What a great video! This is something working players need to see and hear. This is a real service. Thank you. Now. The model is a 100w amp and the amp in the room is a 30 w. The wattage always goes to the low end first. So either capture the 30w or switch the real head to the 100 and the low end will match better. A lot of pros with working schedules are using Tonex Pedals (not tonex one) as back ups when they cannot travel with the preferred amp. This happens a lot when I am a sideman and the main band already has their main set up. They need me for "extra" stuff in major markets to sound like the album. This is the perfect time to use Tonex in the PA and maybe run a dedicated small monitor for myself. It does feel different than a real amp.. and you do have to expect that. I don't prefer it but I can do a great job regardless.
As has been commented and said in the video, at a gig where there was a big PA the amp would have mics on it and that would be going through the PA then. So a good A or B test would be the mic'd up amp through the PA versus the tonex through the PA. Then the sounds are coming through the same delivery system. This video also shows that the tonex captures amps extremely well.
Playing alone, the Tonex sounds great through PA or FRFR speakers. However, I think a good soundman would want to pull some of those lows out of the Tonex and maybe even boost some mids so you would sound better in the band mix anyway.
I'm getting close to 70 and I've gotten tired of lugging the big amps around. I do one man shows and still am my own roadie so I've gotten to where I quit bringing my amp and use my pedal board running through my PA and listen through my monitors. On smaller gigs I will cheat and use a multipurpose am with guitar and vocals that is wedge shaped and use it for the monitor and use the line out to go to the mains. Less gear to worry about and still get good sound... but that ToneX sounds amazing. I'm currently using a Boss ME-90 which sounds pretty good itself, especially for the price. One thing I have noticed over the years is most audiences can't distinguish the nuances in sound that most musicians pick up on right away. Good video and it is looking like the future, even Lita Ford has gone to just bringing her pedalboard to live performances. She says she can practically carry everything on a carry on for her trips.
A modeler and a PA is definitely the way to go, and has been for me for quite some time. Interesting to hear this direct comparison, since I have not yet heard the 50M in action. That said, I think the frequency spread of my JBL PRX One is probably more to my liking, though these column thingies can be tweaked quite a bit with EQ so as to alleviate the „mids hole“ that lives between the smallish speakers and the huge sub (comparatively speaking). This is a trade-off of all columns, but being able to also monitor oneself with the same speaker, with very little risk of feedback, is another huge plus. As for the ToneEx, I have the big-box one and the One. It, too, needs precise EQing and hi- and low-shelving to sound better than in the demo. A bit too much sizzle for the 50M, it seems. But all this can be tamed with a bit of effort, so why mess with lugging and micing a real amp? Don‘t own a single amp, and life is good. :-)) P.S. I should add that my modeler/profiler of choice nowadays is no longer the ToneEx, but rather the Fender Tone Master Pro (properly set with a decent hi- and low-pass on all the combo cabs used). It‘s more organic and smooth than the ToneX by a long shot, and certainly tweaking to one‘s heart‘s content, and exceedingly easy to use by comparison with any device I‘ve used or investigated so far (and that‘s a lot!).
Ok, so maybe you could have been more scientific, but that’s good enough for me any day! Brilliant analysis, gentlemen, you’re doing some of the best guitar-rig videos on TH-cam! Thank you.
Hi guys !! i have the the tonex one ( i'm pretty happy with it ) and i also have a Soldano Hot rod 50 and other amps. Your video is pretty cool and i agree with what you say, the problem is that the PA is not on the stage with you like the amp, normally is 3 to 5 meters in front of you ( even in small clubs, weddings or private party ) and is addressed to the people so you're not hearing directly the power of it. Normally in these cases you're required to use In-ear ( mostly ) and all the punch and power that the PA has, is lost for you. Also, The video si about playing the PA like an amp so the cost is not 199 euro (tonex ) vs 3500 ( SLO ) but tonex and PA vs amps. if i have to carry a full PA as an amp is not much convenient 🤣. Anyway is a great video about the tone of the tonex in a PA system. Ciaooooo
Finally someone who says something I agree with. I would add that you need two of these for a band and each one costs €2,200, plus the subwoofer alone weighs 20kg, the same as a 100w head.
I have been playing through two vamps my whole adult life. I bought the original Tonex when it was first released and have been using it exclusively ever cents. I still own two vamps but always prefer the tone X. I also have never received so many compliments on my tone.
Thank you so very much for this comparison. And also all your hard work. It's very much appreciated. Very interesting and useful information. Thanks again indeed.
