To add some further insult to the no Open-World on PS 2 injury: About 6 Months before Proving Grounds released, the PS 2 and PSP Ports of Test Drive Unlimited where released, a Open World Racing game that uses the entire Island of Oʻahu, Hawaii as it´s Map. And by entire Island I´m not talking about just the road network, but really the entire Island. And it allowed you to teleport to any road you already discovered without the need of a long loading time. So yeah, there really is no excuse what so ever for them not implementing the whole Open World Map.
Underrated game. Obviously at the time it came out most of us were completely hooked on Skate, but Proving Ground got a lot more hate than it deserved I feel like
Most underrated Tony Hawk game . This was my third entry to the series as a kid and it truly felt like Underground 3 just built off of the project 8 engine. Is it perfect? No, but it was the direction the series should’ve kept going in.
I love how you said proving ground feels like it could be underground 3, I always got that impression by the name itself, proving ground. Idk lol but cool to know I’m not alone
I feel like this game takes many of the best aspects of previous games and improves upon them in a big way. It's hugely underrated in the series and this video really has me wanting to replay it
Totally agree with your 10/10. The game world and weather is so true to the east coast. It’s the best controlling. Most fluid TH game. The only reason I hook my PS3 still! And it came out at one of the best times of my life. So extra points there.
Brooo massive respect to the effort and hard work you put into these vids! It’s so refreshing getting your opinions on these games cuz of how unique they are. Like you said: “everyone has their own taste”. I was an immature teenager when this came out, and I never paid any attention to the story or the finer details. I just went off my overall first impressions which were that the game looked gloomy and lacked the crazy variety of different levels. I pawned the game after beating it, and moved on. Now I’m gonna hunt it down and appreciate it with a new perspective on the overall feel that the game was going for. You’re breathing new life into this dead franchise for me, and that’s friggin amazing. Keep doin the dang thang G🙌💯
after watching the PS3 part of the video I was like “I remember this game being terrible wtf” and then realizing I had played the Wii port. Had no idea there were way better ports
I sung this games praise my whole life it was a big part in teaching me so much about skateboarding culture and the music helped me find some of my favourite bands
Been watching these videos fairly regularly since your channel has been recommended to me quite a bit. These videos are great and you have earned yourself a subscriber. I am also glad to see a review of Tony Hawk’s Proving Ground that properly shows why this game is genuinely great.
Another fantastic video lad! I had a similar experience to you, I only played this game like 4 years ago just on a whim and honestly I wasn't a fan haha. I got the PS3 version which runs not too bad but I hadn't played next gen port of P8 and was baffled by the physics and tuning. For some reason even though I didn't enjoy it, I kept coming back and playing, just free-skating around. Eventually it all clicked and it's in my top 3 THPS games. It honestly reminds me the most of the first game on PS1, not because of the phsyics or how it's programmed or anything like that. But the believable feeling of landing into transition, more difficult balance metres, or clearing a gap just FEELS so much more immersive and grounded. Which might sound odd when talking about this franchise since THPS is considered arcadey now, but it WAS the most realistic skate game until Skate 1 came out, even then it wasn't until Skate 3 came out in 2010 those games stopped being niche. This game has a lot of interesting mechanics that I never see brought up, like how you can manual wallpush off of walls, poles, cars and even peds lol. I think what made me "get" the semi-realistic gravity in this game was how it's basically impossible to manual up slopes, HOWEVER using the new and improved wallpush you can, and feels like that was it's original intention. I only realised this when trying to manual up between the two stair sets that connect Freedom Plaza and The Mall, which is why they placed little trees in the middle of them so you can wallpush your way up to the top! Another mechanic is the Beanplant you can do before landing by tapping ollie that extends your combo. I think this is a hidden trick and I don't remember if the game ever teaches you it in a goal??? Also it's quite odd they never added the Boned Ollie in Project 8 or Proving Ground when it would suit the realistic feel and allow you to clear waist high obstacles. Oh and skate check mechanic when airbourne is like a Slob Air which is kinda neat to do just as trick. The level design is amazing and almost every level is a banger. The only that's weak is Landsdowne. But I personally love the more down to earth ledges and planters. Also the FDR recreation looks quite faithful. The DS port is pretty great, the skate lounge and customisation like being able to draw your own deck graphic with the stylus makes it stand out. I remember I had the DS port as a child and really loved it. THPS 10 was in development at the tail end of production of this game, and all I know it they remade Tony Hawk's backgarden skatepark as the first level. I do wonder what that game would've been like and how it could have improved and fully shown off how well this engine plays compared to P8. It's a shame Proving Ground never got a native PC port since I think modding could've have fixed performance and adding custom content would gotten more of the community to love this game rather than forget about it. Also shout out to Larxian for porting over the Proving Ground levels into THUGPro, he's a legend! Can't wait for the next video!
That's a big comment :0 I appreciate it. I didn't know there were any plans for a TH10 but I'm hella curious about that now. I've never really thought of Tony Hawk games as "Arcade-y" personally. Arcade skateboarding games were racers, and most other arcade games are quarter muncher high score machines. I think that's why I stuck with "tech-fantasy" as a descriptor. Just feels right.
Seems like I need to go back to this game. I loved the series up until Project 8. That game kind of threw me off, I didn't play it as much and then Proving Ground came around and in my memory I played it for 20 minutes and then never played it again, because I was still so disappointed about Project 8. Kind of weird now in retrospect, but well.. I think what generally threw me off was the "greyness" of the visuals which you mentioned in the video and the change in the physics from the PS2 games which I loved. In this review it sounds like the modern day Tony Hawk I always wanted, so I may need to revisit the game.
I remember a few years ago, going through a crappy breakup and had to sell my 360 to pay rent. My mate lent me his PS2 and i bought whatever games my local pawnshop had for the system and Proving Ground happened to be one of them. I went in with 0 expectations, but was pleasantly surprised by the game. It wasn't the best for sure, but it entertained me enough through a difficult time and i also genuinely love the soundtrack, even if some of the song choices are ...strange (one track seems to be from a band that literally has no other songs, and pretty much zero presence online) Maybe I enjoyed it more because i expected nothing, but it sits among my top 5 THPS games for sure
All of my Tony Hawk memories are from the PS2 versions. I will have to try and run it. Project 8 crashed rpcs3 often. I wasn't really a critic before I knew what the internet was
Early warning* With RPCS3, if you load into the bridge and the graphics are broken, just pause and teleport to the skate lounge in the "my skater" menu. It fixes that.
I need to try this game. I never did, I was one of the people who found Project 8 so jarring that I didn’t even pick this up, but I might now. I didn’t comment on your Project 8 video, I watched it, but I felt like you covered anything I could say. I played on PlayStation 2 which is why I hated it, if I’d played the PS3 or 360 version I would have a different opinion I’m sure. I never had a PS3 but still have my 360 lying around, I’ll be keeping an eye out for a copy of this and Project 8 as well.
Idk why but for me personally, if they had made the whole game in the ps2 graphics/physics with the same attention and quality of the 360/ps3 version it would have been perfect. I just couldn’t get immersed or have as much fun with the next gen physics
I feel like i should revisit this game. My memory of it was blank but even though i played project 8 a lot(but not as much as thps2 and underground)this video gives me a different outlook on proving ground
This is the only mainline tony hawk game I haven't beat. I hadn't beaten Project 8 (despite having it on release) until last year when I bought a used ps2 copy and I ended up liking it. I had this on ps3.. will probably emulate it and give it another go after I'm done with the games I'm currently playing through. Great video.
Out of the main tony hawk games I never played thaw, project 8, proving grounds, HD or thps 5. Watching this review is making me want to get an Xbox just so I can experience this game. It honestly looks like an underrated gem and from what I see it has good gameplay with a good story. I’ve been craving for that since underground. I can’t wait to try this one
I always thought that "slam" thing you keep talking about was just the animation of the skater stretching to land more softly (crouching when. After I saw these games on new-gen, I started thinking the skaters on previous games didn't land smoothly at all. And this game sorta has it too, I think it just might look more like an animation this time when using the classic camera.
Falling from a higher distance in Project 8 makes it a lot heavier. Makes the whole camera shake, and leaves an impact particle effect under you for a second. Pro Skater 5 just literally lets you slam down to the ground, and it looks similar but it's done with a button input instead. This game kept the animation, but got rid of the slam properties. You actually use it to break through some ground pieces in those games.
holy shit, someone who sings proving ground's praises, this was always my favorite tony hawk game, it feels so fun to play and there's tons to do, both in terms of mechanics and size of the map. this game gets slept on and overhated so much and it makes me sad this game's soundtrack is easily my favorite in the series too, it has Natural One on it which automatically makes it one of the best
This game got so much more hate than it deserved when it came out it was always one of my favorites especially after coming from project 8 and being disappointed with it this was one of the biggest breaths of fresh air as a fan because it was new but has the same formula we know and love but on newer hardware sucks not everyone felt the same way
Proving grounds was my first Tony Hawk game I remember my dad bought it for me one Christmas, some people know Tony Hawk games in the arcade and classic way, I know Tony Hawk because of the story mode and thanks to it it made me skate even the east coast skate scene now is very interesting (not hating on cali etc it’s just too clean for me ). Made fell in love with Tony Hawk I’ve played them all expect Pro for skater 5
This game had a good mix of easy and accessible lines whilst also allowing you, upon learning the map, to find and slowly master some much more difficult yet rewarding lines. It felt somewhat more grounded in reality than some of the other games but the fun was in the exploration and it had fair replayablity , the carve mechanic, whilst not really needed did help in creating more "real" looking bowl skating i thought. 7 / 10 imo
I'm kind of weird in that, as someone who had a more positive experience with American Wasteland, I just never got around to picking up Project 8 while it was new so I ended up skipping that entry in the franchise. When Proving Grounds came around I made sure to go pick it up because I figured this would be where all of the new mechanics introduced in the past 2 games would've been at least close to perfected. Proving Grounds is definitely the game I go back to surprisingly often. It's for sure one of if not the most under appreciated game in the franchise however I don't know that I could give it a 10/10. Easily an 8/10 but there are a few things PG is lacking in. I really wish there was more of a "Classic Mode" with updated versions of levels from previous games along with ideally one or two levels exclusive to PG. My only other real gripe with the game is the "Skate Lounge". It just felt like a totally neutered version of Create-A-Park from games as old as THPS2. I do agree that the main story mode is fantastic and the open world although kind of grey and drab is super fun to skate around in. It just bummed me out that the great story mode was all the game had. I would have really loved to play some older levels in the PG engine.
