I've had 32 years of use out of my 1978 Triumph Bonneville 750, and I don't care what the retail value is, because I don't intend to sell it. I also bought a cheap1980 Suzuki GS550 3 years ago to use through the winter. I bought both of them to use, not as investments, and would never spend the inflated prices of some of the rarer bikes. Here in the UK, the bike scene in general is shrinking as my generation dies off or gives up their bikes, with far fewer new bikers to replace us. At 70, I still use the bikes as my daily transport, and will carry on as long as I'm capable.
Very true words. I’m a 74 year old Brit who has owned and ridden all the classic British bikes from the early 50’s. My Norton Dominator had the best handling, brakes and reliability. The Gold Star was fun, the Vincent Rapide was a very nice tourer with some great design features but rubbish handling. Triumphs very light and quick, good looking but the vibration was awful. Velocette had good brakes and handling but a nightmare to live with. BSA and Matchless twins were OK. Most British bikes bikes leaked oil, bad lighting and always needed roadside adjustments! I went Italian in 1975 which is where the British bikes should have gone as well.
Modern bikes with full electronics and fuel injection etc. will be ( when major issues arise ) worthless because of parts availability/cost and/or the skill sets needed by the average rider to repair them.The automotive industry likewise.From a hobby point of view, most of the "common old bikes" still have reasonable parts supply & some are better than 30 years ago due to the supply and demand criteria.
@@erik_dk842 I don't think ECU are interchangeable? One of my motorcycles is a 2015 Can-Am Spyder and people are already concerned about parts availability. Using unobtainable parts and providing them for the legally mandated minimum time is a way to maximize profits.
Very good points. I think it is also, when people reach mid age and can invest in vehicles they want those cars and bikes of their youth that were out of their price range.
My father passed a few years ago and left me 18 immaculately restored Cushmans. 30 years ago we went to meets with 5000 to 6000 Cushmans. Most people owned more than 5 bikes. Prices actually were crazy high. I still have them, and luckily have a good place to keep them. I also ride them some. They are currently selling now for 30% to 40% of what they were. I do get a lot of questions about them. Your analysis is spot on.
The reason I made this video is because the crash of these bikes really started during a time when the economy was good. But obviously it’s effecting it big time now, which i mentioned for half the video.
The market is always changing, every decade is different from the last, it may go up, then go down and will always be a market. If anything it’s a win/win for me as I love British Vintage Motorcycles! While it’s low I’ll buy more and I’m 42
I agree with this video. I'm now 66 years old and grew up with what are now vintage Japanese bikes as well as still owning and riding 80's,90's Y2K's etc. Seeing the BYT prices falling by early 2024 I purchased a very nice original 1973 Honda CB350 four that is in excellent cosmetic & running order purely for sentimental reasons. It's asking price had dropped AU$3,000 to AU$5,500.00 or (US$3,400.00). It's not 100% concourse however it's a decent 8.5/10 and that's without NOS sump, gauges, headlight bucket, surround and lamp and alternator & points covers. Fit these and it becomes a 9/10. But I'm in no hurry as the existing "original" items are still a nice 6/10. However would I buy a CB750 in similar condition as my 350 four? No way! In Australia 90% are USA imports and as of 2024 are still asking AU$20,000.00 or (US$12,500.00)!!!!!???? The problem is that Honda made 550,000 of these but only 70,000 of the 350 fours. Subscribed from Australia! Have a safe and happy Christmas.
Another factor are modern retro bikes with classic Brit styling. Why ride a troublesome antique when you can have a modern machine with similar good looks?
Good video with valid points. I own and maintain three bikes at the moment, a 76 Bonneville, a modern Speed Twin and a 97 Yamaha XT600. I've owned a few classic Triumphs in the past, had a break for quite some years and picked up the Bonneville a couple of years ago. The fun for me with that bike is doing the work, getting it running well, top end rebuild and everything else that goes with it. It's a hobby, I love working on it and as I do not rely on it as daily transport that takes the pressure off. I genrally work on it over winter months. It's a blast to ride, it sounds and smells great, quicke enough for the roads I ride (european Alps where I live) and I have no problems riding all day over high mountian passes. I've met younger people than myself who also ride and work on these bikes, guys in their twenties for example. The current trend of modern retros has piqued a new generations interest. Maybe they'll carry the torch in the future..? As for prices, where i live in central Europe, they're insane, waaaay overpriced. This will put off a lot of people thinking about getting a classic. You have to have cash, patience and the willingness to learn and get your hands dirty if you realistically wanna keep one on the road. And you'll need a backup bike also ;-) Thanks for your insights!
