Is the World an Illusion? Rupert Spira
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video clip, Rupert discusses a common misconception in spiritual teachings stating that the world is an illusion.
Timestamps:
00:00 Understanding the word "Illusion"
02:35 Is the world an illusion?
02:52 Understanding the finite mind
04:52 Can our perception of the world change?
05:35 What is the nature of reality?
07:17 Consciousness is the reality of which experience is made
09:02 I am pure consciousness
10:57 How can awareness build and engineer?
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The key to this question is the understanding of the word "consciousness." Usually we think of "mind" as the same thing as "consciousness" but how Rupert distinguishes between the two is refreshing. "Mind" is here meant to refer to "thought" or "conceptual thinking" which is dualistic, while "Consciousness" is here referring to "experience" or more to the point "awareness" or "knowing of experiencing." The latter is formless, non conceptual, unbounded by the "subject vs object" duality that is always there when we are dealing with things conceptually.
Things come and go, the cup of tea in my hand seems so real, my family seems so real, but stick around if you are able and notice how fleeting these momentary forms actually are. What will become of them in time, in change? We identify with a false "realness" within these things by seeing them in isolation as real "things." And yet even this is "ok" if you understand that game and accept that the suffering which accompanies such a view is integral to playing along.
Enlightenment is not the "transcending of suffering," its seeing suffering for what it actually is - which then paradoxically results in its transcendence.
Experiencing or knowing does not change. What is known changes yes but the knowing itself is changeless. And if it is all an "illusion" there is still the experiencing of the illusion, the knowing of it, the awareness or as Rupert refers to it "the Consciousness" - that is prior to the "consciousness of.."
Personally, I (like Rupert) dont use the phrase "it's all an illusion" because of what I just stated. I prefer to use the terms "dream-like" or "momentary" or perhaps even "illusory" which implies a more fluid condition of "transience" or "ungraspability" without the connotation of outright dismissal.
The question always comes back to this..
Right now, what is it that is aware of this experiencing? OR What is it that is knowing this experience?
Excellent comment.
Great input 😊
Once again, Rupert answers a very common question that bothers most truth seekers with extraordinary clarity and authority.... Thank you. It is a blessing indeed to be able to hear this teaching through you.
SK57 Plato answered this question in the same way with “the allegory of the cave”. Thousands of years ago.
@@brendanramsey8311 I love the allegory of the cave
He explains nothing. Seems to be his forté.😅
Very well said. I love how patient and intelligently Rupert deals with any questions.
Not Permanent, Not Real. Life is like a dream one moment you are here and the next moment you are somewhere else. Movement or vibration is illusory because is constantly changing. Reality is still and eternal.
Hes such a smart man I love watching him
BeautywithMadalina He's not that smart. Because at the end of the day. This world 🌎 is an illusion. Because this life is not real. Only as in so far as we are alive. This life is real in that regard. Other than that this world 🌎 isn't real man. Nothing you do on this earth 🌏 changes death 💀. Which is the ultimate truth for all human life. When you die. Life as you know it does with you. When you die. You will no longer uphold any form of memory upon this earth 🌏. Because you will be dead 💀 and gone. And no longer cease to exist. The only thing that counts within this universe is one's legacy. Bottom line. Contrary to what you may or may not want to believe. Life is real don't get it twisted. But life is meaningless. Which makes an illusion. In itself.
@@Kstretch271with your explanation doesn't clarify of your statement of " he's not that smart"
@@Kstretch271 what does ‘ones legacy’ mean?
Excellent theme... "Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion." ~ Bahá’u’lláh, Baha' Faith
The mantra I use is “I know that I am”
Repeating this establishes my POV directly in awareness itself immediately
Brilliant! Mind is matter both gross and subtle!
Just as a stone doesn't know that it was carved into the shape of Buddha
we don't know that we are Consciousness and eternal.
I'm curious, "we don't know we are consciousness and eternal".
" we do not know" , then u say "we are", that means we know. Exactly how dumb does someone have to be to preface what "we are" with "we don't know"?
