How Bad Was Shaggy X Velma?
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Scooby is really unlikeable in this situation, he made a big stink when Shaggy get a girlfriend, but when he get one it's a okay
I recall the days when people shipped Daphne with Scooby.
It's real and disgusting.
Scooby is a dog , that’s pretty spot on for his species at times ( my first dog acted very jealous whenever my friends interacted with me.)
Seriously
parasocial relationships are a pain ain't it
HE'S A DOG! This is a natural dog response to get jealous!
One of the constants in the Scooby Doo franchise is that Shaggy is always the one who gets all the women
He didn't get that PHD from Trump University
Which honestly makes no sense especially when you compare him to Fred
@micah459 I mean everybody has their type.Not to mention something about a dude who is always himself no matter the situation is cool
And he does it, without even trying. It honestly feels like a superpower, at this point.
Him and Velma's sister make a better couple. And even Scooby liked her.
The whole shaggy, scooby and Velma triangle was the weirdest and most forced thing in the show. Idk why the writers had to make Scooby and Velma fight over shaggy’s attention. I guess they thought that instead of two girls fighting over shaggy that it would be funnier if shaggy was gettin fought over by his girlfriend and his dog 😭
At least it's more original than two girls fighting over a man.
Right?? Like Scooby isn’t a clingy ex. He would be overjoyed if Shaggy got a girlfriend.
@@nervousbreakdown711Not in Mystery Inc. He was clingy af. Then again the show also implied that Shaggy and Fred dated at some point. The Freddie scene.
@@nervousbreakdown711 but he is still a dog, and dogs can be quite territorial when it comes to their owners.
Scooby is an intelligent dog. It stops being cute when Scooby acted like Shaggy was a bro who broke the bro code. Like you're not even human! @@valentinkambushev4968
Shaggy couldn't let himself fall in love with a mortal woman so he had to dump her to protect her from himself knowing she will die if she were conceive a demigod child.
I was looking for a coment like this😂
Like, this is, only 1% of my power Scoob.
Why do you think his greatest love story is with an alien.
That and Velma is gay as hell
ShaggyXGoogie (Shaggoo), OTP
Honestly, I am more forgiving of this ship because it was never meant to be good. It was intentionally written badly, unlike many other bad ships. The fact that they are teenagers also helps. I have always been more forgiving of messy teenage relationships (Baby Batcat, for example).
Same, as annoying as the shenanigans this ship was I do still love how the show handled it
Another Gotham fan in the wild? Yeah, Selina and Bruce in that show are complicated ship. Still don't like them replacing Selina's actress in the finale.
@@kidanarchy2105They replaced her to make her look older. The actress also didn’t want to play herself older for some reason.
Baby BatCat honestly justified whatever relationship Bruce and Selina have in the comics and cartoons to me because instead of simply having a sexualized thrill of the chase dynamic it set up a loyal friendship between them. I especially love that line when she tells Bruce near the finale that she’ll be there for him whenever he needs her.
@@spectralight8412 I think Long Halloween has the best BatCat dynamic in the comics. It's a lot more than the thrill of the chase.
the main problem was the romance in Mystery Inc. In other iterations, scooby was always happy for Shaggy getting a girlfriend, and who wouldn't blame him (he's an animal lover, some versions rich, a great cook, can eat so much yet stay so thin, despite being a coward would still face dangers) in the movie he when he was dating mary jane he wasn't jealous just worried because she was a monster. also, scooby's second favorite person is Velma in a pup named scooby doo
not excusing scooby, but I think it’s a bit different shaggy dating a girl outside of the group compared to one inside the group- the group is together all the time so there’s not many breaks in the time shaggy and scooby get to spend together when there’s a relationship added to the mix
He didn't like her even before he found out she was possessed. Probably because, being a dog, he smelt something off about her. Dogs usually get defensive when smell something off.
Shipping the characters together is why I refused to watch this series in the first place. Just let men & women be friends & let the fans ship in their own heads.
@@LikaLaruku I went into the show blind and was a bit put off by it. That being said, I didn't *mind* it, because it was honestly a different take on Mystery Inc (in a series, vs a movie) as a whole, which has been done and redone so many different times. But... I wouldn't have minded just friendships, once again.
3rd favorite person. It's was explicitly stated that his second favorite person was Shaggy's baby sister.
Ironically the original writers in the 60’s implied Velma and shaggy to be together. However people thought that Fred and Daphne were a couple because they were the hot ones and thought they were hooking up when they went looking for clues. But the writers said no we just find them boring and Velma, Shaggy and Scooby were most interesting
Damn 😂
They’re not wrong
I remember that!~ 🥺
That actually makes sense
Wrong. In the 80s, everyone thpught Fred was gay.
Scooby was a total jerk when it came to Shaggy and Velma dating. The episodes with him pitching a fit over them being together made me really annoyed by him.
It's probably the most realistically dog thing he's ever done honestly. Dogs can get very jealous and overly-sensitive
@@MrXemnas1992Cats act like you married them more than dogs. Dogs it depends on he breed.
Or that time he gave Shaggy the cold shoulder because he went to the prom with Velma instead of staying home watching a stupid horror movie marathon with him. He even started talking to a puppet.
Because it was a bad relationship
If you have a pet it’s normal like if you got another pet and spend even a minute with the new one the og pet will despise it.