With shrinking sales you will also get shrinking spares. I have a '79 T140, my late brother's. At the moment there are lots of newly replicated parts. As the demand for those bikes falls so will the demand for those parts, and they will become very hard to get and expensive. This will lead to those old bikes being broken for spares and lost forever
Thanks Nav. I did find your take a little contradictory but you’re not wrong on a few points. Firstly, anyone who brings up auctions like Mecum into this debate are usually people who are desperately trying to find or hold onto some optimism regarding the classic bike market. The odd high price for a Kawasaki at Mecum and others are an anomaly.. period. Generally and historically, yes the economy has a huge amount to do with peaks and troughs in terms of value of collectables. But the fact is the vast vast majority of people that collect motorcycles are aging and dying. Yes you alluded to this but go on to say that your generation and one above could buy these bike in the future.. I do hope you’re right but I disagree. The USA maybe different but places like the UK, Australia and New Zealand, there is almost no one under the age of 55 remotely interested in these bikes, and actually most are 70+. I’m one of the younger collectors, so dearly hope I’m wrong but don’t think I will be.
DG76er - I agree, see my reply to Nav. We very well may be at another turning point in history in relation to societal trends. I am beginning to think I know how the hold outs who had much invested in the horse and wagon industry felt circa 1910 - 1920.
See the interest will come out once the bikes come out of hiding. It won’t be for the prices in the past like I mentioned but it will start a new generation’s interest, smaller than before probably. But it’s a cycle that perhaps my generation won’t see the rise but these are machines of history and that can always be appreciated In the USA it does seem like there’s many other like myself who want these machines. Mainly Japanese bikes not as much British. But the enthusiasm will grow I think. If not I’ll buy more
Z9s and z1000s are still pretty popular here in Australia, but prices make it hard to get one at a sensible price.... whether the 50th anniversary has anything to do with that or not, idk.
We’re at the point where people realise that purchasing a vintage bike is a money pit, a time pit and on the days that it works, quite expensive for what it is in terms of performance and comfort. For those that got used to Honda and Yamaha levels of reliability…. Don’t even think about it. The British motorcycle industry is no longer the dominant force it was in the 50s and 60s for very good reasons.
Is this the voice of my late father? Is that you, dad? I hope that wasn't in bad taste. But you're dead right. The spare parts are no longer off the shelf, like they were, just, 30 years ago. And there's no fixing Lucas. It is what it is. But on top of it all, if you put all the time and money into these bikes, no kid wants them. Old men do. And every day, for some reason, they want them less and less. We're past the top of the market. If we're not, oh well.
That goes for some of the older generation. Like I said my generation doesn’t even know about these bikes or what they are. Also they really aren’t all that bad. Definitely not a Honda but if I go to any of my bsa right now 3 kicks and they will fire.
@@davidbrayshaw3529I’ll take that as a complement .😀 Having said all that… there’s some lovely Hondas out there that are worth investigating,, Pan European 1100s, GB500s etc… and the Kawasaki KE 500 seems to have quite a bit of support.
This is so true in regards to bikes in Australia. A kwaka 900 over here are being advertised for ridiculous prices, way over the top. I put it down to maybe the first models reaching their 50th anniversary, and also the movies Stone and Mad Max(original) helping them to hold prices up. But in reality, even a bloke my age (62) baulk at paying so much for a bike that age, when tbh, money is bloody tight nowadays. I'd love a z9, but I'm not going to fork over an insane amount of money to get one.
Hello Nav. Really enjoy your insight on the subject. I feel your right over the target. Ebs and flows in the market are historically common. I see a lot of bikes, and vintage cars for sale right now that aren’t selling because of owners that aren’t realistic of the current situation. I’ve learned not too overpay and be patient if looking for a certain make or model. The right bike and price will come along. Thanks for your videos and God Bless you and your family this Christmas!
I've never had anyone recognise my stock 83 FXDG .. Most recognise my 81 Sturgis, but the much rarer FXDG... mine is the only surviving one in my country of Switzerland.
I've seen most of the rare bikes at one time or another at the Toronto motorcycle Show (the one at the International Centre in January). Broughs, Vincents, Triumphs, BSAs, Nortons, Vellocette, AJS, Gilera, etc. To me these bikes are mostly antiques. Something like a first gen GPz that I lusted after when I was in high school is more my speed. I bought a 2000 ZRX1100 in red, silver and black when it was new.
Most of the time it's not worth doing the work. It would be double what the bike would go for when finished. One already fully restored isn't a huge amount more.
Why would you want to do the work, these days? There are no longer parts on the shelf. There's no longer the guy around the corner who knows how to do this, that and the other thing and has a friend with a machine that can do "X". It's a nightmare, these days, getting a drum brake on a spoked wheel bike machined.
For a Norton Commando, parts are available. They are not inexpensive anymore but available they are. New ones are being made, and I mean the vintage ones, not the "in name only" style.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 For the Triumph T140, probably the most common British bike surviving from before the 90s, parts are still being manufactured and you can buy virtually everything off the shelf, from numerous specialist parts stockists. That was one of the reasons I chose mine 32 years ago, and it still applies.