Vernon Smithjr
Jargon
Why would you call someone dumb who said something from the depth of their heart and as a result of the direct experienced truth. Not very compassionate comments here sometimes. This is not a competion. Maybe you should consider going back to school.
@@icanfartloud
then why we say we are made of consciousness, but we are not conscious of it for most of the time, until someone points this out, moreover, most of us die unconscious/unaware of being consciousness, so it’s fair to say that we are consciousness and eternal, and at the same time don’t know about it, because even when we are lucky enough to wake up to these truths there is a good chance that you’ll “fall asleep” again and forget about it until the next stimulus
@@patrycjaspov It's just easier psychologically to live aware. Not that you would change anything in grant scheme of things. That's the way I see it anyhow.
In the word illusion is the Latin 'Ludere', which means to Play.
I would say the content of our experience is, in this sense, an illusion. It just means the world is not ultimately fixed or substantial. It is a playful construction, like a dream.
Beautifully spoken Rupert! Thank you so much for your words :)
Ask three questions from yourself after waking from a dream.
1. The observer of my dream was conscious or unconscious?
2. The observer of my dream was in my dream or in the universe?
3. Is the observer of my dream still conscious? If so then where?
Answers of these questions will enable us to understand that the universe is an illusion for Consciousness and real for the mind which is a part of the universe.
As Ramana Maharshi said, The world is an illusion, only Brahman is real. Brahman is an illusion🤔🙄🤗🙏
Thank you Rupert !
You are one of the most lucid english language teacher of Adwait Vedant that I have come across.
In this talk of yours you have precisely and perfectly propounded the meaning of the term "Mithya" as used by the great Adi Shankaracharya in his aphoristic formulation of the total Adwait philosophy viz. "Brahman Satyam Jagan Mithya, Jivo Brahmaiva Na Para".
Please continue with your masterly teachings. You bring the material West nearer to the spiritual East like few people can.
This is so interesting. I have to listen to these things more than once.
Actually, I love hearing these teachings so it's very good.
Thank you!
So, I've just realised something.. I experience life and have Believed it All to be Real. My father dying, betrayal by loved ones, hurt from kids at school, achievements. All have been experiences, but I have been lost in the Thought of it all believing that this was the Only True Reality. To which. It ain't. It's something, but it's not True Reality
You have understood correctly !!
I've watched perhaps half a dozen of this man's videos...this one made me clap my hands, throw back my head and at the same time, I laughed out "aha"
(it was Wonderful! My funnest realization!)
Thank you so much!!!
Thanks! Words are inadequate to express my gratitude for such a lovely answer!!
Without illusion there is no world, there is no word illusion for words are illusions that we invent. Ego invented a vocabulary so we can get in conflict with separated minds.
Just brilliant. Thank you, Rupert.
So, our experiences are real, but they are not who We are,...hmmm🤔 what fun!! Love it, thanks Rupert❤️
Awesome, a wonderful, clear explanation for me. Thank you.
this sums it all up perfectly....thank you rupert
Awesome! Thanks for this!
I would suggest to take an opportunity to experience Virtual Reality like HTC Vive or Oculus with room scale movement. This shows how our brain is building everything around us making us to believe it is real.
