Autoleveling on 3D printers: 9 myths and 12 sensors tested!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มี.ค. 2024
  • There are many options for a 3D printer's bed sensor and even more misconceptions about what they can and should do. So after a ton of testing with a custom-built precision test apparatus (TM), 9 myths about these sensors have been examined - and we got a ton of data about how precise each one can be!
    🛒 M8, 2mm inductive sensor (5V) s.click.aliexpress.com/e/UnYVZFe
    🛒 M12, 4mm inductive sensor s.click.aliexpress.com/e/e6QJqn6
    🛒 M16, 8mm inductive sensor s.click.aliexpress.com/e/fuVJu3F
    🛒 M16, adjustable distance capacitive sensor s.click.aliexpress.com/e/YfIQFie
    🛒 M16, 20mm capacitive sensor s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ujEuvZf
    🛒 David Crocker's IR sensor www.escher3d.com/
    🛒 SHARP analog sensor s.click.aliexpress.com/e/mEMnaQF
    🛒 Microswiches s.click.aliexpress.com/e/2z3Njm2
    🛒 BLTouch geni.us/BLTouch
    🎥 All my video and editing gear toms3d.org/my-gear
    👐
    / toms3dp
    Certain elements may not be included in the CC-BY-AS license, e.g. third-party images and music. Trademarks are property of their respective owners.
    Polygon background created by Starline - Freepik.com
    Standard deviation graph by Jeremy Kemp under CC-BY 2.5
    🎧 Check out the Meltzone Podcast (with CNC Kitchen)! / @themeltzone
    👐 Enjoying the videos? Support my work on Patreon! / toms3dp
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ความคิดเห็น • 807

  • @slimanus8m
    @slimanus8m 2 ปีที่แล้ว +152

    Its been 4 years, will be cool to see a redo with current offerings

    • @sternrulez
      @sternrulez 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I'm officially finished with 3d/bl touches...they're both garbage, so yeah I'd like to see a 2021 sensor showdown myself 🙂

    • @slimanus8m
      @slimanus8m 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@sternrulez They really are garbage. for me after a long journey I came back to the source. end stop prob - klicky, the simpler the better

    • @mynameisdex8785
      @mynameisdex8785 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@slimanus8m its been 5 years now

    • @slimanus8m
      @slimanus8m ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mynameisdex8785 Damn

    • @slimanus8m
      @slimanus8m ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@mynameisdex8785 Ya....Now its official, just use Klicky or even Unklicky. it's simple cheap and accurate and cool

  • @Backenfutter85
    @Backenfutter85 7 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    This was awesome. Finally a proper comparsion between the different sensor types. Thanks a lot for your effort!

  • @pensandcalls
    @pensandcalls 7 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    I think you did the BLTOUCH a disservice, Tom. While the other sensors perform equally well in any position, such as your horizontal position in the test fixture, the BLTOUCH is designed to work vertically. When put in the horizontal position, the sensor pin and magnet must overcome the additional friction of sliding along the bore of the guiding hole. This can lead to inconsistent measurements due to friction and grabbing. I consistently get average variation in
    readings around 0.015 mm

    • @jesondag
      @jesondag 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      This!. The BLtouch is probably the best sensor on the market when used properly. It doesn't care what your build surface is and once your offset is determined you never have to worry about bed leveling or adjusting anything to do with the Z axis again. I routinely start a print and walk away, and expect it to come out perfect, and it does. The autoleveling is done once the bed is up to temperature, then the nozzle wipes across a brass brush, and quickly moves to the bed and starts printing. The BLTouch is an awesome bit of kit.

    • @alejandroperez5368
      @alejandroperez5368 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      0.015mm is a lot of deviation

  • @andrewmalaty8
    @andrewmalaty8 7 ปีที่แล้ว +237

    How are you only at 67K subscribers? Your videos are so good and the editing lighting etc is amazing! I wish you lots of success Thomas. I really enjoy every single video that you make.

    • @erhardpostinger1326
      @erhardpostinger1326 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      He could get millions of subscribers from the FNL (GDR) which never learned english.

    • @therealdjdemond
      @therealdjdemond 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Tom's videos are great and have amazing production value but how many 3D printer enthusiasts do you think are in the world? I imagine 67k people is a sizeable proportion of them.

    • @andrewmalaty8
      @andrewmalaty8 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Touché, but also lots of people that are interested in 3d printing don't have to be enthusiasts. Like you said though his production quality is probably some of the best on TH-cam, and that is not an exageration. Many channels 10 hell even 100 times his size can learn a thing or two from him!

