MW, I’ve actually bought a few of your Helix presets, rare for me to do. Your ear and ability to recreate tones is really good - or at least works well with my set up. Thanks.
Please please please hunt down then review the clip of the Berkeley Music Professors' improvised jamming session. Priceless. Living breathing proof that an Ivy League university education is a truly wonderful thing
Here's the deal. Most people buying a toneX don't have a bunch of multi-thousand dollar amps and a home studio with amazing pre's and thousand dollar mics. That is this the appeal of toneX. I can buy toneX and go online and pay 20 - 30 bucks for amazing captures of amps I could never afford. That vast majority of users aren't capturing amps. That's why the capture isn't part of toneX one like it is for quad cortex and kemper. That is where toneX is so appealing to someone like me.
Agree, I purchased one for this very reason. I bought a metal pack and use it mostly for silent practice. With that the best part of the Tonex, was I discovered how much I like Peavey's 5150/6505. I found an excellent 5150II, and Wahoo!. And haven't touched the Tonex since.
I love my tonex… plain said❤ive finally able to hear how other amps sound like with my pedals and been quite inspired without spending thousands of dollars on amp.
By far best digital media I've tried (and that's about all of them). Maybe Rhett should try and "just plugin my tube amp" and get a great tone here at my place at apartment volume!
I’ll give you a tip. Get a tube distortion pedal and use it in front as a substitute of the gain in the ToneX. It will feel like a real amp and sound exactly the same. This trick works with any modeler. I use a BK Butler Tube Driver.
Jason Sadites has amazing videos on input trim for tonex. he did the actual level measurements, and in his study the best setting for tonex is -3 db, and it should not change per guitar, just adjust gain on amp to taste. it’s working perfectly for me on my tonex one, just spreading the good word 🙏
I thought that you couldn’t go below 0db on the input trim, because that would be the obvious solution to the problem in the video. Thanks for confirming.
Your results are interesting when it comes to gain staging for sure. I've captured about 50 amps so far on both TONEX and QC, and I find them both to be nearly exactly the same as the amp's actual settings, but it took me a bit of time to get there. In my experience, Quad Cortex often comes in with a bit less gain than the amp itself, so I've often compensated for that by either turning the gain on the amp up just a tiny bit before capturing (as opposed to how I compare it), or I've adjusted the In1 and In2 levels to try and compensate for it, although those level settings don't seem to make a ton of difference in the gain of the capture. For TONEX, there have been two things that have helped... First, in the TONEX pedals, there is an 'Input Trim' setting that can have a huge impact, but I don't think that would have come into play in your tests here, and I'm sure you and Michael set that up. I think by default IK had (or had?) it set at like +8dB, and I have to put mine at around 0dB on the pedal for it to sound and react like the actual amp. But during the capture process, I had to really get picky with the attenuation setting on the TONEX Capture box. I have found a sweet spot on the dial for my particular setup (and admittedly the routing and signal path I have set up here is overly complicated). For me, I have to set it around 1:30 on the dial. But I have found that I need to adjust it from amp to amp to get the gain staging correct. So after writing all this, I suppose I'd agree that these things can be a bit overly complicated to get a 100% spot on capture, but with enough experimentation it's been really reliable for me. But I guess if you're a person capturing a ton of amps, all this testing and adjusting is worth the time investment. If you're a player just wanting to capture the amp (or few amps) you own so you can play the captures live, it could be really frustrating. Always enjoy the content, Rhett (and Michael)!. And to both of you guys - I also enjoy the music you all make outside of TH-cam.
I haven't captured myself but all the ones I've heard have been much closer than this. In fact Leo Gibson proves how ToneX is the must exact of them all, except maybe the NAM.
Not exactly clickbait if he spends the entire video talking about tonex and the problem he’s having with it. I also don’t see how he could condense that problem into a phrase short enough for a video title.
Captioning your comments while you play is also an EXCELLENT idea. It makes listening to your performance an even more impactful learning experience. Keep it up!
Based off of my experience with the Tonex pedal, here are some things to try that might be helpful: 1. Use the test riffs from the Tonex software when dialing in the tone of your real amp--not your guitar's signal. After the the capture process is complete, use the Preset Gain parameter (NOT the Global Input Trim) to get the desired gain level for whatever guitar you're using. 2. Speaking of gain, if the Tone Model has a greater amount of gain than the real amp, as noted in this video, it's likely that in the Global Input Trim is too high. Also make sure that all the parameters on the pedal are set to default (at the 12:00 position.) 3. The reason why captures take so long, especially on Macs, is that Tonex leverages the GPU during the capture process. On Windows systems with specific NVIDIA cards, the capture time can be as low as 15 minutes using advanced training. 4. There is a big difference, at least to my ears, between using normal and advanced training. All of my normal captures are dull in the high end in comparison to my advanced captures. This isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on your needs, but the extra training time is worth it if you absolutely need the most accurate capture.
I’ve noticed *a lot* of people talk about digital modelling and profiling as if they’re the same thing, and it only furthers the public’s misunderstanding. Digitally modelling an amp is like analyzing all the aspects of a real hardware amp and recreating them and all their behaviours with software emulations . Profiling takes a “snapshot” of the sound of an amplifier at a specific setting. Two entirely different things. The Tonex is not a modeller.
I'm sorry the Tonex is also a modeller. I believe when you buy it, it comes loaded with Amplitube amp modeling. Of course you can and should upload some good 3rd party captures.
@@florisvanlingen you are not able to load the amplitube amps into tonex, you can only use the software with it. So sorry, youre wrong. The Tonex is only a capture/profiling machine.
Actually, both methods are a form of modeling, in the scientific sense - they create an analogous Transform via an algorithm, which at the Math level IS modeling. 🤔
@@Ic3Ang3lhe didn’t say you could load amplitude amps on it. He was saying that he thought maybe the amps that came on it were amplitude amps. The point is that they are modeled amps, not captures. Edit: I don’t know if that’s right or wrong. I just know that you weren’t accurately addressing his statement.
Firstly, I love your videos .I have been using Tonex pedal and Tonex and love it .I personally have over 50 tone captures up on ToneNet .I don't use the tonex capture box,just my Focusrite 18i8 ,I think you have over complicated the whole process .It's not that complex .With levels, I just try not to run it too hot during the capture process. Not every capture will be perfect for everyone, but I personally wouldn't swap it for anything.
Sounds like you need to watch some of Jason Sadites videos. He's gone in deep on how to set your levels with Tonex. I just set the global input trim on my Tonex One to -3 per Jason's advice and use great sounding captures that others have done. I don't have a basement full of great amps, but I have a bunch of great amp captures that I could never afford loaded into a tiny pedal that costs less than $200. Winner!
There is no problem! Watch videos of Jason Sadites about this subject. He has lots and lots of videos about this. They certainly help me with the whole capturing process and after that I never had problems with gain differences, but it takes some calibration....
@@StratsRUs , I don't say he isn't a great teacher or guide. But there is no problem with the Tonex if you follow some basic understanding about gain levels and calibration of your audio interface. Jason was a co-developer in the early days of the Tonex system. I think he knows a thing or two about how Tonex works.
I'm not a professional, and save for my vintage twin, I'm not comparing amps to the modeling app I use, (it's available to me but I don't use Tonex) but since the last modeling video pointing out input gain issues, I've had a much easier time getting tones I actually like. So much so that I wonder if I'll ever plug my beloved amp in again - The versatility is mind-blowing.
I picked up a Tonex pedal a little over a year ago and yeah, I've noticed the same issues you did. The biggest thing that attracted me to the Tonex platform was the pedal's ability to model (mimic? emulate? copy?) the tone of pretty much any amp you can name. I also noticed the same issue with the Tonex pedal that I've noticed with every piece of digital gear I've ever owned: the stock/factory presets often range from not-quite-right to outright garbage. Yeah, it took some serious work, but I was finally able to get it where I want it. As I took a deeper dive into the ins and outs of the pedal and the software, I found myself able to craft tones I could actually use. Now it's an integral part of my ampless rig. I like the idea of being able to bring a whole truckload of amps and cabs out without having to rent a truck and hire a crew to help me lug it around. Sure, it has its drawbacks, but it has its moments once you figure it out.
I am not a touring musician so I have the luxury of using what I like. Although I still have space constraints at home and the family may not appreciate me blasting my 4x12". So I found out that my different preamps through either a Torpedo CAB or through my Engl rackmounted amp into a Torpedo X is the best of both worlds. 50/50 tube and digital. Works great for me.
Thanks for great videos!! This is the best sounding example of the Tone X. These companies are getting so good at this. But I hear something in the high frequencies that sounds plastic but when playing chunky rhythms it sounds great. I will keep my tube amps no software needed!!!
Yeah, this is my live rig now: HX Effects with the Tonex pedal in loop 1. This is after having a decades long love hate relationship with tube amps (love the sound, hate the reliability and upkeep) this is what i use now, and I get tons of guitarists checking out my rig, asking what I use, etc. There are a few tutorials out there for setting the input gain (Jason Sadonites had the first one I used) I really believe that's central to the "User error" that's giving you the difference in capture vs real connection. I've never had the patience to do captures myself (I've also owned a Kepmper and very briefly had a Quad Cortex) I just want basic amp types (pushed Fender, Marshall low and high gain, Vox Ac, Dumble/Fuchs/TwoRock, etc.) so I guess I'm using it as a more versatile/complicated Strymon Iridium with captures already done by people with better studios and amps than mine.
For most guitars with "normal", passive, medium output pickups, you should start playing / re-amping the Tonex software or pedal with input trim somewhere between -3 and -4 dB with current software / firmware versions - the pedal MUST be adjusted from its default, which is in the area of +8 dB, if you want a "natural" response and dynamics. If all you want is maximum gain, compression, and no dynamics, the default should work :-) The defaults will also work well with an original Charlie Christian pickup (
Michael nailed it. If you have to do a bunch of different tones, particularly with significantly different instruments in a gig but you want multiple amps then even with the extra work it's hard to beat the ToneX. There are a bunch of options for sure and not all of them are equal, so I think, for me, it comes down to what is, hard as it is to say, good enough. Ideally I have friends to help me drag my heavy and loud gear around and a place to play that lets it be really loud, but that ideal is getting rare these days.
Been using the tonex one for a couple of months. Experimenting with the gain at different stages helps a lot. For me, once I finally set the output of my audio interface to the right level, my captures started matching the sound of the actual amp extremely well. Yes, it takes patience. It takes numerous captures and experimenting to start getting it right. I prefer to capture with slightly more gain as opposed to less gain and roll back the preset gain slightly on the pedal if needed. The platform is not perfect but I've yet to have issues where I needed to reinstall the app. Sometimes killing the app and resetting/unplugging my audio interface is needed, but that's the same for a number of guitar/audio apps I've used in the past. For $180 and using hardware I already own (audio interface, attenuator), I've made captures of my gear that sound great and are very close to the real thing.