I've been thinking about the classic maps and skate lounge part of this comment. Honestly, I probably wasn't even bothered by it because of the rigger stuff. Being able to build anywhere in the city keeps things really fresh. That said, a New Jersey remake or something would have been perfect.
@@RedBerylFTWIf you join the EA Insider program you can join playtests for the new Skate game. I can't say anything about what it's like from experience due to NDA but I can say it's been fascinating seeing the updates to the game builds over time.
I had this on the ps3 I remember it being fun as hell but it disappeared not to long after I got it. Didn't get to really get into the career but the skating was fun for sure
do you play these games on original hardware or do you emulate them? I feel like I've heard you mention it before but I forgot or don't know if you do a mix.
I played the PS2 port when I was younger and it soured me on this game. I have the PS3 port now and I need to play more of it. Also these combos are nutty
the only sins this game really had were the wack grind/manual meter displays and an undersaturated color palette. the maps ported into THUGPro were pretty overwhelming, it really needed some color to give it justice.
After watching this video, i decided to give this game another try. I have played every single game before it and ive played thugpro pretty much everyday for a long time now. I finally got it to work after some research on my emulator. Its great. It’s actually fantastic. Im sort’ve mad at myself for trashing it based on only reviews and not opinions of my own. Thanks for sharing your mind on this and introducing me to a new game in a series i thought i saw it all from. I even tried project 8 and i also love it lol.
Hey just stopping by to let people know there's a mod for Proving Ground that makes it run at a stable 60fps called Tony Hawk Proving Ground+. It has tons of quality of life improvements and works on emulator and consoles aswell. 100% recommend it's how the game was meant to be played.
@@HuladeHoopla You can find it here: thpgplus.weebly.com/ And a showcase video from one of the modding team here: th-cam.com/video/CmYSm-XPBGk/w-d-xo.html
Bro... WHAT?! I like this game a lot and agree it's underrated, but 10/10??!!! There are SO many flaws and imperfections in this game that hold it back. I played the shit out of it. So many of the goal mechanics just don't work correctly. Everything is inconsistent and nothing feels responsive. Stuff like the camera goals not registering consistently. Things not registering you tricked or touched them. The timing and collision for checking feels randomized. The camera whipping around in very disorienting ways. Random unfair bails in the middle of big combos. NTT still being terribly overpowered. It's better than P8, but everything is still just SO imprecise and glitchy compared to the previous engine. Even worse, there are SO MANY goals that depend on some unique mechanic that's just super underbaked, like the camera or checking goals I mentioned. I wish it wasn't the case because there's a lot to love in this game, but the core gameplay is just still not solid enough to support the whole rest of the game. ESPECIALLY the sick goals, which are still total BS and obviously untested.
Crazy I didn't have these problems. I never had any responsiveness or collision issues, and I never felt like a sick goal was asking too much because if I couldn't do it normally, I could rig up something or go into nail mode. I also didn't have any photo problems. It always took the picture, and it always knew when I was doing a trick or when I was facing the camera. On the game camera, I did have it whip around in that way once or twice, but I've also had that happen in 1+2 and it doesn't bother me there either. Spinning on a real skateboard is much more disorienting. That's just my personal experience.
@@RedBerylFTW I liked doing the random street challenges around the map and the classic and high score goals most. But the story mode was just a slog. It's been a long time but I remember one climbing goal with Vanessa Torres that just refused to recognize that I landed on a platform and made it impossible to progress. The checking goals that are basically luck in that you just have to hope the guys will line up in a way that it will be possible to hit them all within the time limit or you're F'd and just have to restart. The slash grind tricks not registering correctly for those goals. One goal where you have to wallplant/wallride things in the subway and the collision on the objects was just way too small, and the physics made it super frustrating to stop and turn around in tight spaces when you miss them. It was just incessant, and super obvious that most of these goals and mechanics were held together with duct tape, and everything was borderline untested. Even the good goals, if they had a high score element, get bogged down by the NTT and focus mode slowing the pace of the game down to a crawl (but being all but required for high scores). I had the same problem with SSX On Tour. Slow motion is cool, but if you make it easy and overpowered, it ruins the pace of your game. I played a bunch of the PS2 port as well and agree that it is significantly worse and embarrassingly bad for how good the previous PS2 games were. But the gap between the PS2 and PS3 versions is not nearly as wide in my experience. I had many of the same problems you mentioned in the PS2 section on the PS3 version. I'd put them at about 5/10 and 7/10 respectively.
@@hhgreg2969 Can't say much about the Vanessa goal (if you mean the balcony grind climb, I also didn't have that problem. Caveman from the rail in, works just fine.) Skate Checking also wasn't really a big deal. Once I realized I could check thugs on rails and that there was a small window to press it early, it was pretty easy. With the slow motion of Nail the Trick, the flow was ruined for me initially in Thug 2 when focus was added. I like NT because it lets you get creative in a unique way, as opposed to focus mode which literally just slows the game down to make it easier. Thug 2, THAW, and the PS2 versions of P8 and PG all have that same empty, useless focus mode. It was just nice to see anything done with it. Trying to body spin a method fingerflip into 360 flip to casper in the nail system is a lot more complex than just slow motion for no reason.
@@RedBerylFTW I'm not sure how you never ran into all this issues I did, maybe I'm unlucky or just play differently. I really like NTT in concept, it was really fun to mess around with, but it was just too unbalanced for goals. Being able to do it whenever you want AND giving you more airtime AND making timing easier AND being worth significantly more points than anything else was just too much. Even just limiting how you could use it, like having to build up a meter that's very limited, or only after a certain threshold in a combo, or something, would be a big step in the right direction.
@@hhgreg2969 Now that you mention it, I didn't even realize the special meter was gone. You can perform a special trick after successfully landing pretty much anything, and NTT just whenever. In the DS port, you need special to activate NTT. I was just having fun and didn't notice. Doesn't change much for me, but I get what you mean.
Putting my P.S. upfront as a TLDR: This comment ballooned HARD, but i took significant umbrage with the majority of your coverage of the PS2 version of the game. Feel free to completely ignore, but i'd say it's worthwhile that you read it. I don't disagree the PS2 version is bad, but i disagree with your assessment of Page 44. I played the demo for this on Xbox 360 and owned the PS2 version. Vehemently hated both at the time. My only experience with Proving Ground that's been positive is watching Nightspeeds play it. After hearing your high praise for the 7th gen version, i'm thinking i'll have to give it another chance. Honestly, if i were project lead on a hypothetical THUG 3 or THPS 6, i'd have made some of the same decisions Neversoft did making this. Side note/obnoxious rant: Comparing the lack of an open world in the PS2 port to the open world in Morrowind on Xbox is unfair at best. Bethesda A: had 6 years to make their game as opposed to less than 1, and B: had to implement seamlessly rebooting the Xbox into the loading procedure to make their port work. That's not something i'd expect from Neversoft on a 1 year dev cycle, let alone the folks who got given release candidate builds of the 7th gen version to build their game from. Even then, the cell culling system in Morrowind functions on a game of that size because the Xbox could stream data as needed from the horrifically slow DVD to the much faster hard drive. It's the reason Final Fantasy XI works on PS2, but requires a hard drive. Imagine if Tony Hawk's Proving Ground for PS2 was one of a selection of under 10 games that REQUIRED a hard drive in an era where the PS2 slim was the only model being sold. "Rebuilding" the maps to fit the hardware WAS the cheap option, and likely took significantly less time, and thus money, than you think as the models for the maps already existed and just needed tweaks to close them off. Additionally, the reason NFS and GTA games could get away with open worlds on PS2 is because they're SIGNIFICANTLY less dense, lower poly, and have worse textures than any of the maps in Proving Ground PS2. I already mentioned the example of Final Fantasy XI, but for another example: Yakuza by Sega has about as dense and high fidelity a world as this game does, and even with multiple years of dev time, it didn't have a no-loads/hidden-loads fully open world that detailed on PS2. Yes, the PS2 could be made to run Proving Ground's full map, but given the PS3 had been out for over a year and the Xbox 360 over 2 at that point, and how few PS2s would actually be able to play it due to the requirement of a $100 add on that the systems on sale at the time couldn't use, making it happen for the then-last gen version of the game doesn't make sense. THPG PS2 is very clearly a bad game, but I don't think you're giving Page 44 the credit they're due based on misconceptions of how complicated porting games actually is. You acknowledge they were a studio in over their head on this port, yet still expected them to deliver more than they were VERY CLEARLY capable of. That's incredibly unfair, and being glad dozens of people you don't know lost their jobs is kinda shitty, especially when they were a support studio on a game you praised: Freekstyle.
I'm not doubting that a few passionate people worked at Page44. But Morrowind wasn't the only comparison. Every NFS Game, every GTA game, and like another comment mentioned Test Drive Unlimited which let you drive around the entire island of Hawaii. Page 44 had a pre built engine, pre-built assets, and a fair amount of time to make it all work. Even if it wasn't open world, they could have put the minimal effort into merging a few districts in a way that would have made for better maps. Vicarious Visions built a better game on weaker and more complicated hardware with bigger maps and it's just as faithful. Shaba Games completely redesigned Project 8 for the PS2. Even Robomodo put in the effort to make their own mediocre engine better over time. This was the *second* Tony Hawk game Page44 worked on, and it was so much worse than the first time. I don't feel bad for my criticism, because the employees and leaders probably went on to get better jobs in areas that better suited their capabilities. As one collective studio, their dissolution was a good thing.