    • @3DPrintingNerd
      @3DPrintingNerd 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      67k is quite a small subsection of 3d printing enthusiasts. Talk to Lulzbot and Ultimaker about their sale figures. Heck, Prusa and his company are shipping 3,000 printers a month, and that's only because that is the limit at what they can produce right now, giving new orders a 7 week lead time.

    • @therealdjdemond
      @therealdjdemond 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      So this got me thinking what is the size of the global hobby 3d printing market? There's plenty of data on additive manufacturing market size but that's not people buying prusa i3 mkII's.

  • @diylab
    @diylab 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this comparison! We just doing the same for a customer and we were asked this question very often as we do a lot of printer customizing.

  • @thomas_st
    @thomas_st 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never thought about using such sensors for measuring the bed level. At work I use mostly inductive ones but just for checking if there is an object or not. When I saw your video about the Prusa i3MK3 and its autoleveling I had doubts about the precision, but your video here has told me better. Thank you.

  • @chriswalter7030
    @chriswalter7030 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Clear, concise, metrologically accurate and empirically awesome. Legend.

  • @hayfahvytsen
    @hayfahvytsen 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Especially good description of what standard deviation means in this situation. Gut gemacht!

  • @TheChumm
    @TheChumm 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    That test machine was brilliant! I built an i3 clone following your guide and this sort of thing is really great for developing upgrades. Thanks for being so thoughtful in the design and execution of the testing.

  • @dvlbkrby
    @dvlbkrby 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very informative video that highlights the differences in sensor types. Just what I was looking for to help decide what sensors to look at.

  • @inthehead1763
    @inthehead1763 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow Tom that was a very in depth video and very well put together as usual. Thanks!

  • @neuxstone
    @neuxstone 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Tom. You pretty much nailed this one....also you mentioned that capacitive sensors are thrown off by humidity...they are actually the instrument they use to sense humidity.

  • @manny9639
    @manny9639 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really cool video! The idea of applying statistics touched base, true engineering style, trial and error!

  • @spikekent
    @spikekent 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Invaluable advice and comparisons Tom. Massive appreciation mate.

  • @stomping_leaf
    @stomping_leaf 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Incredibly thorough, concise review! Keep up the great work

  • @brandonterry1517
    @brandonterry1517 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was awesome. I love these technical kinds of videos. Thanks for the info, Tom!

  • @choschiba
    @choschiba 7 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Thank you very much for this very interesting & informative video!! I love those technical contributions.

    • @cdreid99999
      @cdreid99999 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wow great video thanks. This should get a lot more attention

  • @dariussteele3843
    @dariussteele3843 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I would love to see this video updated to include Ultrasonic sensors, and name brand inductance sensors like those made by Osram up to say 16mm sensing distance. That being said, this video is so helpful. Thank you for making it.

    • @lasercutzinfo4718
      @lasercutzinfo4718 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      ultrasonic too hard to work at small distance, basically time of flight is sooooo short electronics is not fast enough to process it. if you have at least 10cm distance then there is enough time to do calculation at reasonable precision yet you need to run higher frequencies. We tried to do auto focus device at 25mm distance even there we had to give up on ultrasonic sensors.

  • @you_just
    @you_just 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I think one of the things you have to remember is that the BLTouch is an all-in-one solution for bed leveling; it won’t interfere with your nozzle at all because of its retraction. That retraction most likely adds a significant wobble.

  • @samuelkemp4557
    @samuelkemp4557 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is amazing! Finally a useful application of the scientific method to get some hard data. It is so much more convincing than people's opinions. Love your videos!

  • @Nikel87
    @Nikel87 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Good video.
    I have thought about switching to inductive sensor but now I just think I can keep the microswitch without the lever.

  • @gizmoguyar
    @gizmoguyar 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I want to address something I've been seeing floating around the internet regarding the inductive/capacitive probes. People keep saying you need a 12 V to 5V voltage divider on the output. This is partially wrong, and may, in fact, introduce more errors in your bed leveling. The sensors do absolutely need to be run from 12 volts to achieve their rated specs, but if you are careful to buy an NPN type sensor, you can simply plug the output directly into the Ramps input pin. This sensors are what is called "open collector drain" output. It means that it doesn't provide an output voltage when trigged, rather it pulls the signal provided to it to ground. The Arduino/Ramps board has internal 20 kohm pull up resistors on all of its pins (enabled in Configurations.h). This pull up provides 5 volts to the output pin of the sensor, when the sensor triggers, it pulls that 5 volt signal to ground. If you use a voltage divider, you might reduce the 5 volts enough to cause unreliable switching in the Arduino. PNP type = needs voltage divider. NPN type = do not use voltage divider.