I think that is why some say the universe is some kind of computer/simulation...just as the headset gives the impression of separate objects but really it's the headset doing the whole thing; just as physics/quantum physics says there isn't any objects which means it's an whole thing or one thing. So the question is... what is the source...and if there isn't any objects....then this universe cannot be of an intelligence from lets say another universe and you can then roll that back to a lets say first universe and also because there isn't any objects then the universe must be infinite. And you say yourself, that the brain builds everything around us; you must agree then if that is the case that there still cannot be any individual objects? And you which includes your brain has to be part of the whole thing...So we can see/understand it has an illusion; if we want to use the word illusion by looking or holding an object in the hand and then say to yourself...where does that object begin and end in space/time...Because there isn't any objects then that object/s must be disappearing and reforming just like an htc headset virtual reality programme/image or whatever it is the htc is showing...It is inescapable as a comparison that you have used. But your brain is not the headset because we too cannot be an individual/separate object. The collapse of the wave function is an whole collapse and not linear from you to it for example...So it's not the body/stroke body mind doing it...It's/it is doing the universe and you at the same time...So are we the source? Not the me the body! Are we really awareness/mind/consciousness. The metaphor I use is imagine a pair of eyes somewhere on the edge of the universe and it's mind that's really seeing/perceiving. And going back to that object in which we can say where does it begin and end!... can't really be 3 dimensions and must be a construct of mind. So what and where is our mind and another metaphor I can use is... physics/universe should be called biology because physics is a description of the workings of and not fundamental. We are within ourself and the self is not the body only...it's everything we perceive. I hope to understand one day
andrew judge
“Aren’t” any objects. “Isn’t” would only indicate a single object or idea.
But in that case you can’t touch what you see
@@anllpp Everything is Consciousness.
"This is the primordial illusion: people think that the world is ancient. Actually, it rises with your consciousness." (Nisargadatta Maharaj)
Exactly, just as in a dream.
I like that.
I'm drifting from my feeling of understanding.
nice, crystal clear!
Thank you for this. I'm starting to get it.
Beautifully and clearly articulated 🙏
Wonderful, today first time I understood the truth to some extent
Rupert shows true compassion here and wisdom
does he? where is the compassion?
What compassion, he just told you he is not, real your family is not real you are forever alone?
Right there at 13:00 Rupert is able to calmly explain in a very human way such a misunderstood saying. Thank you for being the unique expression of God you all are.
GREAT RUPERT VERY CLEAR.
I perfectly understand you :-) We are all Self- Conciousness in varying stages of awareness.
Consciousness is still in the ego domain, the domain of "form". But we are formless, which is not understandable from our perspective.
Great teaching
Thank you for posting. 🙏❤️🕉️
The World is not an illusion in the sense that the World is the Word made manifest for the purpose of Love.
In other words; the reason why We are Diverse in Life is to be able to Love and Be Loved.
Naturally everybody is encouraged to believe whatever feels best or most comfortable.
But this is my realization after many years of contemplation and studying Christianity, Buddhism, Tantra, Advaita Vedanta, Quran, etc. ♥
Thank You..
Concepts are not a problem, beliefs are the problem. They are concepts that are believed to be true. Great insight. Concepts are just models, tools for experience 😊
Thank you!
For what?
A thought provoking discussion!
Here are my thoughts on this subject.
The 2 worlds
world 1. The world as perceived and activated by the Source which creates it.
The NOW which includes the seeing and the doing.
As seen, heard, felt, smelled or tasted in the present moment.
This is where awareness, intent and love originate.
world 2. Our concepts and beliefs about this world we perceive. What we might call the inner world.
I will call it Mind.
This is the world in memory as understood by the Mind.
It contains ideas and opinions and feelings about living creatures, places, history, etc.
This is where our 'identity' or the ego is found.
It is our understanding of our place in the world.
This world is as accessible with the senses blocked as it is when fully aware of the surroundings
and this difference should make it clear what I am referring to.
It has an I character who is in a body who has lived and experienced a 3 dimensional reality in time.
This world is imaginary (it's just a memory held within my brain) and is used like an 'overlay' over what I perceive directly to make my life experience meaningful and useful.
It is built up over a lifetime.
The Source which perceives and conceives, creates the conscious experience of living being recorded in memory.
The Mind is created and operated by the Source.
The Mind is not opposed to the Source.
However, the power of Mind is such that it can ignore the Source completely.
But this ignorance leads to pain and sorrow, not to mention aggression, hatred and violence.
Eventually all this strife and angst causes the Mind to take a serious look at itself.
This requires 2 things: honesty and compassion
You must love yourself.
If you can truly love yourself, then you can love anyone or anything, because you recognize your self 'out there' where world 1 exists.
