Great to learn that you are not only YA3DPY (yet another 3D print youtber) but an actual awesome engineer! Would love to see more of your engineering stuff!
Those hybrid stepper motors can generate a fair about of torque! I used a hybrid linear/ stepper motor to push a 22lb load 600k times. So Nathan has it right imo!! You go boy! Edit: I live in Lexington, about 70 miles from Hackerspace & this is the first I've heard about it! Thinking about making the drive now! 😃👍🏻
It's great if you have a part you need to have machined, or wanted to get something laser cut on a large machine. The kind of stuff you don't have laying around the house.
My workplace recently started using some of the stepper, but not a stepper motors. My understanding, they are 3 phase motors with onboard bidirectional smart speed and position control and a position encoder. We use it to spin a shaft at a desied speed and to be able to park it in a specific position.
From the very beginning I kept thinking "But what about the changing weight of the print & bed as the print goes along" but you thought of that. Nice :)
Very cool! I was initially very excited about your idea for a simultaneous multi-head polar printer, but when I started digging into it I found all the realities of polar motion systems. These motors aren't cheap, but if they can solve the steps vs circumference problem, I think it is definitely worth exploring.
Very interesting motor, the only thing that I can't agree with is you saying that it has high resolution compared to steppers. I'm building a small rotational stage with NEMA17 and gear ration 3:1 using TMC2130 and STM32 controllers and a full rotation can be done with 76800 microsteps on 128 microsteps resolution from the driver which will give angular resolution ~0.0046 degrees
I think I switched to vivid color profile instead of s-cinetone. I don’t color grade so it’s probably better this way Also the bigger space allows for some background separation and blurry background vs my smaller space
A great video would be about building a small coreXY setup with jus a large inertial mass as print head to be placed between a printer and its table, which uses an accelerometer with a digital closed loop so that you can move the inertial mass to compensate (after low pass filter) for the accelerations generated by the printer print head motion. It should almost completely remove vibrations. Surely better than the "HULA" printer feet
Have you thought about replacing each print head axis with 4 articulating arm style axis? That way each print head can reach the very center of the bed, and they can fold out of the way individually when they are not in use. It would basically be 4 SCARA arms with your rotating bed.
Can your flywheel calculation software account for the moment of inertia? If you already have the data concerning the mass being added, I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to add the radius to which the mass is being added. Adding must mass won't mean a lot without knowing how it effects the moment of inertial of the item. Thanks for sharing what you're working on. I have my doubts on how it will work but I look forward to you proving my doubts are unfounded.
Yes, just multiply the deposited mass by the distance from the center of rotation. Mass alone is meaningless, the only thing that matters is the 2nd moment of inertia measured about the axis passing through the center of the bed.
I made a joke cut away from the X1C. It's an expensive machine, so I probably wouldnt buy one, but it's available to use at the hackerspace so it's a great way to get access to one without having to purchase it yourself
mmmm... this! New respect gained sir. u earned a sub. +2 for the workspace clutter ;) may one ask why you cut the scene at the bambu printer? do i sense a beef with them perhaps
So twice or more power consumption due to needing to produce another momentum to cancel out the previous, twicw thw wwar and tear also, using elastic to dampen its force
less vibration of the entire structure might not mean less vibration on the print head, i think vibration is the least of the problem of print speed ,the liquifying temprature,flow rate \ molten state pressure,the fact that the ejecting pressure is entirely from the force of the motor pushing in the filament,so many factors affect the speed that lesser vibration might not mean so much speed gain,im not an expert ,just mentally visualizing the system..
They actually make NEMA 17 as the main version of this product, I just need the extra torque of a larger motor so I'm using a 23. www.advanced3dprinters.com/products/copy-of-a3dp-closed-loop-step-servo-drives-n17
can you put it on an open source printer like a k1max or voron? oh and show it to us, id be interested in this product if i could see it working on a consumer grade printer vs, the 4 extruder madness in the video.
I don't really understand the concept. I thought you talked about weight as being an issue but then you want to add a flywheel? Can't you just remove the speed of the inertia change with input shaping like code? Do you really need this benefit of a sudden stop? Is the reduction of the inertial mass by spreading it over time not acceptable? Is the force too large?