@@RedBerylFTW Morrowind wasn't my only comparison either. I addressed your comparisons to NFS, GTA, as well as Final Fantasy XI and Yakuza in my comment. To reiterate, the maps in NFS, GTA, and TDU are significantly lower poly and lower res than what's happening in THPG. Most of the map of Tri-Bay City in NFS Undercover (The PS2 port of which is not great) are non-solid buildings with no collision or collision on only a handful of faces. Most of San Andreas is empty space in the ocean, the countryside, and the desert. Most of TDU's truncated recreation of Hawaii is low poly houses trees on the side of the road. Most of the game world in THPG is ramps, rails, bowls, buildings, cars, curbs, etc the player is meant to interact with up close ON PS3 AND XBOX 360. As such, as much of it as is reasonable needs collision and high res textures. The DVD drive in the PS2 on its own simply can't shift that much data as fast as would be necessary. You'd end up with loading stutter as seen in Yakuza, which would kill the flow of the game Vicarious had been a studio for longer and had largely been doing these types of ports for the majority of their existence. They'd built their own completely unrelated game with the same name from the ground up SPECIFICALLY WITH THE DS IN MIND twice. Of course THEY are going to be able to build a game with bigger maps. Likewise with Shaba AND Robomodo. Shaba was founded by former members of Crystal Dynamics and Robomodo from former Midway and EA Chicago devs. Page 44 didn't have that experience, the pre-made tools they had included half-assed and buggy features written by Shaba and Neversoft, and the premade assets they had weren't meant for the systems they were porting to. My point stands that expecting more than what was delivered is unfair.
@@RubyRoks Prior to this, they worked with EA on a wide variety of decent games. So aside from the fact that neversoft proved what was possible with American Wasteland, and that open world games were prevalent 5 years earlier; The fact remains that Page44 was a 6 year deep studio with all of the resources and major work done for them. They went on for another 4 years after this, and then got bought by Zynga. I know exactly what goes into porting video games, I've done a fair amount of development myself as a hobby. I consider the challenges of just making the game work with a different processing architecture, as well as optimizing the assets to work more properly with the hardware. Expecting more than the minimal effort they delivered wasn't unfair. What's unfair is selling unfinished software to a poor consumer who may have been looking forward to it. What's unfair is every other team putting in the maximum effort while one outlier was falling behind. I can see why you might think I'm attacking Page44, but realistically all I'm saying is that they failed to do the job they were hired to do correctly with it being the only version that ended up broken and unfinished.
It's kind of hard for me to hate proving ground even though I only had it for ps2 because I'm from Baltimore and I never though they were going to make a Baltimore level let alone 3.
Apologies for the literal novel of a comment, but overall I like your channel and I want to see it grow, so this kinda matters to me. This is probably the quickest sub and then unsub I've had in a while. Normally, I'd just unsub and quietly move on, because - as a fellow creator myself - unless content is really vile, I don't like coming in and being a grinch about things. And I don't think your content is vile. I mean... I initially subbed for a reason. But personally, I think it would do your content well to do a couple more editing passes on your more negative sections/reviews, or slow down with the amount of content you produce. My problem isn't that I necessarily disagree with your criticisms, but rather that in several recent videos now, you've taken to these presumptive 'blame game' framings for them. It was THIS person's fault that this was bad, or THAT studio was obviously just being lazy. While there are very rare occasions where 'lazy' is the best way to describe why something turned out the way it did (or a single person is demonstrably responsible for an issue, like Todd Howard lying in Bethesda presentations being a HIM problem), generally calling something 'lazy' is in and of itself is ironically a lazy copout framing for your criticism. It's absolutely okay to make a guess about why a design issue exists. And it's totally okay if those issues REALLY bother you. But it's not doing you any favors to try and pin it on an individual, or some level of 'obvious' incompetence. We do not know what went on with the development during these games. I know you know that game development is complicated. And you seem to be aware of how easily publishers can screw a game's development. So it's frustrating to hear you spend minutes at a time, and sometimes upwards of 50% of your word count in a section just reiterating that you think it's lazy, and this person is awful, and that studio just sucked and didn't know what they were doing, etc. You've done the same with 'mainstream reviewers', in a way that just comes off as gatekeepy, and ill informed. I will be the FIRST to agree that - especially back in the day - games criticism was a well of garbage a lot of the time. But it's a shallow and frankly silly reading to act like they had ill intent, or didn't care, or were just terrible critics. If you look at the state of the industry, the demographics being most strongly catered to, and the comparative infancy games writing was in at the time (and it's still only really catching its stride), then it makes perfect sense why it was unfortunately not that great back in the day. And I think it's much more productive if you're going to mention it, to highlight the shortcomings of it within that kind of context, instead of just acting like it was a bunch of sh*t made by idiots who don't understand skating or games or whatever, you know? It's also INCREDIBLY important to understand the mindset of those times. A good example for me was how many reviews of late PS1 games heavily criticized them for not looking like PS2 games... something that's obviously impossible to rectify. But not only was technological understanding in general at a far lower level at that point, it made some sense (even though it's still weak criticism) within the context of how fast 3D visuals were moving at that time. After playing something like FFX, something like THPS3 on PS1 would've felt shockingly outdated, right? When people criticized something like the 'lack of innovation' or whatever in a game like Evolution Skateboarding, you have to remember they didn't have hindsight. They were living in a world where dozens of extreme sports games were coming out every year, for full price. And since they were doing consumer oriented reviews, they had to have some way to differentiate between what might've been worth your money. Doesn't mean they can't be wrong. But it does mean it's kind of unfair to just assume their intentions were bad, or they were stupid people. You have shown that you are capable of far stronger criticisms than a lot of these ones you've dwelled on in videos lately. And you've also shown that you're capable of making those criticisms sound less needlessly hostile, and more concise. So especially when the likely culprit is staring you in the face (like Page 44 having to develop both the Wii and PS2 ports of Proving Ground, on an old engine, with an obviously low budget, probably a very small studio, and in just a year), it just comes off as silly when you assume there's some extreme level of incompetence going on in the background. I hope this is helpful in some way, and if you wanna talk about it or games or whatever somewhere, you can hit me up on Discord, or reply to me here with yours and I'll hit you up. Though I understand if instead you think I'm a bit of a butthead, hahaha.
I'm sorry, this is the longest and most in depth video I've done. I did my reasearch. You wanting "far stronger criticisms" is like telling me I'm not working hard enough. If you think my reviews are too shallow, I won't keep you. But I won't change my opinions or style to become an echo chamber for people like you. Opinions don't have to be nice. Calling Page44 lazy is evident. It's been proven that critics take payment to give games better ratings. I'll take criticism about what the video is missing, my audio, whether or not a part of a video was hard to watch, or whether I missed something in game. But comments like this trying to tell me how to think, saying I didn't do enough work on the longest video I've made; I'll just say no and move on. *edit* After a second read, I really don't know what you want. I put in the work, gave reasons for everything I said, and my descriptor was accurate. I also do all of this for *free*. I wrote a really good review of a game that nobody talks about, which isn't easy. I put the extra work into learning about the writer, and how that writer affected the game. I know how game development works, and coequally I know enough about how every other Tony Hawk game was developed to draw a conclusion. So just because you heard the word "lazy" and thought it was shallow, that doesn't mean it was. All that means is you weren't actually paying attention.
@@RedBerylFTW I'm really sorry you feel that way, because you 'not working hard enough' has nothing to do with what I was saying. I literally suggested that maybe you were working too hard, because your release output is pretty high for the general length-to-quality ratio. I also said in several places and several ways that I think in general your content has been good. You showed up in my Recommended for a reason. And I'll say again that I initially subscribed a few weeks ago, for a reason. If that somehow translates to me telling you how to think, then maybe you need to step back and try to learn to take criticism a bit better yourself, as someone seemingly so keen to dish it so harshly. My intent was never to tell you what mechanics or design choices to like or dislike. It was never to argue you're a terrible critic or person. I was literally just saying that it would serve your content better if you dialed back the hyperbolic wording, and the amount of time you spent repeating it. What I meant by saying you were capable of 'far stronger criticisms'... is that you've literally SHARED far stronger criticisms ALREADY, in other videos. And hell, even in the videos I've had problems with. I'm not asking you to do better; I'm saying you've DONE better and CAN DO better. You don't NEED to make assumptions and call things 'lazy'. Nor reiterate it so fervently. To put it bluntly, it is beneath you. If you somehow misconstrue THAT as me in some way suggesting that you're not working hard enough, or your 'thinking' and critique are bad, then you do you, I guess... "I wrote a really good review of a game that nobody talks about, which isn't easy." It's true that that's not easy, and it's notable that you'd think I would assume as much, considering I've been making similar content for over 9 years now. A quick glance at my channel would've clued you in on that. I know it's not easy firsthand, and it's even harder when the games you're researching for are so lost to time and the cultural zeitgeist, that information on them is shockingly hard to find. But that's all the more reason to be careful about your wording and assumptions. A genuinely good criticism (which you've provided in most of your points in these videos) doesn't need you to waste time ascribing some ill intent or blame, or anything like that 99% of the time. It speaks for itself. I really don't blame you for being upset about my comment. And the only thing I think is laughable in your reply is the idea that it's 'been proven' that journalists take money for higher review scores (it hasn't, at least off of TH-cam, because that's not how that industry works; there have been a handful of issues in the past, namely the Kane and Lynch GameSpot thing, but what you're claiming exists... doesn't). But it sucks in a rather ironic way that your conclusion seems to be that I was calling YOU lazy somehow. I genuinely was hoping to instead find someone to 'talk shop' with; a fellow creator to chat with about games and projects, and learn from and all that. I just also happened to have some mild criticisms that disappointed me, and bugged me personally. So I wanted to give your effort the due it deserved by sharing those criticisms in full... taking my time to share my thoughts as a fellow creator. Heck, I was even planning to just share those criticisms privately instead, if you'd had your Discord or something linked in your About section. But again... you do you...
