of brands cannibalizing each other, just like Fiat loves to do with their lineup historically.
I dont think Chrysler is profitable. VW tried. Daimler tried. Fiat tried. All failed. But somehow people still want it in the US even though nobody buys it. I'd make it a luxury brand for the chinese market, just like Ford is doing with Lincoln to finance the models for the US market.
Matter fact, the Ypsilon is kind of a rebadged 208/Corsa.
It's just a perspective from outside of Europe/US. It's crazy how Stellantis is still not profitable.
And, from an Italian car lover guy, you're 100% on spot. The new Y is laughable with the price it has, and it's just another 208 clone...
I bought a Citroen C5X with 100 miles on... a lovely car that had every conceivable extra that you would pay a lot for on any other make.. I then heard about the 'wet belt' issue with the 1.2 pure tech enging so I sold it with under 5,000 miles on it, only 11 months later... I lost £8,500.... a great car but the price drops like a concrete parachute and with no guarantee of long tern reliability..!! 👍🏴
Ooof! Yeah, the Puretechs have a terrible rep, but I actually had a guy in these comments telling me his 1.2 puretech was great and all you had to do was stick to the maintenance schedule and me and everyone else who thought they were rubbish should go and eat s**t.
@comcarclub I was assured that only high mileage cars were suspect... until someone mentioned..."or very low mileage one's where the belt spends a lot of time in the bottom of the engine in the oil".. as I only do low miles a year, that was what made my mind up for me..!! 👍
Runours in America they're going to sell Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep to BYD who need a manufacturing base there. There's a lot of anger about the loss of V8s when Ford and GM are still making them. Dealers have loads of inventory dating back to 2022 they can't shift as its way too expensive and interest rates too high.
GM couldn't make their European markets profitable and Stellantis can't make America profitable.
Indeed, totally different markets and mentality. I believe it's best when Stellantis leaves the American market.
In my fantasy world, Mazda buys Citroën, Volvo and Škoda then completely decouples from Mainland China and builds mega-factories in Sri Lanka, Taiwan and Melbourne, Australia.
I like that idea
What a weird thing to fantasize about.
@@arsic094 what kind of fantasies are not weird? Please share yours!
My fantazy world is that French cars stay French, and don't mix.
Left alone the french are excellent engineers. Big corporations... less so.
@@PlaAwa i fantacise about sub 15k euro, ~250km range electric Suzuki Ignis equivalent to buy as a second car and go to work with. But I get your point now 😅
Both PSA and FCA were a joke, of course the result of them merging is a complete disaster
PSA was forced by the french gouvernement because Citroën's economic status was unhealty but they did not wanted it to disapear
@@emiliestarsquid same with Chrysler, the US government bailed them out of bankruptcy
@@emiliestarsquid Thats true, but why did they buy Opel?
PSA cars were actually very good, more reliable than many.
@@Mnkskanal Because Tavares said, that a lot of potential customers wouldn't buy french cars due to their poor reputation. Having a german brand you can wrap the french tech in, could help with those customers. Reality (at least in germany) is, that Opel lost a lot of their loyal customers due to changes in engine options, pricing and quality issues.
I do want Peugeot and Opel to survive, though. Same goes to Citroen, Alfa Romeo, Abarth, Lancia and Maserati. Seems like Tavares is a greedy man who used to race cars back in the day, but now he definitely made Stellantis to look ugly.
The day that managers took over car manufacture from the engineers, that's when it all went downhill with quality engines. And NOT only Stellantis engines! 😢 Greed is eternal , and car failure is a great way to make easy money, real fast. 😮
You need a balance. Obviously SAABs were designed to an exacting standard by engineers but weren't very profitable. Soichiro Honda had a business partner, Takeo Fujisawa, to keep his (usually loss-making) extravagant engineering ideas in check.
*Accountants. An engineer usually becomes a manager as he gets older.
I still don't understand why citroen not make any hydroactive van or some 7 seater. When i saw citroen c4 grand Picasso i didn't understand why it not come with hydraulic suspension.
"the car has been so reliable..." last famous words, before engine blew up and suspension went in to permanent low rider mode. 🙃
@@Hk7762Tube I should've kept my big mouth shut, shouldn't I?
@@comcarclub probably, we will see what fix/repair you will be doing in the future and judge it from there.
On the DS topic, my neanderthal idiot brain thinks it's really silly to make it in to it's own separate entity from Citroen. Like, why? Who asked for this, who cares? Should have made it in to a badge on some high trim level or some interesting new tech for the existing selected Citroen models. Make DS the ///M badge of some kind of comfort and innovation. (just don't slap it on every thing like the *glorious* ///M badge). But that's just me, derp.
Any company that decides to acquire as many brands as possible is simply trying to kill competition, in any field. If a famous brand is eaten by another famous brand, it's not about if they'll retire the brand, it's when. The only exception is when that brand makes a unique product.
An unreliable car is no good to anyone, it doesn’t matter what the car is trying to be otherwise, it must be reliable. The DS idea was never going to be any good, the Citroen DS was a big saloon, long, low and wide, and its whole purpose was to be futuristic and advanced, you can’t repeat that by being retro or dumpy looking.
The worst casualty for me is Lancia, people have forgotten what it’s all about, Stellantis just treats it like an inconvenience, the Thesis should have been the car to improve things, but they got it wrong, a Lancia has to be a Lancia; we live in an age, where people, seemingly Europeans in particular, simply don’t answer conundrums properly.
Too many brands competing. I don't get the DS set up trying to be an up market Citroen. Stellantis should make more effort re launching Lancia as the luxury brand it once was (at least in Italian eyes ) and Alfa Romeo for the hot Hatches and saloons it used to produce , not lugging MPVs , as good as the Stelvio and Tonale are .
