In the Latin edition of the bible it says:30 Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost. His earthly life and mission was completed. For a time He was out of time but, He rose again and continued the next part of His mission. In time He gave His message to the Apostles, His chosen, to bring into time the way to eternal life theough the Sacraments of the Church - His Church and His Body.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Even in the first council of the church in Acts 15 it is James who makes the final decision and not Peter. James was in communion with Peter. All of the apostles had the authority to teach from scripture as do all Bishops and Priests in union with the Pope. Paul persecuted the Christians (disunity) until he was asked why he was persecuting Christ. He then became a leader of the church and no longer persecuted Christ.
@ContendingEarnestly You're right, there is nothing that WE can do, at least a lone anyway. As John said, it was an act of cooperation with what Christ did. Therefore we need to cooperate and take part in what Jesus did for us. The best way to do that is through the Mass, which Jesus commanded us to do, and also through helping others, another command given by Jesus
@chineseheart Amen! We must believe in Jesus to be saved. We must also live out our faith in our daily lives. Just as James says, these good works complete our faith. God rewards our good works done as a physical manifestation of our faith with grace, which justifies us. May God bless you.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true3 "Was Mary prayed to? " Prayer to the saints has always been practiced by Early Christians. Not in the sense of worship but in the sense of asking them to pray for us. Scripture tells us God does not listen to sinners but he will listen to the righteous. Saints in heaven have been made righteous by Christ, so the Father will listen to them before he will listen to us. I personally want them praying for me and I would think everyone would.
There is a difference between being offered the opportunity of salvation and accepting the opportunity of salvation; the latter requires you doing something; the acceptance itself, and abidence as a life course. Christians are inspired to do works as a consequence of their faith, but works could never be required for salvation. An enfant who dies, without having done any works, is not saved because they have done no works, while someone with great longevity, and who has done works, is? (Cont.)
It is really amazing his level of mis-understanding of soteriology. As is the case of most cathoics, always focusing on the wrong thing. There isn't anything you can do to begin with. We are dead in our sins and tresspasses. Dead people aren't able to do much for themselves last i checked. and it is Christ's redemptive work which was completed on the cross. It is God's; faith, grace, salvation, redemption, regeneration, belief...its all God. And its a free gift, so stop trying to work for it!
@toeveryoneananswer Re: No place in Scripture does it come close to make Mary a queen.2 The title was challenged to the point that the RCC declared it at the council of Ephesus 431. The RCC has always convened a council of Bishops, including Protestants as I understand, when challenged on doctrines of faith. I find it interesting that it was not challenged more so much earlier on since it took until 431AD for this challenge to be put to rest. The mother of a King holds this title.
What characteristics do we see for the church in the NT? Did they believe in the Marian doctrines, the pope or indulgences They believed in these as much as the Trinity, Alter Call, Sinner prayer, and which books were inspired and part of the bible. One thing can be proven by history is that the church Christ started was call the Catholic Church with the Church in Rome residing over the Faith in Love
@chineseheart I would say, "Lord, there is nothing I could do to be worthy of spending eternity with you. I believe in your promises and that you died for my sake so that I could once again have a relationship with you. I tried my best to live my life as you desire. I'm still unworthy of you, Lord, but I pray that you have mercy on my soul and allow me to spend eternity with you." What would you reply?
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Scripture never makes an exception that she was without sin. You are right, she was conceived by a mortal man and woman but she was made pregnant by the HS and not a man. She did give birth to God in the form of man. That is what is meant by "imaculate conception" not her birth. Mary is set apart from others concerning sin and the church teaches this according to both scripture and tradition. I believe that Christ created his church to teach with his authority.
@toeveryoneananswer, I believe so. Saying that general revelation continues is essentially saying that you believe things which the Church does not currently teaches, if those dogmas are i contradiction with an already revealed truth then you are in error. In regard to the canon of scripture. Since Catholics hold that the Bible is the inspired word of God; denying or adding a book to the current canon would be a monstrous sin because you would be denying God's word and elevating man's word.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Purgatory and prayers When one dies in friendship with Christ, they are saved and purged of their sins. Those under purgation are saved because they have not rejected Christ throughout their lives. They are alive in Christ and heirs to his kindom. They can hear us just like any saint. They can likewise pray for us just like any saint. Do you want verses that support prayers to saints or references to purgatory? There are many.
So I have look at the ECFs and found comments that the early church believed in the leadership of the bishop of Rome, Mary as ever virgin, and the immaculate Mary (sinless in otherwords) Thinks I found no comments about yet are Alter Calls or the sinners prayer needed to be born again.
@cathomania well said! i really dont understand the salvation by faith alone doctrine because it seems to imply that it doesnt matter what one does as long as one believes- one could be a drug dealer or a murderer and never seek absolution, never face ones own guilt and feel the pain of it,never suffer remorse and sorrow or compassion for the victims of our sins, or the offense to God and yet still go to heaven just because we believed-that never made any sense to me!
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true2 "Was Mary prayed to or thought of as the queen of heaven by the New Testament church? " I do not know the New Testament church, so I cannot answer that question. Queen of Heaven is a title given to Mary by Christians including the RCC, the Anglican, Lutheran, and Eastern Orthodox churches. The RCC states it is because her Son, who is the King of Israel and the Universe. In the Hebrew tradition, the mother of the king is the queen
Yes, that very question was ask several times in the Bible. After a pointed sermon by Peter, the question was ask, “what shall we do?” he answered, Repent, and be baptized…in the name Jesus.” Act 2:37-38 Jesus said: “verile, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 6:47 Once again the question was asked: “what must I do to be saved?” Paul answered, “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:30, 31 To repent; to believe in Jesus Christ, to be baptized, and to keep the Commandments (Matt 19:16, 17) is the part you’ll have to do and Jesus will do the rest.
@cburton103 I am close to Bible. I long to see one day that all Monotheism / denomination will come together within our Lord. if you come to the gate of heaven and Jesus is at the gate asking "what makes me opening the gate to receive you?" What will you reply?
Having Faith is not 'adding' to Christ's saving work. It is the means of 'applying' that saving work. If Salvation is the water then faith is the hose pipe. It is the 'means' through which the total and complete work of Christ comes into a persons life. Regardless, the Bible teaches that we are by nature Spiritually Dead. (Gen 2:17) (Eph 2:1) (Col 2:13) Paul is saying that we play no part in 'initiating' our reception of salvation. Faith is a gift from God to receive the gift of God!
i think that you do something [works] because you are saved, you have what we call saving faith. you dont do something to be saved, those things that you do are the fruits of justification. thats the enswer to the question. salvation is the work of God,
@toeveryoneananswer, well the Church wouldn't add it to the canon. It most likely would be considered instructive and beneficial for reading, it however would not be considered scripture.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Did they believe in the Marian doctrines, the pope or indulgences? When I read someone making statements like this, my first thought is that this person believes what ANTI-Catholic sources tell them. If you are referring to what is explained in the Catechism, then yes, the Early Church Fathers and Christians did believe these things. You will only know about them via holding fast to the traditions passed on orally. Who do you turn to for these traditions?
@cordsworks That almost sounds sort of Calvinistic though. And I would argue there's more Sola Fide folks who believe that you really don't have to do anything at all, than who recognize that you do actually have to do something. Most ironically, the sola fide folks who say you don't have to do anything then turn around and say "all you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior." Which is in fact doing something...
@CanCayate2 I had no idea I was working with such an intellectual here. Seriously though, your comment is irrelevant. Our omniscient God, being omniscient and all, knows how to communicate with us. So, through the prophets and the Church, he has shared with the world the knowledge I have shared with you. If you have any honest questions, I'd be more than happy to entertain them. God bless.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: No place in Scripture does it come close to make Mary a queen. That is the debate that has been going on for a very long time. I happen to disagree. I do not see this title as referring to Isreal, as many Protestants claim, but rather Mary in scripture. I do agree that giving her honor that makes her a God is worship. Catholics do not do this. Scripture talks about holding fast to traditions. This title was held by more than the RCC alone.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: A certain kind of knowledge is required by an individual before they are baptized such as repentance and believing certain things about Christ first. I cannot say that I agree. You are right Acts 16:14,33 does not say infants were part of the families being Baptised but we cannot assume they were not. Your statement implies that God will not save those who are not old enough to make a profession of faith. Do you believe Christ would condemn infants? (2 Peter 3:9)
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Pope, Mary, Saints I understand your desire to separate yourself from anything that could be considered not Christ. All faithful Catholics share that desire. You reject the idea that Christ would give any authority to his church that is run by sinful men. I reject the idea that Christ did not create a visible church that has the authority to teach truth so that no misunderstandings about Christ, Scripture, Traditions and Salvation can exist.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Marian doctrines, indulgences, pope leader. I must ask again what reference to these things cannot be true as provided in the Catechism of the Catholic church? What has changed about these things that you do not believe are from God? Was Mary not honored by the angel Gabriel and her cousin Elizabeth? Does scripture not tell us that some could be made well and even saved by the faith of others? Was Peter not the leader of the apostles?