@@LibraScope I still don't understand what you want. Like I said already, I gave plenty of concise reasons for my wording. I broke down why Page44 was lazy, and critics have been caught in public time and time again taking payments to shift the public perspective in one direction or another. Mainstream critics in general get paid an average of $20 an hour to say whatever the editor tells them to say. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm upset, really I'm not because at the end this changes nothing for me. I'm just genuinely confused. I know you probably think these long comments are getting your point across, but you really aren't giving me anything to work with here. If you could somehow *disprove* that it was laziness, and you could somehow *disprove* that critics take payment (you literally proved that it happens by pointing out the Kane and Lynch scandal, honestly just ill wording to say it "doesn't exist" when it quite literally does/has and you just acknowledged it), what you're saying would make a lot more sense. If you offered me any real criticism here, I would have taken it. People tell me I'm too loud, or to add things to the description, and I get told about things that I miss or reasons that something might be better than I think. I take those things, they have substance. On all of this, your suggestion doesn't make sense. I'm somehow not doing enough to justify my words, but also somehow working too hard. My criticism is harsh, and I'll take it harsh in return. But I won't just take it for no reason. If I think you're wrong, I'm going to defend myself, and you've given me no reason to accept your criticism. I do not *have* to accept criticism from *everybody*. You've given me more reason to reject it by making a crucial point for me (e.g. paid critics). I think you really need to take your own criticism. Give the video part you questioned a second watch, and then ask yourself if what you have to say is accurate. This comment is, ironically, a victim of the exact thing you're trying to criticize me for.
@@RedBerylFTW Laziness places a specific type of blame on the one making the product/art/content. As such, the onus is on you to prove that it was laziness. Lemme ask... what proof do you have that the game's shortcomings are due to a lack of effort from the developers, as opposed to... a lack of time, or a lack of resources, a lack of workforce, or budget, or the hubris of an executive in Activision's management, or the complexities of down-porting these assets and the design of the next-gen game to the older tech, or a mismatch between that tech, the platform, and the assets they were given. Maybe it was a memory management issue, or they had to spend so much time prepping the assets so that they could RUN on those lower spec systems, that they didn't have time to do any engine work. Or maybe (most likely) it was a wealth of these complexities combine. Page44 wasn't a person. It was a company. And frankly, the idea of the company as a whole, or even the majority of them being so lazy as to sabotage this product, when it is more than likely the life of their studio and their livelihoods on the line, and when they're more than likely already crunching their butts off... is pretty silly when you really think about it. You made the claim it was laziness. You backed up your claims of weakness in the game's design. But you didn't have a single shred of proof that the REASON for those faults, was a lack of effort and care. Where is your source? Where are your developer statements? What do you have that isn't just a vague assumption based on feelings you have? Saying "This other game did what they didn't" isn't a reason; it's an excuse. Because no two games are created within the same context... the same environment... with the same problems and constraints. So unless you have insider knowledge that proves there was some laziness epidemic and a substantial amount of people at Page44 weren't working hard enough, you didn't 'prove' it was laziness to any degree. And it makes much more sense to assume that it was due to the difficulties of a small support studio making TWO low budget ports of a game on a different engine and coming from significantly more powerful hardware, in just a year. As for the whole paid to review thing, your assumptions there are hilariously wrong. But more so, the Kain and Lynch fiasco proves the opposite. Nobody was paid to change anything. Higher ups were worried about it hurting their advertising options. And the reviewer of which the score changes were demanded... quit and went public with it, while he and many others have repeatedly expressed shock at how insanely out of character that was for the industry. He wasn't offered payment to change it. He was threatened with the loss of his job. Occam's Razor suggests that if this was such a common problem, you'd have insiders spilling those beans left and right. We can absolutely recognize that as a hugely awful incident. And we can absolutely say it was unacceptable. And we can also demand better. We can also complain about other issues with mainstream reviews, like the obsession with still including review scores, or the fact that they're often understaffed but overbooked with reviews, or many other things. But what happened with Kain and Lynch had nothing to do with paid reviews, nor does it suggest an epidemic. It was also well over a decade ago now. If you want an epidemic of people being paid to review games, TH-cam is where you need to look. Because it is becoming a serious problem HERE... with the amateurs who directly profit from their presentation of that content, and who have very little fear of co-workers turning whistleblower and bringing the whole house down.
@@LibraScope *edit* Of course it is a specific blame. They specifically produced the worst version of the game. They are to blame because they are the studio that developed it. Seriously, you need to take your own advice and think about what you say. The proof is in the pudding. The maps were lazily imported with minimal change, and the game was optimized lazily because an inefficient amount of high effort went into other things that were also broken. They spent plenty of time porting things like Aggro Kick and the assets, but they didn't do any *design*. Vicarious visions had the exact same amount of time, and their effort was better. Page 44 was 6 years old and had already worked on one Tony Hawk game prior. I can tell just by listening to you that you really were not paying attention to what I said, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening. The real take was "They were lazy in designing the maps and world, and that was because other mechanics were inefficient and got too much effort." But all you heard was "Lazy" and you already told me why. Occam's Razor is a lazy way to draw your own conclusion, ironically. Even more ironic than that, writing such a massive comment based on a conclusion that you drew on that principal. Kane and Lynch *does* prove my point because whether or not that one employee came clean means nothing. People also rat in the mob. That doesn't mean every other member is suddenly going to become a rat. The fact remains that an executive tried to manipulate the ratings, and the story broke to the public. There's also the issue of press parties, testing events, and conventions where companies invite critics with expenses and commodities paid just to sway opinions. It's not directly monetary compensation, but it's effectively the same thing. More effective, actually. You're right, there is a problem with TH-cam critics. That's exactly why I'm doing what I'm doing. No red arrows in the thumbnail, no clickbait expression. No donations or super chats or memberships. No ad revenue because I use copyrighted music. No Patreon. No sponsorships. No merchandise. That gives me the freedom to tell the truth, instead of bowing to the current cultural narrative just for views.
I've noticed you've got the ghosting from emulating Tony Hawk games in pcsx2. You can fix these in all the games by enabling HW Hacks and ticking Wild Arms offset. Setting texture offset to X = 75 and Y = 150.
Night and day. If you already didn't like Project 8 on PS3, you might not like it. But if you did like P8 or you don't mind the new body flip system, then yeah you'll probably have a great time.
@@RedBerylFTW Then I totally will play it 😀 Because of your videos I've revisit a lot old Tony Hawk games and learned about great other games I never knew about. Thanks a lot, you're awesome dude 🙏
@@raphaeldullaert2426 FWIW I first played the PS2 version and then tried the PS3 version and only found it marginally better... not exactly night and day but definitely better
Tony Hawk's Aggro Kick. The grey game. Oh man, the ps2 footage is rough. Is PCSX2 doing this? Are there no fixes on the Wiki? On the console it's not like this graphically and I don't remember framerate issues. Proving Ground may be functional better, but it's forgettable all around. I played it through. The ps3/360 version and ps2 versions. But I can't remember anything from the story because it's that forgettable. As I said, it evolved from Project 8's bad writing and made it even worse and Nail the sh*t is still the worst thing. Aggro Kick is the only good thing about the last 2 Neversoft TH games. And even the PS2 port textures look better than the grey counterpart. And there is one thing that makes it far different from the others (at least here). It got dubbed. THPS3 was the last game that was dubbed in German until this (and 1+2). Maybe it was so bad that the story was even worse because of it xD
The blur issue is PCSX2 upscaling. I think turning the texture blending to ultra fixes it, but nothing fixes the framerate. I actually do remember having a similar framerate back in the day on my fat ps2. The Baltimore areas especially are brutal.
Physics and mechanics were clunky and awful, graphics were't the worst but the artistic and colour design was horrendous.. I can't really think of anything good for me personally about either P8 or PG, Tony Hawk games died for me after American Wasteland. I grew up with THPS3/THPS4, THUG/THUG2 and THAW, if they had of kept that engine and just made new HD visuals for the new systems at the time I probably would think different about these games. Not that it's connected, but seeing you mongo push at the start in the Skate gameplay is hard to watch ngl.
Sounds personal. Are you the dev I was shit talking? That would be hysterical. *edit* That question is rhetorical. I really don't care what you have to say. You're a literal nobody who has said nothing of value.
To add some further insult to the no Open-World on PS 2 injury: About 6 Months before Proving Grounds released, the PS 2 and PSP Ports of Test Drive Unlimited where released, a Open World Racing game that uses the entire Island of Oʻahu, Hawaii as it´s Map. And by entire Island I´m not talking about just the road network, but really the entire Island. And it allowed you to teleport to any road you already discovered without the need of a long loading time. So yeah, there really is no excuse what so ever for them not implementing the whole Open World Map.
Test Drive Unlimited is my favorite TD game.
TDU was AWESOME 💯❤
It feels so good to hear a guy other than me showering this game in praise. It's too far overlooked and overhated.
The fact that the DS version runs at 60fps is honestly really impressive.
If you think that's impressive look at C.O.P. The Recruit - an open world GTA-style DS game with insane graphics that runs at 60 FPS at ALL TIMES.
Meanwhile the PS2 version runs at 14...
Underrated game. Obviously at the time it came out most of us were completely hooked on Skate, but Proving Ground got a lot more hate than it deserved I feel like
Most underrated Tony Hawk game . This was my third entry to the series as a kid and it truly felt like Underground 3 just built off of the project 8 engine. Is it perfect? No, but it was the direction the series should’ve kept going in.
Finally someone gives this game the respect it deserves
I love how you said proving ground feels like it could be underground 3, I always got that impression by the name itself, proving ground. Idk lol but cool to know I’m not alone
This game is very underrated, I liked it more than Project 8, the story is just so good.
I feel like this game takes many of the best aspects of previous games and improves upon them in a big way. It's hugely underrated in the series and this video really has me wanting to replay it
Totally agree with your 10/10. The game world and weather is so true to the east coast. It’s the best controlling. Most fluid TH game. The only reason I hook my PS3 still! And it came out at one of the best times of my life. So extra points there.
Brooo massive respect to the effort and hard work you put into these vids! It’s so refreshing getting your opinions on these games cuz of how unique they are. Like you said: “everyone has their own taste”. I was an immature teenager when this came out, and I never paid any attention to the story or the finer details. I just went off my overall first impressions which were that the game looked gloomy and lacked the crazy variety of different levels. I pawned the game after beating it, and moved on. Now I’m gonna hunt it down and appreciate it with a new perspective on the overall feel that the game was going for. You’re breathing new life into this dead franchise for me, and that’s friggin amazing. Keep doin the dang thang G🙌💯
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after watching the PS3 part of the video I was like “I remember this game being terrible wtf” and then realizing I had played the Wii port. Had no idea there were way better ports
"C'mon, man! You telling me you can't clear that?"-Mike V
I grew up with the DS version of this game. My uncle put it on an R4 card he gave me and i remember it being really fun for what it was
Along with SSX and Amped you could check out 1080° and Stoked and the Shaun White games
this game carried me through my parents divorce
love Proving Ground. Underrated gem 💎 also thank you for shouting our Future Pigeon, classic dub reggae band with the cleanest recordings.