I’m tube amp guy, I’ve grown up playing them and it’s what my ear is accustomed to hearing. My Bad Cat Black Cat 30r amp my Divided by 13 ccc 9/15 together are tonal bliss for me. I do regularly play on and own a Kemper toaster and bought a ToneX One. They’re all great tools and using the right tool for the right job is important to me as a player. I play in worship environments almost exclusively so running a quiet stage is crucial. At the end of the day a tube amp running into a load box, mine are Rivera Mini Rock Crushers, is the best solution I found. Do I use and own digital solutions, absolutely, but they’re not my go to solution when 99% of the time there’s no rehearsal and limited sound check. It’s plug in and play and nail it the first time. Amps will most likely always be where I reach.
This is only an issue if you have the mentality of having to get exact captures of your own amps. I simply just go on tonenet once every couple weeks, audition rigs, favorite the ones I like, and within a few months have the best of the best at my finger tips. It takes a little effort given that probably 80% of the captures are not good, however, once you find those diamonds in the rough, it's set and forget time- you now have access to tones that would cost tens of thousands of dollars to buy, for a few hundred.
ToneX sounds great, however tonenet and the tonex software are undoubtedly the worst UI I have ever experienced. 'Most popular by week' as the only popularity filtering feature is simply insane given how tiny those numbers are. Maybe once Tonenet gets 100x more users that'll be a viable filter
Still getting the hang of dialing in the tones. Find that some far better than others. Running Tonex within Loopy and have been using the volume within Tonex and saving presets to normalize volumes.
Loudness, volume and gain are really complicated. One of the key challenges is that volume and loudness are different, so sometimes volume peak meters are tell you something totally different than a LUFS meter, because sometimes the louder amp has less volume. Impedance also introduces some complications. This is super fiddly if you can't script / automate it but I find measuring multiple points on input vs output level is handy, so you can see they both start to compress at the same point.
Everything Michael said, I can confirm. I love my Silver Jubes and my SL 59 HW and so I never wanted to go fully digital/modeling. The QC and kemper never felt as good to me as the Tonex, especially because they didn't take pedals well( I use a Klon and a SD 1 for boosting). A couple points: find good captures (Michael Nielsen or Amalgam come to mind) and don't play with eq's or gain settings. Don't forget that the right IR ist crucial. My input trim is at 4db with HB.
Thanks for bringing up amalgam, but i would STRONGLY encourage everyone to use the ToneX EQ for tweaking - it does not mess up the core texture and qualities of the sound, except when you go to extremes. But reducing bass or treble or adding a bit gain or sometimes reducing it a bit works REALLY well on captures that are made well.
I have this TONEX and its amazing actually. But, I use it with my amp through the effects return and with pedals. The only thing is in the signal chain I do all my OD's before the tonex and after the tonex, I stick in a boost, EQ, Radar Cab pedal and Mooer Preamp Gold 12 on the blue channel to really give the tonex something you will not be disappointed doing. It really brings the tonex to life and it can also act as an attenuator to bring the volumes down while at home. Then that runs into the delays and reverb them to the effects return on my Marshall amp. I have not gotten to capture any amps yet, I don't have all that gear to do so yet. But man I am really happy with Tonex.
I want to get one, but curious where this should go in the signal chain. I'm also using pedals in the effects loop (Reverb, Strymon Mobius). Any suggestions?
@@MerrickGuitar Ok bro. Pretend the TONEX is you amp. Ill keep it short to give you an idea of what you can do. From your guitar, go into you overdrive, distortion pedals, to the input of the TONEX. Then out of the tonex, into EQ Pedal, Delay, Reverb, and then out of your last pedal, into the effects loop return of your amp. NOT THE FRONT of your amplifier. No chords will run to the front of your amplifier because the return bypasses that. Just make sure you have a speaker cabinet hooked up normal to not damage your amp. That's pretty much it.
I think the percentage of people buying the TONEX to capture their own amps is extremely low. I have a TONEX and haven’t even entertained the idea of capturing any of my sub $1500 amps, it’s just not why most people are buying these 😂.
@@gregsteffey1266 - I mean I’m sure there are plenty. I’m thinking the mass appeal with the Tonex one is primarily not going to be that market though. Even then, how many amps are you modeling? Minor headache at the beginning but unless you have some massive studio you are trying to catalog then it’s not that big of a deal.
@@fndrr42 I agree with you. I will probably only ever do a few of my own and maybe a couple of friends amps. For me it’s worth the time and money to even just model one amp if it sounds, feels and reacts to my pedals the same as my 66 Princeton. I have yet to find a capture that sounds anything like my amp.
The point was that even others capturing amps leaves a lot to be desired so what type of 'interpretation' of the amp you're trying to use are you really getting? Then there's the endless parade of different captures, whose is best? Personally, I just need a Twin Reverb and AC30 but who supposedly/arguably/subjectively makes the best capture? You probably would have to go through all of them and pick the one you like best. That alone can take an awful long time; time that could've been better spent playing.
Record your guitar straight into your DAW so it's a DI clean signal, then drag the tonex over to change the sound, then adjust the input gain but ALSO your DAW mixer input level which will give you more scope on levels... You can drop your DAW input level and then boost the channel volume or the master volume on the amp in tonex to compensate... Obviously if you're recording into the tonex then into your DAW then you can use your pre amp and use that to adjust the input gain
Even a cheaper Tube amp sounds better than most digital. The tubes just sound richer, more dynamic, sounds don't cut off quickly like digital does, not perfect, warmth, etc.... just digital, as good as they have come, some how sound flat or thin. Too perfect and the sound is not there. Like no soul in it. I can definitely see the convenience of it, gets you there 80 percent, but that 20 percent missing is where the magic is. I remember a jam session, where I literally spent the whole session twiddling with the sounds on the Multi-FX unit and never finding any settings I was very happy with, instead of just playing. Lol it was a bit frustrating. I knew how to use it. Lol a good amp just seems more special to me, even if not perfect. I like the noise and feedback and all.
I saw Crowder last Summer in Duluth, MN, and the electric guitar tones were incredible! Michael must have dialed them in perfectly! I’ve played guitar since 1970, and always use a tube amp and pedalboard. Played churches for 35 years. This Tone X and other digital modelers are just too complicated for me at my 66 years. In the 90’s I used a 12 space rack system, which was pretty complicated.
i'm sticking with a good amp, a cable and a guitar. I find myself more times than not, going down a rabbit hole searching for the ultimate tone with these gadgets. Rhett does a great job deep diving into this pedal.
Rhett great video! I have a great deal of respect for Michael, his talent and knowledge in the guitar world. I eased into the ToneX world integrating the ToneX One into my Stomp rig. Rhett I think you nailed my frustration experience too when you said the capture levels were all over the map. I tried dozens and dozens of captures before finding two that would give me usable. BTW, the amp captures I ended up with were non IK factory captures. Having said that, the capture models I ended up with are excellent.
Thanks Rhett, this is a really great video. I always wondered about the process and what kind of rabbit hole I'd get into with Tonex. You just confirmed my suspicions and validates why I started to go the digital/modelling route and why I stopped. Way too much trial and error. I have a pedalboard with a UAFX Dream 65 that, in my opinion, sounds killer. I can quickly EQ and dial in tones when necessary, without any headaches and frustrations; no worrying about input gain, global EQ settings, etc, etc.
I do agree with this. I got one of the best sounds I've had out of the Tonex. Been using my Helix for 8 years, recently switched to pedals again, and Tonex as my sound source. But it took me a LONG time to find it, DEFINITELY don't bother with the stock presets 😂 And I've not captures amps myself, because I don't have any at the moment. But I've heard the process is really frustrating compared to other things.
just started using Amplitube 5 SW for my DAW and am shocked how good it is. Larry Carlton to SRV to VH with amazing dynamics. Stunned how good my setup sounds.
I bought a fender gtx 50 modeler and hands down is one of the best intelligent decisions since my interests in guitar sparked back up. I didn't know what goes in the chain or what order and certainty didn't have a endless supply of money to diddy around for 20 years buying pedals. I did my homework prior to purchase and I'm very happy with it. Also they sound great and have pretty much endless settings and can download programmed tone settings from great guitar players, in fact tim pierce has some excellent tones just so us lucky guys can install the setting in our modeling amps. My fender has a 12 celestion 70/80 speaker and is more than capable of ripping off my lipps.
I feel like all modelers can work if you take the time to tweak it enough. For me, I bought the helix plugin and it took me a while to be happy with it, then I purchased the LT. Now I am 100% happy with it using mostly IR’s, I can get any sound I want.
Man, the comparison between your capture and presets was extremely helpful. Even though I don’t have the pedal (and don’t plan to buy one), just the understanding of the _possibilities_ and applying them to my own equipment was illuminating. Thanks!
Personal dealbreaker: No effects loop. Mono effects loop would be fine, a stereo loop would make this a must buy. But the total lack of any effects loop so I can put reverbs and delay between the pre and power amp just makes it not worth it.
I have a Tonex One and it took me over a month but after wrapping my head around the Input Trim, I figured it out. I've played it live twice and I'm loving the results. I use a GFI Enieqma to dial it in a bit more as well.
Great video. I echo some of the other comments in that I think most of the people buying Tonex (like me) are doing this and using other people’s captures instead of buying amps. I only play direct in my situation and wanted a stereo setup with lots of options…I don’t even own an amp. Running a dual Matchless rig like I am would costs thousands, but now I have it for less than $600 (running a Tonex and Tonex One), and I can change it whenever I want. I think most Tonex owners are using it this way with their traditional pedals, and for folks like us, this tool is perfect. If we want to get to your level of control, we know we’ll need to drop a ton of cash on our own gear and maybe then we’ll reconsider. But for now, this was the perfect solution and I love it.
Bought the QC earlier this year. I love the amp models and IR's already on the board. I haven't used the capture technology because I don't own many amplifiers. I love that I can use the QC as a digital interface into my DAW. I love that I can take it to any venue and dial in any sound I need for that type of gig. I love that it is small and compact. I don't see myself going back to amplifiers anytime soon. It is too much of an investment to buy a tube amp and a pedal board.
I still gig with Fender amps, but the Tonex is the first recording alternative of the many, many I have tried that consistently puts a smile on my face during playback. Tech these days is nucking futs.
The problems you're describing lineup exactly with a friend of mine's experience. He noticed the difference between the sounds in the plug-in versus the sounds in the pedal. He would set up sounds he wanted in the plug-in, and then transfer them to the pedal, only to discover that they sounded vastly different.