The 'vintage market' has been hostage to cheque book investors. They bought up everything that could be made shiny. The prices demanded, and paid, for bikes which were ordinary at best and often a pos, were stupid. Take a Norton ES2, in 500cc form it was a slow ohv long stroke single, pushed out under several badges. It was never a big seller, one of those bikes that people bought because there was little else. The 350cc version was an even greater slug. Those bloody things were snapped up by 'collectors'. Then 'restored' to a level that if they had left the factory they might actually have been a half decent bike. The engines performed better than new, the paint was better, the chrome deeper. Like many restored bikes they had components in them that were far better than new. The prices asked for them, rising as fast as the new investor could write a cheque. The infestation of the Pebble Beach polish and trailer set is long overdue for a reality check. Motorcyclists will buy an old bike because they want to ride them. Not spend hours polishing them with extract of some rare rainforest plant. Then boast how much their investment has appreciated.
In my recollection, English machines, even as new back in the day never were "cheap". If you wanted one, new or used you had to pay up. So how do you figure todays market prices are unjust? There never has been a "free lunch".
I don't pay great attention to collector bike prices. I do have an MK III Roadster I bought in the 70s, and a MK II my brorher bought in the 70s. At the time, they were fast, both modified and the MK III lightened up. They were used as motorcycles al the time. For a period, I commuted over 500 miles a week on the MK III. That was a maintainance nightmare. Like a second job. I've got them up and running with fresh tires now, but they will never be used as tourers again. They are not worth much because they are not stock enough. They are better than stock but collectors want other. H2 is an interesting phenomenon. 20 mpg and a short life span. Not a realistically useful machine. The last H2s were slower than a Commando stock but got better mileage. When I was 16 or so, my former scoutmaster was crazy enough to let me try his brand new early model. I thought it was great.
Good vid... why are you into Brit bikes? I'm 59 and have always been into Brit bikes even though I was not really of that generation (RD 250LC was the Goldie of my time!) For me it was probably because of liking heavy metal music.. Here in the UK oldies who have Brit bikes own 6 or 10 of them! When they ( or their reli's) sell up it's like a mini flood of the market - soon it will be Tsunami. Most young people into bikes not only have no connection to these brands they have no knowledge of the 'tech' involved - mags, carbs, dynamo's, drum brakes and points - and why should they? I've seen this before - in the late 70's early 80's Brit stuff was worthless - knowledgable people used it as cheap transport, then came the 'classic' movement. Some stuff got collectable but make no mistake whilst a Vincent was being restored a Bantam was being scrapped. Then every thing old suddenly got collectable and it stopped being transport - the same will happen again with each tier of desirable getting smaller and 'rarer' but with less market (people) There are millions of Brit bikes world wide, enough to satisfy any future market many times over .... forget the money -- if you like these bikes you're in for a treat when they all become available and this time round they're restored and ready to go not shagged out wrecks! I paid £300 for my BSA Super Rocket when I was 19 and intend to keep it till its worth that again!
I don’t think it will ever be worth that again. But the reason I’m into them is my father has always had them. More so they are a part of motorcycling history and they have a distinct personality that non of the other bikes offer. Which is what is lost when they are parked hidden.
@@navscyclesThen you weren't around riding in the 70's when we just laughed at these decrepit poorly made, unreliable, gutless pieces of British rubbish.... Yes. All of them. BSA, Triumph, Norton etc were total garbage compared to what Japan were churning out back then........
Old bikes have been overpriced for to long, which is a great pity because young riders are missing out on the fun and frustrations of keeping one on the road. The horders have destroyed the market and now they are getting to old and dying out. The market in the UK is very volatile because the government is coming down on every section of motorists, meaning if a bike is 40 years old there is no tax or yearly inspections so even Honda 125 s are £1000+ if its old enough to qualify. If its older than 10 years then it probably won't be euro 5/6 therfore you will be punished by going into a restricted zone in a big city so bikes like yamaha fj1200 and suzuki 1200 bandit can be had for the same price of the 40 year old 125 so which is madness. The market hear I the UK is all over the place due to these reasons. There is still a company that buys bikes in the USA and ships them back hear because they are old....... Odd world at the moment 🇬🇧🇺🇲👍
I've always wondered if that guy on the Vincent in bathing trunks on the Bonneville Salt Flats managed to stop without road rash. Everybody that has ridden a motorcycle has seen that picture. Most have been tempted to replicate it. Yoiks
Demographics has a lot to do with it, and also the fact that for too long folks had become used to the expectation that an old bike would make money, not lose it. That idea held for a good few years (the last 30 or so) but not any longer. Now, perhaps, the market for old brit bikes is more realistically priced, and if viewed differently, is a good and affordable time to buy. Put in short terms, most pre '60 bikes are selling at prices far closer to what they are realistically worth. The market is favouring those with the interest/desire to ride and learn about old bikes. The prices may be viewed as "crashing " but only if you view the machines as "investments". They are not, and realistically, never were. Recent years have been somewhat of a fiscal "bubble" and we have all become used to/expectant of a positive upward outcome. Not any longer....