I sung this games praise my whole life it was a big part in teaching me so much about skateboarding culture and the music helped me find some of my favourite bands
Aww I miss these games good times also there is 2 freestyle moto cross games to are Freestyle metal x and crispy demons the game there fun games.
Proving ground is prolly still my favorite. PS3 versions the one I’ve always played. I just love that nail the trick mechanic.
Can’t wait to watch this. This is my favorite TH game! Your videos are like comfort food to me. 🤘🏻
Been watching these videos fairly regularly since your channel has been recommended to me quite a bit. These videos are great and you have earned yourself a subscriber. I am also glad to see a review of Tony Hawk’s Proving Ground that properly shows why this game is genuinely great.
Another fantastic video lad! I had a similar experience to you, I only played this game like 4 years ago just on a whim and honestly I wasn't a fan haha. I got the PS3 version which runs not too bad but I hadn't played next gen port of P8 and was baffled by the physics and tuning. For some reason even though I didn't enjoy it, I kept coming back and playing, just free-skating around. Eventually it all clicked and it's in my top 3 THPS games. It honestly reminds me the most of the first game on PS1, not because of the phsyics or how it's programmed or anything like that. But the believable feeling of landing into transition, more difficult balance metres, or clearing a gap just FEELS so much more immersive and grounded. Which might sound odd when talking about this franchise since THPS is considered arcadey now, but it WAS the most realistic skate game until Skate 1 came out, even then it wasn't until Skate 3 came out in 2010 those games stopped being niche.
This game has a lot of interesting mechanics that I never see brought up, like how you can manual wallpush off of walls, poles, cars and even peds lol. I think what made me "get" the semi-realistic gravity in this game was how it's basically impossible to manual up slopes, HOWEVER using the new and improved wallpush you can, and feels like that was it's original intention. I only realised this when trying to manual up between the two stair sets that connect Freedom Plaza and The Mall, which is why they placed little trees in the middle of them so you can wallpush your way up to the top!
Another mechanic is the Beanplant you can do before landing by tapping ollie that extends your combo. I think this is a hidden trick and I don't remember if the game ever teaches you it in a goal???
Also it's quite odd they never added the Boned Ollie in Project 8 or Proving Ground when it would suit the realistic feel and allow you to clear waist high obstacles. Oh and skate check mechanic when airbourne is like a Slob Air which is kinda neat to do just as trick.
The level design is amazing and almost every level is a banger. The only that's weak is Landsdowne. But I personally love the more down to earth ledges and planters. Also the FDR recreation looks quite faithful.
The DS port is pretty great, the skate lounge and customisation like being able to draw your own deck graphic with the stylus makes it stand out. I remember I had the DS port as a child and really loved it.
THPS 10 was in development at the tail end of production of this game, and all I know it they remade Tony Hawk's backgarden skatepark as the first level. I do wonder what that game would've been like and how it could have improved and fully shown off how well this engine plays compared to P8. It's a shame Proving Ground never got a native PC port since I think modding could've have fixed performance and adding custom content would gotten more of the community to love this game rather than forget about it. Also shout out to Larxian for porting over the Proving Ground levels into THUGPro, he's a legend!
Can't wait for the next video!
That's a big comment :0 I appreciate it. I didn't know there were any plans for a TH10 but I'm hella curious about that now.
I've never really thought of Tony Hawk games as "Arcade-y" personally. Arcade skateboarding games were racers, and most other arcade games are quarter muncher high score machines. I think that's why I stuck with "tech-fantasy" as a descriptor. Just feels right.
We Still need a jet-set radio and skate video but keep up the good work
Can’t wait till you get to the Skate series.
Seems like I need to go back to this game. I loved the series up until Project 8. That game kind of threw me off, I didn't play it as much and then Proving Ground came around and in my memory I played it for 20 minutes and then never played it again, because I was still so disappointed about Project 8. Kind of weird now in retrospect, but well..
I think what generally threw me off was the "greyness" of the visuals which you mentioned in the video and the change in the physics from the PS2 games which I loved.
In this review it sounds like the modern day Tony Hawk I always wanted, so I may need to revisit the game.
I remember a few years ago, going through a crappy breakup and had to sell my 360 to pay rent. My mate lent me his PS2 and i bought whatever games my local pawnshop had for the system and Proving Ground happened to be one of them. I went in with 0 expectations, but was pleasantly surprised by the game. It wasn't the best for sure, but it entertained me enough through a difficult time and i also genuinely love the soundtrack, even if some of the song choices are ...strange (one track seems to be from a band that literally has no other songs, and pretty much zero presence online)
Maybe I enjoyed it more because i expected nothing, but it sits among my top 5 THPS games for sure
I went so effin ham on this game with my xbox360
All of my Tony Hawk memories are from the PS2 versions. I will have to try and run it. Project 8 crashed rpcs3 often. I wasn't really a critic before I knew what the internet was
Early warning* With RPCS3, if you load into the bridge and the graphics are broken, just pause and teleport to the skate lounge in the "my skater" menu. It fixes that.
@@RedBerylFTW if I can get past the loading screen after skater creation I will keep this in mind
I need to try this game. I never did, I was one of the people who found Project 8 so jarring that I didn’t even pick this up, but I might now.
I didn’t comment on your Project 8 video, I watched it, but I felt like you covered anything I could say. I played on PlayStation 2 which is why I hated it, if I’d played the PS3 or 360 version I would have a different opinion I’m sure.
I never had a PS3 but still have my 360 lying around, I’ll be keeping an eye out for a copy of this and Project 8 as well.
Idk why but for me personally, if they had made the whole game in the ps2 graphics/physics with the same attention and quality of the 360/ps3 version it would have been perfect. I just couldn’t get immersed or have as much fun with the next gen physics
i watched this review around the time it came out and it got me to try this game out. im glad i did, its definitely one of my favorites in the series!
I feel like i should revisit this game. My memory of it was blank but even though i played project 8 a lot(but not as much as thps2 and underground)this video gives me a different outlook on proving ground
Game suggestion - Freestyle Metal X PS2
This is the only mainline tony hawk game I haven't beat. I hadn't beaten Project 8 (despite having it on release) until last year when I bought a used ps2 copy and I ended up liking it. I had this on ps3.. will probably emulate it and give it another go after I'm done with the games I'm currently playing through. Great video.
Thps was and will alway be my childhood, along with grind session and thrasher s&d .. but thank god for skater xl and session ❤
Yes!!! Proving ground is the best!
Out of the main tony hawk games I never played thaw, project 8, proving grounds, HD or thps 5. Watching this review is making me want to get an Xbox just so I can experience this game. It honestly looks like an underrated gem and from what I see it has good gameplay with a good story. I’ve been craving for that since underground. I can’t wait to try this one
I always thought that "slam" thing you keep talking about was just the animation of the skater stretching to land more softly (crouching when. After I saw these games on new-gen, I started thinking the skaters on previous games didn't land smoothly at all.
And this game sorta has it too, I think it just might look more like an animation this time when using the classic camera.
Falling from a higher distance in Project 8 makes it a lot heavier. Makes the whole camera shake, and leaves an impact particle effect under you for a second. Pro Skater 5 just literally lets you slam down to the ground, and it looks similar but it's done with a button input instead. This game kept the animation, but got rid of the slam properties. You actually use it to break through some ground pieces in those games.
2:05 oh lord WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO TONY?!?
Still a better look than Boom Boom Sabotage lmao
holy shit, someone who sings proving ground's praises, this was always my favorite tony hawk game, it feels so fun to play and there's tons to do, both in terms of mechanics and size of the map. this game gets slept on and overhated so much and it makes me sad
this game's soundtrack is easily my favorite in the series too, it has Natural One on it which automatically makes it one of the best
Best Tony Hawk game and my favorite game ever.
This game got so much more hate than it deserved when it came out it was always one of my favorites especially after coming from project 8 and being disappointed with it this was one of the biggest breaths of fresh air as a fan because it was new but has the same formula we know and love but on newer hardware sucks not everyone felt the same way
Proving grounds was my first Tony Hawk game I remember my dad bought it for me one Christmas, some people know Tony Hawk games in the arcade and classic way, I know Tony Hawk because of the story mode and thanks to it it made me skate even the east coast skate scene now is very interesting (not hating on cali etc it’s just too clean for me ). Made fell in love with Tony Hawk I’ve played them all expect Pro for skater 5
This game had a good mix of easy and accessible lines whilst also allowing you, upon learning the map, to find and slowly master some much more difficult yet rewarding lines. It felt somewhat more grounded in reality than some of the other games but the fun was in the exploration and it had fair replayablity , the carve mechanic, whilst not really needed did help in creating more "real" looking bowl skating i thought. 7 / 10 imo
They need this story on the new skate game. I loved the story line in proving ground. Able to pick your style in skating
I'm kind of weird in that, as someone who had a more positive experience with American Wasteland, I just never got around to picking up Project 8 while it was new so I ended up skipping that entry in the franchise. When Proving Grounds came around I made sure to go pick it up because I figured this would be where all of the new mechanics introduced in the past 2 games would've been at least close to perfected. Proving Grounds is definitely the game I go back to surprisingly often. It's for sure one of if not the most under appreciated game in the franchise however I don't know that I could give it a 10/10. Easily an 8/10 but there are a few things PG is lacking in. I really wish there was more of a "Classic Mode" with updated versions of levels from previous games along with ideally one or two levels exclusive to PG. My only other real gripe with the game is the "Skate Lounge". It just felt like a totally neutered version of Create-A-Park from games as old as THPS2. I do agree that the main story mode is fantastic and the open world although kind of grey and drab is super fun to skate around in. It just bummed me out that the great story mode was all the game had. I would have really loved to play some older levels in the PG engine.
I've been thinking about the classic maps and skate lounge part of this comment. Honestly, I probably wasn't even bothered by it because of the rigger stuff. Being able to build anywhere in the city keeps things really fresh. That said, a New Jersey remake or something would have been perfect.
