BLTouch vs. 3DTouch - Should you save some money and buy the clone?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2024
- For 3D Printers, the BLTouch is the gold standard bed sensor. The knockoffs coming from China are looking so close to the original I though I would test one of them out. Can the original really be worth four times as much money?
To everyone who says I didn't connect the wires correctly: I did. I hacked on this sensor and got it working, but I'm not about to show you guys how to spend a couple of hours of your life to get a stolen design working. Support original creators. Buy genuine.
![[Устарело] BLTouch. Стоит ли покупать? Установка, прошивка, калибровка. На примере Tevo Tornado](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oJgKQKbN8nE/mqdefault.jpg)
I bought a 3D Touch and couldn't get it to work out of the box - exactly the same behaviour as shown in the video here. Flashing red light (error mode), but if issued with a reset command, appeared to 'sense' correctly. This made me think that the issue was likely to be with the servo. I checked the contact points on the board where the two wires from the coil connect, with a multimeter and confimed the continuity of the coil, but was only able to get very intermittent connection with the multimeter. A quick 'dab' with my soldering iron to reflow the coil connection points on the board (very quick - as the coil wires are very thin and will burn out quickly if heat is applied for too long) and the servo is now working perfectly.
I don't usually leave comments, but I hope this helps someone out. I'm guessing that this was exactly the same issue as the one shown in the video here - it's just I was going for a "can I diagnose an fix it" mentality, rather than "can I destroy it" as seen here!
Hey ben. New to 3d printing. I’m printing my
First print now. With my ocd and newbie self. I spent an hour with a piece of paper and leveling bed for Ender 3. And you’ still don’t know if it’s almost perfect just acceptable. Now the wire that you soldered. Was it on the outside of the casing where the socket is or inside the device? This is more just in case. I seen your post was recent so maybe it’s a quality control issue.
@@drakevelazquez8728 The solder points I retouched are on the external side of the PCB - no dissasembly needed to get to them. They're either side of the connector. I've highlighted them in blue here:
imgur.com/a/60lHYmw
This "demonstration" was clearly staged. Naive people deserve to spend multiples of what products are really worth so they can feel like they got what they paid for. I suspect this crusader was probably paid by the BLtouch folks. To me, that's cheating if you don't say you're being paid.
i have knock of 3d touch to get it work. y need to rotate screw on top of it to get position of permanent magnet just right. Otherwise the sensor pin won't move.
Tried it. Didn't help in my case. Still flashing red on commands.
The real thieves are the ones charging $40 for a $5 product
That's probably the most idiotic comment ive ever read. It might cost $5 to manufacture, but you first gotta pay for the tooling to have it made as well as the means of distribution, advertising, and of course profit. Because without profit motive, none of these products you claim are made by thieves would ever even be invented. Have you ever stopped to consider how many products a company makes that turn out to be total failures vs how many actually sell? All of that factors in. You clearly flunked basic economics and/or are a democrat and believe everything should be handed to you free of charge.
@@LBCAndrew it cost 30cents to make if even that. Like smart phones cost around 10$ to make but get sold for around a grand when just coming out.
@@goldenfox334 i agree that the bl touch is overpriced, but not by that much and its not that bad for smartphone also.
The real problem is engeneering, that costs money and i agree with him on that, but at the same time is 100% his fault for not reading the instructions on the 3d touch that specified a slightly differeny wire order than the bl touch (probably to avoid getting a lawsuit)
An entire printer costs $200, a fancy switch that costs $40 is certainly overpriced. My printer has servo+microswitch probe and it has 0.0012 deviation
@@victornpb well, that mindset is flawed... what if your printer is a custom one that costs 2000. If i do a gold plated case for a smartphone that costs 400$, that'd be dumb, but the gold would still cost what it costs... and developpment costs a lot.
Despite beeing a copy, those Clones work pretty much the same as the Original. I had both. But, I think Your Clones weren´t faulty, You just didn´t connect them correctly. There are 3.3V and 5V Versions AND Sometimes the Colors from the Wires do not Match the Original. So please when rewieving You should Rule that out first. In the End it seems to be just a rant and justification to buy the Original ones. I support the Inventors if I am able to, but sometimes their Things are way beyond my Budget, so that I have to resort either to much more time collecting the Money or simply buy what is affordable to me. Regards
I have now tested it at 3.3v. I scratched the little trace on the PCB to change it to 3.3v logic and it does the exact same behavior. The colors on the wiring loom match the BLTouch. Don't get me wrong, I know how to get this probe working. But to really get it to 100% functionality would require flashing the actual BLTouch firmware onto the probe. Which would require me to rewrite that code (I doubt AntClabs is sharing their source code, and I don't blame them). I'm not about to help some thieves in China sell knockoffs by teaching people how to get their broken product to work. Even I did, it's not worth your time to fight with the inferior product trying to get it to work. 3D printing has enough issues. Why give yourself more issues to deal with? Just support the original creator and get the product that you know will work.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Yeah, thanks for replying. One thing that came to me about the wiring. One of my knockoffs had a different Pinout from the 3 Pin Cable, but I can´t remeber which ones. I had to rewire it and it instantly worked. Keep up with the Stuff, 3D Printing is an amazing Place to get.
@@DesignPrototypeTest inferior? little dramatic eh?
This video looks like propaganda to me. Running the clone with the original coding then saying the clone is faulty, when what you should be doing is going to the website the clone offers in the packaging to run the code that is compatible with the product you are using. This is like biting into an arctic apple and spitting it out saying "Dear god.. this doesn't taste anything like a granny smith!! It looks like a granny smith.. it's green.. but it doesn't taste anything like it! THIS IS JUNK!" Kudo's on you for presenting a case that doesn't hold up under a scope and then throwing morality around like you're at a pulpet. "ALL YE SINNERS BE MARKED AND SHAMED BY THE SIIIIIIIINS OF THE DEVIL! THY SHALL NOT WANT THY NEIGHBORS BLTOUCH!" Thank satan for China then because they are the only reason we aren't still paying $10+ per watt for solar cells and why prusa clones are now $120.
