Zuko X Katara: Explaining Avatar's Most... PASSIONATE Ship
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Who should Zuko Have Ended Up with?
And remember, at the moment, in the comics he’s still technically single🤣
Me 😤
Katara first option obviously!
Jin was second Best though!😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
Kataras def think of the writers really wanted to they could've changed some stuff around to make it work. And if u want to ask who aang should've ended up with if not katara Toph is right their which is actually more accepting in the recent years that Zutara and Taang actually could make sense given some story tweaks. That imo wont ruin the characters or the flow of the story
Katara
Damn, Mai isn't confirmed to be Izumi's grandma yet? It's been 14 years!
Zuko going into a three day coma after doing something good will never cease to make me laugh.
LMAO
hes jut like me after work for real
I wouldn’t call it a coma, and it wasn’t EXACTLY because he did one nice thing that one time.
Funniest part it’s that in the comics he passes out again when he realises he was right while everyone else was wrong xD
It’s hilarious, peak comedy gold imo
LMAOOO EXACTLY THAT WAS SO FUNNY ''will it kill you to be nice?" Zuko: fucking dies
“Zuko had more chemistry with Jin then Mei”
FINALLY someone said what I’ve been saying since season 2.
Bro for real I explained this to my cousin and after he finished the show he was like yeah idk why Zuko and Mei got together there was no chemistry
@@RaspBerryPies I mean I get why mei had the hots for him despite not being a firebender. (Rimshot.)
I mean she was told to do everything or there’d be consequences meanwhile the prince did what he did despite the consequences like being banished and scarred. Ie he was the rebel she couldn’t be and that was enough to get keep her interested.
But zuko… I mean mei is the quintessential firebender elite match so makes sense why he’d try it out since it was expected of him and she wasn’t a complete sociopath.
YES, I wanted them to be a couple so badly!
But Jin didnt know who Zuko was, and she probably wouldbt accept him as a Firelord if they were to meet again.
@@SillyBeans-m1l that’s very true and probably zuko ran off because he knew it wouldn’t work. as Jin was no idiot and probably put two and two together that he was a firebender at least. Based off her visual queues she saw his scar and knew that he mite not believe in the war even if he was a firebender given he clearly got a scar from a different fire bender and was willing to give him a chance but didn’t prod further.
That being said they did have better chemistry. I didn’t say they’d last. But especially given zuko later switch to fight along the avatar I could see her struggling to accept him but coin toss whether or not she’d be able too given what he did before hand…
I just feel that they could have done more to give him and Mai chemistry but romance has always been the weakness of the atla series.
I just kinda realized that June probably called Katara Zuko's girlfriend because she might've known that the necklace was an engagement necklace meanwhile Zuko didn't know and if I'm not mistaken Katara didn't realize the necklace's meaning until after the north pole. it honestly adds more hilarity to the scene.
lol never even noticed love this ship
Ohhhhh, ever thought of it that way 😄😏
Even platonically, Zuko and Katara are one of the strongest relationships in the show. I’ve thought about this for years 😂 both characters shared only a small amount of time with each other yet still their pairing made such an impact on me growing up. They had serious potential
They barely interacted? Lmao
@@FifteenRavensIt’s why it’s exciting to think about their potential. And their few moments of interaction obviously stuck with a lot of people
@@katejoseph6547 Exciting? Sure. Them becoming a couple? Unrealistic.
@@FifteenRavens maybe, maybe not. If you read my comment I said even platonically.
@@FifteenRavensits the fact that they barely interacted and still had one of the best character relationships in the show that makes me laugh. You're right, they barely interacted, and yet, they were literally the most interesting dynamic aside from Zuko and Iroh
Considering the fact that "I will save you from the pirates." started this ship, I think it's fair to say that Zutara is a pirate ship.
Yarrrrrrg
This comment has probably just inspired fanfiction
This is actually really funny
@@meriewanderer honestly that how I think it actually began with that episode
😂😂
In the second half of the show, Zuko and Katara’s interactions were so fantastic that a ship was always going to be formed by the fans even if it didn’t make any sense. Zuko being vulnerable with Katara in the Season 2 finale, Katara threatening Zuko when he eventually joined the team, and the entirety of The Southern Raiders are all some of the best moments of the entire show.
katara threatening zuko is one of the best moments in the shoe? lol
@@highdefinition450enemies to lovers are popular for a reason
The season 2 finale made me permanently bury this ship. HE TRIED TO KILL HER IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT MOM TALK immediately!!!!
@@SSJRadioBluthit goes to show how much he’s grown when he joins the gang and actually has to earn katara’s trust again. it makes zuko’s journey and growth a lot more apparent in how far he’s come and it also shows us that katara might be nice but she’s not stupid. i was so happy that she didn’t immediately trust him no matter how hard he tried at first
@@SSJRadioBluthHe didn't try to kill her, he chose a side. I don't think Zuko ever wanted to kill any of them, just capture Aang for honor. In his heart Zuko always wanted to do the right thing, otherwise we wouldn't have the redemption arc. His attempt to regain Katara's trust and literally SAVE HER LIFE after Azula shows it.
And the worst part is: The writers took all the wrong lessons from this war, and made even bigger messes in their future shows. The Korra disaster and the Voltron disaster all come down to the writers not learning their lesson.
Oh boy, Voltron. Now THAT was queerbait. Poor M|M fans never got their Western YOI
And people still put bryke on a pedestal 😤
@@falconeshieldI relate to this sentiment
Voltron shipping is like the abyss. I don’t know any other show that’s done worse with shipping then that show
@@falconeshieldI don't know what layer of hell you're in but I watched Voltron actively shipping Klance, and them mfs had like 2 seasons together before they never spoke again. People who thought they were endgame were coping HARD.
As a Zutara fan, personally, it wasn’t because the two were the most attractive on the show. For me, it was because of the interesting back stories of the two that could make for a very good storyline. The two have great stubborn personalities that seen together would make for great charisma. The two could easily bounce off eachothers behaviors and would make for great romance just as much as conflict between them, and like real life relationships, they are far from perfect, being rocky and unsteady but for the most part genuine and sweet. I still like the idea souly for the endless opportunities and paths you can take to make these stories work together.
I feel like theh would just end up like Zuko and Mei, toxic. And even though I don't like Zuko and Mei together, it still hinted in the show that he still cared about her. So it was never going to be. Katara and Zuko are both too hot headed, like did you guys forget Katara literally hated Zuko? Yet you want her to be with him because how good he looks? Or because both lose moms, when Zuko's is still alive. So that doesn't even count. And as that would make sense for couples to be together anyway. They're the worse for each other.
Which I don't get why people harp so much on Aang's relationship with Katara. And people make it seem like Katara and Aang was just the hero gets the girl. Like Katara didn't have her own interests as well. Also, the show was base on Aang's story, so it makes sense to see things in his perspective. Even so, they still shows little signs of Katara's feelings. Yes, I'll adimt they had awkward moments but who never did when they were in middle school and high school. It was showing how they were feeling towards other. Also, half of Aang's life was stuck in iceberg, and the other with the monks. So who's going to have again after that? And it showed everything everybody's awkward moments in their relationship. Not just Aang. A realistic thing that happens in young teenage relationships. Katara and Aang were made for each other, they brought out the best in each person. Yeah, she's one year older than him but it's not a huge thing. It's like 16 or 17 to 12, okay. There's real people who have that same age range. It doesn't remove anything in their relationship, so why should it be in these pair.
Katara acted motherly sometimes but that's how she was towards everyone in the group. After losing her mom, she became more mature than the rest at times. Especially living in a war, she grew up quickly same as her brother. So she had take a lot of responsibilities in her village. That didn't Aang wasn't her anchor of wisdom too when she needs it. It's not one sided. Aang gave same support and attention to her. When he defend her when Paku wouldn't train Katara waterbending. Supporting her when she acted as the painted lady. He taught Katara how to have fun again, despite living in a war. Going penguin sliding and just having fun moments together is what developed their growth. And when he was going through emotional moments, she was there to help him through. Then, Aang did the same towards her with Katara's mom scene and other situations. Not wanting her to go on a dark path and destroy the good within her.
What did really Zuko bring towards her? Other than agreed with her getting even with the soldier who took her mother's life. He chased her and team for days in the first season, throwing every firebending at them. And he betrayed her when they were in Ba Si Sa, the reason why Aang got struck by lightning from Azula. And for the scene with Katara wanting revenge on the man that killed her mother, a true partner isn't always going to agree with you. Not out of personal beliefs but out concern and love towards their partner. Especially when they know who the person, and Aang has that right to say that. Zuko doesn't know her at all. Aang knows who Katara is. He spent everyday with her, and who she is, is a caring person. Who's always willing to help people no matter what. She gives hope to people around her. Which is why he still allows her to take Appa and go on the journey, but begged her not to killed the man. Because if she took the man's life, it will destroy whatever good being she had in her. How many times we see people actinf on revenge, ending up regretting, or ending up like the same person who wronged them.
Even though, Katara doesn't forgive the man, Aang still respected it. All he wanted was for her not to choose violence. THAT right there, is someone that truly loves a person, not go blindly support on whatever they do. You show support being empathic but also giving your significant other meanful advice. And the journey could've been a risky move. Which is what I get on Zuko for not thinking things throughly. What if the soldiers on the boat found them and surrounded? Sure, Katara could bloodbend at the moment, but I'm sure she can't stop all fireballs flying at her in every direction. And would give them away, risking the others to be found too. Someone who cares about you isn't going let you take risky things when it could be harmful towards you.
So, I never understood the whole thing with Zutara. It really shows me of a teenage romance fantasy than actual genuine relationship. I mean how many times that stereotype relationship actually ends up good in real like. We saw it through high school, sometimes in life, the girl trying to get the bad boy. But ends up heartbroken afterwards. You don't need heated tension to build something. It last for moment but quickly dies down later. You can make a good friendship that grows and becomes a romance. And that's what seem what some people are missing with Aang and Katara. In the show they would have always ended up together. Maybe they didn't show enough signs, but their priorities was to defeat the fire lord and end the war. Romance wasn't on anymore first top of the list. That's why at that scene at the fire nation play, Katara wasn't fully sure on what she felt. Because of everything that was going on. So when Aang kissed her, she back off, and it showed it wasn't accepted. Then Aang regretted later. They didn't show them kissing again until the end of the show, when Katara first initiates it. It maybe had been little, but there were signs of their relationship development throughout the series.
@soradanam8160 mucho texto
honestly for me it was just that zuko was the only one in the gaang that didn’t see Katara as a mother figure
@@casrielyes, Aang was too much her little brother emotionally
@@soradanam8160 Technically you can't prove that they are worse for each other... because we never saw them in a relationship. The fact that almost everyone agrees that mai×zuko is toxic means she is not right for zuko. Zutara fans care more about zuko's happiness than aangs (and vise versa). What katara gave zuko fans was a chance to tap even deeper into his heart, and it was his heart and vulnerability that gave him one of the best written character arcs of all time. The development of zutara would elevate both of their arcs, katara starting out hating fire benders and zuko hating... everything. And they kind of do that without actually getting together in season three. They grow a close bond that they are willing to lay down their lives for (zuko lightning strike). I think, yes, if written poorly they could be toxic like in season 1. But by season 3 they are so much more grown than that. People who ship them want to see their romance be the softest most sentimentally emotional thing that they ever blessed their eyes with because that's it's greatest potential at the end of their full character arcs. If you see it's potential now, great!! If you don't, you never will my friend. ❤
Man. Idk how you can go and write such a good analysis about how Katara is the heart of the group and that job sucking...and then boil down Zutara as a ship people project themselves into into thru Katara.
Everyone makes a lot of assumptions about why people ship Zutara and it's almost always said in a degrading, belittling way. It's very discouraging to see even all this time later.
But what I, and a lot of other Zutara fans who have analyzed the show like about this ship is that Katara *doesn't need to fix Zuko*. He is capable of fixing himself. He gets a lot of help and support along his journey, especially from Iroh, but he doesn't need Katara to become a better person.
Yes, the fact that Zuko and Katara have a lot of similar trauma means that they could understand and support each other...as couples or friends do...but I personally don't think of this dynamic as "good girl meets bad boy".