@cburton103 Indeed, it is faith that leads us to salvation while good works complete our faith on our time on earth. However there are circumstances that one does not have the luxury to reflect his faith on good works like a patient at his terminal time and turns himself to Jesus by faith. Will he be saved? In God we Trust. May our Lord bless you and your family for the good deed you have on others.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Scripture nowhere teaches we are to pray to Mary or the saints but to Jesus alone Pray in the sense that worship is involved, I agree, scripture tells us that is a mortal sin = death. Scripture does tell us to pray for each other. Asking Mary or any other saint to pray for us to God is scriptural because we beleive they are alive with Christ in heaven and heirs to his kingdom. In addition to being alive, they are free from sin, we are not. God will listen to them.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: no one knows what they were since they were never written down. Well, that is the topic of discussion. How can you be positive that no one knows given that the RCC is 2000 years old and claims to have been witness to those tradtions. The veneration of Mary is one example. The church's understanding of Mary's association with Christ has grown in the church over 2000 years but Mary has always been highly regarded starting with the angel Gabriel.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: To say she never sinned is a denial of the clear teaching of Scripture as her supposed queenship. Adam and Eve were created free from sin. Why is it so impossible to believe Mary was born free from sin? I find it easy to believe that the Father would have his son born of a woman who was free from sin (original and actual) rather than one that subject to sin. The church was given the authority to teach the word of God and Christ said it is guided by the HS.
@John Martignoni. You said it yourself: “It is not me who saved myself.” This is what Protestants are saying. Not that good works are not essential to the Christian life. Not that we don’t need to cooperate with the Spirit. But that all of that comes from the Spirit, including our cooperation and the good works cooperatively wrought. God is the author of our works. God is the author of our cooperation. God is the author of our salvation. He is the only cause that is on the primary level of causation. Our efforts are merely on the secondary level of causation. And there are plenty of CATHOLICS whom I have spoken with who agree with this assessment. (As regards salvation, everything is all of grace. It is not me who has saved myself. Exactly. Thanks for agreeing with Protestants!)
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Is it not true that the pope stands above all of the other bishops? That statement will require a specific understanding of what you mean to be answered. It was Peter who was to give strength to his brothers and keep them united in their faith. He alone held the keys to heaven only because Christ gave them to him. I could go on but I am not sure it is neccessary. Do you see the Pope as claiming he is above Peter?
@cindygiaquinto James 5:16 says confess your sins to each other. I'm not sure how this relates. Sometimes the best way to answer is with a question. How about having them explain Matthew 16:19 (Apostles are given the authority to bind and loose on earth and in heaven) or John 20:23 (Apostles given the authority to forgive sin.) Logically, if you can visit the confessional and see a priest who can trace the lineage of his ordination back to the Apostles...then he can forgive too!
@chineseheart Yes, the man who turns to the Lord on his deathbed may be saved. Catholics pray that even the men with the most hardened hearts accept the Lord in their last moments of life. We believe that the Lord desires that all men will be saved, so we in turn hope that they accept the Lord's gift of salvation at whatever point in their life, and continue to walk with the Lord for the remainder of their life, even if it is short. May I ask what denomination you are? You seem close to Catholic
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true "Was Peter the supreme head? " Good question. Jesus did give the keys to him and no one else. He is the only one of the apostles that said Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus asked Peter 3 times “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?" “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.” In my opinion, that makes him supreme but it is implied not declared. So yes and no.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true4 "I also realize that within the visible church there will be unbelievers and believers with false teachers and true teachers. The Scriptures warn of this and we must always be on guard against false teachings. Would you agree?" Amen to that. No disagreement there. Have you watched any of Michael Voris' videos? He has no qualms about exposing those wolves in the RCC. Wolves are the cause of such bruttle attacks over the past 60 years.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: The early Christians did not believe in the Marian doctrines. I watched a documentary on traditions passed on orally. In this documentary, they have proven that what was originally held as tradition by various groups were accurately passed on by groups of people rather than individuals. The claim that you make is that the RCC lied to maintain control. I do not believe that but rather that Christ did not lie when he said the HS will guide his church.
John 6:29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” The power unto salvation is found in the gospel, not the hearer. The gospel is what stop a sinner in their tracks to ponder the gospel The gospel in its own power is what cuts through the sin allowing the message of the gospel to be heard This is why all who are in heaven will be casting their crowns at the feet of Jesus
food for thought. my "off the cuff" answer is that you answered your question in your example, when you said you "answered the alter call". I think the answer is the thing that gets done by us, not the prayer (it's not a magic spell), but the answering of God calling you. By grace you are saved through faith, I knock if any man answers I will come in and dine with him and he with me. It's the answering of the grace extended to you that then puts you under his salvation.
Read John 6:29 again. *The word "only" is not there.* John 6 is a very poor choice of a chapter for a Protestant to try to prove that belief is all you have to do: 53 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: *Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood*, you shall not have life in you. 54 *He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life:* and I will raise him up in the last day. 55 *For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.* 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
@@dlwatib my friend i am from greece and i read greek Holy bible...! you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood,-->>> That is symbols... Not real...!! Matthew 26 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom the blood not is real but is symbols....! Becouse Jesus not can drink the real blood-->> 10 “ ‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood. Jesus Say-->>> Matthew 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Remember Jesus did he was circumcised as the law said...!! Jesus dont can drink the Blood but the -->>Matthew 26 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom The blood is symbol And you must dring and eat the symbols flesh and blood jesus.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Peter was one of the leaders of the church but never is he spoken of as the supreme leader in any verse. What does 'supreme pontiff' mean according to the RCC? CCC875 ...The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority, but by virtue of Christ's authority; not as a member of the community, but speaking to it in the name of Christ... According to the RCC, your idea of 'supreme' is misunderstood. Peter was the leader.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Oral Traditions It has been proven that traditions can be accurately passed on from generation to generation orally by groups of poeple and not individuals. Are you really saying that the traditions of the Early Church have been lost? I ask again, which church has those tradtions practiced by the Early Church Fathers and Early Christians? Only one church has maintianed the tradition of passing authority on to the next generation via the laying on of hands.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Peter Do any of the apostles ever claim that Peter is the supreme leader of the church in their writings? Not that I am aware but Christ does. Does Peter ever speak of himself in that manner? No he personally does not as far as I am aware but many passages tell us that Peter leads the other apostles. Christ makes this proclamation and the church teaches it. If that is your basis for your argument, you are free to believe what you wish as am I.
Well yea, lets see... Ya havta: Repent, believe in the gospel, confess sins (to God, and/or the person who was offended ), stop "practicing sin" (transgressing The Law of God), and start "practicing righteousness"/ obedience to The Torah....
Scripture says salvation is so simple a child can understand it, that's why the gospel of John uses the word "BELIEVE" over 80 times, an average of more than 4 times a chapter. Can you point to the word "works" in the gospel of John, and what context it's being used? We believing do good works to please God, to help others, and to "recieve a better resurrection". There is no way anyone can justify works based salvation after reading scripture, that's why God denied Cains works of his hands. The lamb Abel offered signified the Lamb of God Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. The antichrist has lead billions to hell, and will lead many more.
@decapodproductions Gal 4:5, Christ redeemed those born under the law after He was born of woman - how does that fit with your belief that redemption was accomplished "before the world began?" Heb 9:14-15, it is His death on the cross by which the "blood of Christ...since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant." Was His blood shed "before the world began?" Lk 21:28, Jesus tells them their "redemption" is in the future.
@decapodproductions God killed God?! Please give me book, chapter, and verse on that one? How did God kill God? Souls do not die, so how did God kill His own soul? And, no, you are not answering my questions: 1) How did God die? 2) If God stopped working from the "foundation of the world," then why did you quote from Phil 1:13 about how God works in us? Either His work is done, or it's not? So, is His work done, or not? Yes, or no? Answer the questions...2nd warning.
@toeveryoneananswer, the canon of scripture is a tradition not contained in the Bible. As well as the teaching that general revelation ended at the death of the last apostle. These are just 2 off the top of my head.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Scripture nowhere teaches we are to pray to Mary or the saints2 I understand that you are defining "pray to" as meaning worship. That is not how the RCC defines this word. If you beleive that asking a saint to pray for you is worship, then do not do it as it is not required for salvation. google for a better description than I can provide here. "Do Catholics Worship Mary? suite101" and "Do Catholics Worship Idols? suite101?" This Argument is laid to rest.
