Porsche 911 GT3 vs 911 Turbo S track battle: Steve Sutcliffe on the limit | Auto Express
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Which of the two most potent Porsche 911s on sale is quickest around a track? Steve Sutcliffe straps himself in for this track battle to find out.
Read more at Auto Express:
2021 Porsche 911 GT3 review: aex.ae/3vbdWKH
2021 Porsche 911 Turbo S review: aex.ae/2zImodc
The Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbo S are two very different interpretations of a fast 911. The Turbo S uses raw firepower, four-wheel drive and secure handling to decimate the road in front of it, while the GT3 uses a sharp, naturally aspirated flat-six, two driven wheels and less weight to scythe around a track. Which is best? Steve Sutcliffe takes each to the limit, against the stopwatch, to reveal all.
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Mat Watson from Carwow in the GT3 around this track: 46.1.
Steve Sutcliffe: 42.3
OUCH!
Sutcliffe is a driver 🙌
That is noob vs pro. I remember one video where Steve was driving Honda Formula 1 car and they give it to him in winter conditions almost, he was driving it just few laps and his best lap was just 0.4s slower then lap of test driver of that Formula 1 team. That was really amazing.
difference between a real driver and a drag racer
Chris Harris said recently that steve is the fastest driver/journalist of his generation and he’s not wrong !!
I believe Steve has professional experience. And he has been driving for ages.
With the same Cup 2's I bet the Turbo S would match the GT3's time. I'd love to see both cars (with the same tires) head to head on a bigger track, where the GT3 aero can do its thing and the Turbo S power counts for even more. Laguna Seca or Portimao would be perfect.
Honestly at this point they should just pop a set of the same tyres on when comparing to make it comparable
@@Famous_Flavours porsche is the biggest cheater company with it's customers. Fooling them about lap times in every possible ways. Cheating with tires and geometry setups.
To be fair most Turbo S owners will not run cup 2s. It is meant to do more road miles than the GT3. So this test is more of a real world test. But yeah, we car guys would still like to see a same tire match up because why not
@@lensoprezole5322 Why would Porsche cheat on this? They are both Porsche's and they just showed that the 127 grand car is faster than the 172 grand car. doesn't make sense. Insanity of TH-cam I suppose.
"sport auto" (Germany) had both on Hockenheim GP. GT3 did 1:45,8 on Cup tires, Turbo S did 1:47,8 on Pirelli P Zero tires. My prediction: With the same tires you'll get about the same time even on a more open track.
Why this challenge hasn't been done sooner...or maybe I missed it. Regardless I'm glad Sutcliffe is doing it.
@autoexpress , I don’t really think Steve was the one who was on the Turbo S , on 6:54min you could actually see a person with glasses doing the lap in between
A pretty representative result as you would expect on a tight track
I think the Turbo on a big Track like Silverstone would have the edge but not the enjoyment factor of the GT3
Because there is the GT2. If you want more power and don't mind the forced induction engine that's the next step over the GT3.
They were afraid the gt3 would be exposed which it has
42.3 vs 42.8 I wouldn’t really call “blew it away” And the Turbo is a civilised, every day car not attracting unnecessary attention
Tires make a world of a difference, with the same tires the Turbo would definitely win 🥇
How does the GT3 grab so much more attention... unless you go with Blue or Green like I would? The price here is also a little unrealistic. If you want a Turbo S you can just go order one and wait a few months. Right now, if you want a gt3, you need to pay so much over MSRP that it's the same price as a Turbo S! So that's a big consideration, I think. Having sat in the new GT3 (and a Turbo S) over the weekend, while it might not be as "civilized" as the Turbo S, it is still quite a nice interior. And I'd be going full bucket seats with whichever. Biggest difference here for me is how much you care about nearly unusable back seats... at least no one can sit behind me, at 6'4". I guess, also, the engine on the GT3 sounds way better to me, with that 9000 redline.