Man, one of my favorite takes ever was someone on Tumblr pointing out that, during a special, Elvira(?) (Don't quote me bad with names) Was like HEY NERDS!! And they ALL turned around- and she was like 'WOW you ALL turned? OK.'
They are, all, canonically MASSIVE nerds. Daphne and Fred might be pretty but they're just as big of freaks as the rest of the gang. Fred has a weird trap fetish and lives in a van and Daphne's an aspiring mystery novelist who's INTO the van-guy. None of these people are normal and I love them for it.
Fucking TRUUUUUUUE!
Yes,they are all nerds even though Daphne and Fred seem like a jock and a cheerleader couple
@@BeaAdelineManlangitIronically enough, apparently Shaggys canonically the jock of the group cuz he was apart of track and field in their highschool days in the first iteration of scooby doo.
You might be able to convince me that Fred enjoys a good TableTop session but Daphne, neh, she's a social butterfly, she don't got time for that nerd shit. And no, watching Marvel movies doesn't make you a nerd, it just makes you the lowest common denominator.
@@RenoRebornDaphne travels around in a van to solve mysteries as a teenage amateur detective with nerdy friends and a dog. She's nerd-adjacent. She's just well-socialized and fashionable.
She would go to a gala, but she would also ditch said gala to chase a man in a fish suit through an abandoned amusement park in her gown and heels with her nerdy friends and dog.
She would also probably use her mascara case mirror to blind a perpetrator and escape an underground prison based on which way her hair was blowing. If you're around nerds long enough, get along with them, and sometimes act like them, you would probably turn around with your nerdy friend group too.
The Mystery Gang members sometimes remind me of Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. Nancy wasn't conventionally nerdy, but she definitely appealed to nerds.
It is SUCH a breath of fresh air to see someone take a calm stance on a problematic relationship. The general vibe of the internet has been such a witch hunt seeing "here's where she went wrong and where he went wrong. And why it WOULD have been jusitifed but goes too far" instead of the typical "Someone showed an emotion for half a second and they're not mature enough for the basic human need of companionship"
Honestly that's why I love this chanel. Most of the ships I like in media are problematic in some way (at least for the twitter standarts) but that's what makes them so interesting to me.
hell even in this same comment section there a ton of comments with hundreds of likes playing the "blaming game". This channel was truly a blessing from the algorithm
@@kaisim980 Shaggy and Velma both made mistakes, Shaggy doesn't seem to care about how Velma feels, while also making her feel like he's ashamed to be with her. While Velma is trying to change Shaggy, and she makes him afraid to tell her how he feels about things.
Scooby doo also made things harder, but I forgive him because he's a dog.
Velma's a Train Wreck, because Shaggy never took the time to put down the train tracks, too busy playing with his dog.
Well being closeted doesn't help.
Tbh it's an equally bad problem on both sides
Yeah, I usually took her side in this debacle
Worse, this love triangle character assassinated Scooby.
@@ThePorpoisepower I mean sure, but this still applies even if she was just straight. Velma was overreaching because she didn't get set any borders.
Real talk, if anyone in your life - male, female, romantic interest, platonic friend, employer, family member - gives you an ultimatum to choose either them or someone/thing else you love in your life: always choose the someone/thing else. Because the moment you choose the person giving the ultimatum, you're giving them control over who/what you associate with outside of them, and in real life, it's very unlikely for such ultimatums to be one-time occurrences. That's how abusers cut their victims off from their support systems, and it is as red a flag as you can have waved in your face.
99% of the time I agree. But sometimes you need to hear an ultimatum like that over something like alchohol/gambling.
@@kyleellis1825 True, there are always exceptions. What I said mostly holds for things that are not harming yourself or anyone else.
@@Nyahahameha Yeah and I agree with that sentiment. I'm just worried when I hear absolutes.
@@kyleellis1825 Honestly, I'm usually the same way. Thanks for the correction. :)
Scooby is a dog-don’t forget that simply because he can talk. He doesn’t really have anyone else but Shaggy because he’s Shaggy’s dog. Its natural for him to be jealous that Shaggy is no longer spending as much time with him, just as it’s natural for any dog to get upset when their owner is spending less time with them.
What wasn’t cool was Shaggy giving in to Scooby’s demands. He should’ve told Scooby that he still spends plenty of time with him and that he needs to get over it. Instead, he gave in.
Tbh, I never thought of Shaggy and Velma as an ideal couple. If anything his real love and forever partner is Crystal. Now she’s who Shaggy should be with.
I would have loved if, in "Mystery Incorporated", they referenced Crystal. Shaggy had the love of his life, flat out leave through no fault of his own. Pair that with Velma's first romantic relationship (with or without her being LGBT)... and the teenage drama practically writes itself.
-----
Or the creators of Scooby Doo material should make a movie where Crystal comes back. I would hijack an armored vehicle to fund that movie.
@@onijester56 I feel ya man. I’d love that too. But WB is on crack now so sadly I doubt it. Would’ve been awesome tho.
I love how even as a CHILD, this relationship felt odd
Bro same😭
I kinda forgot this ship was a thing in Mystery Incorporated because everything else took my attention.
Not to mention that after it ended, it was rarely mentioned.