As a Tonex owner, I can understand and sympathize with the learning curve--and there are aspects that IK could simplify. Also, I am not a fan of the stock presets. However, so much of the frustration in this video is just understanding the pedal's gain stages (Jason Sadites has good stuff on this). I've made dozens of captures and have purchased amazing captures from sites like Amalgam Audio and Jason--and I dump them on the pedal with no issues. A/B tests are hard to hear any difference. I've run direct captures into the power amp of my Mark V into a 2x12 cab, and it sounds glorious. Spend some more time with it.
As with everything, there is lot of experimentation needed. I consider ToneX an incredible tool. The UI could be simplified, but in the end all the capturing devices work the same, some are quite a bit more complicated than ToneX. I think ToneX hits the most sweet spots. Essential to get the tones right is to get the levels and gain staging right in all places. First of all you need to have the reamped signal to be same level as your guitars signal directly to the amp.
Rhett: transferring a preset to the computer is such a PAIN , sitting in front of the computer…what an issue Also Rhett: dialing a lot of rack units, heavy valve amps, tons of cabels… so easy
There is many variables to consider, set the the input to -3 to -4.0 db and leave it alone on the Tonex, Then set the gain on the amp to your likeing depending on the pups you are useing, plus most important of all your sound source.Example: Studio montors/Headphones/ amp cabs/ Direct line to PA are all 4 going to sound completely different, Advice is to Perfect one amp at a time and put a Boss GE7 in front and adjust accordingly to your sound. It would be nice to plug and play and sound exactly like the original capture that you heard from the designer of the capture, It's like thinking you are going to buy a signature guitar or Amp and you are going to sound like the artist. Good luck with that, It's all in your hands on the guitar and the ability to learn how to use the modelers right. Once you get there it is an awesome time to be a guitar player in the modeler world. Rock on and be patient while haveing FUN!!!
I switched from a helix to dual tone x’s and I couldn’t be happier. I haven’t tried to capture an amp. Instead I have purchased a some captures and they are sounding incredible to me
I used to run a guitar store back in the day.. I found this video more instructive than most other sources. I value your opinion, especially when you label a statement as an opinion. Plus having Michael counterpoint and identify his opinions gives this a chance at objectivity. Suggestion for another video: talk through how your switching works I.e. how programs are loaded and how you physically move from one to another. Personally I would want to know what amp you’re playing through with modeling. Is it set up flat? How do other touring players get where they are going on stage.
Oh my gosh, thank you. My buddy and I have spent months on and off trying to capture our amps into the Tonex and I feel like I’m losing my mind. The captures always basically sound good but never anything like the real amp, no matter how I set the various gain stages. This video is the only one to accurately reflect how I feel about this thing.
This is me. Toured with a group and had a Pod XT Live and TC Electronics G System. Basically ran in ears for years and stopped about 8 or 9 years ago when I started using tube amps again. Plus, I had bought a Fractal and was overwhelmed by the stupid editing of it. I never even used it live! Just bought a NuX Amp Academy (last year (which I actually love once the time to set it up is put in), a Line 6 HX Stomp, and the Tone One. I'm in ears with another group so I need that option (again). I figured the best one will rise to the top and win out. Thank God for TH-cam having resources for getting back into this world.
Came for this, nothing to add ! Got a nice boutique tube amp but no mics to capture it, and I live in a flat so instead I play a 100W Plexi trough Tonex, my neighboors don't know about it but they are happy anyway !
So, I’ve experienced what you went through with gain but I believe you inadvertently covered the issue at the beginning of the the capture demo when you pointed out that the gain of the software’s example was hotter than your guitar through the same amp. What I found myself doing is dialing ing my desired tone for the capture with my guitar and then played the software guitar and split the difference with the gain setting. It got me closer the the correct gain setting.
I use Tonex with HX Stomp XL connected via effects channel. I am using clean, crunch and heavy captures for each amp. Channel changes are done with midi per snapshot and all the I/O - EQ problems and gain staging I mainly fix on my HX Stomp XL. Even if I have the amp, I buy the presets because people out there are doing it better than I do for a few bucks. This also helps with the DSP shortage. Not having amps in your preset gives you more space for complex effects.
The biggest advantage of this profiling approach is that I can now capture my 100 Watt JCM 900 Marshall and have it sound like the speakers on my laptop. I never was able to do this in the past .
This was my exact problem with my Tonex. Gain staging is EVERYTHING for me, especially when dialing in my overdrives. In a live situation where I can't use an amp, I just go to my UA Dream or my mini board built around my HX Stomp. I still use my amps for home recording/session stuff, but the "real amp" sound of the Tonex is not enough for me to put it above my UAFX pedals or even my Strymon Iridium.
First thanks for all these test :). Just wanted to mention that I noticed a kind of difference in harmonics between the QC (at 15:28) and the ToneX pedal (at 15:35) that would make me somehow prefer the QC. Once said, I'm not listening to youtube with a crazy setup :)
I would love to see how NAM compares to this now. Captures I have made sound spot on, and are easy to make. Now there is hardware and VSTs coming out with the software in it, because its open source. I really think this is the future of captures.
I returned my Tonex, I will probably buy one used in the future because the Joe Satriani pack really got me the sound I have been looking for without having to spend lots of money. I have also been looking for a nice Mesa Boogie Mark IV sound but I have been unable to find one I really like, even the paid ones doesn't quite get there. I have never owned a tube amp, I have always used Axe FX, and before that I had solid state amps. I recently got myself a Mesa Boogie Mark IV rev B, and I couldn't be happier. I just use the amp paired with a Torpedo Captor 8 ohm as a load box, and my Axe FX for effects and IR. But if I wanted to I could have just bought Captor X and loaded some IR onto that and then bring a few pedals. When people rave about Tonex saying it's so nice not having to drag truckloads of gear with them I just think, is it that bad? I mean you can just skip the part about bringing a speaker cabinet if you use a load box with IR, there are hundreds of IR out there so you will find one you like, then you just need to drag your amp, loadbox and something for the effects you prefer. It's not that much gear. I was also not impressed by the noise gate or the reverb on the Tonex. There is also something about the way the Tonex behaves when playing that I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it, keep in mind this was before I had tested a tube amp so I coulnd't compare it to a previous tube amp experience, only stuff I have heard on youtube.
Funny you make this video now, I just picked up a ToneX pedal about a week ago! I'm in the strangely fortunate situation of having been gifted an incredible tube amp a few years ago (Fargen 50w Olde 800mk2) that made any thoughts of buying a cheaper, more bedroom appropriate tube amp seem ridiculous especially when I'm an amateur player -- I really just felt lucky to have an amp that I would've killed to have years prior. I never bought a Kemper or Helix because I couldn't justify the price as an amateur, but the ToneX hits such a sweet spot. I've been absolutely loving playing with tons of different tones I never had access to before! The software is definitely annoying and has its quirks, sometimes I can't download a tone model and I have to mess around in the home tab until I can get it to come back up in Tonenet. I think that for the price it's an amazing piece of tech, but I also believe you get what you pay for with the higher end amp sims.
Lemme yell ya that while i did the small size and price of the new little tone X, I’m still team UAFX all the way. This capture concept has the same issue IR’s have: there’s just too many, and it’s unclear if you’ve really found something that sounds truly good by the time you settle for one. If any of you have mixed your own records, you know what can happen when you’re twisting knobs for hours; you keep tweaking and tweaking and it sounds “great”. The next day you open up your mix and it sounds like it was recorded in a tin can. There’s a whole art to mixing. In the same way, there’s a whole art to picking IR’s, captures etc. And most of us aren’t that good at it. It’s a skill. There’s just too many to muck around with. UAFX on the other hand: it just sounds good. You get 6 flavors of cab and a couple of amp mods from best in class golden units - it’s just the best tones, preselected for you and they’re going to be perfect. No wondering if you’re picking a cab w a weird resonance, or if you just like this capture because it’s louder etc. Leave the sifting through thousands of sounds to someone else.
Great video Rhett. The advanced setting, though takes ages to train, brings the captures to the next level and give you exactly more of the stuff that you are missing - more highs, detail, texture. ToneX and nothing else (apart from NAM with some more advanced and therefore extremely resource hungry models) does not get every detail from the Power Amp fizz, which is a part of that brightness that gets lost. In advanced training it does retain some of that though. ToneX tends to roll of the highs a bit, QC tends to have brighter and MORE dynamic results than the reference. In ToneX you can adjust the gain manually when comparing reference to capture - it is called trim control. The reamp device you use is crucial and the levels you put into the amp.
I recently got a fractal fm9. Tonewise it’s very impressive, much better than the ToneX sounds for my needs (clean to edge of breakup fender/vox/matchless/dumble etc). It’s of course much more pricey than a ToneX, but it’s actually less than a pedalboard with a switcher and any midi delay/reverb pedals etc.
I have a tonex and love it. Basically the guy that had it before me had a Dumble model loaded. I run gain pedals through that and into a Duncan power stage. Then into 2 different cabs v30 loaded and cream/greenbacks, and I'm done. Never been happier. Note, lots of stuff about tonex on the Studio Rats channel. Basically indistinguishable to my ear.
I don't see stock tones as a problem at all - never planned to use them and just utilize the classic amps I want. It does pretty much the best amps of any platform, and let's me use the existing pedalboard, etc., like Michael mentioned. Part of the complexity of your personal captures have to do with the routing down to the basement studio, but capturing is probably always gonna be a bit of a hassle, regardless of platform. Thanks for the video!
The trim input is the same as that on a PA. It is needed because the signal strength coming from the input device will be different from each instrument. It is used to get the best digital representation of that signal. It has to do with using the best area of the FS of the AD converter. Therefore since the signal for each guitar is different you would need to adjust this for each guitar. Having said that, it is impractical to do this in a live situation, so you have to choose a 1 size fits all. Once you have captured a good digital representation then that is the virtual guitar sound that is sent to the virtual amp. You then use the gain control for adjusting the strength of the signal going into the virtual amp. If either the trim or gain is set to high you will get saturation. Ideally you want to do this from the gain and not the trim.
I've owned several of these types of things and once I got the Kemper Stage, it was the complete package. I don't need anything else. 2 years later, the ToneX came out, and I thought that was a solution, but as you indicated, it was a pain. I returned it. I also got the Kemper pedal. No thank you. The versatility just is not there yet, so I am still using my trusty stage direct to the sound board as a live solution.
The Tonex software can be absolutely amazing. The attempt to create hardware for it has brought its own set of unique challenges. I am more than capable and have no complaints about those challenges because the end result is better than anything Ive used. But I come from a time when we had to burn a chip and open the lid on a Linn drum to change 1 drum sound. You might consider how easy you have it and try to do these reviews without all the complaining.
