So basically, you did a test proving what everyone already knew, and you think because of that test prusa stole your idea. Wow, you must really think the universe revolves around you. Also, don't compare yourself to the BLtouch. You simply made a observation, in their case they spent the money and time actually developing a product, and then the designs were directly copied. You didn't develop anything. That would be like me saying, I think everyone just needs a car that can fly, and it would solve traffic issues. And then when a company releases a personal flying car, am I allowed to then go, Hey! That's my idea, everyone copy and rip them off, because that's my idea. Regardless as to weather you put any effort into it. You were not the one to actually spend effort developing the idea and making it a reality.
you can't claim something as your "idea" just because you didn't know about it's existence before. enviromental influences on different sensing technologies including heat and inductive sensors are well known variables in the industry. and have been for a very, very long time.
Temperature compensation in electronic circuits (esp. oscillators) have been around longer than most of us. I've had the same idea of temperature compensating inductive probes for quite some time also, as they do use an oscillator to function. Unless you are just trolling, claiming someone stole this idea is like saying you just invented a rounder wheel.
A paper on just this exact matter from 2004...... www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424703004151 "In this paper, we present an inductive proximity sensor with fully integrated electronics. The sensor with the compact hybrid configuration is composed of a sensing flat coil and an integrated electronic interface. We focused during the development on the temperature stability and robustness of the sensor by keeping its low-fabrication cost. " It's paywalled but the abstract says more than enough....
A paper on just this exact matter from 2004...... www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424703004151 "In this paper, we present an inductive proximity sensor with fully integrated electronics. The sensor with the compact hybrid configuration is composed of a sensing flat coil and an integrated electronic interface. We focused during the development on the temperature stability and robustness of the sensor by keeping its low-fabrication cost. " It's paywalled but the abstract says more than enough....
you do understand that research and development of these types of technologies generally takes longer than 5 months before it is ready for market right ??
"I want Prusa to give me a printer." Think about that statement for a second. How gross to say something like that right after you accuse them of stealing IP. Did you make this video so you could try and drum up bad press so Prusa would give you a printer to make you go away? This whole video is lame but that statement really rubbed me the wrong way.
Not only does it look bad because he was falsely accusing Prusa, but just the mere fact that he states that other companies give him printers so Prusa should too. The entitlement. Not only that, but now, how can anyone take their reviews seriously? This made him look like a shill. Happy with the other company because they give him printers but sad at Prusa cuz they won't. But that can change once they give him a printer! Just tarnished his name completely.
Taking about Intellectual property in front of cheap Chinese 3d printers... So you really think that prusa started development after your video? You have any idea how long such a product needs to develop?
Like there is no way that a printer manufacturer would know about sensor temperature fluctuations, specially with a huge printer farm. This video is just butt hurt, click bait and cry for a free printer. Also, Tom Salanderer did a video about sensors and mentioned that the fluctuation is due to thermal expansion. Let's say that you spent a day or two testing this, did you actually put a ds18b20 glued to the sensor and did a correction table? no.
I am sorry to say, that after reviewing the linked video, I fail to see your point. You pointed out a well known problem (sensors are only accurate at the temperature they are calibrated at.) And have a solution: get the more expensive sensors that set further from the bed so they don't heat up so much. You can't patent a problem and Prussia didn't use your solution.
Here is a thread discussing this in March. This is from the prusa forum and this is only the first I found after 2min of Googleing shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/inconsistent-z-calibration-heat-issues--t3777.html
A paper on just this exact matter from 2004...... www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424703004151 "In this paper, we present an inductive proximity sensor with fully integrated electronics. The sensor with the compact hybrid configuration is composed of a sensing flat coil and an integrated electronic interface. We focused during the development on the temperature stability and robustness of the sensor by keeping its low-fabrication cost. " It's paywalled but the abstract says more than enough....
#1. Stop asking for free stuff. Just. Stop. #2. No one has original ideas. No one. #3. "Original Ideas" are just the first person to patent/release/sell/act on them. That's all. #4. If you're "first to [act/file/sell/whatever]" and you DON'T want someone to use an idea, attempt a patent. #5. If you can't/won't get a patent, you need be first to market - and you need to know the risks. If you aren't marketing *anything* yet,: shut-up and WORK on it. (Or just go to a corner and cry - because that's all the good your "idea" will do - no one is going to pay you for your thoughts, given a choice.) #6. Again, having a good idea isn't enough. But, if you're crap at product development - you need to differentiate if you want to charge more, and your customers need to understand the difference. If they don't, that's a "you" problem. Others will simply do it better and cheaper than you. Learn your craft.
This channel should be called "Design Prototype Whine Test". I am 100% sure you were not that only one to think about putting a temp sensor on the probe. Any one with just a couple of days investigating inductive sensors will come up with that idea.
Prusa's tweet sent me to this video. I would have never seen it otherwise. I think you owe him for the views. Maybe buy a printer from him to show appreciation for the tweet.
You are crazy - Prusa releases all of his stuff as open source - therefore patenting it doesn't make any sense. He also already said he'll do the same for the mk3. Also, Prusa took affordable open source 3d printers miles ahead of where they were a few years ago. Ever wondered what 90% of chinese printers are based on? (And those chinese companies don't give anything back to the community, while Prusa actively puts open-source/hardware 3d printing forward - just to name a few areas where he/his company does work: Slic3r (Prusa edition), printer designs (i1, i2, i3), multi-color extruder).
This has been in the specs for the v2 version of the Smoothieware system for well over 2 years. How about we just share ideas ( you know ... "Reprap" ... ) instead of trying to claim ownership of things that are frankly pretty obvious ... Also, you have no idea what Reprap is or how it works, pretty obviously ...
It's less than possible, it's probable, it's been long known that heat effects the results of inductive probes, in fact the relationship between magnetic fields and temperature is well known.
Haha, man you are really something extra! So you think you are the first to realize that heat affects materials! Embarrassing... if I was you, I’d get off the internet 😂😂
In one video I saw Jo Prusa say: It's intersting no-one has done a 1:1 clone. Yes it is. He adds value by mass production. a 1:1 clone would almost certainly cost more until said copy-cat refined production (at the same level of quality). Here is the essence of Manufacturing Engineering.
I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume this video is just click-bait to get people to your channel - which is bad enough on it's own, BTW - and if that's the case, then you might consider doing a follow-up and explain it as such. Otherwise, you're risking whatever credibility you've tried to build as source for 3D printing expertise. The concept you discuss is not new. A quick Google search would have revealed that the temperature effects on inductive sensors is discussed in the "Sensor Technology Handbook," which was published in 2005. It's not hard to imagine that this, or a similar reference, likely sits on the shelf of many engineers and designers who manufacture 3D printers. And as this issue relates to 3D printing, you can find the topic discussed online well before your video post six months ago.
Hm... I learned about the temperatur drift in university (germany) 2 year ago so i guess this is some what common knowlage... And you think prusa developed and manufactured, tested and mass produced this probe because of a video that was just 5 month ago? Prusa is and will stay open source (or joseph needs to get rid of his Tattoo) and he even brings lots of self developed (mostly Software) inovations.... If you are salty because someone uses an idea that you also had, go patent it before... And on patent law it is common knowlage now so he cant even patent ist.............. I guess i stop here...
