I like the way Fr. Robert Barron says it.... it's 'Grace FIRST' by God's grace we are saved, but only if we accept and act on His grace. I enjoy your videos John! Very engaging. Keep up the Good Work! :-)
How many Catholics claim to be a Christian and they live like the world? We see this same thing in Protestant Churches...If we truly believe in Jesus than we walk in righteousness. This is why faith without works is dead..True Christians don't walk in darkness..I'm a Protestant.
Verses are being omitted, perhaps, to support the Protestant's position. The Protestant must answer for them all: 1) "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works?" 2) "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 3) "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 4) "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2
This question is worded interestingly. If justification is "received," it cannot be a result of works. That would make it "earned," or a "reward." "To the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due" (Romans 4:4). Contrast this with justification, which is received by faith, as a free gift. (Romans 4:5-8, 3:21-25, 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc.) It's not about commandments vs. ceremonies. It about terrible sinners being justified by sheer grace, not by works.
@pixelspillover Did you watch the video? John clearly stated that faith is important as well, because we must take the entire Bible into consideration. It seems to me that the point in this video is to show the importance of context when reading the Bible. This is an important topic because Romans 3,4 and Ephesians 2 are often quoted out of context, thus "proving" salvation by faith alone. However, we must remember what Romans 2, James 2, and Matthew 19 say as well. God bless.
@meandeanmiler Well, then, if the Lutheran answers, "No," he is directly contradicting the Bible which says, "Yes," in Rom 2:6-7. Please give us the Lutheran interpretation of Rom 2:6-7?
Pablo, the importance of combating these heresies is that those who believe the Protestant heresy will not be believing in the one Truth established by Christ. To believe anything else goes against Christ's Word. Also, not understanding that works through faith saves, some will have the faith that doesn't save as the bible says. It is this heresy that can trap many to this false faith.
The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved in the end by the grace of God. However, we are not God's robots. He gives us free will to choose good or evil. To be saved one must seek to have faith and do the will of the Father. If we choose through our own free will to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ then by His grace we attain faith. This faith will save us.
@lchiddle Re: CrimsomCatholics gives the impression that faith and work are two different entities that are added together to determine ones salvation. I am not really sure how that is different from "You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did". The RCC teaches that faith and works (ACTIONS) are required for salvation and not faith alone. This goes back to free will. Do we have the free will to reject Christ?
@lchiddle Re: But what works are you talking about? I noticed you asked this question in several of CrimsomCatholics videos. I think he gave a partial answer to this question already by presenting Ezek 18:5-9, 19-24 which talks about some works. I am sure there are plenty more passages that one can reference. My question is what kind of answer to your question might you be seeking?
@cburton103 approval of Abraham. When Abraham started down with the knife, that action (work) wasn't to be justified before God. It was to be seen by Issac. It was to set a precedent and pattern of faith for Issac. As justification takes place in the sight of God, it is by faith, for he sees that the faith is genuine, and that it will produce good works.
blockhead0834, please explain from your Protestant interpretation the following biblical verse from James: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." Also, Abraham was indeed justified by faith....Why? Because he showed his faith by attempting to kill his son....a WORK. Faith and works!
well, I don't try to explain those verses away...we as Christians have to deal with those verses that are part of scripture. Who are the good works for? God sees your heart, He already knows your motives and intentions, He already knows whether you will do something or not. That external expression of faith (works) is not to be justified before God, but before men. Galations 3:16 Abraham serves as an example. He believed God, and that faith was regarded by God to be his continued...
@pixelspillover I agree with what you said except for a few exceptions. To me, it always seems like the "faith alone" camp simply tries to explain away any verses such as James 2, Romans 2, etc so that they don't mean what they say. Even though James 2:24 says, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only", somehow it seems that many would still say that good works (as an expression of faith in Christ) do not justify us by grace. What are your thoughts?
@CrimsonCatholic I love how these discussions manage to stay in St. Paul and no reference to the words of what is His name. . .oh, yeah, Jesus Christ in the Gospels. The problem with St. Paul I presume to say is: he did not present his teachings as cross references to the Gospels but as if they did not exist.
@pixelspillover Rather, we can see how in James 2:21 we are told that Abraham was justified by his works (and other places we are told that Abraham was justified by his faith). Doesn't it seem like saying that we are justified by faith alone requires people to read the Bible rather selectively? I am honestly trying to understand, so please let me know if I'm missing something. God bless.
@decapodproductions If everything is completely and totally up to God, and we have nothing at all to do with whether we are saved or not, then why aren't all people saved? Do you think that God doesn't want to save some people, and so He only works through those that He has chosen for salvation?
@shanana000 I think you didn't read verse 5 to 8 did you? Verses 6-8 say: (6)"Who(GOD) will repay everyone according to his WORKS: (7)ETERNAL LIFE to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through PERSEVERANCE IN GOOD WORKS, (8)but WRATH and FURY to those who SELFISHLY DISOBEY the Truth and OBEY Wickedness" I Don't think it is talkin about another judgement among the chosen ones. It is talkin about THE FINAL JUDGEMENT though Now does WORKS have an important play on Salvation?
@RPenta How can you claim that Paul and Jesus disagreed on this point? Jesus himself converted Paul on the road to Damascus. Check out Matthew 19:16 and following for Jesus's thoughts on the role of works in the process of salvation. God bless.
1 of 2 For he will repay according to each one’s deeds: to those who by patiently doing good SEEK for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. Romans 2:6-7 Immortality is received by those who SEEK for glory and honor by patiently doing good. Those who so SEEK receive immortality. The passage does't say immortality is received BECAUSE of SEEKING or WORKS. Cont'd...