It is also happening with the collector car community. The young aren't interested in anything that doesn't have a touch screen accessing a "virtual" environment. ie. no yucky oily work needed.
That’s not necessarily true. It’s actually the opposite for most enthusiasts. We want simpler cars. That’s why a lot of 90s cars have gone up in value so much and why new sports cars dont sell.
@@navscycles I am in Australia, so conditions here may be different to yours. The old bike/old car market is basically static, nothing much selling regardless of price, where once people would negotiate, now ads just don't get any response. The demand just isn't there. Cost of living has gone very high thanks to green power pushing up electricity prices hugely. Food and housing are constantly going up. People just don't have the money to spend on "wants", so they have prioritised "necessities".
Cost of living here in the us has also gone up. But I still disagree cars of the 90s are seen to the community as THE cars. Now cars of the 60 and 70s I can see them sitting. That’s the same here as they don’t have buyers. And that’s mainly because those muscle cars were destroyed by the generation who owned them and now are expensive and we don’t or can’t pay for them. Otherwise again my generation would be all over classic muscle cars.
I think those are a completely separate market like the Italian bikes. Those owners are very different and are willing to pay for the bikes. However with the economy they have come down and the bikes that skyrocket have seen a lot of decline.
royal enfield bullet early 1980 still going strong basically all the cashed up fo;ks who had a brit bike in their yoof are fading away and the prices are droppin to what they SHOULD be
Brit bikes are falling because the skills to run them , maintain them and ride them is disappearing as the people who desired them are giving up bikes ,passing away of just have found the riding of them too much also available money ,over inflated prices are out of reach , One thing that pushed prices up os it became fashionable to own one and the trend moved from British to 70s superbikes then on to two strokes now its the GSXRs and Fireblades ,
Each sale of a modern retro is a vintage bike sale less or, very near thereabouts. Keeping a vintage bike functioning- assuming it‘s being ridden requires the know-how and facilities. Other than that it’s paying someone else to do the work, if they know how which is also diminishing.
The classic bike market is being killed by demographics. There is not the interest in bikes in the younger generations as they have less connection with motorcycles. A lot of these old bikes will be taken to the grave.... New retro bikes are also having an impact. I learnt to ride on a 70's CB250. Just traded my Goldwing on a GB350; all of the nostalgia none of the dramas. There is no real point in owning a bike and never riding it. Sure a CB750 is a landmark machine but now way too heavy and problematic for us older guys who are the only people interested in them. You can't take it with you and if you can't ride it, why bother? Downsize, buy something reliable, a bit safer and have fun on the road rather than only in the shed.......
82 was the last year in which they made less because slow sales. Total sales were over 35k and the more desirable ones are the earlier bikes. And that’s coming from someone who has a 82 Cbx
I would say in essence you appraisal is very realistic and the demographics are 50+ is the market whether it be "always wanted one" or a so called "investment" and probably now has the indulgence money! I think your reference to the "economy" pressuring prices is most relevant that said does a "cheap commute" negate that to some degree? I would not buy a true "vintage bike" I did that in the 50's & 60's and a modern "vintage bike" knocks the socks off most of the offerings in my opinion. I am on the verge of ordering a Triumph 400 speed as the just about everything overall is better, build and ergonomics wise. That said I would "re-buy" my old 650 BSA Gold Flash in a heart beat even though it was a shed!
all these machines became worth less than the machines that replaced them in thier era , a lot of british stuff wasnt remotely desirable in its time , and even now with more shine than they had originally not all of them are classics , a lot went out of production cos they didnt compare (were rubbish)rose tinted welding masks
I've had 32 years of use out of my 1978 Triumph Bonneville 750, and I don't care what the retail value is, because I don't intend to sell it. I also bought a cheap1980 Suzuki GS550 3 years ago to use through the winter. I bought both of them to use, not as investments, and would never spend the inflated prices of some of the rarer bikes. Here in the UK, the bike scene in general is shrinking as my generation dies off or gives up their bikes, with far fewer new bikers to replace us. At 70, I still use the bikes as my daily transport, and will carry on as long as I'm capable.
Very true words. I’m a 74 year old Brit who has owned and ridden all the classic British bikes from the early 50’s. My Norton Dominator had the best handling, brakes and reliability. The Gold Star was fun, the Vincent Rapide was a very nice tourer with some great design features but rubbish handling. Triumphs very light and quick, good looking but the vibration was awful. Velocette had good brakes and handling but a nightmare to live with. BSA and Matchless twins were OK. Most British bikes bikes leaked oil, bad lighting and always needed roadside adjustments! I went Italian in 1975 which is where the British bikes should have gone as well.
The generation that grew up messing around with cars and bikes is being replace by the generation that grew up messing around with computers.
Yep buy first generation X boxes because they will be worth more than the triumph you are riding now
Modern bikes with full electronics and fuel injection etc. will be ( when major issues arise ) worthless because of parts availability/cost and/or the skill sets needed by the average rider to repair them.The automotive industry likewise.From a hobby point of view, most of the "common old bikes" still have reasonable parts supply & some are better than 30 years ago due to the supply and demand criteria.