One thing I noticed with ToneX 1 captures is for the most part, there is more low end. Thats great if you want that chug. However not so great with clean amp captures. I spend a lot of time EQ-ing the capture removing that overbearing flub to tighten up the tone.
thanks so much for doing this sort of test, it's the big thing that is hard to also show effectively, can't deny that PA sounds huge, Soldano has maybe a bit more in the midrange, PA seemed have a bit of rumble in the subs/lows but overall a bigger more mixed sound (which is to be expected i guess) would absolutely love for you to do this with a FRFR cabs (Laney , or the Fender FR12 for example) to get a different example of this as well, i'm yet to get into the PA/FRFR rabbit hole for modellers, but i think it definitely seems worthwhile
@818Kira thanks mostly play clean amps with too expensive pedals, do you think it worth a try, mostly heard brick wall metal sounds on tonex ,so still hesitate
great video gents... normally sound guys will run a Hi-Pass filter on all guitar signals coming in so that it doesn't come out the subs... this tightens up there tones and helps them sit better in the mix with bass and drums... You might also find that both the ToneX & Soldano setup will actually sound much closer in comparison with a hi-pass filter @ 150hz put on the PAs input channel for the pedal
Linear array systems are the way to go nowadays. I have made decision to buy a pair of those about 5 years ago , and they are shockingly good (both band and solo gigs)! Also , I am using no valve amp on the stage for at least 15 years as well. Instead , I am using modeler processor . Just need to mention that, to emulate guitar cabinet ,I have engaged global EQ on it, with lowcut & hi cut (60khz- to 10-12000klhz) . And that makes modeler to cut through the mix just like any guitar cabinet . I am fully aware , that most modeler brands advertising their products , with cab. simulations that mimics real cab(about naturally cutting the lows and the high frequencies) , but my experience taught me that this is NOT THE case. Those processors are designed to impress the guitar player the moment he switched it on for the first time at home. And then it comes the first band rehearsal ...Ouch!🤣 The guitar plays in the frequencies of both bass and the cymbals at the same time ! 😳 So , just in case ... Engage that low and hi cuts on global EQ ,OK?🙂
Great job Paul and James, your ears taking one for the team for sure. Remember Tinnitus is real and it’s not fun to live with !! 👍 I like the Tonex and so would my ears 😂❤🔥🤘
I have tried this configuration. There is a lack of punch with FRFR. You can have a lot of volume but the punch is not there on transients. I could not get the attack of a tube amp.
I have used amp modelers and profilers for years, and it sounds pretty good. Very convincing. But I recently played an amp in the box, and it sounded better with my frfr. It was somehow more fun and satisfying on so many levels to play with the amp in a box. Sound wise and dynamics in playing. Amp miked up sound from a real amp vs. amp miked up through a digits solution is still more satisfying.
In my earbuds, it's the toneX all day. Richer and fuller across the EQ spectrum. I guess you could mic the cab and EQ the same way but I'm just loving the vibes of the modeler.
On my laptop, the Amp sounded a bit richer, thicker than the EV 50. However, the older I get, the less I want to lug around big amps. Great shoot-out! THanks
As someone who has used the Evolves a lot in the past they can certainly punch their weight for a decent function type hotel gig. Plenty of options with the DSP, in fact I have even used them at the NEC before. Perfect for Fitness events and alike and speech carries well with them.
What I’ll do is I have four eq knobs on my Fractal for live use to make it sound more like an amp in a PA system. A highpass at around 120Hz, depending on the PA; a boost at around 800Hz; a cut at around 3k, and finally a lowpass at around 6,5k.
Tonex won this so smooth the amp sounds crackly and clipping at the same db . Also as a gigging musician the less the better and the setup time with the tonex is unmatched 💪🏻
ANY SLO demo (as long as the players know how to dial one in) is a good demo. But, the better example probably would’ve been the Tonex vs the SLO pedal. Great video, regardless. I had no idea ToneX was putting out gear of this quality.
Good to hear a shoot out like this from the 2 of you. I wonder how the Tonex sounds via a power amp like SD PowerStage via the 2x12 cab, in case you profile the line out signal. Maybe even closer to the real thing?
I'm getting more and more interested in the Tonex One for the small gigs I play. I'd love to know how it would respond to a boost in front of it, just using one preset as my amp into a PA with my Clapton Strat for anything from clean to lead.
Great demo. Another suggestion would be to use 1 or 2 Fender Tonemaster FR-12 1000 watt powered speakers and place that next to the the comparable amp. The Fender FR-12 is an amp cab design and will sound more like the real deal compared to that sub and top powered PA.
Great video! However, I'd love to hear the real amp mic'd through PA, just like you said. That's the real comparison since the amps get mic'd on stage, usually
If I may, I’d like to add one more item for consideration: my gigging band, like many others, uses our PA *only* for vocals and acoustic guitar. If I were to add a hot electric guitar via my full-sized Tonex pedal into it, it would overload the speakers’ sonic capabilities and the mix would get sloppy. We’ve tried it. Thus, as a guitarist I would be back to hauling around my own FRFR speaker(s) - which in my opinion do not sound even close to a guitar amp + cab.
Surprisingly, the closest I’ve come to having the PA and amp on stage match is the ZT lunchbox. My understanding is the internal speaker is full-range, and the amp part of it cross-walks and makes the full range speaker sound like a guitar amp, not a mic’d guitar amp. Send the headphone out to FOH (the internal speaker still sounds an acts like a stage monitor) and it makes the whole PA sound like a guitar amp, not a mic’d amp. With some good pedals it sounded great. I haven’t tried their newest version yet, hopefully it carries forward that characteristic.