@@dragsmoothfishingtv635 maybe on this tiny track. Go to Nurburing and the Turbo S doesn't stand a chance.
Yeah, with rear seats, full leather thicker glass, more sound insulation etc, etc. Definitely not blown away by any stretch of the imagination 👍
You know, that reviewing b@stard is always bias with the porsche gt cars against other cars and when he reviews british cars, oh my word, he would defend the car if the brit car was a bit slow, etc. , etc. But for the positive, he is a good driver.
Mostly tires imo. However, I understand the comparison is as they come from the dealer. Great video and great noises!
I agree. I think it would have been closer if they had the same tyres.
@autoexpress , I don’t really think Steve was the one who was on the Turbo S , on 6:54min you could actually see a person with glasses doing the lap in between
@@magnetomani3694 oh, didn't notice that but it could have just been b roll? I think they need to do another race with both of them on cup 2's.
P4S suit this car
Turbo S goes quicker on Cup2s for sure but that wouldn't fuel the GT3 hype train. Also faster track would get GT3 aero working but also allow Turbo S's power to show. Evo had exactly the same laptime from 991 GT3RS and Turbo S at Anglesey.
Agreed, half a second difference when the gt3 is running cup2’s is insane, all this video shows is how competent the turbo is. Also as you say, more open lap would let the turbo stretch its legs.
What this story doesn’t tell you is that the gt3 will take the abuse better. It’ll manage its temps better, the suspension will hold up better and you won’t find yourself tearing through brakes and tyres like you would on the turbo.
But this video was definitely a tad set up to make the gt3 look artificiality faster
Would love to see Steve drive and review the nismo with the n attack package you videod.
@@m.j4037 There's always a NISMO guy in every thread. Give it a rest this a Porsche video.
You all forgetting there is gonna be GT2 RS? Don't forget that's a NA car, that's the fastest NA car by milles
@@peyopeev8909 I thought GT2 RS was turbo in the previous models??
The gt3 is mighty impressive, but the turbos overall prowess wins it over the gt3 for me.
I would have the Turbo S any day tbh. It's more understated, it's more comfortable, it has 4 seats, it can be used on rainy days more easily thanks to AWD, it's definitely the better everyday car of the 2. As a sportcar the Turbo S is faster on a straight line (both off the line and in a rolling race) and if it had cup2 tyres it would probably match the Gt3 on a track like this. Overall the Gt3 is a great track car thar can also be used on the road, but the Turbo S strikes the perfect balance between everyday usability, performance and sportiness (imo). I understand why track enthusiasts would choose the Gt3, but I like all-rounders like the Turbo S better, even if they are a bit less exciting.
I completely agree but
That 9K Redline Naturally Aspirated flat six 🤤
0-60 and 1/4 mile the Turbo S would get your heart going more. 💓
I agree totally with you,for the majority of the time on the public roads the turbo s is the sensible option and i bet its much safer once the lower temperatures take hold in the winter too
Just not keen on the Turbo engine. Is the GT3 Touring perhaps the best everyday package for NA fans?
@@TheChannel1978 yes, I think so
The GT3 sounds and performs amazingly. But I'm buying a streetcar... I'll enjoy the Turbo S while taking a long road trip!
Genau! I drove both. Power on the Autobahn against AMG etc. than Turbo S, fun on the track Gt models
Yea, I have a 911 Turbo as my daily driver and I definitely wouldn’t trade for a GT3 for that use. I’m actually surprised it was only a half second slower
Steve, you are one of the UK's best car reviewers. Such a good job! Your pretty handy behind the wheel of a 911 too!! Well done and thanks.
It'd be interesting to see how close the Turbo would get with some stickier rubber.
Same. Would love to have a rematch with both cars on Cup 2's.
Turbo S on Cup2 tires and maybe kw suspention… It will destroy GT3
Just putting the same tires on both would make the Turbo S quicker.