The only issue with in-house brands competing with themselves is if they actually compete with themselves, the group should only be concerned with overall market share or profitability, and not having any sort of internal price war. Sharing too many parts can lead to an identity crisis, but it many ways it's too early to tell what's going to happen.
It's not all that hard to sort out what each company should be aiming for, especially if you consider that each company doesn't have to be in every market.
I don't if any Chinese manufacturer would need a comfort-oriented brand. That would be the only option for Citroen brand outside Stellantis I reckon.
@@kimmohietala5359 problem with that is that the Chinese economy is in tatters, and their companies are beginning to retract their reach and investment. Apart from them, I don't see any other entity willing or able to spend the many billions Citroen is worth
Dongfeng have an existing JV relationship with Peugeot and Citroën in China so they may be interested. If anything it's a foot into the European market.
@kimmohietala5359 the Chinese have money but lack recognition in Europe. With Citroën they would get right inside France and Europe.
They will not sell Citroën.
lancia besides in Italy it doesn't exist,so it can go
Ds automobile is a useless brand
They probably can get good money for maserati but idk if anyone wants a sports car brand
The USA branch Could be sold imo
Peugeot,Citroën,fiat will not go anywhere opel it seems to b gaining popularity again but I'm not sure
@@comcarclub
China is collapsing?
Who told you?
IMF and the World Bank says otherwise.
You use Bollywood movies and Hollywood movies as your sources?
As someone who jumped from an Opel Astra G, to the Citroen C3 III, I can say that although the car has hard plastics all over, it's nicely built and VERY comfortable. It's not a fun car to drive, but relaxing, which seems to be something most brands unfortunately avoid.
I do have to say however, and even though I absolutely love the car, I would've prefered to save up 6 000€ more and bought a Toyota Corolla back then. But then again, all the fuzz about the Puretech engines still wasn't well known, but it's definitely such a huge mess that will forever stain the confidence of consumers.
Mine has the 110hp 1.2 Puretech, I've always treated it well going through the oil changes well before the recommended date and still, the timing belt was nearly destroyed at 76 000kms. I considered myself lucky, as the engine was still good, with no visible damage from the inevitable belt degradation, and is still nippy as heck with it's current 82 000kms. Stellantis, have already replaced the recommended oil, from 0W30 to 0W20, and three different types of belts.
I also need to add that, in order to get access to the extended engine warranty (in case the timing belt fails before time), you absolutely NEED to maintain your car in the official workshop. Third party workshops such as Bosch Car Service (whom do NOT invalidate warranties under normal circumstances) WILL invalidate the engine warranty, even those they use specific replacement kits provided by PSA.
So it's a win win for PSA, as the costumer is obliged to service their cars on the official workshops long after warranty expires.
This is an interesting read because improper maintenance and incorrect oil/change intervals are often cited as a possible reason for premature wet belt failure. You have demonstrated that this was not true for your car.
@@paulketchupwitheverything767 I remember when I took the car to get the wet belt replaced, the mechanic that took care of my car told me that a local car dealer had to pay for two 2023 208's engines, which blew up prematurely (roughly at 30 000km), so it's definitely an engineering problem which PSA tried to avoid admiting, instead blaming on costumers.
One might get lucky if the maintenances are done before the intervals. I think PSA mentioned the oil being changed every 10 000km's, but I've always changed it at about 7 000km. That number is also getting lower from now on, since the engine has started consuming more oil than usual after the wet belt replacement (which was high before, anyways). Also, this is another "normal" thing about the Puretech engines, the high oil consumption. Now, I need to make sure there's a correct amount of oil before any big trip.
I really miss the time when Citroën ment innovations end technology
With PSA it was just re-badged Peugueots and now in Stellantis its some low-cost (but expensive ?) cars. Now they dont have the Hydro-pneumatic suspensions anymore and yes, they still use the crappy 1.2l PureTech petrol engine 😭
(edit : sorry for my bad English, its 1AM in France
It won’t be a whole lots of brands competing with each other it will be a whole lot of brands that nobody wants.
I am really hoping citroen will go with subaru/toyota as that might spawn boxer citroens in the future, chances are slim I know but I love the idea.
Stellantis is now so big they don’t know which leg to stand on it seems.
As a Citroën owner who still drives a Xantia, I must say that the way they tried to rewrite history by redefining the DS name with some made up marketing hot air, and simultaneously wanted to turn the Citroën brand into the “Stellantis Dacia” (exaggerating a bit to prove a point), really made me dislike the company.
Lancia hasn't been a big name in the UK due to the reputation for rust whjch is why they were sold as Chryslers in the UK. Then there was the 300c, a great looking car but was very expensive in the UK and at the time it was on sale, our road tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) was hung up solely on CO² and therefore, petrol engined cars were very expensive to tax, and this was around the time when people started to notice issues with the DPF so having it as diesel only in the UK, under FCA, probably didn't help.
FIAT have been on the verge of bankruptcy many times over the years and have been bailed out several times. I have never thought of FIAT as anything other than cheap, basic cars, nothing luxurious about them but then again people seem to love the 500.
As FOR PSA, Citroën has lost the quirky things it was known for, such as the excellent comfortable suspension. Peugeot is trying to go upmarket and is getting very expensive, but at the same time they have killed off things like the Insignia Tourer in the UK as they were worried the cheaper Vauxhall was taking sales from Peugeot.
Under Stellantis, I think innovation has gone as all the cars they sell just seem to be the same thing. There's no real choice anymore.