@@reforgedcriterion1471 pretty sure it was a wiring issue and not anything else .
First video by this guy that I've watched.
And the last.
Yeah unbelievable. If everyone who receives a faulty electronical devices makes a video about it, TH-cam would be like 50% complaint videos
@@Gromic2k he doesn’t even have any reason why i should pay 40€ instead 7€ incl shipping..
he likes to complain a lot.
My clone BLtouch still works to this day. I enquired about being a reseller of the genuine item, but I guess because I only wanted 10 to start off I wasn't a big enough sale and I was never replied to. Guess I'll sell the clones instead.
Yeeeah, 10 is hardly resale though. 100 would be a better starting quantity. When you ask for 10 at supplier pricing you seem like someone who just wants to get a cheap genuine product and make a few bucks from selling the others on ebay and never doing business again.
@@b5a5m5 10 Might not be bad as a feeler to sell at little to no profit before taking on larger quantities. Depending on how fast they sell, that could be a good indicator for how viable a bulk order is to get a good ROI.
I have a 3Dtouch and it works perfectly since 6 months ago. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way.
Yeah, this was nonsense "comparison".
I have a 3d Touch much cheaper and it's good
@@ichbinderalgorithmus2019 Hi,
I've just installed a 3Dtouch sensor with aluminum pin. How do you improve accuracy? I run several bed leveling with so bad results:
M48 results
range 0.211
range 0.087
range 0.171
range 0.144
Any suggestion is appreciated.
@@Nobody-Nowhere he might have bogged it on purpose seeing how political he gets.
3Dtouch works perfectly on my printer. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way.
You are not the first person to leave this comment. Read the Description.
@@DesignPrototypeTest 3Dtouch works perfectly on my printer. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way.
@@DesignPrototypeTest 3Dtouch works perfectly on my printer. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way.
@@DesignPrototypeTest 3Dtouch works perfectly on my printer. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way
@@DesignPrototypeTest 3Dtouch works perfectly on my printer. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way.
There's a good chance these come out of the same factory. After the BL touch contract was over they just kept running it. Happens all the time.
I dont care who my money goes to. i just want a product that works without paying 400x the component cost.
Screw weighs .01grams more = Downgrade. Man the x carriage of most machines weighs over 9000 times more than that screw. The screw isn't going to make much difference.
Screw is upgrade, not melted plastic blob.
I bought a copy and got it working first try when I wired according to instructions that came with it. I usually prefer to support the original manufacturer but as the OG bltouch costs half of my crappy printer then in this case I went with a copy and to be honest the OG guys didn't lose anything as I would have not bought it for that price anyway.
Was I the only one who was screaming "CHISEL! START WITH THE CHISEL!" and was deeply disappointed....
How much weight do you save on a plasic pin vs metal screw?
Yeah. That is a bit of a stretch. I adlibbed the dialogue, and couldn't easily remove that statement in editing. Still, if you are going to put a screw for easy access to the guts, why would you then glue it shut?
Design Prototype Test maybe the screw is used to clamp and align the board as the glue sets? Yeah, I think that little weight would be meaningless compared to the other heavier components on the hot end carriage and assembly
The author of this video is just a smug social justice warrior. He couldn't troubleshoot the simple connection issue with this device if he tried. Don't listen to anything he has to say. He doesn't even understand that the 3d Touch design is not patented or moreover that Chinese culture doesn't believe in patents in the first place. He probably shot this video on an overpriced iphone and did the crappy editing on his $8K mac book pro...
@@chrisheller2295 I'm willing to bet money that this is exactly how he did it! $2, since I'm the target audience of 3D touch and that's how I found this video...
Probably like a 100kg weight saving
One thing I like about how China handles IP, is that it forces you to innovate, you can't just rest on a patent and keep making the same crap year after year, instead in order to succeed you have to adapt and innovate faster than your competition can copy your IP.
Your reasoning is why patents expire after 20 years. Often it takes 20 years to recuperate the cost of doing R&D. The idea is that innovators don't go bankrupt and die off. As a society we need to reward the valuable people who do the hard work to make things better.
@@DesignPrototypeTest That only makes sense if it is an easily copyable design that took a long time to develop, but that is the exception not the norm, and even in that exceedingly rare situation the developer would still retain the advantage of being first to market and would have a massive head start against their competition.
@@DesignPrototypeTest There are a number of problems though:
1. Many patents now a days are just rediculous, look at some of apples patents
2. Patents are used to block competitors (for instance Lego's famous patents)
3. If you create something FROM scratch which is the same as a existing patent or close you're screwed
4. Patents are used to BLOCK undesirable technologies and HALT progress. For instance the electric car
Also keep in mind the BLTouch is completely crowd funded. Thus the resulting design should be public domain in any case!
@@DesignPrototypeTest 20 year patents on any tech is completely ridiculous, look how much technology has developed in 20 years. There were patents on having printers enclosed or having motors outside of the heated chamber, they are basic concepts that anyone developing a printer could come up with, so why should one company be the only ones allowed to do it because they got the patent first? Patents in fast moving tech fields like 3D printing should be 1 or 2 years max. Giving out long patents just means that development suffers.
If you still have it, try powering the duet from your 12/24 supply to get more current on the 5v rail. I believe the electromagnetic portion of these requires more current. Also, I'm sure there is a firmware difference as well, which could be another source of some problems, even if the 3d touch was working.
Absolute nonsense.
The clones work just fine and cost less than half the price.
Strange, it looks like the 3D touch has gone through some design iterations (or the clones are all called 3D Touch, but designed by different companies?) The one I have is all SMT with four SOT23s forming an H-bridge to drive the solenoid, a teeny-tiny SMT hall sensor and an ATTiny2313 as the brains of the operation. Like yours it doesn't seem to do much other than a slow red flash. I brought another one more recently which is yet again another design, but this does follow servo commands, but the output is floating so looks like it needs some firmware tweaking to make it work.