I use to own a Tonex pedal but sold it. It's a great tool for recording/studio, but when playing it live it just didn't have the "feel" of a real amp, which I need when playing live. It felt very "plastic" if that makes sense. I tried to bond with it but went back to playing with pedals and quilter superblock for live use and couldn't be happier.
Hi guys im on a mission at the moment trying to find the best way to setup my guitar through my PRX 1 JBL any tips I know there are posibly many ways but what do you think is best. I don't really know what im doing all this high tech stuff ? I just wanna know the best way to get great tones sounds from guitar through the PA👍
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Tried to trade in that same amp at Guitar Center and was told under $550. Great shape and only three years old. GC told me the market for large amps are dead.
Great idea and great vid. Been saying just that for years! Also. A pa system will have a much wider and more even dispersion pattern than a guitar cabs 30 degree "beam" of sound.
You missed a bit…. Through a Neumann KU 100 to an Apple iPhone speaker, so it’s all of a muchness till I get up and get my headphones 😂. Thanks for doing this comparison! ❤
It is incredible what can be done with technology today, until not long ago achieving this tone would mean an investment of several thousand dollars, and that is without counting the weight of the equipment and maintenance. Today get closer to that tone only costs you the equivalent of happy meal (if you are using plugins) or the price of one stompbox if you are using the tonex x. 👌
Practically it comes down to monitoring ie hearing yourself and the rest of the band hearing you. I use the Kemper Stage with the Powered Kabinet which in my opinion is the best soultion for me. Still have stage level that can be controlled. Sounds great through the PA. Is a compact rig to transport. Nevertheless had some resistance in a rock band setting where everyone still wants to use amps. The hybrid scenario of some amps and some direct doesn't really work in practice. I mean it should as keyboard players have been going direct for 40 years or more now. Try bringing a Kemper/ToneX to a blues gig or a hard rock gig. Very challenging here in Melbourne Australia 2024.
I’m glad ToneX is working for some people. I wasted money on it before getting my Kemper unfortunately. I may find use for it in the future as it’s not a POS gear. It just didn’t work for me in what I was going for. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s a Kemper killer without trying both of them for your needs if at all possible. Yes kempers cost a bit more but I love it and they are not even in the same league as far technologies concerned and who they are made for depends on who you are as a player and your needs
Point 1: The sheer joy of experiencing the SLO30 (or any amp making the most of its headroom) giving your leg hairs a bit of a wake-up call cannot be understated. Point 2: The EV PA and Tonex combo sounded plenty good enough. Point 3: Cannot help but feel you missed a trick by not plugging into the vintage radiogram behind you, if only for completeness’s sake. Point 4: Paul - you’ve answered a question I’ve mulled over for ages about where you wear the guitar to play standing up. We typically watch you playing sitting down, so the guitar sits relatively high on your body. And it’s clear that you also wear it high to play standing up. Billy Sheehan once gave advice at a clinic eons ago about this: basically “practice as you intend to play, seated or standing’. Is that your rationale for playing high too?
hopefully someday someone will release a pair of stereo IRs from that neumann binaural microphone. i'd love to have the amp in the room sound with headphones at night.
The ev evolve 50 is $1800. Guitar doesn’t need a subwoofer. You can go much much smaller. I have a headrush 108 and a 112. The 112 can sound massive but I have to cut anything below 80-100 hz to not compete with the bass. (You’ll also get a much tighter sound) and you can pole mount them. I usually bring just the 108 now and it’s great. Super portable. I can carry my guitar, multi fx and speaker in one trip
But how is the ‘feel’ of the tonex as a player? The way an amp reacts to your hands on the strings is often the big difference from a players perspective How does the tonex compare in this regard?
Great question. Also, is the EV supposed to be dedicated to the guitar or are you running everything through it? These heavily distorted chunka chunka chords sound almost identical on real amps and modelers, but when you get into solos the game changes quite a bit simply by how it feels. I'd also have liked it if they played with the tonex EQ in real time. Does the tone of the capture go to hell when the EQ is adjusted?
Is the PA speaker FRFR? I find with my Tonex One pedal, I like playing through an FRFR speaker on my modeling amp cab more because most of the modeled amps sound good through it because it was designed to handle a wide array of amp sounds. So not just the Soldano sounds good but also the Matchless, Trainwreck and PRS HDRX.
I think this was brilliant! Really goes to show how cool this tech has gotten. Although it would be interesting to hear something less gain, maybe just a fender or a two rock, is it as inspiring? I play UAFX at home through monitors and FRFR but it is not even close as inspiring feel wise. It feels stiff and disconnected
Certainly the tech is here for great FOH guitar sounds from digital means. What does it say that right now I'm tossing up different options for a higher end modeller/capture+effects system (quad cortex, FM9, Kemper Stage etc) and I'm seriously looking into a compact Windows PC running VST plugins with a midi pedal/audio interface, since it's an open updatable platform. The keeping you happy on stage thing is tricky, I mean if it truly is a nearly silent stage then you may have to go IEMs and the whole amp thing is redundant. But another option is a nicely voiced 15 watt tube amp tilted up like a monitor wedge in front of you, either miced or with a direct IR output device like CAB M+ for FOH. Ive actually been running my amp just as a personal monitor and not to feed the room or even the stage (everyone has foldback if they need more of me) for some time.