Finally, FIAT and their wet belts which ended up also being used by other car makers: what the heck were they thinking with that?
Wet belts are a PSA thing. Fiat made excellent engines.
These days cars are produced which people don’t really want or can’t afford.
You have Chrysler, Fiat and Peugeot in the same consortium. How is it possible for that company not to be a disaster?
The Chrysler Group has a decades long reputation of lagging the other 2 Detroit based companies in reliability and initial quality. Peugeot had to pull out of the US market along with Renault in the 1980s because they couldn’t compete with the German and Japanese imports. Fiat was known as Fix It Again Tony when they left the US market the first time. None of these brands are competitive in North America. Jeep has been ruined by Chrysler and Ram is either purchased for a Cummins Diesel or someone that can’t afford the F-150 or a GM truck historically. They are cooked here in the states. The CDJR dealer by my house has 2023s on the lot they can’t move.
@@charlesharmon4926 One of the CDFRJ dealer near where I live has 2022 units on their lot.
@LudwigBeefoven still trying for full retail ?
Carlos had a knack back in the day of doing good. He saved Opel from extinction from GM which I was delighted about. But Stellantis was always dubious. If you're going to have an umbrella organisation over these companies then keep them as separate functional units(brands) - easier said than done. I'm still sad for the disappearance of Saab.
They treat dealers like crap, they pulled my local Vauxhall decent sized dealer trading for over 25 years, they pulled the franchise agreement but said a new one would be issued, then 3 months before the deadline they, changed their mind and the dealer have lost their main site. Then a larger Peugeot dealer have been given Vauxhall so its clear they only want the really big franchises in uk
@@DashDriver-z1r motherf**kers. The bigwigs must so out of touch they must think that sort of attitude won't come back and bite them on the arse
Chinese manufacturers would snap up these brands if they ever decided to sell.
Like MG. But the real MG died when they stopped making the MGB, and the dopey managers watched as the MX5 cleaned up.
@@paulketchupwitheverything767 Ironic that it was a possibility in the 'land of the free' LOL.
@@G-ra-ha-m That did indeed happen. There was a strong suggestion at the time that open top sports cars would be banned in the US, which didn't come to pass. Mazda made a shrewd but risky move with the Miata/MX5, which paid off. It was a much more modern car than the MGB, which still enjoys popularity with enthusiasts.
If Citroën is sold off, it will probably be snatched up by Geeley.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Citroën have a history with China and is a recognised brand there.
The dacia spring is a citroen china e vehicle in a new coat
It was not only Tavares who saved PSA.There was always money from the French state and from a firm in China.
Peugeot and Citroën cars are manufactured under license in China by Dongfeng, so I guess they would be the most obvious choice. The most common taxis in Wuhan (which is where Dongfeng are based) are Citroëns.
Hopefully, someone will take over ownership of the UK plants as I don't want to lose my job, lol. Working atmosphere is horrendous working for stellantis!!
Couldn't disagree more. Stellantis are doing exactly as VWG but it's early days. I don't think VW, Seat and Skoda are differentiated anymore than Peugeot, Citroen or Vauxhall. I also don't think DS is a failure, the DS3 was a huge success and now the upper end of the DS Range is very popular in China where they appreciate quirky luxury cars over the German big 3.
I'm probably biased though as I've owned 9x AXs, a ZX, XM, Saxo, Xsara, Xsara Picasso (crap) along with 3x 106s, a 206, 306, 306 Cabrio and a 308.
The difference is that VW's US market strategy is simple, take their regular VW designs and make them bigger and with cheaper fit & finish (e.g., bigger US version Tiguan, big & simple Atlas instead of Touareg) -- it's not that successful, but it's low risk. Whereas Stellantis have Dodge, Jeep and RAM which have very little overlap with their European products. The big luxury Jeeps use the Alfa Romeo Giorgio platform and a new Dodge ICE sedan could use it too, but there is already pushback on the prices of the large Jeep SUVs and they can't charge the kind of prices they would for a Maserati for a Dodge performance sedan.
DS Car sales peaked in China in Feb 2016 with 3200 units sold. In March 2024, 34 DS cars were sold in China. Why would the Chinese buy a European brand when the have BYD and Zeekr etc? Even Volkswagen is now really struggling in China, and now the number 2 brand, when it was, for many years number 1. (At the end of 2023 - DS did announce they were pulling out of China).
DS set a target to be Argentina's number 1 luxury brand within 10 years of launching. They are just now having some success with with 79 units sold in July 24, but still behind Audi (111 units sold), BMW (126 units sold) and Mercedes (616 cars sold).
I still feel DS will be profitable because of the sheer amount of underpinnings and parts it shares across the Stellantis brands.
but this is not how it works. A company needs to sell considerable numbers in each key market. And in Europe, DS just flopped. And where they ever on sale in the USA ? And by the way, there is no single french brand in the top 30 sales in Germany. You need to accept, that something is going horribly wrong. But to put it in perspective, the VW group isn't doing particularly good as well. Cloudy times ahead for the car industry.
@@augustiner3821 I used to buy Citroens in spite of their very poor reliability. I liked their purposeful quirkiness but a year and a bit ago I purchased my first ever Volkswagen Group car - I simply could no longer bear the poor service from Citroen Dealerships and their costly maintenance/repair charges. Cheap unreliable cars that are costly to repairs.
DS cars are sold in the UK from 'Stellantis and You' Dealerships where your can buy Fiats, Vauxhalls, Peugeots, Citroens, Jeeps etc. So if you buy a DS, you are simply buying a Fiat, Jeep, Alfa etc. With this model, essentially your are offering what appears to be different cars but are actually the same - less cost for Sales People. Less Dealership Outlets, Few manufacturing sites etc. But it does mean that the total number of cars from all their brands is crucial.