  • @bobdavis7192
    @bobdavis7192 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a great video. This is one of the BEST Tom. Great job!!!!!

  • @Timb737
    @Timb737 7 ปีที่แล้ว +50

    Great, informative videos. Thank you. I was wondering if you tested the BLTouch horizontally or vertically? I think that its accuracy is affected by gravity and would benefit from a vertical test. I agree that it is a good alternative for glass probing.

    • @pellin-unleashthebiker3101
      @pellin-unleashthebiker3101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      A coil-operated pin this small and light should not be influenced by gravity at all. The testing method is perfectly acceptable in this case.

    • @TROPtastic
      @TROPtastic 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@pellin-unleashthebiker3101 not when you're dealing with micron-level precision. I calibrate measurement equipment to this level as part of my job, and misusing equipment like this is a total non-starter if I want something to perform accurately.

    • @pellin-unleashthebiker3101
      @pellin-unleashthebiker3101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@TROPtastic did you look at the precision of the bltouch horizontally in this video? It is only some microns, so still perfect. So the conclusion is it really does not matter in this case. For something else it may, but not for a simple 3d printer.

  • @davidstafford4873
    @davidstafford4873 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    So much work and planning to make this. Great job!

  • @Ryukachoo
    @Ryukachoo 7 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    one thing you're missing are FSRs, force sensing resistors. i use them on my delta which has a glass bed over an aluminum heat spreader.
    they seem to be very repeatable but only above 0.13mm deviation, any less than that and smoothieware's autocalibration gets upset

    • @jamessnell5131
      @jamessnell5131 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I too use FSR's with Smoothie on my delta. I like them a lot, though they have their own drawbacks too.

  • @otternas3
    @otternas3 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Guden Thomas,
    wie immer: Sehr Informativ und Professionell!
    Ich danke dir für all deine Super Videos zum Thema, diese brachten mich in die Welt des 3D-Drucks!
    Weiter so, alles Gute und schöne Grüße aus dem Hessen,
    Otter

  • @paulpardee
    @paulpardee 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is the kind of video I subscribed for. Great content!

  • @column.01
    @column.01 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for your video, now I can comfortably purchase an induction sensor with the knowledge I will likely have to give up my glass bed. I appreciate all the testing you did!

  • @nourdraw1548
    @nourdraw1548 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have not seen any video like this one, wow! super informative! keep it up man

  • @pradiptabiswas2393
    @pradiptabiswas2393 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cool comparison. I was looking for a sensor to measure distance for my research project. So this helped me to understand the basics of the sensors. Thank you for that. Also is it possible to have the part list for your test setup? It will be really useful.

  • @ryankrammes8245
    @ryankrammes8245 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very happy with David Crocker's differential IR sensor and a sheet of Printbite.

  • @pascalgarcia5161
    @pascalgarcia5161 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for your videos. I have experienced difficulties with sensors. After a few consecutive prints, the levelling of the bed was not accurate, but was accurate again the day after. I now make the levelling when the bed is hot, but the problem still exists. I believe that the sensor close to the bed and the head warms up little by little, and the temperature of the sensor may have some effect of the measurement.

  • @MacRC8D
    @MacRC8D 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your work is excellent. Thanks for the video, it's going to be very useful for my graduation project.

  • @chrisjericho7123
    @chrisjericho7123 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've just discovered your channel and love the friendly sound of your voice. I want to do a few small projects and I was weighing paying for prints vs buying my own printer. I found the new matter mod-t for 299 but wondered was there something better for beginners that maybe will help them as they transition to an intermediate level of skill without going a lot higher ( +$200 US) in price. In any case, I enjoy your videos. Thank you.

  • @lvikng57
    @lvikng57 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    When I was working on the auto-alignment at Type A Machines, I was very surprised at the unsolvable nature of the auto-alignment problem. There's essentially no way to get the desired flatness when combining the standard deviation of the sensor, with the rated flatness of aluminum, and the thermal expansion when heating to over 80C. You could conceivably do it with steel, but that has other challenges from the weight and cost of facing. Glass is really the only material we could find with below +/- 50 um flatness and dimensional stability when heated (we even managed to find some with +/- 0.3 um).
    Really the solution is to crowd source some magnetic glass, minimum order is 5 tons and works with induction.