@CanCayate2 Only there's one massive, gaping flaw in your strategy: you know neither the day nor the hour of your death. That's straight from Matthew 25:13, today's very applicable Gospel reading. Not to mention, God is omniscient, so he would know whether or not you were being sincere. What's the point of your comment anyways?
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Lets focus on prayer to someone who has died. Where in Scripture does it teach that when a person dies, that person who has died can hear your prayers and do something about it? You mean Purgatory. Sure, we can discuss this. Are you sure you want to go there since you are not convinced that the RCC is the visible church Jesus established? You did say you have no problem with a visible church established by Christ. You never said which one. Purgatory it is....
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Any church that teaches things not found in Scripture is not teaching the truth. That is not necessarily true. The RCC is exluded from your statement. There are many things that Jesus did that are not in scriptures. Who teaches those things if they are not passed down by word of mouth (John 20:30)? Who teaches us what the Early Church Fathers believed (Hebrews 13:7,2 Thessalonians 2:15)? Even Luther acknowledged the RCC for keeping these traditions.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: To say she never sinned is a denial of the clear teaching of Scripture as her supposed queenship. Are you so positive the Early Church Fathers believed that Mary was a sinner? I can find a seemingly contradiction in scripture to any scripture you post. Does that mean that Mary never sinned is a denial fo scripture teachings? I don't see how the title "Queen of Heaven" exhaults her higher than what scripture tells us. This title is found in other religions as well.
@decapodproductions You've got some bizarre theology there, my friend. So, Jesus was killed before creation? Who killed Him? How was He killed? I mean, He didn't have a body until He was incarnated in the womb of Mary. And, if God stopped working from the "foundation of the world," then how is it you quote (under video #5 in this series) from Phil 1:13 which says, "for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure?" Either he's done working, or he's not...which is it?
There is no Greek word that specifies "brother". Instead, the Greek word used in the passage(s) you're alluding to can also mean cousin, which is how many early interpreters of Scripture and Church historians viewed these passages. Show me the earliest example you can find of someone interpreting these verses the way you do, please.
i believe you have to follow the 10 commandments. I believe Jesus died for us to be able to repent. The Bilbe says what it say & means what it means. People just have to understand that some questions will not be answered until after death. I have heard & believe that the way to be saved is to follow his commandments. Not 50% not 99% but 100%. I understand that we are all siners & i am not saying it is easy but that is what i get out this.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Jesus gives authority to others as well Matthew 18:18-20 I don'tdeny this and the RCC teaches it. Again I think it is your understanding of the word "supreme" that is cause of friction. I see the Pope having the same authority as did Peter and all Bishops in union with him as having the same authority as the apostles. I see the Pope as a minister of God, many Protestants see him as a dictator. If Peter were to commit a sin, was his teaching authority removed?
@decapodproductions If she is not under the law, then why did she have to go to the Temple to offer her first born and make the necessary sacrifice? You're making this up on the fly, aren't you?! Indeed you are. Tell me, are you an authentic interpreter of Scripture? Are you infallible in your interpretations of Scripture? Yes or no?
If your a Catholic you have to work real hard to get out of the Catholic Church so you can have salvation faith. If you don't satan will keep you believing your saved when in reality your not.
On the contrary. It's all too easy to fall away from the one true faith into lassitude or error. All humans have to fight against concupiscence which we inherit from original sin.
***** That's not an argument; it's a historical and theological fact, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do or say to change that. Sorry about your luck.
***** All St. Paul to the Galatians 2:7 says is that St. Paul was an ex-gentile and St. Peter was an ex-Jew. Proper understanding of Apocalypse 12:6 requires reading 12:1-6. The woman and the stars are a double symbolism. The woman represents both Mary who bore Christ painlessly while she experiences pain amidst the persecution of her sons and daughters in Christ, the brothers and sisters of and in Christ (St. Mark 3:31, St. Paul to the Ephesians 5:22-23), the Christians. She also symbolizes the Church who bears Christ by us abiding Him and Him in us (St. John 6:35; St. Matthew 26:26-29; 28:20; St. Mark 14:22-25; St. Luke 22:19-20; 1 St. Paul to the Corinthians 11:23-27). The 12 stars symbolize the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles. Satan was mad because Mary said no to him and yes to God (St. Luke 1). She crushed his head like God said she would (Genesis 3:15). St. John was shown the fight between St. Michael and Satan ending with Satan being casted out. You can't properly understand the Scripture without the Tradition behind it - the same Tradition the Church used via her Magisterium to weed out the false "Scripture" from the Scripture and compile it into the Holy Bible.
Protestants are divided into countless denominations so who doing this? For clearly the Holy Spirits unites? Who is leading you into so many denominations with differing beliefs????
2) The concept is absurd. How could works be measured as sufficient in number when there is no set number? How could the happenstance of longevity (a greater longevity consequently allowing a greater number of works to be accomplished) hold any relevance, when no one ultimately has any control over their longevity? The whole idea of works being required for salvation is a baseless one, utterly meaningless in any possible context.
@CrimsonCatholic Okay, the verse that totally obliterates your belief that it was Jesus' death "before the foundation of the world" that saved us. Col 1:20, "...and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace BY THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS." By the blood of His cross all things were reconciled to Him. The Crucifixion reconciled all things to Him. Not some imagined death before time. Deal with it.
First of all, getting all emotional and saying a prayer does not neccessarily mean you are saved. Jesus did finish the job of paying the penalty for ALL sin when he died and rose. It IS finished. Forgiveness and eternal life are available to ALL but not all want it. The only thing you need to do it place your faith and trust in Christ. That is no a work, it's taking your faith (we all have it) and moving to a different source for salvation. It's changing your mind, not earning favor.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Jesus nor His apostles ever refer to Mary as a queen. There are just no facts of Scripture to support this. I don't know, I think I can find a fact that shows that Mary is everyone's spiritual mother. That may not be the title of queen but it sure is a noteworthy role. Most theologians agree that the queen spoke of in Rev refers to Mary. Who wrote the book of Rev? I think you will find many theologians believe it was John the apostle who called Mary queen of heaven.
woh..... what JESUS mean it is "it is finished" is that his death from the cross is the salvation from our original sin we inherit from ADAM....All we had to do is accept him, as the thief that hang on the cross.......
Added to my last comment--- If you read The Bible you'll notice that God already planned everything. God chose whom to save. Jesus and every apostle teach that. plus, Jesus and all the apostles teach exclusivity & sufficiency of Christ..which I think you don't believe in. 1 Corinthians 15 shows us to preach the Gospel you've to have scripture-accordance to tell it to be true. If God's divine plan--Gospel is based on Scripture, Nobody has authority to bring contrary teachings other than what Christ & apostles taught. Bible speaks for itself. Don't make claims about Word of God without knowing what it says...
God wills that everyone should be saved. "Whosoever" according to John 3:16. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 599 Jesus' violent death was not the result of chance in an unfortunate coincidence of circumstances, but is part of the mystery of God's plan, as St. Peter explains to the Jews of Jerusalem in his first sermon on Pentecost: "This Jesus [was] delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God."393 This Biblical language does not mean that those who handed him over were merely passive players in a scenario written in advance by God.394 600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of *"predestination"*, he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had *predestined* to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396
Ephesians 2…8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.--------------- we act good and Holy because we are saved (i.e. we live/act our salvation) not to gain salvation.. works are fruits of faith not path to salvation Jesus held people responsible for obeying scriptures because they testified about him...following the scripture they should have known He is Messiah but they created work-salvation theology ignoring that obeying the scripture prophesies Messiah.
True enough. But the scriptures teach that you *must* be baptized (Mark 16:16 & John 3:3-5 (born again of water and spirit) & Acts 2:37-38 & 10:48 & 19:1-7) and *must* eat the body and blood of Christ (John 6:53-58). These don't count as works, they are merely signs, sacraments, that apply the merits of Christ to your salvation. You're not doing any "work" except having faith and receiving, and even those are gifts of the Holy Spirit. Never trust the gospel of a preacher that does not preach the necessity of baptism. Jesus mandated to the apostles in Matthew 28:19-20: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
dlwatib Have You ever read Book of Romans...that was espacially for you Plus most important thing all covenants (unconditional were made with Israel and in the new Covenant Gentiles were Grafted in... Works are fruits of faith as both James and Paul eplain -before men///works are not Path to salvation.. Salvation is by Christ Alone...Read What Jesus say about If you are trying to contribute to gain your salvation then Jesus died in vain and Grace is not Grace.... Read Scriptures...Read the rest of John 3 and if in greek it'd be more awesome for you... Know that Jews wrote Tanakh, Jews Wrote NT and it has authority recorded in it...no pagan organisation has authority on It or Authority over it... God's Love and Grace, Sovereignty are simple to understand from the Scripture...fallen man wants credit on everything and glory among men and no sovereignty of God... It's just Simple if you listen to What The word of God says...