Can you trim back the sub on that EV? If so, plus a little mid boost, and really are mostly there. Maybe tamp down a bit of fizz up top. I would think a little EQ going in would sort it.
Bottom end of the PA has too much information compared to a guitar cab. What would be interesting would be to see how a custom IR made from the same exact cabinet in the room would sound on this PA system
What is the most affordable PA that does this comparison justice? Not the same, but justice in light of the cost and logistical advantages of the ToneX? Danish Pete made the Positive Grid Spark Live sound amazing. What's available for even less than the Spark LIve $600 or so that does the ToneX (or Positive Grid app) justice?
The problem here is that the ToneX already has the sound of a microphone built into the capture. There's no way to capture the amp in a room sound accurately
No one can use real amps anymore because venues are too soft now. No volume, keep it quiet so folks can talk over your performance. Might as well play acoustic jazz like they did in the 30’s.
The Tonex sounds more polished and finished, akin to what you’d hear on a record. Additionally, I'd like to know if reverb on the Tonex was either on or off. On the other hand, the Slo sounds more raw and unprocessed, but that’s not the kind of sound you’d expect at a large concert. The Slo would be miked, compressed, and EQed for FOH which contributes to their polished finish the audience would hear. Since they were responsible for capturing the Tonex, they likely know the specific microphones used. It would be interesting to compare Slo miked like it was for the capture through the PA and then make a comparison. I suspect a lot of the difference would disappear, because miking matters. A LOT. However, I personally prefer the finished version of the Tonex. And the fact that I can buy it and use it anywhere with little or no additional work needed by FOH, makes the Tonex a no brainer. (Dirty little secret about live sound at large concerts: You're probably hearing a modeler out front. The stage amps are for the band. If there is a mic, it's being blended with a modeler. That's just how things are down now. Quie stage makes the house and monitors sound better at lower volume.)
guys im trying to replicate this exact setup. I've been using my evolve 50 for ages and been using various modelers. I just got a tonex one and im about to get yr soldano pack. Can I ask, how are you connecting 2 the mixer? Are u using a di box or straight into 1 of the imputs?
Love you guys, this was a fun time! This channel should be much bigger than it is. Very discerning tone on this channel, love it
Cheers fella
What a great video! This is something working players need to see and hear. This is a real service. Thank you. Now. The model is a 100w amp and the amp in the room is a 30 w. The wattage always goes to the low end first. So either capture the 30w or switch the real head to the 100 and the low end will match better. A lot of pros with working schedules are using Tonex Pedals (not tonex one) as back ups when they cannot travel with the preferred amp. This happens a lot when I am a sideman and the main band already has their main set up. They need me for "extra" stuff in major markets to sound like the album. This is the perfect time to use Tonex in the PA and maybe run a dedicated small monitor for myself. It does feel different than a real amp.. and you do have to expect that. I don't prefer it but I can do a great job regardless.
What a massive ball dropping sound, love it! This is the future of gigging setups, no doubt
Tonex sounds more “hifi” because the PA are full frequency. Great comparison and video 🙏☀️
As has been commented and said in the video, at a gig where there was a big PA the amp would have mics on it and that would be going through the PA then. So a good A or B test would be the mic'd up amp through the PA versus the tonex through the PA. Then the sounds are coming through the same delivery system. This video also shows that the tonex captures amps extremely well.
Great ballsy tone with both. The Silver Sky demonstrating that it can sound killer for classic rock tones. Nice one guys.
Playing alone, the Tonex sounds great through PA or FRFR speakers. However, I think a good soundman would want to pull some of those lows out of the Tonex and maybe even boost some mids so you would sound better in the band mix anyway.
which either could be done on the soundboard, or on the pedal. It isn't like the Tonex lacks the ability to do EQ adjustments.
I'm getting close to 70 and I've gotten tired of lugging the big amps around. I do one man shows and still am my own roadie so I've gotten to where I quit bringing my amp and use my pedal board running through my PA and listen through my monitors. On smaller gigs I will cheat and use a multipurpose am with guitar and vocals that is wedge shaped and use it for the monitor and use the line out to go to the mains. Less gear to worry about and still get good sound... but that ToneX sounds amazing. I'm currently using a Boss ME-90 which sounds pretty good itself, especially for the price. One thing I have noticed over the years is most audiences can't distinguish the nuances in sound that most musicians pick up on right away. Good video and it is looking like the future, even Lita Ford has gone to just bringing her pedalboard to live performances. She says she can practically carry everything on a carry on for her trips.
The compression on the ToneX is pretty significant. SAG emulation maybe?