Katara has to do a lot of emotional heavy lifting for the group, and it takes it's toll on her. But Katara doesn't have to fill the caretaker role for Zuko. She's free from that burden while with Zuko. And as someone who loves Katara as a character, who was invested in her story and hoped for the best for her--Zuko was the one who didn't need her to be his mom. He has similar ideals and he respects her a lot, not just as a friend, but as a warrior. Something that was very important to her.
Idk, there's a lot more I could say on this. I know you're just making funny ha-has and poking fun, like, I get it. It is just tiring to see the same old misunderstandings from when the show was still airing *still* be the main talking points.
That’s the point of this ship as I see it. It’s more about what people want and bring to Zutara than the actual mechanics of the in-show characters.
The cliches, the actual nuance and possibilities , all of it blends together to make a ship that captivated a generation.
In fact, Zuko was the only one who fully accepted her dark side and supported her. Katara only once helped Zuko when he was hesitant to talk to his uncle.
The "a good girl fixes a bad boy" is literally the opposite of them, which is funny to hear especially from Kataang fans.
Even though I am a Zutara shipper I was always fine with it not being canon, I never had a problem with it. What I really wanted though, was for Katara to grow independently from her friends. Because everyone branched off to do their own thing, while Katara seemed stationary. Sokka was working with the White Lotus, Toph founded the Republic City police force and made a metal-bending branch, Aang was the Avatar, spreading peace throughout the Nations, and Zuko was the Firelord trying to reform the Fire Nation. But what about Katara? She didn't get to do anything for herself and was mainly by Aang's side or in the Southern Water Tribe.
What I saw for her was her becoming a great Ambassador. She is compassionate, inspirational, and outspoken. She could have worked to mend the bridges between nations or helped those who suffered during the war. She could have made so many changes with that position. Also, Sis slays in robes and kimonos.😮💨
@@SarcasticChorus If you ever have the time, I really recommend watching "Get in losers we're stanning Zutara". In my opinion, it's the best video essay about the ship and it truly encapsulates why so many people, including myself, ship Zuko and Katara.
Yeah people saying it would be a good girl/bad boy cliche doesnt make any sense because like...we're not shipping Katara with season 1 Zuko. At the end of the show, he's not a "bad boy". He's a person with a complicated past who suffered and fought to overcome his vices and become a better person. Who is more likely to understand Katara's own past? Him? Or a kid who had a great childhood and then slept through a hundred year war?
Sneezy Reviews' "Get in Losers We're Stanning Zutara" video explains the very real build-up to Zutara regardless of what the writers intended. They accidentally created a ship that is more interesting than the real ending one with Aang
Sneezy is an amazing essayist!! She did so much for the fandom, notably how she published og scripts with the writers referring to Zutara. def check that out
I love that video so much, literally re-watching it now.
That video is the best analysis out there!!!
Also her video on Katara in the The Southern Raiders episode is excellent as well!
I feel like Sneezy is an institution when it comes to Zutara content 😌
I literally rewatch her Zutara analysis every other month, she's so good
ngl june was the biggest zutara fan during the show
One thing I'm a little surprised you didn't mention is that, in the Phoenix king episode Zuko starts attacking Aang but everyone doesn't assume that he's suddenly gone back to being bad even Katara who threatened to kill him if he stepped out of line once.
People have brought up how that is a huge testament to how much they trust Zuko by that point 🤔.
Maybe it's because I'm ace, but horniness was never a factor in me liking them.
For me, there were various things that had me liking them, and made them my favorite ship for AtLA.
There are the opposites attracts aspect, yes, fire/water and red/blue are just classic pairs that can work well off the other, which is why they are a popular trope. But there were also similarities: the loss of their mother that did spark off a bond initially, both having a "spirit" persona, and both having a pressure to try and be the backbone and sometimes stepping/needing to be the leader to keep things going. And yeah, the big Zutara moments did feed into it. The Crystal Catacombs was when I started to like them, TSR added to it, and him taking a lightning bolt for her. Side note, someone had brought up a really funny point that technically Katara is the Fire Lord since she was the one to beat Azula in the Agni Kai for the throne 🤣that's a fic I want to read.
Anyway, there are other aspects too. For one thing they felt a lot more equal, and could've provided for each other's emotional needs.
I never saw it as Katara "fixing" Zuko, but more providing that emotional support that he needs and wants. Best example of this was one trying to get council and support from Mai, but she dismissed him and his feelings a lot (which really made me dislike Maiko). Zuko does want that emotional support, someone that will listen and talk with him. Something we do see Katara does do as she listens to his fears and gave him that support to go face Iroh again. By who Katara is, she is what Zuko wanted and sought for in his initial partner, someone who listens, will talk with him, show support, tell it to him straight, and help him sort things out.
With Katara, she steps up as the rock for everyone, she gives the comfort, the advise, and will bare the upset (like, I recently rewatched the show and I give mad kudos to Katara and her patience when they were lost in the desert between Sokka being high, Toph being numb and tired, and Aang is snapping and on a thin thread; I don't know if I could've done what she has done). And the biggest kicker for me is that, she hardly ever gets this emotional provision and support back. Her own emotional needs are never in the forefront or ever considered. Not until Zuko in The Southern Raiders, where he offers her the closure to face her mother's killer, and he let her handle things as she wanted to do, she didn't have to consider how another wanted to do things. He offered that chance, the support, and let her handle things as she wanted.
And this was made even more so important with how Aang was in TSR. He rubbed me wrong and kinda pissed me off. Even more so as he was kinda being a hypocrite, given how he was post Appa's kidnapping, largely lashing his anger out on her and killing a vulture wasp. For him to be like that, never called out for it, never apologies, and then discourage her from lashing out which she herself hardly ever does, just rubbed me wrong. It wasn't until Zuko that Katara's raw feelings were allowed to just be, and to exist, and not be put down for how she's feeling or what she does. By how she is, Katara is held to a standard, especially by Aang. And with Zuko, she doesn't get that. A lot of their interacts post TSR just really made Zuko feel like an equal to Katara, someone she doesn't have to step up and be a mother to. Someone she can share her feelings with and not have to deal with being put down in anyway.
There is some appeal to a union between the FN and WT. It could've showed the FN moving forward to peace and union, to live in harmony with the other nations. Katara herself could've helped with easing tension between FN and the other nations as Zuko and the whole FN were going to be warily regarded. And it could work into FN making an effort to make up to what was done to the SWT, as they're the 2nd biggest victims of the FN. And mindful, this does come down to preference, but I like my ships to be happy post marriage and with kids. And it's one of those things where what they would want would be found in each other.
Katara is very family oriented, and I see Zuko himself wanting a close knit family too, since that's something he never got. Also for sure, he wouldn't have prioritized one kid over the others. I was actually very surprised that Katara never called Aang out on that or dealt with it, but she's never really ever allowed to call him out on his bs even when deserved, so I guess better for her to become the subdue wife... even though that's not who she is...
Either way, I love Zuatara and it's potential, sucks that it didn't get to be canon, but at least I got a lot of great fics to read.
I find it unrealistic, like a teenage fantasy, that never becomes good in real life. They would be like Zuko and Mei, toxic. And even though I don't like Zuko and Mei together, it still hinted in the show that he still cared about her. So it never going to be. Katara and Zuko are both too hot headed, like did you guys forget Katara literally hated Zuko? Yet you want her to be with him because how good he looks? Or because both lose moms, when Zuko's is still alive. So that doesn't even count. And as that would make sense for couples to be together anyway. They're the worse for each other.
Which I don't get why people harp so much on Aang's relationship with Katara. And people make it seem like Katara and Aang was just the hero gets the girl. Like Katara didn't have her own interests as well. Also, the show was base on Aang's story, so it makes sense to see things in his perspective. Even so, they still shows little signs of Katara's feelings. Yes, I'll adimt they had awkward moments but who never did when they were in middle school and high school. It was showing how they were feeling towards other. Also, half of Aang's life was stuck in iceberg, and the other with the monks. So who's going to have again after that? And it showed everything everybody's awkward moments in their relationship. Not just Aang. A realistic thing that happens in young teenage relationships. Katara and Aang were made for each other, they brought out the best in each person. Yeah, she's one year older than him but it's not a huge thing. It's like 16 or 17 to 12, okay. There's real people who have that same age range. It doesn't remove anything in their relationship, so why should it be in these pair.
Katara acted motherly sometimes but that's how she was towards everyone in the group. After losing her mom, she became more mature than the rest at times. Especially living in a war, she grew up quickly same as her brother. So she had take a lot of responsibilities in her village. That didn't Aang wasn't her anchor of wisdom too when she needs it. It's not one sided. Aang gave same support and attention to her. When he defend her when Paku wouldn't train Katara waterbending. Supporting her when she acted as the painted lady. He taught Katara how to have fun again, despite living in a war. Going penguin sliding and just having fun moments together is what developed their growth. And when he was going through emotional moments, she was there to help him through. Then, Aang did the same towards her with Katara's mom scene and other situations. Not wanting her to go on a dark path and destroy the good within her.
What did really Zuko bring towards her? Other than agreed with her getting even with the soldier who took her mother's life. He chased her and team for days in the first season, throwing every firebending at them. And he betrayed her when they were in Ba Si Sa, the reason why Aang got struck by lightning from Azula. And for the scene with Katara wanting revenge on the man that killed her mother, a true partner isn't always going to agree with you. Not out of personal beliefs but out concern and love towards their partner. Especially when they know who the person, and Aang has that right to say that. Zuko doesn't know her at all. Aang knows who Katara is. He spent everyday with her, and who she is, is a caring person. Who's always willing to help people no matter what. She gives hope to people around her. Which is why he still allows her to take Appa and go on the journey, but begged her not to killed the man. Because if she took the man's life, it will destroy whatever good being she had in her. How many times we see people actinf on revenge, ending up regretting, or ending up like the same person who wronged them.
Even though, Katara doesn't forgive the man, Aang still respected it. All he wanted was for her not to choose violence. THAT right there, is someone that truly loves a person, not go blindly support on whatever they do. You show support being empathic but also giving your significant other meanful advice. And the journey could've been a risky move. Which is what I get on Zuko for not thinking things throughly. What if the soldiers on the boat found them and surrounded? Sure, Katara could bloodbend at the moment, but I'm sure she can't stop all fireballs flying at her in every direction. And would give them away, risking the others to be found too. Someone who cares about you isn't going let you take risky things when it could be harmful towards you.
So, I never understood the whole thing with Zutara. It really shows me of a teenage romance fantasy than actual genuine relationship. I mean how many times that stereotype relationship actually ends up good in real like. We saw it through high school, sometimes in life, the girl trying to get the bad boy. But ends up heartbroken afterwards. You don't need heated tension to build something. It last for moment but quickly dies down later. You can make a good friendship that grows and becomes a romance. And that's what seem what some people are missing with Aang and Katara. In the show they would have always ended up together. Maybe they didn't show enough signs, but their priorities was to defeat the fire lord and end the war. Romance wasn't on anymore first top of the list. That's why at that scene at the fire nation play, Katara wasn't fully sure on what she felt. Because of everything that was going on. So when Aang kissed her, she back off, and it showed it wasn't accepted. Then Aang regretted later. They didn't show them kissing again until the end of the show, when Katara first initiates it. It maybe had been little, but there were signs of their relationship development throughout the series.
The person Zuko should've been with is the girl in Ba Si Sa (can't remember her name. I think it was Jin something but he should've been with her. With him and Katara they had too much bad history. And her forgiving wasn't going give a enough to the relationship. Same with Mei. That's relationship was toxic. But both of them grew up in a horrible environment, so it's not surprising. At least with Jin it seemed genuine. And girl was nice as well and brought out the good side of Zuko. When he was with her he looked fine and at peace. You be with someone who's going to bring balance and peace. That will lift you up when you need them. Something Aang always provided towards Katara.
@@soradanam8160Dude, im starting to think ur a spammer
@@savybeanie I'm allowed to have my opinion, never said anyone had to agree with me. Did I?
I’m not reading all of that because come on it’s a lot. I’m of the opposite camp as you but same group. I support Katang but I’m also ace. Even if I think you’re weird it’s fun to meet you 😉
Same, as an ace that's why I wanted Zutara together .