There are two issues with added mass. 1) it requires more torque to move. This can be addressed by making the plate thinner, using materials with a better strength to weight ratio, or adding a larger motor. The other issue is that rapid acceleration back and forth can set up resonance that can cause large structures to fail. The important equation is the definition of resonant frequency. (K/m)^0.5 Or the square root of stiffness over mass. Larger structures, assuming you use the same beams, like 40/20 aluminum extrusion, are both less stiff and more massive, so both factors are causing the resonant frequency to go down. Ideally you want the resonant frequency to be 2x higher than any excitation frequency. If you look at a printer filling out a rasterization pattern, the excitation frequency would be the inverse of the time in seconds between it changing directions. Usually this is around 10 hz on higher speed printers. Even with a very small/light load, resonance can cause huge problems for large structures.
I was gonna comment about exactly where he's at bc I was just there earlier today, but I don't wanna dox my man EDIT: didn't realize he was gonna shout us out.
That's what I'm thinking, if you have a big project you can go fire up a half dozen prints and weld some things or watch youtube videos. Then just have like 1 printer at home.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
Dude i was just there earlier. You have no clue how happy i am to see you shouting us out like that. Thank you so much.
Yeah that's pretty cool. Nothing near here like that
I'm in Lexington. Day job is in Nicholasville. Next time you're in town look me up! Lockmasters Inc.
@@helixxharpell unfortunately I'm rarely in Lexington/ Nicholasville
This place is right next to my house and I had no clue it existed. I have to check it out. Thanks and great video!
Great to learn that you are not only YA3DPY (yet another 3D print youtber) but an actual awesome engineer! Would love to see more of your engineering stuff!
Now this is some quality content Nathan ❤
Those hybrid stepper motors can generate a fair about of torque! I used a hybrid linear/ stepper motor to push a 22lb load 600k times.
So Nathan has it right imo!! You go boy!
Edit: I live in Lexington, about 70 miles from Hackerspace & this is the first I've heard about it! Thinking about making the drive now! 😃👍🏻
It's great if you have a part you need to have machined, or wanted to get something laser cut on a large machine. The kind of stuff you don't have laying around the house.
@NathanBuildsRobots Next time you're in Lexington, Dinner and Bourbon tour is on me!
My workplace recently started using some of the stepper, but not a stepper motors. My understanding, they are 3 phase motors with onboard bidirectional smart speed and position control and a position encoder.
We use it to spin a shaft at a desied speed and to be able to park it in a specific position.
WOW a real toy making shop !!! Thanks for sharing. 😀
I'm pretty sure santa works there
From the very beginning I kept thinking "But what about the changing weight of the print & bed as the print goes along" but you thought of that. Nice :)
Brillant Sir! I've been thinking about that but all my ideas were grossly over complicated. Just brilliant!
Very cool! I was initially very excited about your idea for a simultaneous multi-head polar printer, but when I started digging into it I found all the realities of polar motion systems. These motors aren't cheap, but if they can solve the steps vs circumference problem, I think it is definitely worth exploring.
We are lowering the price a little more every time we get more made . We started at 300 and now down to 225
Great project! Can you say more about the gearbox you are using?
Very interesting motor, the only thing that I can't agree with is you saying that it has high resolution compared to steppers.
I'm building a small rotational stage with NEMA17 and gear ration 3:1 using TMC2130 and STM32 controllers and a full rotation can be done with 76800 microsteps on 128 microsteps resolution from the driver which will give angular resolution ~0.0046 degrees
Nice video man. I noticed an improvement in image quality/camera. Did you get new gear? 😊
I think I switched to vivid color profile instead of s-cinetone. I don’t color grade so it’s probably better this way
Also the bigger space allows for some background separation and blurry background vs my smaller space
Great work man. Love it
You still need to accelerate the whole mass
Just add more power
Most 3D printers (speed boat oriented ones excluded) are vibration limited. It’s why there is so an obsession with input shaping.
A great video would be about building a small coreXY setup with jus a large inertial mass as print head to be placed between a printer and its table, which uses an accelerometer with a digital closed loop so that you can move the inertial mass to compensate (after low pass filter) for the accelerations generated by the printer print head motion. It should almost completely remove vibrations.
Surely better than the "HULA" printer feet
You could tell me this guy was almost any age and id believe you. quite the enigma.
Indeed, he's 68.
The best trust me bro moment that I've ever experienced
Have you thought about replacing each print head axis with 4 articulating arm style axis? That way each print head can reach the very center of the bed, and they can fold out of the way individually when they are not in use. It would basically be 4 SCARA arms with your rotating bed.
Are you volunteering to write the slicer and firmware for that?
Can your flywheel calculation software account for the moment of inertia? If you already have the data concerning the mass being added, I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to add the radius to which the mass is being added. Adding must mass won't mean a lot without knowing how it effects the moment of inertial of the item.