    • @BlackHeartScyther
      @BlackHeartScyther 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm game, magnetic glass ftw

    • @ruyvieira104
      @ruyvieira104 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      just epoxy glue a steel sheet to a piece of glass

  • @geertbosch2778
    @geertbosch2778 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I feel like I've been in a time capsule. I got an early MakerBot CNC (#180) in 2009-ish, and was printing 3mm ABS on a raft on Kapton tape, using a .37mm layer height and no fans or heated beds. I woke up in 2021 receiving a Prusa Mini+ that prints directly on a magnetically attached and heated bed, using 50 micron layer height if I so desire, and supporting PLA, PETG and a plethora of other materials out of the box. In the old times, I tried using an optical mouse sensor for auto-leveling using focus. It actually worked with the sensor 1 mm from the bed, but I wanted something more like 10mm from the bed and never got the optics to work correctly. The idea was that the optical mouse sensor not only sensed the height, but also could read markings on the bed, or a printed sheet attached to it both for calibration precision and for communicating what to print. I never got to finish this project, but it seems like it still might be worth while: the inductive SuperPINDA doesn't even provide much headroom. Does anybody here have experience using optical focusing for Z height calibration?

  • @vagabound1010
    @vagabound1010 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Incredible experimental design, helped me so much in making an informed choice. Earned my subscription and then some!

  • @Perbacom
    @Perbacom 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really great channel Tom. Keep up the good work!

  • @MuditGupta89
    @MuditGupta89 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Perfect, new video right as I get home from work. Amazing content

  • @kevin_delaney
    @kevin_delaney 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I liked this video a lot, I simply wish the sensor I use (David Crockers IR Sensor) had a slightly deeper/more in depth review. I am given more confidence to continue using it, however, will no longer calibrate it with the heated bed on.
    That is a variable I had not even thought twice of! I simply set the bed for 55° for my PolyMax PLA and calibrated it when it was done heating right before the print...Thank You for that!

  • @Surfingspider69
    @Surfingspider69 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. I really enjoyed the scientific real world tests. More like this please

  • @winandd8649
    @winandd8649 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very, very nice testing here! Thanks Thomas!
    I've been using a little microswitch (with lever) on a metal strip moved by a servo. It's working flawlessly for years now.
    (all metal printer, no 3d printed parts)
    Nice to see that this turns out to be a precise way indeed :-)

  • @TheWeekendModder
    @TheWeekendModder 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great Video - seriously stellar quality and effort clearly went into this. The pinned top comment is exactly the question one is left wondering. Great job!

  • @InventorEgoSum
    @InventorEgoSum 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video Tom it was really informative.

  • @jasonlipavsky7371
    @jasonlipavsky7371 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    good video.... I like the effort you actually put into this, I really did have ever these questions

  • @wschadow
    @wschadow 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done! Great information and nice experimental set-up!

  • @cncdaddio
    @cncdaddio 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have a question about the inductive sensors... How much 'material' do they need below and around them and at what point does it make a difference? For instance: If I trigger right on the edge of my aluminium plate it triggers lower then when probed in the middle of my plate. Does thickness play a huge role? Do they trigger higher when there is a bearing holder right below the sensing point? How thick does the aluminium need to be to not have that influence...

  • @haqnmaq
    @haqnmaq 7 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    +Thomas Sanladerer Great video! Aluminum tape definitely works though! I have used it multiple times, amd we also use it reliably at our Makerspace. There are different types of aluminum tape however. It looks like you are using the "metalized" type that is similar to Mylar. That stuff will not work. You need actual aluminum tape. The metalized type isn't very conductive. Actual Aluminum tape is basically just like aluminum foil with an adhesive backing. The only thing you have to watch out for is the adhesive. Alot of aluminum tape has a low temp adhesive and will start peeling up at around 50°C, but you can find some that has a high temp adhesive which is what we use under our PEI at the Maker Space.

    • @haqnmaq
      @haqnmaq 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      You can tell by the video that it's the wrong kind of aluminum tape. Actual aluminum tape has a dull surface to it, and it is much thicker as well. Basically the tape you tested is just plastic tape with a small ammount of aluminum vapor deposited on the surface. Other than that, Great video!

    • @MattBergholm
      @MattBergholm 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Agreed. I have had great results with aluminum tape on glass beds!