Or you'll just buy a replacement ECU and a set of throttlebodies.
@@erik_dk842 I don't think ECU are interchangeable? One of my motorcycles is a 2015 Can-Am Spyder and people are already concerned about parts availability. Using unobtainable parts and providing them for the legally mandated minimum time is a way to maximize profits.
@@peterholthoffman I'm not into the roadgoing snowmobile scene, only mainstream Honda's and BMW's
Very good points. I think it is also, when people reach mid age and can invest in vehicles they want those cars and bikes of their youth that were out of their price range.
My father passed a few years ago and left me 18 immaculately restored Cushmans. 30 years ago we went to meets with 5000 to 6000 Cushmans.
Most people owned more than 5 bikes. Prices actually were crazy high.
I still have them, and luckily have a good place to keep them. I also ride them some.
They are currently selling now for 30% to 40% of what they were.
I do get a lot of questions about them.
Your analysis is spot on.
The biggest economy crash is coming.
Motorcycle riders are growing older.
Do the Math
It's cars it's bikes it's houses it's businesses. It's all going to fail
The reason I made this video is because the crash of these bikes really started during a time when the economy was good. But obviously it’s effecting it big time now, which i mentioned for half the video.
@chrishart8548 not houses.
Ogri had a Vincent....
The market is always changing, every decade is different from the last, it may go up, then go down and will always be a market. If anything it’s a win/win for me as I love British Vintage Motorcycles!
While it’s low I’ll buy more and I’m 42
I agree with this video. I'm now 66 years old and grew up with what are now vintage Japanese bikes as well as still owning and riding 80's,90's Y2K's etc. Seeing the BYT prices falling by early 2024 I purchased a very nice original 1973 Honda CB350 four that is in excellent cosmetic & running order purely for sentimental reasons. It's asking price had dropped AU$3,000 to AU$5,500.00 or (US$3,400.00). It's not 100% concourse however it's a decent 8.5/10 and that's without NOS sump, gauges, headlight bucket, surround and lamp and alternator & points covers. Fit these and it becomes a 9/10. But I'm in no hurry as the existing "original" items are still a nice 6/10. However would I buy a CB750 in similar condition as my 350 four? No way! In Australia 90% are USA imports and as of 2024 are still asking AU$20,000.00 or (US$12,500.00)!!!!!???? The problem is that Honda made 550,000 of these but only 70,000 of the 350 fours. Subscribed from Australia! Have a safe and happy Christmas.
Kids aren't really interested in motorcycles and even less in classic motorcycles. When there's no buyers then the old iron become worthless.
Another factor are modern retro bikes with classic Brit styling. Why ride a troublesome antique when you can have a modern machine with similar good looks?
Good video with valid points. I own and maintain three bikes at the moment, a 76 Bonneville, a modern Speed Twin and a 97 Yamaha XT600. I've owned a few classic Triumphs in the past, had a break for quite some years and picked up the Bonneville a couple of years ago. The fun for me with that bike is doing the work, getting it running well, top end rebuild and everything else that goes with it. It's a hobby, I love working on it and as I do not rely on it as daily transport that takes the pressure off. I genrally work on it over winter months. It's a blast to ride, it sounds and smells great, quicke enough for the roads I ride (european Alps where I live) and I have no problems riding all day over high mountian passes. I've met younger people than myself who also ride and work on these bikes, guys in their twenties for example. The current trend of modern retros has piqued a new generations interest. Maybe they'll carry the torch in the future..? As for prices, where i live in central Europe, they're insane, waaaay overpriced. This will put off a lot of people thinking about getting a classic. You have to have cash, patience and the willingness to learn and get your hands dirty if you realistically wanna keep one on the road. And you'll need a backup bike also ;-) Thanks for your insights!
For me, at 47 years old, I see it as a win! I'd love to pick up a Vincent or Goldstars at a cheaper price!
It will be the less desirable bikes , very rich people will still want the Vincent black shadow and Gold Stars!
The Vincent’s will just become expensive art installations
With shrinking sales you will also get shrinking spares. I have a '79 T140, my late brother's. At the moment there are lots of newly replicated parts. As the demand for those bikes falls so will the demand for those parts, and they will become very hard to get and expensive. This will lead to those old bikes being broken for spares and lost forever
I'm from the UK and I have huge experience with old British bikes. I completely agree with all you have said. Very good honest review.
Thanks Nav. I did find your take a little contradictory but you’re not wrong on a few points. Firstly, anyone who brings up auctions like Mecum into this debate are usually people who are desperately trying to find or hold onto some optimism regarding the classic bike market. The odd high price for a Kawasaki at Mecum and others are an anomaly.. period. Generally and historically, yes the economy has a huge amount to do with peaks and troughs in terms of value of collectables. But the fact is the vast vast majority of people that collect motorcycles are aging and dying.