The real you is the interface, the going back and forth, between these 2 worlds.
The Source created the me who inherits the same desires and qualities of the Source.
As such I have the power to create within my mind (obviously something not of this world) something imaginary, which I desire, or fear.
Great comment thank you❤️❤️
Good job. I know you are giving all that is more love
Yes, I can relate to that.
WE MUST ALL REALIZE THE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
It's the observer behind the doing & feeling & thinking..these holy trinities are changing all the time..who knows I'm feeling SAD..HAPPY or ANGRY..the observer, or watcher is concious awareness..it I'll be with until your not Concious anymore..in fact the last Concious thing to go is your hearing..you can still hear but can't respond until the end..
Awareness is the pure consciousness and it is the fabric of the universe.
14:30: = concepts are not problems;believes are problem.
Sometimes we say, why not teach what the finite perceived reality since they are our experiences anyway... We forget that what really made us happy and content such as love and joy are by product of the infinite consciousness
-How to snap out of being totally awakened -
That’s the name of my new book.
Where’s the applause button? A thumbs up doesn’t do justice to how important this content is
Wonder full
This guy is a BOSS!
If Consciousness is the only reality, and I am aware that I exist, we must all be one being regardless of appearances. So, I and everyone else must be God because there is only one being.
Shankara had it right twelve hundred years ago: "This world is an appearance" (jagat mithya). An appearance of what, in what, is the crux of understanding. Science tends to concentrate on the 'of what' part, mystics on the 'in what' part. When you can give a complete account of the 'in what' in 'of what' terms, you're done (as far as concepts can take you).
Interesting. I have heard and use the focus on "who/what" we are that non dualists like vs. the "why/how" that mystics tend to focus on. This of what, in what is different, im not sure I get the meaning. Could you explain a bit please.
This was a long time ago, but I just saw your good question in my gmail account for the first time. The world is an appearance, says Shankara rightly. The question then arises: What is it that appears in this appearance, i.e. "of what is the world an appearance"? And also the question: in what does this appearance take place, i.e. in what does it appear? My answer is that it appears in the medium of consciousness, as perception/experience of the world, and that what appears in this medium of consciousness (which is experience through and through), is that of which this experienced world is an appearance, or image, namely the physical universe (with which we - as Kant already recognized - have no direct acquaintance, and of which we know only indirectly, through the image-appearance it makes in the medium of our consciousness, our experience). That, at least, is the conclusion to which a lifetime in neuroscience has led me, and it is gratifying to find myself in full agreement with Shankara. For the only Western philosopher who has plumbed the full depth of this issue, see Arthur Schopenhauer's immortal The World as Will and Representation (easily accessible in the Dover Edition, with the superb translation by E.F.J. Payne). Thank you for your question, and I hope you come across my belated answer.
'Concepts are not problems-beliefs are problems and beliefs are simply concepts that we believe to be true' Rupert Spira
I like this questioner!
Very insightful discourse and explanation of illusion. Avatar Meher Baba once dictated. " I've come not to destroy illusion , but to make you aware of it 's nothingness"
Al
cybergeal - Great quote!
~♥~
until you experience it its still just a believe
Yes. belief is one thing and knowing is completely different.
"concepts are not problems. beliefs are problems. all beliefs are concepts, but not all concepts are (worthy of) belief." I put it this way because it helps me understand better. I often apprehend the situations that I encounter day to day and moment to moment ("my life"), as a series of beliefs, points where I in fact must trust life to get me where it is I imagine myself to be going. We really do need help, that is to say, we need each other to become all that we imagine would be interesting to become, and it is this trust that I am comfortable in identifying as LOVE. =)
After all, it seems that creativity is the most poignant aspect of *consciousness*. So... what will "you" believe in? 🐇🐰
I would be grateful if you could share a few more thoughts on consciousness and creativity. Can ones creativity be more closely aligned to consciousness in any way and if so, how do we bring this forth into the world?