This is legitimately one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen.... Even if you did notice the temperature differential there is almost no way you were the only one, and the logical thing to do is put a thermistor in the probe so you could measure the temperature and compensate. It’s not exactly the most incredible “invention“ ever. Also the whole thing starts making less sense when you say you want China to steal it... okay so you say you put it out there for free for everyone to use it but that only applies the the Chinese clones?! How in the heck does that make any sense? Then add the beauty of saying all this in front of Chinese clone printers 😂😂😂 the unbelievable lack of self awareness is staggering. Perhaps if your intentions were honest, rather than trying to extort a printer out of Prusa, you could take all your documentation (I’m sure you have some fairly comprehensive documentation since you asked Prusa to provide you with the same) and you could release it under open source and then you could send all that information to “China” and partner up with the printer company of your choice to implement it. Or did you notice a problem that other people also likely noticed and then came up with a fairly simple solution that almost anyone else could have thought of and spit it out almost as if an afterthought on your video? 🤔
4:33 "Stratasys Machines don't use bed leveling" Have you ever used one? The bed needs to be leveled if not, nothing will ever stick to it. The thing with rafts and base is that it creates a "flat" surface for smmoth finish not for leveling, it just compensates for lexan imperfections but the bed is definitely leveled and if it's not a technician does it. They have an specific jig for doing that. It doesn't needs to be leveled each time and that what you expect from a $250,000 printer, it's no the same that it doesn't need to use it, that it doesn't use it. You need to stablish the z distance once and make a calibration. It's good to make videos and take out to the light interesting facts but you have to be sure of them if not you just look like a moron :v
Yeah i dont think prusa stole your design. i did know that a inductive bed sensor was reading diffrent from diffrent heatsource. and "stole" i dont se it. Prusa do tons of reasearch and yeah sure they sell printers with idées from the open source community buth they give that back. all there printers is open source. as soon as the first mk3 is shipped out u can just grabb the parts and make your own mk3 printer because yeah he uploads the stuff for free that he´s company has payd for devolope. and u say that "pursa" stole an ide from a a youtube channel with a video that has little over 4300 views today. ha no i dont think so. your not the first that notice the diffrense. and sure u said that a temp probe inside.. look that idé up on reddit. it was already in discussion when i started with 3d printing back in 2014 - 2015. i think u are actully stupid to call prusa a theif for steeling idéeas when prusa is one of the few compnays that actully fund thinks and devolop things from the opensource community that would never exist.. without prusa´s funding.. your in deep water. very deep water.
he thinks too highly of himself. there are a lot of information that he provided in his videos are only marginally correct. it happens that he realized the temp drift with inductive sensor but it doesn't mean Prusa didn't know about it.
it won't be "open source" for long - the key element is to get on such level of component base which no one can copy, Apple is first on market now which invented "consumer trap" to lock users and all silent about that, from iPhone model 5SE they made that changing the Home button on phone without noticing and paying Apple for repair gets you loosing finger ID function completely, from model 6 they go further - now numerous parts are programmed into the core and changing anything without Apple makes device autolocking for owner, they starting implementing ID's into everything inside - all repairmen are knowing about that. Apple was the first who made USB synching cable for iPhone with digital chip and whole sub-system of accessory identification - so unlicensed at Apple accessory makers products cannot work with iPhone - maximum charging but limited to half of needed power. China was able to make USB-lightning cables but not cracking this digital licensing system - you won't find on market any cheap cable capable of any data transfer - it is stopped by this system.
A search around prusa foruns would get many comments about the temperature/sensor drift. Most users know they have to wait for the printer to get cool before printing again. It is also advised to rise the print head to around 10cm to get less temperature interference. There’s even a thread talking about a sensor that takes the temperature into play. It is and was a well known fact.
I was wrong and showed great hubris thinking I had discovered the issue. That is why I issued the apology video. However, since you are so intimately familiar with the forums please tell me if it was common knowledge that there should be a thermistor embedded in the probe as I suggested in my video?
Yes, the PINDA probe is discussed to death. Prusa were well aware the the probe needed a temperature sensor. They even tried to solve the problem with the firmware. There are many threads about problems with the bed leveling, many suggesting to take precautions with the probe heating up before a print, how to get a finer calibration and even searching for alternative probes. I can't find a thread where a specific probe with thermistor was linked, but I remember it costing more than 50USD. About the need for a better probe: shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/-fw-3-0-11-temperature-calibration-inconsistencies-t4576.html#p33573 "to do a proper temperature compensation you need to know the exact temperature of the probe... which you can - in my mind - only achieve with an additional temperature sensor at the probe." shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/life-adjust-z-my-way-t2981-s270.html "and make sure that the P.I.N.D.A. isn't heated up (due to a nearby heatbed) when starting a print. before you start a print: move the extruder high above the heatbed and let it cool down completely. the damn P.I.N.D.A. is very temperature sensitive.... as well as voltage sensitive (so if you've got instable +5V Vcc inside your RAMBo (maybe because of a toshiba flashair-sd card, or a raspi powered with stolen power from the RAMBo) -> you risk incorrect readings)." Better bed calibration, which was latter incorporated in the firmware: shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/hyperfine-bed-leveling--t4330.html#p32122 "Having altered the firmware, my G80 is new set to this: G80 A-90 B50 C125 D75 E100 F40 G0 H-70 Where A is the home point and the letters run anti-clockwise. Yesterday, after amending the firmware, I printed a 150mm square which was even across the bed with near perfect perimeters and infill. FWIW, the following code from marlin_main.cpp:" A reference to the probe sensivity to temperature: shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/replacing-p-i-n-d-a-probe-t1502-s20.html "Are you raising the print head to z=100? The pinda will get different readings if it is heated to much by the print bed." "Yes, really. You can print fine with ABS, just don't let the probe get hot before the calibration, or you can as long as you always do the calibration with the probe at the same temperature. I prefer to just keep it cold by keeping the probe away from the bed while it's preheating." "seems that prusa is well aware of the problem. inside the actual "beta" firmware, that you can find at github (3.0.10-11), there is a temperature calibration for the pinda implemented. it heats up the printbed in 10° steps from 50°C to 100°C, locates the pinda as close as possible above the bed and waits for a few minutes. then it measures the height of the first calibration point. you'll get something like this (via serial port) as a result (when you've set the required verbosity level first): " (this one posted on april, 30th)
You did not come up with this. This has been known for a lot longer than 5 months. I work with electrical engineers that use those types of sensors and they calculate for temp shifts given ambient temps and altitude. If you thought it was such a great idea 5 months ago when you apparently thought of it, why didn't you patent it or write a peer review paper on it.
You encourage people to read up on the 'Makerbot' story, but dont even know the history of 3d printing yourself ? when was Stratasys the 'big daddy' of 3D printing ? Chuck Hull is the 'father' of 3D printing, he's co-founder, executive vice president and chief technology officer of 3D Systems. He is the inventor of the solid imaging process known as stereolithography (3D Printing), the first commercial rapid prototyping technology, and the STL file format. He is named on more than 60 U.S. patents as well as other patents around the world.
you are way off, This is old news You did not come up with that idea... Thomas mentioned the temperature problem year ago... Josef Prusa stand firm do not give that con artist a printer... I dont own a Prusa printer... and if I want one i will go buy one...
The phenomenon can be observed by everyone who ever printed 2 objects with an inductive probe. It is immidiately apparent that the temperature deviation has to be compensated somehow. The idea to put a thermistor in there is not a thing only you thought about. You do not need a 30 hour study. My very second print on my MK2S, which was done right after the first print, so everything was pretty toasty, had a layer height deviation which was immidiately visible to anyone whith slight knowledge of 3d printing. A 3rd - cooled down - print had the same height as the first print so it was pretty clear what was going on. Also - the MK2S has had a feature to heat up the probe to a known temperature for a long time. Pretty widely known problem with inductive probes.
This guy has no clue what hes talking about. I print on three strat machines at my work, none of them print on a thick layer of soluble support. An objet, a fortus, and a dimension model. Objet had leveling, fortus prints on plastic sheets w/o leveling, but no soluble support because it knows its flat, and the dimension prints on foam, granted a layer of support, but not soluble.