Are you gonna to do the skate series? They really changes the dynamic of the whole genre
For sure. I've been capturing the footage for a while now
@@RedBerylFTWIf you join the EA Insider program you can join playtests for the new Skate game. I can't say anything about what it's like from experience due to NDA but I can say it's been fascinating seeing the updates to the game builds over time.
@@PlebNC Will have to check it out. I saw pre-alpha footage, but it's been a long time.
I had this on the ps3 I remember it being fun as hell but it disappeared not to long after I got it. Didn't get to really get into the career but the skating was fun for sure
when we gonna see the redberylftw street part????
Snowy as hell rn lmao but that just means a month or 2 for some extra exercise.
do you play these games on original hardware or do you emulate them? I feel like I've heard you mention it before but I forgot or don't know if you do a mix.
I emulate them for the footage but I own/buy all of the games I cover
I played the PS2 port when I was younger and it soured me on this game. I have the PS3 port now and I need to play more of it.
Also these combos are nutty
thug pro really warped the way I play these games
Loved this game so much man
This game rocks, but im annoyed that i can't play as a woman
That definitely hurts the customization. You can play as Vanessa Torres in classic but not having custom skater options for women is a drag
ok but can we talk about how from 12:19 - 12:23 he perfectly lands in the back of that truck bed hahaha XD love it
_Tony Hawks Proving Ground is a good THPS game👼😈🤷🏾♂️_
_I’ve been playing THPS since THPS1 on the PS1_
_Tony Hawks Underground 2 & 1 are LEGENDARY_
People that hate on games like Proving Ground and Thug 2 are wild 😂 I love these games.
the only sins this game really had were the wack grind/manual meter displays and an undersaturated color palette. the maps ported into THUGPro were pretty overwhelming, it really needed some color to give it justice.
22:56 if this is your cat can we get a picture on the next video?
great stuff as always!!!
If I can catch him. His name is "Steve-O" and we call him that for a reason XD
After watching this video, i decided to give this game another try. I have played every single game before it and ive played thugpro pretty much everyday for a long time now. I finally got it to work after some research on my emulator. Its great. It’s actually fantastic. Im sort’ve mad at myself for trashing it based on only reviews and not opinions of my own.
Thanks for sharing your mind on this and introducing me to a new game in a series i thought i saw it all from. I even tried project 8 and i also love it lol.
That's awesome, glad I could contribute to the experience 🍻
i honestly love this game. its just a shame its not backwards compatible for xbox one
Thug is my favorite n thps3 I second but this is my favorite 3rd being from phillly. It’s a great game
Great review about a great game. Proving ground is an amazing game, absolute gem that gets way to much flak for nothing really.
Hey just stopping by to let people know there's a mod for Proving Ground that makes it run at a stable 60fps called Tony Hawk Proving Ground+. It has tons of quality of life improvements and works on emulator and consoles aswell. 100% recommend it's how the game was meant to be played.
That's huge :0
Can't seem to find it. Did it just disappear?
@@HuladeHoopla You can find it here: thpgplus.weebly.com/
And a showcase video from one of the modding team here:
th-cam.com/video/CmYSm-XPBGk/w-d-xo.html
Bro... WHAT?! I like this game a lot and agree it's underrated, but 10/10??!!! There are SO many flaws and imperfections in this game that hold it back. I played the shit out of it. So many of the goal mechanics just don't work correctly. Everything is inconsistent and nothing feels responsive. Stuff like the camera goals not registering consistently. Things not registering you tricked or touched them. The timing and collision for checking feels randomized. The camera whipping around in very disorienting ways. Random unfair bails in the middle of big combos. NTT still being terribly overpowered. It's better than P8, but everything is still just SO imprecise and glitchy compared to the previous engine. Even worse, there are SO MANY goals that depend on some unique mechanic that's just super underbaked, like the camera or checking goals I mentioned. I wish it wasn't the case because there's a lot to love in this game, but the core gameplay is just still not solid enough to support the whole rest of the game. ESPECIALLY the sick goals, which are still total BS and obviously untested.
Crazy I didn't have these problems. I never had any responsiveness or collision issues, and I never felt like a sick goal was asking too much because if I couldn't do it normally, I could rig up something or go into nail mode. I also didn't have any photo problems. It always took the picture, and it always knew when I was doing a trick or when I was facing the camera. On the game camera, I did have it whip around in that way once or twice, but I've also had that happen in 1+2 and it doesn't bother me there either. Spinning on a real skateboard is much more disorienting. That's just my personal experience.
@@RedBerylFTW I liked doing the random street challenges around the map and the classic and high score goals most. But the story mode was just a slog. It's been a long time but I remember one climbing goal with Vanessa Torres that just refused to recognize that I landed on a platform and made it impossible to progress. The checking goals that are basically luck in that you just have to hope the guys will line up in a way that it will be possible to hit them all within the time limit or you're F'd and just have to restart. The slash grind tricks not registering correctly for those goals. One goal where you have to wallplant/wallride things in the subway and the collision on the objects was just way too small, and the physics made it super frustrating to stop and turn around in tight spaces when you miss them. It was just incessant, and super obvious that most of these goals and mechanics were held together with duct tape, and everything was borderline untested. Even the good goals, if they had a high score element, get bogged down by the NTT and focus mode slowing the pace of the game down to a crawl (but being all but required for high scores). I had the same problem with SSX On Tour. Slow motion is cool, but if you make it easy and overpowered, it ruins the pace of your game.
I played a bunch of the PS2 port as well and agree that it is significantly worse and embarrassingly bad for how good the previous PS2 games were. But the gap between the PS2 and PS3 versions is not nearly as wide in my experience. I had many of the same problems you mentioned in the PS2 section on the PS3 version. I'd put them at about 5/10 and 7/10 respectively.
@@hhgreg2969 Can't say much about the Vanessa goal (if you mean the balcony grind climb, I also didn't have that problem. Caveman from the rail in, works just fine.) Skate Checking also wasn't really a big deal. Once I realized I could check thugs on rails and that there was a small window to press it early, it was pretty easy. With the slow motion of Nail the Trick, the flow was ruined for me initially in Thug 2 when focus was added. I like NT because it lets you get creative in a unique way, as opposed to focus mode which literally just slows the game down to make it easier. Thug 2, THAW, and the PS2 versions of P8 and PG all have that same empty, useless focus mode. It was just nice to see anything done with it. Trying to body spin a method fingerflip into 360 flip to casper in the nail system is a lot more complex than just slow motion for no reason.
@@RedBerylFTW I'm not sure how you never ran into all this issues I did, maybe I'm unlucky or just play differently. I really like NTT in concept, it was really fun to mess around with, but it was just too unbalanced for goals. Being able to do it whenever you want AND giving you more airtime AND making timing easier AND being worth significantly more points than anything else was just too much. Even just limiting how you could use it, like having to build up a meter that's very limited, or only after a certain threshold in a combo, or something, would be a big step in the right direction.
@@hhgreg2969 Now that you mention it, I didn't even realize the special meter was gone. You can perform a special trick after successfully landing pretty much anything, and NTT just whenever. In the DS port, you need special to activate NTT. I was just having fun and didn't notice. Doesn't change much for me, but I get what you mean.
I'll give this a go. 🤘
Putting my P.S. upfront as a TLDR: This comment ballooned HARD, but i took significant umbrage with the majority of your coverage of the PS2 version of the game. Feel free to completely ignore, but i'd say it's worthwhile that you read it. I don't disagree the PS2 version is bad, but i disagree with your assessment of Page 44.
I played the demo for this on Xbox 360 and owned the PS2 version. Vehemently hated both at the time. My only experience with Proving Ground that's been positive is watching Nightspeeds play it. After hearing your high praise for the 7th gen version, i'm thinking i'll have to give it another chance. Honestly, if i were project lead on a hypothetical THUG 3 or THPS 6, i'd have made some of the same decisions Neversoft did making this.
Side note/obnoxious rant: Comparing the lack of an open world in the PS2 port to the open world in Morrowind on Xbox is unfair at best. Bethesda A: had 6 years to make their game as opposed to less than 1, and B: had to implement seamlessly rebooting the Xbox into the loading procedure to make their port work. That's not something i'd expect from Neversoft on a 1 year dev cycle, let alone the folks who got given release candidate builds of the 7th gen version to build their game from. Even then, the cell culling system in Morrowind functions on a game of that size because the Xbox could stream data as needed from the horrifically slow DVD to the much faster hard drive. It's the reason Final Fantasy XI works on PS2, but requires a hard drive. Imagine if Tony Hawk's Proving Ground for PS2 was one of a selection of under 10 games that REQUIRED a hard drive in an era where the PS2 slim was the only model being sold. "Rebuilding" the maps to fit the hardware WAS the cheap option, and likely took significantly less time, and thus money, than you think as the models for the maps already existed and just needed tweaks to close them off. Additionally, the reason NFS and GTA games could get away with open worlds on PS2 is because they're SIGNIFICANTLY less dense, lower poly, and have worse textures than any of the maps in Proving Ground PS2. I already mentioned the example of Final Fantasy XI, but for another example: Yakuza by Sega has about as dense and high fidelity a world as this game does, and even with multiple years of dev time, it didn't have a no-loads/hidden-loads fully open world that detailed on PS2. Yes, the PS2 could be made to run Proving Ground's full map, but given the PS3 had been out for over a year and the Xbox 360 over 2 at that point, and how few PS2s would actually be able to play it due to the requirement of a $100 add on that the systems on sale at the time couldn't use, making it happen for the then-last gen version of the game doesn't make sense. THPG PS2 is very clearly a bad game, but I don't think you're giving Page 44 the credit they're due based on misconceptions of how complicated porting games actually is. You acknowledge they were a studio in over their head on this port, yet still expected them to deliver more than they were VERY CLEARLY capable of. That's incredibly unfair, and being glad dozens of people you don't know lost their jobs is kinda shitty, especially when they were a support studio on a game you praised: Freekstyle.