@@valentinkambushev4968It ended right at the time social media was starting to be picked up by everyone, 2.5 style. 2012ish? What's Up and Messenger were starting to become a thing? So it got off the radar.
@@valentinkambushev4968 I think was it. It does get mentioned by Velma offhandedly, but Mystery Inc. Velma was at her most savage. Everyone was catching straight heat whenever she was on the scene. Everything else, from the mystery of the day to the overarching plot with the disk, the series was so jam packed that when they dropped this ship it REALLY fell off.
Not to mention, Freddy and Daphne also had shipping drama, but this show finally gave Fred such an engaging (himbo) personality that it was tolerable and even became part of the hijinks.
Why they were even a thing? All i renember is Velma forcing Shaggy to be her boyfriend, like what?
You know a show is actually good when it's biggest flaw is just brushed aside and generally forgotten
Scooby being jealous was stupid as hell; but man, what has gotten into Velma too? Being so jealous and a control freak? And who makes you choose between you and your dog/best friend; that was a huge red flag
Velma was basically making shaggy choose between his new girlfriend and his adopted special needs child.
Everyone was wrong here
Everyone was harmed
@@kyleellis1825 Man, as a disabled person, I fucking hate the term “special needs”, that shit sounds so fucking infantilising.
@@thefallencore3 and as one myself, I far prefer it to the other terms. I'm still able to do most things, I just have special needs in getting them done.
All the girls flock to shaggy cause they Sense he has a high power lvl.
The ladies love power levels.
this just makes me think of Dingo's Scoob and Shag comic
Man Could Pull Abella Danger With 1% Of His Power.
"are you cheating on me" wow Scooby like wow
Scooby’s gay?!
I really liked how they tried this, i thought it was a great example of friends shouldn’t always date. And you can be friends but not compatible in every way. They tried dating it didn’t work, it was awkward for a bit then they got over it and moved on to find a person who was a better fit
And we see them in a relationship FIRST, then we see them as friends. So we don't have to spend whole episodes cringing at how they're ruining their friendship. We just jump to them making things better
I thought that the way Velma tried to change Shaggy into the man she thought suited her ideals, and it backfired badly.
Changing a man into someone else to fit another person's standard just screams.."I can't accept them as themselves.".
Change can be good, like making a suggestion here or there.
I should stop before this becomes an essay.
Well yeah, she didn't know she was lesbian
@@disgustof-riley8338 I am so sick of this lie being regurgitated. Velma was not a lesbian in the show nor was she ever in the past shows movies.
@@zSteve1231 I always thought she was aroace or bi
@@tega8404 Bi, I understand since she been Queer washed in modern shows since the studios need one LBGT character in a show, but aroace? She always had a least one crush on a guy in previous shows.
@@zSteve1231The producer confirmed she was in mystery inc, why does your word on the matter supersede theirs? She was also shown having interest in Marcie, and the writers intentionally alluded to their mutual interest despite them not saying it plainly.
I swear the people who use the lack of on screen verbal confirmation as proof that it never existed are intentionally overlooking how difficult it is to air media, especially media aimed at a younger audience, with explicitly queer characters.
The writers did their best to allude to it, and confirmed it in interviews that it was intentional. This version of Velma was written to be a lesbian, it doesn't retroactively change the past Velma, but that is how she is canonically in this show.
Hotdog water and Velma should get a vid ngl
SECONDED!
Why the fuck is her name "Hotdog Water"? 🤮
Thirded
Way more healthier!
Real
I feel that, at the end of the day, those two aren’t made for various other for various of reasons
Velma, while does care for Shaggy, clearly wants to date someone who’s completely different. She doesn’t like how he said “like” and doesn’t like his pants. Yes him eating healthy is important, but it’s clear his metabolism is far different from a human. Daphne, while having her own issues, does love everything about Fred, she just wished he’s better with people and their emotions (most likely a case of his implied autism)
Shaggy, on the other hand, is very clearly not ready for a relationship and at time, doesn’t feel comfortable about being in public about it. He’s a good guy, but he’s very passive (which might hint that’s how he ended up in a relationship with Velma because he couldn’t say no) and needed to put his foot down against Scooby and let him know that he does love him, but need to spend some time apart to be with Velma
Scooby we have to understand that at the end, he’s a dog and dog tends to get possessive and upset when their owners shows affection to someone else. Calling it “cheating” for them.
At the end, it shows how messy relationship can be at that age but at least they became better as friends as soon as they buried the hatchet about the break up
Mindy Kaling: *sees how Velma behaves around Shaggy* this is how I want.her character to be written!
I remember the creator of the show saying that shaggy was Velmas beard.😊
In this show. I shudder recalling one older show being very Daphne X Shaggy. Sacrilege thinking about it.
@@falconeshield Then there's the library episode of Mystery incorporated.
@@falconeshield honestly if we have to pair the whole group together into two straight couples I’d go with Shaggy & Daphne and Fred & Velma for the sake of something different and more interesting.
@@oreotaku4017We've had Shaggy X Daphne already but the show was shortlived. Fred X Velma was never done, and Velma X Daphne shippers have their caveat in the worst medium possible.
Yeah Marshy (hotdog water) was a exgirlfriend of her but at the end of the show they begane to date again (they weren't aloud to be open gay because the show was made even earlier then adventure time and the show was only aloud to be gay at the end of last season)
Scooby: “Are you cheating on me?”