Alright, here we go lol. I think most Zutara fans, especially these days, are completely okay with the fact that the ship wasn't canon. A pairing being canon doesn't mean it's the most compelling ship or the most logical choice for the characters. That said, most Zutara shippers have the very valid belief that Zutara had a solid foundation that could have easily been further developed within the story IF the creators had chosen to go down that path.
Zuko's dynamic with Katara presented a unique appeal that was really distinct from Kataang. Zuko respected Katara's choices, demonstrated self-sacrifice, treated her as an equal, and offered a different kind of hero with his redemption arc, which resonated with a lot of fans. I think boiling down the "moment" that people ship them for to the cave scene in season one is a little short-sighted. Season three is where we really got the moments that made people like the ship as an endgame option.
He took a lightening bolt for her. He worked hard to earn her trust and went from foe to trusted friend. He went with her to confront her mother's killer, letting her make her own choices and supporting her along the entire journey, which is a very heavy emotional moment. It's one of the only scenes where we see Katara being supported with a matter that fundamentally means a lot to her instead of her doing the supporting and nurturing for someone else. I'm not saying Aang never did that (The Painted Lady is a good example, but even that was the entire friend group helping her, not a one-on-one solo mission). It's really clear with that situation that Zuko supported her in a way that's different than the rest of the cast.
People who say there's no foundation at all there are being a little facetious, let's be real.
Plus, the bad boy with a redemption arc paired with the good girl with an edge is a pretty timeless dynamic. There's a reason why even the voice actors for Zuko, Toph, and Katara all ship Zutara. Even this creator's Kataang video pointed out why it was a little hard to imagine Kataang being together where the series wrapped up. There were moments, for sure, but the show never really figured out how to bridge the "family" aspect of Katara and Aang's relationship with the romance we were supposed to be rooting for.
In contrast, they did an amazing job taking Zutara from legitimate enemies to very close friends, which is not an easy feat. The evolution of their relationship was much more believable and easy to buy into where the Kataang romance wasn't. It's not hard to see how people could've imagined them taking that further. It feels like the show was trying to almost walk it back because they realized how much more foundation they gave to Zutara compared to Kataang.
If we were to shuffle the ships around a bit, Aang and Toph would've been a great alternative ship for Aang if Kataang wasn't happening. Likewise, Zuko and Mai, despite her personal growth, could reasonably have had a discussion that leads to them choosing separate paths by the conclusion of the series. They actually do break up and it’s only really implied that they end up back together at some point because in LoK Zuko has Izumi, who looks like Mai. But even then, they don’t say they got married or stayed together for the entire length of their lives. Ultimately, the characters are in their mid and late teens. It wouldn't have been unfathomable if their relationship didn't last.
It's important to recognize that different people are drawn to their ships of choice for personal reasons, and there is no right or wrong way to ship characters. It’s not wrong to ship Kataang. It's not wrong to ship Zutara. It's not wrong to ship Maiko (or Zuko and the Earth kingdom girl, which I've actually seen people prefer over Maiko quite a bit lately). Dismissing Zutara shippers as merely projecting onto Katara or simping for Zuko is dismissive and rude. Everyone should be allowed to enjoy their preferred ships without unnecessary hostility. Let people enjoy things! These are all fake people in a story that's over a decade old. Let's all just be cool. Shipping is never that serious and it's all supposed to be fun.
Exactly. The cave scene was powerful but it was more like..a "spicy ship moment". Zutara in season 3 were different. They were mature, they were equal and supportive. Katara wasn't mothering Zuko, they were like parents of the team.
" He went with her to confront her mother's killer, letting her make her own choices and supporting her along the entire journey"
Here's my issue with this and the discourse around The Southern Raiders, Aang supported her too, even when he disagreed with her, he still let her take Appa, and he did believe she'd do the right thing. The idea that Zuko was more supportive because he never questions her decision is a little off because if you really care about someone, and I'm not necessarily saying Zuko didn't care, you don't just let them run wild, Aang actually tried to give her advice and at least show her another way, which as much as people claim he was so immature throughout the series was a far more adult thing to do then immediately pushing for a revenge quest.
@@mikemorro140 They all (meaning the Gaang) knew she wouldn’t kill him in the end, but Zuko knew she needed to decide that for herself, whereas Aang told her she should forgive her mother’s murderer. I don’t think that was Aang speaking from maturity but just his beliefs due to his upbringing which Zuko, in contrast, is actively unlearning and letting his beliefs evolve. If Zuko was letting Katara run wild and egging her on in a negative way he would’ve pressed her to murder the man but he didn’t. He let her threaten him, and he let her choose to back down. Pacifism by default isn’t inherently the more mature option.
*Edited*
I removed the bit where I said Sokka pulled Aang away and pushed him to let Katara go. He actually buddies up with Aang about it and is on Aang’s side about the forgiveness thing. Still, Aang very condescendingly says “It’s okay Katara, because I forgive you *smiles* Does that give you any ideas?” which honestly makes the scene even worse than I remembered it.
@@mikemorro140
it was more of pushing his pacifists ideology to her and even at the end of the ep he still assumed that she would forgive him which idkabout you but that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. It’s also the fact that aang never sees katara for who she is, she’s kind, caring a very nurturing gal, and aang sees her as a almost perfect person, but underneath all that she’s angry sometimes, competitive, and has a lot of trauma that he doesn’t really see in the show. You can think whatever you think about how he supported her in his own way, and I do belive he thought that killing a guy who murder your mom might lead her to a darker path or whatever or maybe his words got to her. But all in all he didn’t really ever see her at her worse, and I’m not saying that in this case zutara is never but yeah that’s how is Ed it
@@mikemorro140 dude thank you people constantly use this as "proof" that Zuko understands Katara more but there's a big difference between respecting someone's actions and not doing shit and just letting them do whatever I respect Aang's approach far more cause he's been there before he's let his anger and frustration cloud his common sense and he knows that's not a good headspace to be in
Zutara not only has great romantic potential, a waterbender and firebender, the son of the firelord and daughter of the water tribe,two supposed enemies and opposites finding love. It also has great story potential if Katara were to marry Zuko instead of Aang. Instead of just being Aangs wife, she would become the Fire Lady, queen of the Fire nation and diplomat to the Southern Water tribe. She would help unite these two warring nations and lead them to peace. Katara and Zuko together would redeem the sins of the fire nation and change the world by promoting and celebrating Elemental co-intergration.
I doubt Katara wanted to be a wife to someone nation that once oppressed her nation as well as everyone else. And not to mention but of them are hot-headed people. People with the same fire personality never work out in real like. They would bring the worst out of each other. Katara needed peace in her life. Something Aang always provided.
@@soradanam8160 Zuko found peace within himself he may still have his anger but that's no longer all he is. He's not the same Zuko in season 1 he can help give Katara balance as he helped her gain closure her mother's murder.
@@thatonkgau5221 Yeah, that doesn't mean they needed to be in a relationship. Even so they have way too much bad blood to make something. He caused a lot of grief towards her and her friends. He almost got Aang killed by not stopping Azula.
@@soradanam8160I think with this you are ignoring everything that Zuko and Katara's character arc entailed.
In the end she is supposed to no longer exclusively see the fire nation as "oppressors" part of the book is fire is supposed to humanize them and not blame the entire nation for the actions of their leaders, yes she needs peace but I think she would have certainly taken the role of lady to make sure she wouldn't be the only one enjoying that peace, but her people as well.
@@zgallego14. Exactly took the words right out of my mouth
More than liking zutara, its the ending that irks me away from kataang. That kiss feels less like "katara finally accepts aangs feelings and returns them with her own out of her own bollition" and more of "the hero won, so he gets the girl." Furthermore, katara literally loses all of her identity when she stays with aang. Theres no statue of her, no city named after her, no more of katara, only "the avatar's girl"
And lets not even forget the fact that the last conversation aang and katara have before that kiss is an argument where they scream at each other. Legit dont see how that transitions into making out
Katara was more than an avatar girl. And never she cared about being famous, she just wanted the war to end. Having peace in her life and everyone she cared for. People make it seem like Katara and Aang was just the hero gets the girl. Like Katara didn't have her own interests as well. Also, the show was base on Aang's story, so it makes sense to see things in his perspective. Even so, they still shows little signs of Katara's feelings. Yes, I'll adimt they had awkward moments but who never did when they were in middle school and high school. It was showing how they were feeling towards other. Also, half of Aang's life was stuck in iceberg, and the other with the monks. So who's going to have again after that? And it showed everything everybody's awkward moments in their relationship. Not just Aang. A realistic thing that happens in young teenage relationships. Katara and Aang were made for each other, they brought out the best in each person. Yeah, she's one year older than him but it's not a huge thing. It's like 16 or 17 to 12, okay. There's real people who have that same age range. It doesn't remove anything in their relationship, so why should it be in these pair.
Katara acted motherly sometimes but that's how she was towards everyone in the group. After losing her mom, she became more mature than the rest at times. Especially living in a war, she grew up quickly same as her brother. So she had take a lot of responsibilities in her village. That didn't Aang wasn't her anchor of wisdom too when she needs it. It's not one sided. Aang gave same support and attention to her. When he defend her when Paku wouldn't train Katara waterbending. Supporting her when she acted as the painted lady. He taught Katara how to have fun again, despite living in a war. Going penguin sliding and just having fun moments together is what developed their growth. And when he was going through emotional moments, she was there to help him through. Then, Aang did the same towards her with Katara's mom scene and other situations. Not wanting her to go on a dark path and destroy the good within her.
" Theres no statue of her, no city named after her, no more of katara, only "the avatar's girl""
She outlawed bloodbending, was regarded as the best healer in the world, and taught Korra to waterbend, she didn't have statues but pretending she had nothing is wild
@@mikemorro140Also in Korra's time she's still alive so
Literally no one ever refers to her as "The Avatar's girl" in any show. Only the people that claim to stan her do that. She was politically active in Republic City. Toph mentions that in the comics and we know she outlawed bloodbending. She's mentioned by Yakone by name, not as "the Avatar's wife". The White Lotus calls her "Master Katara" and she oversees all of Korra's training. She's the best healer in the world bar none.
Why do you keep reducing her to "no more of Katara" when the show doesn't do that?
@@Eleni1002There was an instance in the show - in Ember Island Players, the Zuko stage actor says to Katara "I thought you were the Avatar's girl" to which Aang nodded. To answer that last question, it's that Katara didnt have much of a legacy of her own in Korra - she was always this fierce warrior in ATLA so it wouldn't have made sense for her to just remain in the background for the rest of her life. In her own words, she doesn't want to heal, she wants to fight! That's the issue ppl have with this
I think that both of them also having the parallels of pretending to be mysical people they are not (blue spirit and the painted lady) are what sparked me into shipping them as a child so all the other moments made me even more into the ship
I get the feeling Zuko knew she wouldn’t kill him. That she just needed to look him in the eye and confront that demon. To see what kind of man it takes to kill a defenseless woman.
And he knew that she couldn’t kill what was essentially a defenseless man. Which is another reason the Zutara ship works.
Zuko knew Katara just needed to look her mother’s murderer in the eye. Aang assumed that her confronting him was going to end with her killing him, showing he didn’t really know her at all.
I get where the creators were going with Kataang, however it wasn’t the correct choice. It was an ok choice. I’m not going to persecute them for it. But it’s still the wrong route because very few of their interactions spelt couple growth and was literally “this seems like a good spot to insert a one sided couple moment.”
I absolutely agree with you ❤ it was the wrong choice on their part. Even though I do respect the show in all its glory
What you said about "the heart" role character is so true. I not many people know this fandom, but in Animorphs (another child soldiers series) Cassie is very divisive. She has the role of being the heart, the morality, she has to stop everyone and say "should we really be doing it this way?" Some readers hate her, some are annoyed, some agree. Overall, I think questioning the most direct answer is a good call, and did lead to some good and bad outcomes. Some outcomes that were bad, had some good upsides.
But, that description you gave really fit Cassie, it's a tough role to fill. You'll have to do things that others will hate you for, and if your wrong, you will get the worst vitriol.
The fact that Percy Jackson got two adaptations but Animorphs none is insane
@@falconeshield It had a tv show. It's not good, but it exists.
And to be fair, it's hard to adapt one of the most violent and dark kids series. How do you show an alien "bursting like a watermelon?" Not to mention the animorphing itself, how do you make it look good without spending a lot of money?