    • @Sutech118
      @Sutech118 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I've used copper tape in the past on glass, that worked pretty well as well.

    • @ElectraFlarefire
      @ElectraFlarefire 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Had minor problems with some Aluminum tapes and inductive sensors due to reduced sensing distances that I didn't like quite as well, found copper tape to be far better. But either works great.
      In fact on my setup(8mm inductive @12v) copper has better sensing distance than the aluminum heatbed(My printer crashes on autolevel if I leave the glass off and it tries to sense the aluminum sheet)
      Those here who use copper/aluminium tape under 3 or 4mm glass: What is your sensing distance? I put the tape on top and just don't print in the very corners as 1mm or so above the glass is too close for me with the tape under it.

    • @jhitesma
      @jhitesma 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I've been using a piece of heavy duty aluminum foil between my heated bed and glass for almost a year - with a 8mm inductive sensor it works great. It worked with a 4mm sensor as well - but was a bit too close for my tastes and Marlin's probe test seemed to show the 8mm was about the same for accuracy so I've stuck with it and been very happy.

  • @jedijeremy
    @jedijeremy 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nicely done! Thorough as always. I learned stuff.

  • @anthonymarconi3174
    @anthonymarconi3174 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Informative as always. I use a LJ12A-4-Z/BY with an LM7805 VR on the output this gives a steady 5 volt trigger signal.
    If you increase the input voltage does it does it strengthen the sensing distance.

  • @JimmyJames420
    @JimmyJames420 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    great video! cool rig, shows the power of rapid prototyping. been thinking about Auto leveling, I have a delta that uses pressure pads, would be great to see how well it stacks up, down side is Auto leveling is tapping printer head into the bed every time.

  • @cncmachinery3470
    @cncmachinery3470 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You measured mostly repeatability, and mostly ignored system accuracy due to heating/cooling.
    Excellent video, great charts.
    Should have had an external digital DTI measure the setups actual position, logging, and dwelled (paused) after contact on the probe.
    Then the DTI log would show where the moving piece actually was at probe contact, vs the start position when all was cold.
    Likewise, the triggering circuit for probe hit is critical.
    I did a lot of work on this, 8 years ago, on testing for lathe spindle index sensors, and we proved conclusively that sensors will give very fuzzy signals, that vary with temp/speed/luck.
    A sharp triggering circuit, and a sensor tuned to give a crisp response, will be about 100x more accurate on a range of speeds vs a typical probe "hit".
    I also saw that optical sensors will repeat to about 2 microns, with very simple basic cheap sensors.

  • @mariomassens
    @mariomassens 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    AWESOME. I don't know how you find the time, but I would to live next door to you. Thank you for your hard work!

  • @improprietary1
    @improprietary1 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ormerod represent! Seeing DC42s revised IR sensor made my day!

  • @christopherellis5256
    @christopherellis5256 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude, you are my 3D Printing Super Hero... Love your passion for the 3D printing. I'm in the Vegas Area and they are always talking about probing, especially with Area51 so close. Lol

  • @keytree69
    @keytree69 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another one to try is the piezo force sensor. Mount it in your bed support or (as I did) in your hot-end mount on the carriage and it registers contact of the nozzle to the bed. Zero probe offsets in X, Y and Z, change nozzle and all you have to do is run the auto-level. Super convenient. Precision Piezo do a good rig.

  • @a4gr
    @a4gr 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for all that testing but now I want to know which probe is best for the Scoovo X9H.
    It has Kapton tape directly stuck on a glass bed with the silicon heating pad just under it.
    Board: RAMBo
    Firmware: Marlin

  • @kermitsc1036
    @kermitsc1036 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tom, you really should continue wit the Myth-busting line. I have been experimenting with sensors I have to say that your conclusions corroborate my experience 100%. Given mechanical switches with lever , although less precise than inductive, can be used with borosilicate glass, I will stick to those. Awesome video, congrats.

  • @DudeBoerGaming
    @DudeBoerGaming 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a unique idea for a sensor that might work better than any of these. I know it works much better than a Microswitch for sure at least....when I built it initially I didn't know what use it may be, but now it is all quite clear! Thank you Thomas! You inspire me!

  • @raise-project
    @raise-project 7 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    Very informative, thats exactly the content I prefere. Some more mythbusteresque explosions would be neat.

    • @raise-project
      @raise-project 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Excellent :)

    • @HenryLoenwind
      @HenryLoenwind 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, let's slam that probe through that glass with some speed! *g*

  • @3DPrintingNerd
    @3DPrintingNerd 7 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Is this going to be the sensor version of Fillaween? ... Sensorween?