While I have not had any experience with Tone-X, I have personally NOT had a good experience over the years with anything Amplitube. Therefore, this does not surprise me. Honestly, I feel like Amplitube's MO is, and always has been, to do things on the cheap, and then market everything they do as if it's awesome. The truth is, it's just not! Thanks Rhett, for another great video with honest and fair insight to the facts.
It's a computer, so you have to do a little programming. Michael did a great job of trying to help. It hasn't been that hard to use for me, and it works so well live and of course at home.
Very cool to see a crossover video. I follow both of you guys and never put two-and-two together that you are both in the same areas. Michael’s Tonex videos are very informative and his course on getting great recorded tones is really good too
I was disappointed the Tonex didn't have many effects when I bought it, but loved the sounds and tweaks I used. The capture process looked too complicated for me but the idea of taking an amp sound and adding your own effects to it was intriguing but I passed! I am enjoying it as is on my small pedalboard but don't get to play it much. Good video!
I spent a really long time to figure this out. I ended up setting input gain on my ToneX to 0db. And I spent a long time setting the level out of my reamp box. Now I can make a capture and move it to my ToneX without any difference. I can use A/B box between the ToneX and the amp and hear no difference. Reason your getting more gain on the ToneX is that your sending too hot signal out when capturing. The input of the guitar into the recording interface has nothing to do with it. I’ve calibrated my capture process to be correct with the input gain of the ToneX set to 0db. Once you have done that it will be correct all the time.
That's what I thought as well... About to capture my amps and I guess the first one will be trial and error. Once everything is set correctly it should be easy to capture all of them...
I'm using the NUX MG30. A wee bit cheaper (I have a tight budget) but sounds fantastic for what I do. There's no capture but with the addition of Pro scenes and plenty of great IRs that can be added, its great.
Ya, I’ll add in here to help the algorithm: I’m a new tonex user who made the jump over with the One. Yes to issues with gain staging. Agree with many in here that capturing your own amps is such a small minority; I haven’t captured any of mine. I’m up to 400+ amp captures in my library across grips of genres with good amount free and a good amount paid. I love them all for what they are. But like Michael said, trust your ears in this process. Knowing what tone you’re looking for before you start really helps. But all said and done for $180 with the One, I’m not looking for the most plug and play solution. I’m fine with taking the time to figure it out and hearing what works for me.
Hi Rhett, Well it is this kind of complexity which ultimately has me giving up on these devices for live use. I agree that for recording, they are indistinguishable. My full fat Helix will soon be on Reverb, and I am very happy with my new live rig, A Blackstar Amped 3 100 watt floor amp. It is apparently a modeller, but all I can say is that out of the box, first rehearsal, it was killing it with my seven piece band. No setting up live and home patches, no setting up patches at gig volume to overcome Fletcher Munson curve. It just works like an amp. It is very simple to use but gives me enough voice and switching options for all I need on stage. The online editor also works fast and easy and has a few useful options, and not thousands I will never need. For effects I use my beloved HX effects pedal. No need for anything else. (Except my cab and Mission Expression pedal) The older real amps I used needed mixing, the Amped 3 has XLR out. I also want to share with your viewers the joys of Neo speakers. I have now achieved a 12 inch birch ply cab with Celestion Neo V30 that I am concerned could blow away at an outdoor gig…beautiful. 😊
Hi Rhett ! Maybe this affirms the difficulty that you're experiencing with gain/trim input but may help with future profiles creation. Jason Sadites channel in 2023 ("Fine Tune Your Tonex Pedal To PERFECTION!! | Set Your Input Trim PROPERLY!") deals with this issue and provides "tools" to make corrections to match 0db into your interface vs. the Tonex Pedal. Note: There was a firmware update that corrected a hotter default input trim setting.
I split my playing between a tube amp out loud and a digital profiler into headphones for night time practice and have used a quad cortex for some time but recently switched to the tonex one. Two reasons for this: 1) I like using different pedals and the QC did not take certain drives well compared to my tube amp. Some work well but others less so and they definitely do not stack that well. I was in settings hell as i would tweak pedals to sound good on the QC then need to readjust for the amp and vice versa over and over. once i switched to the tonex, the pedals sound equally good on the amp and tonex and i can easily toggle the tonex on and off on my pedal board. It took some tweaking and trying various amalgam captures to find one that worked but once i got it sorted i feel no need to tweak my tonex. 2) f you wanted to go completely digital, the QC is awesome as it can do everything inside the box from amps, cabs, FX etc. For flying gigs, you just bring it and go direct to front of house or a FRFR speaking and you are set. However, if you want to use a combo of analog pedals and just use an amp capture, the tonex one is perfect as you throw it on the end of your pedalboard and it takes very little space and is less than $200. neither of them sound as good as a tube amp, but for playing into headphones at night the tonex into my Axe I/O box is awesome. The UX of the software is awful but once you get the amp set right you are good to go.
Very good video, can't go wrong with Rhett and Michael together. And I like that Orange amp capture. I've got Amplitube 5 MAX and the ToneX software. To this point I am playing IK's captures, the freebies. I do have a couple of amps and in time I might attempt captures of those. No matter what, if you set up capture process, you should take several captures of that amp since it seems that the setup is the worst part. As an aside, the gear is ToneX, one word.
I’ve been running an Atomic AmpliFire12 😮 (oh my!) for years now and have had to suss out similar issues. One thing that took me a while to recognize in their software was how each pedals gain/output relationship stacks up. Kind of like stacking pedals in general. Every model I run (clean, dirty, Fender, SLO, Cornford etc) has individual component level tweaking prerequisites. I’d get everything dialed at the amp and system output levels and then have to go back, add in the other blocks and test em out. Wash, rinse, repeat until it finally all came into alignment… kind of a pain but in the end pretty consistent. After listening and observing your comprehensive work here, I can’t help but think that good, high quality dialed in captures/models and a couple of those little Tonex pedals on my board and I’m good to go!
I’m a drummer who also plays guitar and records in a home studio. I have nice amps. The ToneX gives me one more tool to find a tone I’m looking for. I like the stock amps. Also handy to woodshed an idea at 11pm and not wake my family. The price point made it a great option for me.
Thanks guys for the video! 100 percent awesome! I bought the Tonex when it came out. Hardly use the pedal. Use the software all the time. Awesome stuff!!! I've owned Kemper, Helix, Axe III, all good to great, but love Tonex the most! Yeah, Rhett use other people's profiles, don't do it yourself... Amalgam kills on the type of amps you like.
I can imagine that the shared sonic difference of the Tone X and the Quad Cortex compared to the real amp is due to impedances. If you‘re sending line impedance (60k-66k ohms) instead of instrument impedance (1.5M-2.3M ohms) the modlers will probably behave differently than the amp. I’m however no pro in this matter, i could be completely wrong haha!
Seen Crowder live for my birthday last year, and I must say it was one of the best sounding concerts I've ever seen across any genre. The guitars sounded amazing overall.
@Rhett Shull - FYI, Most of the links to your courses did not work for me. The only one that worked was the one to the Fretboard Fundamentals course. The rest of them took me to a page that said "Sorry, we couldn't find that page". I was able to navigate to the courses via the All Courses page.
The gain of the capture is related to the output of the amp out on the Tone X capture box. Because the impedance of this output is not reacting like a guitar pickup, it will affect the way the amp react also. Mostly by sounding more compressed. The trick that I have found is to output the "amp out" through a transformer with impedance matching my guitar pickup. So far, the Morley Hum Eliminator is giving me something close to that.
Great video! This is a massive issue with Tonex. I have stopped buying captures as nearly all sounded terrible, likely due to the difference in gain structure in my setup vs the rig being captured. I have all of the hardware to make my own captures but am yet to make a one, as it is mind bending and nobody has put a super clear IO description on TH-cam to date. This leaves me trying hundreds of free captures to find ones that sound good. The hit rate is about 1 in 50! Still, when they sound good, they are a match for my amp.
I picked up the Tonex One recently and it's a nice unit. I don't plan to do any captures. With the stock captures, I find that some of the clean amps sound quite good. I haven't heard any distorted amps that sounded good yet. I do think it makes sense to separate the capture process from the unit. It really is a completely different thing than playing and most people won't end up making their own captures.
the pedal is closer than the Qc and the plugin. It is amazing value. I have used one from day one. Captured my vintage amps and also use some Amalgam and Tone junkie. Also the Studio Rats Matchless. I run the first 4 banks as my pre amp into a combi and the next 4 banks have IR's on to go direct. Very simple gigging solution. I have not changed the amps on it since the initial set up. Software is not great so i steer clear of it
Thanks for having me Rhett!
MW, I’ve actually bought a few of your Helix presets, rare for me to do. Your ear and ability to recreate tones is really good - or at least works well with my set up. Thanks.
Loved collaboration & insite on this!!!💪🏿👍🏿💪🏿
Question: did you collab w/ sweetwater guitar b stock giveaway??
Please please please hunt down then review the clip of the Berkeley Music Professors' improvised jamming session. Priceless. Living breathing proof that an Ivy League university education is a truly wonderful thing
Here's the deal. Most people buying a toneX don't have a bunch of multi-thousand dollar amps and a home studio with amazing pre's and thousand dollar mics. That is this the appeal of toneX. I can buy toneX and go online and pay 20 - 30 bucks for amazing captures of amps I could never afford. That vast majority of users aren't capturing amps. That's why the capture isn't part of toneX one like it is for quad cortex and kemper. That is where toneX is so appealing to someone like me.
Agree, I purchased one for this very reason. I bought a metal pack and use it mostly for silent practice. With that the best part of the Tonex, was I discovered how much I like Peavey's 5150/6505. I found an excellent 5150II, and Wahoo!. And haven't touched the Tonex since.
I love my tonex… plain said❤ive finally able to hear how other amps sound like with my pedals and been quite inspired without spending thousands of dollars on amp.
@@Doc-zg3xm Yeah and now with the ToneX One that makes even more sense. So good for a small little practice board setup.
By far best digital media I've tried (and that's about all of them). Maybe Rhett should try and "just plugin my tube amp" and get a great tone here at my place at apartment volume!
I’ll give you a tip. Get a tube distortion pedal and use it in front as a substitute of the gain in the ToneX. It will feel like a real amp and sound exactly the same.
This trick works with any modeler. I use a BK Butler Tube Driver.
sometimes i feel like is easy for some who has a ton of valve amps to find "problems" on less expansive solutions.
And not only that, but actual studio spaces where they can blow up said amps.
They have to or their thousands of dollars invested into their amps and systems lose value.
The You Tube 'Game' is toxic now.Clickbaits and thumbnails made all these rich Zombies.