Even the original BLTouch will fail after some period of time (two weeks in my case) when running on 3.3V. The Duet Z axis input handles any voltage up to 30 volts, so there is no reason to use a 3.3V supply voltage power supply.
Do not test horizontally, they use HELP of gravity, (I think), to lower the pin. the BLTOUCH has a Hall effect sensor to sense the magnet
Thanks man! My pin was stuck inside my “smart” one and you helped me get into it and fix it!
U need to magnetize the servo rod. Simple fix.
"immoral"... such a bullshit. If it's cheaper and still works then it's the best option to buy.
Obviously the guy who stole your bicycle is a bad person. How do you feel about the guy who bought your bike from the first guy that stole it? How do you feel when he absolutely knew it was stolen, and he even knew it was stolen from you specifically? How do you feel knowing the guy who steals bikes ONLY steals them because people will buy them knowing they are stolen because "it's cheaper and still works." Buying cloned products is the same as buying stolen bicycles. You've stolen a sale from the original inventor/creator.
@@DesignPrototypeTest and even it works HA!
@@DesignPrototypeTest The guy didn't steal his bike - He looked at how it worked, took notes and made a copy out of cheaper materials. (You in essence did this yourself here th-cam.com/video/dspdCqKWHYI/w-d-xo.html) I own a BL Touch - but considering the manner in which the device operates, it's far pricier than it needs to be. Support creators where you can for sure, but if some poor bastard barely makes any money and wants to get into the space on a budget? Go for it. People in developing nations too - they aren't gonna be able to justify $40.
This is a natural thing that happens in business and capitalism. If you can't (or are unwilling) compete on price then you make up the ground elsewhere and hope consumers see your value as greater. Antlabs know what's going on and can sue if they have a patent on it. If they haven't, then its clear they know this fact and are understandably confident in their offering. They certainly don't need people shaming other individuals and bringing a negative spotlight on their userbase.
@@DesignPrototypeTest This comparison makes no sense whatsoever.
I kind of agree about the cheap knockouts, I did buy the original back then. On the other hand I cannot justify 40$ for a damn sensor when this is what an entire motherboard costs... I definitely think the BLTouch is highly overpriced for the cost of production and the tech involved, 20$ would be acceptable.
th-cam.com/video/xqttz2IZ6ko/w-d-xo.html
i almost got me a cheap one, dident se the label was 3dtouch not BL touch, but wanted to se it in action and landed on your video.
The Triangle Lab’s 3D Touch work’s perfect for me. It’s have HS (high speed) functionality like the original. If you want to buy, take care to buy BL touch (original) or Triangle Lab (clone).
I've actually tested both as well and had the same issue with both genuine and clones. The same applied to Duet boards (authentic and clone). Politics and morals aside, I ended up learning a bunch when the clone Duet boards I ordered once didn't have ANY jumpers pre-installed. I went through several authentic and clone BLTouch sensors (and other Z-axis sensors) but what I discovered was that there are voltage setting differences in the PCBs and with the Duet boards (not sure about other boards). Without any jumpers installed neither authentic or clone would work. With the proper voltage jumpers set, both worked just fine and in an identical fashion. What's sad is that even the BLTouch documentation is so piss poor that it barely assisted the troubleshooting process. Even the OEM of the BLTouch could stand to improve their product and documentation, especially if they are charging a premium. I've also learned not to expect anything to "just work" when it comes to 3D printing parts. However, I always come out of the experience learning something.
Clones are fine. Price difference is not insane anymore (100 vs 20$), now it's 45 vs 20$ usd. Original is good to go too.
The problem is that the original BLtouch is hideously overpriced. I mean, $40 is a lot to pay for a magnet, a coil and a PCB when a whole 3D printer costs just $230. Someone saw the opportunity to charge half the price and they did, and now they're raking in all the budget-conscious consumers. That's capitalism for you.
Also, your comment about the screw being worse because it adds weight is laughable. A screw adds a fraction of a gram. No 3D printer will feel the difference when it's hauling around a hotend weighing hundreds of grams. If anything it's better because screws can be taken apart and re-assembled, whereas the only way to disassemble the original bltouch is to irreversibly break that plastic tab, or try to melt and bend it, then melt and bend it back.
With the glue applied, the screw provides no extra benefit of ability to disassemble.
@@JasperJanssen I'll agree there, but also with the original poster: the weight of the screw is absolutely negligible and will make no real world difference. There's not even any guarantee that the original unit as a whole weighs less since weights for the two side by side were not provided.
I will say: I have an original BLTouch that was faulty and a knockoff 3DTouch that works fine. Either one can make a defective product. The video poster also explicitly showed that he ordered a pack of two of them and never went on to test (or at least mention testing) the second one to see if it was also faulty.
Wasn't the BL Touch open source? From the crowdfunder: "BLTouch is an auto leveling sensor for 3D Printers based on open-source."
But then in the FAQ, it says:
"6. Do you have any patents?
We have several patents and some are on patent pending.
And we have already completed the patent application for this project."
It seems to me that they implied it would be open source, but then have applied for patents.
In any case, an endstop sensor is not a new idea. A magnetically triggered endstop switch is not a new idea. I'd think the most they could get anyone on is copyright on the exact appearance.
"You don't understand open source" is a video I made to address this issue. You might want to watch it before you continue to argue this viewpoint: th-cam.com/video/iKhn5IcVvAg/w-d-xo.html
You're wrong!......so here watch my other videos.. Typical youtube content provider troll..
Thanks too you I'm sure my next one will "work"
i bought a generic one off ebay for $15.99 with free shipping and it works great on my cr10s5 only issue i had was the black and white wires were backward
What part of "Don't buy stolen things" is hard to understand? Bragging on the internet that you didn't get screwed despite your immoral actions is a pretty low class thing to do. You would hate the guy who stole your bicycle with a firery passion. Isn't the guy who buys your stolen bike knowing it was stolen from you just as worthy of your hate. Without him buying the bicycle the thief would not have stolen it in the first place. Of course you don't care until it's happening to you. You are happy to be the criminal but you will scream as loud as you can when you are the victim. Hypocrite.