I've had thermal compensation for the mk2 pinda's variance in my starting gcode for almost a year. The bed is heated prior to probing so it is consistent. Z offsets had to be determined for various filaments due to differing bed temps and that offset is put into the slicer profile for that filament. The pinda2 supposedly does this on the fly out of the box, reducing the need for separate profiles for every filament. This is not news, it is progress. Identifying the lack of a thermistor in the probe is not the same as actually inventing a probe with a thermistor.
2 years ago I was talking about this to a customer. No your not the first. I have personally told one of prussa sales rep about what I thought of, and only one other customer had the same idea that I spoke to. Which is a piezo Element to measure nozzle pressure. Many have the same idea. But an idea is not worth a lot these days. It's if you can make the idea successful and profitable is what I have been seeing. I thought of a metal 3d printer using existing metal injection mold technology. And made a playlist a long time ago, talked about a house, many things. Look around, will find it somewhere else. What lead me to believe a sensor can very in was not a big leap, being a form cnc operator. One has to account for temperatures and expansion of metal as it's heated to ensure a dimensional accurate part. So, have explained the theory to many individuals about what happens to a heat bed when heated, and what happens to the glass in the center. Something also said that there's an issue that can happen of your homing sensor, matter of fact, I believe it was put on there by a person who didn't have a 3d printer yet. More on speaking knowledge about the science they know, we know. Point is, not sure if you deserve a 3d printer for talking about an idea. Prusa has said himself in an interview with Thomas sanlander about the mk2 and how they do take from the community and improve on it. An idea did not involve the code it takes to run it, and yet add even more features and still keep the code size reasonable. Your idea didn't give the code that was needed to implement this as well as other factors to development of product.
You were overpaid at $3. China caring about copying prusa? Anet a8, creality cr 10, wanhao duplicator, monoprice select copies of his design are literally Legion and he puts out everything on git so people can copy it. You really don't understand open source very well. China is racing to the bottom. Which means the beds aren't flat so auto bed leveling won't work. My wanhao has a couple of dips in the bed so I have to manually level so I can take that into account. Prusa has mesh leveling which would require a more expensive mbd that the Chinese won't buy
Also, wahhhhhhh. If you want credit/ money for something, you needed to hold on to it and patent it. At least a design patent! Then you need to sue, which you're probably going to lose. Also, patents won't help you against China.
You changed you title. I don't think Prusa claimed to have 100% original ideas, but at least they innovate a bundle cool stuff together to give the best printing experience possible to the end user. Although I'm pretty sure they came up with a few original ideas. We are hating on you because your statement makes no sense.
The China problem is a huge one and it doesnt only affect 3d printing. People build a product up with effort and their own money and then China just rips it off riding the wave with little risk.
One way to get a Prusa. I did the same thing with Tevo and autobed level sensor. Here are my notes testing it. I dont believe anyone stole your idea. This seems common sense to me measuring metal that is heating up. I determined that it took 5 minutes to become reproducible. I have more data points but here are the extremes. Sorry cant link my article. I suppose I stole from you as well :D Recv: Bilinear Leveling Grid: Recv: 0 1 2 3 Recv: 0 +0.340 +0.292 +0.317 +0.380 Recv: 1 +0.418 +0.342 +0.338 +0.392 Recv: 2 +0.494 +0.408 +0.381 +0.396 Recv: 3 +0.545 +0.457 +0.442 +0.499 Recv: Bilinear Leveling Grid: Recv: 0 1 2 3 Recv: 0 +0.004 -0.299 -0.483 -0.576 Recv: 1 +0.094 -0.255 -0.490 -0.615 Recv: 2 +0.163 -0.210 -0.466 -0.612 Recv: 3 +0.190 -0.186 -0.445 -0.600
Well so wrong on so many issues, temperature sensitivity for inductive sensing has been known for over 10 years to my knowledge. Its not your discovery. Second patents are worthless as you have you take them out in every single country and some governments do not respect. You seem to be upset because you think you found something which you didnt just google it very simple and that some used the information you made public. Also the assumption that prusa used your public information is just an assumption you have no proof and its highly unlikely they are even watching you vids. Its seems that you think everying is about you where really everying is all about the community. If you really do discover something and you dont want other to use that infornation then dont make it public, very simple.
Before you take this post the wrong way and think I am outright bashing you. Let me start by saying that I do enjoy your videos and I am a subscriber. But, now here is the but, I think you think more highly of yourself and your abilities then most others do. Like when you got your CR10 and before you even got it together and waited for a problem, you started modifying it. I.e. elongating the holes in the bracket for the z axis. That you later found did not need to be done because it had eccentric nuts. It was a bit presumptuous and even pretentious, for you to assume it was automatically wrong, because it was not the way you woulx have designed it. But lets address the current situation. It is highly unlikely that in just 5 months since your video they realized your level of genius coppied, implemented (your idea), rewrote firmware, did extensive testing, AND got it to market for the new release of the Mk3. Or maybe all this happens at a much faster rate for them, then is possible for the rest of the physical world. Just Sayin....
The patent office no longer cares who thought of something first. Now it runs off the date that an 'application' was filed but still follows the basic a) must involve an inventive step (which this idea doesn't) b) must have a real world application and c) cannot be prior art. I have spent thousands protecting an invention that I came up with. I cringed when I heard the last sentence. #crybaby
hey dude prusa known this issue is about 1 year. Josef spoke this on TEDx meeting in czech language. He says that he cannot find a company to make prox sensor with temp sensor. You better learn czech lang. and you can see the original tom sandelanders video graph that he shown temp differences. Now everybody hate you...
Note: You still have time to patent your idea. You have 12 months after disclosure or sale of an idea to file a patent. See www.ipwatchdog.com/2015/07/18/top-5-mistakes-inventors-make-invention/id=59286/. If you want to control/influence what happens with your idea, that is how you do it. If you don't, don't. The idea of a patent is to allow your to reap some benefits of your idea for a time on the agreement that it will be public at some point. You may just decide the video you made is the benefit you wanted and the rest wasn't worth the effort of getting the patent. The paths are all up to you. Also, if the lady that made the BLTouch sensor didn't want to go the patent route, that is her choice. Only she can decide and speak for her intent. I appreciate you passion for her work; but, only she can speak for her intent. If you want to, invite her to a video to talk about her product and share your proceeds with her.
BTW, I have four patents (though they all really belong to the companies I have worked for). I feel a bit bad about that because they were my ides; but, in each case, I probably would not have put forward the effort to get the patent myself; so, I get something out of it just by getting my name on a patent that I wouldn't have gotten without their support. Case and point, I have also had other ideas personally that I have never pursued on my own. I keep some on a list on my phone. Maybe some day. Also, I have had several ideas that I was convinced were unique innovations only to find out someone thought of it too and submitted a patent first. You are not the first to be a "repeat innovator", it happens all the time. There are so many informed smart people out there and Fortune does favor the Bold.
The evidence against your claim is so staggering from comments, articles, and personal experience, the only thing you seem to have accomplished with this video is attract the ire of the entire 3D printing community. I hope the spike in views gives you enough money to buy an apology card.
I like your videos and appreciate your work but this one feels like just making a bold claims just to get more views. Many conversations about the subject before your video. You went fast from probably to accusations. MK3's were shipped to Make magazine for review in Jun/July with fully developed parts and software. And the whole story with "I want my Prusa"... Get more subscribers and they will consider to send you one. Try increase your views in genuine way - this isn't the way.
Distance variation for inductive sensors depending on temperature was a widely known issue for years. You can't claim that prusa stole your idea. You do not own the intellectual property and therefore have no rights over it
Dude you should have searched the internet befire making this video. Joseph prusa has made the prusa mendel in 2009 (makerbot founding), and since then he was one of the top contributors to the project. Besides that bq invented your idea one year before you even thought about the problem of temperature sensitive sensors...
You started the video talking about all the work that went into prototyping and manufacturing the BP Touch, and end by saying none of that is necessary for you to claim full ownership of this notion. You tested to prove a solution was desirable: while Prusa actually did the work to create a solution. You also seem unaware that Prusa's machines are open source. Once the Mk3 ships, he's going to publish the specs.