@@genericname2747Animated movie?
I think your onto something here there are similarities between Cassie and Katara but I kinda feel like Katara is a better character. Sure Cassie is the "moral compass" but she is to a fault. Her along with the entire cast push all the tough decisions on Jake which literally breaks him and Cassie is one of the worst. Doing so not only kept her hands clean letting her go on and live a life where he basically fell apart and was abandoned by her. Katara is the heart of the group but she would never leave Aang to shoulder (if he had done so) the death of the fire lord alone. Cassie sacrificed Jake to live her ideal life at the end and I don't think Katara ever would.
@@falconeshieldMore like TV show. 54 books into one movie? Nah 😂
Just so it’s said, Ozai asked Ursa for an undetectable poison to kill his father to gain the throne. Part of their deal was her banishment cause Ozai was scared she’d poison him some day.
I mostly ship them because I thought Katara and Aang had zero chemistry and at the end it feels like the writers just gave Aang Katara as a reward while Katara never really showed romantic interests in Aang and when she did it really wasn't convincing. Honestly I would have rather the writers given us more with Jin, the idea of Zuko meeting the love of his life while he's in limbo in Ba Sing Se only to tell her "I have to go take care of something but I'll be back". But almost any ship would have been better than Katara Aang.
Katara was more than that. She isn't a reward, Aang earned her love base on how much he valued her. And people make it seem like Katara and Aang was just the hero gets the girl. Like Katara didn't have her own interests as well. Also, the show was base on Aang's story, so it makes sense to see things in his perspective. Even so, they still shows little signs of Katara's feelings. Yes, I'll adimt they had awkward moments but who never did when they were in middle school and high school. It was showing how they were feeling towards other. Also, half of Aang's life was stuck in iceberg, and the other with the monks. So who's going to have again after that? And it showed everything everybody's awkward moments in their relationship. Not just Aang. A realistic thing that happens in young teenage relationships. Katara and Aang were made for each other, they brought out the best in each person. Yeah, she's one year older than him but it's not a huge thing. It's like 16 or 17 to 12, okay. There's real people who have that same age range. It doesn't remove anything in their relationship, so why should it be in these pair.
Katara acted motherly sometimes but that's how she was towards everyone in the group. After losing her mom, she became more mature than the rest at times. Especially living in a war, she grew up quickly same as her brother. So she had take a lot of responsibilities in her village. That didn't Aang wasn't her anchor of wisdom too when she needs it. It's not one sided. Aang gave same support and attention to her. When he defend her when Paku wouldn't train Katara waterbending. Supporting her when she acted as the painted lady. He taught Katara how to have fun again, despite living in a war. Going penguin sliding and just having fun moments together is what developed their growth. And when he was going through emotional moments, she was there to help him through. Then, Aang did the same towards her with Katara's mom scene and other situations. Not wanting her to go on a dark path and destroy the good within her.
Saying that katara was a reward for Aang takes away any and all agency Katara had. It completely undermines her character.
I feel like people be down playing katara and aang and them being together. Literally the episodes aang brought back katara smile and still showing her to have fun. Episode 3 aang goes back still sinking in that he was gone for 100 years and seeing his master dead body katara was there for him a shoulder to cry on. Sure katara is mother like but let's be real you being frozen for 100 years everyone you love is dead and a war has been happening for those 100 years anyone would need a shoulder to cry on and plus katara is motherly with everyone if zuko was with the party longer he would had gotten that treatment to. Also katara and aang bring out the best out one another and support one another when there struggling. When aang was literally about to break his rule that every life is secret and potentially kill that sand bender that took appa away that wouldn't be the same aang anymore katara was the one that broke him out of it and was checking him every night about how he feeling about appa when traveling to bea sing sa. When katara got information on who killed her mother aang was one who didn't want katara to walk that dark path and to take a life away literally katara was blinded by rage she used blood bending the move she cried about when she first used it. Katara and aang has always been there for for aang katara been there for emotional support for his duties as avatar and when he lost appa and made aang a better avatar. Katara aang made her have fun and smiled again stood up for her when paku didn't want to teach her water bending and didn't let katara walk a dark path killing her mother killer. Also another reason why zutara wasn't go happen was because of the book 2 final he literally betrayed her and literally was apart of aang getting killed if she didn't have that spirit water she literally send zuko a death threat saying if he harms aang she will kill him.
That should at least have been left open. Like if they are older,, ok , but that age its just weird.
@iamjahlani7293 Fictional characters DON'T have agency though. They're that way because writers choose to write them like that, and it's fair to not be a fan of those writing choices
To be fair aunt Wu did say that You are going to marry a powerful bender. Not the avatar....👀
Even the Netflix show can't undo the fortuneteller scene.
That one, Katara choosing to save Aang with the special water, the footloose tribute.
Swap the two kisses in S3 between the pre invasion and the play, and boom. Better writing.
Kataang is endgame, but Netflix milking the Zuka shippers is genius. Free advertising!
@@falconeshieldi want Aang and Katara to be together like in the cartoon butci don't think it's going to happen in the live action
@@90sprinceofcrime67It definitely is. Kyoshi and Kuruk had their backstory updated, and the mother of two faces had a cameo years before Koh got Futurama'd. I actually like the fact that Kataang is less obvious in the show compared to the cartoon. But it's endgame.
@@falconeshieldI remember watching ATLA while it aired and what killed the fortune teller scene for a time was the sequence with the guru.
The guru stated Aang was going to have to remove his emotional connection to her and let her go. Taking it at face value, the writers made it ambiguous again if they'd get together.
@@wayIessProbably the ONLY time in the show Katang was threatened lol
Bryke got over it quick in S3 Ep 1
I think one of the reason ppl ride for zutara so hard is because it’s one of the only good examples of enemies to lovers that were genuinely enemies
Also, why aren’t you bringing up the fact that Aang and Katara as well as Zuko and Mai have a massive fight thats never resolved before the finale, but they still just end up together?
Katara hated Zuko before Ba Sing Se and she hates him before Southern Raiders, but she literally ends that episode off being more comfortable around Zuko than Aang… especially emotionally. Zuko did the one thing that Aang could literally never do for her, which is hear her out without judging her and let her make her own choices.
I will always be ardent for Zuko/Jin. Because something having barely any time has stuck with me for no reason other then it being cute.
Don't worry, Zuko and Katara are technically together in another life, "American Dragon: Jake Long" with Jake and Rose ❤
19 years on and still no movie......hot damn those poor fans.
If X-Men 97 becomes popular chances are Teen Titans 2003 FINALLY gets a conclusion in the shape of an animated DC movie as a response. I still can't believe Rocko's new life, Hey Arnold and The Critic got their movies but not American Dragon.
And to the confused 1994 Critic fans, Tarantino's last movie is practically The Critic LA.
@@falconeshield Yep, why,
Okay, one of your examples has a huge flaw, and that's saying people don't hold Jett accountable for the flooding thing. Nobody likes Jett because of the plan to flood the village and the reason we don't talk about the flooding is because if anyone is going to talk about him, they are exclusively talking about how he is one of the only named characters we get to know who straight up dies. He doesn't coast on bad boy cred, he coasts on being stupid expendable.
One more thing:
Both the voice actors of Zuko and Katara are in American dragon Jake Long ( their characters are couples)
So Zutara did exist in another universe
Thanks for the information now I gotta see the show then
Honestly? I shipped zuko more with that one earth nation girl that zuko went on a date with then Mai or Katara
"Zuko can get it"
Truer words have never been spoken
Oh yeah definitely
I've always been a Zutara shipper (yes, bit of me having a crush on Zuko but not entirely). I was hoping for it from Season 1. But, I could kinda see how it was unlikely and figured I would be fine if it didn't happen. UNTIL Southern Raiders. And no, it wasn't that "ooh, my ship might be sailing" that made it so I couldn't accept the end canon. It was Aang's self-righteous speech about how essentially "I forgave so you should too and not try to get closure/revenge." It was frankly the moment where I went "You do not deserve her. You do not tell others how to deal with their trauma." Even if you have the same trauma, everyone is an individual and how they cope will be different. What they need will be different. Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone else. So Aang's speech was a breaking point for me. It was the moment I basically went "I cannot accept Kataang as a couple" because to me, it just showed how Aang truly didn't get her and kinda deified her a bit. She was perfect in his eyes and this moment just showed that she wasn't that. She was very human with some very deep trauma and flaws. But he didn't seem to get that and just tried to keep her on that pedestal. And they just differed too much in how to deal with that which I personally have found since then just doesn't work in relationships. If you bottle and hold grudges, it is hard to date someone who forgives and lets go long term. You will not get each other's approaches and you will fight about it. A lot. And usually, the forgiving type will ironically hold the inability to forgive against the grudge holder. To me, this episode was just a death knell. They were too different to work. Meanwhile, Zuko didn't dictate how she handled her mother's murderer. He let her work it out on her own and even advocated for her autonomy in this to Aang by saying it wasn't his choice to make and that she needs this. And along the way, he just supported her decisions. Would he have let her kill the man? Probably. But I think he also understood that it was fundamentally HER choice. Not his, not Sokka's, not Aang's. She was the one with the survivor's guilt and the trauma of knowing she was likely the reason why her mother died (even if she didn't have confirmation that it was to protect her). Yeah, I'm biased, but frankly I just couldn't see Aang and Katara as long term partners due to that one moment. To me, it was a fundamental incompatibility being thrown in my face and just solidified my love of Zutara.
I feel like a lot of people downplay Aang's relationship sometimes. And people make it seem like Katara and Aang was just the hero gets the girl. Like Katara didn't have her own interests as well. Also, the show was base on Aang's story, so it makes sense to see things in his perspective. Even so, they still shows little signs of Katara's feelings. Yes, I'll adimt they had awkward moments but who never did when they were in middle school and high school. It was showing how they were feeling towards other. Also, half of Aang's life was stuck in iceberg, and the other with the monks. So who's going to have again after that? And it showed everything everybody's awkward moments in their relationship. Not just Aang. A realistic thing that happens in young teenage relationships. Katara and Aang were made for each other, they brought out the best in each person. Yeah, she's one year older than him but it's not a huge thing. It's like 16 or 17 to 12, okay. There's real people who have that same age range. It doesn't remove anything in their relationship, so why should it be in these pair.
Katara acted motherly sometimes but that's how she was towards everyone in the group. After losing her mom, she became more mature than the rest at times. Especially living in a war, she grew up quickly same as her brother. So she had take a lot of responsibilities in her village. That didn't Aang wasn't her anchor of wisdom too when she needs it. It's not one sided. Aang gave same support and attention to her. When he defend her when Paku wouldn't train Katara waterbending. Supporting her when she acted as the painted lady. He taught Katara how to have fun again, despite living in a war. Going penguin sliding and just having fun moments together is what developed their growth. And when he was going through emotional moments, she was there to help him through. Then, Aang did the same towards her with Katara's mom scene and other situations. Not wanting her to go on a dark path and destroy the good within her.
What did really Zuko bring towards her? Other than agreed with her getting even with the soldier who took her mother's life. He chased her and team for days in the first season, throwing every firebending at them. And he betrayed her when they were in Ba Si Sa, the reason why Aang got struck by lightning from Azula. And for the scene with Katara wanting revenge on the man that killed her mother, a true partner isn't always going to agree with you. Not out of personal beliefs but out concern and love towards their partner. Especially when they know who the person, and Aang has that right to say that. Zuko doesn't know her at all. Aang knows who Katara is. He spent everyday with her, and who she is, is a caring person. Who's always willing to help people no matter what. She gives hope to people around her. Which is why he still allows her to take Appa and go on the journey, but begged her not to killed the man. Because if she took the man's life, it will destroy whatever good being she had in her. How many times we see people actinf on revenge, ending up regretting, or ending up like the same person who wronged them.
Even though, Katara doesn't forgive the man, Aang still respected it. All he wanted was for her not to choose violence. THAT right there, is someone that truly loves a person, not go blindly support on whatever they do. You show support being empathic but also giving your significant other meanful advice. And the journey could've been a risky move. Which is what I get on Zuko for not thinking things throughly. What if the soldiers on the boat found them and surrounded? Sure, Katara could bloodbend at the moment, but I'm sure she can't stop all fireballs flying at her in every direction. And would give them away, risking the others to be found too. Someone who cares about you isn't going let you take risky things when it could be harmful towards you.