Yes you alluded to this but go on to say that your generation and one above could buy these bike in the future.. I do hope you’re right but I disagree. The USA maybe different but places like the UK, Australia and New Zealand, there is almost no one under the age of 55 remotely interested in these bikes, and actually most are 70+. I’m one of the younger collectors, so dearly hope I’m wrong but don’t think I will be.
DG76er - I agree, see my reply to Nav. We very well may be at another turning point in history in relation to societal trends. I am beginning to think I know how the hold outs who had much invested in the horse and wagon industry felt circa 1910 - 1920.
See the interest will come out once the bikes come out of hiding. It won’t be for the prices in the past like I mentioned but it will start a new generation’s interest, smaller than before probably. But it’s a cycle that perhaps my generation won’t see the rise but these are machines of history and that can always be appreciated
In the USA it does seem like there’s many other like myself who want these machines. Mainly Japanese bikes not as much British. But the enthusiasm will grow I think. If not I’ll buy more
Z9s and z1000s are still pretty popular here in Australia, but prices make it hard to get one at a sensible price.... whether the 50th anniversary has anything to do with that or not, idk.
We’re at the point where people realise that purchasing a vintage bike is a money pit, a time pit and on the days that it works, quite expensive for what it is in terms of performance and comfort. For those that got used to Honda and Yamaha levels of reliability…. Don’t even think about it. The British motorcycle industry is no longer the dominant force it was in the 50s and 60s for very good reasons.
Is this the voice of my late father? Is that you, dad? I hope that wasn't in bad taste. But you're dead right. The spare parts are no longer off the shelf, like they were, just, 30 years ago.
And there's no fixing Lucas. It is what it is. But on top of it all, if you put all the time and money into these bikes, no kid wants them. Old men do. And every day, for some reason, they want them less and less. We're past the top of the market. If we're not, oh well.
That goes for some of the older generation. Like I said my generation doesn’t even know about these bikes or what they are.
Also they really aren’t all that bad. Definitely not a Honda but if I go to any of my bsa right now 3 kicks and they will fire.
@@navscycles You could literally have said all that in a 45 second short. Listening to the sound of your own voice ?? ….!
@@davidbrayshaw3529I’ll take that as a complement .😀
Having said all that… there’s some lovely Hondas out there that are worth investigating,, Pan European 1100s, GB500s etc… and the Kawasaki KE 500 seems to have quite a bit of support.
Best explanation of ANY "collectors" marketplace
This is so true in regards to bikes in Australia. A kwaka 900 over here are being advertised for ridiculous prices, way over the top. I put it down to maybe the first models reaching their 50th anniversary, and also the movies Stone and Mad Max(original) helping them to hold prices up. But in reality, even a bloke my age (62) baulk at paying so much for a bike that age, when tbh, money is bloody tight nowadays. I'd love a z9, but I'm not going to fork over an insane amount of money to get one.
Hello Nav. Really enjoy your insight on the subject. I feel your right over the target.
Ebs and flows in the market are historically common.
I see a lot of bikes, and vintage cars for sale right now that aren’t selling because of owners that aren’t realistic of the current situation.
I’ve learned not too overpay and be patient if looking for a certain make or model. The right bike and price will come along.
Thanks for your videos and God Bless you and your family this Christmas!
Exactly what I do. Never overpay because there’s going to be highs and lows. Merry Christmas !
It’s all about what bikes we wanted in high school. Those are the bikes we want when we get old and have money..
I've never had anyone recognise my stock 83 FXDG .. Most recognise my 81 Sturgis, but the much rarer FXDG... mine is the only surviving one in my country of Switzerland.
It is the money that dropping the value the dollar is collapsing, same with the Pound. People are losing their income.
Hard to get parts, hard to fix, takes gobs of time, hard to convince a buyer or build client what it costs to restore. Etc, etc.
I've seen most of the rare bikes at one time or another at the Toronto motorcycle Show (the one at the International Centre in January). Broughs, Vincents, Triumphs, BSAs, Nortons, Vellocette, AJS, Gilera, etc. To me these bikes are mostly antiques. Something like a first gen GPz that I lusted after when I was in high school is more my speed. I bought a 2000 ZRX1100 in red, silver and black when it was new.
That Gold Star is a real beauty, hope you'll enjoy it 😊
Fuel consumption will be a big issue in the years ahead.
Here in the uk its diffecult to get any bike for a resonable amount some need work and not many want to do the work
Most of the time it's not worth doing the work. It would be double what the bike would go for when finished. One already fully restored isn't a huge amount more.
Acquiring the parts too and the parts are ridiculously expensive.
Why would you want to do the work, these days? There are no longer parts on the shelf. There's no longer the guy around the corner who knows how to do this, that and the other thing and has a friend with a machine that can do "X".
It's a nightmare, these days, getting a drum brake on a spoked wheel bike machined.