  • @freelectron2029
    @freelectron2029 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    brillant breakdown, very rich in useful info.

  • @JessVideoDude
    @JessVideoDude 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome video, thank you for sharing, great engineering skills too!

  • @SimonMenu
    @SimonMenu 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    High quality content episode, as always ! it s a plaisure to follow you thomas

  • @xThaWolfx
    @xThaWolfx 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you!

  • @Adikimenakis
    @Adikimenakis 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent review and presentation Tom!! Very well done!
    I have a 6-7 mm glass on top of an aluminum bed. Which sensor should i use?

  • @matlachaine
    @matlachaine 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    newbie questions:
    1) why isn't any using ultrasonic sensors ?
    2) do high end printers use laser/lidar ?
    thanks for the video, very informative!

    • @_JustBeingCasual
      @_JustBeingCasual 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      1) 2) there must be distance for both of them. None of them will allow you to notice when the nozzle < 1cm. I guess there might be a workaround with offsets though when 5/10 centimeter or something like that.

    • @tinhead1112
      @tinhead1112 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Ultrasonic sensors are not precise enough to do the job.

    • @theunitedgamersoftheworld2423
      @theunitedgamersoftheworld2423 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Lidar is a process where an infared laser light creates a kind of radar around it. 3d Printers are only trying to measure distance in one direction. It is much simpliler and more practical to not use lidar. Ultrasonics are another radar type with help of a servo, Most radar like sensors are kind of inacurate but still acurate enoguh for their use cases like on a car or a plane. Where 3d printers are looking for accuracies of up to micrometers.
      Always learning,
      Aidan Villacampa

    • @lukemason2232
      @lukemason2232 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Prusa uses a laser to detect stoppage in their filament sensor. You can get them on Aliexpress

    • @evlsc400
      @evlsc400 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Are there any sensors that can map out the Z axis lead screws intolerances?

  • @MarkRehorst
    @MarkRehorst 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Would you please make a video explaining limitations of autoleveling? A lot of people seem to think it will compensate for misaligned axes (like when a dual motor Z axis loses motor sync and the X axis tilts).

  • @zacharyallen4270
    @zacharyallen4270 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I don't know where you're getting your sensors but I use 1 strip of aluminum tape under glass. Works like a charm. I used it as a retrofit onto the printrbot simple metal and it worked better than with the aluminum bed.

  • @spinorkit
    @spinorkit 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great info, thanks Tom. I recently installed David Crocker’s IR sensor on my Prusa i3 box frame, which uses a 3mm glass bed and a red Mk2 PCB heated bed, inked black with a permanent marker in the sensor probing areas.
    After watching your video, I tweaked Marlin so that G30 would output the trigger height to 3 decimal places (1 micron resolution). I turned on my printer and made 46 measurements with G30 and got an s.d. of 1.4 microns. I noticed a trend in the data, presumably due to temperature drift somewhere in the system (probably the steppers warming up my crappy M5 threaded rods so the trigger point appeared to get lower with time). So I did another 34 measurements and the s.d. was 0.8 microns, but still with an obvious trend.
    I think these numbers are an order of magnitude better than you got with glass. Maybe it matters what is behind the glass?
    I should also mention there was a thin layer of glue stick on the bed under the probing area from the last print. Also I have slightly modded my sensor board to increase the trigger height from about 2.7 mm to 3.2 mm by tweaking the angle of the outer LED using a hot-air rework station. This is so that it would clear the bulldog clips I use to hold the glass down so I could still retain my full 200x200 build area.

    • @vladmirputin7139
      @vladmirputin7139 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's because, most likely, your bed surface is suitable for Crocker's IR sensor. The testing surfaces and setup in the video is stated as not suitable in the documentation. If you are running a glass plate on top of bare aluminum it is recommended to paint the aluminum matte black. I wish this test was done with the proper setup.

  • @DSchmidt54
    @DSchmidt54 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks Thomas, you have helped me figure out why I am getting inconsistent results with my 8mm capacitive sensor. Time to go and get BL Touch instead. :/

  • @angst_
    @angst_ 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I thought you needed an PNP sensor? (at least for a ender 3) Can you use either and set the high/low trigger in marlin firmware?
    Also, what voltage divider did you use?

  • @joetke
    @joetke 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    pretty rigorous tests. Thanks Thomas!