I can assume that salvation is a work of God from start to finish because if we played ANY active part then there could be boasting. And Paul says that God has made a way through which no man can boast. (Eph 2:8-9) (Rom 3:27) I thought you were going to say something worthwhile about the lack of Protestant teaching about the perseverance of the saints. Shame...
@decapodproductions Are you saying Jesus committed suicide? Sorry, but Heb 9:11-14 says nothing about God killing God. Your posts have gone from the ridiculous to the bizarre to the blasphemous. Besides, Heb 9:11-14 says that it is His blood that secured eternal redemption. You say His spirit did that, the Bible says His blood did that. Hmm...who should I believe?! Besides, what soul did Jesus kill "from the beginning?" His human soul didn't exist until His Incarnation in Mary's womb...
Also study Daniel 9, what does it teach? it is final, sufficient fulfillment... Protestants don't rebuke your theology Bible does. Search the scriptures, it has real Jesus in it.
I don't know how you get from Daniel 9 that you don't have to do anything to be saved. Just to get to talk to the angel Gabriel, Daniel had to 1) set his face unto the Lord God 2) seek God through prayer and supplications 3) with *fastings* 4) and *sackcloth* 5) _make his confession_ 6) remind God of His covenant 7) beg for mercy 8) confess the sins of the nation of Israel. _Making a confession_ is a Catholic sacrament not usually offered by Protestant churches.
dlwatib I'm not scholar in Prophecy but I can say You really haven't studied prophecy did you? among all that prophecy you concentrated upon what Daniel "did".... and ignored what God told him...Preterism is very dangerous... Med-Evil Church broke the Jewish Root of Christians from Jews in 325AD... and now try to boast how foundational they are?... No true Prophet of Israel would supercede or try to take authority or contradict God's word..then anyone who does is False and is cursed according to Both Law, Prophets, Epistles too... Don't presuppose...know the root, know what God says not a man who denies the First Verse of The Bible...
@MRGV7373 Do I have to forgive others of their sins in order to be saved? Do I have to care for my family in order to be saved? Do I have to do the will of God in order to be saved? Do I have to work for the food that leads to eternal life to be saved? Do I have to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man in order to be saved? Do I have to keep the Commandments in order to be saved? Simple yes or no answers will be accepted.
Is this man confusing the work of Christ in our hearts, turning us to a point of repentance, with our own "works?" I would sincerely like to know where this man gets his theories. Does he study the original language of the old and new testaments, or is he just giving his opinion?
Lmao so let's see your theory in practice. 40,000 Protestant denominations and counting. Guess the holy spirit has multiple personality disorder in your opinion. The scripture is ours. We are the ones who created the bible. We were there. You were not.
Roy the Old Testament was finished the New Testament was not. The New Testament writings were not finished until around 100AD. No one knew what was scripture until the fourth century. There were literally hundreds of documents floating around that various people wrote.
Here The very first Christian Bible was produced by the Catholic Church - compiled by Catholic scholars of the 2nd and 3rd century and approved for general Christian use by the Catholic Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). The very first printed Bible was produced under the auspices of the Catholic Church - printed by the Catholic inventor of the printing press, Johannes Gutenberg. Protestants have fully accepted each and every one of the 27 books that the Holy Spirit inspired Catholics to select for the New Testament over 1,500 years ago. ........... In about 367 AD, St. Athanasius came up with a list of 73 books for the Bible that he believed to be divinely inspired. This list was finally approved by Pope Damasus I in 382 AD, and was formally approved by the Church Council of Rome in that same year. Later Councils at Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD) ratified this list of 73 books. In 405 AD, Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse reaffirming this canon of 73 books. In 419 AD, the Council of Carthage reaffirmed this list, which Pope Boniface agreed to. The Council of Trent, in 1546, in response to the Reformation removing 7 books from the canon (canon is a Greek word meaning “standard”), reaffirmed the original St. Athanasius list of 73 books. ......... " The New Testament was written between AD 45 and AD 150 and includes twenty-seven books. It is made up of four narratives of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus: the Gospels, a narrative of the apostles' ministries in the early Church; Acts of the Apostles, twenty-one early letters consisting of Christian counsel, instruction, and encouragement; the Epistles; and Revelation, a book of prophecy. It is perhaps needless to say that the Bible was not originally written in English (though the way some people represent it you might sometimes wonder). The prominent original language of the Old Testament was Hebrew; Greek was the language of the New Testament. What we have today is a translation into English from the original languages of the prophets, apostles, and evangelists. In every case, it is important for us to realize that the cultures, countries, and times were very different than what we experience today. Some things can mean one thing in one culture and something quite different in another culture. I learned this very quickly as I began to travel from country to country in the earliest years speaking. In our own lives, we experience this in misunderstandings between generations as close as parents and children. It is also critically important that we remember that the Bible, as we have it now, was not printed at all until almost fifteen hundred years after the birth of Jesus Christ. It is easy to forget in our modern world, where we can print and publish works from home computers and download them to digital devices, that not all eras have enjoyed the luxury and convenience of the printing press. For almost one and a half millennia after the life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus, the only books that existed were handwritten. This certainly places the modern Protestant-Evangelical idea that every person must carry around a Bible in perspective, along with their criticism that Catholics didn’t read the Bible before the Reformation. lf you had lived prior to the invention of the printing press, like the men and women of the first fifteen hundred years of Christianity, you would have had no access whatsoever to a physical Bible. This is not because the Church wanted to keep people ignorant, nor was it because Church leaders did not want people reading the Scriptures. It was simply because every single copy of the Bible was an original manuscript that a Catholic monk or Friar had laboriously copied onto pages of parchment or vellum. For a millennium and a half Christians learned about the stories that fill the Scriptures from sermons at Mass, by seeing them in stained glass windows, paintings, statues, or by watching them performed in mystery plays. Today, our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters place an enormous emphasis on reading and studying the Bible. And while I am in favor of both, it is critical that we do not lose sight of the fact that hundreds of millions of people came to know Christ without ever owning or studying the Bible. Many modern Christians make it sound like it is impossible to receive salvation without a Bible. If that were the case, what happened to the people who lived before the Bible was printed? What happened to the people who lived before it was even written in its present form? How were men and women introduced to Jesus before the sixteenth century? How were the people of foreign lands inspired to live the Christian life before the Bible was available in mass production? It is here, in the gap of most Protestants' understanding of Christian history, that you find the Catholic Church! ".
You can discuss Simon Magus all you want conspiracy theories are out there but they've all been disproven you can use the early church history and early Christian writings to verify everything the Catholic Church claims.
@decapodproductions Answer the questions!!! Who killed Jesus before creation? How was He killed? Was His soul killed since He didn't have a body? If all the work necessary was done before creation, why did you quote from Phil 1:13 about God working in us? Was His work done before creation or not? Gal 3:13 - if Christ redeemed us from the law before the law ever existed, why did we have the law if we were already redeemed from it? Your logic, sir, with all due respect, is pathetic.
@decapodproductions Rom 3:24-25 says we receive our redemption through Christ who was an expiation "by His blood," not "spirit." What say ye to that?! Eph 1:7, "In Him we have redemption through His blood." Not, "spirit." You don't seem to understand that God is outside of time. He is in the eternal present. All eternity is constantly before Him. So, in one sense, from God's perspective, what I am writing now was done before the foundation of the world. He could already see it. Capiche?!
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Peter Do any of the apostles ever claim that Peter is the supreme leader of the church in their writings? Not that I am aware but Christ does. Does Peter ever speak of himself in that manner? No he personally does not as far as I am aware but many passages tell us that Peter leads the other apostles. Christ makes this proclamation and the church teaches it. If that is your basis for your argument, you are free to believe what you wish as am I.
Each time one of the Apostles comes across someone who wants to become a believer, they say "Repent and believe in the Good News!"
In the Latin edition of the bible it says:30 Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost. His earthly life and mission was completed. For a time He was out of time but, He rose again and continued the next part of His mission. In time He gave His message to the Apostles, His chosen, to bring into time the way to eternal life theough the Sacraments of the Church - His Church and His Body.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Even in the first council of the church in Acts 15 it is James who makes the final decision and not Peter.