…just turn ON the PSM (or whatever the handling assist is called on newer cars - I’m stuck with Metzger car…). I don’t think it would be “slower”…
@@blagovukovicbarbieri2046 Plus the engine tuning potential of that turbo engine. People are making 100+whp with just an exhaust and tune, and reaching 800-900whp with a turbo upgrade. The GT3 on the other hand is already right at the limit of making power and you can probably only make another 50hp unless you spend a ton of money.
Steve we learn so much from your passionate commentary over fast driving. Thank you!
I wish Steve had his own channel. I could listen to him all day. So engaging....provides such interesting information...
Not obnoxious...not egotistical. Top guy.
GT3 all the way, there's nothing like that na flat six, the sound, the razer sharp throttle response, absolutely epic 👌
Sensational! Just what I’ve been waiting for Steve!
I need more GT3 content! I cant get enough
Thank you for the video. Your love for the GT3 keeps you from making a proper analysis on what would actually happen in a more open track where they overwhelming speed advantage of Turbo would something to say. Also, let’s see what the times are like on same tires…before claiming the GT3 faster even on a tighter track. I would prefer a GT3 myself… but fair is fair.
I think Steve was more interested in sharing his love for the GT3 rather than giving an in-depth analysis of lap times and their make up :) He mentioned the Turbo has more grunt on the straights and we all know what that means for various circuits. But I agree it was odd that they could not fit the same tyres to conduct a lap time test. Makes you wonder how little time they have to prepare a shoot like that. Porsche probably don't bother giving them another set.
What an awesome video. Two of my absolute favorite cars. I do wish the cars had been on the same tires. That made the difference I think.
Need more Sutcliffe videos, great reviewer 👌
This is the first generation (992) where I think the Turbo S is actually the better looking of the two. I’m sure it drives fantastic but just can’t get used to the bottle nosed dolphin front end on the GT3
Same here.
agreed! But it looks miles better when the front is painted body colour.
@@bugpumper I’ve seen that on some 992 Touring GT3’s ....and actually think it looks even worse in body color 😬
@@jameswillard1 Mr JWW said that also. I just think the black plastic look is aweful.
But either way I like the Turbo s much more.
In my case, i hate the rear wing. Love the 991 gt3 wing!!!
this comparison is awesome, it's almost like a 100m sprinter vs a marathoner, participating in the 5k event
Gt3 better ??
Sutcliffe and Harris are by far the best Guys out there ❤
Love it
The Turbo S would definitely be faster with the same Cup 2 tires! That makes a big difference not only on grip, but also on braking! Only 0.5 sec apart. And that’s on a small, curvy track with almost no straights for the Turbo S stretch it’s legs. Personal preference for one or another it’s other matter! Love both models, but for me the Turbo S it’s the better and faster. That’s why you doesn’t see any comparison with the same tires. The GT3 is spectacular but only for the track. It’s the purist choice with many other cars in the garage.
and way more comfy.
Your comment in underrated 👌 on spot!
This is a tiny little track that does almost nothing with the GT3 aero, and favors the raw accel of a 4WD turbo. If you look at N ring times, the GT3 is 20 seconds faster. I daily drive mine and it's great
Steve, such a great job. Well done, watch each of your videos, thanks Steve!
I've been busy with work and missed this initially. What a nice treat to start a couple of days off with :) Yay! More Steve please :)
Great test and one I think many have been waiting for. I agree with everyone saying they should be on the same tires, or that the Turbo would be much faster with more straight lines.
Either way, and purely coincidental I am putting Cup 2's on my Turbo S next week and can't wait to feel the difference on the track
I put continental Trefeo on mine. And dropped 3 seconds a lap
@@kevinreath awesome! same here with the Cup 2's. A few seconds difference and it felt I could do even better once I get used to them.
Excellent review 👏..love your reviews 👍
The best car review guy out there. 👏
Set michelins on turbo s and goodyear on gt3 . see what happens with your 0,5 second.....