I'm not doubting that a few passionate people worked at Page44. But Morrowind wasn't the only comparison. Every NFS Game, every GTA game, and like another comment mentioned Test Drive Unlimited which let you drive around the entire island of Hawaii. Page 44 had a pre built engine, pre-built assets, and a fair amount of time to make it all work. Even if it wasn't open world, they could have put the minimal effort into merging a few districts in a way that would have made for better maps. Vicarious Visions built a better game on weaker and more complicated hardware with bigger maps and it's just as faithful. Shaba Games completely redesigned Project 8 for the PS2. Even Robomodo put in the effort to make their own mediocre engine better over time. This was the *second* Tony Hawk game Page44 worked on, and it was so much worse than the first time. I don't feel bad for my criticism, because the employees and leaders probably went on to get better jobs in areas that better suited their capabilities. As one collective studio, their dissolution was a good thing.
@@RedBerylFTW Morrowind wasn't my only comparison either. I addressed your comparisons to NFS, GTA, as well as Final Fantasy XI and Yakuza in my comment. To reiterate, the maps in NFS, GTA, and TDU are significantly lower poly and lower res than what's happening in THPG. Most of the map of Tri-Bay City in NFS Undercover (The PS2 port of which is not great) are non-solid buildings with no collision or collision on only a handful of faces. Most of San Andreas is empty space in the ocean, the countryside, and the desert. Most of TDU's truncated recreation of Hawaii is low poly houses trees on the side of the road. Most of the game world in THPG is ramps, rails, bowls, buildings, cars, curbs, etc the player is meant to interact with up close ON PS3 AND XBOX 360. As such, as much of it as is reasonable needs collision and high res textures. The DVD drive in the PS2 on its own simply can't shift that much data as fast as would be necessary. You'd end up with loading stutter as seen in Yakuza, which would kill the flow of the game
Vicarious had been a studio for longer and had largely been doing these types of ports for the majority of their existence. They'd built their own completely unrelated game with the same name from the ground up SPECIFICALLY WITH THE DS IN MIND twice. Of course THEY are going to be able to build a game with bigger maps. Likewise with Shaba AND Robomodo. Shaba was founded by former members of Crystal Dynamics and Robomodo from former Midway and EA Chicago devs. Page 44 didn't have that experience, the pre-made tools they had included half-assed and buggy features written by Shaba and Neversoft, and the premade assets they had weren't meant for the systems they were porting to. My point stands that expecting more than what was delivered is unfair.
@@RubyRoks Prior to this, they worked with EA on a wide variety of decent games. So aside from the fact that neversoft proved what was possible with American Wasteland, and that open world games were prevalent 5 years earlier;
The fact remains that Page44 was a 6 year deep studio with all of the resources and major work done for them. They went on for another 4 years after this, and then got bought by Zynga. I know exactly what goes into porting video games, I've done a fair amount of development myself as a hobby. I consider the challenges of just making the game work with a different processing architecture, as well as optimizing the assets to work more properly with the hardware. Expecting more than the minimal effort they delivered wasn't unfair. What's unfair is selling unfinished software to a poor consumer who may have been looking forward to it. What's unfair is every other team putting in the maximum effort while one outlier was falling behind. I can see why you might think I'm attacking Page44, but realistically all I'm saying is that they failed to do the job they were hired to do correctly with it being the only version that ended up broken and unfinished.
It's kind of hard for me to hate proving ground even though I only had it for ps2 because I'm from Baltimore and I never though they were going to make a Baltimore level let alone 3.
Is your voice text to speech or do you actually speak like a robot. It’s eerily robotic yet human I can’t tell. Sick vid tho
I actually talk like that lmao
project 8 made me lose faith in the franchise. Wish this would have came out before
Apologies for the literal novel of a comment, but overall I like your channel and I want to see it grow, so this kinda matters to me.
This is probably the quickest sub and then unsub I've had in a while. Normally, I'd just unsub and quietly move on, because - as a fellow creator myself - unless content is really vile, I don't like coming in and being a grinch about things. And I don't think your content is vile. I mean... I initially subbed for a reason.
But personally, I think it would do your content well to do a couple more editing passes on your more negative sections/reviews, or slow down with the amount of content you produce. My problem isn't that I necessarily disagree with your criticisms, but rather that in several recent videos now, you've taken to these presumptive 'blame game' framings for them. It was THIS person's fault that this was bad, or THAT studio was obviously just being lazy. While there are very rare occasions where 'lazy' is the best way to describe why something turned out the way it did (or a single person is demonstrably responsible for an issue, like Todd Howard lying in Bethesda presentations being a HIM problem), generally calling something 'lazy' is in and of itself is ironically a lazy copout framing for your criticism. It's absolutely okay to make a guess about why a design issue exists. And it's totally okay if those issues REALLY bother you.
But it's not doing you any favors to try and pin it on an individual, or some level of 'obvious' incompetence. We do not know what went on with the development during these games. I know you know that game development is complicated. And you seem to be aware of how easily publishers can screw a game's development. So it's frustrating to hear you spend minutes at a time, and sometimes upwards of 50% of your word count in a section just reiterating that you think it's lazy, and this person is awful, and that studio just sucked and didn't know what they were doing, etc.
You've done the same with 'mainstream reviewers', in a way that just comes off as gatekeepy, and ill informed. I will be the FIRST to agree that - especially back in the day - games criticism was a well of garbage a lot of the time. But it's a shallow and frankly silly reading to act like they had ill intent, or didn't care, or were just terrible critics. If you look at the state of the industry, the demographics being most strongly catered to, and the comparative infancy games writing was in at the time (and it's still only really catching its stride), then it makes perfect sense why it was unfortunately not that great back in the day. And I think it's much more productive if you're going to mention it, to highlight the shortcomings of it within that kind of context, instead of just acting like it was a bunch of sh*t made by idiots who don't understand skating or games or whatever, you know? It's also INCREDIBLY important to understand the mindset of those times. A good example for me was how many reviews of late PS1 games heavily criticized them for not looking like PS2 games... something that's obviously impossible to rectify.
But not only was technological understanding in general at a far lower level at that point, it made some sense (even though it's still weak criticism) within the context of how fast 3D visuals were moving at that time. After playing something like FFX, something like THPS3 on PS1 would've felt shockingly outdated, right? When people criticized something like the 'lack of innovation' or whatever in a game like Evolution Skateboarding, you have to remember they didn't have hindsight. They were living in a world where dozens of extreme sports games were coming out every year, for full price. And since they were doing consumer oriented reviews, they had to have some way to differentiate between what might've been worth your money. Doesn't mean they can't be wrong. But it does mean it's kind of unfair to just assume their intentions were bad, or they were stupid people.
You have shown that you are capable of far stronger criticisms than a lot of these ones you've dwelled on in videos lately. And you've also shown that you're capable of making those criticisms sound less needlessly hostile, and more concise. So especially when the likely culprit is staring you in the face (like Page 44 having to develop both the Wii and PS2 ports of Proving Ground, on an old engine, with an obviously low budget, probably a very small studio, and in just a year), it just comes off as silly when you assume there's some extreme level of incompetence going on in the background.
I hope this is helpful in some way, and if you wanna talk about it or games or whatever somewhere, you can hit me up on Discord, or reply to me here with yours and I'll hit you up. Though I understand if instead you think I'm a bit of a butthead, hahaha.
I'm sorry, this is the longest and most in depth video I've done. I did my reasearch. You wanting "far stronger criticisms" is like telling me I'm not working hard enough. If you think my reviews are too shallow, I won't keep you. But I won't change my opinions or style to become an echo chamber for people like you. Opinions don't have to be nice. Calling Page44 lazy is evident. It's been proven that critics take payment to give games better ratings. I'll take criticism about what the video is missing, my audio, whether or not a part of a video was hard to watch, or whether I missed something in game. But comments like this trying to tell me how to think, saying I didn't do enough work on the longest video I've made; I'll just say no and move on.
*edit* After a second read, I really don't know what you want. I put in the work, gave reasons for everything I said, and my descriptor was accurate. I also do all of this for *free*. I wrote a really good review of a game that nobody talks about, which isn't easy. I put the extra work into learning about the writer, and how that writer affected the game. I know how game development works, and coequally I know enough about how every other Tony Hawk game was developed to draw a conclusion. So just because you heard the word "lazy" and thought it was shallow, that doesn't mean it was. All that means is you weren't actually paying attention.
@@RedBerylFTW I'm really sorry you feel that way, because you 'not working hard enough' has nothing to do with what I was saying. I literally suggested that maybe you were working too hard, because your release output is pretty high for the general length-to-quality ratio. I also said in several places and several ways that I think in general your content has been good. You showed up in my Recommended for a reason. And I'll say again that I initially subscribed a few weeks ago, for a reason.
If that somehow translates to me telling you how to think, then maybe you need to step back and try to learn to take criticism a bit better yourself, as someone seemingly so keen to dish it so harshly. My intent was never to tell you what mechanics or design choices to like or dislike. It was never to argue you're a terrible critic or person. I was literally just saying that it would serve your content better if you dialed back the hyperbolic wording, and the amount of time you spent repeating it. What I meant by saying you were capable of 'far stronger criticisms'... is that you've literally SHARED far stronger criticisms ALREADY, in other videos. And hell, even in the videos I've had problems with. I'm not asking you to do better; I'm saying you've DONE better and CAN DO better. You don't NEED to make assumptions and call things 'lazy'. Nor reiterate it so fervently.
To put it bluntly, it is beneath you. If you somehow misconstrue THAT as me in some way suggesting that you're not working hard enough, or your 'thinking' and critique are bad, then you do you, I guess...
"I wrote a really good review of a game that nobody talks about, which isn't easy."
It's true that that's not easy, and it's notable that you'd think I would assume as much, considering I've been making similar content for over 9 years now. A quick glance at my channel would've clued you in on that. I know it's not easy firsthand, and it's even harder when the games you're researching for are so lost to time and the cultural zeitgeist, that information on them is shockingly hard to find. But that's all the more reason to be careful about your wording and assumptions. A genuinely good criticism (which you've provided in most of your points in these videos) doesn't need you to waste time ascribing some ill intent or blame, or anything like that 99% of the time. It speaks for itself.
I really don't blame you for being upset about my comment. And the only thing I think is laughable in your reply is the idea that it's 'been proven' that journalists take money for higher review scores (it hasn't, at least off of TH-cam, because that's not how that industry works; there have been a handful of issues in the past, namely the Kane and Lynch GameSpot thing, but what you're claiming exists... doesn't).