For my understanding, Consciousness is made out of the combination of the mind and matter , and thoughts coming from the mind are just tools to help us recreate realities like building a house or achieving a college degree and since neither of those things can’t have consciousness they are then non reals and can be lost or destroyed , now the great question is if we perceive our consciousness to be real what happens to it after we cease to exist in this physical world and what happens to our memories
Yes, of course because having acquired the deeper understanding, one could no longer react "as if" the perceived objects were in themselves "real" things.
*The description of being an "Illusion", refers to the experience being a Program, ( Story ) displayed as an Interactive "Holographic Simulation" in the form of "Virtual Reality", in the Display Register of "The Processing System of LIFE", referred by some in ancient manuscripts as the SOUL... And the Display Register was referred to as "Heaven", ( NOT to be confused with Paradise )... The Experiences are produced from "Program Books" stored in the Permanent Libraries of "The Processing System of LIFE...*
I suspect they still didn´t really meet in this conversation. The concept consciousness is used in so many ways, so, it often becomes a blur, when thrown around between two or more people. Just saying.
I understand about the bridge, but what about the basic material, the planet earth, the sun, the oxygen, etc., which tough makes them? Or is there a basic form of tough in matter?
Good explanation can't wait to pierce the veil
Consciousness living an illusion that it weaves out of itself.
This is why Eckhart Tolle sat on a park bench for 2yrs...... :)❤️
Yes... :)
I'm new to Tolle pls explain the park bench thing
In the perspective of finite all the experiences are the reality. But in the view of infinite what the finite says reality are just an illusion.. 🎉
a dream is an illusion the same as this world is an illusion. If you've ever had a lucid dream you know how real that world is-just as real solid as this world.
Are you saying everyone my mother father brother and everything they are all my mind playing tricks on me they are an illusion (not real) and im forever alone? I want to commit suicide now!
Zita Ani clam down everyone is real I’m real
Yes, in fact a creative approach to the bridge construction would arise as an activity of Consciousness.
Perceptions are different therefore illusory xx
the true master of the universe doctor rupert spira 😅 nobody else is receiving the world through illusion lol
The reason why some teachers say that the experience of a world is an illusion is very simple: that's bcuz you only experience perceptions provided by your body. Noone can ever prove that the screen you are looking at or even touch is really out there. There is a mediatior between the stuff and intelligence: perception. Why the mediator when consciousness alone is the knowing of it? If there really was solid stuff in consciousness there would be no need to experience it with perception. Consciousness is the knowing of it, why it is there..
Reason why the experience of the world of matter is real.. is what Rupert said: everything known in consciousness is the only reality there can possibly be. Nothing but that light of awareness has the ability to be aware. It alone is the knowing of existence. Matter itself is not reality, but it gets its reality from awareness. Awareness is the sole knower that it is. You see it, it's there... it is... without your conscious awareness it would not be..
One step further: YOU are also known in consciousness. And i am too. We are all experiences and intelligence inside that light of consciousness.. it is what looks out of each pair of eyes..
And the entire cosmos got a new address. It is gently cared for inside consciousness. And that's closer to the spiritual, mental plane..and not physical. But consciousness is not even a spiritual thing. How do you call light of awareness? You cant even think of it. You can only be aware of it
I Am infinite, yet I need to be practical and partake in mundane worldly b.s., just does not feel right. I'm 100% KNOWING something is off here. ( from my perspective of course). I choose to surpass this.😮
Wonderful explanation, love it. But next question is how would you define real? I may think I know the answer of real as something without start and end so on and on. but i would like to hear from you.
thanks
Scientists like definitions, but the spiritual trip is about direct experience. Even if a verbal explanation pertained directly to reality it can only ever be a matter of belief in the mind of the one that hears it.
Also real is that which has existence/being
Rupert is really great and I hope he helps lots of people. But just one thing, from a tibetan buddhist point of view, awareness and consciousness are 2 diff things. Consciousness still has some objectivity/ duality.