James was in communion with Peter. All of the apostles had the authority to teach from scripture as do all Bishops and Priests in union with the Pope.
Paul persecuted the Christians (disunity) until he was asked why he was persecuting Christ. He then became a leader of the church and no longer persecuted Christ.
So all we have to do is " think" we are saved, and we're saved? or just believe we are saved and we are saved.?
@ContendingEarnestly You're right, there is nothing that WE can do, at least a lone anyway. As John said, it was an act of cooperation with what Christ did. Therefore we need to cooperate and take part in what Jesus did for us. The best way to do that is through the Mass, which Jesus commanded us to do, and also through helping others, another command given by Jesus
@chineseheart Amen! We must believe in Jesus to be saved. We must also live out our faith in our daily lives. Just as James says, these good works complete our faith. God rewards our good works done as a physical manifestation of our faith with grace, which justifies us. May God bless you.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true3
"Was Mary prayed to? "
Prayer to the saints has always been practiced by Early Christians. Not in the sense of worship but in the sense of asking them to pray for us. Scripture tells us God does not listen to sinners but he will listen to the righteous. Saints in heaven have been made righteous by Christ, so the Father will listen to them before he will listen to us.
I personally want them praying for me and I would think everyone would.
There is a difference between being offered the opportunity of salvation and accepting the opportunity of salvation; the latter requires you doing something; the acceptance itself, and abidence as a life course. Christians are inspired to do works as a consequence of their faith, but works could never be required for salvation. An enfant who dies, without having done any works, is not saved because they have done no works, while someone with great longevity, and who has done works, is? (Cont.)
It is really amazing his level of mis-understanding of soteriology. As is the case of most cathoics, always focusing on the wrong thing. There isn't anything you can do to begin with. We are dead in our sins and tresspasses. Dead people aren't able to do much for themselves last i checked. and it is Christ's redemptive work which was completed on the cross. It is God's; faith, grace, salvation, redemption, regeneration, belief...its all God. And its a free gift, so stop trying to work for it!
@toeveryoneananswer Re: No place in Scripture does it come close to make Mary a queen.2
The title was challenged to the point that the RCC declared it at the council of Ephesus 431.
The RCC has always convened a council of Bishops, including Protestants as I understand, when challenged on doctrines of faith. I find it interesting that it was not challenged more so much earlier on since it took until 431AD for this challenge to be put to rest.
The mother of a King holds this title.
What characteristics do we see for the church in the NT? Did they believe in the Marian doctrines, the pope or indulgences
They believed in these as much as the Trinity, Alter Call, Sinner prayer, and which books were inspired and part of the bible. One thing can be proven by history is that the church Christ started was call the Catholic Church with the Church in Rome residing over the Faith in Love
@chineseheart I would say, "Lord, there is nothing I could do to be worthy of spending eternity with you. I believe in your promises and that you died for my sake so that I could once again have a relationship with you. I tried my best to live my life as you desire. I'm still unworthy of you, Lord, but I pray that you have mercy on my soul and allow me to spend eternity with you."
What would you reply?
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Scripture never makes an exception that she was without sin.
You are right, she was conceived by a mortal man and woman but she was made pregnant by the HS and not a man. She did give birth to God in the form of man. That is what is meant by "imaculate conception" not her birth.
Mary is set apart from others concerning sin and the church teaches this according to both scripture and tradition.
I believe that Christ created his church to teach with his authority.
@toeveryoneananswer, I believe so. Saying that general revelation continues is essentially saying that you believe things which the Church does not currently teaches, if those dogmas are i contradiction with an already revealed truth then you are in error.
In regard to the canon of scripture. Since Catholics hold that the Bible is the inspired word of God; denying or adding a book to the current canon would be a monstrous sin because you would be denying God's word and elevating man's word.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Purgatory and prayers
When one dies in friendship with Christ, they are saved and purged of their sins. Those under purgation are saved because they have not rejected Christ throughout their lives. They are alive in Christ and heirs to his kindom. They can hear us just like any saint. They can likewise pray for us just like any saint.
Do you want verses that support prayers to saints or references to purgatory? There are many.
So I have look at the ECFs and found comments that the early church believed in the leadership of the bishop of Rome, Mary as ever virgin, and the immaculate Mary (sinless in otherwords) Thinks I found no comments about yet are Alter Calls or the sinners prayer needed to be born again.
@cathomania well said! i really dont understand the salvation by faith alone doctrine because it seems to imply that it doesnt matter what one does as long as one believes- one could be a drug dealer or a murderer and never seek absolution, never face ones own guilt and feel the pain of it,never suffer remorse and sorrow or compassion for the victims of our sins, or the offense to God and yet still go to heaven just because we believed-that never made any sense to me!
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true2
"Was Mary prayed to or thought of as the queen of heaven by the New Testament church? "
I do not know the New Testament church, so I cannot answer that question.
Queen of Heaven is a title given to Mary by Christians including the RCC, the Anglican, Lutheran, and Eastern Orthodox churches. The RCC states it is because her Son, who is the King of Israel and the Universe.
In the Hebrew tradition, the mother of the king is the queen
Yes, that very question was ask several times in the Bible. After a pointed sermon by Peter, the question was ask, “what shall we do?” he answered, Repent, and be baptized…in the name Jesus.” Act 2:37-38
Jesus said: “verile, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 6:47
Once again the question was asked: “what must I do to be saved?” Paul answered, “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ , and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:30, 31
To repent; to believe in Jesus Christ, to be baptized, and to keep the Commandments (Matt 19:16, 17) is the part you’ll have to do and Jesus will do the rest.
@cburton103
I am close to Bible. I long to see one day that all Monotheism / denomination will come together within our Lord.
if you come to the gate of heaven and Jesus is at the gate asking "what makes me opening the gate to receive you?"
What will you reply?
Having Faith is not 'adding' to Christ's saving work. It is the means of 'applying' that saving work. If Salvation is the water then faith is the hose pipe. It is the 'means' through which the total and complete work of Christ comes into a persons life.
Regardless, the Bible teaches that we are by nature Spiritually Dead. (Gen 2:17) (Eph 2:1) (Col 2:13) Paul is saying that we play no part in 'initiating' our reception of salvation. Faith is a gift from God to receive the gift of God!
i think that you do something [works] because you are saved, you have what we call saving faith. you dont do something to be saved, those things that you do are the fruits of justification. thats the enswer to the question. salvation is the work of God,
@toeveryoneananswer, well the Church wouldn't add it to the canon. It most likely would be considered instructive and beneficial for reading, it however would not be considered scripture.
Baptism nullifies your argument
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Did they believe in the Marian doctrines, the pope or indulgences?
When I read someone making statements like this, my first thought is that this person believes what ANTI-Catholic sources tell them.
If you are referring to what is explained in the Catechism, then yes, the Early Church Fathers and Christians did believe these things. You will only know about them via holding fast to the traditions passed on orally.
Who do you turn to for these traditions?
@cordsworks That almost sounds sort of Calvinistic though. And I would argue there's more Sola Fide folks who believe that you really don't have to do anything at all, than who recognize that you do actually have to do something. Most ironically, the sola fide folks who say you don't have to do anything then turn around and say "all you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior." Which is in fact doing something...
@CanCayate2 I had no idea I was working with such an intellectual here. Seriously though, your comment is irrelevant. Our omniscient God, being omniscient and all, knows how to communicate with us. So, through the prophets and the Church, he has shared with the world the knowledge I have shared with you. If you have any honest questions, I'd be more than happy to entertain them. God bless.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: No place in Scripture does it come close to make Mary a queen.
That is the debate that has been going on for a very long time. I happen to disagree. I do not see this title as referring to Isreal, as many Protestants claim, but rather Mary in scripture.
I do agree that giving her honor that makes her a God is worship. Catholics do not do this.
Scripture talks about holding fast to traditions. This title was held by more than the RCC alone.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: A certain kind of knowledge is required by an individual before they are baptized such as repentance and believing certain things about Christ first.
I cannot say that I agree. You are right Acts 16:14,33 does not say infants were part of the families being Baptised but we cannot assume they were not.
Your statement implies that God will not save those who are not old enough to make a profession of faith. Do you believe Christ would condemn infants? (2 Peter 3:9)
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Pope, Mary, Saints
I understand your desire to separate yourself from anything that could be considered not Christ. All faithful Catholics share that desire.
You reject the idea that Christ would give any authority to his church that is run by sinful men.
I reject the idea that Christ did not create a visible church that has the authority to teach truth so that no misunderstandings about Christ, Scripture, Traditions and Salvation can exist.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Marian doctrines, indulgences, pope leader.
I must ask again what reference to these things cannot be true as provided in the Catechism of the Catholic church? What has changed about these things that you do not believe are from God?