The Zutara I never agreed on. It really shows me of a teenage romance fantasy than actual genuine relationship. I mean how many times that stereotype relationship actually ends up good in real like. We saw it through high school, sometimes in life, the girl trying to get the bad boy. But ends up heartbroken afterwards. You don't need heated tension to build something. It last for moment but quickly dies down later. You can make a good friendship that grows and becomes a romance. And that's what seem what some people are missing with Aang and Katara. In the show they would have always ended up together.
@@soradanam8160 You missed my entire point. Aang wasn't advocating for no violence really. It was "take my approach to YOUR trauma." Which for me reflected some deep mismatched values. Also, you might want to reconsider why you think they would have ended up together because "in the show" because the writers (not just Bryke, but the ones who did the bulk of the actual writing) have basically all come and gone "Yeah, we did not have Kataang as endgame in our heads. That was upper management." Look, I'm not going to go way into it, but if you want a good breakdown of why Kataang doesn't work from a writing level up, you can check out Sneezy Reviews. She has multiple videos going into why Zutara works for a romance. But let me point this out: the last scenes before the finale kiss for Aang and Katara are them basically fighting a lot. Generally, when you're writing romance arcs, you want the final buildup to be bringing your characters closer and closer until you are sitting there going "OMG if this doesn't happen, I am going to be angry." It should be clear that they are mutually in love, both wanting each other, and every step is bringing them closer. Even if they can't be together yet, they should clearly be on the same page. Literally, there was no need to add more conflict. They had their blockage: the war. Kataang's arc literally has them getting pulled further and further apart with bigger and bigger issues over Sozin's Comet alone. This is not how you write romances that you want to root for. And this doesn't get into how before these spats, we were in a stalemate of platonic familial vibes only with the occasional hint that maybe Katara reciprocated. Maybe. So this final stretch had to be making its case for why Aang and Katara were a good match. And frankly, it didn't. It basically went "Here's everything they disagree on fundamentally." I think my comment makes it very clear (and I can repeat) that their differences are some really big ones that will absolutely cause issues for life as a couple. Things where I go "Yeah, you two would be breaking up over this." Like these are issues like "what's your stance on abortion?" and Katara went "Pro choice" and Aang went "Pro life." And neither could be dissuaded from those beliefs. It would not work. And the only reason it did is because frankly Bryke admitted Kataang was sorta wish fulfillment... for them.
And to be quite blunt: sweetie, I've been on the Zutara ship since I first watched like episode 2. I have stayed a fan of it far beyond the show. You're not going to change my mind on this. You can argue "it's canon" but I will always look at you and go "Just because it's canon doesn't mean it was a good ship or that it's not poorly written wish fulfillment for the creators." I'm not going to say Zutara was built up perfectly and that the ending wouldn't have felt a bit forced. But I can buy the arc better and frankly, the arc is more cohesive as a whole. I would have probably been fine with them all being single for the most part and watching Zutara unfold in the comics. And frankly, the ones who wrote the most scripts had that in mind for "if we get another season/shot at this."
Also to debunk your Zuko putting her in danger at the Southern Raiders trip... how fucking patronizing of you. He has seen her take on multiple enemies and handily beat them. He's had his ass kicked by her. He's watched her hold her own against his sister, a prodigy firebender. She's a master waterbender with genuine combat and stealth experience and he knows it. Also, he didn't know she could bloodbend until that moment in the cabin. I think it's rather a show of how much faith he has in her abilities. He knows she can handle herself. Also by this logic, you should also be railing about the Aang and Sokka trips. Hell, the Sokka one was far more dangerous because they were going into a prison and while Sokka is valuable, he isn't the only firebender we can get to teach Aang on our limited timecrunch (coughZukocough). You want to talk reckless? But suddenly, it's only reckless when you have him take the character whom basically everyone else acknowledges as one of the most talented waterbenders in the world at the time IN ACTUAL DIALOGUE. "She couldn't--" Nah. She could, and he knew she could before setting out. If anything, the cabin scene has him realize "OH shit, she is even more powerful than I realized. She could have bent my blood at any moment during this ride if she truly wanted to kill me." That her threat when he joined was not idle. She was fully capable of following up on it and he was even more aware of that after she bloodbent in front of him. He already knew she was exceptional from personal experience and others' experience. He already knew she'd basically saved Aang from the brink of death. He knew she would be fine. You, darling, are underestimating Katara because you're trying to justify Aang's view.
@@AppleStrawberryLove Bitch, I absolutely love you 😂❤
* background music * 🎶 That’s my girl That’s my girl 🎶😘❤❤❤😂
One thing that frustrates me about how love is handled in Avatar is that the creators show that the characters like each other romantically by having them kiss but never really putting in the work when it comes to the relationship itself. (Sokka’s relationships are the exception.) I wanted to like Kaatang, but since they never really moved past the mother-son dynamic (not to mention Katara never explicitly explores her feelings for him aside from when Sokka makes an offhand comment about Aang’s bending in the fortune teller episode), so it comes across as a kid crushing on his babysitter. Additionally, their last scene together before they kiss in the final is their discussion on Ember Island, which is rather problematic.
When it comes to Maiko, I actually LOVE the concept of their dynamic, having two people frustrated by the world around them but being able to confide in one another. (Also, childhood friends to lovers is often sweet.) However, instead of properly exploring the dynamic, they’re generally shown either kissing or fighting with no in between, which is an incredibly toxic relationship. Zuko is also shown unable to truly confide in Mai, as he cuts it off when he decides to join the Avatar without any real explanation. (These two break up and get back together TWICE in less than a season. I don’t see this being very long-lasting.)
As for Zutara: My personal favorite ship for Zuko is Jinko, though with the way the show went, I have a difficult time seeing how that could have worked out post-canon. However, my favorite ship for Katara (and my 2nd favorite for Zuko) would be Zutara. I don’t think they would have gotten together by the end of the final, but they did grow an incredibly strong bond by the end that has the potential to take that route, given another season or so worth of content. Their last scene together (contrasted with Aang) is taking down Azula and saving each other’s lives. Taking a bolt of lighting for someone is not something one would forget, and I do believe that that would be the final straw that would remove any final doubts for Katara regarding Zuko’s loyalty toward the Gaang (and herself). This relationship is the show-don’t-kiss relationship many fans wanted because it’s not kissing that shows that they could work as a couple but the writing itself. (Though kissing would be a nice bonus.)
I think you're on point on the reason why relationships in Avatar don't seem much believable. The writers kind of take them for granted, or use them to create tension/drama and land jokes instead of taking them seriously.
I can see Kataagn working in the future, so I'm not against them being end-game. I approve them as an end-game couple. But I think they got togheter too early, they had some messy writing, and Katara's point of view on what she admires the most about Aang was ignored.
I think Maiko had a similar problem to Kataang. What you said is true, but to me there's also the fact that, while I could understand Mai having a crush on Zuko based on her personality, I could never really understand why Zuko had a crush on Mai.
The first thing we learn about Mai is that she's bored, and later we're told that suppressing her feelings is a habit that was kind of imposed on her. So, childhood crush aside, I can see her being fascinated by the impulsive, emotional and conflicted boy in search for his purpose in life and that went through every kind of misfortune, someone that she herself wasn't completely able to understand.. And, in fact, I think that her relationship with Zuko did a lot of servive to Mai as a character. It gave her more screentime, something to care about, it made her more complex, and it's thanks to their relationship that she said one of the coolest lines in the whole show (we all know the one).
One the other hand, I think that Zuko's relationship with Mai was absolutely irrelevant to his arc, if not even detrimental. Why did Zuko like Mai? Was it only due to her cynicism and her bitter side ("you're so beautiful when you hate the world")? But it seemed like Zuko's arc was going in the completely opposite direction. I won't deny that Zuko has a lot of bitterness, so he probably could relate to that aspect of Mai's personality. But Zuko is an idealist at heart, and his bitterness is mostly due to a rage that he has to comprehend and ultimately direct at the right target instead of at "everyone and no one". His arc is mostly about being humble and overcoming pride and shame, so I don't know how bitterness and cynicism can help. Being attracted by that side of Mai felt like a step back. Especially considering that Mai seemed the opposite of what he was asking for in that moment. He wanted clarity and emotional support (he went to Iroh asking for advice). Mai brushed off his questions and couldn't relate to his struggles. I don't think she was being a bad girlfriend, she tried to support him the best way she could (kisses and material comfort), but she was totally missing the point. I'd also add that I don't think bitterness is a natural or healthy mindset for Zuko, but more like a sort of defense mechanism that he had to overcome. So, if we take bitterness out of the picture, what else does Zuko like about Mai? The fact that she tries to be present? The fact that... I don't know! What else there's to say about Mai? The fact that she's sensible and pragmatic? It isn't clear at all. In The Beach, Zuko was acting insufferable, but his frustration with Mai's lack of care felt genuine. He also said that he likes seeing her expressing herself. So, again, would Zuko really fall in love with Mai, if it seems like what he's looking for is the opposite of her?
It'd be different if they tried to work on their issues together. They both are emotionally stunted in some way (Zuko denies and misdirect his true emotions, Mai conceals her emotions). So, they could help each other to understand what's wrong. They surely highlight each other's main flaws by contrast (Zuko's lack of control, Mai's lack of motivation). But unless they grow in the same direction, I can't see them ever being a couple. And I don't know if Mai has to overcome her bitterness. Sure, she needs to express herself more, for her own good. But her detatchment doesn't feel as self-destructive as in Zuko's case. She really seems more naturally skeptical, wary and rational than Zuko. And all her complaining doesn't prevent her from bonding with people like Ty-Lee, who has behaviours that she would call "stupid".
It could have been interesting and more genuine, harsh but also kind of bittersweet due to them being "chilhood friends", if Zuko had conflicting feelings about Mai. Like, "I don't know if I really like her, maybe I do, maybe I don't. There are things about her I can relate to, but I don't know if we can really understand each other". It would have been an interesting, intimate and sincere dynimic to explore. Mai represents the common mindset of the Fire Nation, that doesn't question their mission and find pleasure in material comforts. It was everything Zuko was learning to question, so it would've been understandable if he had mixed feelings. But the writers wanted us to believe that Zuko was absolutely love-struck, and it didn't seem realistic. In the "Boiling Rock pt. 1" Zuko mentioning Mai with dreamy eyes felt forced to me. I was like "why do you even like her? For being gloomy? What has it to do with your character and your values? There's zero communication between you two, how can you start to understand each other?". And after that episode, he doesn't mention her ever again till the epilogue, even if she basically sacrificed herself for him. Even if he should have been worried. But the truth is, if he mentioned her again it would have felt maybe even more forced. It would have make evident that Zuko's connection with Mai is only surface-level. Mai as a character seems to work against Zuko's arc. Their relationship feels superficial, because being gloomy is literally the only thing they have in common.
I have the impression that the writers put them together because they wanted to keep Zuko "bad-boy coded"; to give an alternative to Zutara; because Mai had to turn against Azula; and because "ah ah emo couple, aren't they funny". But they didn't took their relationship seriously.
I'm sorry, this went so long!!!! I had to vent way more than I expected! I really tried to like Maiko years ago because I prefer shipping canon pairings, but the more I tried it, the more forced it felt.
Ok, to conclude. Sokka x Suki best written canon ship, no doubt. Luckily, they didn't try to add drama to this pairing, so it got spared from being ruined. The writers wouldn't have been able to handle it.