For a Norton Commando, parts are available. They are not inexpensive anymore but available they are. New ones are being made, and I mean the vintage ones, not the "in name only" style.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 For the Triumph T140, probably the most common British bike surviving from before the 90s, parts are still being manufactured and you can buy virtually everything off the shelf, from numerous specialist parts stockists. That was one of the reasons I chose mine 32 years ago, and it still applies.
The 'vintage market' has been hostage to cheque book investors. They bought up everything that could be made shiny. The prices demanded, and paid, for bikes which were ordinary at best and often a pos, were stupid.
Take a Norton ES2, in 500cc form it was a slow ohv long stroke single, pushed out under several badges. It was never a big seller, one of those bikes that people bought because there was little else. The 350cc version was an even greater slug.
Those bloody things were snapped up by 'collectors'. Then 'restored' to a level that if they had left the factory they might actually have been a half decent bike. The engines performed better than new, the paint was better, the chrome deeper. Like many restored bikes they had components in them that were far better than new. The prices asked for them, rising as fast as the new investor could write a cheque.
The infestation of the Pebble Beach polish and trailer set is long overdue for a reality check.
Motorcyclists will buy an old bike because they want to ride them. Not spend hours polishing them with extract of some rare rainforest plant. Then boast how much their investment has appreciated.
In my recollection, English machines, even as new back in the day never were "cheap". If you wanted one, new or used you had to pay up. So how do you figure todays market prices are unjust? There never has been a "free lunch".
They were cheap in the 80s and 90s comparatively to now. Certain models have always been expensive but others have shot up to unjustifiable amounts.
I don't pay great attention to collector bike prices. I do have an MK III Roadster I bought in the 70s, and a MK II my brorher bought in the 70s. At the time, they were fast, both modified and the MK III lightened up. They were used as motorcycles al the time. For a period, I commuted over 500 miles a week on the MK III. That was a maintainance nightmare. Like a second job. I've got them up and running with fresh tires now, but they will never be used as tourers again. They are not worth much because they are not stock enough. They are better than stock but collectors want other. H2 is an interesting phenomenon. 20 mpg and a short life span. Not a realistically useful machine. The last H2s were slower than a Commando stock but got better mileage. When I was 16 or so, my former scoutmaster was crazy enough to let me try his brand new early model. I thought it was great.
Good vid... why are you into Brit bikes? I'm 59 and have always been into Brit bikes even though I was not really of that generation (RD 250LC was the Goldie of my time!) For me it was probably because of liking heavy metal music.. Here in the UK oldies who have Brit bikes own 6 or 10 of them! When they ( or their reli's) sell up it's like a mini flood of the market - soon it will be Tsunami. Most young people into bikes not only have no connection to these brands they have no knowledge of the 'tech' involved - mags, carbs, dynamo's, drum brakes and points - and why should they?
I've seen this before - in the late 70's early 80's Brit stuff was worthless - knowledgable people used it as cheap transport, then came the 'classic' movement. Some stuff got collectable but make no mistake whilst a Vincent was being restored a Bantam was being scrapped. Then every thing old suddenly got collectable and it stopped being transport - the same will happen again with each tier of desirable getting smaller and 'rarer' but with less market (people) There are millions of Brit bikes world wide, enough to satisfy any future market many times over .... forget the money -- if you like these bikes you're in for a treat when they all become available and this time round they're restored and ready to go not shagged out wrecks! I paid £300 for my BSA Super Rocket when I was 19 and intend to keep it till its worth that again!
I don’t think it will ever be worth that again. But the reason I’m into them is my father has always had them. More so they are a part of motorcycling history and they have a distinct personality that non of the other bikes offer. Which is what is lost when they are parked hidden.
@@navscyclesThen you weren't around riding in the 70's when we just laughed at these decrepit poorly made, unreliable, gutless pieces of British rubbish.... Yes. All of them. BSA, Triumph, Norton etc were total garbage compared to what Japan were churning out back then........
Old bikes have been overpriced for to long, which is a great pity because young riders are missing out on the fun and frustrations of keeping one on the road. The horders have destroyed the market and now they are getting to old and dying out. The market in the UK is very volatile because the government is coming down on every section of motorists, meaning if a bike is 40 years old there is no tax or yearly inspections so even Honda 125 s are £1000+ if its old enough to qualify. If its older than 10 years then it probably won't be euro 5/6 therfore you will be punished by going into a restricted zone in a big city so bikes like yamaha fj1200 and suzuki 1200 bandit can be had for the same price of the 40 year old 125 so which is madness. The market hear I the UK is all over the place due to these reasons. There is still a company that buys bikes in the USA and ships them back hear because they are old....... Odd world at the moment 🇬🇧🇺🇲👍
I've always wondered if that guy on the Vincent in bathing trunks on the Bonneville Salt Flats managed to stop without road rash. Everybody that has ridden a motorcycle has seen that picture. Most have been tempted to replicate it. Yoiks
Demographics has a lot to do with it, and also the fact that for too long folks had become used to the expectation that an old bike would make money, not lose it. That idea held for a good few years (the last 30 or so) but not any longer. Now, perhaps, the market for old brit bikes is more realistically priced, and if viewed differently, is a good and affordable time to buy. Put in short terms, most pre '60 bikes are selling at prices far closer to what they are realistically worth. The market is favouring those with the interest/desire to ride and learn about old bikes.