Thanks for sharing what you're working on.
I have my doubts on how it will work but I look forward to you proving my doubts are unfounded.
Yes, just multiply the deposited mass by the distance from the center of rotation. Mass alone is meaningless, the only thing that matters is the 2nd moment of inertia measured about the axis passing through the center of the bed.
Is that maker-space in Louisville Kentucky? I'm about 90 minutes from there.
Yes, there are some other spaces to make stuff around here too, including some with industrial waterjetting
My favorite part was that “floating couch” 😂
I made a joke cut away from the X1C.
It's an expensive machine, so I probably wouldnt buy one, but it's available to use at the hackerspace so it's a great way to get access to one without having to purchase it yourself
mmmm... this! New respect gained sir.
u earned a sub. +2 for the workspace clutter ;)
may one ask why you cut the scene at the bambu printer? do i sense a beef with them perhaps
This is input shaper with hardware instead.?
Edit:
But how do you measure the resonance and the weight /speed that the motor needs to stop vibrations
So twice or more power consumption due to needing to produce another momentum to cancel out the previous, twicw thw wwar and tear also, using elastic to dampen its force
Motor power consumption is easily offset by increased print speed and reduced power loss from the heated bed and hotend
less vibration of the entire structure might not mean less vibration on the print head, i think vibration is the least of the problem of print speed ,the liquifying temprature,flow rate \ molten state pressure,the fact that the ejecting pressure is entirely from the force of the motor pushing in the filament,so many factors affect the speed that lesser vibration might not mean so much speed gain,im not an expert ,just mentally visualizing the system..
Say.. when are you doing the unboxing video for the Qidi X-Plus4?
Qidi doesn't like me since I pooped on the X-Max 3
@@NathanBuildsRobots 🤣🤣🤣🤣
A smaller version for nema 17 stepper motors would be cool.
They actually make NEMA 17 as the main version of this product, I just need the extra torque of a larger motor so I'm using a 23.
www.advanced3dprinters.com/products/copy-of-a3dp-closed-loop-step-servo-drives-n17
They have that, it's actually the more common variant of the servos, but I needed the big beefy torque of a NEMA23 for this project
can you put it on an open source printer like a k1max or voron? oh and show it to us, id be interested in this product if i could see it working on a consumer grade printer vs, the 4 extruder madness in the video.
They are plug and play in any marlin,klipper or rrf printer that has stepper sockets or lcd output or any free pins that can be gpio
I don't really understand the concept. I thought you talked about weight as being an issue but then you want to add a flywheel? Can't you just remove the speed of the inertia change with input shaping like code? Do you really need this benefit of a sudden stop? Is the reduction of the inertial mass by spreading it over time not acceptable? Is the force too large?
There are two issues with added mass.
1) it requires more torque to move. This can be addressed by making the plate thinner, using materials with a better strength to weight ratio, or adding a larger motor.
The other issue is that rapid acceleration back and forth can set up resonance that can cause large structures to fail. The important equation is the definition of resonant frequency. (K/m)^0.5
Or the square root of stiffness over mass.
Larger structures, assuming you use the same beams, like 40/20 aluminum extrusion, are both less stiff and more massive, so both factors are causing the resonant frequency to go down. Ideally you want the resonant frequency to be 2x higher than any excitation frequency.
If you look at a printer filling out a rasterization pattern, the excitation frequency would be the inverse of the time in seconds between it changing directions. Usually this is around 10 hz on higher speed printers.
Even with a very small/light load, resonance can cause huge problems for large structures.
"I've thought of everything" 💪
Famous last words :P
I like the hair.
Louisville!
I was gonna comment about exactly where he's at bc I was just there earlier today, but I don't wanna dox my man
EDIT: didn't realize he was gonna shout us out.
Hey Nathan do U own a Prusa?
Yes, I have an MK4 with MMU
Wow $50 a month is a deal for access to all of those machines.
That's what I'm thinking, if you have a big project you can go fire up a half dozen prints and weld some things or watch youtube videos. Then just have like 1 printer at home.
@@NathanBuildsRobots instead of the five FDM and two resin printers I have at home, plus an Elegoo laser (still in the box)?
The reaction force is still there its just on the gears and not your hand.
Yes but this closes the circuit on reaction forces such that nothing leaves the motor and gearbox housing
The motor is bolted to the frame so the frame would have less vibration.
@@NathanBuildsRobots its whats the printer needs and its a great idea. Good job.
But not today 😂
🫡
This is a whole new level of content compared to (still good and honest) printer/mods reviews.
But it will lower views.