Zutara was baited visually, but it wasn't explored enough in the writing for me to ship them. Still, I think Zuko and Katara have the potentiat to build a wholesome and close friendhip, due to the fact that they share more similarities that it might seem. Zuko and Katara aren't really opposites, they have much more in common that Zuko and Mai. It's exactly because of their similarities that idk if they'll work as a couple, but as friends they surely do. But I doubt that their friendship will ever be explored and deepened, because that would make Zutara look healthy. And the original creators apparently don't want that. I feel like I've been robbed.
i was like 12 when i first watched avatar and got peeved when in the last episode, and zuko saved katara from azula they didn't kiss and little me was like 🥲. i will die on zutara hill even if it kills me
I was sort of on the other side of it, I never thought it was going to happen but man did I want it to (kinda) I knew katara and aang were end game cause back then I thought main character had to get the girl that was how tv worked (I was a kid) so I wasn't holding my breath and glad they were just friends not a love triangle cause at that time I hated relationship drama stuff. I'd rather have no relationship if they weren't end game. I'm still a zutara shipper though
I feel like you forgot another forgotten but still apt detail about this ship, their voice actors; more specifically, who Zuko and Katara share their voices with, because they aren’t the only would-be enemies-to-lovers ship these two VAs have portrayed. Zuko and Katara share their voices with American Dragon Jake Long and Rose the Huntsgirl.
Holy shit, you made a 50+ minute video about a SHIP.
I approve. I also ship Zuko and Katara.
When i was 14 watching The Southern Raiders for the first time and media wasnt yet drowning in anime tropes, i did want zuko and katara to get together not because "oooo theyre enimes to lovers" but because i wanted zuko to be the devil on kataras shoulder
you call it delusion but i would write a ten page single space double sided essay on why zutara would've been perfect for that delusion
Its always funny to me when people say Zutarians are just delusional, yet there are so many essays on tumblr (also a 2 hour long yt video) exploring the shipping and themes of the show and why they make sense
@@anfani6839how can we be delusional if the writers and the actors literally weren't sure about the endgame for Katara ? XD
The show made mixed signals and on the Zutara side there were better writers than...Bryke
@@yasmina3999Every time people say that Zutarians are delusional... that also means they call the literally actors of both characters delusional, even thou theyve played their roles for years and needed to understand their characters in order to voice them properly xD
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@@melonking281 So what? People are still talking about books from hundreds of years ago.
I 100% agree that Team Avatar's kryptonite is romance. They're mid at best and infuriating at worst T_T
For me personally, Kataang and Maiko were infuriating.
Honestly yeah Avatar could've done okay even without romance, the only ship I didn't find to be as infuriating was Suki and Sokka, they did annoy me a few times but it wasn't nearly as bad as the other ships
Romance in a friend group is a kryptonite for everyone lol not exclusive to Team Avatar.
I always felt like Aang and Katara kind of just end up together because of the lead character-ness of it all but at the same time I kinda appreciate that Katara and Zuko ended up being friends who helped each other grow and in ways because of that being each other's most inportant person while just remaining friends. It's so rare to see and I think having all that tension and hatred and healing end with romance sets a sort of unreasonable expectation in young peoples' minds.
But of course it would have all been fixed if they gave Aang and Katara a crumb of chemistry. They always felt like a ome sided crush that Katara just put up with ESPECIALLY since she was put in a mothering role to Aang and the gang. At most it felt like Aang taught Katara how to have run which is a shipping seed in it's own right but honestly if they ended the series like Kora and had them have an intense hand hold I think it would have had a perfectly good cathartic and ambiguous end
I always liked Zutara because I felt like Zuko really understood Katara in a way that I’m not sure Aang ever did. They just get each other so well. I always felt like Katara took care of Aang like a younger sibling and that their dynamics were just off.
Shout-out to my fellow Sokka x Zuko (Zukka? Soko? what's the ship name?) shippers that through out all these years have quietly thrived!
I recall the ultimate crack ships. Sokka Azula and Jetpacked Zuko
Same and it's Zukka. Tbh I only saw it when I grew up. Basically I switched from Zutara to Zukka so there's that.
Lmao. No one in ATLA is gay.
I think you'e not wrong in that a lot of zutara fans are/were girls people projecting onto katara. And maybe some of it is the "oh because zuko is a cool bad boy with a scar!" wish fulfillment angle, sure.
But that isn't it, at least for me. Katara was my favorite character, I identified a lot with her. She was pushed into a nurturing role, and is the emotional sponge for everyone else in the group (like you said), but also she... has this incredible hurt and trauma that runs just underneath the surface surrounding her mother and the cultural genocide she lived through among the southern water tribe.
I wanted to see her cared for. I wanted her to have an outlet for some of that rage and pain that she has been bottling up for years and years. And you know what? That scene in the cave with zuko gave part of that to me. She was comforted. She was empathized with. The Southern Raiders gave that to me BIG TIME!!! She got to be emotionally vulnerable and not have to worry about being nice. It was good. Aang put her up on a pedestal - I wanted her to get to be a person!! (note: i dont despise kataang. it's cute. not my cup of tea, but very cute. but the show did them sooo dirty. Whatever.).
I mean this is just a tiny piece of it all. but yeah. You're right, it was never going to happen - for a lot of reasons, but the main ones being - the show is 3 seasons, not 4+, and the show is called the last Airbender, not the last Waterbender. Zutara wasn't going to happen within the scope of ATLA. but that won't stop me from enjoying an assortment of post-show slowburn 200k fanfiction where Katara becomes a water tribe ambassador to the fire nation or whatever.
I'm 50 seconds into the video, and I find myself wondering if this guy knows what "headcanon" is. 👀 Most Zutara shippers don'tt think that their ship is canon. They are aware that Zuko didn't actually end up with Katara in any of the canon media. It's... just a ship.
Revisiting this vid after the Maiko one, but I just gotta say that the one thing that gave me a GLIMMER of interest that this ship had canon potential was just the timing of Zuko and Katara's romantic arcs in the last half of Book 3, and if there was another season or half of one, it could have realistically led there IF the writer's were to scrap their respective endgames.
-Zuko rejects his birthright in favor of helping Aang master firebending and defeating his father. This includes having to break up with Mai which is both justified by him not wanting her involved and potentially killed for treason, but narratively letting go of EVERYTHING his decision in the catacombs earned him. Enter Gaang, which is now a representation of the other choice he could have gone with
-Katara was the key character of that representation, his "good" choice (not romantically, within his redemption arc) that still reminds him of the consequences of his actions and reminds the audience that his arc is still not really complete with acceptance, he NEEDS to earn their forgiveness. Katara being the heart of the group is his ultimate goal to breakthrough for him or else the entire team cannot function productively.
-Zuko sees Mai in the Boiling Rock. She says her epic one-liner and is imprisoned, Zuko breaks off, SEEMINGLY putting an end to that relationship as a romantic one, since he doesn't mention her again let alone under the context of their romance.
-Katara and Zuko go on their field trip, she forgives him, yay
-The Kataang kiss is brought up again, to which we get that Katara's expression afterward is explained as her being conflicted with her feelings. She says that she doesn't want anything yet because of the war, but from a narrative standpoint you CAN see that with the previous Zutara ship baiting, her "I'm just a little confused" comes conveniently after she forgives Zuko, after Zuko intentionally sits next to her the entire time (I know in reality it's for gags to happen, this is a hypothetical!), and the conversation itself is a result of Aang storming off because of the Zutara scene in the play. What is Katara confused about? She already said why she doesn't want to be in a relationship yet, but Aang asks her when the right time is, and she doesn't answer that question and instead deflects saying she is confused whereas we assumed she wasn't ever confused by her feelings, it was just poor timing. So now is she suddenly confused by her feelings after the kiss happens? Is she questioning if she has feelings at all?
-The entire finale happens and Katara and Zuko's arcs are consistent in that they interwine. What the last finales had them working against each other, they are now allies here. It's what the catacombs COULD have been if Zuko made the right choice. It's ever more parallel because of Zuko taking the lightning bolt to the heart. People say that the Zutara redemption arc ended with Katara hugging Zuko, but I don't think so. I think that was a closure to Katara's personal arc and Zuko's redemption arc ends when Iroh forgives him. The lightning scene is dual closure between the both of them and is an atonement to what happened last season.. Zuko truly redeems himself for Katara by basically sacrificing his life (paralleling to Aang here in the process, there are a LOT of symbolisms in that one scene), and her narrative forgiveness is her healing him. "Thank you, Katara." "I think I should be the one thanking you."
Ahhh if only, Zutara is a victim of time, however. I'm still glad what happened did happen. It was at least a notable relationship in the series and their commercialized pairing in other products means it transcended endgame.
To be fair, in my defence as a Zutara shipper, the first episode of ATLA I watched was Crossroads of Destiny 😂
I respect the Kataang ship and felt it would be better as adults but within the context of ATLA, I kept rooting for Fireboy and Watergirl😂
Our last hope is Netflix show 😅
I'm not a Zutara shipper by any means, but I can understand why the ship is so popular. It just has all the right ingredients. You have:
1) Opposites attract trope (Red and Blue, Fire and Water, etc)
2) Angsty/brooding boy and Caring girl trope
3) Enemies to Lovers trope, which is generally infinitely more spicy than the vanilla main good boy x main good girl
4) One party's group/family has personally wronged the other party, which provides all sorts of drama and tension
5) Common background (Dead Moms)
6) The fact that Katara is the emotional support of the group, but only Zuko is the one party member who ever emotionally supported her and got her the closure she needed.
It is definitely more interesting than the canon Zutaang ship, which made me want to claw my eyes out. But the show basically traded Zutara for Zuko's god-tier redemption arc. Like you said, Zuko's redemption is still treated as the gold standard of redemption arcs. Any character's redemption is *still* compared to Zuko. And part of why his redemption is so good is that *not only* does he face consequences for his actions, *but he also* got what he wanted before starting his redemption. And that makes him unique.
Not a lot of characters who get a redemption arc can say that they succeeded in their goal before their redemption. Usually, these characters realize that they're doing the wrong thing while in-pursuit of their original goal leading to them changing tracks, or they grow some sort of attachment to the main character. Zuko stands out because all he ever wanted was to be welcomed back to his home and accepted by his father. By siding with Azula in Ba Sing Se, he gets it all. He's welcomed back into his home country and is accepted by his family. Zuko succeeds in his objective, only to find out he didn't really want it in the first place (and he was never gonna get it, but that's besides the point).
If Zuko had joined Katara in S2, then his redemption would've been just like everyone else. He wouldn't have been the stand-out character that he is today. The showrunners essentially put a choice in front of the audience: Zutara or an S-tier character. And while it's fun to wonder what could've been, I'll take the S-tier character any day.
Kataang sucked, Katara always felt more like an older sister or maternal figure to Aang, they did not do a good job portraying it in a romantic light at all lol As a kid i was not an avid shipper, but I always tended to ship the thing that was canon, but I did not vibe with Aang and Katara, it just felt too weird.
Yes, exactly. It makes me wonder how many people would still like Kataang if it hadnt ended up being canon - would there still be as many people liking them together in that way?
Yeah but Katara ending up with Zuko makes sense right? A guy who she pictured when she saw a nation that killed her mother went on to betray her. Of course she forgives him in the end but let’s jump into dating straightway? 😂
@@AstroSully I never said that even once in my comment, all I said was that Kataang always felt weird to me even as a child because they gave more of a older sibling/younger sibling vibe the entire show. I love how you just put words in my mouth I never said lol Were you offended that I didn't like Kataang or something?
Just remembering the absolute feralness I felt at the pirate/interrogation scene has me screaming. That was during the height of my fanfiction days too, going absolutely insane looking for stories after that episode. This ship awakened something in me lol
I am not going to pretend that the whole “good girl, bad boy, I can fix him” dynamic (or any other trope that applies to this ship, for that matter) wasn’t appealing to me when I first got into the ship…but the thing is, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. It’s okay to enjoy these tropes, as long as you’re mature enough to recognize that not all of them apply to real life. I’m tired of people dismissing Zutara as something for foolish, delusional, immature preteen girls. Sometimes you want critically-acclaimed literature that has stood the test of time and will have you discussing all of its intricacies with your seminar group for weeks, and sometimes you want to curl up on the couch on a rainy day with your favorite stuffed animals and watch a cheesy, poorly-written rom-com with a cup of tea in one hand and a tub of ice cream in the other. There’s nothing wrong with that. Shippers, by all means, enjoy your favorite tropes!