@@DesignPrototypeTest take it up with the chinese and the copyright people, if the person has a patent on it then they can take all of these people to court, if they dont have one then its free game for anyone to make a clone of it and its not illegal to do so, read up on copyright before calling someone a criminal for buying something cheaply
@@DesignPrototypeTest Cloning isn't the same as stealing, you absolute moron!
@@DesignPrototypeTest You're telling me you've NEVER bought aftermarket part of anything? Do you always buy say parts from Ford, Toyota, Honda or whatever and pay full MSRP for them?
Now that I know your video was COMPLETELY BS based on your extreme bias towards the origination of the product, rather than the product itself.... guess what pal, I just bought two "knockoffs" for under $18 bucks.
THANKS!
@@DesignPrototypeTest No one stole anyone's bike. Intellectual property is the biggest scam ever invented by the capitalistic system. It prevents progress in society but you couldn't bother digging, you prefer shallow thinking.
Stop pretending you have high morals. You probably still eat meat not thinking about the consequences.
I was hoping to see the performance compared
I got the black version of this, which seems to be better quality. Other than that I had to resolder the two thin wires from the coil to the PCB (it was my fault, not the product's) it worked great. I noticed that it seemed to be slightly larger, even when retracted the probe was still below the nozzle, so I had to use an adjustable mount. You just got a dud
I got 2 duds. They both behaved the exact same.
3Dtouch works perfectly on my printer. You just need to connect the cables in the correct way.
P.S Saving weigh without screw was epic.
Yeah, look at the weight of that hotend and how much he is fixated on that tiny screw. It will be less that 1% of the weight of the whole hotend but he is acting like it makes a large difference. Yes cheaper products are made with cheaper techniques, doesnt necessarily make them worse.
I buy these in sets of 2 or 3 at a time and so far they have all produced very similar precision(one is even better) as my genuine bltouch. I can buy 4 shipped for about $40.50 WITH 100CM wiring and steel mount and hardware to mount it on ender 3/geetech printers.
You need to test them in a vertical orientation. Gravity matters. This is how they are supposed to operate.
That wasn't the problem.
If you read the manual it will work.
The 3D touch is not an exact clone of the BLTouch.
The settings are a little different.
In the box is a male to male pis connector.
The bag 10:12 you left in the box.
This video is simple propaganda.. It was part of his contract for receiving "A" free original bl touch. Watch him try to refute the matter with all the offense he can muster.
Hi. I'm just working on fitting a BL Touch to a FLSUN Q5. I intend to change the motherboard to a Duet 2 WIFI after watching one of your previous videos. I have an idea of how to get the BL Touch mounted, but my question is, what is the minimum distance it should be mounted in proximity to the Hotend, due to the temperature damaging the probe? I will be using the part cooling fan you designed so I suppose that will prevent heat radiating out to far, and with a silicon sock on the hotend. Just wondered if anyone has considered this question before, or has an answer from the manufacturer with a limit? Probably over designing but a fact that should be considered.
I really appreciate you take the effort to make many videos, and I have to say I have learned a lot from your videos. -- thank you for that.
But man, I really have to speak up about something: in the world of tech, we follow laws, if there is a patent, the copycats will get punished by the law.
The whole 3D printing phenomenon is built on top of expired patents. There is a very good reason for patents to have an expiration date. -- knowledge sharing makes the whole society much more productive.
But we want to reward innovators as well, so we give them copyrights.
If you think making a cheap clone product off some non-copyrighted item is immoral, I want to argue:
A. Discover a cheaper method to manufacture itself, it's a type of innovation.
B. To make a product non-necessarily expensive, should be equally immoral.
Here is the reality: the Chinese didn't really innovate, they just have a lower-cost production environment - the currency, the policy, the labor, etc. But they didn't do anything immoral.
Antclabs is not immoral as well, the western production is just costly.
Oh, I got it, this called: CAPITALISM!
This has nothing to do with morals.
As a Chinese myself, I moved to the US 12 years ago. I know how it feels to be poor. Capitalism left millions of people out of poverty, this included putting 3D printers into people's hands who only make $300 USD a month. --I thank capitalism for that.
And some of them have a $15 3D touch instead of a $40 BL touch. I don't think this is immoral.
The world is bigger than the US and China, there is Africa, the middle east, south America and more, there're a lot more people who need affordable products than we realize.
So, please, stop spreading hatred - if there's no tribalism and the trade war, Antclabs probably can find a cheap manufacturer somewhere in Asia, and make it BL touch $17 with good quality control.
See what I'm saying? In this whole thing, there is nothing to do with morals.
You can feel free to trash on any silly products, in fact, I encourage you to do that, this can help manufacturers to make better products, but Please stop spreading hatred.
I hope you can keep the good work, I really enjoy watching most of your videos, maybe my comment can change the way you look at the whole situation a bit - toward the good direction. Cheers.
Yeah the main focus should always be to put technology in as much hands as possible. When you see that European companies like weller are selling basic soldering station for 200€, hobbyist wouldn't go very far if that was the only option.
Just cause its a knock off does not make it worse. I've have the geniunie version and it fried itself after three months of use. decided to buy a cheaper version and been running great for over a year, never had issues,
"fried iteslf" HA! This always means user error. In the bike shop world we called this JRA www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JRA It was always a Karen wanting to get free stuff by claiming warranty who would claim this. I doubt your vague claim. If you ever owned a genuine BLTouch, and it did fail, it was more than likely caused by something you did wrong.
functions perfectly... but never used it?
Servo wire is backwards. That is why its it giving an error at the very beginning.
My BLtouch, needs to be reset when it doesn’t work, pull out the pin and power cycle. Maybe the same issue on the 3Dtouch.