Dude, "free printers" is the same as taking money. You're making money on Chinese printers that steal ideas exactly like the ones you're complaining about (if not for entire design clones, then cloned components). Ending this with a stab at Prusa for not giving you free printers is ridiculous. You have 2.8k subscribers, what a joke! Do some research before you make a video trying to accuse people of things you hardly even understand.
I think it's unlikely Prusa got the idea from you. It's more likely that in the thousands of hours of running their print farm they discovered the same problems that you did. Even if Prusa did get the idea from your video, all you did was point out a problem you noticed. You took no steps in solving the problem aside from running a few tests to show how bad the problem is.
You make some very good points, but we still don't know for sure. Only Josef himself (or his engineer) knows if they got clued in on the idea from me. I like your reasoning about the "thousands of hours of running their print farm" but it kind of doesn't make sense. Like watch this guy's video: th-cam.com/video/lm3G6jirREU/w-d-xo.html You see that running a print farm occupies all your time just keeping jobs going and dealing with maintenance. It's an entire different mindset troubleshooting and in order to figure out the issue you either need to run some experiments on the sensor or else pour over the boring technical manuals. Then, once you've figured out where the problem is coming from you need to ask the question "What can I do to fix this issue." It's hard enough to ask the question and even more difficult to come up with the answer: "Put a temperature sensor inside the probe and compensate for the drift in firmware." Did you watch the sciency video I made, or did you just see this video?
@@DesignPrototypeTest honestly I just happened upon one of your videos today in which you seemed pretty salty towards Prusa. In that video you referenced this video so I decided to check it out. I have been using Prusa printers since the MK2. While I did have several issues with the printbed of the MK2 being warped overall I have had a great experience with my Prusa printers. I have been using my MK3 since shortly after it was released with no problems. Every time I contacted Prusa with a question or concern, somebody got back to me within 48 hours. When my printbed was proven to be the problem they sent me a new one for free. Given my experience with Prusa I was just trying to figure out what they could have done to piss you off so bad.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I just watched the video of the 3d printing farm. I think that farm is a different animal than Prusa's farm. I work in maintenance at a manufacturing facility where we make a lot of our own production machines. The process for improvement usually goes something like this. The production workers operate the machines. If the machines have problems maintenance will fix the problems with the machines. If the same problem keeps happening somebody from maintenance will often stand at that machine untill they can see why the problem is happening. Once you identify the problem and why it's happening if it's something a line maintenance worker can't fix the problem goes to engineering and or fabrication to make a solution. Since Prusa in in the business of hardware I would think they are always looking for ways to improve their products so any problems the print production workers have is an opportunity to improve the machines next iteration. While I do believe Prusa takes suggestions from end-users into consideration for improvements I think all of the printers they run 24/7 show them what the majority of the problems are that need to be fixed in the upcoming designs. As well as letting them test new ideas.
Hi Keith, I would love to continue this conversation! Maybe I could even include your words in a video. I need some footage or pictures to show everyone. Could you send me an email with some photographs of the place where you work. This will give my viewers something tangible to understand instead of the general principles you are talking about. It would be especially amazing if you could make it into a video with you narrating and pointing at the machines you are talking about.
just my 20sen point of view. My father got an Idea 30years ago. to transfer hardware shop to shopping mall style. and now Mr DIY nice hardware shop everywhere in Malaysia. but he never involve ... I feel sad every time this remind me. Prusa got the credit because they get every one idea and invest time to work on it make it to product create brand. and china people send you printer because want you to ads for them. Prusa do not need that. unless you got 10 time more subs. Yeah World is unfair . I already accept the truth. so . just do. make self happy . if got chance go All in . do not regret . Wish you happy all time.
You might also consider that the implementation turn around from integration to production was slightly longer than 5 months. Prusa doesn't shotgun developments.
I don't believe that they stole your idea. This issue has been known for quite some time. Open source is a double edged sword. It allows the user community to rapidly develop ideas through the hive mind principle. It also allows anybody to use and implement those ideas. Manufacturers benefit without having to pay employees for research and development. End Users benefit by not having to pay through higher prices for those innovations. Prusa is not the bad guy here, he did not turn around and try to patent this idea or make it proprietary in any way. Prusa has benefited the 3d printing community by making everything open source for anyone to freely copy. The end result is cheap Chinese printers like the ones sitting on your desk.
Just in normal (heavy) use of one i3 MK2S I've noticed the PINDA's readings vary with temperature. (Allow a 100C heatbed to sit there for half an hour whilst the printer is in an enclosure, then start the print and the nozzle will be too high. Compensate for that and next time you print from cold it'll be too low.) Does that mean I 'stole your idea' as well? And you think Prusa wasn't aware of the temperature dependence of the PINDA probe? Why would they even address the problem if they weren't aware of it _being_ a real, practical problem? Prusa are very much not into adding anything unnecessary.
So i got chinese company printer in 2020. Upgraded everything, not even same printer anymore. Still gives me issues and prints max 80 mms. Last week i got an assembled Prusa MK3S+. Pulled it out of the box and printed. Best prints I ever saw. Oh, BTW, prusa slicer has the profiles for the filament, i did not have to tweak anything. So $1000 much cheaper than 350 + all the upgrades i did on other printer.
Oh, my. Seems like you are mostly butthurt because Prusa released a product based on someone else idea, but that is the thing. Apparently they where the first to make a product that people can use. Apple did not invent the iPad or the smartphone. They just brought it to the market, no need to cry about it.
Wow dude... there are a lot of things that I've come up with that I think would be awesome... but after doing some research I find it has been realized, or something better exists. The key word there is research. Maybe before doing your next video, and ranting for 6 minutes on how your idea was ripped off (yet at the same time supporting you want China to do that to you) all to get a free printer, you should do your background research.
![[FULL EP.16] เซียนพาลุย "เผือก-ฟรอยด์" กรี๊ดลั่น จนปูหนี | เฮ็ดอย่างเซียนหรั่ง | One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FsqUvwS3b-Y/mqdefault.jpg)
So basically, you did a test proving what everyone already knew, and you think because of that test prusa stole your idea. Wow, you must really think the universe revolves around you.
Also, don't compare yourself to the BLtouch. You simply made a observation, in their case they spent the money and time actually developing a product, and then the designs were directly copied. You didn't develop anything.
That would be like me saying, I think everyone just needs a car that can fly, and it would solve traffic issues. And then when a company releases a personal flying car, am I allowed to then go, Hey! That's my idea, everyone copy and rip them off, because that's my idea. Regardless as to weather you put any effort into it. You were not the one to actually spend effort developing the idea and making it a reality.
Seems to be a trend with this guy.
You're acting like a greedy 2 year old that didn't get his way.
you can't claim something as your "idea" just because you didn't know about it's existence before. enviromental influences on different sensing technologies including heat and inductive sensors are well known variables in the industry. and have been for a very, very long time.
not to mention the manufacturers knew about this since before they shipped the very first one....
Unsubscribed.
Temperature compensation in electronic circuits (esp. oscillators) have been around longer than most of us. I've had the same idea of temperature compensating inductive probes for quite some time also, as they do use an oscillator to function. Unless you are just trolling, claiming someone stole this idea is like saying you just invented a rounder wheel.
and.... the best example of all is the temp sensor in your hotend...
A paper on just this exact matter from 2004......
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424703004151
"In this paper, we present an inductive proximity sensor with fully integrated electronics. The sensor with the compact hybrid configuration is composed of a sensing flat coil and an integrated electronic interface. We focused during the development on the temperature stability and robustness of the sensor by keeping its low-fabrication cost. "
It's paywalled but the abstract says more than enough....
He didn't steal your idea, he just produced a very good implementation of an idea that's been around for a very long time!