Shaggy: “It Wasn’t me”
they even got them on camera!
Velma in the relationship was not just toxic, but abusive as well. I mean, Shaggy TRIED to please her and it was never enough, forget the weird dynamic with scooby, if scooby wasn't in the picture the only difference in the relationship would be that the whole gang would know and maybe call velma out on her bullshit. in this series, Velma is book smart and able to understand certain things that help her solve the mysteries they run into... BUT as a highschool girl, she's too immature to maintain a relationship as serious as she wants it to be, and while yes we can write off her actions as her immaturity that doesn't excuse her actions towards shaggy.
You say that Velma getting mad over Shaggy picking Scooby over her is understandable, but Scooby is supposedly Velma’s friend, too. He’s not just a pet. He’s an essential part of Mystery Inc. Saying he’s just a dog is VERY insulting.
Well he sure wasn't like her friend! His first reaction to them dating wasn't "hey congratulations I'm so happy for you", it was "are you _cheating_ on me?" Forcing her to compete for relationship, but when Shaggy falls for a random girl suddenly he's the ultimate wingman.
@@DDarkestKnight I think Velma constantly downplaying Scooby into an animal is what causes Scooby to hate her so much. Velma is kinda being a bit racist to Scooby the whole show. Scooby is cognizant and completely and totally emotionally aware and Velma keeps treating him as “the dog”
@@venomouskoala0690Fair enough. But that doesn't mean Scooby should take his anger out on Shaggy. Shaggy's the victim.
Honestly that was my interpretation of it like Velma constantly treated Scooby as just a pet and not shaggy’s best friend also she was constantly trying to change shaggy into something he wasn’t it’s understandable for Scooby to not like them dating even if he went overboard ships were really the only problem with mystery inc personally felt like shaggy/daphne would have worked better in this interpretation that’s just me though
@@venomouskoala0690 Bull. Because he doesn't even hate her he just gets weirdly jealous and territorial when she tries to date Shaggy. Like she's the other love interest and his rival, in the "you can't love him like I do" kind of way. If Shaggy acted like Scooby did when he dates Nova that would be *weird* . Probably weirder.
There's no sense of racism here Scooby is a dog. It doesn't matter if he can speak perfect English now he's still classified as a pet and her feelings shouldn't be coming in 2nd to his.
Shaggy x Velma is basically exactly how my first relationship went, that's how I know the writers are good at writing teenagers
The thing is, generally speaking irl, the right thing to do when choosing "the dog or me" is the dog. But since this is a cartoon world with an intelligent dog that should know when to step back, it's different.
I agree that's big ol 🚩for me. They're called "mans best friend for a reason", a real partner would understand the connection they have with their dog, had it be me, Velma would be single so quick.
She wasnt saying "the dog or me" just because she doesnt like dogs. She said it because Shaggy made it clear that he either will not or cannot be fair and attentive to both of them at the same time. The idea that anyone should always choose the dog, sentient or not, context be damned, is just not right.
Someone who forces their partner to choose between them and the dog out of greed or jealousy is someone who is not worth being in a relationship with. But if the reason they gave this ultimatum is because their partner kept stringing them along, claiming they want to be in a relationship but then neglecting them and even hiding their love for the sake of a dog? Yeah the ultimatum would be justified.
@@botanicalitus4194 Did I not already imply all that?? I just said IN GENERAL IRL, usually it's smart to pick the dog. NOT in-show.
@@imnotwhatiseem1727 They're specifically not talking about the show but questioning the basis on the dog always being right. Situations are nuanced and in SOME situations there can be an extreme reached where it's needed to make them realize where the priorities lie.
An intelligent dog with no human rights and is entirely dependent on Shaggy and whoever he marries? Velma has proven in this version of the show that she considers Scooby as little more than a pet and not like an intelligent member of the gang. She's frankyl speciest towards him for 2 seasons. Scooby was being rational is his defense of his home and knew he would lose all rights as an intelligent being if Velma moved in.
Daphne and Fred next please ❤❤❤❤
AKA the most "yes i like Vanilla" ship on CN
Hopefully It Comes
Agree. It would be interesting to see his perspective on these two.
The most “nothing” cartoon couple ever
@@alysssabearYou've never heard of BamBam x Pebbles? They had their wacky races era cartoon but everyone remembers the 90s movies.
As a child I shipped Velma and Shaggy so hard! But now it's meh. Velma would be better with somone stable and has shared interests with. And Shaggy just needs someone go with the flow and chill. But I do appreciate the Velma and Shaggy friendship.
Same
I'm not saying that Velma wasn't being a control freak or that Shaggy wasn't being indecisive. But something that I want to point out (and that people usually overlook) is that Mystery Inc changed Shaggy's character quite a bit compared to previous versions. Specifically when it comes to his social skills. Mystery Inc Shaggy is significantly more shy and socially awkward than previous versions of his character that, despite being a coward, were still very friendly, social and even could be seen as a bit of a jokester to an extent in his dialogues. Basically, previous versions of Shaggy could (and in some cases even wanted) to be in a relationship.
Velma was also changed a lot. She was made more sarcastic and acted more like a normal teenager with a short fuse due to her intelligence making her less patient with others.