In 2023, the number of cars sold by Stallantis in Europe fell even further behind that sold by the Volkswagen Group.
I think the Stellantis model is lazy and dilutes innovation. There is nothing unique about any of their brands, and so far DS deserves to disappear. 🙂
An idea: instead of shutting down the brands maybe you should change Stellantis CEO for not developing them properly?
It’s like the Avengers of unreliable, over priced brands, all they need now is for JLR to join them
LOL!
My two-penn'orth: stellantis are trying to maximise sales by removing parts support for any models not currently in production, or that's what it feels like. The 2.0 HDI (163 bhp) engine, and cars attached to it, shd be supported to 2026, but already things like steering racks, windscreen wiper motors, and on Citroën suspension pipes, are no longer available. This is illegal under EU and British law, but no-one is taking this up. I don't know what the solution is, but its not the one stellantis are pursuing.
The problem with EVs and traditional automakers is nothing of what you mentioned. In some countries, yes owning an EV doesn't make sense but that is primarily not because of the charging network or battery technology.
For over 90% of the people EV battery technology was there 10 years ago, except maybe for the cost.
Which leads us to the primary problem: Traditional automakers have to outsource cell and/or pack production - which means they are always going to loose to the likes of Tesla, BYD and others having battery cell production in house. At the sametime they loose their high margin activity of building internal combustion engines.
All of the other stuff that comes when building a car is pretty much a commodity, and competition in it is very difficult. Maybe if you built your car from plastics or something, then you could end up on top.
Are all Tesla batteries now made in their Gigafactory? I still see things about batteries being imported from China. Wondering if lithium mining and cartels will just come to replace some of the problems associated with oil/OPEC.
Opel under PSA was already pretty much badge engineering too. They took peugeot chassis and engines and made it look like an opel so most people would be none the wiser and it works. It's crazy how effective it is. Most people are really clueless about what they buy and do zero research outside what the salesman has to say.
I was at a family event recently and from everyone parked we had a VW passat and a skoda octavia parked. We ended up talking about cars and like 75% didn't know it's basically the same car and that VW owns skoda. In 2024 it boggles my mind, it's not like they merged yesterday.
I don't think Citroen is going anywhere as spin-off, they have also been basically peugeots with a different body for ages. Peugeot keeps the brand alive more as a test bed to do goofy stuff more than anything.
Not even gonna go into the US brands, a lot of them have already gone bankrupt and theres a reason for that, but were kept afloat for political reasons and to keep unions happy, it's a mafia more than anything, and a european company getting their arm caught in those cogs is par for the course. The big management guys don't care, they get their piles of cash at time of merger and when they exit too anyway.
I like your comparision with British Leyland. There are some common points (like very poor reliability and various models that compete between each other and even badge engineering in the panel vans, but there are some big differences in my opinion:
- The cars developed after Stellantis was created share the same platform and the same engine. This alone is a very big cost saving measure. BL didn't. There is the Triumph TR7 that developed a new V8 instead of using the Rover/Buick V8. There are the MG MGB/Triumph Spitfire, Rover P6/Triumph 2000, Austin Alegro/Morris Marina and many more. Competing cars between each other with very different underpinings.
- There are no big labour disputes for little things that mandate massive strikes that stop the production for weeks and make workers produce work of less quality
- The dealer network and supply chains are more integrated. It was unthinkable a Morris dealer selling a Austin and a Austin being made in Cowley (Morris factory), even if it made more sense financialy by being a badge enginnering exercise, for historic reasons. Stellantis dealer network is very well connected and it is not uncomon to find a Opel/Peugeot/Citroen dealer, or a Fiat/Peugeot dealer.
- The french government don't interfere with the operations like the british on the UK. For example, telling where they must build factories, even if it means a very big cost.
I think Stellantis learned a lot about the mistakes made by BL and is doing its best to avoid going in the same way, and is avoiding.
About the EV market, it is driven mostly by political pressure by the EU. Weak EV sales it's a issue that affects all the brands. Luckly they are seing that is more difficult that it seems and laxing the targets. Also, the EV are NOT enviornment friendly cars (but it's another discussion)
About the brands that are dying (DS and Lancia), no one is going really to care. There are two brands that most people don't know exist. It's sad, but the market will not miss it. Lancia, in particular, only sell in Italy for some reason.
Triumph Stag had its own redesigned V8 engine. Enthusiasts figured out why the Triumph V8 engines were always having overheating issues. Apparently the factory workers forgot to clean all of the coolant passageways after the blocks were cast and this obviously caused the overheating problems. Enthusiasts who still have the original V8 Triumph engines in their Stags have fully cleaned them out and they are a lot more reliable.
@@miguelcardoso1903 yeah, I was being a little alarmist on purpose regarding the BL comparison, but it's the parallels that scare me. Too many brands competing for the same market. It makes no sense and it will show
@@bentullett6068 They also found a way to fit the Rover V8 and have no issues at all. The Stag V8 has the water pump above the reservoir, that makes it easily, if the water drops a little bit, to overheat. Also, the way the head bolts are designed is great to blow up head gaskets due to inequal heat transfer (they are not perpendicular, they have a little angle)
@@comcarclub That's why they are some low volume brands that might disapear, if there are some competing brands that sell more. It also happened inside BL (Riley and Wolseley for example)
"The cars developed after Stellantis was created share the same platform and the same engine." Dodge, RAM & Chrysler fans are furious that there is no Hemi V8 in these plans though. There are lot of US buyers that still like big (dumb?) pushrod V8 engines. (That Maseratis use the Chrysler Pentastar V6 is very much kept on the down low!) Do the European marques have any plans to use the Hurricane inline-six turbo?