Yes,as Nisagradatta maharaj says,"awareness z absolute,however consciousness is relative to itz content"...In Buddhism,vijanana or consciousness just refers to the reactionary interface which z generated when sense perception takes place....!...but there z another term for nirvanic consciousness called vijnana annidassam or Unconditioned consciousness....in Tibetan literature diz z called Buddha nature or Rigpa,in Zen it z called Original mind,in Hinduism and Advaita,it z called Brahman....!..
K F: The definition of words and terns are according to the given teaching. There is no universal definition
I understand it but I still haven't had the experience. How do u unbelieve a core belief? Even though I know it I don't feel it
The problem with understanding what Rupert is describing, ( which is the essence of our being) is that it can not be 100% effectively captured by linguistic conceptualization, or as some call it "mental gymnastics". At some point it should be stated, and I'm sure he knows this, that one must reach a point of surrender. Otherwise we are caught in the loop of believing in the concept of the non-conceptual. That being said he is pointing in the correct direction
The very thing you are about to touch is going to change shape. Something with real form wouldn't change shape. Its not real because everything passes through the same point we call awareness. The size of awareness fits everything. As it passes through you realize its just that- it passes. so what you touch must pass. As you hold it in your hand it will pass soon... yet that means its already passed (even before it passes) even as you hold it. Its all an illusion. "I'm moving but not moving at all. I'm the moon beneath the waves rocking and rolling forever". The awareness is the unmoving and the "moving" is everything.
How real is a vague memory?
Great, one thing I feel all of this worldly sufferings are created by mind because it is designed to make you alert from threats so it keeps you involve in problems only ,
But problem is how to switch it off ? Ok seeing your thought can help temporally but how can one alert all time to see the thought , it again drag you to unconscious state.
what does he mean when he says that the people in the restuarant are ultimately made out of the stuff you are and "that has a profound effect on the way you relate to your experience". How does it change the way you relate?
When you see a dream at night everything in that dream is made out of the stuff of your subconsciousness. Out of yourself. But it doesnt appear like that in a dream.
The concepts we have of the appearance of a world are illusory.
8:40: = although people APPEAR...what they really are is consciousness.
Yes, just like ring appears ring until you really see that it is goldring
one foot is in the world of matter and mind and one foot remains in whole conciousness..engage then retreat into meditation...its up to you how much you engage or dont engage.
How blessed I feel to understand English and Rupert's clear loving sharing which I receive without interference of a single thought. Thank you, Rupert. With a prayer from Serbia that all may be enlightened.
Thing is, one cannot know about awareness without a thought.
You know awareness when thinking stops!
Soul which are looking for a simpler explanation should read the story of Nachiketa.
Matter is mental. "The All is Mind. The Universe is Mental." - The KybalionThe world is absolutely an illusion in the Mind, which is All. Sitting in that chair talking is no more real than pink elephants flying over mountains. You can experience or observe whatever you push through this mental machination. Consciousness has to have something to be conscious of. What consciousness observes is an illusion of thought in the Mind, the All.
So desth is the cessation of the material and all realities ?
❤
I am so scared. Help I don't know what to do:((
What are you afraid of
Im not scared per say, im more confused and looking for truth, ive grown up to learn about god but i feel there is more to the universe than just one answer
So, are you claiming that matter itself, is a projection of the mind, or just the concepts we build out of it (like a bridge) ? The latter makes complete sense to me. The former seems unfalsifiable.
The question is ambiguous as to which perspective you are asking from so the answer can vary depending on the perspective. From Pure Awareness matter doesn't exist, so if you ask a question that doesn't make sense the answer doesn't make sense. From the point of view of the Mind matter is made of perceptions and sensations, yes a projection of the mind.
Hi Rupert. Could you please point me to any one of your videos that explains: how the perceptions "appear in", and "are made of awareness". I tend to believe awareness (me) is aware (sees/knows) of the colors, and sensations, and thoughts. Not, that all these "are MADE OF awareness". I would like to understand that. Deep thanks.