A paper on just this exact matter from 2004......
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424703004151
"In this paper, we present an inductive proximity sensor with fully integrated electronics. The sensor with the compact hybrid configuration is composed of a sensing flat coil and an integrated electronic interface. We focused during the development on the temperature stability and robustness of the sensor by keeping its low-fabrication cost. "
It's paywalled but the abstract says more than enough....
you do understand that research and development of these types of technologies generally takes longer than 5 months before it is ready for market right ??
crying for a free printer and posting affiliate links, this guy needs a better job #brokeass
"I want Prusa to give me a printer." Think about that statement for a second. How gross to say something like that right after you accuse them of stealing IP. Did you make this video so you could try and drum up bad press so Prusa would give you a printer to make you go away? This whole video is lame but that statement really rubbed me the wrong way.
Not only does it look bad because he was falsely accusing Prusa, but just the mere fact that he states that other companies give him printers so Prusa should too. The entitlement. Not only that, but now, how can anyone take their reviews seriously? This made him look like a shill. Happy with the other company because they give him printers but sad at Prusa cuz they won't. But that can change once they give him a printer! Just tarnished his name completely.
@@cbzeej Don't think there is anything left of his name to tarnish, seems to be one of the most unlikeable people on youtube.
Taking about Intellectual property in front of cheap Chinese 3d printers...
So you really think that prusa started development after your video? You have any idea how long such a product needs to develop?
Like there is no way that a printer manufacturer would know about sensor temperature fluctuations, specially with a huge printer farm. This video is just butt hurt, click bait and cry for a free printer. Also, Tom Salanderer did a video about sensors and mentioned that the fluctuation is due to thermal expansion. Let's say that you spent a day or two testing this, did you actually put a ds18b20 glued to the sensor and did a correction table? no.
This video is TH-cam Suicide. Classic.
There is no stealing in open source thats the beauty of It all!
Rons Rosenquist I agree. Hence my use of quotation marks. It's a good word to summarize the issue in the title.
Do you really think it only takes 5 months from an idea to a finished product? Yes you had the idea but that does not mean it is yours!
In before comments deleted.
more like.... in before channel is deleted :P
Me too, me too!
Seriously.
Where's the laugh button? LOL x'D
Hey, wanna hear a 3D printer joke?
I've invented temperature drift compensation for inductive sensor!
How to kill a YT Channel 101.
Good job sir!
I am sorry to say, that after reviewing the linked video, I fail to see your point. You pointed out a well known problem (sensors are only accurate at the temperature they are calibrated at.) And have a solution: get the more expensive sensors that set further from the bed so they don't heat up so much. You can't patent a problem and Prussia didn't use your solution.
Here is a thread discussing this in March. This is from the prusa forum and this is only the first I found after 2min of Googleing
shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/inconsistent-z-calibration-heat-issues--t3777.html
And here from October 2016, a year ago.
shop.prusa3d.com/forum/improvements-f14/pinda-probe-live-z-calibration-z-offset-and-temper-t2048.html
I've seen it discussed on Reddit also, well over six months ago.
Looks like an apology video is in order.
A paper on just this exact matter from 2004......
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924424703004151
"In this paper, we present an inductive proximity sensor with fully integrated electronics. The sensor with the compact hybrid configuration is composed of a sensing flat coil and an integrated electronic interface. We focused during the development on the temperature stability and robustness of the sensor by keeping its low-fabrication cost. "
It's paywalled but the abstract says more than enough....
#1. Stop asking for free stuff. Just. Stop.
#2. No one has original ideas. No one.
#3. "Original Ideas" are just the first person to patent/release/sell/act on them. That's all.
#4. If you're "first to [act/file/sell/whatever]" and you DON'T want someone to use an idea, attempt a patent.
#5. If you can't/won't get a patent, you need be first to market - and you need to know the risks. If you aren't marketing *anything* yet,: shut-up and WORK on it. (Or just go to a corner and cry - because that's all the good your "idea" will do - no one is going to pay you for your thoughts, given a choice.)
#6. Again, having a good idea isn't enough. But, if you're crap at product development - you need to differentiate if you want to charge more, and your customers need to understand the difference. If they don't, that's a "you" problem. Others will simply do it better and cheaper than you. Learn your craft.
Subscribed just to unsubscribe
I just did the same thing too!
Cold blooded
This channel should be called "Design Prototype Whine Test". I am 100% sure you were not that only one to think about putting a temp sensor on the probe. Any one with just a couple of days investigating inductive sensors will come up with that idea.
"Bell and the like button"?! What about dislike and unsubscribe?! You are delusional..."Prusa stole your idea..." Yeah right...
Unsubscribed... poor show. Very poor show
Prusa's tweet sent me to this video. I would have never seen it otherwise. I think you owe him for the views. Maybe buy a printer from him to show appreciation for the tweet.
You are crazy - Prusa releases all of his stuff as open source - therefore patenting it doesn't make any sense. He also already said he'll do the same for the mk3. Also, Prusa took affordable open source 3d printers miles ahead of where they were a few years ago. Ever wondered what 90% of chinese printers are based on? (And those chinese companies don't give anything back to the community, while Prusa actively puts open-source/hardware 3d printing forward - just to name a few areas where he/his company does work: Slic3r (Prusa edition), printer designs (i1, i2, i3), multi-color extruder).
Ranting about China clones while sitting in front of China clone printers.
Priceless!
This has been in the specs for the v2 version of the Smoothieware system for well over 2 years. How about we just share ideas ( you know ... "Reprap" ... ) instead of trying to claim ownership of things that are frankly pretty obvious ...
Also, you have no idea what Reprap is or how it works, pretty obviously ...
Flat earth videos never get this many thumbs down. Bravo sir.
It's less than possible, it's probable, it's been long known that heat effects the results of inductive probes, in fact the relationship between magnetic fields and temperature is well known.
Haha, man you are really something extra! So you think you are the first to realize that heat affects materials!
Embarrassing... if I was you, I’d get off the internet 😂😂
In one video I saw Jo Prusa say: It's intersting no-one has done a 1:1 clone.
Yes it is. He adds value by mass production. a 1:1 clone would almost certainly cost more until said copy-cat refined production (at the same level of quality). Here is the essence of Manufacturing Engineering.
I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume this video is just click-bait to get people to your channel - which is bad enough on it's own, BTW - and if that's the case, then you might consider doing a follow-up and explain it as such. Otherwise, you're risking whatever credibility you've tried to build as source for 3D printing expertise. The concept you discuss is not new. A quick Google search would have revealed that the temperature effects on inductive sensors is discussed in the "Sensor Technology Handbook," which was published in 2005. It's not hard to imagine that this, or a similar reference, likely sits on the shelf of many engineers and designers who manufacture 3D printers. And as this issue relates to 3D printing, you can find the topic discussed online well before your video post six months ago.
This is insane on so many levels. You definitely proved something to the world, even though it is not something I would be proud of.
before you go shouting about something.... CHECK YOUR FACTS FIRST !!!!
Hm... I learned about the temperatur drift in university (germany) 2 year ago so i guess this is some what common knowlage... And you think prusa developed and manufactured, tested and mass produced this probe because of a video that was just 5 month ago? Prusa is and will stay open source (or joseph needs to get rid of his Tattoo) and he even brings lots of self developed (mostly Software) inovations.... If you are salty because someone uses an idea that you also had, go patent it before... And on patent law it is common knowlage now so he cant even patent ist.............. I guess i stop here...
What a waste of time
This is legitimately one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen....
Even if you did notice the temperature differential there is almost no way you were the only one, and the logical thing to do is put a thermistor in the probe so you could measure the temperature and compensate. It’s not exactly the most incredible “invention“ ever.
Also the whole thing starts making less sense when you say you want China to steal it... okay so you say you put it out there for free for everyone to use it but that only applies the the Chinese clones?! How in the heck does that make any sense?