My original BlTouch V3.1 had the same problem that the 3DTouch showed in the video, I fixed it by adjusting the hex screw (I've tightened it a little) the problem went away... I think you could have solved the problem by doisng the same as I did =D
While the BLTouch does probably have better accuracy and is able to sense better values, if all you want is the ability to start your print without the constant frustration of leveling the bed and getting it wrong and all that, the 3DTouch will be just as good as the Original without any difference. I have the 3DTouch and I love that I can just turn on the printer and print without an hour of configuration first.
Hello, could you tell me the approximate diameter of the copper wire of the winding of the probe or how many resistive ohms?
God your still at it ain’t you I loved your old videos. Like when you did the three in one cheAp printer review or tried to do 3 color prints. But man you really let this stuff get to you to much you saying something is stolen isn’t gonna change anyone’s views on it and I really hate to say this but with your standing in the community as of late and all the prusa drama you were involved in. I’m gonna say you broke the clones first or didn’t install it properly I got 5 of the clones all work but and i can give you proof the one Bl touch I bought didn’t work so how does that work. But I’m guessing since prusa wouldn’t give you a free printer. But duet and bl touch did give you free stuff you pretty much bow and kiss there .... well you know hope you go back to good content and not this crazy your right everyone’s wrong thing
Yeah, No. It seems like you are saying you loved my stuff when I was following Prusa's lead, and now that I do things on my own you don't like me anymore. You know there is a whole lot more to 3D printing than what Prusa has to offer. I'm going to keep talking about it. Maybe you should consider unsubscribing. Since you don't care about stolen/copycat/clone designs do you think I should do a whole video about that perfect Prusa Mk3 clone and tell all of my viewers to go buy that one for half the price of the genuine Prusa?
if you wanna do a video like that be my guest it would be better than you fanboying over every new product that sponsors you. On another note i don’t own a Prusa printer. I actually have a custom anycubic i3 and a voron 2.1. that’s how i found your videos looking for someone who was doing new things. but you feed into the drama i’m not telling you to stop being yourself. but it’s seems like you are always trying to prove everyone wrong. i loved it when you were showing us how to add new stuff to our printer not this clone copy stealing this crap your on now. you didn’t need to make a video about how crappy a clone is we know it’s probably never gonna be as good as the real deal but when your a student with little money sometime you have to cut corners just to afford a printer and the problems with the clones a lot of the time make it so you can learn how to make stuff work buy fixing it and problem solving i just hate that almost every video from you is your trying to make people be like you and not buy clones. it’s not your fight and it’s never gonna stop screw that war and just start showing us how to add the new not always sponsored tech that you were finding you always found the coolest stuff and showed us how to make our cheap crappy clones better i want that Design Prototype Test channel back not this super oh don’t buy this or your a bad person crap as of late sorry if i came off as a prusa fan boy. i do like prusa tho ain’t gonna lie but i like your content in that same way just miss the old videos
and ya make a video like crt did cloning the prusa i’m sure the whole community would love it because you would i’m sure add your original tweaks and it would be great but i think that’s not your style.
Yeah he obviously broke these somehow or don't know how to use them. You can't install them exactly like BLTouch. TH-cam is full of people installing these and getting them to work just fine.
Clone BLTouch sensors need some changes in the firmware. But not worth it. I still have one somewhere. I bought an original one after the clone because yes it was working too but because of the cheap quality my first layers never was right. With the original one I had no issues from that very moment I installed it and it's still perfect after a year. Get the original one if you want to spare yourself from being annoyed.
Hello, i don't know where you buy this clone. Normaly you have a comb for wire
3d touch work good for Ender 5, with 4x4 point
How is the probe pin removed on the BL Touch (without breaking it), is it the screw on top?
Yes
If you hadnt worked that out 4 months later 😂
So in short, if they clone the name as well, it must be genuine and therefore better quality because of the lettering. WOW! Who would have thought?
Interesting, do you know that BLTouch is also sold as a licence ? For example Geeetech build the 3DTouch wich is made under license of Antclabs
THIS is interesting! Do you have a source for it? I'm on the fence about cloned hardware. For the record I purchased two 3D Touch probes. One DOA and the other was good intermittently. Replaced it with a BLTouch and it worked perfectly.
However, if it wasn't for cloning designs the 3D printer market would look very different price-wise. I am actually surprised that it's taken so long for a mass-market release of a sensor the employs an optical sensor (in the CR Touch) using the same electromagnetic deployment as the BLTouch.
What program is it that you are using? I'm new to printing and I am curious.
th-cam.com/video/pKLSTQcFTUI/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for posting! We've been missing your great content.
I guess you just pay what's worth it for you... I bought a Geeetech A30 with a 3DTouch (first gen clone), A30 had mayor bugs and issues, and the 3Dtouch don't always pushed the Pin down so sometimes it crashed into the bed... It was such a horrible experience for my first printer so I bought a Duet Maestro 2 + original Bltouch, some Sunon Fans and after that, it's a great printer.
The BLTouch is not much better. Its repeat accuracy is better but its failures are the same. Rarely can I get a complete bed level scan without the BLTouch faulting (failing to deploy probe) and flashing. BLTouch support blamed it on the +5V power. I replaced the power supply with a much more accurate supply and put a scope on it. The BLTouch still fails but support refuses to do anything other than blame the power supply.
Are you a real person? Why does your channel have no content? Usually you can see subscriptions, and playlists, or an odd/random uploaded video for a typical "real" person on TH-cam. Clicking on your username only shows "This channel doesn't have any content"
@@DesignPrototypeTest well how do I test that? I have no idea why you tube doesn't show you subscriptions
You should probably upload a single video of yourself if you don't want to be perceived as a troll/bot account. Maybe there is a 'privacy' setting that you clicked on to hide all of your account details from the world. Being so secretive about your identity makes you seem like an agent or a bot.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I'm just a guy who enjoys 3D printing and do a lot of my own testing. On this video I found BLtouch to be faulty with poor support. Unfortunately the 3D touch I had was worse. Neither was a plug in and run and neither I would buy again.
