A bit weird to say flanking wouldn't be payed off. If red would put just 2 flanking crawlers Blue's whole bottom left and bottom right would be pulled away form the first few seconds of the round (late game). Then (maybe) the phoenix would shoot the arclights. Keep up the good work!
They definitely would have an impact. It's just in standard those issues can be easily fixed with some fangs, making flanks not as valuable as say, in aggro, where a few seconds could be the difference between taking tower or losing your army.
Think Blue shoulda kept the farseers and upgraded them with AA and EM, they were doing a lot of work and got booted for some reason without anything to pick up the slack
Nothing will ever convince me that the AA techs of the Arclights, Tarantulas and Sandworms is not terrible. You need more than just "no longer be helpless against air" to make a tech worth taking, especially when you have other units that can already target air, and can upgraded to absolutely DECIMATE it if need be (Marksmen, Wasps, Typhoons etc). There needs to be SOMETHING else to the tech to make it fulfill the role it's supposed to, to make the unit a COUNTER to air, rather than simply no longer helpless against it. Similarly, nothing short of major buffs will ever convince me that Shooting Squad is not a bad tech. It's just not cost-effective, you can simply DEPLOY more Fangs than you'd get for the cost of the tech (and the additional scaling it adds to other techs for your Marksmen). Not even when it's summoning rank 5 Fangs like in this game.
Hard disagree with AA arcs. Going AA arclight counters wasps so heavily and you don't have to buy a different unit shuts down wasp play for fairly cheap and you can keep feeding levels into arcs. Also if you play carry arclight those things will delete anything in the air once they have charge shot and some lvls. The sandworm AA i only take when i try and meme and go early worm with Giant spec.
Critical mass. There are too many missiles to block, it would be a big investment. Also with HE stormies once they get EMP just getting one missile through turns it off when its on units.
@@IIIJG52 War Factory anti missles two units of Stormcallers. Big spend, but WF is 8, and AM is 250 (iirc). Plus it tanks, and does DMG! No idea how it would have worked out, overall (for instance, Can you, reasonably, go acid scorpions at this point? Would/Will your opponent counter appropriately?); but a legit point.
@IIIJG52 Saturated missile defenses is a big deal when the missiles are mostly just a delivery system for emp or fire, or are to take out key units like the Fort anti air missiles. But when thier main job is just the broad DPS then Saturated missile defenses are actually just at peak efficiency for damage reduction which at a certain point seems like it would be cost effective on par with buying more and more chaff. These are pros so I trust they've done the math, I just don't understand the math lol
Going to be honest but this specific game showcased all the things I dislike about this game. Stormcallers in the early rounds evening out the damage you take because most units are too slow. Stormcallers still dealing with the Rhino and dealing with the MP even when they were teched into dealing less damage. The inevitability of the game turning into a max ranged battle where any unit you place that doesn't has max range just gets hit by a wall of damage making almost every unit obsolete except for chaff and more max range units. The "Random" level 5 marksman drop. Out of all the units that could've dropped it dropped the one unit that could counter the Phoenixes without it the blue player would've just lost there. Winning because of a random unit drop feels undeserved, losing to it feels even worse. And the cherry on top, the nuke which doesn't need explanation. Sorry for the rant but this is what is almost stopping me from playing the game.
Ik I'm late here, but you can stop that level 5 marksman drop by unlocking the marksman. Any unit that a player has unlocked becomes blocked from the unit drop pool unless it has no other unit choice to pull from. This can be useful with giant specialist since you can block giant units from being offered. As a side note, it sounds like you'd prefer aggro play much more. Most of the issues you listed stem from standard play, aggro play doesn't really have any of these problems.
@@AlpacaBowl627 yeah but being forced to go agro to deal with it isn't a great answer either. Storms counter too much and require too much to play around they aren't broken per se, but i would argue they are not good for the enjoyment of the game. I don't like feeling like i have to go agro or be stormed to oblivion every game
Shouldn'T it be pretty much game over as soon as one opponent puts on eor two War Factories with Anti Missile on the board? You have the big hitpoint pool for tanking and distraction (like the sandworms) and you negate most of the (early and mid) damage from all those Stormcallers and Farseers. Or am I wrong here?
Especially for Red if he gets phoenix production since he had teched phoenixes. But he won with the sandworms. Blue was having so much trouble with them, he just added more. Blue was in trouble once the sandworms showed up. Maybe war factory could have turned it around, I don't know. I always have trouble defending against high HP melee units when they appear late in the game.
@@JaimeWarlock My first instinct if this happens is obv Melting Point. But this doesn't would be sufficient here, since the Melters would be too busy shooting little stuff until the worms were right next to them. My next instinct would be Boats, but they would be easily outplayed by the high level Phoenix and won't accomplish nothing. I guess best chance would be Scorps with double Shot and Acid maybe?
Just like all decisions in Mechabellum, going WF comes with its risks. It's a 1250 supply investment (with AM tech), and 200 per turn investment per unit if efficient maintence is not taken. It's high HP will not be high enough to tank the pheonix, carry arcs, or even storms (1 WF can only intercept 2 storm's rockets), meaning it will die half way through the round, losing any AM abilities. The chaff war hasn't even ended during that time, which means WF's massive dmg output will not be impactful. Instead, the player can direct that 1250 resource to more chaff, more tech, or just straight up AM devices (like 8 of them), giving him a more flexible board.
I really appreciate this analysis and also the appreciation you're giving to standard, of which many streamers are quite dismissive :)
This video made me a progress from 1200+ to 1400+, thank you for helpfull comments about standart game!
i think thew ignite was preventative of worm, he took it the round before u noticed
A bit weird to say flanking wouldn't be payed off. If red would put just 2 flanking crawlers Blue's whole bottom left and bottom right would be pulled away form the first few seconds of the round (late game). Then (maybe) the phoenix would shoot the arclights.