That being said, Velma was smart enough to at some point notice that she was probably doing something wrong. But she asked Daphne for advice and she gave her a terrible one.
Maybe if that wouldn't have happened, the relationship could've changed for the better and eventually work.
Just finished watching a reaction to a Velma episode, and this is a perfect vid to appear just after that travesty I had to endure.
Stop watching Velma. Let it die.
There’s nothing scarier than an aggressive nerd.
Shaggy is straight up a malnourished Demi god bro, that’s why he eats restaurants worth of food and still built like uncooked pasta. Scooby is…idk man a mutant maybe
Scooby is an Alien in some iterations.
Scooby was a jerk, and Velma was being strung along by shaggy and then simultaneously neglected and disrespected by him. That doesnt make her actions right but Shaggy is equally to blame as her, it sucks that everyone just ragged on Velma
What is not of equal blame
Scooby is a dog, less than 10 years old, and has never gotten proper behvaiorial training on his emotions in the way a human should have.
Scooby is basically a special needs child and Velma is a genius... supposedly.
Scooby is a dog. Talking or not, he is still a dog. Dogs can be jealous, obviously clingy and possessive all the time. It's not new behavior. And Velma treated Scooby so badly, there is no excuse for constantly brushing him aside as if he isn't important. I don't blame Shaggy for choosing Scooby over her, of course he would. I would too.
So happy to see you covering this, it was honestly my fav version of scooby doo.
The ship could work and well, its just the show never intended it to and it was basically set up to fail from the start with some rather out of character and kinda bad writing.
Especially for Scooby. At that point if they hate their own coupling so much I'd prefer a show just doesn't do it unless its to make a point about toxic relationships but these characters have to remain friends after to keep the theme of the show going so it all felt like wasting our time. Sometimes it felt more the writers had a vendetta against people they imagined shipping those two and just wanted to destroy it on screen.
Its honestly sad because its a relationship that could have been genuinely explored and exposed more aspects of both characters. Shaggy lives in the moment, Velma overthinks and worries, its a good combo to make both characters adopt new aspects from each other, even if it ultimately doesn't work out the whole thing didn't need to feel so negative. Never been a fan of "doomed from the start" because they always dismiss the idea that relationships can work but takes work and growing an understanding and instead just feels like wasting the audiences time because no matter what happens in between they already have their conclusion telegraphed to everyone.
Exactly ✨you said everything 👏👏
First thought: Shaggy x Velma is not a bad ship in the Scooby Doo franchise but not a good ship. Most of the old shows do not really have that many moments with the two acting with any romantic emotions between the two and they are mostly shipped because Fred and Daphne are together. However, I see their relationship as a brother and sister more than romantic especially after Mystery incorporated. Shaggy has game and throughout the franchise Shaggy is conically the character who has been laid the most. Velma is only recently since the 2010s began to move from a mostly asexual character to a lesbian character which has been the head cannon for her since the 1990s. Personally I think Velma turned into a lesbian because every guy she had a crushed on turned out to be evil. /hj
Thoughts after the video:
Fred and Daphne don't get involved until the 90's and the live action movie/zombie island/johnny bravo crossover. It was Daphne/Shaggy in the original run and by 13 ghosts of scooby doo, they were almost married. It was only changed back to friends at the last minute. That's why Flim Flam is around, he was supposed to be the kid they essentially adopted.
Even as a kid,it never made sense to me beyond pairing the spares
Come on y’all, everyone here knows that Crystal is Shaggy’s soul mate, and she is going to come back to him once they finally make Alien Invaders 2.
24 years and still waiting 😭
Velma and Johnny is always best ship 🚢
This is everyone’s first introduction to comphet, ain’t it?
Let Shaggy be ace and Velma be a lesbian. Let them be queer besties!
@@nervousbreakdown711I'm still waiting for either Fred or Daphne to be canonically bi so then Ace?Shag can form the invisible fence joke in visual form. *And it works*
(Basically the ace carrying the bi on their back. Ace people are commonly said to be on the fence while bis get ignored unless they're rich. Make a joke that the villian doesn't see them as they hide in a corner and the joke lands)
@@nervousbreakdown711I love that take actually
@@falconeshield They'd make Daphne bi because writing a man that openly likes men is still a no-no.
Should have let her date Marcie (Hot Dog Water) from the beginning but the network were cowards
At least Classic Velma is finally canonically gay after 60 years.
@@falconeshield Not really classic Velma
@@YungandRekless545In the recent movie when she crushed hard on the villain making the costumes, that's Classic Velma.
I would have liked Velma to have a redemption arch & then getting with the nerd girl from hot dog water.
@@falconeshieldWhy do you say "finally" like she wasn't gay out of nowhere
I don't understand the hate towards "conventional" ships. Some things are conventional because those work.
Same, I shipped Daphne and Fred so much. Them vaguely fitting into a conventional ship and calling them that waters dkwn their character. Fred isn't just the jock, he's smart in a trap-sy way, is the leader and has a quite interesting story regarding his parents and their connection to the previous mystery inc. Same way that Daphne is way more than the pretty girl.
Daphne and Fred was a lot more than just the jock and pretty girl. And thats what makes conventional ships work because characers should be 3 dimensional making the ship different to other ships in other fandoms that may also follow the jock and pretty girl trope.