A modeler and a PA is definitely the way to go, and has been for me for quite some time. Interesting to hear this direct comparison, since I have not yet heard the 50M in action. That said, I think the frequency spread of my JBL PRX One is probably more to my liking, though these column thingies can be tweaked quite a bit with EQ so as to alleviate the „mids hole“ that lives between the smallish speakers and the huge sub (comparatively speaking). This is a trade-off of all columns, but being able to also monitor oneself with the same speaker, with very little risk of feedback, is another huge plus. As for the ToneEx, I have the big-box one and the One. It, too, needs precise EQing and hi- and low-shelving to sound better than in the demo. A bit too much sizzle for the 50M, it seems. But all this can be tamed with a bit of effort, so why mess with lugging and micing a real amp? Don‘t own a single amp, and life is good. :-)) P.S. I should add that my modeler/profiler of choice nowadays is no longer the ToneEx, but rather the Fender Tone Master Pro (properly set with a decent hi- and low-pass on all the combo cabs used). It‘s more organic and smooth than the ToneX by a long shot, and certainly tweaking to one‘s heart‘s content, and exceedingly easy to use by comparison with any device I‘ve used or investigated so far (and that‘s a lot!).
Ok, so maybe you could have been more scientific, but that’s good enough for me any day! Brilliant analysis, gentlemen, you’re doing some of the best guitar-rig videos on TH-cam! Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi guys !! i have the the tonex one ( i'm pretty happy with it ) and i also have a Soldano Hot rod 50 and other amps. Your video is pretty cool and i agree with what you say, the problem is that the PA is not on the stage with you like the amp, normally is 3 to 5 meters in front of you ( even in small clubs, weddings or private party ) and is addressed to the people so you're not hearing directly the power of it. Normally in these cases you're required to use In-ear ( mostly ) and all the punch and power that the PA has, is lost for you. Also, The video si about playing the PA like an amp so the cost is not 199 euro (tonex ) vs 3500 ( SLO ) but tonex and PA vs amps. if i have to carry a full PA as an amp is not much convenient 🤣. Anyway is a great video about the tone of the tonex in a PA system. Ciaooooo
Finally someone who says something I agree with. I would add that you need two of these for a band and each one costs €2,200, plus the subwoofer alone weighs 20kg, the same as a 100w head.
I thought we were assuming you are playing through the venue PA ,silent stage ,else you’d take your real amp
Ty Studio Rats, this is the video I was waiting for !
Amazing test.
I think all the guitar test should be done with the mic u guys have now.
I prefer the PA😮 sound
I have been playing through two vamps my whole adult life. I bought the original Tonex when it was first released and have been using it exclusively ever cents. I still own two vamps but always prefer the tone X. I also have never received so many compliments on my tone.
Thank you so very much for this comparison. And also all your hard work. It's very much appreciated. Very interesting and useful information. Thanks again indeed.
Glad it was helpful!
How about in a band mix, does the tonex cuts through? I hear a lot of low end, maybe it's muddy and buried when other instruments are added?
I think it’s quite easy to solve in the mixer.
One thing I noticed with ToneX 1 captures is for the most part, there is more low end. Thats great if you want that chug. However not so great with clean amp captures. I spend a lot of time EQ-ing the capture removing that overbearing flub to tighten up the tone.
thanks so much for doing this sort of test, it's the big thing that is hard to also show effectively,
can't deny that PA sounds huge, Soldano has maybe a bit more in the midrange, PA seemed have a bit of rumble in the subs/lows but overall a bigger more mixed sound (which is to be expected i guess)
would absolutely love for you to do this with a FRFR cabs (Laney , or the Fender FR12 for example) to get a different example of this as well,
i'm yet to get into the PA/FRFR rabbit hole for modellers, but i think it definitely seems worthwhile
Tonex sounds boomy soldano cuts through the mix, live gig with the Tonex might require an eq pedal to clean up this mess, great video thanks mates
It’s because the PA has a subwoofer
Just turn down the bass on the tonex
It’s not worth the 3800 dollar difference lol
@818Kira thanks mostly play clean amps with too expensive pedals, do you think it worth a try, mostly heard brick wall metal sounds on tonex ,so still hesitate
great video gents... normally sound guys will run a Hi-Pass filter on all guitar signals coming in so that it doesn't come out the subs... this tightens up there tones and helps them sit better in the mix with bass and drums... You might also find that both the ToneX & Soldano setup will actually sound much closer in comparison with a hi-pass filter @ 150hz put on the PAs input channel for the pedal
Why was the sound through the EV getting quieter then louder, quieter then louder?
The video i've been looking for.