The actual problem with the BLTouch I have is the pin sticks and the temporary fix I figured out was when it faults (often at powerup it fails to pass its self test) I have to manually pull the pin down then select the macro to reset BLTouch alarms. The BLTouch will then work for some amount of time then fail to deploy again. If I repeat home Z after 5+ homes it will fail again.
Note as a by the by you tested the sensor holding it horizontal and not vertical. The sensor including the BLTouch is more apt to fail in any position other than perfectly upright to reduce drag on the pin.
Hardware fails and the true test of a manufacturer is how their support works. BLTouch simply re-directs and blames something else in my experience.
The positive side to Asian manufactured product is people expect it to be throw away and get little to no support. The reason for buying more expensive non Asian is for the support. Often it is not there and it is just more expensive. The funny part is non Asian is often still manufactured in Asia.
I watch videos in 2 different perspectives:
1 - for my information where I can extract bias and get the info I am looking for on a product.
2 - for the growth and expansion of the 3D printing community - newbies joining us.
For the newbies joining:
You likely seen my negative comments on video's that are very negative. I noticed of late that evaluaters on 3D print products wandered down the path to slam products. Videos are created for the reason of telling people this is junk. Slamming products and being negative in no way helps growing the 3D printing community. The reason for this is the odd thing you say positive three other evaluaters will comment negatively on. New people get very confused and do not join us in the community. I have heard people over and over give up on 3D printing because there is no way for them to make up their mind on a product to buy or move to commercial products since help videos basically call everything junk.
I think in part this is due to bias in the evaluation and feeling the need to point out faults. This bias should not be there but of course its hard not to show it. For example I would believe you are for Delta, non Asian products and intellectual property bias, these products you praise and focus on their benefits. All others your primary focus is on the faults.
On this video I would think you created it with a mindset (I will push this thought to the extreme to make a point) of telling people the 3DTouch is Chinese garbage. How different would the video have been if the mindset was to compare touch sensors? The same point is given but the concept is positive not negative.
People are not dumb and can draw their own conclusions, they want to that is why they are watching!
Example and just points I dreamed up they don't actually reflect my view.
BLTouch benifits
Repeat accuracy of 0.05 mm - higher print starts (words??? lol)
Reliability
Long term life
Stylish
Replacement pin available
Support
3DTouch benifits
Repeat accuracy of 0.2 mm
Inexpensive
You get the point, positive words listing non bias benefits not just benefits to point out the faults of the other products. Build a video around that basic thought and not based on proving its junk.
From the above people can draw a conclusion that 3DTouch does not offer repeat accuracy and Support and make up their own mind on a product. It also shows that first layer could be prone to failing more often with the lower accuracy without actually saying it.
Many people do not want to be "told" what to think and want to think for themselves. Every person watching has their own unique situation different from yours. Your fault conclusions may not apply to their situation. If you had a benefits conclusion they then can apply that to their situation.
One of my observations about people over time has been that people learn the hard way no matter what we say is the saying. That is not exactly true and it is influenced on exactly what we say. If we tell people what to do (the negative thoughts path) they often do the opposite and "learn the hard way". If we discuss benefits positivly they often will not choose the path that we personally know they should not choose.
Negative sales studies showed that if you tell people what is wrong with other manufacturers products that people more often than not will buy that other product.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I have no idea lol. When I tried to put in a message TH-cam said I could not unless I did stuff so I did it until it allowed me to enter a message.
Wow this is a commercial for BLtouch...if you have an st-link it’s relatively easy to fix the clone sensor...
you seem really unsuccessful with anything but a duet board or a genuine bltouch. You may want to start reading the manuals that are around (they also mention NOT to touch the probe with your finger). It took me literally 10 minutes to get my TL clone working in klipper. (but warning you are going to have to install Octoprint + klipper which i know you consider as very difficult first ...). Last but not least : based on your comments it sounds as if you have never been to China. You should as it would change your vision on what a full grown economy is once you see the type of infrastructures you will find there and compare them with your own country.
You need to connect the pins differently on 3dtouch
Please read the description. I connected it correctly.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Did you do #define BLTOUCH_FORCE_SW_MODE in your marlin FW? also if you are using a ver 3 or 3.1 and have the 5v option set comment it out
@@DesignPrototypeTest No you didn't, you put 5v thru it.... small traces with overvolting = fried
@@DesignPrototypeTest Oh and in case you think scratching the 3.3v trace after you put 5v thru, read the marlin firmware... all the info you needed was avail and in front of your face /**
* Danger: Don't activate 5V mode unless attached to a 5V-tolerant controller!
* V3.0 or 3.1: Set default mode to 5V mode at Marlin startup.
You are spreading misinformation, and your goal seems more political than honest / technical
Would be helpful to actually show the differences as to why it doesn't work.
mine just worked perfectly as if it was a bl touch, right out the box, on an skr e3 mini v2
Also I broke it and replaced it with a noname 3d touch without any markings, works also
3D touch on AliExpress comes with it's own chip.
You could also see it like that. Accounting 50 $ for a product not worth 5 bucks. This are thieves with a bigger margin.
i have both, clone needed to be disassembled and align the fotodiode to work correctly and must gave some delay in fw. Genuine has nothing to do it works out of the box. Clone have good accuracy when works. i recommend to buy genuine
There is no "fotodiode"
@@ThePropBender your right, hall sensor
to begin with, it doesn't matter to me all that much!
BUT
if you said that the screw is nonsense and the cheap melting solution is better, I think that is nonsense!
*
now something else:
you're talking about stealing,
but the fake touch is much cheaper ???
*
In addition, there is a lot of talk about open source in the 3D world,.....now not anymore?
*
I would not be surprised if you first bought that fake Touch, ...and when you discovered that this fake Touch did not work ...
;-)
*
in addition, if I would look back the videos of this gentleman who knows what there are fake stuff to see in those videos of him
?