I LITERALLY thought yesterday that you should do this couple and this show next, and HERE WE ARE
What are next week's lotto numbers, I'm uh _testing a hypothesis_ let's go with that.
The worst part of Mystery Inc. the love triangles between Shaggy, Velma, and Scooby was bad!
And this is why no one hardly ships these 2. (EVEN before the show), because Shaggy and Velma kinda didn't have much chemistry together. That's why they almost always had love interests for Shaggy and Velma in the movies! 💔
Mystery Inc was good but people forget: it was still a cartoon made for kids.
Even worse, this love triangle completely character assassinated Scooby.
I can agree. This ruins the characters in so many ways. It's best to give them other people to fall for instead of each other.
He's a dog
They get jealous
That's the most dog like thing he can do@@kidprime6863
This relationship is honestly the most frustrating part of revisiting this otherwise amazing show. I absolutely do not like Velma’s characterization and how she treated Shaggy here. The cute lesbian antics doesn’t justify her behavior. 😭
Oh hey lmtfc didn't expect you here.
Bro, it isn’t lesbian if she’s also attracted to guys.
@@Doomzdeh bi
"This man did choose a dog over her" W shaggy, i will always choose my pets
How many times did Scooby save him over the years and how many times did Velma and the others leave Shaggy and a dog to explore the most dangerous spots alone?
😎💯🐶
I really wished we got Velma and Marcie, they were PERFECT together
I was thinking this too, like Velma always pushing herself onto shaggy sometimes seems to controlling when shaggy just want space and seem uninterested ,like just stay friends.
Shaggy and Crystal were the best. I really wanted them to be together as a kid. They were meant for eachother. If she and her dog were added to the gang it would've added a cool perspective to the show.
shaggy felt soooo arospec in mystery inc i kinda wish they explored that route rather than it just being him not being ready (especially since this doesnt feel like the case bc he pursues another girl after they break up)
I think Jello Apocalypse said it best "The problem about this doomed to fail relationship is its not fun to watch" as in yeah that's exactly the case.
The best version of the Scooby gang was in the Venture Brothers lol.
Best parody, sure.
velma is very relatable for me. i never got so controlling but i didnt read the room and could easily have been confused with mallicious and some of that still haunts me from time to time. you know growing up sucks.
I have a feeling we’re about to get a Velma-Hot Dog Water episode next.
Finish the video
In my personal opinion, I feel like this relationship is the prime example of teenagers being dumb, making mistakes, and learning from them. Sure, this relationship looks bad through the lens of a full-grown, fully-developed, adult, but teenagers are still growing and maturing. Hence, it's only natural for them to mess up a relationship. I feel like were expecting too much when it comes to teenagers being able to make sound decisions when in a relationship.
Mystery Incorporated was the incarnation I grew up with and So did my siblings. And It scared the Heck out of me as a child.
I was so confused on how they even got together/hooked up cause clearly u can see they have different wants in the relationship, Velma more romantic and Shaggy more laid back, like how did Velma at least not see that she wasn't compatible with him, i get the possible pressure she felt about feeling like she may never have a love interest or something as well as pontential questioning of herself (as in the end some speculate her and Hotdog Water may be in a relationship/like eachother ) but JESUS
2:45
It’s funny how you said “when you know what’s attractive in the 70s” relating to shaggy because he historically gets play in a lot of instances LOL. The girls can’t get enough of him
Ngl to you if I was just dating someone recently, and they said "Me or your beloved pet who brings you so much joy and is part of the family" I would have picked the pet.
Especially if they can talk lmao
Yeah like, sorry but an animal relies on you, for basic care and affection. A break up is hard, but being abandoned by the person you've dedicated your life to would be worse. Especially if it can talk and tells you you're their best friend.
35:38 um no. I prefer him being a secondary antagonist and a redeemable one cause it shows that he actually loves Freddy as his own child, and I love the bird as the main villain
See I like that they tried if only to go 'these two don't work as anything more than friends. As you said it was written to intentionally not work vs 'this totally works' and more red flags than China. It was a fun trainwreck and I'm glad they remained friends after, if only to show it's possible to BE friends after a breakup. that's as an important lesson as everything else.
As for 'scooby was a jerk' dogs are like that when a social situation changes. For them suddenly they get leapfrogged by someone/something else and don't understand. So they just want the new thing to go away.
Despite how obviously worse Velma (the show) is than this, I still find this horribly executed pairing to be more offensive. Shaggy is a very likeable character, and Velma is probably the character the majority of modern fans have the hots for. So them being together would allow the fans to both be happy for Shaggy, and be down bad for Velma dating moments. So why did they deliberately make this pairing an absolute shitshow on purpose is a mystery to me. It was obviously not an accidental thing or "bad writing". They very clearly wanted this pairing to be seen as abusive and unhealthy and just a bad time in general. So freaking *why*
Apparently they wanted Velma to be sesbian and they were not allowed, guess someone got petty about it.
Just because their developments are realistic doesn't mean they're fun to watch. If I wanted to watch relationship drama, I'd put on a CW show. This is SCOOBY DOO, not Dawson's Creek. Kids watch it for creepy monsters and a funny talking dog, not all this.