  • @Magnatron13
    @Magnatron13 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like to print on glass and don't have auto leveling at the moment. The micro switch performed well but could you test it with a servo attached and see how it performs.

  • @CapnBry
    @CapnBry 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow love the detail and different perspectives covered in this video. I'm a sucker for this sort of data. If inductive sensors have their detection range halved, and there is a sheet of window glass (2.38mm thick) on top of the bed, doesn't that mean that both 2mm and 4mm inductive sensors are right out?
    I'd love to print ABS right on the aluminum but nothing sticks to it without a carefully maintained pile of glop (glue/slurry), where glass works for weeks with a single light hairspray application.

  • @NonSleeper_Occasional_Thinker
    @NonSleeper_Occasional_Thinker 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    always enjoy your videos, also enjoying the new seinci videos, make more with those too please!!
    Bryan, Canada

  • @Mr.Laidukas
    @Mr.Laidukas 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very good video! Useful, interesting and professional. Glad I subscribed to your channel.

  • @argonaise_jay
    @argonaise_jay 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, how informative video it is... I should applause.

  • @billschwanitz669
    @billschwanitz669 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you ever re-run this test I'd love to see the piezo sensors be included. I'm about to give one a try myself but curious to see your experience vs mine/others

  • @SuperRcbuilder
    @SuperRcbuilder 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    So comprehensive comparison! Thanks

  • @xaytana
    @xaytana 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    You should try the aluminum tape trick with the optical sensors, I have a feeling the Sharp will benefit from it.
    Also, try doing tests with multiple sensors, like one for each corner of a bed vs a single sensor.

  • @ryangarrison7088
    @ryangarrison7088 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is awesome! Also fun fact: I use an aluminum mk3 heatbed with a 3/32 inch (2.38 mm) sheet of glass AND blue tape. The 8 mm inductive sensor triggers just fine for me thankfully.

  • @matthiashansen1591
    @matthiashansen1591 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for your work! But one question:
    Is it possible, that a electical heatbed can get a bad influence on these probes?
    For e.g. eletric magnetic behaviours? On your test is a "perfect" metal block without heatbed wires etc.

  • @mastermoarman
    @mastermoarman 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    love the video. can you publish the accuracy finding?

  • @PaulMillhouse7
    @PaulMillhouse7 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. With all this in consideration, which sensor would you add to your 3D printer? Seems like the LJ12A3 and the PINDA are among the most sensitive and reliable, but I'm sure there are additional considerations such as voltage and compatibility.

  • @Ken-nr6xb
    @Ken-nr6xb 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thomas, great video! I have an Ender 3 and bought the BLTouch kit for it. Everything was working well until I had to remove the hot end fan to clean up some melted filament around the the top of the nozzle. After going through the calibration for the BLTouch again, I now can only print small items. Even after fiddling with the Z-offset, any large print's first layer will be too close on one side and too far on the other. I really enjoy having the BLTouch, but I haven't been able to print anything larger than a benchy lately and I'm thinking of pushing Marlin 1.1.9 onto the Ender 3 just to be able to print (without ABL) again. I have the silent mainboard installed, so I can just update through USB. Is there any fix for the ABL, before I remove it?

  • @flymario8046
    @flymario8046 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. Love the rig you created. Is there a normal term for the slide you used that has to rails built in? I am thinking of using one on a 3D Printer I want to build from scratch

  • @mruizcamauer
    @mruizcamauer 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your videos are all excellent, but this one is superb! We spent so much effort learning this on our own... at Kikai Labs we use a capacitive sensor, take 16 measurements prior to starting each print job and level the bed automatically. It works great. We do calibrate the sensor first using three different bed temperatures, as it does matter as you pointed out. Interesting observation about the humidity, though... I used capacitive so that it would measure the glass surface, and we use a mirror instead of plain glass, and get better results. Also we found that the smallest the measuring distance, the more accurate it is, so we measure from 2mm away using a 12mm sensor.

  • @FixItPleaseJ
    @FixItPleaseJ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome test! Very methodical tests. I have the cap sense and have noticed the heat issues. I think I'll switch to inductive.
    I would like to try a glass bed over the aluminum lower plate. I wonder if the the longer range inductive sensor would be practical at detecting the aluminum glass combo.