You should do more of these guys. Try the TC Electronic Jims45 through it 😉
Linear array systems are the way to go nowadays. I have made decision to buy a pair of those about 5 years ago , and they are shockingly good (both band and solo gigs)! Also , I am using no valve amp on the stage for at least 15 years as well. Instead , I am using modeler processor . Just need to mention that, to emulate guitar cabinet ,I have engaged global EQ on it, with lowcut & hi cut (60khz- to 10-12000klhz) . And that makes modeler to cut through the mix just like any guitar cabinet . I am fully aware , that most modeler brands advertising their products , with cab. simulations that mimics real cab(about naturally cutting the lows and the high frequencies) , but my experience taught me that this is NOT THE case. Those processors are designed to impress the guitar player the moment he switched it on for the first time at home. And then it comes the first band rehearsal ...Ouch!🤣 The guitar plays in the frequencies of both bass and the cymbals at the same time ! 😳 So , just in case ... Engage that low and hi cuts on global EQ ,OK?🙂
YOU GUYS ARE AMAZING!
Great job Paul and James, your ears taking one for the team for sure. Remember Tinnitus is real and it’s not fun to live with !! 👍 I like the Tonex and so would my ears 😂❤🔥🤘
Great comparison and demo. Thanks Rats!
I have tried this configuration. There is a lack of punch with FRFR. You can have a lot of volume but the punch is not there on transients. I could not get the attack of a tube amp.
Great comparison chaps! Both sound mega.
I have used amp modelers and profilers for years, and it sounds pretty good. Very convincing. But I recently played an amp in the box, and it sounded better with my frfr. It was somehow more fun and satisfying on so many levels to play with the amp in a box. Sound wise and dynamics in playing. Amp miked up sound from a real amp vs. amp miked up through a digits solution is still more satisfying.
In my earbuds, it's the toneX all day. Richer and fuller across the EQ spectrum. I guess you could mic the cab and EQ the same way but I'm just loving the vibes of the modeler.
Mucho expensivo 😂😂😂 Lads, you put a smile on my face. 👍🏽
Well, that's settled. My back would be happy if I was still gigging.
On my laptop, the Amp sounded a bit richer, thicker than the EV 50. However, the older I get, the less I want to lug around big amps. Great shoot-out! THanks
the gain is down on the real amp in comparison and the eq is set slightly different.
I listened through higher end headphones.
I heard the same.
amp in room vs amp + mic. that’s it 🤷🏻♂️
Did anyone else think Paul was Tom morello at first glance with the hat on?
I did say that on the day.
I swear I did😂
Yes I did 😂
As someone who has used the Evolves a lot in the past they can certainly punch their weight for a decent function type hotel gig. Plenty of options with the DSP, in fact I have even used them at the NEC before. Perfect for Fitness events and alike and speech carries well with them.
Why don't you matched the with the eq?
Because we wanted to show the amp and how the PA sounded out the gate.
Tonex + PA for me
What I’ll do is I have four eq knobs on my Fractal for live use to make it sound more like an amp in a PA system. A highpass at around 120Hz, depending on the PA; a boost at around 800Hz; a cut at around 3k, and finally a lowpass at around 6,5k.
Tonex won this so smooth the amp sounds crackly and clipping at the same db . Also as a gigging musician the less the better and the setup time with the tonex is unmatched 💪🏻
ANY SLO demo (as long as the players know how to dial one in) is a good demo. But, the better example probably would’ve been the Tonex vs the SLO pedal. Great video, regardless. I had no idea ToneX was putting out gear of this quality.
Cool, thanks!
Yeah, on vacation I saw a guy playing with tracks, but an LP and I think a Boss ME-90 though a Bose L1 Pro 16. Sounded great!
Good to hear a shoot out like this from the 2 of you. I wonder how the Tonex sounds via a power amp like SD PowerStage via the 2x12 cab, in case you profile the line out signal. Maybe even closer to the real thing?
I'm getting more and more interested in the Tonex One for the small gigs I play. I'd love to know how it would respond to a boost in front of it, just using one preset as my amp into a PA with my Clapton Strat for anything from clean to lead.
Great demo. Another suggestion would be to use 1 or 2 Fender Tonemaster FR-12 1000 watt powered speakers and place that next to the the comparable amp. The Fender FR-12 is an amp cab design and will sound more like the real deal compared to that sub and top powered PA.
Great video! However, I'd love to hear the real amp mic'd through PA, just like you said. That's the real comparison since the amps get mic'd on stage, usually
If I may, I’d like to add one more item for consideration: my gigging band, like many others, uses our PA *only* for vocals and acoustic guitar. If I were to add a hot electric guitar via my full-sized Tonex pedal into it, it would overload the speakers’ sonic capabilities and the mix would get sloppy. We’ve tried it. Thus, as a guitarist I would be back to hauling around my own FRFR speaker(s) - which in my opinion do not sound even close to a guitar amp + cab.
Surprisingly, the closest I’ve come to having the PA and amp on stage match is the ZT lunchbox. My understanding is the internal speaker is full-range, and the amp part of it cross-walks and makes the full range speaker sound like a guitar amp, not a mic’d guitar amp. Send the headphone out to FOH (the internal speaker still sounds an acts like a stage monitor) and it makes the whole PA sound like a guitar amp, not a mic’d amp. With some good pedals it sounded great. I haven’t tried their newest version yet, hopefully it carries forward that characteristic.