The only way to save Citroen would be to bring back an hydroneumatic top of the range, with every single glitch sorted out (not too many left on the X7 as far as i know) and add an active anti roll bar (activa, anyone?), with a strong, reliable engine and (dreaming too much here, i know) hydractive 4 , with 2 added spheres for ultra comfort mode on a straight line. Instead of soft /hard, we would have ultra soft /soft /hard, plus active anti roll bar. That would be the most confy car ever :)
Maybe we could also add AMVARS to the equation? 😊
Above all, we would need someone with Andre Citroen vision taking care of brand development, doing all to bring Citroen cars to what they were years ago.
Unfortunately nowadays its all about making profit for the shareholders, so I'm just dreaming ...
@@yose as much as I love hydractive, it's become a liability. Even if it's as reliable as a wood-burning stove, motoring journalists will say it adds to the cost of the car, that the Germans have cars nearly as comfortable, etc.
What's AMVARS? Applicable market value advance rate? I googled it and that's what came up. I have no idea what that means
@@comcarclub the german stuff is as comfortable as a stiff hydractive. A hydractive with 5 people and a full boot will still fit over a speed bump
You're basically describing what a DS should be.
There's no need for extra spheres, a BX mk1 didn't have them, and people said that it floated so much it caused sea sickness.
@@comcarclub Hydractive become extremely reliable with the c5. Before that it needed way more attention and maintenance. So maybe the motoring journalists come from there? Anyway, who cares about what they say? Not me. :D
AMVAR (without the S that I mistakingly added) is basically variable damping that was added to some C6 versions. You can see how it works on this video (roughly after minute 2) th-cam.com/video/L2q03XZugwg/w-d-xo.html
Wish they did a C6 Tourer :P
@@chrisdavidson911 I also agree. Maybe an S Class can be near, but with springs, I never experienced anything near as comfy as an Hydroneumatic ;)
This video shows it well :D
th-cam.com/video/Thd2IIBYZpQ/w-d-xo.html
The main stellantis issue is their 1.2 3cylinder engine, it's unreliable is in every car, and their ugly car designs
Skipped that engine for the 'trusty' 1.4, which even developed a crack in the block after oooh, 60,000 miles? That was my last Pug and my last PSA vehicle - owned from new, and that was 2013!
I’m actually pretty excited about Stellantis for some good reasons. With the smart platform and the Panda/C3 we might finally have a more affordable small EV suitable for most European city drivers. This type of car simply isn’t available yet unless you class the Dacia spring as a ‘car’?
I also think their strategy of making platforms that can take a variety of power trains rather than focusing on pure EV platforms has proven to be a smart idea given the current EV market saturation.
Of course there are brands in the group that aren’t performing; Maserati is a perennial problem no matter who owns it. Lancia, outside Italy, is yet to prove itself and Fiat, for now, is struggling because of lower volumes. But there are still some good signs out there.
If it were me, making the decisions, I’d kill off Maserati, never see Chrysler or RAM in Europe and with platform and production capacity sharing let the other brands play to their strengths.
There are specific needs in the market which I think Stellantis can fill that other car brands have either abandoned or priced themselves out of.
Chrysler feels like a non-brand here. Other than the Pacifica, I rarely see them on the road anymore. Don't see their dealerships anywhere, unless it's Dodge/RAM, maybe Jeep.
Great they have concept cars which look great - when is something truly groundbreaking coming out?
They might as well try and bring the European cars over, though sadly they will likely fail.
Sad given I learned to drive in a Chrysler, and I liked the cars back in the 90s. A shadow of themselves.
Maybe Renault would buy Citroen, at least it would still be French..
Luis Renault and Andre Citroen was enemy.
@@Lwpi20 Well, up to 1935.....
Always thought stellantis would be the first big name to go. Very little appeal in any segment that makes a difference. Desire ? Value? Image? All done better by other manufacturers. Personal transport is being priced out for the masses so 14 brands is far to many
You're right, except one thing: since 2018, the 1.6 Puretech petrol engine has nothing in common with former Prince series, except for same value of cubic inches. It is reliable, powerful, chain instead of bloody wet belt. september 2023, they updated 1.2 Puretech with a chain and kept the wet belt on other iterations, but stricter service intervals and other wet belt manufacturer. And is not shared anymore with BMW, it stayed as inhouse engine.
I own a Peugeot 508 powered with a Puretech 225 petrol turbo engine, and as long as you disable that damn start stop function - a cancer for turbo engines - and dont go over 10 thousand km oil service interval, this engine is a reliable beast.
There are other minor issues - weak paint, nightmare to work at electrical confort modules - but the engine has no reliability issues. Not as long as you halves Peugeot/PSA/Stellantis recommended service interval. Because that is a spit on the cheek of everyone, how could you believe you can keep engine oil for 25k or two years???
@@adrianiacob1991 thanks, I wasn't sure if the current 1.6 was the Prinz engine
Stellantis. It's a Greek word meaning "Fix It Again, Tony."
That's an a usa thing, most people in europe don't think like that.
Although the fiat brand diluted to become the 500brand the girlies still love it
@2:43 Ferrari is not owned/under Stellantis, it's a standalone brand!
Well spotted. I hadn't noticed that, I knew Ferrari was independent and has been since 2016
Stellantis does feel like a bit of a hotchpotch of brands without a clear strategy, say in comparison to Volkswagen group. Perhaps it's still early days and that's all about to happen.