*
(come on, be honest!)
if it's cheaper what do you do? ............
*
Shall I start by being honest? okay then:
I also bought 2 fake Touch, they are still lie on the shelf.
I have not tried them yet because I am afraid of breaking the good software from my 3D printer.
I will test it sometimes with a fake arduino and a fake ramps (am I bad now?)
*
BUT again, I don't care for the rest,
friendly greetings from The Netherlands!
Rob.
This is a message I have been trying to spread for quite a long time. Take a look at this video to see that I am consistent: th-cam.com/video/iKhn5IcVvAg/w-d-xo.html I bought these sensors knowing they would not work. I had a tip from a Patreon supporter.
You are correct 0.006 grams the screw adds to the mass of the head makes a real difference, I think not !
I had that clone. got it working.
but dude. the sensor was all over the place. mesured random around +- 0.3mm on the same spot!
totaly useless.
bought a new original one.
works spot on!
get the real one guys!
Maybe I can be of some use. As I was all over the interference problem when it was not being talked about. Interference and repeatability was a massive problem with these probes. I don't know if it finally got addressed because im not using them anymore. But the only place you would really hear about it was github. Meanwhile people acted like they were just fine. Because of youtubers I suspect. It becomes a big problem when trying to perfect your high temp prints. I think it was overlooked because of how many people print in PLA. But I suspect what you were having was to do with that. Let me tell you how bad I hated the early version and smart version of BLtouch. Those were broken and shielding the wires did nothing. Blame the design on this one buddy. I bet the clone was a copy of the early revisions and this has finally been addressed.
So how do tou know i does not work? Just because the self test is different?
If the self test doesn't even work then it will not work with regular deploy and retract commands either. Let alone the actual sensor operation.
'Screw is a down grade...' up until the point you want to take it apart and reassemble it.
It was still glued together. You saw how much I struggled to take it apart. How many others would break it? Even though it has a screw, it's not disassembleable about the general public.
Look to the number of negative comments on amazon, where original BLTouch is not working. 20%, that is 1 out of 5 original ones are not working. A LOT of people on FB complain about the original ones. I guess the number of working vs non-working original/clones is about the same, and normally I won't take a risk of spending 40$ on non-working original, rather than 13$ on non-working clone. Sample size of 1 original vs 1 clone is far from being representative to do such radical conclusions. Thousands of people are happy with the clones. I am not advocating to support clones, I just do not understand how come original have such a bad QC and high failure rate when doing stats properly? Besides that, many clones have different connection and setup and you need to spend a little bit of time figuring how to configure it properly.
I've bought 5 genuine BLTouch sensors They all worked flawlessly. It's not the easiest sensor to set up. Could that 20% number that you are talking about be attributed to "user error?"
The same can be said for the clone sensors. You already said above you know how to get the clones to work, but you don't in the video.. "I'm not about to help some thieves in China sell knockoffs" This video is pure propaganda and all your responses secure that fact.
I see from reading the comments previously posted that this "review" is NOT about actually reviewing the 3dtouch. it is a political post intentionally wiring the 3d touch incorrectly, intentionally making sure it wouldn't work. and the whole point of the post from the very beginning was to tell people not to buy the 3d touch. when the reviewer replys to the community with "OH you support thievery good for you" that exposes everything you need to know. This is not a review, it is an opinion piece.
I showed you the wiring. It was wired correctly. I figured out how to get it to work, but I'm not about to teach the world how to fix the inferior product, and even with the fix it still isn't as functional as the genuine thing. If you bought a stolen product. Shame on you. Don't go insulting me because you feel like a bad person now. It's this simple. If you buy a 3D touch you will get an inferior product and you are facilitating (abetting) thievery.
What's that web interface?
I bought mine on aliexpress from trianglelab, had no problem so far, so yes, i recommend buying the cheaper one
están mal configurados del cableado me paso con unos que compre en alisspres
It's a you say, "didn't work out if the box"... But when I buy 2, and both are not working? Something else is likely wrong. I would say you didn't convert the 3d touch to 3.3v
Oh yeah. For duet board you must cut track on 3d touch pcb to work on 3.3V. Older bltouch have the same thing. Most likely you broke sensor or it never see proper voltage on pwm signal because it may have higher voltage threshold with Schmitt input.
Nope. I just tested it. I scratched the little trace on the PCB to change it to 3.3v logic and it does the exact same behavior.
Nope. I just tested it. I scratched the little trace on the PCB to change it to 3.3v logic and it does the exact same behavior.
@@DesignPrototypeTest , if it is not that, I can only think of the clone requiring more current to operate the electro magnet ( cause they might use less copper or so, dunno) and that the duet is unable to deliver that current.
You didn't even test it. It functions differently from a BLTouch, and I'm in agreement, it was probably wired incorrectly.
call it 'super misinformative episode' instead
I bought a genuine BLtouch and it was a NIGHTMARE to get working on an ender 3. I literally had to break off a transistor on the mainboard for it to work! and mind you this was actually the Ender 3 kit made specifically for the ender 3, yet it requires you to break the mainboard to make it work.
I'm all for genuine and copy rights, but this video is engineered to make the knockoff look bad, since the 3Dtouch and BLtouch require different settings in addition to ignoring the correct cables provided in the box to make it seem like its bad. I hope this was unintentional.
What kit did you buy and what revision of the Melzi board do you have? I got a pin27 board and didn't had to brake off a resistor to get it to work on the 1.1.3 Board...
How high I should Install my BL Touch?
As I recall, In my designs I put the tip of the probe 1 mm above the nozzle when it's in the retracted position.
Gotta be honest, i was researching before buying one and came across this video... seeing the like to dislike ratio made me think that maybe you just got unlucky or something... so i bought one. yup... exactly the same behavior. "YoU NeEd To cOnNecT ThE WIreS In tHe rIghT OrdER" yeah, I did... in fact, I can send m280 p0 s10 and the probe would deply, s90 would stow it, I can self test it, everything seems to run just fine... but when I try to run autoleveling, the probe never deploys. I even started a new configuration file from scratch and nothing.