Then add the beauty of saying all this in front of Chinese clone printers 😂😂😂 the unbelievable lack of self awareness is staggering.
Perhaps if your intentions were honest, rather than trying to extort a printer out of Prusa, you could take all your documentation (I’m sure you have some fairly comprehensive documentation since you asked Prusa to provide you with the same) and you could release it under open source and then you could send all that information to “China” and partner up with the printer company of your choice to implement it.
Or did you notice a problem that other people also likely noticed and then came up with a fairly simple solution that almost anyone else could have thought of and spit it out almost as if an afterthought on your video? 🤔
4:33 "Stratasys Machines don't use bed leveling" Have you ever used one? The bed needs to be leveled if not, nothing will ever stick to it. The thing with rafts and base is that it creates a "flat" surface for smmoth finish not for leveling, it just compensates for lexan imperfections but the bed is definitely leveled and if it's not a technician does it. They have an specific jig for doing that. It doesn't needs to be leveled each time and that what you expect from a $250,000 printer, it's no the same that it doesn't need to use it, that it doesn't use it. You need to stablish the z distance once and make a calibration. It's good to make videos and take out to the light interesting facts but you have to be sure of them if not you just look like a moron :v
Yeah i dont think prusa stole your design. i did know that a inductive bed sensor was reading diffrent from diffrent heatsource. and "stole" i dont se it. Prusa do tons of reasearch and yeah sure they sell printers with idées from the open source community buth they give that back. all there printers is open source. as soon as the first mk3 is shipped out u can just grabb the parts and make your own mk3 printer because yeah he uploads the stuff for free that he´s company has payd for devolope. and u say that "pursa" stole an ide from a a youtube channel with a video that has little over 4300 views today. ha no i dont think so. your not the first that notice the diffrense. and sure u said that a temp probe inside.. look that idé up on reddit. it was already in discussion when i started with 3d printing back in 2014 - 2015. i think u are actully stupid to call prusa a theif for steeling idéeas when prusa is one of the few compnays that actully fund thinks and devolop things from the opensource community that would never exist.. without prusa´s funding..
your in deep water. very deep water.
agreed! this guys losing the plot...its a shame,he's got great videos.
yeah i think someone things he´s a bit bigger than he actully is :P
he thinks too highly of himself. there are a lot of information that he provided in his videos are only marginally correct. it happens that he realized the temp drift with inductive sensor but it doesn't mean Prusa didn't know about it.
He's crying like a baby cuz josef prusa won't give him a "free" printer
it won't be "open source" for long - the key element is to get on such level of component base which no one can copy, Apple is first on market now which invented "consumer trap" to lock users and all silent about that, from iPhone model 5SE they made that changing the Home button on phone without noticing and paying Apple for repair gets you loosing finger ID function completely, from model 6 they go further - now numerous parts are programmed into the core and changing anything without Apple makes device autolocking for owner, they starting implementing ID's into everything inside - all repairmen are knowing about that. Apple was the first who made USB synching cable for iPhone with digital chip and whole sub-system of accessory identification - so unlicensed at Apple accessory makers products cannot work with iPhone - maximum charging but limited to half of needed power. China was able to make USB-lightning cables but not cracking this digital licensing system - you won't find on market any cheap cable capable of any data transfer - it is stopped by this system.
A search around prusa foruns would get many comments about the temperature/sensor drift. Most users know they have to wait for the printer to get cool before printing again. It is also advised to rise the print head to around 10cm to get less temperature interference. There’s even a thread talking about a sensor that takes the temperature into play. It is and was a well known fact.
I was wrong and showed great hubris thinking I had discovered the issue. That is why I issued the apology video. However, since you are so intimately familiar with the forums please tell me if it was common knowledge that there should be a thermistor embedded in the probe as I suggested in my video?
Yes, the PINDA probe is discussed to death. Prusa were well aware the the probe needed a temperature sensor. They even tried to solve the problem with the firmware.
There are many threads about problems with the bed leveling, many suggesting to take precautions with the probe heating up before a print, how to get a finer calibration and even searching for alternative probes.
I can't find a thread where a specific probe with thermistor was linked, but I remember it costing more than 50USD.
About the need for a better probe:
shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/-fw-3-0-11-temperature-calibration-inconsistencies-t4576.html#p33573
"to do a proper temperature compensation you need to know the exact temperature of the probe... which you can - in my mind - only achieve with an additional temperature sensor at the probe."
shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/life-adjust-z-my-way-t2981-s270.html
"and make sure that the P.I.N.D.A. isn't heated up (due to a nearby heatbed) when starting a print.
before you start a print: move the extruder high above the heatbed and let it cool down completely.
the damn P.I.N.D.A. is very temperature sensitive.... as well as voltage sensitive (so if you've got instable +5V Vcc inside your RAMBo (maybe because of a toshiba flashair-sd card, or a raspi powered with stolen power from the RAMBo) -> you risk incorrect readings)."
Better bed calibration, which was latter incorporated in the firmware:
shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/hyperfine-bed-leveling--t4330.html#p32122
"Having altered the firmware, my G80 is new set to this:
G80 A-90 B50 C125 D75 E100 F40 G0 H-70
Where A is the home point and the letters run anti-clockwise. Yesterday, after amending the firmware, I printed a 150mm square which was even across the bed with near perfect perimeters and infill.
FWIW, the following code from marlin_main.cpp:"
A reference to the probe sensivity to temperature:
shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk2-f23/replacing-p-i-n-d-a-probe-t1502-s20.html
"Are you raising the print head to z=100? The pinda will get different readings if it is heated to much by the print bed."
"Yes, really. You can print fine with ABS, just don't let the probe get hot before the calibration, or you can as long as you always do the calibration with the probe at the same temperature. I prefer to just keep it cold by keeping the probe away from the bed while it's preheating."
"seems that prusa is well aware of the problem. inside the actual "beta" firmware, that you can find at github (3.0.10-11), there is a temperature calibration for the pinda implemented. it heats up the printbed in 10° steps from 50°C to 100°C, locates the pinda as close as possible above the bed and waits for a few minutes. then it measures the height of the first calibration point.
you'll get something like this (via serial port) as a result (when you've set the required verbosity level first):
" (this one posted on april, 30th)
Dude, you messed up. Anger is a path to the Dark side. lol
3 dollars - 30 hours makes not a penny an hour, but ten. So you did not make the math right ;)
Don't give him a printer he is clearly clueless !!
You did not come up with this. This has been known for a lot longer than 5 months. I work with electrical engineers that use those types of sensors and they calculate for temp shifts given ambient temps and altitude. If you thought it was such a great idea 5 months ago when you apparently thought of it, why didn't you patent it or write a peer review paper on it.
You encourage people to read up on the 'Makerbot' story, but dont even know the history of 3d printing yourself ? when was Stratasys the 'big daddy' of 3D printing ?
Chuck Hull is the 'father' of 3D printing, he's co-founder, executive vice president and chief technology officer of 3D Systems.
He is the inventor of the solid imaging process known as stereolithography (3D Printing), the first commercial rapid prototyping technology, and the STL file format.
He is named on more than 60 U.S. patents as well as other patents around the world.
Fair enough. I stand corrected.
Geezus! Temperature compensation is going for ages...
you are way off, This is old news You did not come up with that idea... Thomas mentioned the temperature problem year ago... Josef Prusa stand firm do not give that con artist a printer... I dont own a Prusa printer... and if I want one i will go buy one...
The phenomenon can be observed by everyone who ever printed 2 objects with an inductive probe. It is immidiately apparent that the temperature deviation has to be compensated somehow. The idea to put a thermistor in there is not a thing only you thought about.
You do not need a 30 hour study. My very second print on my MK2S, which was done right after the first print, so everything was pretty toasty, had a layer height deviation which was immidiately visible to anyone whith slight knowledge of 3d printing. A 3rd - cooled down - print had the same height as the first print so it was pretty clear what was going on.