  • @hassaization
    @hassaization 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    for my scratch built reprap delta we used a simple conductive type, running 1 wire to the nozzle, and another to the aluminium bed, reeally simple and easy, and no need to worry about effector tilt

  • @meesbeumer6499
    @meesbeumer6499 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Tom,
    i have a reprap 3d printer for some time now. The mendel 3 uses an ir sensor for both x and z homing. especialy the z homing i find is very inconsisntend. in fact the only thing i do against poor z leveling is manualy calibrating the axis once the print has started. The ir sensor is set to tringer at a set value which in term corresponds to a set height from the heated bed. So for instance a value of 18 corresponds to a height of 10mm above the bed. Do you recomend to opt for a new sensor? Or is there a fix i might not have thought of?
    thank you so much for your videos, since i learned about this channel my prints improved massively!
    thanks a bunch

  • @mexussound
    @mexussound 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have Omkon SN04-N inductive sensor. I use glass bed and have one layer of aluminum tape ON TOP of the glass where the sensor probes.
    It works pretty well :)

  • @massimookissed1023
    @massimookissed1023 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm surprised/impressed to see how accurate the no-lever microswitch was.
    (And pleased to see the 6~36v 4mm sensor is good, 'cos I have one ordered :)

  • @kevincrossland1898
    @kevincrossland1898 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Perfect timing Thomas!!! I've been looking into upgrading my whole X carraige on my cheap I3 clone, with a new E3D V6 and titan. I was planning to use an inductive sensor with foil tape, I didnt even know about those optical sensors! my cheap chinese hotend and extruder are crapping out on me after a few years, I think i probably deformed the teflon liner trying to print either PET or nylon and there's a huge amount of internal resistance. I was printing some makergeeks PLA rated for 210-220 at 240C and only 12 mm/s, any faster or colder and the extruder skips like mad. I also dont think that it was actually 240C and my thermistor is probably going bad too

  • @dthillafap
    @dthillafap 4 ปีที่แล้ว +67

    If the tests were conducted as in the video , what do you make of Antcap's instructions regarding how the BLTouch must be mounted ?
    The manufacturer's website for the BLTouch clearly states this: if the sensor is mounted horizontally it WILL give wrong results.
    They don't equivocate. It is a crystal clear stipulation. It is underlined even . Would you care to comment ?

    • @dthillafap
      @dthillafap 4 ปีที่แล้ว +53

      @@Traitorman.14.3 except it is not just an electronic device . It is an electromechanical device and it is purpose designed to work mounted vertically . My kettle is a simple electronic device , it won't work as intended if I run it on its side or upside down.

    • @dthillafap
      @dthillafap 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@Traitorman.14.3 i take your point . But my inquiry is more to do with the method used to derive a conclusion , rather than the merits of this or any other device evaluated in the test. Manufacturer says this device X is designed and only works when used using method Y . Testing is done using method K , results turn out to be suboptimal . Why are the results suboptimal ? In truth we don't know ,. It may well be the product is unreliable but testing by using method K is not the way to find out. Over and out.

    • @chloemcholoe3280
      @chloemcholoe3280 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yeah he should have tilted it...

    • @milutzuk
      @milutzuk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      If I'd design a device like this small I'd surely factor the gravity whether I'd use a spring to push the pin out or not (as it happens I'm not a flat-earther, I "believe" in gravity). Probably the pin is pulled in by a coil (with the ferromagnetic pin acting as a core). Because it needs precision, the spring, if there is one, should be weak, but the trigger point will be more influenced by the sensor orientation. I guess you could make it switch just by shaking it in the hand. To be able to ignore the gravity direction (and to have repeatability no matter the sensor orientation), the spring should be stronger, but, in this case, the precision will go away, especially with microsteppping. Factor in the uneven friction, which can be significant for a such small device and the need to keep the price small and you'll have an answer.
      I don't own this small guy (BLTouch) and I didn't check the datasheet, but your observation is perfectly valid. And the BLTouch test is not valid.

    • @TheAkashicTraveller
      @TheAkashicTraveller 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Also the other mechanical sensor results aren't valid either because he's just testing the switch itself when to actually use it you'd need a mechanism to remove it to actually print.

  • @Ultrasonictwo
    @Ultrasonictwo 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very good testing ... Great Job

  • @harrifiedify
    @harrifiedify 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This was a great summary! For once, a youtube video that has more information than I actually need :-)
    (btw, the links for the inductive/capacitive sensors are all pointing to the same model)

  • @florinnichifiriuc
    @florinnichifiriuc 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    i use inductive 4mm and the bed is made from 2 sheets of glass (3mm) and graph foil (0.2mm) in between and works great.