Realworld playing music is not their thing now.
Jason Sadites has amazing videos on input trim for tonex. he did the actual level measurements, and in his study the best setting for tonex is -3 db, and it should not change per guitar, just adjust gain on amp to taste. it’s working perfectly for me on my tonex one, just spreading the good word 🙏
I thought that you couldn’t go below 0db on the input trim, because that would be the obvious solution to the problem in the video. Thanks for confirming.
@@Qwitsoender you definitely can ☺️
Yep, and it worked for me too when watching this I kept thinking "Just go down a wee bit more there buddy and you will discover gold"
ok, send it to me. i wanna capture my 50s kitchen tube radio. wish it was gainier… have you tried backing off the amp gain a tad before capturing?
Any indication whether that -3 db input trim is meant to be the same for the tonex app/plugin, the tonex pedal, and the tonex one pedal?
"Who is this for?"
Poor people, rhett. Poor people.
Aka vast majority of musicians, even working ones.
People who dont have rich fathers to buy them 335sband boutique amps
I owned a kemper (sold) and own valve amps, and ToneX is a keeper, Kempers sound bad.
that doesnt disprove anything he said in the video, just because its for poor people doesnt mean the tonex doesnt have design flaws.
AHAHA
Your results are interesting when it comes to gain staging for sure. I've captured about 50 amps so far on both TONEX and QC, and I find them both to be nearly exactly the same as the amp's actual settings, but it took me a bit of time to get there.
In my experience, Quad Cortex often comes in with a bit less gain than the amp itself, so I've often compensated for that by either turning the gain on the amp up just a tiny bit before capturing (as opposed to how I compare it), or I've adjusted the In1 and In2 levels to try and compensate for it, although those level settings don't seem to make a ton of difference in the gain of the capture.
For TONEX, there have been two things that have helped... First, in the TONEX pedals, there is an 'Input Trim' setting that can have a huge impact, but I don't think that would have come into play in your tests here, and I'm sure you and Michael set that up. I think by default IK had (or had?) it set at like +8dB, and I have to put mine at around 0dB on the pedal for it to sound and react like the actual amp. But during the capture process, I had to really get picky with the attenuation setting on the TONEX Capture box. I have found a sweet spot on the dial for my particular setup (and admittedly the routing and signal path I have set up here is overly complicated). For me, I have to set it around 1:30 on the dial. But I have found that I need to adjust it from amp to amp to get the gain staging correct.
So after writing all this, I suppose I'd agree that these things can be a bit overly complicated to get a 100% spot on capture, but with enough experimentation it's been really reliable for me. But I guess if you're a person capturing a ton of amps, all this testing and adjusting is worth the time investment. If you're a player just wanting to capture the amp (or few amps) you own so you can play the captures live, it could be really frustrating.
Always enjoy the content, Rhett (and Michael)!. And to both of you guys - I also enjoy the music you all make outside of TH-cam.
I haven't captured myself but all the ones I've heard have been much closer than this. In fact Leo Gibson proves how ToneX is the must exact of them all, except maybe the NAM.
Dang nice to see worship tutorials here
We need to talk about clickbait titles (there’s a problem)
Not exactly clickbait if he spends the entire video talking about tonex and the problem he’s having with it. I also don’t see how he could condense that problem into a phrase short enough for a video title.
Captioning your comments while you play is also an EXCELLENT idea. It makes listening to your performance an even more impactful learning experience. Keep it up!
This was the most important part of this video, for me. 🎉
i loved this too.
Based off of my experience with the Tonex pedal, here are some things to try that might be helpful:
1. Use the test riffs from the Tonex software when dialing in the tone of your real amp--not your guitar's signal. After the the capture process is complete, use the Preset Gain parameter (NOT the Global Input Trim) to get the desired gain level for whatever guitar you're using.
2. Speaking of gain, if the Tone Model has a greater amount of gain than the real amp, as noted in this video, it's likely that in the Global Input Trim is too high. Also make sure that all the parameters on the pedal are set to default (at the 12:00 position.)
3. The reason why captures take so long, especially on Macs, is that Tonex leverages the GPU during the capture process. On Windows systems with specific NVIDIA cards, the capture time can be as low as 15 minutes using advanced training.
4. There is a big difference, at least to my ears, between using normal and advanced training. All of my normal captures are dull in the high end in comparison to my advanced captures. This isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on your needs, but the extra training time is worth it if you absolutely need the most accurate capture.
These are the conclusions I came to as well. The input trim isn't all that useful, IMO.
I’ve noticed *a lot* of people talk about digital modelling and profiling as if they’re the same thing, and it only furthers the public’s misunderstanding. Digitally modelling an amp is like analyzing all the aspects of a real hardware amp and recreating them and all their behaviours with software emulations . Profiling takes a “snapshot” of the sound of an amplifier at a specific setting. Two entirely different things. The Tonex is not a modeller.
I'm sorry the Tonex is also a modeller. I believe when you buy it, it comes loaded with Amplitube amp modeling. Of course you can and should upload some good 3rd party captures.
@@florisvanlingen you are not able to load the amplitube amps into tonex, you can only use the software with it. So sorry, youre wrong. The Tonex is only a capture/profiling machine.
@@Ic3Ang3l🤯
Actually, both methods are a form of modeling, in the scientific sense - they create an analogous Transform via an algorithm, which at the Math level IS modeling. 🤔
@@Ic3Ang3lhe didn’t say you could load amplitude amps on it. He was saying that he thought maybe the amps that came on it were amplitude amps. The point is that they are modeled amps, not captures.
Edit: I don’t know if that’s right or wrong. I just know that you weren’t accurately addressing his statement.
editing rhett discovering face deformation filter is pure gold
Firstly, I love your videos .I have been using Tonex pedal and Tonex and love it .I personally have over 50 tone captures up on ToneNet .I don't use the tonex capture box,just my Focusrite 18i8 ,I think you have over complicated the whole process .It's not that complex .With levels, I just try not to run it too hot during the capture process.
Not every capture will be perfect for everyone, but I personally wouldn't swap it for anything.
Sounds like you need to watch some of Jason Sadites videos. He's gone in deep on how to set your levels with Tonex. I just set the global input trim on my Tonex One to -3 per Jason's advice and use great sounding captures that others have done. I don't have a basement full of great amps, but I have a bunch of great amp captures that I could never afford loaded into a tiny pedal that costs less than $200. Winner!
I love my ToneX One because I don't need to do captures I just download great captures others do for us.
Similar to what you can do with Spark… though I get that Spark is the consumer version of that kind of system…
@@jrm2fla I love my Spark Mini for my practice travel rig and buying used gear where you meet the dude in a parking lot and need and amp to test it.
Using other peoples captures doesn't remove the difficulty setting gain levels to achieve the intended tone....
@@digitalchris6681 - I haven’t had that issue at all. The gain levels are preset once you purchase the capture.
How is the reverb in the One? Choices, Room, plate etc. Everyone comments on all the other stuff but have not heard anything about reverb.
There is no problem! Watch videos of Jason Sadites about this subject. He has lots and lots of videos about this. They certainly help me with the whole capturing process and after that I never had problems with gain differences, but it takes some calibration....
He's a great guide and teacher and I don't see a clickbait addiction with Jason either.
@@StratsRUs , I don't say he isn't a great teacher or guide. But there is no problem with the Tonex if you follow some basic understanding about gain levels and calibration of your audio interface. Jason was a co-developer in the early days of the Tonex system. I think he knows a thing or two about how Tonex works.
I'm not a professional, and save for my vintage twin, I'm not comparing amps to the modeling app I use, (it's available to me but I don't use Tonex) but since the last modeling video pointing out input gain issues, I've had a much easier time getting tones I actually like. So much so that I wonder if I'll ever plug my beloved amp in again - The versatility is mind-blowing.
I picked up a Tonex pedal a little over a year ago and yeah, I've noticed the same issues you did. The biggest thing that attracted me to the Tonex platform was the pedal's ability to model (mimic? emulate? copy?) the tone of pretty much any amp you can name. I also noticed the same issue with the Tonex pedal that I've noticed with every piece of digital gear I've ever owned: the stock/factory presets often range from not-quite-right to outright garbage. Yeah, it took some serious work, but I was finally able to get it where I want it. As I took a deeper dive into the ins and outs of the pedal and the software, I found myself able to craft tones I could actually use. Now it's an integral part of my ampless rig. I like the idea of being able to bring a whole truckload of amps and cabs out without having to rent a truck and hire a crew to help me lug it around. Sure, it has its drawbacks, but it has its moments once you figure it out.
I am not a touring musician so I have the luxury of using what I like. Although I still have space constraints at home and the family may not appreciate me blasting my 4x12". So I found out that my different preamps through either a Torpedo CAB or through my Engl rackmounted amp into a Torpedo X is the best of both worlds. 50/50 tube and digital. Works great for me.
Thanks for great videos!! This is the best sounding example of the Tone X. These companies are getting so good at this. But I hear something in the high frequencies that sounds plastic but when playing chunky rhythms it sounds great. I will keep my tube amps no software needed!!!
Yeah, this is my live rig now: HX Effects with the Tonex pedal in loop 1. This is after having a decades long love hate relationship with tube amps (love the sound, hate the reliability and upkeep) this is what i use now, and I get tons of guitarists checking out my rig, asking what I use, etc.
There are a few tutorials out there for setting the input gain (Jason Sadonites had the first one I used) I really believe that's central to the "User error" that's giving you the difference in capture vs real connection.
I've never had the patience to do captures myself (I've also owned a Kepmper and very briefly had a Quad Cortex) I just want basic amp types (pushed Fender, Marshall low and high gain, Vox Ac, Dumble/Fuchs/TwoRock, etc.) so I guess I'm using it as a more versatile/complicated Strymon Iridium with captures already done by people with better studios and amps than mine.
For most guitars with "normal", passive, medium output pickups, you should start playing / re-amping the Tonex software or pedal with input trim somewhere between -3 and -4 dB with current software / firmware versions - the pedal MUST be adjusted from its default, which is in the area of +8 dB, if you want a "natural" response and dynamics. If all you want is maximum gain, compression, and no dynamics, the default should work :-) The defaults will also work well with an original Charlie Christian pickup (
Michael nailed it. If you have to do a bunch of different tones, particularly with significantly different instruments in a gig but you want multiple amps then even with the extra work it's hard to beat the ToneX. There are a bunch of options for sure and not all of them are equal, so I think, for me, it comes down to what is, hard as it is to say, good enough.
Ideally I have friends to help me drag my heavy and loud gear around and a place to play that lets it be really loud, but that ideal is getting rare these days.