Great video. And important. What you can do with modern and CHEAP gear these days...
You guys are great, and I would look at the DB meter if James wasn't standing in front of it 😁
He is always in the way!
Ill be over the moon when I know how to set up my guitar with the PA system
Absolutely fantastic have a wonderful weekend ❤😊
Thank you! You too!
I use to own a Tonex pedal but sold it. It's a great tool for recording/studio, but when playing it live it just didn't have the "feel" of a real amp, which I need when playing live. It felt very "plastic" if that makes sense. I tried to bond with it but went back to playing with pedals and quilter superblock for live use and couldn't be happier.
Hi guys im on a mission at the moment trying to find the best way to setup my guitar through my PRX 1 JBL any tips I know there are posibly many ways but what do you think is best. I don't really know what im doing all this high tech stuff ? I just wanna know the best way to get great tones sounds from guitar through the PA👍
Tried to trade in that same amp at Guitar Center and was told under $550. Great shape and only three years old. GC told me the market for large amps are dead.
Is it a 1/4 inch jack to xlr for the connection to the pa? Thanks.
Please make the same video with clean , Puch clean and a bit of rock & roll drive / blues sounds
Wish you would of done the tonex through a power amp through the soldano cab too
Great idea and great vid. Been saying just that for years! Also. A pa system will have a much wider and more even dispersion pattern than a guitar cabs 30 degree "beam" of sound.
Great point!
Why do the captures always sound gainier than the original amp?
You missed a bit…. Through a Neumann KU 100 to an Apple iPhone speaker, so it’s all of a muchness till I get up and get my headphones 😂. Thanks for doing this comparison! ❤
It is incredible what can be done with technology today, until not long ago achieving this tone would mean an investment of several thousand dollars, and that is without counting the weight of the equipment and maintenance. Today get closer to that tone only costs you the equivalent of happy meal (if you are using plugins) or the price of one stompbox if you are using the tonex x. 👌
Midrange is missing from the pa but is that the pa or the Tonex? Need to mic up the amp and run through the pa to see.
I am thinking of trying the tonex with the new Fender power cab 12-inch. I just want amazing headroom cleans!
Great stuff. I was thinking about stereo EVerse 8 battery speakers. I reckon it would be nice on stage, stood between
them.
The tonex capture doesn't have the rich bottom end the actual amp provided, listening thru my home theater speaker system.
Hello, how does it sounds in a clean amp?
The ToneX through that PA sounds much better, and higher fidelity than the actual Amp.
Great content! Thanks!
Practically it comes down to monitoring ie hearing yourself and the rest of the band hearing you. I use the Kemper Stage with the Powered Kabinet which in my opinion is the best soultion for me. Still have stage level that can be controlled. Sounds great through the PA. Is a compact rig to transport. Nevertheless had some resistance in a rock band setting where everyone still wants to use amps. The hybrid scenario of some amps and some direct doesn't really work in practice. I mean it should as keyboard players have been going direct for 40 years or more now.
Try bringing a Kemper/ToneX to a blues gig or a hard rock gig. Very challenging here in Melbourne Australia 2024.
I’m glad ToneX is working for some people. I wasted money on it before getting my Kemper unfortunately. I may find use for it in the future as it’s not a POS gear. It just didn’t work for me in what I was going for. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s a Kemper killer without trying both of them for your needs if at all possible. Yes kempers cost a bit more but I love it and they are not even in the same league as far technologies concerned and who they are made for depends on who you are as a player and your needs
Are you going Guitar to pedal, Pedal to Mixer, then Mixer to PA or are you going straight through the PA ?
The PA has an inbuilt mixer
This is what I need to know!
Point 1: The sheer joy of experiencing the SLO30 (or any amp making the most of its headroom) giving your leg hairs a bit of a wake-up call cannot be understated.
Point 2: The EV PA and Tonex combo sounded plenty good enough.
Point 3: Cannot help but feel you missed a trick by not plugging into the vintage radiogram behind you, if only for completeness’s sake.
Point 4: Paul - you’ve answered a question I’ve mulled over for ages about where you wear the guitar to play standing up. We typically watch you playing sitting down, so the guitar sits relatively high on your body. And it’s clear that you also wear it high to play standing up. Billy Sheehan once gave advice at a clinic eons ago about this: basically “practice as you intend to play, seated or standing’. Is that your rationale for playing high too?
The real Amp will always sound better, but the Tonex is an amazing bit of kit for certain situations!
hopefully someday someone will release a pair of stereo IRs from that neumann binaural microphone. i'd love to have the amp in the room sound with headphones at night.
The ev evolve 50 is $1800. Guitar doesn’t need a subwoofer. You can go much much smaller. I have a headrush 108 and a 112. The 112 can sound massive but I have to cut anything below 80-100 hz to not compete with the bass. (You’ll also get a much tighter sound) and you can pole mount them. I usually bring just the 108 now and it’s great. Super portable. I can carry my guitar, multi fx and speaker in one trip
Would love to see the same thing with a Fender FR-12 or FR-10
But how is the ‘feel’ of the tonex as a player? The way an amp reacts to your hands on the strings is often the big difference from a players perspective
How does the tonex compare in this regard?