Keep up the good work!
They definitely would have an impact. It's just in standard those issues can be easily fixed with some fangs, making flanks not as valuable as say, in aggro, where a few seconds could be the difference between taking tower or losing your army.
Ignite was taken on round 10, against a potential worm pick by red hair
Think Blue shoulda kept the farseers and upgraded them with AA and EM, they were doing a lot of work and got booted for some reason without anything to pick up the slack
Farseers don't have an AA upgrade.
Nothing will ever convince me that the AA techs of the Arclights, Tarantulas and Sandworms is not terrible. You need more than just "no longer be helpless against air" to make a tech worth taking, especially when you have other units that can already target air, and can upgraded to absolutely DECIMATE it if need be (Marksmen, Wasps, Typhoons etc). There needs to be SOMETHING else to the tech to make it fulfill the role it's supposed to, to make the unit a COUNTER to air, rather than simply no longer helpless against it.
Similarly, nothing short of major buffs will ever convince me that Shooting Squad is not a bad tech. It's just not cost-effective, you can simply DEPLOY more Fangs than you'd get for the cost of the tech (and the additional scaling it adds to other techs for your Marksmen). Not even when it's summoning rank 5 Fangs like in this game.
Hard disagree with AA arcs. Going AA arclight counters wasps so heavily and you don't have to buy a different unit shuts down wasp play for fairly cheap and you can keep feeding levels into arcs. Also if you play carry arclight those things will delete anything in the air once they have charge shot and some lvls. The sandworm AA i only take when i try and meme and go early worm with Giant spec.
What am I missing for why no interest in any anti-missile when both players are so reliant on missile damage
Critical mass. There are too many missiles to block, it would be a big investment. Also with HE stormies once they get EMP just getting one missile through turns it off when its on units.
@@IIIJG52 War Factory anti missles two units of Stormcallers. Big spend, but WF is 8, and AM is 250 (iirc). Plus it tanks, and does DMG! No idea how it would have worked out, overall (for instance, Can you, reasonably, go acid scorpions at this point? Would/Will your opponent counter appropriately?); but a legit point.
@IIIJG52 Saturated missile defenses is a big deal when the missiles are mostly just a delivery system for emp or fire, or are to take out key units like the Fort anti air missiles. But when thier main job is just the broad DPS then Saturated missile defenses are actually just at peak efficiency for damage reduction which at a certain point seems like it would be cost effective on par with buying more and more chaff.
These are pros so I trust they've done the math, I just don't understand the math lol
What of Blue took AA WF by saving from AA arcs and other stuff? Maybe also teching Phoenix production
Range is king, unless you have sandworms.......
I think the most cost efficient unit in games like these is marksman.
Going to be honest but this specific game showcased all the things I dislike about this game. Stormcallers in the early rounds evening out the damage you take because most units are too slow. Stormcallers still dealing with the Rhino and dealing with the MP even when they were teched into dealing less damage. The inevitability of the game turning into a max ranged battle where any unit you place that doesn't has max range just gets hit by a wall of damage making almost every unit obsolete except for chaff and more max range units. The "Random" level 5 marksman drop. Out of all the units that could've dropped it dropped the one unit that could counter the Phoenixes without it the blue player would've just lost there. Winning because of a random unit drop feels undeserved, losing to it feels even worse. And the cherry on top, the nuke which doesn't need explanation. Sorry for the rant but this is what is almost stopping me from playing the game.
Ik I'm late here, but you can stop that level 5 marksman drop by unlocking the marksman. Any unit that a player has unlocked becomes blocked from the unit drop pool unless it has no other unit choice to pull from. This can be useful with giant specialist since you can block giant units from being offered. As a side note, it sounds like you'd prefer aggro play much more. Most of the issues you listed stem from standard play, aggro play doesn't really have any of these problems.
@@AlpacaBowl627 yeah but being forced to go agro to deal with it isn't a great answer either. Storms counter too much and require too much to play around they aren't broken per se, but i would argue they are not good for the enjoyment of the game. I don't like feeling like i have to go agro or be stormed to oblivion every game
Shouldn'T it be pretty much game over as soon as one opponent puts on eor two War Factories with Anti Missile on the board? You have the big hitpoint pool for tanking and distraction (like the sandworms) and you negate most of the (early and mid) damage from all those Stormcallers and Farseers. Or am I wrong here?
Especially for Red if he gets phoenix production since he had teched phoenixes. But he won with the sandworms. Blue was having so much trouble with them, he just added more.
Blue was in trouble once the sandworms showed up. Maybe war factory could have turned it around, I don't know. I always have trouble defending against high HP melee units when they appear late in the game.
@@JaimeWarlock My first instinct if this happens is obv Melting Point. But this doesn't would be sufficient here, since the Melters would be too busy shooting little stuff until the worms were right next to them.
My next instinct would be Boats, but they would be easily outplayed by the high level Phoenix and won't accomplish nothing.
I guess best chance would be Scorps with double Shot and Acid maybe?
Just like all decisions in Mechabellum, going WF comes with its risks.
It's a 1250 supply investment (with AM tech), and 200 per turn investment per unit if efficient maintence is not taken. It's high HP will not be high enough to tank the pheonix, carry arcs, or even storms (1 WF can only intercept 2 storm's rockets), meaning it will die half way through the round, losing any AM abilities. The chaff war hasn't even ended during that time, which means WF's massive dmg output will not be impactful.
Instead, the player can direct that 1250 resource to more chaff, more tech, or just straight up AM devices (like 8 of them), giving him a more flexible board.