Was Mary not honored by the angel Gabriel and her cousin Elizabeth?
Does scripture not tell us that some could be made well and even saved by the faith of others?
Was Peter not the leader of the apostles?
@cburton103
Indeed, it is faith that leads us to salvation while good works complete our faith on our time on earth. However there are circumstances that one does not have the luxury to reflect his faith on good works like a patient at his terminal time and turns himself to Jesus by faith. Will he be saved?
In God we Trust. May our Lord bless you and your family for the good deed you have on others.
Also, most Prodestants would agree with this argument
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Scripture nowhere teaches we are to pray to Mary or the saints but to Jesus alone
Pray in the sense that worship is involved, I agree, scripture tells us that is a mortal sin = death.
Scripture does tell us to pray for each other. Asking Mary or any other saint to pray for us to God is scriptural because we beleive they are alive with Christ in heaven and heirs to his kingdom. In addition to being alive, they are free from sin, we are not. God will listen to them.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: no one knows what they were since they were never written down.
Well, that is the topic of discussion. How can you be positive that no one knows given that the RCC is 2000 years old and claims to have been witness to those tradtions.
The veneration of Mary is one example. The church's understanding of Mary's association with Christ has grown in the church over 2000 years but Mary has always been highly regarded starting with the angel Gabriel.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: To say she never sinned is a denial of the clear teaching of Scripture as her supposed queenship.
Adam and Eve were created free from sin. Why is it so impossible to believe Mary was born free from sin? I find it easy to believe that the Father would have his son born of a woman who was free from sin (original and actual) rather than one that subject to sin.
The church was given the authority to teach the word of God and Christ said it is guided by the HS.
@My3rdeyesopen In other words, you do not believe in salvation by faith alone, as most Protestants do.
@John Martignoni.
You said it yourself: “It is not me who saved myself.”
This is what Protestants are saying. Not that good works are not essential to the Christian life. Not that we don’t need to cooperate with the Spirit. But that all of that comes from the Spirit, including our cooperation and the good works cooperatively wrought. God is the author of our works. God is the author of our cooperation. God is the author of our salvation. He is the only cause that is on the primary level of causation. Our efforts are merely on the secondary level of causation. And there are plenty of CATHOLICS whom I have spoken with who agree with this assessment. (As regards salvation, everything is all of grace. It is not me who has saved myself. Exactly. Thanks for agreeing with Protestants!)
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Is it not true that the pope stands above all of the other bishops?
That statement will require a specific understanding of what you mean to be answered. It was Peter who was to give strength to his brothers and keep them united in their faith. He alone held the keys to heaven only because Christ gave them to him. I could go on but I am not sure it is neccessary.
Do you see the Pope as claiming he is above Peter?
@cindygiaquinto James 5:16 says confess your sins to each other. I'm not sure how this relates. Sometimes the best way to answer is with a question. How about having them explain Matthew 16:19 (Apostles are given the authority to bind and loose on earth and in heaven) or John 20:23 (Apostles given the authority to forgive sin.) Logically, if you can visit the confessional and see a priest who can trace the lineage of his ordination back to the Apostles...then he can forgive too!
@chineseheart Yes, the man who turns to the Lord on his deathbed may be saved. Catholics pray that even the men with the most hardened hearts accept the Lord in their last moments of life. We believe that the Lord desires that all men will be saved, so we in turn hope that they accept the Lord's gift of salvation at whatever point in their life, and continue to walk with the Lord for the remainder of their life, even if it is short. May I ask what denomination you are? You seem close to Catholic
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true
"Was Peter the supreme head? "
Good question. Jesus did give the keys to him and no one else. He is the only one of the apostles that said Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus asked Peter 3 times “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?" “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”
In my opinion, that makes him supreme but it is implied not declared.
So yes and no.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Its about what is true4
"I also realize that within the visible church there will be unbelievers and believers with false teachers and true teachers. The Scriptures warn of this and we must always be on guard against false teachings. Would you agree?"
Amen to that. No disagreement there. Have you watched any of Michael Voris' videos? He has no qualms about exposing those wolves in the RCC.
Wolves are the cause of such bruttle attacks over the past 60 years.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: The early Christians did not believe in the Marian doctrines.
I watched a documentary on traditions passed on orally. In this documentary, they have proven that what was originally held as tradition by various groups were accurately passed on by groups of people rather than individuals.
The claim that you make is that the RCC lied to maintain control. I do not believe that but rather that Christ did not lie when he said the HS will guide his church.
John 6:29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”
The power unto salvation is found in the gospel, not the hearer. The gospel is what stop a sinner in their tracks to ponder the gospel
The gospel in its own power is what cuts through the sin allowing the message of the gospel to be heard
This is why all who are in heaven will be casting their crowns at the feet of Jesus
food for thought. my "off the cuff" answer is that you answered your question in your example, when you said you "answered the alter call". I think the answer is the thing that gets done by us, not the prayer (it's not a magic spell), but the answering of God calling you. By grace you are saved through faith, I knock if any man answers I will come in and dine with him and he with me. It's the answering of the grace extended to you that then puts you under his salvation.
Read John 6:29 again. *The word "only" is not there.* John 6 is a very poor choice of a chapter for a Protestant to try to prove that belief is all you have to do:
53 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: *Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood*, you shall not have life in you.
54 *He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life:* and I will raise him up in the last day.
55 *For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.*
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
@@dlwatib my friend i am from greece and i read greek Holy bible...!
you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood,-->>> That is symbols... Not real...!!
Matthew 26 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom
the blood not is real but is symbols....!
Becouse Jesus not can drink the real blood-->> 10 “ ‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood.
Jesus Say-->>> Matthew 5 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Remember Jesus did he was circumcised as the law said...!!
Jesus dont can drink the Blood but the -->>Matthew 26 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom
The blood is symbol And you must dring and eat the symbols flesh and blood jesus.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Peter was one of the leaders of the church but never is he spoken of as the supreme leader in any verse.
What does 'supreme pontiff' mean according to the RCC?
CCC875
...The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority, but by virtue of Christ's authority; not as a member of the community, but speaking to it in the name of Christ...
According to the RCC, your idea of 'supreme' is misunderstood. Peter was the leader.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Oral Traditions
It has been proven that traditions can be accurately passed on from generation to generation orally by groups of poeple and not individuals. Are you really saying that the traditions of the Early Church have been lost?
I ask again, which church has those tradtions practiced by the Early Church Fathers and Early Christians? Only one church has maintianed the tradition of passing authority on to the next generation via the laying on of hands.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Peter
Do any of the apostles ever claim that Peter is the supreme leader of the church in their writings? Not that I am aware but Christ does.
Does Peter ever speak of himself in that manner? No he personally does not as far as I am aware but many passages tell us that Peter leads the other apostles. Christ makes this proclamation and the church teaches it.
If that is your basis for your argument, you are free to believe what you wish as am I.
Well yea, lets see... Ya havta: Repent, believe in the gospel, confess sins (to God, and/or the person who was offended ), stop "practicing sin" (transgressing The Law of God), and start "practicing righteousness"/ obedience to The Torah....
Scripture says salvation is so simple a child can understand it, that's why the gospel of John uses the word "BELIEVE" over 80 times, an average of more than 4 times a chapter. Can you point to the word "works" in the gospel of John, and what context it's being used? We believing do good works to please God, to help others, and to "recieve a better resurrection". There is no way anyone can justify works based salvation after reading scripture, that's why God denied Cains works of his hands. The lamb Abel offered signified the Lamb of God Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. The antichrist has lead billions to hell, and will lead many more.
@decapodproductions Gal 4:5, Christ redeemed those born under the law after He was born of woman - how does that fit with your belief that redemption was accomplished "before the world began?" Heb 9:14-15, it is His death on the cross by which the "blood of Christ...since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant." Was His blood shed "before the world began?" Lk 21:28, Jesus tells them their "redemption" is in the future.
@decapodproductions God killed God?! Please give me book, chapter, and verse on that one? How did God kill God? Souls do not die, so how did God kill His own soul? And, no, you are not answering my questions: 1) How did God die? 2) If God stopped working from the "foundation of the world," then why did you quote from Phil 1:13 about how God works in us? Either His work is done, or it's not? So, is His work done, or not? Yes, or no? Answer the questions...2nd warning.
@toeveryoneananswer, the canon of scripture is a tradition not contained in the Bible. As well as the teaching that general revelation ended at the death of the last apostle. These are just 2 off the top of my head.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Scripture nowhere teaches we are to pray to Mary or the saints2
I understand that you are defining "pray to" as meaning worship. That is not how the RCC defines this word.