Been using the tonex one for a couple of months. Experimenting with the gain at different stages helps a lot. For me, once I finally set the output of my audio interface to the right level, my captures started matching the sound of the actual amp extremely well. Yes, it takes patience. It takes numerous captures and experimenting to start getting it right. I prefer to capture with slightly more gain as opposed to less gain and roll back the preset gain slightly on the pedal if needed. The platform is not perfect but I've yet to have issues where I needed to reinstall the app. Sometimes killing the app and resetting/unplugging my audio interface is needed, but that's the same for a number of guitar/audio apps I've used in the past. For $180 and using hardware I already own (audio interface, attenuator), I've made captures of my gear that sound great and are very close to the real thing.
I’m tube amp guy, I’ve grown up playing them and it’s what my ear is accustomed to hearing. My Bad Cat Black Cat 30r amp my Divided by 13 ccc 9/15 together are tonal bliss for me.
I do regularly play on and own a Kemper toaster and bought a ToneX One.
They’re all great tools and using the right tool for the right job is important to me as a player. I play in worship environments almost exclusively so running a quiet stage is crucial. At the end of the day a tube amp running into a load box, mine are Rivera Mini Rock Crushers, is the best solution I found. Do I use and own digital solutions, absolutely, but they’re not my go to solution when 99% of the time there’s no rehearsal and limited sound check. It’s plug in and play and nail it the first time. Amps will most likely always be where I reach.
Thanks for proving to me my tele through almost any tube amp and a half dozen pedals is all I’ll ever need.
This is only an issue if you have the mentality of having to get exact captures of your own amps. I simply just go on tonenet once every couple weeks, audition rigs, favorite the ones I like, and within a few months have the best of the best at my finger tips. It takes a little effort given that probably 80% of the captures are not good, however, once you find those diamonds in the rough, it's set and forget time- you now have access to tones that would cost tens of thousands of dollars to buy, for a few hundred.
ToneX sounds great, however tonenet and the tonex software are undoubtedly the worst UI I have ever experienced. 'Most popular by week' as the only popularity filtering feature is simply insane given how tiny those numbers are. Maybe once Tonenet gets 100x more users that'll be a viable filter
Still getting the hang of dialing in the tones. Find that some far better than others. Running Tonex within Loopy and have been using the volume within Tonex and saving presets to normalize volumes.
@@toolittle7204I agree. Tonex UI is lame.
Loudness, volume and gain are really complicated. One of the key challenges is that volume and loudness are different, so sometimes volume peak meters are tell you something totally different than a LUFS meter, because sometimes the louder amp has less volume. Impedance also introduces some complications. This is super fiddly if you can't script / automate it but I find measuring multiple points on input vs output level is handy, so you can see they both start to compress at the same point.
Everything Michael said, I can confirm. I love my Silver Jubes and my SL 59 HW and so I never wanted to go fully digital/modeling. The QC and kemper never felt as good to me as the Tonex, especially because they didn't take pedals well( I use a Klon and a SD 1 for boosting). A couple points: find good captures (Michael Nielsen or Amalgam come to mind) and don't play with eq's or gain settings. Don't forget that the right IR ist crucial. My input trim is at 4db with HB.
Thanks for bringing up amalgam, but i would STRONGLY encourage everyone to use the ToneX EQ for tweaking - it does not mess up the core texture and qualities of the sound, except when you go to extremes. But reducing bass or treble or adding a bit gain or sometimes reducing it a bit works REALLY well on captures that are made well.
I have this TONEX and its amazing actually. But, I use it with my amp through the effects return and with pedals. The only thing is in the signal chain I do all my OD's before the tonex and after the tonex, I stick in a boost, EQ, Radar Cab pedal and Mooer Preamp Gold 12 on the blue channel to really give the tonex something you will not be disappointed doing. It really brings the tonex to life and it can also act as an attenuator to bring the volumes down while at home. Then that runs into the delays and reverb them to the effects return on my Marshall amp.
I have not gotten to capture any amps yet, I don't have all that gear to do so yet. But man I am really happy with Tonex.
I want to get one, but curious where this should go in the signal chain. I'm also using pedals in the effects loop (Reverb, Strymon Mobius). Any suggestions?
@@MerrickGuitar Ok bro. Pretend the TONEX is you amp. Ill keep it short to give you an idea of what you can do. From your guitar, go into you overdrive, distortion pedals, to the input of the TONEX. Then out of the tonex, into EQ Pedal, Delay, Reverb, and then out of your last pedal, into the effects loop return of your amp. NOT THE FRONT of your amplifier. No chords will run to the front of your amplifier because the return bypasses that. Just make sure you have a speaker cabinet hooked up normal to not damage your amp. That's pretty much it.
I think the percentage of people buying the TONEX to capture their own amps is extremely low. I have a TONEX and haven’t even entertained the idea of capturing any of my sub $1500 amps, it’s just not why most people are buying these 😂.
Came here to say this. I buy high quality captures and couldn’t be happier. 😊
I guess I am the odd one then. The only reason I switched was to model my real amps. 😂
@@gregsteffey1266 - I mean I’m sure there are plenty. I’m thinking the mass appeal with the Tonex one is primarily not going to be that market though. Even then, how many amps are you modeling? Minor headache at the beginning but unless you have some massive studio you are trying to catalog then it’s not that big of a deal.
@@fndrr42 I agree with you. I will probably only ever do a few of my own and maybe a couple of friends amps.
For me it’s worth the time and money to even just model one amp if it sounds, feels and reacts to my pedals the same as my 66 Princeton. I have yet to find a capture that sounds anything like my amp.
The point was that even others capturing amps leaves a lot to be desired so what type of 'interpretation' of the amp you're trying to use are you really getting? Then there's the endless parade of different captures, whose is best? Personally, I just need a Twin Reverb and AC30 but who supposedly/arguably/subjectively makes the best capture? You probably would have to go through all of them and pick the one you like best. That alone can take an awful long time; time that could've been better spent playing.
Record your guitar straight into your DAW so it's a DI clean signal, then drag the tonex over to change the sound, then adjust the input gain but ALSO your DAW mixer input level which will give you more scope on levels... You can drop your DAW input level and then boost the channel volume or the master volume on the amp in tonex to compensate... Obviously if you're recording into the tonex then into your DAW then you can use your pre amp and use that to adjust the input gain
Even a cheaper Tube amp sounds better than most digital. The tubes just sound richer, more dynamic, sounds don't cut off quickly like digital does, not perfect, warmth, etc.... just digital, as good as they have come, some how sound flat or thin. Too perfect and the sound is not there. Like no soul in it. I can definitely see the convenience of it, gets you there 80 percent, but that 20 percent missing is where the magic is. I remember a jam session, where I literally spent the whole session twiddling with the sounds on the Multi-FX unit and never finding any settings I was very happy with, instead of just playing. Lol it was a bit frustrating. I knew how to use it. Lol a good amp just seems more special to me, even if not perfect. I like the noise and feedback and all.
I saw Crowder last Summer in Duluth, MN, and the electric guitar tones were incredible!
Michael must have dialed them in perfectly!
I’ve played guitar since 1970, and always use a tube amp and pedalboard. Played churches for 35 years.
This Tone X and other digital modelers are just too complicated for me at my 66 years. In the 90’s I used a 12 space rack system, which was pretty complicated.
i'm sticking with a good amp, a cable and a guitar. I find myself more times than not, going down a rabbit hole searching for the ultimate tone with these gadgets. Rhett does a great job deep diving into this pedal.
Thank you for another honest review. I'm sticking with my tube amps for most stuff and a Kemper (which isn't perfect) when I need to do a quick thing.
Rhett great video! I have a great deal of respect for Michael, his talent and knowledge in the guitar world. I eased into the ToneX world integrating the ToneX One into my Stomp rig. Rhett I think you nailed my frustration experience too when you said the capture levels were all over the map. I tried dozens and dozens of captures before finding two that would give me usable. BTW, the amp captures I ended up with were non IK factory captures. Having said that, the capture models I ended up with are excellent.
Thanks Rhett, this is a really great video. I always wondered about the process and what kind of rabbit hole I'd get into with Tonex. You just confirmed my suspicions and validates why I started to go the digital/modelling route and why I stopped. Way too much trial and error. I have a pedalboard with a UAFX Dream 65 that, in my opinion, sounds killer. I can quickly EQ and dial in tones when necessary, without any headaches and frustrations; no worrying about input gain, global EQ settings, etc, etc.
I do agree with this. I got one of the best sounds I've had out of the Tonex. Been using my Helix for 8 years, recently switched to pedals again, and Tonex as my sound source. But it took me a LONG time to find it, DEFINITELY don't bother with the stock presets 😂 And I've not captures amps myself, because I don't have any at the moment. But I've heard the process is really frustrating compared to other things.
just started using Amplitube 5 SW for my DAW and am shocked how good it is. Larry Carlton to SRV to VH with amazing dynamics. Stunned how good my setup sounds.
I bought a fender gtx 50 modeler and hands down is one of the best intelligent decisions since my interests in guitar sparked back up. I didn't know what goes in the chain or what order and certainty didn't have a endless supply of money to diddy around for 20 years buying pedals. I did my homework prior to purchase and I'm very happy with it. Also they sound great and have pretty much endless settings and can download programmed tone settings from great guitar players, in fact tim pierce has some excellent tones just so us lucky guys can install the setting in our modeling amps. My fender has a 12 celestion 70/80 speaker and is more than capable of ripping off my lipps.
I feel like all modelers can work if you take the time to tweak it enough. For me, I bought the helix plugin and it took me a while to be happy with it, then I purchased the LT. Now I am 100% happy with it using mostly IR’s, I can get any sound I want.
1 good cable, 1 good amp, and 1 good guitar and your volume knob to control the gain sounds best sometimes.
So you don’t have a tuner?
Man, the comparison between your capture and presets was extremely helpful. Even though I don’t have the pedal (and don’t plan to buy one), just the understanding of the _possibilities_ and applying them to my own equipment was illuminating. Thanks!
Personal dealbreaker: No effects loop. Mono effects loop would be fine, a stereo loop would make this a must buy.
But the total lack of any effects loop so I can put reverbs and delay between the pre and power amp just makes it not worth it.
I have a Tonex One and it took me over a month but after wrapping my head around the Input Trim, I figured it out. I've played it live twice and I'm loving the results. I use a GFI Enieqma to dial it in a bit more as well.
Great video. I echo some of the other comments in that I think most of the people buying Tonex (like me) are doing this and using other people’s captures instead of buying amps. I only play direct in my situation and wanted a stereo setup with lots of options…I don’t even own an amp. Running a dual Matchless rig like I am would costs thousands, but now I have it for less than $600 (running a Tonex and Tonex One), and I can change it whenever I want. I think most Tonex owners are using it this way with their traditional pedals, and for folks like us, this tool is perfect. If we want to get to your level of control, we know we’ll need to drop a ton of cash on our own gear and maybe then we’ll reconsider. But for now, this was the perfect solution and I love it.