But it sucks in a rather ironic way that your conclusion seems to be that I was calling YOU lazy somehow. I genuinely was hoping to instead find someone to 'talk shop' with; a fellow creator to chat with about games and projects, and learn from and all that. I just also happened to have some mild criticisms that disappointed me, and bugged me personally. So I wanted to give your effort the due it deserved by sharing those criticisms in full... taking my time to share my thoughts as a fellow creator. Heck, I was even planning to just share those criticisms privately instead, if you'd had your Discord or something linked in your About section. But again... you do you...
@@LibraScope I still don't understand what you want. Like I said already, I gave plenty of concise reasons for my wording. I broke down why Page44 was lazy, and critics have been caught in public time and time again taking payments to shift the public perspective in one direction or another. Mainstream critics in general get paid an average of $20 an hour to say whatever the editor tells them to say. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm upset, really I'm not because at the end this changes nothing for me. I'm just genuinely confused. I know you probably think these long comments are getting your point across, but you really aren't giving me anything to work with here.
If you could somehow *disprove* that it was laziness, and you could somehow *disprove* that critics take payment (you literally proved that it happens by pointing out the Kane and Lynch scandal, honestly just ill wording to say it "doesn't exist" when it quite literally does/has and you just acknowledged it), what you're saying would make a lot more sense. If you offered me any real criticism here, I would have taken it. People tell me I'm too loud, or to add things to the description, and I get told about things that I miss or reasons that something might be better than I think. I take those things, they have substance. On all of this, your suggestion doesn't make sense. I'm somehow not doing enough to justify my words, but also somehow working too hard.
My criticism is harsh, and I'll take it harsh in return. But I won't just take it for no reason. If I think you're wrong, I'm going to defend myself, and you've given me no reason to accept your criticism. I do not *have* to accept criticism from *everybody*. You've given me more reason to reject it by making a crucial point for me (e.g. paid critics). I think you really need to take your own criticism. Give the video part you questioned a second watch, and then ask yourself if what you have to say is accurate. This comment is, ironically, a victim of the exact thing you're trying to criticize me for.
@@RedBerylFTW Laziness places a specific type of blame on the one making the product/art/content. As such, the onus is on you to prove that it was laziness. Lemme ask... what proof do you have that the game's shortcomings are due to a lack of effort from the developers, as opposed to... a lack of time, or a lack of resources, a lack of workforce, or budget, or the hubris of an executive in Activision's management, or the complexities of down-porting these assets and the design of the next-gen game to the older tech, or a mismatch between that tech, the platform, and the assets they were given. Maybe it was a memory management issue, or they had to spend so much time prepping the assets so that they could RUN on those lower spec systems, that they didn't have time to do any engine work. Or maybe (most likely) it was a wealth of these complexities combine. Page44 wasn't a person. It was a company. And frankly, the idea of the company as a whole, or even the majority of them being so lazy as to sabotage this product, when it is more than likely the life of their studio and their livelihoods on the line, and when they're more than likely already crunching their butts off... is pretty silly when you really think about it.
You made the claim it was laziness. You backed up your claims of weakness in the game's design. But you didn't have a single shred of proof that the REASON for those faults, was a lack of effort and care. Where is your source? Where are your developer statements? What do you have that isn't just a vague assumption based on feelings you have? Saying "This other game did what they didn't" isn't a reason; it's an excuse. Because no two games are created within the same context... the same environment... with the same problems and constraints. So unless you have insider knowledge that proves there was some laziness epidemic and a substantial amount of people at Page44 weren't working hard enough, you didn't 'prove' it was laziness to any degree. And it makes much more sense to assume that it was due to the difficulties of a small support studio making TWO low budget ports of a game on a different engine and coming from significantly more powerful hardware, in just a year.
As for the whole paid to review thing, your assumptions there are hilariously wrong. But more so, the Kain and Lynch fiasco proves the opposite. Nobody was paid to change anything. Higher ups were worried about it hurting their advertising options. And the reviewer of which the score changes were demanded... quit and went public with it, while he and many others have repeatedly expressed shock at how insanely out of character that was for the industry. He wasn't offered payment to change it. He was threatened with the loss of his job. Occam's Razor suggests that if this was such a common problem, you'd have insiders spilling those beans left and right.
We can absolutely recognize that as a hugely awful incident. And we can absolutely say it was unacceptable. And we can also demand better. We can also complain about other issues with mainstream reviews, like the obsession with still including review scores, or the fact that they're often understaffed but overbooked with reviews, or many other things. But what happened with Kain and Lynch had nothing to do with paid reviews, nor does it suggest an epidemic. It was also well over a decade ago now.
If you want an epidemic of people being paid to review games, TH-cam is where you need to look. Because it is becoming a serious problem HERE... with the amateurs who directly profit from their presentation of that content, and who have very little fear of co-workers turning whistleblower and bringing the whole house down.
@@LibraScope
*edit* Of course it is a specific blame. They specifically produced the worst version of the game. They are to blame because they are the studio that developed it. Seriously, you need to take your own advice and think about what you say.
The proof is in the pudding. The maps were lazily imported with minimal change, and the game was optimized lazily because an inefficient amount of high effort went into other things that were also broken. They spent plenty of time porting things like Aggro Kick and the assets, but they didn't do any *design*. Vicarious visions had the exact same amount of time, and their effort was better. Page 44 was 6 years old and had already worked on one Tony Hawk game prior. I can tell just by listening to you that you really were not paying attention to what I said, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening. The real take was "They were lazy in designing the maps and world, and that was because other mechanics were inefficient and got too much effort." But all you heard was "Lazy" and you already told me why.
Occam's Razor is a lazy way to draw your own conclusion, ironically. Even more ironic than that, writing such a massive comment based on a conclusion that you drew on that principal.
Kane and Lynch *does* prove my point because whether or not that one employee came clean means nothing. People also rat in the mob. That doesn't mean every other member is suddenly going to become a rat. The fact remains that an executive tried to manipulate the ratings, and the story broke to the public. There's also the issue of press parties, testing events, and conventions where companies invite critics with expenses and commodities paid just to sway opinions. It's not directly monetary compensation, but it's effectively the same thing. More effective, actually.
You're right, there is a problem with TH-cam critics. That's exactly why I'm doing what I'm doing. No red arrows in the thumbnail, no clickbait expression. No donations or super chats or memberships. No ad revenue because I use copyrighted music. No Patreon. No sponsorships. No merchandise. That gives me the freedom to tell the truth, instead of bowing to the current cultural narrative just for views.
I've noticed you've got the ghosting from emulating Tony Hawk games in pcsx2. You can fix these in all the games by enabling HW Hacks and ticking Wild Arms offset. Setting texture offset to X = 75 and Y = 150.
That's huge thank you :0
@@RedBerylFTWno problem keep pumping out good content
The only version I've played to this day is the DS version.. guess I'll try it on a better suited console lol
This game came with a GH3 demo if you had Xbox 360 version.
I have a copy and a guitar, I'll have to take a look at that :0
I did play this game on the ps2 back in the days. Do I understand well that I will be amazed if I give the Ps3 version a shot?
Night and day. If you already didn't like Project 8 on PS3, you might not like it. But if you did like P8 or you don't mind the new body flip system, then yeah you'll probably have a great time.
@@RedBerylFTW Then I totally will play it 😀
Because of your videos I've revisit a lot old Tony Hawk games and learned about great other games I never knew about.
Thanks a lot, you're awesome dude 🙏
@@raphaeldullaert2426 FWIW I first played the PS2 version and then tried the PS3 version and only found it marginally better... not exactly night and day but definitely better
@@hhgreg2969 allright, thanks.
aggro kick killed the series, this game might have been good if you didn't constantly blast through everything at 100km/h
Big disagree. Robomodo killed the series.
You're pushing Mongo in the Skate footage at the beginning of the video. Cwinge. Lol
Watching too much 70s footage lately. In 1974, everybody was pushing mongo, and it looks even weirder
Am I the only one who things the ps2 version looks better? xD
Tony Hawk's Aggro Kick. The grey game.
Oh man, the ps2 footage is rough. Is PCSX2 doing this? Are there no fixes on the Wiki? On the console it's not like this graphically and I don't remember framerate issues.
Proving Ground may be functional better, but it's forgettable all around. I played it through. The ps3/360 version and ps2 versions. But I can't remember anything from the story because it's that forgettable. As I said, it evolved from Project 8's bad writing and made it even worse and Nail the sh*t is still the worst thing. Aggro Kick is the only good thing about the last 2 Neversoft TH games. And even the PS2 port textures look better than the grey counterpart.
And there is one thing that makes it far different from the others (at least here). It got dubbed. THPS3 was the last game that was dubbed in German until this (and 1+2). Maybe it was so bad that the story was even worse because of it xD
The blur issue is PCSX2 upscaling. I think turning the texture blending to ultra fixes it, but nothing fixes the framerate. I actually do remember having a similar framerate back in the day on my fat ps2. The Baltimore areas especially are brutal.
Physics and mechanics were clunky and awful, graphics were't the worst but the artistic and colour design was horrendous.. I can't really think of anything good for me personally about either P8 or PG, Tony Hawk games died for me after American Wasteland. I grew up with THPS3/THPS4, THUG/THUG2 and THAW, if they had of kept that engine and just made new HD visuals for the new systems at the time I probably would think different about these games.
Not that it's connected, but seeing you mongo push at the start in the Skate gameplay is hard to watch ngl.
loooots of what you said abt game dev just. isn’t true. rly puts a hamper on rightful criticisms with the “i know more than you” tone
Ironic that you came in here telling me I was wrong without providing any further elaboration. You're doing the exact thing you're complaining about.
@@RedBerylFTW yeah cause i left a comment not a long ass youtube video where i shit talk a dev for half of it
Sounds personal. Are you the dev I was shit talking? That would be hysterical.
*edit* That question is rhetorical. I really don't care what you have to say. You're a literal nobody who has said nothing of value.
No Girls Allowed..
THAW: At least you can create one for free skate and classic mode.
THP8: At least create a girl is PS3 and XBOX 360 exclusive.
18:00 "... inefficient and stupid." 🤣