Different protestants have different views. To a Lutheran the answer is a simple no. Only faith can save us. However, we can not answer all questions, but I have no theological training so I could not tell anyone for sure about people before christ.
2 of 2 However, Titus 3:5 EXPLICITLY states that we are NOT SAVED BECAUSE OF WORKS. “he saved us, Not because of any works of righteousness that we have done” Ephesians 2:8-9 EXPLICITLY states that we are saved by grace, through faith. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God- NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS”. Doing good is the proof of saving faith. So, those who do good will be saved, since works are proof of saving faith.
@pixelspillover I'm trying my best to understand how your understanding fits with James 2. Are you saying that works never justify a person, but only faith? I just don't see how this fits with James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only". Your view seems to directly contradict this. Please help me see if this is not correct. Also, I'm not sure how Galatians 3:16 fits in, nor your example of Abraham being saved by faith alone. (continued)
@tario26 Who do you think the "Who" of Rom 2:6 (KJV) is referring to? Look back to Rom 2:5 - it is God Himself. So, whether the translation says "Who" or "He," God is being referred to. Now, given that, please translate Rom 2:6-7 for us? And, where did anyone imply that you can "earn" your salvation? I'm just taking Scripture for what it says, "[God] will render to every man according to his faith?" Unh, unh...according to his "works!" Please explain why you disagree with Paul?
@decapodproductions So, why does 1 Tim 2:4 say that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Are you saying that Jesus is NOT the Savior of all men?
@decapodproductions You decide what the word "all" means based on your preconceived notions. In other words, you are making the Bible fit your beliefs, rather than making your beliefs fit the Bible. "All" in 1 Tim 2 means "all" and we know this from the context - the previous verses were talking about "all," not just, "the saved." Your interpretation would have "all" meaning "all men" in one verse and then meaning "the saved" in the next verse. What gives you the right to decide such things?
Is anyone out there really myopic,prideful or resentful enough to claim that God will reject us based on whether or not it was works or grace alone that saved us? I think it grace alone since what was the agony inflicted through cross really worth if it is not completed and must be added to by our efforts rather than our hearts chosen fidelity. But Catholics are certainly not going to hell for believing that God needs works in addition. We are all brothers in Christ so enough with the vitriol.
I, by your interpretation, will no doubt be damned. Because I do not obey the truth, and I am self-seeking and I obey unrighteousness. A lot. I am not a good person. Fortunately, my salvation is not dependent on me. Because while I was still a sinner, Christ died for me. And if I were righteous, Christ did not die for me because "one would scarcely die for a righteous person." This is a hypothetical statement judging from 3:20, "through the law comes knowledge of sin." Good luck being perfect...
@progressfabbrian Judged by your works but not saved by your works? Really?! Where does the Bible say that? In Rom 2:6-7, it says you will receive eternal life by doing good works. What do you make of that? The thief on the cross: It's not a work to lift yourself up on the nail running through your feet, causing yourself excruciating pain, in order to take a breath so that you can defend Jesus? If he had remained quiet, would he have been saved by his faith alone?
@lsavalla Catholics believe in salvation through faith. Catholics do not believe in salvation through faith alone. This is the distinction missing in many Protestants' minds as they read passages such as Romans 3 and 4 and Ephesians 2. We take all of these verses in conjunction with the context of the rest of the Bible and see that, yes, we are saved by faith, but we are saved by our works that complete that faith as well (James 2:14-26). God bless.
@decapodproductions Who are you to judge who is saved and who is not saved? Does Matthew 7 not say, "Judge not lest ye be judged?" And, in 1 Cor 4, Paul says that he doesn't even judge himself as being acquitted, but I guess you would have judged him, eh? Does Paul not say to leave judgment to the Lord? How dare you place yourself as God over those you deem unsaved. And, why pray for one another if our prayer does nothing? If the saved are saved and the damned are damned - no matter what?!
@decapodproductions Not answering my questions: Why does the Word of God say that God "desires all men to be saved," yet you say "God never planned to save every one?" Who should I believe, you, or the Bible? Or, is God schizophrenic? If everything was done before the foundation of the world, then why does Phil 2:12-13 tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? Why bother commenting here if nothing we do matters? Is it out of conceit? Remember, 2nd warning.
@progressfabbrian No, that's not what I'm saying...please don't put your words in my mouth. Why don't you answer my questions? Are you capable of answering my questions? I repeat, Rom 2:6-7 says you will receive eternal life by doing good works...if you think I'm making it up, why don't you actually read the Bible? Now, again, what does Rom 2:6-7 mean in your world? Question: Do the branches of the vine which is Christ have to produce good fruit to remain attached to the vine? Yes or no?!
@decapodproductions Why is it you get to decide that the word "all" only refers to the elect?! Where does the Bible say that? You do go by the Bible don't you? So, please give me book, chapter, and verse that says the word "all" only refers to the elect? And, in Romans 3:23, when it says, "Since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," I guess that means only the elect have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, right?!
@CrimsonCatholic The answer to your question is nope. However good deeds comes with using Jesus as a role model. Also the ten commandments already ask for good attitude.
Then, Romans Ch 3 goes on to explain how we are all alike under sin. "No one is righteous, no not one." Romans 3:23 For everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous." It is by Jesus, we are declared righteous and fit for heaven. How is this done? Keep reading the quote "People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life..." Not works, faith. Ch 4--> Abraham's faith.