Just out of curiosity though, I wonder if anyone else has this particular preference that I’m about to describe now. Instead of the good-girl-fixes-bad-boy trope which the internet has unanimously labeled toxic, I really like the idea of Katara facing a post-redemption Zuko and slowly learning to work past her prejudices as she starts seeing more and more little hints of his humanity. She labels him a monster at first, and tries to cling that idea, but then she starts getting glimpses into his true nature. Maybe she sees him smile for the first time, or blush, or laugh. Maybe she notices his little quirks, or catches him feeding turtleducks or making tea or doing anything mundane and domestic. Zuko, desperately wanting to earn her trust, tries to be kind to her. He figures out what she likes, what she doesn’t like, and what will make her send him to an early grave. They spend more time together, end up accidentally having fun. They find they have a lot in common. Then, finally, they start getting vulnerable and bonding over shared trauma, and that’s when it gets serious. Katara is still in denial and keeps telling herself, “I don’t like him, I don’t like him…” but she’s obviously falling for him, while Zuko’s over here down-bad from day one but feeling unworthy…idk, I just love the idea of characters discovering things about each other, especially when there’s some initial hatred or prejudice involved. Also, as much as I enjoy edgy Zuko, it’s his cute, awkward side that really has me hooked. So a lot of this also has to do with me wanting to see more of cute, awkward Zuko + domestic fluff lol. Does anyone else enjoy this type of thing or is it just me?
Take solace and rejoice, you're definitely not alone in that area! There's a select few Book 3 Zutara fics on AO3 that follow that premise, though they're majority one-shots as far as I can remember.
As a Zutara shipper, I approve of this video
I feel like the writers were just being mean with this ship. like: "oh you want this do you? HA nope sorry!" It could have worked if it were a little bit different. even so, I still think they should have put more focus into the story and found family relationships but oh well. re-watching this as an adult really hit me hard watching these kids go through so much suffering. I hated Zuko as a kid but appreciate his struggles so much more as an adult.
Agree. I was like: "Okey, you don't want to make Zutara canon, but you don't have to be mean about it."
as someone who was a rabid zutara shipper at age 12 and still prefers them as an adult, this is the best and most objective (as far as you can be objective about shipping lol) vid on zutara i’ve seen. props to you
I don't know, as a kid, I liked Aang and Katara more, but to be fair I tended to just kind of follow what the story pushes for, but now that I am older, I kind of like Zuko and Katara more, I mean it is what it is with the way they went with the story, there are other movies and shows that I prefer if the romance went another way too. But I like the relationship between them because Katara is the caregiver, now that I am older it seems a little weird that the caregiver and the person she is taking care of gets together. And also Zuko's redemption arc to me, is not about him not being a villain, its about him redeeming himself, to both himself , his uncle and to Katara, especially given the way that she was the first to give him a chance and he blew it. I think their differences in life experience and hardships work well together in a relationship, in terms of writing and as an actual experience, I feel Zuko after he joins team avatar grows a lot, and relationship wise, it would have been nice to have Katara be in a more mature relationship with someone else too, in the way that she does not have to necessarily be the parental figure. Edit: just wanted to add, depending on how they wanted to go with the story, if the writers wanted, they could have gone with the story ending with the avatar being a big sacrifice, or just having to be alone in order to maintain balance or something like that. Edit 2: I just remembered the other show that I wish characters had a thing was JLU's Batman and Wonder woman.
Honestly you said it all. Zutara is a beloved ship for many reasons but it would have been impossible to make it canon if they didn't plant the seed for it sooner.
The idea, the potential of this ship carry it from S1 to 3 (and even after lol) but it was unfortunately never meant to anything more than a crack ship in ATLA.
If y’all get your Zutara, I should be allowed to have my Azaang
I will never stop shipping Zutara.
One of my problems with Katara and Aang was that, Aang was too childish, he was 12 at the start of the stor, but still at the end, he was still pretty childish and I never found them as a couple a good combo.
Then what we get to know from Korra, Aang wasn't really the best father, favouring 1 child over the others AND it seems like he was often going all over the world, leaving Katara and the other kids home. So no, I can never really like KatAang.
Because he is a child. So is Katara. So is Zuko. So is everyone in team Avatar 😂 One of my favourite dynamic to Kataang is that Katara is able to feel like a child alongside Aang. That penguin sledding scene in the first episode where Katara says “I feel like a child again” and Aang responds “You are a Child” shows you the innocence of youth being taken away from them in a time of war.
Honestly, I always saw Katara and Aang having a brother&sister relationship. Aang always seemed like the kid brother Katara never had. I know he had a crush on Katara, but I never saw her having that kind of affection for him. I watched the whole series, but I guess I'm just blind. Zuko and Katara seem to compliment each other. To me, it's like yinyang. Zuko is the physical part and Katara is the spiritual part. They're two halves of the whole. I would have also preferred Aang and Toph together. Once again, it feels like the whole yinyang combination. It's juat reversed. Toph being the yang and Aang being the yin.
How chaotic of a video would it be for 'The Sokka factor' of just how Sokka manages to have some of the best relationships with EVERYBODY
You know what's a crazy ship, despite they never met grangran and iroh
Now sir you’re digging a lil bit to far
@@itsari1290 I know
Hagrid x Dobby nasty vibes
Iroh could rizz her
Bro come on. Pakku needs love too 😭
A Zuko and Katara ship would be more plausible to me if Zuko wasn't the prince of the fire nation. If he was just another foot soldier or rebel it could work, but he's not only the heir to a genocidal, colonial regime, but he actively spends the first season perpetuating it and helps delivers the most decisive loss to the main cast. Yes, she can begin to forgive him, but to begin drawing lines that he's the *best* or even healthiest romantic option for her feels like it severely discounts her life experiences and trauma.
The Zutara dynamic was always a lot more interesting to me than Kataang. I felt like their moments were very genuine because Zuko was able to shake Kataras beliefs several times. She was harboring a deep hatred and a lot of resentment towards the entirety of the fire nation yet the faint glimpses of Zukos naturally considerate or kind nature had herself softening up and maybe doubting her very stuck up beliefs at some point. It seemed like it might have stirred up some feelings in her and maybe at times she felt like trusting someone again whom she had judged too quickly and unfairly, which I think is always more impactful than trusting someone right away without second thought. It's overcoming hardships that makes a bond stronger and earning trust isn't always easy, in fact it's a lot of work once you lost that trust. Just imagine someone coming into your life and challenging and possibly changing your entire worldview about a nation you've grown to despise.
So that moment in the cave had left me in shambles. I think Katara's disappointment was very apparent, Zuko betrayed her trust and also the audience's. I believe this was because part of her was ready to open up to him and get to know him better.
Call me delulu, but I think that's some great shipping material. Good shit, good shit.
👀
Edit: Also usually you're getting your feelings hurt worse by people who you've actually liked before and despite her mediative nature she was very explosive and aggressive towards him, especially after that incident. It made the dynamic of enemies to lovers a lot more probable once that trust might'be been restored again, which I found very exciting.
I had always hoped that Zuko would end up with Jin, that girl from Ba Sing Se who kept visiting the tea shop he and Iroh worked at.
I understand what you're saying- I just don't CARREEEEE!
Katara deserved to be more than just a damn mom. She deserved to have that kind of character development after putting her in the position that they did. She deserved an EXCITING romance. It really did just feel like she was a prize for aang at some points and it's so frustrating. With how much katara and zuko kicked each other's butts there were so many chances for them to acknowledge each other's strength and growth. Maybe they learn and study each other's bending styles to try and one up each other the next time they might fight.
Zutara actually made more sense. Really. They really worked together and its better than zuko and mai or zuko and azula. I could see them evening each other out. I could see her helping build a nation.
The worst thing about Zutara is how hard it is to be a fan of it. The second a Kataang shipper finds out you like Zutara, they will come for you (I know not all of them do this and there's definitely Zutara shippers who do this too). So many of the arguments against it can be so easily explained and it's often boiled down to one really shallow reason like "you had a crush on Zuko and identified with Katara", which may be true to some, but it's only one minor reason amongst hundreds of detailed explanations.
If you don't like a ship, don't interact with the content/people who enjoy it. Let them have their fun and you can have yours elsewhere. Please, I am begging you!
Was NOT expecting a Dimension 20: Misfits & Magic clip, but I did appreciate it
I like Katara and Zuko because Katara gets to be a fully developed character. She gets to be more than the heart.
This video made me want to read fanfiction where Zuko made the right choice and didn't betray Team Avatar during the confrontation with Azula in the cave, and as a result Zukara was actually possible. It's very strange how much it makes me want to read this, given that Avatar: TLA is at most, a tertiary thing I enjoy, and far from a fandom I would usually read fanfiction for.
Then again I did read this one incredibly good Stargate SG-1/A:TLA crossover fanfic (yes, it exists, it's incredible, I wish I could've read a sequel that the author promised but never wrote) so it wouldn't be without precedent.
somebody rewrite avatar with Zutara in it cause I know for sure that I'll invest
Ask and ye shall receive! Check out _emletish's_ three-pronged fanfic _The Worst Prisoner._ It starts as a Book 1 divergent "This member of the Gaang is Unintentionally!Captured/else finds themself on Zuko's ship; Shenanigans Unsue!" fic.
Has anyone else seen that kinda over 2 hours long video about this ship?(Yeah there are very devoted fans, respect to that)
i didn't really ship any of them, to be honest. But admittedly Zutara always made more sense to me than Kataang. Katara x Aang always had the weird feeling of a kid wanting to marry his own mom. i think i actually shuddered when they kissed. xD
One of the reasons I really liked Katara with Zuko as opposed to Aang, was the fact that it always felt like Katara was taking care of Aang in a motherly way, like she does with most of the group. But when Zuko came along their dynamic wasn’t like that. He was even the one looking out for her. Aang liking Katara felt like a childish crush on his part, made a little weird by her acting as his caretaker. Zuko felt more like a peer.
I laugh every time I hear this argument, and have three counterarguments to present for your consideration.
The first is just a quick one. A big piece of "evidence" for this particular argument is that Katara frequently hugs Aang to her bosom. This gesture is obviously maternal and can have no other interpretations. It couldn't possibly be because he's shorter than her, after all...
Next, their role dynamics are way off for their relationship to be maternal in nature. A huge part of the parent/child relationship is that the parent is an authority figure in relation to the child. Katara is not an authority figure to Aang. It's made perfectly clear throughout the series that she views him as an equal, and in fact, more often than not it is her looking up to him. Sometimes when he is conflicted or confused, she gives him advice, and she certainly takes care of him. But the thing is, that is part of Katara's dynamic with everyone. She is a nurturer and a caretaker by nature. She looks after everyone because that's who she is. It's very thoroughly documented in The Runaway.
And speaking of The Runaway, that leads nicely into my final counterargument. It's established in that episode that if Katara's relationship is extra-motherly with anyone, it's with Sokka. He flat-out says that their brother-sister dynamic also has a heavy dose of mother-son dynamics mixed in, because Katara worked so hard to step into their mother's shoes after Kya was murdered.
Now, let's think about that. If Katara's relationship with Sokka is siblings-mixed-with-maternal, and her relationship with Aang is best-friends-mixed-with-maternal, shouldn't her relationship with Aang look a whole lot more like her relationship with Sokka than it does?
I know I'm too late for my comment to matter, but I always shipped Zutara because Zuko is the one character that Katara has a relationship with that *isn't* motherly.
And Zuko is the only one of the characters to actually reach out to try and help *her* with *her* trauma.
They're both the most emotionally mature people in the group; they have a lot in common both in terms of what they've lost and how they've responded to it (a heaping helping of rage that neither deals with healthily). Zuko and Katara have a lot on their shoulders, specifically about caring for specific people (rather than the abstract 'caring for the world' that Aang does).
I like a good enemies to lovers trope, because usually both characters have something to learn from each other and something to empathize with each other about.
I honestly liked Zutara becuase zuko was the only on on the group who didint treat her like a mother figure
I always liked Zutara better. The age difference between Ang and Katara gave me the ick and Zuko with Katara just had a much more interesting dynamic.
Aang and Katara being 2 years apart gave you the ick??? That’s literally the same age difference Katara and Zuko have 😂😂
@@Idkkk20 As teens yes, because Aang was younger. Because boys reach emotional maturity later.
@@HayakonekoMost sadly never do irl, true fax
Damn the age difference of Zuko and Katara must give you the ick as well then? 😂
Zutara was shipped more and liked more because of the ages of everyone. Aang is a 12 year old prepubescent boy as where Zuko (16) and Katara (14) both have hit puberty in the story.