I never understood the separation of DS from Citroen and it doesn't appear as if it's gained popular recognition. Manufacturers often try to 'do a Lexus', like Toyota. It doesn't always work. DSs don't strike me as premium or luxurious.
It would be a bit of a shame to see, say brands like Alfa Romeo or Lancia disappear, but they really have been just labels for a long time and the connections with the original marques have dissipated. People were sad to see names like Pontiac go at the time, but it's not really mattered in the bigger picture.
Good to hear the Fiat Tipo get a mention. I've never owned one, but to me it's a bit of an 'under the radar' model with no strong vices or virtues. There are fewer cars nowadays where you have the choice of hatchback/saloon/estate versions, depending on where you are (but they'll probably end up selling mostly crossovers, anyway).
Have a cull - get rid of the unwanted awful DS fake brand no one wants or buys.
Rebadge Vauxhalls as Opel. Ridiculous having the brand just for the UK. We love German brands here and Vauxhall is not the popular brand it once was.
Oh, and make good looking cars. The Alfa Milano, I mean Junior looks horrific. The new Lancia Ypsilon is also weird.
Absolutely fantastic use of fact checking yourself during the video. Love it.
In my perfect world, a "HIT" would be put out on Carlos Tavares for what he has done to Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM! I don't want to see any of these brands go away, but I do want to see him go away. I like your videos very much.
Citroen is a very likeable and historical brand. They will sell Opel well before. BYD will probablily buy any of the big stelantis brands if that's the case.
I doubt any Chinese company now has the will to spend big cash. Their economy is in the gutter right now
They saw Chinese people from BYD looking up Chrysler center
Let's put 7 losers together - that just must be a success!
Here in US they seem to be shrinking. Plymouth is gone. I heard Dodge may go. RAM trucks and Jeep make them money I guess. Maybe they will sell out and exit the US market. Maybe they will sell to Toyota.
@@daniellarson3068 yeah, the biggest loss in profits is the north American market. Tavares is probably good at managing European brands but in all honesty he seems to be out of his depth regarding the US market. It's a very different beast and he's making a hash of it.
Thanks for the comment, it's rare to get people from the US watching these videos so it's much appreciated
@@comcarclub He seems to have greatly underestimated the desire for V8s among American truck buyers. The Ram 1500 which used to be the second best selling pickup has slipped behind the Chevy Silverado and looks set to fall behind the GMC Sierra as well. In just the last year Ram is down 20% in units sold. Ram also only has full size pickups, while GM and Ford both have midsize, EV, and Ford even has a small size. They've also axed any possibility for younger people to realistically buy a Stellantis car as they did not sell any vehicles
Not to worry! There’s a myriad of Chinese car manufacturers who will be grateful for the empty showrooms following the demise of the traditional European brands. What happened in the UK over forty years ago, will happen across the western world. Hang on in there BMW, Mercedes and VAG!
1.2 PureTech surely had a problem with a belt sucked into an oil. But all you have to do is to check the belt wearness and clean up the oil system if you are unlucky enough. My parents had Citroen C4 second generation with this engine it has faulty belt but after we replaced it and cleaned the oil system from the belt scraps that engine was working just fine. With 1.6 THP we got a different story. Of course at the beginning that engine had problems like with stretching belt. But no one seems to talk about first Volkswagens TSI engine series which had similar technologies like THP and had similar problems. In both cases these problems were fixed with newer iterations and few service calls. But in the case of germans no one cares, meanwhile everyone is saying that THP is a piece of crap, even when cars with those engines are still around driving just fine.
@@patrykperonski5459 I see. So a current C5 X hybrid with the 1.6 petrol engine would be a good purchase, at least on paper? I'm curious because you never know what you might want to buy a few years down the road
@@comcarclub Well if I had to buy new car from a former PSA brand like Peugeot and Citroen I would surely choose hybrid because of a performance to economy ratio.
1.6 THP engine is very bad engine......it is not designed to last
@@A.Kaklanis yeah like every modern engine
Laughs in timing covers that break daily…
30.000 miles and they are up for replacement.
Ignition coils still die. Work for Opel Citroen, the only things that are fixed are the timing and fuel pump issues. Rest? Still there from the olden days
Stellantis is an equity company not a car company - they make junk vehicles. You would have to pay me to drive one.
A empresa iniciou o processo de junção em 2021, desenvolveu o plano de modernização de plataformas, que está em desenvolvimento ainda, está a meio de uma confusão no paradigma automóvel mundial com a ofensiva chinesa com a incerteza se os elétricos irão ganhar mais presença ou não.
O problema da Stellantis não está na Stellantis está nos últimos 10 anos FCA e principalmente na parte americana e na resistência americana à mudança.
O plano de reestruturação é para ir até 2030, o pessoal está a julgar o grupo Stellantis antes sequer de terem todos os projetos desenvolvidos no que toca a plataformas, só no próximo ano e tal como previsto começarão a chegar ao mercado a nova geração de produtos feitos na novas base pós Stellantis.
Há grupos que usam uma marca para todo o planeta e para todos os segmentos de mercado, a Stellantis é um grupo de muitas marcas regionais terá de ser gerida com isso em mente.
Há bases técnicas que num lado do planeta serão vendidas com design X e marca X e noutro lado com outra marca.
O que ninguém pensa é que o grupo FCA se não se junta ao PSA e herda rapidamente plataformas segmento B e C estaria por esta altura sem produtos novos porque as plataformas estavam datadas.
Outra questão são os controlos de custos não por decréscimo de qualidade mas por escala de fabrico.
Os mesmos componentes escondidos feitos para mais de 4 milhões têm custos substancialmente mais baixos do que para menos de 2 milhões.
Quanto à supressão de modelos, o mesmo acontece noutras marcas de outros grupos.