@cburton103 yeah I saw the video, hahahahaha, I understand the point of the video, I was just answering the question made up on top. No amount of works will gain a man eternal life, it's by faith. I know that's not what you believe, but who is the verse speaking to? what group of people? and that phrase "according to their deeds" is used throughout scripture and it denotes the complete justness of judgement of God. continued....
@decapodproductions Furthermore, you claim that in 1 Tim 2:4 when it says that God wants all men to be saved that the word "all" is referring to the elect; well, does the word "all" in 1 Tim 2:1 refer only to the elect? God is telling us to pray only for the elect? Why? The elect don't really need prayers, do they? Afterall, they're the elect for cryin' out loud! And, 1 Tim 2:2 means that only the elect are in high positions...never the damned? Sir, your exegesis is a pile of Martin Luther.
@CrimsonCatholic All Christians depend on the righteousness of Christ as their own imputed righteousness,no one can have any works good enough to merit salvation,our best works are filthy rags before the Lord.
Based on the bible, no, you can't. If you look at the entire passage to understand the context of these verses you will see that he is talking about people judging other people and God's judgement, not salvation.
@abukid I see that you are going through these videos one by one, yet you have failed to answer a single question. "Questions Protestants Can't Answer" was made specifically for people like you. Now, care to take a shot at actually answering the question?
you forgot honor and glory , obviously God is speaking of honor and glory in heaven not on earth , therefore works serve only for our position in Heaven, it-s a hierarchy statement for those who have already the Faith !
CrimsonCatholic No if you don't have faith and faith in Xrist the son of God ! A includes B but B does not includes A . Muslims for example have their faith , they seek just like us honor, glory and immortality in heaven , nevertheless, among good works is the killing of the infidels . question : what is their faith ? Got the picture ? You assume faith is a good thing , God assumes it might be of the devil , therefore doing "good works" without the Xtian Faith is of the Devil and I am not talking about Atheists who don't have faith and neither look for immortality at all !
delicheres No one, when thinking deeply, can believe faith alone. Isn't accepting Jesus as "your personal Lord and Savoir" a work? Yes, it is. So you have no choice but to admit you are saved by a work, this is a fact. And the Bible is very clear that we are NOT always saved, or can never lose our salvation, this is a lie. It's funny how you profess to believe in the Bible, yet most of what you profess is not in the Bible! Most of what Catholicism teaches is found in the Bible, and whatever is not clearly mentioned, the Bible does not contradict. This is because the Bible is Catholic, it's ours! not yours, you are a thief when you claim it's yours. So since I clarified that we have to DO something, it's only now a matter of degrees.
Rhett Quigley Faith alone Saves , Works are your treasures in Heaven but all depend on Faith and faith in Xrist alone ! works might lead you to Heaven under the condition they reflect the image of Xrist otherwise they are pure vanity !
CrimsonCatholic Isa 64:6 .... and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ... Emphasizing the impossibility of good works without faith Paul said : Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: And most important , To whom Paul is Talking in Roman ? what is the context ? we have the answer in the beginning : Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. He is talking TO the Faithfuls not to the pagans much less to the Atheists nor the Muslims , Therefore seeking glory, honor and immortality are of the faithful in Xrist , they are their treasures in Heaven because they acknowledged their works are filthy rags without the help of the holy spirit, if it weren't so what would be the need for a Saviour ? None .
delicheres Quote from catholic.com "Question A Fundamentalist I know has been bashing my Catholic faith by quoting Isaiah 64:6, where the Bible says, "our acts of righteousness are as filthy rags." He says this proves humans have no good works before God. What should I say in return? Answer He misunderstands the verse he is quoting. It does not say that all acts of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, but that those being rendered to him in Isaiah's day were. In context the passage says: Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides you, who acts on behalf of those who wait for him. You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Your sacred cities have become a desert; even Zion is a desert, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and glorious Temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins. (Is 64:4-6, 10-11, NIV) This pertains to a particular historical situation, not to a general condition. The passage appeals to a time when Israelites once had a right relationship with God, when God helped them against their enemies because they waited on him, gladly did right, and remembered his ways. When they sin against him and did not repent and return to their former state, he abandoned them to the will of their enemies, so that even Jerusalem and its Temple were destroyed. (Isaiah speaks of this prophetically, before it happened.) It was during that period of continued sin, leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 B.C., that they had "become like one who is unclean"--they hadn't always been like that. In this state, even the nation's acts of righteousness appeared like filthy rags to God, so he wouldn't help them: "When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right!" (Is 1:15-17). Protestants are often confused about the role Catholics believe good works play in salvation, so you should clear this up for the Fundamentalist you know. You should explain to him that we do not perform good works in order to enter a state of justification. The Council of Trent stated that "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification" (Decree on Justification 8). In fact, it is impossible for an unjustified person to do supernaturally good works, since these are based on the virtue of charity (supernatural love), which an unjustified person does not have. Good works therefore flow from our reception of justification; they do not cause us to enter a state of justification. Good works increase the righteousness we are given at justification and please God, who promises to give us supernatural rewards on the last day, including the gift of eternal life (Rom 2:6-7, Gal 6:6-10)."