The prices may be viewed as "crashing " but only if you view the machines as "investments". They are not, and realistically, never were. Recent years have been somewhat of a fiscal "bubble" and we have all become used to/expectant of a positive upward outcome. Not any longer....
It is also happening with the collector car community. The young aren't interested in anything that doesn't have a touch screen accessing a "virtual" environment. ie. no yucky oily work needed.
That’s not necessarily true. It’s actually the opposite for most enthusiasts. We want simpler cars. That’s why a lot of 90s cars have gone up in value so much and why new sports cars dont sell.
@@navscycles I am in Australia, so conditions here may be different to yours. The old bike/old car market is basically static, nothing much selling regardless of price, where once people would negotiate, now ads just don't get any response. The demand just isn't there. Cost of living has gone very high thanks to green power pushing up electricity prices hugely. Food and housing are constantly going up. People just don't have the money to spend on "wants", so they have prioritised "necessities".
Cost of living here in the us has also gone up. But I still disagree cars of the 90s are seen to the community as THE cars. Now cars of the 60 and 70s I can see them sitting. That’s the same here as they don’t have buyers.
And that’s mainly because those muscle cars were destroyed by the generation who owned them and now are expensive and we don’t or can’t pay for them. Otherwise again my generation would be all over classic muscle cars.
How are the Airheads trending? I have an R60. R65 and an R100R. I love them all and they still seem affordable. Kinda suprised.
I think those are a completely separate market like the Italian bikes. Those owners are very different and are willing to pay for the bikes.
However with the economy they have come down and the bikes that skyrocket have seen a lot of decline.
royal enfield bullet early 1980 still going strong
basically all the cashed up fo;ks who had a brit bike in their yoof are fading away and the prices are droppin to what they SHOULD be
Brit bikes are falling because the skills to run them , maintain them and ride them is disappearing as the people who desired them are giving up bikes ,passing away of just have found the riding of them too much also available money ,over inflated prices are out of reach , One thing that pushed prices up os it became fashionable to own one and the trend moved from British to 70s superbikes then on to two strokes now its the GSXRs and Fireblades ,
Each sale of a modern retro is a vintage bike sale less or, very near thereabouts. Keeping a vintage bike functioning- assuming it‘s being ridden requires the know-how and facilities. Other than that it’s paying someone else to do the work, if they know how which is also diminishing.
The classic bike market is being killed by demographics. There is not the interest in bikes in the younger generations as they have less connection with motorcycles. A lot of these old bikes will be taken to the grave....
New retro bikes are also having an impact. I learnt to ride on a 70's CB250. Just traded my Goldwing on a GB350; all of the nostalgia none of the dramas. There is no real point in owning a bike and never riding it. Sure a CB750 is a landmark machine but now way too heavy and problematic for us older guys who are the only people interested in them.
You can't take it with you and if you can't ride it, why bother? Downsize, buy something reliable, a bit safer and have fun on the road rather than only in the shed.......
They made around 2600 82 CBX, s
82 was the last year in which they made less because slow sales. Total sales were over 35k and the more desirable ones are the earlier bikes. And that’s coming from someone who has a 82 Cbx
@@navscycles
I put over 100K on 2 82's and 7K on my 79. The late models are much better bikes to ride. Still have an 82.
I would say in essence you appraisal is very realistic and the demographics are 50+ is the market whether it be "always wanted one" or a so called "investment" and probably now has the indulgence money! I think your reference to the "economy" pressuring prices is most relevant that said does a "cheap commute" negate that to some degree? I would not buy a true "vintage bike" I did that in the 50's & 60's and a modern "vintage bike" knocks the socks off most of the offerings in my opinion. I am on the verge of ordering a Triumph 400 speed as the just about everything overall is better, build and ergonomics wise. That said I would "re-buy" my old 650 BSA Gold Flash in a heart beat even though it was a shed!
high grade ... buy the good stuff .. you will make money ... Vincent, MV, Ducati Mk 3s, AJS 7r ... Suzuki Water Buffalo ...not so much
all these machines became worth less than the machines that replaced them in thier era , a lot of british stuff wasnt remotely desirable in its time , and even now with more shine than they had originally not all of them are classics , a lot went out of production cos they didnt compare (were rubbish)rose tinted welding masks
8:47 my god that seat...
Don’t worry I bought it like that. It’s going in the bin as soon as I finish my job on it.
You could have said all that in a 45 second short. Listening to the sound of your own voice ….!
🤩🇺🇸👍⚖️👁️👁️⚖️👍🇯🇵🏁