Bought the QC earlier this year. I love the amp models and IR's already on the board. I haven't used the capture technology because I don't own many amplifiers. I love that I can use the QC as a digital interface into my DAW. I love that I can take it to any venue and dial in any sound I need for that type of gig. I love that it is small and compact. I don't see myself going back to amplifiers anytime soon. It is too much of an investment to buy a tube amp and a pedal board.
I still gig with Fender amps, but the Tonex is the first recording alternative of the many, many I have tried that consistently puts a smile on my face during playback. Tech these days is nucking futs.
I have the Tonex pedal and I love that thing. I did't at first but after getting used to it and figuring out the best setup. I love it
The problems you're describing lineup exactly with a friend of mine's experience. He noticed the difference between the sounds in the plug-in versus the sounds in the pedal. He would set up sounds he wanted in the plug-in, and then transfer them to the pedal, only to discover that they sounded vastly different.
As a Tonex owner, I can understand and sympathize with the learning curve--and there are aspects that IK could simplify. Also, I am not a fan of the stock presets. However, so much of the frustration in this video is just understanding the pedal's gain stages (Jason Sadites has good stuff on this). I've made dozens of captures and have purchased amazing captures from sites like Amalgam Audio and Jason--and I dump them on the pedal with no issues. A/B tests are hard to hear any difference. I've run direct captures into the power amp of my Mark V into a 2x12 cab, and it sounds glorious. Spend some more time with it.
As with everything, there is lot of experimentation needed. I consider ToneX an incredible tool. The UI could be simplified, but in the end all the capturing devices work the same, some are quite a bit more complicated than ToneX. I think ToneX hits the most sweet spots. Essential to get the tones right is to get the levels and gain staging right in all places. First of all you need to have the reamped signal to be same level as your guitars signal directly to the amp.
Rhett: transferring a preset to the computer is such a PAIN , sitting in front of the computer…what an issue
Also Rhett: dialing a lot of rack units, heavy valve amps, tons of cabels… so easy
There is many variables to consider, set the the input to -3 to -4.0 db and leave it alone on the Tonex, Then set the gain on the amp to your likeing depending on the pups you are useing, plus most important of all your sound source.Example: Studio montors/Headphones/ amp cabs/ Direct line to PA are all 4 going to sound completely different, Advice is to Perfect one amp at a time and put a Boss GE7 in front and adjust accordingly to your sound. It would be nice to plug and play and sound exactly like the original capture that you heard from the designer of the capture, It's like thinking you are going to buy a signature guitar or Amp and you are going to sound like the artist. Good luck with that, It's all in your hands on the guitar and the ability to learn how to use the modelers right. Once you get there it is an awesome time to be a guitar player in the modeler world. Rock on and be patient while haveing FUN!!!
I switched from a helix to dual tone x’s and I couldn’t be happier. I haven’t tried to capture an amp. Instead I have purchased a some captures and they are sounding incredible to me
Enjoyed the video, thanks Rhett. I've had the chance to talk to Michael and he's an awesome guy! His ToneX captures sound excellent too...
I used to run a guitar store back in the day.. I found this video more instructive than most other sources. I value your opinion, especially when you label a statement as an opinion. Plus having Michael counterpoint and identify his opinions gives this a chance at objectivity. Suggestion for another video: talk through how your switching works I.e. how programs are loaded and how you physically move from one to another. Personally I would want to know what amp you’re playing through with modeling. Is it set up flat? How do other touring players get where they are going on stage.
Oh my gosh, thank you. My buddy and I have spent months on and off trying to capture our amps into the Tonex and I feel like I’m losing my mind. The captures always basically sound good but never anything like the real amp, no matter how I set the various gain stages. This video is the only one to accurately reflect how I feel about this thing.
This is me. Toured with a group and had a Pod XT Live and TC Electronics G System. Basically ran in ears for years and stopped about 8 or 9 years ago when I started using tube amps again. Plus, I had bought a Fractal and was overwhelmed by the stupid editing of it. I never even used it live! Just bought a NuX Amp Academy (last year (which I actually love once the time to set it up is put in), a Line 6 HX Stomp, and the Tone One. I'm in ears with another group so I need that option (again). I figured the best one will rise to the top and win out. Thank God for TH-cam having resources for getting back into this world.
A Tonex pedal and a set of Amalgam Captures and im in heaven .
Came for this, nothing to add ! Got a nice boutique tube amp but no mics to capture it, and I live in a flat so instead I play a 100W Plexi trough Tonex, my neighboors don't know about it but they are happy anyway !
so far, they make the only ones I can use on a gig, but ONLY using third-party IRs.
@@ProGoTones absolutely !
Thanks man, glad our stuff works for you!
So, I’ve experienced what you went through with gain but I believe you inadvertently covered the issue at the beginning of the the capture demo when you pointed out that the gain of the software’s example was hotter than your guitar through the same amp. What I found myself doing is dialing ing my desired tone for the capture with my guitar and then played the software guitar and split the difference with the gain setting. It got me closer the the correct gain setting.
I use Tonex with HX Stomp XL connected via effects channel. I am using clean, crunch and heavy captures for each amp. Channel changes are done with midi per snapshot and all the I/O - EQ problems and gain staging I mainly fix on my HX Stomp XL. Even if I have the amp, I buy the presets because people out there are doing it better than I do for a few bucks. This also helps with the DSP shortage. Not having amps in your preset gives you more space for complex effects.
The biggest advantage of this profiling approach is that I can now capture my 100 Watt JCM 900 Marshall and have it sound like the speakers on my laptop. I never was able to do this in the past .
This was my exact problem with my Tonex. Gain staging is EVERYTHING for me, especially when dialing in my overdrives. In a live situation where I can't use an amp, I just go to my UA Dream or my mini board built around my HX Stomp. I still use my amps for home recording/session stuff, but the "real amp" sound of the Tonex is not enough for me to put it above my UAFX pedals or even my Strymon Iridium.
Wow you did the captures really well. I started shaking my head right away (up and down "YES") to each amp.
First thanks for all these test :). Just wanted to mention that I noticed a kind of difference in harmonics between the QC (at 15:28) and the ToneX pedal (at 15:35) that would make me somehow prefer the QC. Once said, I'm not listening to youtube with a crazy setup :)
I would love to see how NAM compares to this now. Captures I have made sound spot on, and are easy to make. Now there is hardware and VSTs coming out with the software in it, because its open source. I really think this is the future of captures.
I returned my Tonex, I will probably buy one used in the future because the Joe Satriani pack really got me the sound I have been looking for without having to spend lots of money. I have also been looking for a nice Mesa Boogie Mark IV sound but I have been unable to find one I really like, even the paid ones doesn't quite get there. I have never owned a tube amp, I have always used Axe FX, and before that I had solid state amps. I recently got myself a Mesa Boogie Mark IV rev B, and I couldn't be happier. I just use the amp paired with a Torpedo Captor 8 ohm as a load box, and my Axe FX for effects and IR. But if I wanted to I could have just bought Captor X and loaded some IR onto that and then bring a few pedals. When people rave about Tonex saying it's so nice not having to drag truckloads of gear with them I just think, is it that bad? I mean you can just skip the part about bringing a speaker cabinet if you use a load box with IR, there are hundreds of IR out there so you will find one you like, then you just need to drag your amp, loadbox and something for the effects you prefer. It's not that much gear.
I was also not impressed by the noise gate or the reverb on the Tonex. There is also something about the way the Tonex behaves when playing that I don't like. I can't quite put my finger on it, keep in mind this was before I had tested a tube amp so I coulnd't compare it to a previous tube amp experience, only stuff I have heard on youtube.
Funny you make this video now, I just picked up a ToneX pedal about a week ago! I'm in the strangely fortunate situation of having been gifted an incredible tube amp a few years ago (Fargen 50w Olde 800mk2) that made any thoughts of buying a cheaper, more bedroom appropriate tube amp seem ridiculous especially when I'm an amateur player -- I really just felt lucky to have an amp that I would've killed to have years prior. I never bought a Kemper or Helix because I couldn't justify the price as an amateur, but the ToneX hits such a sweet spot. I've been absolutely loving playing with tons of different tones I never had access to before! The software is definitely annoying and has its quirks, sometimes I can't download a tone model and I have to mess around in the home tab until I can get it to come back up in Tonenet. I think that for the price it's an amazing piece of tech, but I also believe you get what you pay for with the higher end amp sims.
Lemme yell ya that while i did the small size and price of the new little tone X, I’m still team UAFX all the way.
This capture concept has the same issue IR’s have: there’s just too many, and it’s unclear if you’ve really found something that sounds truly good by the time you settle for one.
If any of you have mixed your own records, you know what can happen when you’re twisting knobs for hours; you keep tweaking and tweaking and it sounds “great”. The next day you open up your mix and it sounds like it was recorded in a tin can.
There’s a whole art to mixing. In the same way, there’s a whole art to picking IR’s, captures etc. And most of us aren’t that good at it. It’s a skill.
There’s just too many to muck around with.
UAFX on the other hand: it just sounds good. You get 6 flavors of cab and a couple of amp mods from best in class golden units - it’s just the best tones, preselected for you and they’re going to be perfect. No wondering if you’re picking a cab w a weird resonance, or if you just like this capture because it’s louder etc.
Leave the sifting through thousands of sounds to someone else.
I love my ToneX. Great sounds, affordable, flexible and so portable when compared with my Brunetti and PRS amps.
Great video Rhett.
The advanced setting, though takes ages to train, brings the captures to the next level and give you exactly more of the stuff that you are missing - more highs, detail, texture. ToneX and nothing else (apart from NAM with some more advanced and therefore extremely resource hungry models) does not get every detail from the Power Amp fizz, which is a part of that brightness that gets lost. In advanced training it does retain some of that though.
ToneX tends to roll of the highs a bit, QC tends to have brighter and MORE dynamic results than the reference. In ToneX you can adjust the gain manually when comparing reference to capture - it is called trim control.
The reamp device you use is crucial and the levels you put into the amp.
I recently got a fractal fm9. Tonewise it’s very impressive, much better than the ToneX sounds for my needs (clean to edge of breakup fender/vox/matchless/dumble etc). It’s of course much more pricey than a ToneX, but it’s actually less than a pedalboard with a switcher and any midi delay/reverb pedals etc.
I have a tonex and love it. Basically the guy that had it before me had a Dumble model loaded.
I run gain pedals through that and into a Duncan power stage. Then into 2 different cabs v30 loaded and cream/greenbacks, and I'm done. Never been happier.