Eternal life is not and cannot be a reward. Every Evangelical knows this from Scripture. Catholics can merit an increase of grace - but not grace itself, and only by virtue of being living members of the Body of Christ, *which is itself a grace*. Grace is impossible to deserve - it can come only as a gift, never as a reward, because man cannot possibly have any rights against God. Salvation is, necessarily, wholly of grace and not by works, because to do works is itself a grace. The entirety of salvation, all our good works in Christ included, is grace after grace after grace, from beginning to end. Salvation is not and cannot be by works, in any way. However humiliating to our own "self-respect" that may be. God grants us salvation because He is Good, and because we are not good - not because we are good and deserve salvation. We do not, and we can't. And I'm not a Protestant of any kind, but a Catholic.
@kidasterorig111 You're right, it's nope. But good deeds come as a result of being justified by faith. If you look to the law for good works, you look in the wrong place (Romans 3:20). Anything good is only found in Christ. After all, "there is only one who is good" (Matthew 19:17).
read the whole book of Romans. why didn't Jews receive eternal life? because they tried to gain it by following the Law. Abraham obtained it by faith. don't just take one verse. read the whole book. Paul was very systematic in the book of Romans so you couldn't miss the message
@cburton103 shall receive the reward of the inheritance, which is a reward of grace, and not of debt. In other words, God will render to evil men according to the true desert of their evil deeds; and of his own free grace will render to good men, whom he has made so by his grace, what is suitable and agreeable to those good works, which, by the assistance of his grace, they have been enabled to perform.
@cburton103 God will be the Judge, every man in particular will be judged; and will proceed according to their works; for God will render to wicked men according to the demerit of their sins, the just recompense of reward, eternal damnation; and to good men eternal life, not according to the merit of their good works, which have none in them, but according to the nature of them; such who believe in Christ, and perform good works from a principle of grace, continued...
Once again, a Protestant who fails to explain the following biblical references: Blockhead0834....Please explain them. 1) "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works?" 2) "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 3) "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 4) "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
I would really like to see catholics and protestants lay down their arms. An earnest catholic and an earnest protestant will both be in heaven, since both proclaim Christ as their A1. and at that point both will laugh at their former bickering. Not to say that this is not important to discuss, but in so far as it keeps Christians at arms length it is pernicious and wrong.
@decapodproductions God never planned to save everyone? 1 Tim 2:4, God 'desires all men to be saved." God desires it, but you say it just ain't so. If we have nothing to do whether we become saved or not, then why are you bothering posting to this video? Your words can affect no one's salvation, right? Why waste your time, and ours?! You, of course, are one of those saved, though, right? If you keep posting, without responding to questions asked of you, you will be cut off...1st warning.
God is a God who rewards. Rewards are earned. The bible says we receive our salvation by grace. You can't have it both ways. You have to pick one or the other.
For anyone who is interested in the true promise of salvation through faith, read the entire chapter of Romans 4, it will clear up the confusion my Catholic friend seems to have the scriptures. Peace to you all!
demetrixxxable... It is clear that you don't understand the teachings of the Catholic Church or you would not suggest that Catholics believe that we "make it to HIS kingdom on our own". Catholics believe as the Bible teaches...we are saved by grace through faith; we are saved according to our works....but always through and by the grace of God. One cannot reason with someone who won't at least acknowledge the teaching of his opponent. You stop the debate process by doing this.
CrimsonCatholic: Your synergism is obvious. The real question for you is: Is salvation of man or all of God? Your man center ideology is common in the Roman Church as well in many Protestant Churches. You add nothing new to the debate, just the same old questions that have been answered by the reformers down through Church History. From Augustine to Luther, Sproul, White, Piper and many more prove what Catholicism really is. The truth is, man cannot be saved by his/her good works.(Eph.2:8-9). In saying that, Scripture tell us that if one is truly saved, he/she will do good works. (Ja.2:17). In other words, faith produces good works. Jesus talks about the many who profess their good works. (Mt.7:21-23). Those who are saved are saved because of what Christ did for them.(Ro.8:28-33). Those who rely on good works as a means of salvation are depending on what they do and believe that if they are good enough God will except them. Actually if one believes that he must do good works for his salvation then he is falling from grace (Gal.5:4).
Augustine? you mean the most Catholic Church Father ever? we do need good works for our salvation, but salvation isn't done by works alone, its done by faith and works
No one, when thinking deeply, can believe faith alone. Isn't accepting Jesus as "your personal Lord and Savoir" a work? Yes, it is. So you have no choice but to admit you are saved by a work, this is a fact. And the Bible is very clear that we are NOT always saved, or can never lose our salvation, this is a lie. It's funny how you profess to believe in the Bible, yet most of what you profess is not in the Bible! Most of what Catholicism teaches is found in the Bible, and whatever is not clearly mentioned, the Bible does not contradict. This is because the Bible is Catholic, it's ours! not yours, you are a thief when you claim it's yours. So since I clarified that we have to DO something, it's only now a matter of degrees.
I understand your hypothesis, it is invalid. The Apostle Paul was very clear, For by grace you have been saved through faith; and " not of yourselves", it is the "gift" of God; not as a result of works," that no one should boast. (Eph.2:8-9). Because by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin... For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. (Ro.3:20, 28). Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through " faith" in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, " and not by the works of the law; since by works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Galatians.2:16). You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the law; you are falling from grace. (Galatians.5:4).
James never contradicted Paul. What James is simply saying is if a man has faith in Christ it will be seen by his works. If one does not produce good works then he has not been saved by faith alone. His salvation then must be questioned.
I like the way Fr. Robert Barron says it.... it's 'Grace FIRST' by God's grace we are saved, but only if we accept and act on His grace.
I enjoy your videos John! Very engaging. Keep up the Good Work! :-)
How many Catholics claim to be a Christian and they live like the world? We see this same thing in Protestant Churches...If we truly believe in Jesus than we walk in righteousness. This is why faith without works is dead..True Christians don't walk in darkness..I'm a Protestant.