Also - the MK2S has had a feature to heat up the probe to a known temperature for a long time. Pretty widely known problem with inductive probes.
Why are his pupils so dilated with an obvious key light shining directly in them? Also, they are some-what red.
Needs a "Moments before this video was made" meme lol
This guy has no clue what hes talking about. I print on three strat machines at my work, none of them print on a thick layer of soluble support. An objet, a fortus, and a dimension model. Objet had leveling, fortus prints on plastic sheets w/o leveling, but no soluble support because it knows its flat, and the dimension prints on foam, granted a layer of support, but not soluble.
I've had thermal compensation for the mk2 pinda's variance in my starting gcode for almost a year. The bed is heated prior to probing so it is consistent. Z offsets had to be determined for various filaments due to differing bed temps and that offset is put into the slicer profile for that filament. The pinda2 supposedly does this on the fly out of the box, reducing the need for separate profiles for every filament. This is not news, it is progress. Identifying the lack of a thermistor in the probe is not the same as actually inventing a probe with a thermistor.
So much facepalm......
Who are you again? This claim is laughable. Unsubscribed.
2 years ago I was talking about this to a customer. No your not the first.
I have personally told one of prussa sales rep about what I thought of, and only one other customer had the same idea that I spoke to. Which is a piezo Element to measure nozzle pressure. Many have the same idea. But an idea is not worth a lot these days. It's if you can make the idea successful and profitable is what I have been seeing.
I thought of a metal 3d printer using existing metal injection mold technology. And made a playlist a long time ago, talked about a house, many things. Look around, will find it somewhere else.
What lead me to believe a sensor can very in was not a big leap, being a form cnc operator. One has to account for temperatures and expansion of metal as it's heated to ensure a dimensional accurate part.
So, have explained the theory to many individuals about what happens to a heat bed when heated, and what happens to the glass in the center. Something also said that there's an issue that can happen of your homing sensor, matter of fact, I believe it was put on there by a person who didn't have a 3d printer yet. More on speaking knowledge about the science they know, we know.
Point is, not sure if you deserve a 3d printer for talking about an idea.
Prusa has said himself in an interview with Thomas sanlander about the mk2 and how they do take from the community and improve on it.
An idea did not involve the code it takes to run it, and yet add even more features and still keep the code size reasonable. Your idea didn't give the code that was needed to implement this as well as other factors to development of product.
I am really sure that the new PINDA probe was already done more than 5 months ago...
I like your videos, but your crying over BS..
You were overpaid at $3. China caring about copying prusa? Anet a8, creality cr 10, wanhao duplicator, monoprice select copies of his design are literally Legion and he puts out everything on git so people can copy it. You really don't understand open source very well. China is racing to the bottom. Which means the beds aren't flat so auto bed leveling won't work. My wanhao has a couple of dips in the bed so I have to manually level so I can take that into account. Prusa has mesh leveling which would require a more expensive mbd that the Chinese won't buy
Also, wahhhhhhh. If you want credit/ money for something, you needed to hold on to it and patent it. At least a design patent! Then you need to sue, which you're probably going to lose. Also, patents won't help you against China.
You changed you title. I don't think Prusa claimed to have 100% original ideas, but at least they innovate a bundle cool stuff together to give the best printing experience possible to the end user. Although I'm pretty sure they came up with a few original ideas. We are hating on you because your statement makes no sense.
Lol, 300 cents/30 hours = 1 cent/hour? What?
The China problem is a huge one and it doesnt only affect 3d printing. People build a product up with effort and their own money and then China just rips it off riding the wave with little risk.
One way to get a Prusa. I did the same thing with Tevo and autobed level sensor. Here are my notes testing it. I dont believe anyone stole your idea. This seems common sense to me measuring metal that is heating up. I determined that it took 5 minutes to become reproducible. I have more data points but here are the extremes. Sorry cant link my article. I suppose I stole from you as well :D
Recv: Bilinear Leveling Grid:
Recv: 0 1 2 3
Recv: 0 +0.340 +0.292 +0.317 +0.380
Recv: 1 +0.418 +0.342 +0.338 +0.392
Recv: 2 +0.494 +0.408 +0.381 +0.396
Recv: 3 +0.545 +0.457 +0.442 +0.499
Recv: Bilinear Leveling Grid:
Recv: 0 1 2 3
Recv: 0 +0.004 -0.299 -0.483 -0.576
Recv: 1 +0.094 -0.255 -0.490 -0.615
Recv: 2 +0.163 -0.210 -0.466 -0.612
Recv: 3 +0.190 -0.186 -0.445 -0.600
Dude what are you smoking??
Next video my optical sensor isn’t original prusa should be allowed to copy me
Well so wrong on so many issues, temperature sensitivity for inductive sensing has been known for over 10 years to my knowledge. Its not your discovery.
Second patents are worthless as you have you take them out in every single country and some governments do not respect.
You seem to be upset because you think you found something which you didnt just google it very simple and that some used the information you made public. Also the assumption that prusa used your public information is just an assumption you have no proof and its highly unlikely they are even watching you vids.
Its seems that you think everying is about you where really everying is all about the community.
If you really do discover something and you dont want other to use that infornation then dont make it public, very simple.
Before you take this post the wrong way and think I am outright bashing you. Let me start by saying that I do enjoy your videos and I am a subscriber. But, now here is the but, I think you think more highly of yourself and your abilities then most others do. Like when you got your CR10 and before you even got it together and waited for a problem, you started modifying it. I.e. elongating the holes in the bracket for the z axis. That you later found did not need to be done because it had eccentric nuts. It was a bit presumptuous and even pretentious, for you to assume it was automatically wrong, because it was not the way you woulx have designed it. But lets address the current situation. It is highly unlikely that in just 5 months since your video they realized your level of genius coppied, implemented (your idea), rewrote firmware, did extensive testing, AND got it to market for the new release of the Mk3. Or maybe all this happens at a much faster rate for them, then is possible for the rest of the physical world. Just Sayin....
The patent office no longer cares who thought of something first. Now it runs off the date that an 'application' was filed but still follows the basic a) must involve an inventive step (which this idea doesn't) b) must have a real world application and c) cannot be prior art. I have spent thousands protecting an invention that I came up with. I cringed when I heard the last sentence. #crybaby
hey dude prusa known this issue is about 1 year. Josef spoke this on TEDx meeting in czech language. He says that he cannot find a company to make prox sensor with temp sensor. You better learn czech lang. and you can see the original tom sandelanders video graph that he shown temp differences. Now everybody hate you...
Not hating, just unsubscribing. Good luck with the channel, really. I hope you do original content instead of ranting like this.
Note: You still have time to patent your idea. You have 12 months after disclosure or sale of an idea to file a patent. See www.ipwatchdog.com/2015/07/18/top-5-mistakes-inventors-make-invention/id=59286/. If you want to control/influence what happens with your idea, that is how you do it. If you don't, don't. The idea of a patent is to allow your to reap some benefits of your idea for a time on the agreement that it will be public at some point. You may just decide the video you made is the benefit you wanted and the rest wasn't worth the effort of getting the patent. The paths are all up to you. Also, if the lady that made the BLTouch sensor didn't want to go the patent route, that is her choice. Only she can decide and speak for her intent. I appreciate you passion for her work; but, only she can speak for her intent. If you want to, invite her to a video to talk about her product and share your proceeds with her.
BTW, I have four patents (though they all really belong to the companies I have worked for). I feel a bit bad about that because they were my ides; but, in each case, I probably would not have put forward the effort to get the patent myself; so, I get something out of it just by getting my name on a patent that I wouldn't have gotten without their support. Case and point, I have also had other ideas personally that I have never pursued on my own. I keep some on a list on my phone. Maybe some day. Also, I have had several ideas that I was convinced were unique innovations only to find out someone thought of it too and submitted a patent first. You are not the first to be a "repeat innovator", it happens all the time. There are so many informed smart people out there and Fortune does favor the Bold.