If you beleive that asking a saint to pray for you is worship, then do not do it as it is not required for salvation.
google for a better description than I can provide here.
"Do Catholics Worship Mary? suite101" and
"Do Catholics Worship Idols? suite101?"
This Argument is laid to rest.
@CanCayate2 Only there's one massive, gaping flaw in your strategy: you know neither the day nor the hour of your death. That's straight from Matthew 25:13, today's very applicable Gospel reading. Not to mention, God is omniscient, so he would know whether or not you were being sincere.
What's the point of your comment anyways?
Read Roman Capter 10:9 - 13
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Lets focus on prayer to someone who has died. Where in Scripture does it teach that when a person dies, that person who has died can hear your prayers and do something about it?
You mean Purgatory. Sure, we can discuss this.
Are you sure you want to go there since you are not convinced that the RCC is the visible church Jesus established? You did say you have no problem with a visible church established by Christ. You never said which one.
Purgatory it is....
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Any church that teaches things not found in Scripture is not teaching the truth.
That is not necessarily true. The RCC is exluded from your statement.
There are many things that Jesus did that are not in scriptures. Who teaches those things if they are not passed down by word of mouth (John 20:30)?
Who teaches us what the Early Church Fathers believed (Hebrews 13:7,2 Thessalonians 2:15)?
Even Luther acknowledged the RCC for keeping these traditions.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: To say she never sinned is a denial of the clear teaching of Scripture as her supposed queenship.
Are you so positive the Early Church Fathers believed that Mary was a sinner? I can find a seemingly contradiction in scripture to any scripture you post. Does that mean that Mary never sinned is a denial fo scripture teachings?
I don't see how the title "Queen of Heaven" exhaults her higher than what scripture tells us. This title is found in other religions as well.
@decapodproductions You've got some bizarre theology there, my friend. So, Jesus was killed before creation? Who killed Him? How was He killed? I mean, He didn't have a body until He was incarnated in the womb of Mary. And, if God stopped working from the "foundation of the world," then how is it you quote (under video #5 in this series) from Phil 1:13 which says, "for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure?" Either he's done working, or he's not...which is it?
There is no Greek word that specifies "brother". Instead, the Greek word used in the passage(s) you're alluding to can also mean cousin, which is how many early interpreters of Scripture and Church historians viewed these passages. Show me the earliest example you can find of someone interpreting these verses the way you do, please.
i believe you have to follow the 10 commandments. I believe Jesus died for us to be able to repent. The Bilbe says what it say & means what it means. People just have to understand that some questions will not be answered until after death. I have heard & believe that the way to be saved is to follow his commandments. Not 50% not 99% but 100%. I understand that we are all siners & i am not saying it is easy but that is what i get out this.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Jesus gives authority to others as well Matthew 18:18-20
I don'tdeny this and the RCC teaches it.
Again I think it is your understanding of the word "supreme" that is cause of friction. I see the Pope having the same authority as did Peter and all Bishops in union with him as having the same authority as the apostles.
I see the Pope as a minister of God, many Protestants see him as a dictator. If Peter were to commit a sin, was his teaching authority removed?
@decapodproductions If she is not under the law, then why did she have to go to the Temple to offer her first born and make the necessary sacrifice? You're making this up on the fly, aren't you?! Indeed you are. Tell me, are you an authentic interpreter of Scripture? Are you infallible in your interpretations of Scripture? Yes or no?
If your a Catholic you have to work real hard to get out of the Catholic Church so you can have salvation faith. If you don't satan will keep you believing your saved when in reality your not.
On the contrary. It's all too easy to fall away from the one true faith into lassitude or error. All humans have to fight against concupiscence which we inherit from original sin.
+roy alfred seaberg Catholics have always been and will always be the only Christians in the world. Let that sink in.
***** That's not an argument; it's a historical and theological fact, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do or say to change that. Sorry about your luck.
***** All St. Paul to the Galatians 2:7 says is that St. Paul was an ex-gentile and St. Peter was an ex-Jew. Proper understanding of Apocalypse 12:6 requires reading 12:1-6. The woman and the stars are a double symbolism. The woman represents both Mary who bore Christ painlessly while she experiences pain amidst the persecution of her sons and daughters in Christ, the brothers and sisters of and in Christ (St. Mark 3:31, St. Paul to the Ephesians 5:22-23), the Christians. She also symbolizes the Church who bears Christ by us abiding Him and Him in us (St. John 6:35; St. Matthew 26:26-29; 28:20; St. Mark 14:22-25; St. Luke 22:19-20; 1 St. Paul to the Corinthians 11:23-27). The 12 stars symbolize the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles. Satan was mad because Mary said no to him and yes to God (St. Luke 1). She crushed his head like God said she would (Genesis 3:15). St. John was shown the fight between St. Michael and Satan ending with Satan being casted out. You can't properly understand the Scripture without the Tradition behind it - the same Tradition the Church used via her Magisterium to weed out the false "Scripture" from the Scripture and compile it into the Holy Bible.
Protestants are divided into countless denominations so who doing this? For clearly the Holy Spirits unites? Who is leading you into so many denominations with differing beliefs????
2) The concept is absurd. How could works be measured as sufficient in number when there is no set number? How could the happenstance of longevity (a greater longevity consequently allowing a greater number of works to be accomplished) hold any relevance, when no one ultimately has any control over their longevity? The whole idea of works being required for salvation is a baseless one, utterly meaningless in any possible context.
@CrimsonCatholic Okay, the verse that totally obliterates your belief that it was Jesus' death "before the foundation of the world" that saved us. Col 1:20, "...and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace BY THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS." By the blood of His cross all things were reconciled to Him. The Crucifixion reconciled all things to Him. Not some imagined death before time. Deal with it.
First of all, getting all emotional and saying a prayer does not neccessarily mean you are saved. Jesus did finish the job of paying the penalty for ALL sin when he died and rose. It IS finished. Forgiveness and eternal life are available to ALL but not all want it. The only thing you need to do it place your faith and trust in Christ. That is no a work, it's taking your faith (we all have it) and moving to a different source for salvation. It's changing your mind, not earning favor.
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Jesus nor His apostles ever refer to Mary as a queen. There are just no facts of Scripture to support this.
I don't know, I think I can find a fact that shows that Mary is everyone's spiritual mother. That may not be the title of queen but it sure is a noteworthy role. Most theologians agree that the queen spoke of in Rev refers to Mary. Who wrote the book of Rev? I think you will find many theologians believe it was John the apostle who called Mary queen of heaven.
woh..... what JESUS mean it is "it is finished" is that his death from the cross is the salvation from our original sin we inherit from ADAM....All we had to do is accept him, as the thief that hang on the cross.......
So, you're saying that the work of salvation was finished with Jesus' death on the Cross?
Added to my last comment--- If you read The Bible you'll notice that God already planned everything. God chose whom to save. Jesus and every apostle teach that. plus, Jesus and all the apostles teach exclusivity & sufficiency of Christ..which I think you don't believe in. 1 Corinthians 15 shows us to preach the Gospel you've to have scripture-accordance to tell it to be true. If God's divine plan--Gospel is based on Scripture, Nobody has authority to bring contrary teachings other than what Christ & apostles taught. Bible speaks for itself. Don't make claims about Word of God without knowing what it says...
God wills that everyone should be saved. "Whosoever" according to John 3:16.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
599 Jesus' violent death was not the result of chance in an unfortunate coincidence of circumstances, but is part of the mystery of God's plan, as St. Peter explains to the Jews of Jerusalem in his first sermon on Pentecost: "This Jesus [was] delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God."393 This Biblical language does not mean that those who handed him over were merely passive players in a scenario written in advance by God.394
600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of *"predestination"*, he includes in it each person's free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had *predestined* to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396
Ephesians 2…8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.--------------- we act good and Holy because we are saved (i.e. we live/act our salvation) not to gain salvation.. works are fruits of faith not path to salvation Jesus held people responsible for obeying scriptures because they testified about him...following the scripture they should have known He is Messiah but they created work-salvation theology ignoring that obeying the scripture prophesies Messiah.
True enough. But the scriptures teach that you *must* be baptized (Mark 16:16 & John 3:3-5 (born again of water and spirit) & Acts 2:37-38 & 10:48 & 19:1-7) and *must* eat the body and blood of Christ (John 6:53-58). These don't count as works, they are merely signs, sacraments, that apply the merits of Christ to your salvation. You're not doing any "work" except having faith and receiving, and even those are gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Never trust the gospel of a preacher that does not preach the necessity of baptism. Jesus mandated to the apostles in Matthew 28:19-20: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
dlwatib Have You ever read Book of Romans...that was espacially for you Plus most important thing all covenants (unconditional were made with Israel and in the new Covenant Gentiles were Grafted in...