Verses are being omitted, perhaps, to support the Protestant's position. The Protestant must answer for them all:
1) "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works?"
2) "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
3) "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
4) "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
James 2
This question is worded interestingly. If justification is "received," it cannot be a result of works. That would make it "earned," or a "reward." "To the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due" (Romans 4:4). Contrast this with justification, which is received by faith, as a free gift. (Romans 4:5-8, 3:21-25, 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc.) It's not about commandments vs. ceremonies. It about terrible sinners being justified by sheer grace, not by works.
@pixelspillover Did you watch the video? John clearly stated that faith is important as well, because we must take the entire Bible into consideration. It seems to me that the point in this video is to show the importance of context when reading the Bible. This is an important topic because Romans 3,4 and Ephesians 2 are often quoted out of context, thus "proving" salvation by faith alone. However, we must remember what Romans 2, James 2, and Matthew 19 say as well. God bless.
@meandeanmiler Well, then, if the Lutheran answers, "No," he is directly contradicting the Bible which says, "Yes," in Rom 2:6-7. Please give us the Lutheran interpretation of Rom 2:6-7?
Pablo, the importance of combating these heresies is that those who believe the Protestant heresy will not be believing in the one Truth established by Christ. To believe anything else goes against Christ's Word. Also, not understanding that works through faith saves, some will have the faith that doesn't save as the bible says. It is this heresy that can trap many to this false faith.
The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved in the end by the grace of God. However, we are not God's robots. He gives us free will to choose good or evil. To be saved one must seek to have faith and do the will of the Father. If we choose through our own free will to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ then by His grace we attain faith. This faith will save us.
@lchiddle Re: CrimsomCatholics gives the impression that faith and work are two different entities that are added together to determine ones salvation.
I am not really sure how that is different from "You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did".
The RCC teaches that faith and works (ACTIONS) are required for salvation and not faith alone.
This goes back to free will. Do we have the free will to reject Christ?
Good points, the lord will not ask us if we aree catholic or Protestant but what will he ask?
@lchiddle Re: But what works are you talking about?
I noticed you asked this question in several of CrimsomCatholics videos. I think he gave a partial answer to this question already by presenting Ezek 18:5-9, 19-24 which talks about some works. I am sure there are plenty more passages that one can reference.
My question is what kind of answer to your question might you be seeking?
@cburton103 approval of Abraham. When Abraham started down with the knife, that action (work) wasn't to be justified before God. It was to be seen by Issac. It was to set a precedent and pattern of faith for Issac. As justification takes place in the sight of God, it is by faith, for he sees that the faith is genuine, and that it will produce good works.
blockhead0834, please explain from your Protestant interpretation the following biblical verse from James:
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
Also, Abraham was indeed justified by faith....Why? Because he showed his faith by attempting to kill his son....a WORK. Faith and works!
well, I don't try to explain those verses away...we as Christians have to deal with those verses that are part of scripture. Who are the good works for? God sees your heart, He already knows your motives and intentions, He already knows whether you will do something or not. That external expression of faith (works) is not to be justified before God, but before men. Galations 3:16 Abraham serves as an example. He believed God, and that faith was regarded by God to be his continued...
True Faith leads to works
@pixelspillover I agree with what you said except for a few exceptions. To me, it always seems like the "faith alone" camp simply tries to explain away any verses such as James 2, Romans 2, etc so that they don't mean what they say. Even though James 2:24 says, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only", somehow it seems that many would still say that good works (as an expression of faith in Christ) do not justify us by grace. What are your thoughts?
@CrimsonCatholic I love how these discussions manage to stay in St. Paul and no reference to the words of what is His name. . .oh, yeah, Jesus Christ in the Gospels.
The problem with St. Paul I presume to say is: he did not present his teachings as cross references to the Gospels but as if they did not exist.
@pixelspillover Rather, we can see how in James 2:21 we are told that Abraham was justified by his works (and other places we are told that Abraham was justified by his faith). Doesn't it seem like saying that we are justified by faith alone requires people to read the Bible rather selectively? I am honestly trying to understand, so please let me know if I'm missing something. God bless.
Agreed again...
@decapodproductions If everything is completely and totally up to God, and we have nothing at all to do with whether we are saved or not, then why aren't all people saved? Do you think that God doesn't want to save some people, and so He only works through those that He has chosen for salvation?
@shanana000 I think you didn't read verse 5 to 8 did you?
Verses 6-8 say: (6)"Who(GOD) will repay everyone according to his WORKS: (7)ETERNAL LIFE to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through PERSEVERANCE IN GOOD WORKS, (8)but WRATH and FURY to those who SELFISHLY DISOBEY the Truth and OBEY Wickedness"
I Don't think it is talkin about another judgement among the chosen ones.
It is talkin about THE FINAL JUDGEMENT though
Now does WORKS have an important play on Salvation?
@benabaxter Sorry, I still don't get your point vis-a-vis the question that was posed in the video.
@RPenta How can you claim that Paul and Jesus disagreed on this point? Jesus himself converted Paul on the road to Damascus. Check out Matthew 19:16 and following for Jesus's thoughts on the role of works in the process of salvation. God bless.
1 of 2
For he will repay according to each one’s deeds: to those who by patiently doing good SEEK for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. Romans 2:6-7
Immortality is received by those who SEEK for glory and honor by patiently doing good. Those who so SEEK receive immortality. The passage does't say immortality is received BECAUSE of SEEKING or WORKS.