Quantos exemplos de modelos que vendiam imenso ou que não venderam o necessário e que já não terão subtítulo noutros grupos?
Só depois do processo de junção finalizado e com os novos projetos nos stands é que se pode julgar.
Até lá é conclusões baseadas em nada consistente e erradas até porque menos de 3 anos é pouco tempo para corrigir os erros dos anteriores 10 anos do lado da FCA.
A PSA estava com boa saúde financeira mas pequena e demasiado dependente do mercado europeu.
Há fenómenos que são não recentes, concentração de vendas em algumas marcas em algum segmentos, uma certa tendência exagerada leva a que se seja impossível ter mais opções.
Falam na saída da Citroen do segmento D mas porquê? É uma marca euro dependente e todos sabemos que esse segmento está a ser dominado por 3 modelos neste momento (até a Audi abandonou 1 das 2 berlinas que tinha nesse segmento na última geração de A4/5)
Vamos pegar no exemplo da Toyota, o que vende o segmento D deles na Europa? Se eles fossem dependentes da Europa já não teriam um segmento D há quantos anos? Neste momento trouxeram um modelo global, o Camry, que vende imenso noutros mercados e sumiram com o Avensis.
.
A verdade é que estamos a meio de uma remodelação do grupo e a meio de uma confusão no mercado automóvel, quantos grupos estão a recuar no investimento em fábricas para baterias? Até a legislação está a ser alterada e mais flexível quanto às normal anti poluição.
Muita asneira dita neste vídeo infelizmente. Apenas um click bait carregado de negatividade, até na parte dos motores.
O que criticam no 1.2 é apenas a tendência do momento, Ford, Honda e GM pelo menos têm motores com correias em óleo.
Quantos motores com correias secas tinham mudas recomendadas abaixo dos 100 mil e alguns pouco acima dos 100 mil e partiam aos 80?
Quantos motores de corrente têm problemas antes dos 100 mil?
Depois falam do 1.6 Prince como se no momento fosse exatamente o mesmo motor que foi lançado em 2006! Já teve três revisões pelo menos, logo em 2010 teve a primeira.
Inventa se muito e perpétuam se problemas de juventude na boca das pessoas por todo o ciclo de vida de um motor ignorando o facto que existem revisões correctivas, remodelações e alterações de componentes por parte dos próprios fornecedores. Enfim.
The launch of DS was purely to asset-strip Citroën off their 2000s status, where every single Citroën was better deaigned and more desirable than the equivalent Peugeot.
By spinning off DS, they essentially had all they needed to force Citroën to a lesser status than Peugeot.
I have fun seeing everybody's scowling comments, preferring brand X over brand Y or vice versa all willy nilly: it is the car industry as a whole that came tumbling down. When stupid little parts become custom, when buildability and serviceability are not in the list of concerns, when everything is built in china anyway and you just pay premium for this or that brand... when all is hype and marketing predicated on the gullibillity of a public that opines way more than they actually know, you get all this.
Easiest thing they could do aside from rounding off brand redundancies would be to sell Maserati; what's complicated is deciding whom should they be sold to, if there's even any takers
Maserati still has a lot of cache. Someone will definitely take it! It would be fun if Honda bought it and finally had their European luxury brand, having missed out on Rover and Range Rover.
Citroen Australia has just this week announced that it is withdrawing from Australia after over a 100 years presence. They only sold 87 cars last year. Renault and Peugeot are maybe not far behind due to very poor sales.
Marchinne ruined Lancia, then Alfa and now FIAT alltogether
And the suicide pact Euro currency. Italian cars were cheap with the lira
I don't want to be that guy, but :
The latest generation Lancia Delta was actually a lengthened Fiat Bravo II platform, which was itself a modernised Fiat Stilo (!) platform. That entails all the cheap 90's (designed) econo-car driving dynamics (no independent rear suspension) on an upmarket "luxury" hatchback in the 00's and 10's. They did get wonderful Alfa Romeo 1.8 TBI and Saab/Alfa Romeo 1.9 JTDM twin sequential turbo engines however, which is always a blast, and the sometimes reliable fully opening panoramic sunroof was very nice too.
Got too big, with too many brands that are too similar to each other. They all do nothing particularly well.
A grim assessment, but probably a correct one.... Stellantis have way too many brands, and too many segments where they cancel each other out. No lessons learned from GM/Ford/BL histories and some of Europe's most historic marques will be cast into oblivion in order to keep the ship afloat. Sad times indeed.
Historically Chrysler Europe had Hillman, Hunter, Simca and so on, and they couldn't make that work either! Can a Euro-centric Stellantis rather than US-centric Chrysler Group make it work this time? 🤔
I’ve always thought that we are in the Philips V2000 Betamax VHS era, in the end there will be one type of charging network, plug, payment scheme preferably plug and pay. One spot for the charge port whether it be front centre or offside/nearside rear and no more than 10 mins to charge then the EV is a dead duck for most drivers.
We are pretty much there already. And no, most people don't need 10 minute charging.
Strange way to plan an infrastructure. Governments should be setting standards, lets face it they are worse than useless otherwise. The EU too, still haven't even standardised the LPG filler nozzle.
Good thoughts, Stellantis is a bit of a problematic conglomerate. Though I think solid state batteries are farther away than is practical for automobile manufacturers to plan their future around them. If we see them in production vehicles in the next 5 years that would surprise me, they're still at the "we can be optimistic about the future" phase of development. So companies that are betting everything on EVs are probably going to have to tread water for another decade. But it doesn't have to be either or, as the state of the market and technology is, hybrid cars are probably the best compromise going forward. They have the problem of not being as "futuristic" as pure EVs, but they do work pretty well and give excellent economy. Maybe Stellantis should pivot more into hybrids.
they are!