The evidence against your claim is so staggering from comments, articles, and personal experience, the only thing you seem to have accomplished with this video is attract the ire of the entire 3D printing community. I hope the spike in views gives you enough money to buy an apology card.
I like your videos and appreciate your work but this one feels like just making a bold claims just to get more views. Many conversations about the subject before your video. You went fast from probably to accusations. MK3's were shipped to Make magazine for review in Jun/July with fully developed parts and software. And the whole story with "I want my Prusa"... Get more subscribers and they will consider to send you one. Try increase your views in genuine way - this isn't the way.
Oh, by the way...unsubscribed!
You want to know what you think, as you just said bell icon, the name BELL END comes to mind, thats what i think of you.
Distance variation for inductive sensors depending on temperature was a widely known issue for years. You can't claim that prusa stole your idea. You do not own the intellectual property and therefore have no rights over it
Do you get the meaning of open source?
unscribing... bye
Where an you get a genuine height sensor
Dude you should have searched the internet befire making this video. Joseph prusa has made the prusa mendel in 2009 (makerbot founding), and since then he was one of the top contributors to the project. Besides that bq invented your idea one year before you even thought about the problem of temperature sensitive sensors...
You started the video talking about all the work that went into prototyping and manufacturing the BP Touch, and end by saying none of that is necessary for you to claim full ownership of this notion. You tested to prove a solution was desirable: while Prusa actually did the work to create a solution.
You also seem unaware that Prusa's machines are open source. Once the Mk3 ships, he's going to publish the specs.
Dude, "free printers" is the same as taking money. You're making money on Chinese printers that steal ideas exactly like the ones you're complaining about (if not for entire design clones, then cloned components). Ending this with a stab at Prusa for not giving you free printers is ridiculous. You have 2.8k subscribers, what a joke! Do some research before you make a video trying to accuse people of things you hardly even understand.
I think it's unlikely Prusa got the idea from you. It's more likely that in the thousands of hours of running their print farm they discovered the same problems that you did.
Even if Prusa did get the idea from your video, all you did was point out a problem you noticed. You took no steps in solving the problem aside from running a few tests to show how bad the problem is.
You make some very good points, but we still don't know for sure. Only Josef himself (or his engineer) knows if they got clued in on the idea from me. I like your reasoning about the "thousands of hours of running their print farm" but it kind of doesn't make sense. Like watch this guy's video: th-cam.com/video/lm3G6jirREU/w-d-xo.html You see that running a print farm occupies all your time just keeping jobs going and dealing with maintenance. It's an entire different mindset troubleshooting and in order to figure out the issue you either need to run some experiments on the sensor or else pour over the boring technical manuals. Then, once you've figured out where the problem is coming from you need to ask the question "What can I do to fix this issue." It's hard enough to ask the question and even more difficult to come up with the answer: "Put a temperature sensor inside the probe and compensate for the drift in firmware." Did you watch the sciency video I made, or did you just see this video?
@@DesignPrototypeTest honestly I just happened upon one of your videos today in which you seemed pretty salty towards Prusa. In that video you referenced this video so I decided to check it out.
I have been using Prusa printers since the MK2. While I did have several issues with the printbed of the MK2 being warped overall I have had a great experience with my Prusa printers. I have been using my MK3 since shortly after it was released with no problems.
Every time I contacted Prusa with a question or concern, somebody got back to me within 48 hours. When my printbed was proven to be the problem they sent me a new one for free.
Given my experience with Prusa I was just trying to figure out what they could have done to piss you off so bad.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I just watched the video of the 3d printing farm. I think that farm is a different animal than Prusa's farm.
I work in maintenance at a manufacturing facility where we make a lot of our own production machines. The process for improvement usually goes something like this. The production workers operate the machines. If the machines have problems maintenance will fix the problems with the machines. If the same problem keeps happening somebody from maintenance will often stand at that machine untill they can see why the problem is happening. Once you identify the problem and why it's happening if it's something a line maintenance worker can't fix the problem goes to engineering and or fabrication to make a solution.
Since Prusa in in the business of hardware I would think they are always looking for ways to improve their products so any problems the print production workers have is an opportunity to improve the machines next iteration.
While I do believe Prusa takes suggestions from end-users into consideration for improvements I think all of the printers they run 24/7 show them what the majority of the problems are that need to be fixed in the upcoming designs. As well as letting them test new ideas.
Hi Keith, I would love to continue this conversation! Maybe I could even include your words in a video. I need some footage or pictures to show everyone. Could you send me an email with some photographs of the place where you work. This will give my viewers something tangible to understand instead of the general principles you are talking about. It would be especially amazing if you could make it into a video with you narrating and pointing at the machines you are talking about.
just my 20sen point of view.
My father got an Idea 30years ago. to transfer hardware shop to shopping mall style.
and now Mr DIY nice hardware shop everywhere in Malaysia. but he never involve ... I feel sad every time this remind me.
Prusa got the credit because they get every one idea and invest time to work on it make it to product create brand.
and china people send you printer because want you to ads for them. Prusa do not need that. unless you got 10 time more subs.
Yeah World is unfair . I already accept the truth.
so . just do. make self happy . if got chance go All in . do not regret .
Wish you happy all time.
Thank you.
I credit Prusa with the implementation, not the idea.
You might also consider that the implementation turn around from integration to production was slightly longer than 5 months. Prusa doesn't shotgun developments.
Narcissism sucks.
Wow. Please leave the internet.
Its called a tactile measurement...
$3 from only 2.8k subscribers, thats seems like a good deal!
I don't believe that they stole your idea. This issue has been known for quite some time. Open source is a double edged sword. It allows the user community to rapidly develop ideas through the hive mind principle. It also allows anybody to use and implement those ideas. Manufacturers benefit without having to pay employees for research and development. End Users benefit by not having to pay through higher prices for those innovations. Prusa is not the bad guy here, he did not turn around and try to patent this idea or make it proprietary in any way. Prusa has benefited the 3d printing community by making everything open source for anyone to freely copy. The end result is cheap Chinese printers like the ones sitting on your desk.
Just in normal (heavy) use of one i3 MK2S I've noticed the PINDA's readings vary with temperature. (Allow a 100C heatbed to sit there for half an hour whilst the printer is in an enclosure, then start the print and the nozzle will be too high. Compensate for that and next time you print from cold it'll be too low.)
Does that mean I 'stole your idea' as well?
And you think Prusa wasn't aware of the temperature dependence of the PINDA probe? Why would they even address the problem if they weren't aware of it _being_ a real, practical problem? Prusa are very much not into adding anything unnecessary.
Do you know what open source means?
Between this and trying to charge for open source code i have unsubbed.
So i got chinese company printer in 2020. Upgraded everything, not even same printer anymore. Still gives me issues and prints max 80 mms. Last week i got an assembled Prusa MK3S+. Pulled it out of the box and printed. Best prints I ever saw. Oh, BTW, prusa slicer has the profiles for the filament, i did not have to tweak anything. So $1000 much cheaper than 350 + all the upgrades i did on other printer.
Don't ask don't get. worth a try.
How embarrassing...
Oh, my. Seems like you are mostly butthurt because Prusa released a product based on someone else idea, but that is the thing. Apparently they where the first to make a product that people can use. Apple did not invent the iPad or the smartphone. They just brought it to the market, no need to cry about it.
Wow dude... there are a lot of things that I've come up with that I think would be awesome... but after doing some research I find it has been realized, or something better exists. The key word there is research. Maybe before doing your next video, and ranting for 6 minutes on how your idea was ripped off (yet at the same time supporting you want China to do that to you) all to get a free printer, you should do your background research.