Cont'd...
Different protestants have different views. To a Lutheran the answer is a simple no. Only faith can save us. However, we can not answer all questions, but I have no theological training so I could not tell anyone for sure about people before christ.
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However, Titus 3:5 EXPLICITLY states that we are NOT SAVED BECAUSE OF WORKS.
“he saved us, Not because of any works of righteousness that we have done”
Ephesians 2:8-9 EXPLICITLY states that we are saved by grace, through faith.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God- NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS”.
Doing good is the proof of saving faith. So, those who do good will be saved, since works are proof of saving faith.
@pixelspillover I'm trying my best to understand how your understanding fits with James 2. Are you saying that works never justify a person, but only faith? I just don't see how this fits with James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only". Your view seems to directly contradict this. Please help me see if this is not correct.
Also, I'm not sure how Galatians 3:16 fits in, nor your example of Abraham being saved by faith alone. (continued)
@tario26 Who do you think the "Who" of Rom 2:6 (KJV) is referring to? Look back to Rom 2:5 - it is God Himself. So, whether the translation says "Who" or "He," God is being referred to. Now, given that, please translate Rom 2:6-7 for us? And, where did anyone imply that you can "earn" your salvation? I'm just taking Scripture for what it says, "[God] will render to every man according to his faith?" Unh, unh...according to his "works!" Please explain why you disagree with Paul?
@decapodproductions So, why does 1 Tim 2:4 say that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Are you saying that Jesus is NOT the Savior of all men?
@decapodproductions You decide what the word "all" means based on your preconceived notions. In other words, you are making the Bible fit your beliefs, rather than making your beliefs fit the Bible. "All" in 1 Tim 2 means "all" and we know this from the context - the previous verses were talking about "all," not just, "the saved." Your interpretation would have "all" meaning "all men" in one verse and then meaning "the saved" in the next verse. What gives you the right to decide such things?
Is anyone out there really myopic,prideful or resentful enough to claim that God will reject us based on whether or not it was works or grace alone that saved us? I think it grace alone since what was the agony inflicted through cross really worth if it is not completed and must be added to by our efforts rather than our hearts chosen fidelity. But Catholics are certainly not going to hell for believing that God needs works in addition. We are all brothers in Christ so enough with the vitriol.
I, by your interpretation, will no doubt be damned. Because I do not obey the truth, and I am self-seeking and I obey unrighteousness. A lot. I am not a good person. Fortunately, my salvation is not dependent on me. Because while I was still a sinner, Christ died for me. And if I were righteous, Christ did not die for me because "one would scarcely die for a righteous person." This is a hypothetical statement judging from 3:20, "through the law comes knowledge of sin." Good luck being perfect...
I agree with tario26! Perfect answer!
@progressfabbrian Judged by your works but not saved by your works? Really?! Where does the Bible say that? In Rom 2:6-7, it says you will receive eternal life by doing good works. What do you make of that? The thief on the cross: It's not a work to lift yourself up on the nail running through your feet, causing yourself excruciating pain, in order to take a breath so that you can defend Jesus? If he had remained quiet, would he have been saved by his faith alone?
@lsavalla Catholics believe in salvation through faith. Catholics do not believe in salvation through faith alone. This is the distinction missing in many Protestants' minds as they read passages such as Romans 3 and 4 and Ephesians 2. We take all of these verses in conjunction with the context of the rest of the Bible and see that, yes, we are saved by faith, but we are saved by our works that complete that faith as well (James 2:14-26). God bless.
@decapodproductions Who are you to judge who is saved and who is not saved? Does Matthew 7 not say, "Judge not lest ye be judged?" And, in 1 Cor 4, Paul says that he doesn't even judge himself as being acquitted, but I guess you would have judged him, eh? Does Paul not say to leave judgment to the Lord? How dare you place yourself as God over those you deem unsaved. And, why pray for one another if our prayer does nothing? If the saved are saved and the damned are damned - no matter what?!
@decapodproductions Not answering my questions: Why does the Word of God say that God "desires all men to be saved," yet you say "God never planned to save every one?" Who should I believe, you, or the Bible? Or, is God schizophrenic? If everything was done before the foundation of the world, then why does Phil 2:12-13 tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? Why bother commenting here if nothing we do matters? Is it out of conceit? Remember, 2nd warning.
@HOFFABRANDO1 So what exactly is ur question?
@progressfabbrian No, that's not what I'm saying...please don't put your words in my mouth. Why don't you answer my questions? Are you capable of answering my questions? I repeat, Rom 2:6-7 says you will receive eternal life by doing good works...if you think I'm making it up, why don't you actually read the Bible? Now, again, what does Rom 2:6-7 mean in your world? Question: Do the branches of the vine which is Christ have to produce good fruit to remain attached to the vine? Yes or no?!
@decapodproductions Why is it you get to decide that the word "all" only refers to the elect?! Where does the Bible say that? You do go by the Bible don't you? So, please give me book, chapter, and verse that says the word "all" only refers to the elect? And, in Romans 3:23, when it says, "Since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," I guess that means only the elect have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, right?!
@CrimsonCatholic
The answer to your question is nope. However good deeds comes with using Jesus as a role model. Also the ten commandments already ask for good attitude.
Then, Romans Ch 3 goes on to explain how we are all alike under sin. "No one is righteous, no not one." Romans 3:23 For everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous."
It is by Jesus, we are declared righteous and fit for heaven. How is this done? Keep reading the quote "People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life..."