During the 911 Turbo S run, how come he wears sunglasses and not wearing them at the same time LOL
im so glad auto express did these no one has done this comparison before
Brilliant review as always! However, I still think the tires made a difference. Would love to see both on Cups, and I bet the result will change 🤗
The Turbo S on Cup 2 N1s would be next MF level. Wow
GT3 pro: It's a little faster around a track
Turbo S pro: You can actually buy one if you have the money
GT3 is only quicker due to the tires.
Fantastic! What a sound! Love these Steve Sutcliffe track battles. As an owner of a Type R FK8 it will be no surpise to those who know that I'd go for the GT3. Well, probably! :)
I also own an FK8 and would also go with the GT3. Or the GT2 RS? That's also a rocket!
@@rjung_ch You have good taste! :)
@@shauntompkins5061 That goes to you too! Keep enjoying your car!
@@rjung_ch You too mate - keep enjoying that awesome machine!
I've been waiting for this... in case I win the euromillions next week and have to choose xD
Steve Sutcliffe is hands down the best automobile reviewer working today. Anything that he reviews, I will watch. I was hooked back in 2015 when he gushed about the Cayman GTS. That review is legendary.
porsche obviously does not want them to test turbo s with cup 2 tyres because its a bit embarassing if their grand tourer would be faster than their track car.
Steve is my man watching him ever since 997 gt3 was new.💪💪
The fact is the Turbo is the everyday road king while the GT3 is the hype king that Porsche has created by artificially limiting production numbers.
so true. I played the game for 5 years and never got one
The turbo just need a proper stiffer suspension and stickier tires and you got yourself a winner here
Finalmente un video che analizza handling e attitudine alla pista! Non ne posso più della drag race con impediti che schiacciano l'acceleratore a tavoletta sul dritto con traction control e cambio automatico che fanno tutto da soli e... si sentono piloti!
Magnifiche entrambe ma in questo caso la gt3 è nel suo regno: la regina è lei 😍
turbo s with better pdk, cup 2s and a huge rear wing
so basically with the same tires, the Turbo S is the at least as quick if not quicker as the GT3.
"The GT3 blew the Turbo away"? Nonsense. The GT3 had far better tires. Give the Turbo S the Cup 2's and retest.
The GT3 is also a lot cheaper and remember that this isn't even the RS, which will be faster still.
@@Extra-dg7uv If you can get one. GT3's are mythical. More likely you get one as a second owner and it is marked up way more than a Turbo S.
@@uclajd The Turbo S is also a mythical beats right now dude. I know what you mean about the GT3 though.....Porsche should really up the production a bit
@@jamiecoburn1231 Nah finding a Turbo S allocation isn't that hard. At least not in LA, where there is a TON of wealthy people (you'd think there would be less here with all the rich folks).
@autoexpress , I don’t really think Steve was the one who was on the Turbo S , on 6:54min you could actually see a person with glasses doing the lap in between
The Turbo has a lot of real life advantages. Comfort, ride quality, options, convertible, and most importantly AWD allows year around driving. You really don't want to commute in a GT3 or take one on a road trip. The road noise and ride quality is pretty rough. But the GT3 will hold it's value much better and will always be more prestigious and exciting at cars n coffee. Not to mention the exhaust note!! But I'd take the Turbo, mostly for road trips and rallies
Turbos seem great every day cars for sure. Nothing to not like and probably also the reason it comes with less sticky rubber from the factory than the GT3. Side note - it is a bit cringe when people fit super sticky rubber on their street driven cars, and end up with more wear, more noise and no useable performance on the street when driven legally. That's what a second set of wheels is for..
Great show Steve 👍🏻
I've driven hundereds of laps round Llandow and I can tell you 42.2 is mind blowing...👏👏👏👌 GT3 please, Would if I could ! Steve Sutcliffe & Chris Harris favourite motoring jerno's !