Not to mention the constant errors on boot (the flashing lights) and me having to power cycle the printer 6 or 7 times before it powers on correctly. These clones are actually a piece of garbage. Sure, they are cheap and some people might have gotten functional ones but I just spent the entire weekend trying to debug a broken product like an idiot. That's wasted time I'm not getting back. I'll just get an original BLTouch and call it a day.
inb4 "but mine works" sure, I believe you. it's just that their QC might be garbage and they do ship TONS of non functional units... You just got lucky.
you should do repeatability test Original one is at least 10x more accurate compare to clones but again its insanely over priced !
guys anybody know why if it hits bed, it wont retract and trigger endstop. I have watced weeks of vids and several forums. close to giving up. Ive gotten rid of all errors, limits are good. just cant get it to retract when it hits bed. sittin with my finger on emergency stop so i dont bend the pin. help somebody..
you probably fixed this already but just incase, i had the same problem and the issue was with the wires that go from the bltouch to where the z endstop was on the main board were backwards
@@luke9511 i did figure out my issue, however its different. I got the cheap bl touch, lol. The wiring was ok, with the cheap sensors, that little bolt inside the sensor needs adjusted so the magnet inside can release it, the little scew came set to stiff position, i losened it, and it started retracted and stowing, from there it was a matter of adjusting z stops and offset. I have it dialed in now. I can actually hit print without haveing to mess with any leveling. Prints a nice first layer. All my parts are here for my 3 color upgrade. Gonna be starting that soon. Making a vid on it, considering theres not alot on youtube about 3 color upgrade.
I am sure you put the wire wrong At the 3d Touch. It took me a day to realise that the Red wire ist gnd, Black is 5V, withe is Signal and so on
It's weird that both 3D touch's didn't work. I wonder if the pin out is the same? (a lot of clones change the pins around)
Great video. Keep up the good work.
it isn't which is why you should read the instructions isntead of going on a rent promoting something thats 4 times as expensive
I've had my legitimate BLTouch do the same - servo just stops working and it just flashes on power up. I tried ordering a new pin thinking maybe something happened to magnet part, and the seller sent me some pin that wouldn't even fit in the BLTouch (I did get a refund, it was an authorized reseller, not a random Aliexpress seller). Unfortunately Antclabs told me they don't sell just the pin. I ended up ordering a 2nd BLtouch complete unit - after auto Delta calibration kept failing I tried doing multiple G30 S-1 without moving the effector and got different results everytime. For me, on a Tevo Little Monster, these things just don't seem to work. I just do manual probing/jogging with paper now.
Strange my 3d touch works perfect and 3d touch and bltouch work the same way
They are identical apart from the wiring which from the name of your channel id expect you to to check......
Mine has been working for 6 months now. Clone...
Good for you. You supported thievery, and it paid off. Does that really make you feel like a winner? Perhaps you should examine your impact on the world. Buyer beware: Clones are less expensive because they are inferior and unoriginal.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Well... I bought a clone after my BLTouch stopped working. I got 2 months use from it.
Almost all internet give the same aftersale service (it sucks). So I decided to not spend +40€ (I live in Europe and here everything is more expensive).
I can break +5 clones and still would be cheaper than buying another original BLTouch.
My SKR Mini E3 just stopped working (the SD card reader). They are charging 28$. And isn't it an original product? That's a reasonable price.
Get the BLTouch down to a reasonable price and I'm sure that people won't bother buying chinese clones...
By the way, I'm pretty sure the original and the clones are made at the same place, with the same components.
If the screw is suppose to be a downgrade then I just stop watching here...
That's how mafia works! Here we go again
My 3Dtouch was DOA as well. Big waste of my time.
Antclabs has patents.
Consumers who buy a copy will not get a warranty, because the companies that copy BLTouch will be sued and forced to shut their companies down.
Yeah, good luck suing Chinese companies... :D
Do you work or ANTCLABS? ...that includes sponsoring this video.
I review products which are sent to me. I have not been paid, and my opinions are my own. This is likely your first time watching a video of mine. I have a consistent theme of recognizing/rewarding original creators. China's cloning is very bad for the hobby: th-cam.com/video/XYInrD-Vaak/w-d-xo.html
@@DesignPrototypeTest I agree with some ideology, but when the original is more than 3x the price I think twice. What bothers me is that I was looking for a comparison video. You got blinded from the hate you have for the clone and didn't give us what we were hoping to see. So if you would compare 2 cars, you'll probably crush one because you don't like something about it.
Not all clones are made the same, triangle labs 3d touch is 5v tolerant, and should work with any printer, it's 15usd, don't opt for the cheapest clone, buy one that's reasonably priced
Glad to see you back! How’s the GMC project going?
Pretty good! Thanks for asking. I got a Tesla Battery and solar panels, and I've been designing the charging system and the rest of the electrical system for the rig. It's a lot of fun!
Man that’s exactly what I was going to ask! More motorhome! I’m sooo jealous.
This piece of plastic is dramatically overpriced.
@@Festivejelly It does not, neither legit or knockoff. The design is very simple, materials used are cheap, writing the firmware didn't require a rocket scientist. Retail price must be around $10-12 for a legit one.
@@Festivejelly I'm sure no one would suffer because you're proudly paying "premium" for this junk, that's the way business works and, at the end, everyone are happy. Hobbyists, shoppers and other bigots are most vulnerable to this phenomenon.
IMHO the folks who talk about 'genuinity' of mechanical sensors should be shot on sight.
That stuff already was invented long before their grandfathers were born.
I'm curious, where did you get the 3DTouch?
Ebay.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Thanks. =)
Give me any BL/3D touch tchat works in 100C ambient! I have one black clone that works the best but not always. Not every copy is worse!
Took me 2 minutes to figure out the 3d touch.. You got a dud or you wired it wrong I'd guess too
i prefer genuine but cannot afford it...