Not works, faith. Ch 4--> Abraham's faith.
@cburton103 yeah I saw the video, hahahahaha, I understand the point of the video, I was just answering the question made up on top. No amount of works will gain a man eternal life, it's by faith. I know that's not what you believe, but who is the verse speaking to? what group of people? and that phrase "according to their deeds" is used throughout scripture and it denotes the complete justness of judgement of God. continued....
@decapodproductions Furthermore, you claim that in 1 Tim 2:4 when it says that God wants all men to be saved that the word "all" is referring to the elect; well, does the word "all" in 1 Tim 2:1 refer only to the elect? God is telling us to pray only for the elect? Why? The elect don't really need prayers, do they? Afterall, they're the elect for cryin' out loud! And, 1 Tim 2:2 means that only the elect are in high positions...never the damned? Sir, your exegesis is a pile of Martin Luther.
@CrimsonCatholic All Christians depend on the righteousness of Christ as their own imputed righteousness,no one can have any works good enough to merit salvation,our best works are filthy rags before the Lord.
Based on the bible, no, you can't. If you look at the entire passage to understand the context of these verses you will see that he is talking about people judging other people and God's judgement, not salvation.
@abukid I see that you are going through these videos one by one, yet you have failed to answer a single question. "Questions Protestants Can't Answer" was made specifically for people like you. Now, care to take a shot at actually answering the question?
you forgot honor and glory , obviously God is speaking of honor and glory in heaven not on earth , therefore works serve only for our position in Heaven, it-s a hierarchy statement for those who have already the Faith !
CrimsonCatholic No if you don't have faith and faith in Xrist the son of God ! A includes B but B does not includes A . Muslims for example have their faith , they seek just like us honor, glory and immortality in heaven , nevertheless, among good works is the killing of the infidels . question : what is their faith ? Got the picture ? You assume faith is a good thing , God assumes it might be of the devil , therefore doing "good works" without the Xtian Faith is of the Devil and I am not talking about Atheists who don't have faith and neither look for immortality at all !
delicheres No one, when thinking deeply, can believe faith alone.
Isn't accepting Jesus as "your personal Lord and Savoir" a work? Yes, it is.
So you have no choice but to admit you are saved by a work, this is a fact.
And the Bible is very clear that we are NOT always saved, or can never lose our salvation, this is a lie.
It's funny how you profess to believe in the Bible, yet most of what you profess is not in the Bible!
Most of what Catholicism teaches is found in the Bible, and whatever is not clearly mentioned, the Bible does not contradict. This is because the Bible is Catholic, it's ours! not yours, you are a thief when you claim it's yours.
So since I clarified that we have to DO something, it's only now a matter of degrees.
Rhett Quigley Faith alone Saves , Works are your treasures in Heaven but all depend on Faith and faith in Xrist alone ! works might lead you to Heaven under the condition they reflect the image of Xrist otherwise they are pure vanity !
CrimsonCatholic Isa 64:6 .... and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ...
Emphasizing the impossibility of good works without faith Paul said :
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
And most important , To whom Paul is Talking in Roman ? what is the context ? we have the answer in the beginning :
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
He is talking TO the Faithfuls not to the pagans much less to the Atheists nor the Muslims , Therefore seeking glory, honor and immortality are of the faithful in Xrist , they are their treasures in Heaven because they acknowledged their works are filthy rags without the help of the holy spirit, if it weren't so what would be the need for a Saviour ? None .
delicheres Quote from catholic.com
"Question
A Fundamentalist I know has been bashing my Catholic faith by quoting Isaiah 64:6, where the Bible says, "our acts of righteousness are as filthy rags." He says this proves humans have no good works before God. What should I say in return?
Answer
He misunderstands the verse he is quoting. It does not say that all acts of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, but that those being rendered to him in Isaiah's day were.
In context the passage says:
Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides you, who acts on behalf of those who wait for him. You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved? All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Your sacred cities have become a desert; even Zion is a desert, Jerusalem a desolation. Our holy and glorious Temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins. (Is 64:4-6, 10-11, NIV)
This pertains to a particular historical situation, not to a general condition. The passage appeals to a time when Israelites once had a right relationship with God, when God helped them against their enemies because they waited on him, gladly did right, and remembered his ways.
When they sin against him and did not repent and return to their former state, he abandoned them to the will of their enemies, so that even Jerusalem and its Temple were destroyed. (Isaiah speaks of this prophetically, before it happened.)
It was during that period of continued sin, leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 B.C., that they had "become like one who is unclean"--they hadn't always been like that. In this state, even the nation's acts of righteousness appeared like filthy rags to God, so he wouldn't help them: "When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right!" (Is 1:15-17).
Protestants are often confused about the role Catholics believe good works play in salvation, so you should clear this up for the Fundamentalist you know. You should explain to him that we do not perform good works in order to enter a state of justification. The Council of Trent stated that "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification" (Decree on Justification 8).
In fact, it is impossible for an unjustified person to do supernaturally good works, since these are based on the virtue of charity (supernatural love), which an unjustified person does not have. Good works therefore flow from our reception of justification; they do not cause us to enter a state of justification. Good works increase the righteousness we are given at justification and please God, who promises to give us supernatural rewards on the last day, including the gift of eternal life (Rom 2:6-7, Gal 6:6-10)."