In other words I tend to conceive of awareness as me, and as something separate to whom the colors are shown. Like a guy in a movie theater or something. I also tend to conceive of awareness as a quality/capacity of myself.
But really mainly the MADE OF wording is the part that bothers me, as that implies there is only awareness which is itself existence. And that awareness is not a capacity/ a happening/a property/a quality of myself or of existence, and that awareness is not even me.
All you know of an object is the experience you have of it. You don't hear a bird, you only experience the hearing of what your mind assumes is a sound. And that is pure awareness, it's only experience. You're not a guy watching a screen, you're an aware screen who's experiencing a movie. The movie, isn't really experienced by the screen, the movie IS the screen, it arises from it's pixels.
When you think about it philosophically this is true, but it gets very interesting when it's something you manage to experience and understand on a deeper level.
Consciousness --> matter + mind
When we dream, are our dreams CONSCIOUSLY generated? No. They are generated by our UNCONSCIOUS minds. Consciousness is not reality. Mind is reality. Reality is generated by the unconscious aspect of the Universal Mind. The conscious mind is not reality. It is that which EXPERIENCES reality. Reality is mental, and has both a conscious and unconscious aspect.
Concepciones de mundo interno
but what about the law of attraction
Does it mean that matter and consciousness are different?? I have read a quote i.e. "you are the universe". What does this mean?
Matter in it's physical form is different from Consciousness. However, all matter is only ever perceived in the mental space of mind, you cannot experience matter outside of the space of mind, objects of perception takes their form in the mental space of mind. So matter is Mind. Mind is the subtlest form of matter, and Mind arises from Consciousness.
The world is consciousness seen through the mind. İf you look at the world when your mind stopped then you would see it as it is. That is why it was the words Papaji always told to his students "Dont think". And Ramana Maharshi said when there is The Self there is no world. When there is world there is no Self.
1. Why should understanding everything is consciousness change the way I relate to an experience? For example: I will relate to a tool and use it the same way regardless of understanding if I zoom in deeper, it's atoms would be moving. Not stationary like the tool OR the tool is mostly space, not something solid as it appears....
2.
Is Rupert Spira explaining non duality as; matter does not exist or just that it is not how we experience it? I understand any experience perceived thru senses and mind can be highly inaccurate / or different relative to the location, time & differences in physical senses. I also understand the perspective that everything experienced is an indirect approximation of some fundamental reality of matter, etc... but regardless; is matter real? The bridge is conceptually created by consciousness but the bridge is real, right?
He is deluded and just have the hate for the acceptated scientific reality. Saying everything is conseousness is no different from saying everything is matter or gaga. You just changed the name but really no difference. His teaching is too mental and traps you instead of setting you free.
An illusion is what begins and end. Reality or truth has no beginning nor end.
Gérard Lefrançois In human form. This life is not real man. Because when you are dead 💀 and gone. Life as you know it. Will no longer exist to you. So this world 🌎 is an illusion. Because nothing matters besides one's legacy. Nothing matters. But everything matters. In so far as you have life in you. Life will matter. And will be real to you. As long as you have life in your body. Basically what i'am saying is this. No matter what one ☝️ does on earth 🌏. Can't nothing on this earth 🌏 change the fact that all human being's must die. Trust and believe me on that. So therefore life is meaningless. Because when you dead 💀 and gone. Your life will become meaningless. Because you will no longer cease to exist anymore. That there ny friend is the true science of life. That will free your mind. And your soul. God bless man. May god be with you fam o.
Reality does have a beginning, or rather this reality of this world does have a beginning and an end. For each of us the times are usually different.