My favorites supercars. They're so pretty. I call them supercars anyway. I'd love to see these two go at it at Anglesey.
Different cars going extremely fast in two very different ways.. I'd have both if I could.
GT3 has Double Wish Bone suspension too! Which is a……… “Double Plus” for me. 😎👍🏽
Nice video! I guess Porsche didn’t want you to try again after swapping the tyres
Results from comparisons where cars wear different tyres / different compounds fall immediately off the cliff. To that one have to add that the test track in question favours the GT3… Regardless and once more: ultimate times do interest me little as well as straight line speed: the GT3 had already won before the test took place! As always thank you for posting.
I’d have the touring GT3 all day long
As a manual 🙌
99.99% of the Porsche buyers will be faster on any track possible in the turbo S
Most Turbo S owners don't track their cars though. Those who do prefer the GT3
@@TheChannel1978 you are totally right,but also the GT3 owners love to race the car on the streets as well
So much want for that GT3
So the GT3 bested the Turbo S by a whisker. Shod in Cup2 tire I reckon the laps times would be virtually the same. Chris Harris had a similar head-to-head a few years ago and was astonished not by the GT3's lap time, rather he was amazed at how potent the turbo was as a track weapon. Also, the turbo doesn't have that ridiculous rear wing. In this order for me: Turbo S, GT3 Touring, GT3.
It would be interesting to compare the manual GT3 with the Turbo S.
destroyed
Great review as always
Great video, great comparison. Well done 👍
Some say Mr Sutcliffe gave birth to the Stig
My quick take is:
Turbo S is for folks who primarily drive on the street but might go to the track. Totally daily drivable and tractable.
GT3 is for folks who primarily want a track car that will wail to 9000rpm, but don't care about road noise and comfort.
Take your pick, they're not really competing directly.
From my understanding the PS2 are too loud and stiff to be useful on the Turbo, and only give you a bit faster lap time because the Turbo has so much more power. It's a win/win here.
If you put the Cayman GT4 into the mix, well, it's a GT3 competitor in terms of driver experience, and it's a lot cheaper too! Another win for enthusiasts!
Would love to see a Turbo S with the Sport Design Aero Kit, sport suspension, and the lightweight package from the factory (all factory options). Put that on Cup 2's and it is faster at virtually any track I bet.
Strewth! Loving these Llandow laps with Stevo
Conclusion : You must have both ! I start to play in the lottery
Both are dream cars. The GT3 is slower but cooler. Id go for cool with a cage ;)
This just shows what an incredible car the turbo S is!!! 👏🏽 the best all round supercar money can buy!
Man this needs to be repeated on same tires. I bet it would be much, much closer.
God, Steve does some of the best reviews in the business.
Dude driving the gt3 is in such a state of perpetual of pleasure, I had to look away more than once
Great Video, keeping it short not to much bla bla and strait to track.Thanks
THANKS STEVE ANOTHER GR8 VID 10/10 MY FAVE 2 CARS
the Tubro was always porsches best car with the highest potential nothing replaces torque
torque available everywhere
What about its true longest model rival, the Corvette? Try a C8 z06/z07 race trim...
6:47 who is that driver??
I suppose I would have to say:
1. A track focussed car on near racing tyres, aero, stripped out interior and other lightening works, is likely to be better and faster on a track. This is not a surprise.
2. Just to even things up, if an Porsche fitted Cup 2s, a lairier wing and some fancy front splitter, how would the times be then? What are we trying to test...what a manufacturer supplies for its intended use or, what can be achieved with a little tweaking? If it's the latter then ask Porsche what they think of the validity of the test.
3. What if an owner wants the ease of a Turbo...a road focussed car, but is prepared to put on Cup 2s and a GT3 type aero set up for a bit more track-ness? Might they achieve an even better compromise and a closer result on a trackday type situation (which many users will never exploit anyway)
I'm just not sure what a test like this shows other than a purely academic time and the interest in how close a fast luxury car can get to a track focussed machine. It's like those tests that compare a 4x4 on street tyres vs one supplied by the manufacturer on aggressive off road tyres.