Eternal life is not and cannot be a reward. Every Evangelical knows this from Scripture. Catholics can merit an increase of grace - but not grace itself, and only by virtue of being living members of the Body of Christ, *which is itself a grace*. Grace is impossible to deserve - it can come only as a gift, never as a reward, because man cannot possibly have any rights against God. Salvation is, necessarily, wholly of grace and not by works, because to do works is itself a grace. The entirety of salvation, all our good works in Christ included, is grace after grace after grace, from beginning to end. Salvation is not and cannot be by works, in any way. However humiliating to our own "self-respect" that may be. God grants us salvation because He is Good, and because we are not good - not because we are good and deserve salvation. We do not, and we can't. And I'm not a Protestant of any kind, but a Catholic.
@kidasterorig111 You're right, it's nope.
But good deeds come as a result of being justified by faith. If you look to the law for good works, you look in the wrong place (Romans 3:20). Anything good is only found in Christ. After all, "there is only one who is good" (Matthew 19:17).
read the whole book of Romans. why didn't Jews receive eternal life? because they tried to gain it by following the Law. Abraham obtained it by faith. don't just take one verse. read the whole book. Paul was very systematic in the book of Romans so you couldn't miss the message
@cburton103
shall receive the reward of the inheritance, which is a reward of grace, and not of debt. In other words, God will render to evil men according to the true desert of their evil deeds; and of his own free grace will render to good men, whom he has made so by his grace, what is suitable and agreeable to those good works, which, by the assistance of his grace, they have been enabled to perform.
@cburton103
God will be the Judge, every man in particular will be judged; and will proceed according to their works; for God will render to wicked men according to the demerit of their sins, the just recompense of reward, eternal damnation; and to good men eternal life, not according to the merit of their good works, which have none in them, but according to the nature of them; such who believe in Christ, and perform good works from a principle of grace, continued...
Once again, a Protestant who fails to explain the following biblical references: Blockhead0834....Please explain them.
1) "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works?"
2) "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
3) "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
4) "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
I would really like to see catholics and protestants lay down their arms. An earnest catholic and an earnest protestant will both be in heaven, since both proclaim Christ as their A1. and at that point both will laugh at their former bickering. Not to say that this is not important to discuss, but in so far as it keeps Christians at arms length it is pernicious and wrong.
@decapodproductions God never planned to save everyone? 1 Tim 2:4, God 'desires all men to be saved." God desires it, but you say it just ain't so. If we have nothing to do whether we become saved or not, then why are you bothering posting to this video? Your words can affect no one's salvation, right? Why waste your time, and ours?! You, of course, are one of those saved, though, right? If you keep posting, without responding to questions asked of you, you will be cut off...1st warning.
God is a God who rewards. Rewards are earned. The bible says we receive our salvation by grace. You can't have it both ways. You have to pick one or the other.
For anyone who is interested in the true promise of salvation through faith, read the entire chapter of Romans 4, it will clear up the confusion my Catholic friend seems to have the scriptures.
Peace to you all!
demetrixxxable... It is clear that you don't understand the teachings of the Catholic Church or you would not suggest that Catholics believe that we "make it to HIS kingdom on our own". Catholics believe as the Bible teaches...we are saved by grace through faith; we are saved according to our works....but always through and by the grace of God. One cannot reason with someone who won't at least acknowledge the teaching of his opponent. You stop the debate process by doing this.
No, you can't be saved by well doing, otherwise the moral athiest would wind up in heaven also and so on and son on
CrimsonCatholic: Your synergism is obvious. The real question for you is: Is salvation of man or all of God? Your man center ideology is common in the Roman Church as well in many Protestant Churches. You add nothing new to the debate, just the same old questions that have been answered by the reformers down through Church History. From Augustine to Luther, Sproul, White, Piper and many more prove what Catholicism really is. The truth is, man cannot be saved by his/her good works.(Eph.2:8-9). In saying that, Scripture tell us that if one is truly saved, he/she will do good works. (Ja.2:17). In other words, faith produces good works. Jesus talks about the many who profess their good works. (Mt.7:21-23). Those who are saved are saved because of what Christ did for them.(Ro.8:28-33). Those who rely on good works as a means of salvation are depending on what they do and believe that if they are good enough God will except them. Actually if one believes that he must do good works for his salvation then he is falling from grace (Gal.5:4).
Augustine? you mean the most Catholic Church Father ever?
we do need good works for our salvation, but salvation isn't done by works alone, its done by faith and works
***** We do good works because we are saved. Good works never saved anyone!
No one, when thinking deeply, can believe faith alone.
Isn't accepting Jesus as "your personal Lord and Savoir" a work? Yes, it is.
So you have no choice but to admit you are saved by a work, this is a fact.
And the Bible is very clear that we are NOT always saved, or can never lose our salvation, this is a lie.
It's funny how you profess to believe in the Bible, yet most of what you profess is not in the Bible!
Most of what Catholicism teaches is found in the Bible, and whatever is not clearly mentioned, the Bible does not contradict. This is because the Bible is Catholic, it's ours! not yours, you are a thief when you claim it's yours.
So since I clarified that we have to DO something, it's only now a matter of degrees.
I understand your hypothesis, it is invalid. The Apostle Paul was very clear, For by grace you have been saved through faith; and " not of yourselves", it is the "gift" of God; not as a result of works," that no one should boast. (Eph.2:8-9). Because by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin... For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. (Ro.3:20, 28). Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through " faith" in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, " and not by the works of the law; since by works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Galatians.2:16). You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the law; you are falling from grace. (Galatians.5:4).
James never contradicted Paul. What James is simply saying is if a man has faith in Christ it will be seen by his works. If one does not produce good works then he has not been saved by faith alone. His salvation then must be questioned.