Great question. Also, is the EV supposed to be dedicated to the guitar or are you running everything through it? These heavily distorted chunka chunka chords sound almost identical on real amps and modelers, but when you get into solos the game changes quite a bit simply by how it feels. I'd also have liked it if they played with the tonex EQ in real time. Does the tone of the capture go to hell when the EQ is adjusted?
I guess it’s gonna be a mystery….. after all this is a video by a retailer who wants to sell these pedals.
Is the PA speaker FRFR? I find with my Tonex One pedal, I like playing through an FRFR speaker on my modeling amp cab more because most of the modeled amps sound good through it because it was designed to handle a wide array of amp sounds. So not just the Soldano sounds good but also the Matchless, Trainwreck and PRS HDRX.
I think this was brilliant! Really goes to show how cool this tech has gotten. Although it would be interesting to hear something less gain, maybe just a fender or a two rock, is it as inspiring? I play UAFX at home through monitors and FRFR but it is not even close as inspiring feel wise. It feels stiff and disconnected
I gotta admit, I’m sold on the ToneX and the PA. Lots of bottom end…wish you played that Les Paul style behind you Paul instead of that PRS 😊
if youre playing a private party or wedding, i doubt any patron would or could care. but as for me id rather play a tube amp live.
One is ears, one is microphone captured.
It’s a totally different things
Certainly the tech is here for great FOH guitar sounds from digital means. What does it say that right now I'm tossing up different options for a higher end modeller/capture+effects system (quad cortex, FM9, Kemper Stage etc) and I'm seriously looking into a compact Windows PC running VST plugins with a midi pedal/audio interface, since it's an open updatable platform. The keeping you happy on stage thing is tricky, I mean if it truly is a nearly silent stage then you may have to go IEMs and the whole amp thing is redundant. But another option is a nicely voiced 15 watt tube amp tilted up like a monitor wedge in front of you, either miced or with a direct IR output device like CAB M+ for FOH. Ive actually been running my amp just as a personal monitor and not to feed the room or even the stage (everyone has foldback if they need more of me) for some time.
Can you trim back the sub on that EV? If so, plus a little mid boost, and really are mostly there. Maybe tamp down a bit of fizz up top. I would think a little EQ going in would sort it.
Yes you can,
huge difference. The ToneX has a "fizz" and hard edge that I find displeasing. real amp sounded less gainy? but had a much rounder sound
That Soldano sounds juicy. Roll a bit of low end ioff on that pedal and it would sound better i'd say
Bottom end of the PA has too much information compared to a guitar cab. What would be interesting would be to see how a custom IR made from the same exact cabinet in the room would sound on this PA system
Cut it down to 2x12“ and use Hoovi Deeflexx! ❤️
LPF between 8 and 10kHz on the PA system . That’ll make it sound more like the cab.
Great stuff, just be sure not to stand in front of the dB meter 😅
What is the most affordable PA that does this comparison justice? Not the same, but justice in light of the cost and logistical advantages of the ToneX? Danish Pete made the Positive Grid Spark Live sound amazing. What's available for even less than the Spark LIve $600 or so that does the ToneX (or Positive Grid app) justice?
Is that a Seymour Duncan 200 on top of the Amp? Do you use it with your tonex pedal?
The problem here is that the ToneX already has the sound of a microphone built into the capture. There's no way to capture the amp in a room sound accurately
It’s the same as having a mic in front of a cab. Thats how it’s captured.
No one can use real amps anymore because venues are too soft now.
No volume, keep it quiet so folks can talk over your performance.
Might as well play acoustic jazz like they did in the 30’s.
The Tonex sounds more polished and finished, akin to what you’d hear on a record. Additionally, I'd like to know if reverb on the Tonex was either on or off. On the other hand, the Slo sounds more raw and unprocessed, but that’s not the kind of sound you’d expect at a large concert. The Slo would be miked, compressed, and EQed for FOH which contributes to their polished finish the audience would hear. Since they were responsible for capturing the Tonex, they likely know the specific microphones used. It would be interesting to compare Slo miked like it was for the capture through the PA and then make a comparison. I suspect a lot of the difference would disappear, because miking matters. A LOT. However, I personally prefer the finished version of the Tonex. And the fact that I can buy it and use it anywhere with little or no additional work needed by FOH, makes the Tonex a no brainer. (Dirty little secret about live sound at large concerts: You're probably hearing a modeler out front. The stage amps are for the band. If there is a mic, it's being blended with a modeler. That's just how things are down now. Quie stage makes the house and monitors sound better at lower volume.)
guys im trying to replicate this exact setup. I've been using my evolve 50 for ages and been using various modelers. I just got a tonex one and im about to get yr soldano pack. Can I ask, how are you connecting 2 the mixer? Are u using a di box or straight into 1 of the imputs?
Would have been interesting to see a blind test to see how many people thought the PA was the amp.