Turbo S is a versatile and amazing car. It's achievement is the more impressive on this particular track.
Porsche love their cars setting crazy lap times, but even if it wasn't as quick I'd love that GT3 for the glorious sound. Would probably still pick a 981 GT4 over it though...
Sutcliffe is the man!!!! Love the watch by the way 😜
1st time viewer…. great presentation. Now subbed.
Top reviewer.
Great review, Steve!!!👍🙂 If you were going to order a 911 GT3 Touring would you go for the manual or semi auto?🤔
On the street the awd and mass of torque would be so much fun
Mega comparison!! So enjoyable to watch and listen to Mr. Sutcliffe drive these cars as they ought to be driven. That GT3 is a dream car.
Oh and this should have thrice the views of any carwow video...
Steve and Andy Pilgrim ... by far best two track reviewers .
On the same tyres over one lap .. my guess would be turbo.
gt3 is a monster by its sound.
I'd love to see a 992 Turbo S, Lightweight with the stickier tires make a run. I would assume it to dip below the GT3 in lap time. Formidable cars they both are for sure
I'd hardly describe that as an easy win. Half a second and considering the Turbo is on regular road tyres its even more impressive. Llandow is a tiny circuit and while the GT3 would be better on a longer track, longer straights will favour the Turbo. This conclusion of this test is almost identical to Jethro's test of the 991 GT3 v the 991 Turbo around Anglesey which was pretty much the same result.
I did the porsche experience at LA.. both cars are amazing. I was as giggly at the end of my experience as this guy was. I actually enjoyed the turbo more. Agree with everyone else the tires would have made this a even better match up. Also if I'm going to drive it few times a month, I would prefer more power and luxury/comfort of the turbo. :)
I did Turbo S in PecLa as well. I did Gt3 and Cayman in exotics racing (Fontana). Gt3 has more go-kart feeling and better exhaust note but those tire you pretty fast. I would prefer Turbo all day everyday.
Brilliant vid Steve, best comparison, impressed massively with both cars but only one is really available to buy for mere mortals, the GT3 is still unobtanium (cliche comment I know, but sadly true)
Screaming 9000RPM is heaven! GT3 All Day!
i'll take one of each! GT3 for motorsport light track feels and GT2 for the autobahn office commute
Just imagine a set of Cup 2’s on the Turbo. It’ll all change then.
Sucliffe is one of my favorite journalist.
I think even a set of Ps4s would put the turbo s in the same time as the gt3... I still prefer the gt3, but you can't deny the turbo s capabilities.
I've heard rumors that Porsche didn't publish an official Nordschleife time for the Turbo S because it did a quicker lap time than the GT3, and Porsche wanted to market the GT3 as the car that was meant for track work.
MotoJourno Rhetoric: "GT3 blew Turbo S away, wins easily" Reality: half a second difference.
It's a lot over a short 46s lap in the mind of a racer or even those who just go to track days and hone their PBs. Yes blew away is hyperbole but it is a meaningful point of difference.
Although both cars are amazing BUT I still took the Turbo S over the GT3 as track days are rare and daily drive is of the Turbo S is Superior to the GT3 . Great video !
Stick them both on the same rubber then and in theory the Turbo S should munch the GT3...
I confess though that I had no idea there was this level of power difference between the two, let alone the price - I had always assumed the Turbo S to be cheaper than the GT3....
Aftermarket prices, yes.
Great video, but just wrong words at the end. 42.3 vs 42.8 isnt a BIG diference... for me this is a win for the turbo s... with 250kgs more and normal street tires still makes the gt3’s life hard...
That ladies and gentleman is how to drive!
that GT3 sounds incredible.