Note, lots of stuff about tonex on the Studio Rats channel. Basically indistinguishable to my ear.
Shouldn't it be connected to frfr speaker? as in like a PA speaker?
I don't see stock tones as a problem at all - never planned to use them and just utilize the classic amps I want. It does pretty much the best amps of any platform, and let's me use the existing pedalboard, etc., like Michael mentioned.
Part of the complexity of your personal captures have to do with the routing down to the basement studio, but capturing is probably always gonna be a bit of a hassle, regardless of platform. Thanks for the video!
The trim input is the same as that on a PA. It is needed because the signal strength coming from the input device will be different from each instrument. It is used to get the best digital representation of that signal. It has to do with using the best area of the FS of the AD converter. Therefore since the signal for each guitar is different you would need to adjust this for each guitar. Having said that, it is impractical to do this in a live situation, so you have to choose a 1 size fits all. Once you have captured a good digital representation then that is the virtual guitar sound that is sent to the virtual amp. You then use the gain control for adjusting the strength of the signal going into the virtual amp. If either the trim or gain is set to high you will get saturation. Ideally you want to do this from the gain and not the trim.
I've owned several of these types of things and once I got the Kemper Stage, it was the complete package. I don't need anything else. 2 years later, the ToneX came out, and I thought that was a solution, but as you indicated, it was a pain. I returned it. I also got the Kemper pedal. No thank you. The versatility just is not there yet, so I am still using my trusty stage direct to the sound board as a live solution.
The Tonex software can be absolutely amazing. The attempt to create hardware for it has brought its own set of unique challenges.
I am more than capable and have no complaints about those challenges because the end result is better than anything Ive used.
But I come from a time when we had to burn a chip and open the lid on a Linn drum to change 1 drum sound. You might consider how easy you have it and try to do these reviews without all the complaining.
While I have not had any experience with Tone-X, I have personally NOT had a good experience over the years with anything Amplitube. Therefore, this does not surprise me. Honestly, I feel like Amplitube's MO is, and always has been, to do things on the cheap, and then market everything they do as if it's awesome. The truth is, it's just not! Thanks Rhett, for another great video with honest and fair insight to the facts.
It's a computer, so you have to do a little programming. Michael did a great job of trying to help. It hasn't been that hard to use for me, and it works so well live and of course at home.
Very cool to see a crossover video. I follow both of you guys and never put two-and-two together that you are both in the same areas. Michael’s Tonex videos are very informative and his course on getting great recorded tones is really good too
I was disappointed the Tonex didn't have many effects when I bought it, but loved the sounds and tweaks I used. The capture process looked too complicated for me but the idea of taking an amp sound and adding your own effects to it was intriguing but I passed! I am enjoying it as is on my small pedalboard but don't get to play it much. Good video!
I spent a really long time to figure this out. I ended up setting input gain on my ToneX to 0db. And I spent a long time setting the level out of my reamp box. Now I can make a capture and move it to my ToneX without any difference. I can use A/B box between the ToneX and the amp and hear no difference. Reason your getting more gain on the ToneX is that your sending too hot signal out when capturing. The input of the guitar into the recording interface has nothing to do with it. I’ve calibrated my capture process to be correct with the input gain of the ToneX set to 0db. Once you have done that it will be correct all the time.
That's what I thought as well... About to capture my amps and I guess the first one will be trial and error. Once everything is set correctly it should be easy to capture all of them...
I'm using the NUX MG30. A wee bit cheaper (I have a tight budget) but sounds fantastic for what I do. There's no capture but with the addition of Pro scenes and plenty of great IRs that can be added, its great.
Rhett, you are kind of wrong about Kemper... The tone stack is modelled these days with Liquid Profiling (for a wide variety of amps).
Ya, I’ll add in here to help the algorithm: I’m a new tonex user who made the jump over with the One. Yes to issues with gain staging. Agree with many in here that capturing your own amps is such a small minority; I haven’t captured any of mine.
I’m up to 400+ amp captures in my library across grips of genres with good amount free and a good amount paid. I love them all for what they are. But like Michael said, trust your ears in this process. Knowing what tone you’re looking for before you start really helps.
But all said and done for $180 with the One, I’m not looking for the most plug and play solution. I’m fine with taking the time to figure it out and hearing what works for me.
Hi Rhett,
Well it is this kind of complexity which ultimately has me giving up on these devices for live use. I agree that for recording, they are indistinguishable. My full fat Helix will soon be on Reverb, and I am very happy with my new live rig, A Blackstar Amped 3 100 watt floor amp. It is apparently a modeller, but all I can say is that out of the box, first rehearsal, it was killing it with my seven piece band. No setting up live and home patches, no setting up patches at gig volume to overcome Fletcher Munson curve. It just works like an amp. It is very simple to use but gives me enough voice and switching options for all I need on stage. The online editor also works fast and easy and has a few useful options, and not thousands I will never need. For effects I use my beloved HX effects pedal. No need for anything else. (Except my cab and Mission Expression pedal) The older real amps I used needed mixing, the Amped 3 has XLR out. I also want to share with your viewers the joys of Neo speakers. I have now achieved a 12 inch birch ply cab with Celestion Neo V30 that I am concerned could blow away at an outdoor gig…beautiful. 😊
Hi Rhett ! Maybe this affirms the difficulty that you're experiencing with gain/trim input but may help with future profiles creation. Jason Sadites channel in 2023 ("Fine Tune Your Tonex Pedal To PERFECTION!! | Set Your Input Trim PROPERLY!") deals with this issue and provides "tools" to make corrections to match 0db into your interface vs. the Tonex Pedal. Note: There was a firmware update that corrected a hotter default input trim setting.
I split my playing between a tube amp out loud and a digital profiler into headphones for night time practice and have used a quad cortex for some time but recently switched to the tonex one. Two reasons for this:
1) I like using different pedals and the QC did not take certain drives well compared to my tube amp. Some work well but others less so and they definitely do not stack that well. I was in settings hell as i would tweak pedals to sound good on the QC then need to readjust for the amp and vice versa over and over. once i switched to the tonex, the pedals sound equally good on the amp and tonex and i can easily toggle the tonex on and off on my pedal board. It took some tweaking and trying various amalgam captures to find one that worked but once i got it sorted i feel no need to tweak my tonex.
2) f you wanted to go completely digital, the QC is awesome as it can do everything inside the box from amps, cabs, FX etc. For flying gigs, you just bring it and go direct to front of house or a FRFR speaking and you are set. However, if you want to use a combo of analog pedals and just use an amp capture, the tonex one is perfect as you throw it on the end of your pedalboard and it takes very little space and is less than $200.
neither of them sound as good as a tube amp, but for playing into headphones at night the tonex into my Axe I/O box is awesome. The UX of the software is awful but once you get the amp set right you are good to go.
Very good video, can't go wrong with Rhett and Michael together. And I like that Orange amp capture. I've got Amplitube 5 MAX and the ToneX software. To this point I am playing IK's captures, the freebies.
I do have a couple of amps and in time I might attempt captures of those. No matter what, if you set up capture process, you should take several captures of that amp since it seems that the setup is the worst part.
As an aside, the gear is ToneX, one word.
I’ve been running an Atomic AmpliFire12 😮 (oh my!) for years now and have had to suss out similar issues. One thing that took me a while to recognize in their software was how each pedals gain/output relationship stacks up. Kind of like stacking pedals in general. Every model I run (clean, dirty, Fender, SLO, Cornford etc) has individual component level tweaking prerequisites. I’d get everything dialed at the amp and system output levels and then have to go back, add in the other blocks and test em out. Wash, rinse, repeat until it finally all came into alignment… kind of a pain but in the end pretty consistent. After listening and observing your comprehensive work here, I can’t help but think that good, high quality dialed in captures/models and a couple of those little Tonex pedals on my board and I’m good to go!
I’m a drummer who also plays guitar and records in a home studio. I have nice amps. The ToneX gives me one more tool to find a tone I’m looking for. I like the stock amps. Also handy to woodshed an idea at 11pm and not wake my family. The price point made it a great option for me.
Thanks guys for the video! 100 percent awesome! I bought the Tonex when it came out. Hardly use the pedal. Use the software all the time. Awesome stuff!!! I've owned Kemper, Helix, Axe III, all good to great, but love Tonex the most! Yeah, Rhett use other people's profiles, don't do it yourself... Amalgam kills on the type of amps you like.
I can imagine that the shared sonic difference of the Tone X and the Quad Cortex compared to the real amp is due to impedances. If you‘re sending line impedance (60k-66k ohms) instead of instrument impedance (1.5M-2.3M ohms) the modlers will probably behave differently than the amp. I’m however no pro in this matter, i could be completely wrong haha!
My experience with TONEX has been totally positive. Fantastic results at a 1/4 of the cost of some digital amp modelers.
Seen Crowder live for my birthday last year, and I must say it was one of the best sounding concerts I've ever seen across any genre. The guitars sounded amazing overall.
@Rhett Shull - FYI, Most of the links to your courses did not work for me. The only one that worked was the one to the Fretboard Fundamentals course. The rest of them took me to a page that said "Sorry, we couldn't find that page". I was able to navigate to the courses via the All Courses page.
Thanks for letting me know! I’ll get that fixed
My pleasure@@RhettShull. Happy to be of service.
The gain of the capture is related to the output of the amp out on the Tone X capture box. Because the impedance of this output is not reacting like a guitar pickup, it will affect the way the amp react also. Mostly by sounding more compressed. The trick that I have found is to output the "amp out" through a transformer with impedance matching my guitar pickup. So far, the Morley Hum Eliminator is giving me something close to that.
Great video! This is a massive issue with Tonex. I have stopped buying captures as nearly all sounded terrible, likely due to the difference in gain structure in my setup vs the rig being captured. I have all of the hardware to make my own captures but am yet to make a one, as it is mind bending and nobody has put a super clear IO description on TH-cam to date. This leaves me trying hundreds of free captures to find ones that sound good. The hit rate is about 1 in 50! Still, when they sound good, they are a match for my amp.
I picked up the Tonex One recently and it's a nice unit. I don't plan to do any captures. With the stock captures, I find that some of the clean amps sound quite good. I haven't heard any distorted amps that sounded good yet. I do think it makes sense to separate the capture process from the unit. It really is a completely different thing than playing and most people won't end up making their own captures.
the pedal is closer than the Qc and the plugin.
It is amazing value. I have used one from day one. Captured my vintage amps and also use some Amalgam and Tone junkie. Also the Studio Rats Matchless.
I run the first 4 banks as my pre amp into a combi and the next 4 banks have IR's on to go direct. Very simple gigging solution. I have not changed the amps on it since the initial set up. Software is not great so i steer clear of it