Counter point, scooby is shaggies best friend and in some cases his child. The argument that he should 'essentially stop prioritizing his child and focus on his girlfriend' is a bit disingenuous.
Also, it kind of comes off that Velma is Shaggy's first romantic relationship. Considering a lot of the story he has had, and in this show having uncaring parents, he has no idea how to deal with a person outside of acquaintance and friend based relationships.
Scooby is his dog.
Velma thought she and shaggy would automatically be together because they'd always been in the gang. The idea of being with a guy not in the group was unthinkable. Then, instead of accepting him as is, she tries to change him. 😢
Did you watch the video?
@snowmann. Huh? The what now? 😂
You said it yourself; Velma was a control freak. She didn't like Shaggy as he was, she wanted him to be almost nothing like himself by her own admission. She was toxic. I don't blame Shaggy at all, I'd pick the dog over her too.
And what's worse is that people want to excuse it by saying she acted that way because she was gay. I don't think that I should have to elaborate as to why that doesn't fly, but I'm damn certain that someone is going to try to defend her, because gay, so: Do you mean to imply that toxicity is a normal trait for lesbians, and is therefore fine? If a man was in the closet, and was a controlling dick toward his girlfriend, is he excused because he's attracted to men?
No? Then Velma is 100% toxic, regardless of who she sleeps with. Case closed.
No, Velma being gay makes sense and definitely explains her actions, it doesn’t justify them, but it explains it. She constantly tries to force Shaggy into being the ideal man, because she thinks that then maybe it would work and she’d be actually happy in the relationship, what she doesn’t really see yet is that it can’t work because 1. They’re incompatible and 2. She’s gay so he can never even be her perfect partner to begin with.
Toxicity isn’t a normal trait for lesbians, but her not knowing how to actually act in a relationship with a guy and basing it all on stuff that she has seen on tv and what people tell her, makes total sense with her being gay.
@@thefallencore3 I didn’t say it didn’t make sense, I said her sexuality isn’t an excuse for her being toxic.
Further, notice how you’re trying- very hard - to absolve the character of responsibility for the choices they made. According to you, her toxicity isn’t a character flaw, it’s because she’s gay. She’s not a bad person, who treats people badly, she’s just gay. Because, y’know, that’s just what gay people do. That’s just how you go about things when you’re in the closet, standard ops.
Do you see what I mean? Velma is toxic AND gay. That behavior, that flaw, isn’t just going to disappear the moment she starts clam-jousting with Hotdog Water. And if abuse stats are anything to go by, she’ll probably get a helluva lot worse. STOP. DEFENDING. VELMA. This is not the hill you want to die on.
@@thefallencore3 Velma legit isn’t a lesbian. I don’t care what some writer said after the series already ended. She was getting frisky and passionate with Shaggy. Sure didn’t seem like she was having doubts at the time.
Velma’s personality is very in-control. She likes knowing what she’s talking about, and takes pride in her intelligence. Attributing it to her somehow not actually wanting to jump Shaggy’s bones is ludicrous.
@@thefallencore3 but She's bisexual, not gay, Your argument doesn't make sense.
@@universalpower419 She’s not bisexual though, one of the people on the show said that she’s a lesbian. Just cause she has dated a man before doesn’t mean that she’s bi.
Yeah, that's one of the things that made me not want to watch "Mistery Inc" back in the day. Problematic or doomed relationships can be interesting and even comical to see in cartoons, but in this case it was just uncomfortable.
It’s like the only reason why it’s a hard watch for me. I wouldn’t mind so much if it wasn’t so prominent. Velma’s my favorite character in the show and they had no idea how to write a queer girl
@@nervousbreakdown711She was closeted in the show proper. They just couldn't reveal it.
Ditto
Im trying to watch these dudes unmask a fraudulent ghoul then there is Velma forcing shaggy to wear unbendable pants that nobody uses.
So Velma threatened to tell the whole school that Shaggy picked a dog over her?... Wouldn't that be more embarrassing for Velma?
they gave some hinst that this could get back together, but despite shaggy being honest with her in the end, he still wasn´t treating Velma with attention and caring the same as scooby. But that´s why was so interensting. it was a good example of a couple that could never work, even agisnt the desire of some shippers.
Fellas, never date a girl who makes you choose between you and your life long best friend. Simple as that.
In this context he constantly ghosted his girlfriend to eat junk with food with his friend ,who was petty about thier relationship. Not exactly the same as a partner forcing u to get rid of your pet.
0:09 reading between the lines. That was a fire punch line 🤣
Scooby is not just a dog. He's a sentient dog and a friend.
Yeah, I do find the framing of the fans and even the show that it's weird/insulting for Shaggy to have a closer relationship with Scooby than he does Velma to be...kind of weird?
Like not romantically but what they have is a friendship between two people.
Scooby is the main character of the franchise, is essentially written as a person and they even provide a reason for it to boot. Even compared to other versions of Scooby, MI Scooby is one of the most intelligent, basically written as one of the teenagers. It's weird that when it comes to this situation, suddenly Scooby is "just a pet".
Admittedly I do think the show's writing is a bit amatonormative. Velma's arc and later relationship with Hot Dog Water is really cool, but I was disappointed to hear an interview that described Shaggy as too immature for a romantic relationship. I don't really care whether Shaggy could be AroAce or not, but it is a bit disappointing to hear Being In A Romantic Relationship=Maturity, as if one day it inevitably has to happen.