Another reason why FIAT is doing poorly is thanks to its biggest market (Brazil) going down the toilet as well. I do hope however, as the good Italian that I am, that they do not axe Alfa Romeo nor Lancia. That would be a crime to automobile history.
Not rambly at all, good takes
At the moment you have things like the Vauxhall Combo, the Citroen Berlingo and the Peugeot Rifter all competing in the "Van shaped SUV market" with the Vauxhall being the lower spec, the Berlingo being the mid range and the Rifter being the top of the range but there is a lot of cross over in specs and pricing. However, each one is sapping customers from the other.
Stellantis stocks tanked a bit recently and the reason why is disappointing sales in North America. Stellantis still does quite well in Europe, they're number one in commercial vehicles and they have some really cool models such as the Jeep Avenger. I still think it can be saved and they still have some big investors on board.
Yup I agree!
Exor won't let it fail
I would sell the US devision
There has to be an alterior motive behind Stellantis?! The Stellantis group is a dumpster fire of failing automotive brands.
Why would any investor/director/board think that amalgamating a list of “dog” brands, that fail to hold any reliability, quality or prestige to their respective segment… would be a recipe for success?
The Chinese will buy valuable brands. Volvo as an example. Chrysler will go first as no one will buy it, then dodge as no one will buy it either. They will keep jeep but likely fuck it up. Citroën can be bought by the Chinese and even Fiat, Alfa and any others with pedigree. Stellantis may be the first major auto mfg to go bankrupt.
The DS brand could perhaps have worked if they had only remembered what the Citroen DS was known for; the magic carpet ride quality.
They got the quirky Frenchness of it right, the DS exterior is conventionally handsome on the outside and distinctly French on the inside, but at least the earlier versions seemed to latch on to the boy's racer craze with a hard suspension which didn't suit the car at all.
Looks like the newest version is better in that regard, but if it's neither comfortable or advanced, then it just won't live up to the DS name.
Stalantis is a car manufacturer that's only a name and has no actual product they need to take a page from GM or Ford and name a Stalantis 504 or a Stalantis Spider etc et cetera then they have created their own lines yes there are a lot of Heritage but you can still pay homage the Heritage and still be your own brand with a Large selection of products with badges!!! 🤠👍
When you look at how big Fiat once was. Its nothing today.
The Chinese will end up owning Citroen, and moving production to China. By the way BMW sold off Land Rover, the Rover design and research at Ryton and kept Mini, asset stripping the Rover Group.
Since I heard Carlos Tavares make that horrible speech against electric cars, and how they could never be made, I profoundly dislike the guy.
keep in mind that the Chinese do not seem to have any issues making electric cars, cheap and decent. And up until Carlos became CEO of Renault, Renault used to make decent electric cars (Nissan leaf, Renault cangoo).
Carlos Tavares is single-handedly destroying most of Europe's car industry.
He is already axing brands because his overpriced vehicles are not interesting nor affordable enough for the European Market, at the same time Chinese cars are entering the European Market in full force... Most models made by Stellantis are still combustion cars and over 30 000€...
Stellantis had bought several brands that not only produce the same type of cars, they also do that in the same limited market (‘just’ Europe, not the US, SE Asia or Japan).
They therefore lack the scale that’s needed to compete with global players.
Used to have a Citroen AX as a student in the 1980’s. Good car, but they were living on borrowed time already then. The glory days of the 2cv’s and the DS’s was over and nothing new was coming. Then the support broke down as they became unable/unwilling to provide spare parts after 10 years, implying it was not required by european law. Then they started introducing new models/retiring previous models every couple of years…
Porsche did the contrary: they did not change models: a 911 is a 911! they helped you with pride when you showed up with a 30 year old car and were happy to hear that you still enjoyed it and they took great care of it.
What happened to SRT (‘Street Racing Technology’ - the in-house sports tuning & design subsidiary of Chrysler)? Great innovators, designers & engineers. I know some US brands like Dodge, still have SRT models. I love their work & I really hope their creative genius as a collective hasn’t been lost in the Stellantis ‘universe’. Jeez
What plausible reason could they come up with to completely ditch all V8 engines in the Jeep and Dodge lineup to switch to electricity? Dodge's whole brand is they're loud V8 muscle cars for serious performance and they just killed them off entirely to switch to an EV costing $86k for just the scatpack?
The way you do multi brand is by having each brand compete in a clearly defined market. They should never compete directly. So different price points or type of cars. Having different badges for countries is bad, as it diminishes advertising options. It might be an option though. So having Citroen, Peugot, Opel, Vauxhall and Fiat in one company is just insane. The products are too similar and in a similar price range. Thats most of their cars.
Any sort of parts, technology and platforms should be handed downwards. So from the more expensive brand to the cheaper one. Never the other way around. That means good parts get cheap due to mass production and nobody ever complaines about getting a good product for cheap. Other way around is very different though.
Stellantis going for EVs is not a bad move. It is badly timed, but batteries are becoming cheaper and charging infrastructure is expanding. The problem is that it is a quickly changing technology and they have to make the right choices for battery technology, building new factories and where they move R&D. Given the billion different brands, cultures, markets and what not that will be hard.
I always thought that Stellantis in 2021, was the ultimate collection of the world’s automotive dross at that time. Yes some of the names were, decades or more ago, prestigious brands in their own right but when they are all thrown into an interbreeding melting pot where some of the constituents are Fiat, Chrysler and RAM, none of the badges you stick on the resultant vehicles is going to have a prestigious future.