Works are fruits of faith as both James and Paul eplain -before men///works are not Path to salvation..
Salvation is by Christ Alone...Read What Jesus say about
If you are trying to contribute to gain your salvation then Jesus died in vain and Grace is not Grace.... Read Scriptures...Read the rest of John 3 and if in greek it'd be more awesome for you...
Know that Jews wrote Tanakh, Jews Wrote NT and it has authority recorded in it...no pagan organisation has authority on It or Authority over it...
God's Love and Grace, Sovereignty are simple to understand from the Scripture...fallen man wants credit on everything and glory among men and no sovereignty of God... It's just Simple if you listen to What The word of God says...
I can assume that salvation is a work of God from start to finish because if we played ANY active part then there could be boasting. And Paul says that God has made a way through which no man can boast. (Eph 2:8-9) (Rom 3:27)
I thought you were going to say something worthwhile about the lack of Protestant teaching about the perseverance of the saints. Shame...
@decapodproductions Are you saying Jesus committed suicide? Sorry, but Heb 9:11-14 says nothing about God killing God. Your posts have gone from the ridiculous to the bizarre to the blasphemous. Besides, Heb 9:11-14 says that it is His blood that secured eternal redemption. You say His spirit did that, the Bible says His blood did that. Hmm...who should I believe?! Besides, what soul did Jesus kill "from the beginning?" His human soul didn't exist until His Incarnation in Mary's womb...
Also study Daniel 9, what does it teach? it is final, sufficient fulfillment...
Protestants don't rebuke your theology Bible does. Search the scriptures, it has real Jesus in it.
I don't know how you get from Daniel 9 that you don't have to do anything to be saved. Just to get to talk to the angel Gabriel, Daniel had to 1) set his face unto the Lord God 2) seek God through prayer and supplications 3) with *fastings* 4) and *sackcloth* 5) _make his confession_ 6) remind God of His covenant 7) beg for mercy 8) confess the sins of the nation of Israel.
_Making a confession_ is a Catholic sacrament not usually offered by Protestant churches.
dlwatib I'm not scholar in Prophecy but I can say You really haven't studied prophecy did you?
among all that prophecy you concentrated upon what Daniel "did".... and ignored what God told him...Preterism is very dangerous... Med-Evil Church broke the Jewish Root of Christians from Jews in 325AD... and now try to boast how foundational they are?... No true Prophet of Israel would supercede or try to take authority or contradict God's word..then anyone who does is False and is cursed according to Both Law, Prophets, Epistles too... Don't presuppose...know the root, know what God says not a man who denies the First Verse of The Bible...
@Luke24v45 Amen :)
@MRGV7373 Do I have to forgive others of their sins in order to be saved? Do I have to care for my family in order to be saved? Do I have to do the will of God in order to be saved? Do I have to work for the food that leads to eternal life to be saved? Do I have to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man in order to be saved? Do I have to keep the Commandments in order to be saved? Simple yes or no answers will be accepted.
Is this man confusing the work of Christ in our hearts, turning us to a point of repentance, with our own "works?" I would sincerely like to know where this man gets his theories. Does he study the original language of the old and new testaments, or is he just giving his opinion?
like the opinions of every protestant interpretation considering they are all fallible men?
Lmao so let's see your theory in practice.
40,000 Protestant denominations and counting.
Guess the holy spirit has multiple personality disorder in your opinion.
The scripture is ours. We are the ones who created the bible. We were there. You were not.
Roy the Old Testament was finished the New Testament was not. The New Testament writings were not finished until around 100AD. No one knew what was scripture until the fourth century. There were literally hundreds of documents floating around that various people wrote.
Here
The very first Christian Bible was produced by the Catholic Church - compiled by Catholic scholars of the 2nd and 3rd century and approved for general Christian use by the Catholic Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). The very first printed Bible was produced under the auspices of the Catholic Church - printed by the Catholic inventor of the printing press, Johannes Gutenberg. Protestants have fully accepted each and every one of the 27 books that the Holy Spirit inspired Catholics to select for the New Testament over 1,500 years ago. ...........
In about 367 AD, St. Athanasius came up with a list of 73 books for the Bible that he believed to be divinely inspired. This list was finally approved by Pope Damasus I in 382 AD, and was formally approved by the Church Council of Rome in that same year. Later Councils at Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD) ratified this list of 73 books. In 405 AD, Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse reaffirming this canon of 73 books. In 419 AD, the Council of Carthage reaffirmed this list, which Pope Boniface agreed to. The Council of Trent, in 1546, in response to the Reformation removing 7 books from the canon (canon is a Greek word meaning “standard”), reaffirmed the original St. Athanasius list of 73 books. ......... "
The New Testament was written between AD 45 and AD 150 and includes twenty-seven books. It is made up of four narratives of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus: the Gospels, a narrative of the apostles' ministries in the early Church; Acts of the Apostles, twenty-one early letters consisting of Christian counsel, instruction, and encouragement; the Epistles; and Revelation, a book of prophecy.
It is perhaps needless to say that the Bible was not originally written in English (though the way some people represent it you might sometimes wonder). The prominent original language of the Old Testament was Hebrew; Greek was the language of the New Testament. What we have today is a translation into English from the original languages of the prophets, apostles, and evangelists.
In every case, it is important for us to realize that the cultures, countries, and times were very different than what we experience today. Some things can mean one thing in one culture and something quite different in another culture. I learned this very quickly as I began to travel from country to country in the earliest years speaking. In our own lives, we experience this in misunderstandings between generations as close as parents and children.
It is also critically important that we remember that the Bible, as we have it now, was not printed at all until almost fifteen hundred years after the birth of Jesus Christ. It is easy to forget in our modern world, where we can print and publish works from home computers and download them to digital devices, that not all eras have enjoyed the luxury and convenience of the printing press. For almost one and a half millennia after the life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus, the only books that existed were handwritten. This certainly places the modern Protestant-Evangelical idea that every person must carry around a Bible in perspective, along with their criticism that Catholics didn’t read the Bible before the Reformation.
lf you had lived prior to the invention of the printing press, like the men and women of the first fifteen hundred years of Christianity, you would have had no access whatsoever to a physical Bible. This is not because the Church wanted to keep people ignorant, nor was it because Church leaders did not want people reading the Scriptures. It was simply because every single copy of the Bible was an original manuscript that a Catholic monk or Friar had laboriously copied onto pages of parchment or vellum. For a millennium and a half Christians learned about the stories that fill the Scriptures from sermons at Mass, by seeing them in stained glass windows, paintings, statues, or by watching them performed in mystery plays.
Today, our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters place an enormous emphasis on reading and studying the Bible. And while I am in favor of both, it is critical that we do not lose sight of the fact that hundreds of millions of people came to know Christ without ever owning or studying the Bible. Many modern Christians make it sound like it is impossible to receive salvation without a Bible. If that were the case, what happened to the people who lived before the Bible was printed? What happened to the people who lived before it was even written in its present form? How were men and women introduced to Jesus before the sixteenth century? How were the people of foreign lands inspired to live the Christian life before the Bible was available in mass production? It is here, in the gap of most Protestants' understanding of Christian history, that you find the Catholic Church! ".
You can discuss Simon Magus all you want conspiracy theories are out there but they've all been disproven you can use the early church history and early Christian writings to verify everything the Catholic Church claims.
@decapodproductions Answer the questions!!! Who killed Jesus before creation? How was He killed? Was His soul killed since He didn't have a body? If all the work necessary was done before creation, why did you quote from Phil 1:13 about God working in us? Was His work done before creation or not? Gal 3:13 - if Christ redeemed us from the law before the law ever existed, why did we have the law if we were already redeemed from it? Your logic, sir, with all due respect, is pathetic.
@decapodproductions Rom 3:24-25 says we receive our redemption through Christ who was an expiation "by His blood," not "spirit." What say ye to that?! Eph 1:7, "In Him we have redemption through His blood." Not, "spirit." You don't seem to understand that God is outside of time. He is in the eternal present. All eternity is constantly before Him. So, in one sense, from God's perspective, what I am writing now was done before the foundation of the world. He could already see it. Capiche?!
@toeveryoneananswer Re: Peter
Do any of the apostles ever claim that Peter is the supreme leader of the church in their writings? Not that I am aware but Christ does.
Does Peter ever speak of himself in that manner? No he personally does not as far as I am aware but many passages tell us that Peter leads the other apostles. Christ makes this proclamation and the church teaches it.
If that is your basis for your argument, you are free to believe what you wish as am I.