I think another contrast between the two is their actual personalities. Both are ridiculously stubborn. Zuko accepting a fight with Katara in a literal BLIZZARD while there's a full moon and they're less a a mile away from the Moon and Ocean spirits that massively enhance waterbending, not to mention that he's already badly injured from the brutal attempt on his life the day prior and that he was badly undercooled, nearly drowned, and has been fighting all night and day already without food or rest, just shows that he's stubborn to beyond where it's healthy.
Katara has that same mentality. It showed against Pakku, it showed against Zuko, Azula and the Dai Li. They never quit. Ever. Not until they're physically no longer capable of still going.
That's quite different from Aang, who backs down a lot faster, something Katara and Toph point out plenty during his earthbending training. And I think it's another reason why people like Zutara. The two are kinda the same, just one is water and one is fire. It's a classic.
I would love to see your take on Zukka as a ship coming out of the 2020 Avatar renaissance that happened when it got put on Netflix finally. To me it so feels like "After 14 years of fighting, Kataang vs Zutara, 420 rounds with no end in sight! The battle to end all battles and-! What's THIS?! ZUKKA WITH A STEAL CHAIR-!"
IDK about you guys but Korra x Mako always felt like pity Zutara
I do agree that Zuko had way more chemistry with Song and/or Jin than he ever had with Mai though.
And I actually like Mai.
I just vehemently despised the two of them together. I don't even know why. It just always did not rub me right. The only thing I disliked more was probably Kataang. 😂😂🙃😅👀 Lolll
47:21 Truth be told, Sokka would make a good half-way believable harem protagonist.
Thank you for explaining how unfair the hate is that Katara receives for having emotions and caring about things. And essentially for being a teenage girl. Because those are stupid by definition, right?
I ship Zutara wholeheartedly and I have been harassed by casual fans and Kataangers alike just for expressing my opinion but they say “Zutara stans are toxic” or
“Zutards have no life”….
i used to ship zutara as a kid because I loved how much they connected and were needed for each other to grow (the revenge episode + the crystal cave + the finale) but now I just think that its a beautiful platonic connection of complete understanding of each others pain and journey and I love that its platonic
I honestly like Zutara, but nothing beats:
"You've miscalculated. I love Zuko more than I fear you."
I feel like Mai didn't really do anything prior to that moment to showcase that though. Like, she was so blasé about everything, didn't really care about the fire nation's atrocities because her family benefitted from it, and then we get this moment kind of out of nowhere. We don't really get a moment prior to that, that shows WHY her mindset shifted about it. We never even really see her being afraid of or being opposed to Azula as a person. Ty Lee, in contrast, very obviously just wanted to fit in and the fire nation is where she was forced to do that. She joins the Kyoshi Warriors at the end so it's extra clear that she was never okay with the "evil," and just wanted friends. Mai doesn't really get that closure or explicit actions to her that makes it clear when and why she changes her views.
Mai was terrible for Zuko
It would have worked if Mai previously showed that she was afraid of Azula but her love for Zuko was so strong that she decided to fight back. But Mai didn't actually care much, do you remember ger going against Azula's order just because she didn't want to swim in dirty water?
It got referenced in Shera 2018. It was that good.
I would've loved Mai if she secretly had a crush on Azula but because of the time they live in she thought she liked Zuko. Idk, but Azula, Mai and Ty Lee felt queer to me even when I was a kid.
I’ve shipped Zutara since I was 13-14 years old which was when the show first aired, so I was about the same age as Katara, and I distinctly remember that the initial draw I had to Zutara was because Aang was too young for me to like him being paired with Katara. I found it so disturbing and actively avoided the romantic scenes between them. Seeing S3 didn’t help when Katara disguised herself as Aang’s PREGNANT MOTHER. 😂 So 13-14 year old me only saw Zuko as the viable option. I have more reasonable reasons to ship Zutara now (you only need to watch Sneezy Reviews’ videos to understand why) but i think I would have been less resistant to the thought of Kataang if they had hooked up when they were older.
So shipping aside, none of the main ATLA cast should have ended up with anyone except Suki and Sokka. That’s my take. And if Bryke had really wanted to die on the Kataang hill, they should have let them hook up off screen.
Zutara be like:
“Ok, so, have you played Fire boy and water girl?”
Lol
Funny thing -- I have XD that was my jam for some time
@@holyrandomness5654 It was one of the only games I wouldn't play the character with the water theme/abilities (that was, and still is, one of my favourite elements, obsessively so as a kid), and that was just because I couldn't use WASD, I was only good with arrow keys LMFAO
I was thinking the exact same thing xD 😂
Reylo shippers:Finally! A worthy opponent! Our battle shall be legendary!
Honestly the biggest reason I remember shipping the two of them was because Zuko was the only person in the gaang that didn’t see Katara as a mother figure
Yeah just a sister figure... EWW!
What people don't understand is how much the show depicts the bargaining stage of grief... Zuko lost a father because he never had a loving dad to raise him, Iroh lost his only son in the war. Zuko & Iroh filled the void of those relationships with each other. Iroh became Zuko's father figure & Zuko became like a 2nd son to Iroh. The parallel between Azula's character & Katara are absolutely undeniable. It works the same way.... Zuko found the caring sister he never had through his relationship with Katara. It's super weird that most the Avatar community accepts this as unspoken fact but there are still people years later trying to ship Zuko & Katara together. It's gross & those people clearly don't see the deeper story. I'm well aware they are shipped at points in the comics but still I think the show ended it on the perfect note for those 2 characters. It was never meant to be a romantic connection. They are basically siblings. stop shipping them because it's really just gross 🤷♀🤢🤮
@@samanthaperez9891
"There basically siblings so stop shipping them it's gross"
They never really refer each other as siblings nor their blood related some of the writers and even some voice actors of the show ship zutara so it's not really a big deal, if you think their relationship are siblings go ahead idrc but at the end of the day people are free to ship them since their not really blood related nor grow up with each other to prove that their relationship are sibling coded
@@Shribbuvuv_ Yeah just like at the end of the day I'm allowed to think it's gross af... I also don't recall addressing you in anyway so if you truly "don't really care" why waste your time typing up an opposition against my opinion?? It's giving contrary 🤡 it's really not that big of a deal you right, so I can & will continue posting my opinions on subject matter I find of interest on my accounts & socials, your opinion can differ but it is in no way more or less valid than mine & we are both allowed to post comments as we please. So thank you next! ✌
@@samanthaperez9891
Im not saying your opinion of their relationship being platonic isn't valid im just saying that you can't expect everyone to think zuko and katara's relationship would be always platonic and shit,
yes i clearly don't care if you think their siblings the only reason i care is because your earlier post of this comment is like saying that it's literally ILLEGAL to ship Zutara because of you think it's platonic
"Stop shipping them it's gross"
It's like if your telling all of us that zutara is illegal or disgusting
Like we get it, it's your opinion
But the way that comment sounds like your kinda (act like) forcing people to not ship them because of that..
I mean if you wanna share about your opinion of them being platonic in your eyes cool, but that sentence that you made earlier is like saying that you think that's more canon and should be illegal to ship them rather than an opinion
Or maybe that's it's just your attitude and tone that's why it's sounds like that idk who knows
If that's not your true intentions than ok 👌✌
Anyways have a nice day, random stranger that might probably led this reply section into an internet argument cause of a cartoon ship, depending of what type your next reply is or just ignore it¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This ship sounds steamy... Get it? Because they are fire and water?
...I'll leave.
Good one! 😂
That joke is old enough to drink in Europe
Yeah, but fire and water don't mix well.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don't leave, i liked it LOL
Thinking about zutara is so interesting because even zuko's voiceactor made an audio in zukos character to confess his love for katara, like this ship commitment is WILD
That and Jake Long which has the main couple voiced by Zuko's and Katara's voice actors
And Mae (Kataras VA) ships them. And Iroh (in the fire nation book post series). And the actor for Iroh (#2) shipped Zutara. Also Azula’s VA.
Even the bloody cabbage merchant VA ships zutara.
@@jaydencparker4968 sauce ?
Dante Basco (zuko's VA) read a poem about it during a fan meet 😂
Anybody got a link to that?
Zuko x Therapy is my favourite ship
I heard of this one. I ship it.
@@wendyadams7093Gaara, Kevin, Hunter, Catra, Azula, Marcie: *First time?*
@@falconeshield Zuko:Oh no. This is my sixth visit.
@@wendyadams7093Oh you know he sits right next to Jin Kazama and bond over their lost moms.
@@falconeshield Lloyd:So your dad?
Zuko: What do you think?
Todoroki:Knew it.
Katara doesnt love their mom more than Sokka, What Katara has is Survivors guilt.. cause remember, mom died to safe HER the actual water bender..
Didn't she only find that out in the southern raiders episode? She knew the fire nation killed her mom, but she left to go find her dad so she didn't hear her mom claim to be a water bender. So IDK if she'd blame herself like that before she even knew why her mom was killed.
She doesn’t even say she loved Mom more just that the way she loved her mom might have been different. Which makes sense given just a few episodes ago Sokka literally says that he can’t remember their mom’s face, when he tries to he just pictures Katara’s. Bc Katara tried to fill her mother’s shoes as a caregiver as well as being a sister, just like Sokka tried to fill the shoes of a warrior and protector of the tribe.
As @imat-rex stated, Katara didn’t know her mother died protecting her until she confronted Yon Rha. So your point is about as factually wrong as could be. IDK how you got so many likes.
Yeah but she did still say that cruel words IN THE SHOW
@@falconeshield And she didn't mean it. She's 14
That "It should have been me" Yugioh cutaway is 10 times more funny for a German because in the german dub Yami Yugi and Zuko have the same voice actor.
That serious scene became a meme because DAN GREEN did it too good
LOL!
That IS funny. 🤣
Perfect
you call it delusion, I call it having a vision
They are firmly in the friends stage of enemies to friends to lovers. This ship could absolutely succeed (if not for LoK).
Just imagine, she dates Aang for like 2 months before they break up (difference in maturity, realise they're better off as friends, whatever). She and Zuko get closer and start spending more time together. A few months after that (or years if you like slow burn) they share a kiss and get together.
Agreed👏🏽
A cactus juice induced vision
@@chrisjacobsen7265 Not the first time a drug induced hallucination brought about greatness :3
@nix_| If instead of LOK, we got a show continuing on aang and everyone else’s story, the fandom wouldn’t shit on it so much. (Also I would definitely hire you as a writer because I totally agree that should have happened😭😭😭)
I read the Earth Kingdom Chronicles (a book that covers the ATLA character's perspectives in Book 2) and Katara's ideal guy is basically just Zuko lmao. She flat out says she was attracted to Jet because he's a determined and brave older guy that she can lean on rather than mother. Meanwhile Zuko's perspective has him liking Jin because she's sweet and nice, and he worries about Song's kindness making him "soft". In the animated series, he doesn't like Mai's lack of passion and empathy. Zuko and Katara were basically perfect for each other but never realized it.
Blud is over here restarting a war 😭
Netflix did it first hahaha
@@falconeshield agreed, it started back with netflix .
There should never be a war lol. Kataang is canon and makes sense in the story they wrote, and the only people mad about it are coping over Zutara not being a thing
But everything change when Netflix attack
@@twizms7362fr the majority of people are kataang shippers and are happy they ended to together.
Its just a loud minority of zutara shippers
I LOVE seeing people say "Zuko had the best redemption arc in media history" and when someone ships Katara with him they go "Oh they would be so unhealthy bc he's a bad boy" make up your minddd
this 😭😭
SERIOUSLY.
I'm not even a huge Zutara shipper (I like my strong platonic crew more, though some romance can be fun) and it annoys me a bit LMAO. Do y'all think he's better or not??
Sounds like Nifty
I HATE THIS, I'm not even a Zutara shipper (though this video made me start thinking) but anytime i saw this argument, i felt i was being brainwashed, so people can talk about how Zuko's redemption is well written and the best one in cartoon media, yet treat him like Katara's potential abuser is just, insultingly hilarious to me, like, pick a side, is he good or not??
Just because Zuko had a great redemption arc doesn't mean they are healthy together. They are still BOTH people with high tempers and people with similar temperaments often don't have great relationships. Can they work it out, yes? But they work better as friends than in a romantic relationship.