@@gota7738 I think you're reading too deep into this. "If you're immature your relationships are not going to go well" was the message they wanted to send.
@@mr.cauliflower3536 Oh for sure, I don't think they intended anything more.
I even think the comments about "the dog" is about the inherent joke in framing it as a conventional "love triangle". It just gets weird when the show throws digs at Shaggy for treating Scooby like a person in this situation, while it also recognises Scooby as a person most of the time. It's just a little inconsistency that they probably didn't think about.
As for the amatonormative comment, I definitely don't think that's an intentional statement. However given that obviously did think about heteronormativity to the point of building it into Velma's character arc, it's noticeable to me that they didn't give the same thought to Shaggy's situation. The question of whether Shaggy is only pursuing romance out of social expectation and not out of any desire, and that he may always value platonic friendships over romantic relationships, doesn't seem to have come up in the writing room. Shaggy's failure at romance is treated as a sign of his immaturity that he'll just have to grow out of, as he does try and fail to initiate romantic relationships later, without the closure Velma got.
And I don't think they thought about any of that, but sometimes what you do say and show you've thought about calls attention to what you haven't. Which is fine, it just comes with writing denser and more complicated stories that invite thought.
@@gota7738 He definitely did that out of immaturity. A mature person would face the problems instead of avoiding them. Whether it is because they are not happy with their partner's beheviour, or because they're just not happy with being in a relationship at all, is irrelevant.
@@mr.cauliflower3536 Absolutely! I don't think their relationship would have been written any differently.
My ramble was more promoted by an interview quote that made me reflect on how the Friend vs Romance conflict was framed and what the show's stance was, or wether it had one.
Honestly, the worst part of the ship is how Velma made him choose between her and Scooby. If I were to put this in the context of my life, if my boyfriend asked to choose between him and one of my friends, I'd ask what the fuck was wrong with him. The fact that BOTH Velma and Scooby felt that Shaggy needed to choose between them felt SO weird. You can tell that Velma has no idea what it means to be in a relationship and how to balance between having close friends and having a boyfriend. Honestly. Just thinking about it makes me question life.
Scooby is basically a special needs child. It's more like the new girlfriend asking shaggy to choose between her and the kid.
It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if some executives found out that Velma and Marcie were written to be gay and demanded that they removed her. Like, even if nothing was explicitly said, it sounds like the sorta thing that would happen.
YOU ARE AN INSPIRATION! I love how nuanced you’re take is, I can’t believe how gripping you made this scooby doo relationship video 😂
Holy shit a Mystery Inc vid from you?! Oh my yes! Also holy crap I'd forgotten Velma impersonating Scooby and I'm going to have drink heavily tonight to scrub that once more from my brain
Hotdog Water was endgame, but too girl on girl so bury it.
I think putting a dog over a person is normal, especially if that person gave you an ultimatum
Some one said Scooby not like Velma dating Shaggy was due to him sniffing out the BS Velma was pulling by not comming out of the closet and he didn’t want Shaggy to be crush by Velma who was faking the relationship
Scooby knew Velma would have treated him like a pet and he wasn't okay with that.
This is just legit love this channel to showcase such things
Her being blunt actually fits with her base character she has always been blunt and about being open with whats on her mind.
Before even watching the video, Shaggy looks like he's being harassed.
Man this brought me back, I adored this show growing up it was definitely one of my favorite scooby-doo franchises and I loved the loooong awesome commentary. I've been just chilling with cookies as nostalgia washed over me, also yes, agreed with everything you said this relationship was a mess and 12-year-old me felt awkward at every scene they were together. But I also never hated the characters individually, the show is pretty smart on that aspect at making the audience care for both sides.
I'm really glad this is one of the few shows I've decided to watch more than once, it really helps to watch it when you understand what's going on
Man I actually did dig this into ship in the beginning but WTF where they thinking. At this point I just blame the writers for how toxic this relationship ended up being.
Well now you HAVE to do one about Fred and Daphne 🥹
0:04 I was actually quite fond of most iterations of Velma.
And the crew as a whole... I feel like there was one group I didn't like years ago, but I barely remember.
Could you do a video on the ramshackle pilot or Hilda season three? I love your vids!
I really hope you talk about Fred and daphne as a couple in mistery incorcoprated since I really enjoy there dinamic and journey with there upa and downs of there relationship
Shaggy and Velma was the pairing I thought as a young child when I first saw the show but then when it actually happened I just did *not* want it. =(
Best bit of wisdom in this vid, teenage friendships = validating bad ideas.
Oh, this isn't JelloApocalypse? I figured he would appear anytime someone mentioned Scooby-Doo and just take over the video.
I wish JelloApocalypse would make more videos like his Scooby-Doo video. It was great!
This hurts because shaggy is known as a true chad
I never saw Shaggy as anything but foodsexual, so I couldn't see the Mystery Inc version as happening in the first place.
All the people saying Shaddy is ace, yet here you are, actually understanding Shaggy's true sexuality.
Lowkey hoping for a video on this series as a whole
I just love how sassy she is in this program its absolutely great and funny because she's just so blunt ❤
Mystery Inc content FROM Sarcastic Chorus?? 👀