I think that it's entirely possible that once a person realizes consciousness (the constant of experience) that they then make the big assumption that everything is occurring within it or as it. Indeed, that may seem to be the experience, but how are we to know that consciousness is not just created by our very own matter-based brains? If I'm wearing orange sunglasses, the world "appears" orange. If I'm constantly resting as awareness, everything "appears" as awareness. So, my point is that all of these authoritative declarations of which nondual teachers are fond, could actually be untrue. Just because I feel like I'm not a body, or that the body and everything else is made up of consciousness, doesn't necessarily make it true. How could I know? Even if I survive death as some subtle energy body, perhaps the same mis-perceptions are equally possible within that structure. Just saying.
+Seth Jones This is what I've been confused by.
Does awareness exist prior to thought and emotions, which arrive in it? Yes, which proves, among other things, that this separate self or ego literally does not exist. And with that, aspects of dualism and division - which cut the world into bits, even if it doesn't come as bitten up - are also incorrect.
But it seems the claims of nondualism for credibility definitively end there. The claims on it being beyond the body is what I get lost on often. No self? Sure, neurology can prove this. No separate, isolated things? Much more basic sciences can prove this. But we can't even get a consensus on what exactly *is* consciousness as mere phenomena. How can we make claims on what it is, and make claims about how it flows and goes with this cosmos?
I can concede all innate phenomena happens of itself with no outsider to it, be if of a creator God or a separate self of the mind. I find it puzzling with this innate phenomena to add consciousness, for we can't even describe that in terms of a process observable by science. At *best* we can link it to a manifestation of processes and phenomena that make the human organism what it is. We're kind of left assuming this type of thing merely exists, with no model or method to show it having the properties some claim it has, like everything resulting from it. That is very much an additional layer to what we can prove and talk about that constitute "what is."
+Seth Jones Sorry for this block of random text, I was a bit inspired.
Some define consciousness similarly to the quantum vacuum where particles pop in and out of existence in a cloud of probabilities. Consciousness in this sense is a limitless field of probabilities where anything can happen.
If that's true how can a limited human mind know the limitless? It's impossible. From what the sages have said, the only way is to go to the source, beyond the mind. Since consciousness is subjective, you can get "there" only through experience of pure awareness - without the mind-to-physical matter interface which transforms the base reality into this human experience. This filtering or transformation is useful for us existing in physical reality in the same way how web sites are interfaces for data in the form of binary code, subatomic particles and so on. The brain is useless if it has to deal with such an amount of "low-level" information, even the binary representation means almost nothing to it.
Here's something that I sometimes think about. Carl Sagan was talking about "The flatland" creatures, that existed in 2 dimensions, not percieving height. If a 3d being said something to them from above the flatland they would not be able to point to the source of the sound, it would appear to be coming from within. And similarly we cannot percieve 4d space. To be able to have 4d vision we would have to be able to see a cube from all angles at once. That would be like putting cameras all around a cube and plugging the cables into our mind. And again, it would feel like the cube is inside of us.
And since you mentioned subtle energy bodies and misconceptions. I've read some books on "out of body" experiences or "astral travel", and I find that the most fascinating material on OBEs are presentations by William Buhlman (here on YT). He says he's had experiences where his energy body is released from the limits of human form, and he becomes like a drop of consciousness with 360° vision with a greater degree of clarity and "realness" of experience than in the normal waking state. He says the main trick to get these abilities is to get rid of the belief that we are just humans - physical beings with 2 eyes.. Again to get there you have to go within yourself, and experience the various states of consciousness, and most of them (well the interesting ones at least) require you to still your mind.
Trying to quantify and objectify such experiences for proof is very hard. The closest thing to proof would be to meet another person in such a state of consciousness and then later verify it in the normal waking state. Reading, knowing and understanding stories such as these is not going to convince anyone unless they experience it themselves. But it's not that easy. I'm still trying to achieve such states but I've had some interesting experiences that are nudging me in this direction. I don't completely believe any of it but I assume reality is based on consciousness. To believe anything robs us of a chance for true knowledge.
See my reply to *Yes This, just above. In that reply I take it for granted that, as you say, consciousness is "created by our very own matter-based brains".
Only when Disney and Sega go "Fusion-Ha!"
An infinite forest lies dormant in the dreams of a single acorn