You can now PRINT PCBs! Creating a homemade PCB with the Voltera V-One PCB Printer!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2024
- Voltera V-One PCB Printer on Elektor.com: bit.ly/Voltera-more-information
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In this video I will be testing out the Voltera V-One PCB printer and create a homemade PCB version of one of my older PCB projects in order to find out whether such a PCB printer is a good replacement for proper PCB manufacturers. Along the way we will discover all the advantages and disadvantages such a printer comes with. Let's get started!
Thanks to Elektor for sponsoring this video!
Visit www.elektormagazine.com/ to read their magazines and buy electronic components.
Music:
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
Killing Time, Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com)
0:00 Introduction (Why PCBs are important!)
1:17 Introducing the PCB printer
1:55 Intro
2:42 Unpacking the PCB printer
3:19 Installing the software
3:52 Deciding on an example PCB project
4:21 Drill process
5:48 Printing the top layer
7:35 Printing the bottom layer
8:04 Adding the rivets
8:25 Soldering the components
8:51 Homemade PCB of one of my older projects
10:51 Verdict of the PCB printer - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[TH] VCT Pacific - Regular Season - สัปดาห์ที่ 4 วันที่ 2 // T1 vs ZETA | TS vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QKGUHmA6gwY/mqdefault.jpg)
I saw this and looked so cool! But when I got a quote of $4100~ It be hard to justify
True
I just can't explain the price, I bought a pcb cnc for 200$ cad and the traces are much more precise. Plus you don't needs consumables.
The price is horrendous, and even putting that aside the process is still fiddly and slow. Still, if you have the money, don't mind the hassle and want to regularly make PCBs quicker than waiting on mail order boards then I guess it's viable?
@@greatscottlab What are your thoughts on the wegstr cnc for making PCBs?
True, especially considering the fact that this thing is theoretically nothing more than a 3d printer with a different substance to print with and a drill tool.
This is where 3D Printers were 10 years ago. So I see this being really common and cheap by 2030 - maybe sooner. Hope this idea survives the embryonic stages. Great review!
Actually, sooner. You can make a 3d printer do exactly this. There are already injector extruders available, and so on... this thing isn't worth $400, let alone $4000.... Ugly finish, etc... I can get just as ugly a finish with protoboards, and for connecting surface mount components, I just run traces around and don't cross... Or, simply run thin wires and a bit of adhesive to get the same result for prototyping.
2030 no humans on earth...
@@boscovich11 Elaborate, please?
@@loleq2137 it's a joke. OP said that maybe those printers become cheap and common by 2030... loleq21 said that maybe there will be no humans on Earth by then...
@@loleq2137 Look up the (not so) Great Reset. Ogbond is either an NPC or unaware of what's going on.
You will own nothing, rent everything & be happy.
0:40 LOL! pretty cool idea, but with PCB's so cheap to have printed it makes sense to wait the week for delivery. I'm sure the price will come down within a few years though. Remember when a 3D printer cost thousands, now it's like £200 next day delivery.
It really depends on what it's slowing down.
If you've got engineers spinning their wheels waiting on a prototype PCB for a week, then it'd be worth the money. That's assuming that the company can't use traditional acid bath techniques to make prototype boards, though.
@@jeffspaulding9834 If you have engineers spinning their wheels you can also get your pcb made and delivered in a day (is quite costly aswell though)... the issue is that this can only print two layers, so for many designs it's not suitable
@@johnuferbach9166 That's a good point.
I don't work in a field that does a lot of PCB prototyping (we'll solder something on a PCB sometimes, but mostly it comes to us already assembled) so I don't really know, but I'd be interested to see how often two-sided prototypes boards are used in the industry. I know a lot of the stuff I work with is two sided, but that's because it's meant for field repairs (it's mostly through-hole for the same reason).
@@jeffspaulding9834 that's why we bought one where I work. It's completely useless, and barely functions as advertised. We just order boards on a 24h turnaround from a domestic supplier instead.
Would be fun for starting a mini business. You can still do 3d printing for profit at home but naturally you need to network a lot and bring some skills into the deal ie 3d modelling, painting and other finishing
Man...never say u are making silly youtube videos..you are creating the most valuable videos
downside: 1 week waiting time
meanwhile i wait for 2 months for parts from china
Sorry about that......
Well i wait 1 month with cheap option, i can wait less but i have to pay more, but that make it quite expensive (Before someone gonna comment that this isn't that expensive , I live in Poland with make prices-earnings ratio quite bad for me, fact that i'm 18 year old didn't help either). Of course income just like chipping time and price depend on country. But my point is, this is trade of, cheap but not fast, or fast but not cheap. But i quess you can live in place where this no option is neither cheap neither fast.
@@crusaderanimation6967 dude that’s just a freaking 3D printer. You could get a 3D printer and mod it and get a very similar result for a LOT LESS
Same
@@crusaderanimation6967 good luck mate, i kinda have the same story(19 yo)
- Holy shit this is so cool!! -
Edit after seeing price: Nevermind.
whats the price? cannot find it in the links :(
@@artemonstrick almost 4000 euros
Check out Marco reps.
It's a good channel.
It also has videos on pcb manufacture using a 3d printer and a mounted laser which would be a much more affordable option but that's secondary.
@@artemonstrick 11:05
It is worth it for a company. Imagine you order a prototype PCB and realize there it needs a change so now your entire engineering staff is getting paid while doing nothing for a week. Even rush jobs take 24 hours-2 days and cost several thousands. A company will recover the investment within the first product development cycle if not within the first week.
Among the most honest review I have seen around. Thanks for bringing up the actual sore points of this device. Even if the cost was not an issue; the problems related to no solder mask (that means you have to put that on), and that the traces are quite a problem if they are too close together; make it quite unusable for anyone that can just wait a week for professional grade PCB, and can make prototypes at home "old school".
Hi, Bro!
I saw a random guy the other day on TH-cam, and his process is intuitive.
1. He hand-sketched on the board.
2. Made appropriate drills.
3. Then he laid very very thin wire along his sketch. Then, he put that whole PCB carefully on a surface which he can increase the temperature (he used an iron box). Gradually as temperature increased, wires began to melt and the wiring thing was done.
That was cool.
For that price tag, I'm happy to keep using JLCPCB.
Lol yea
Yeah but a engeneer working at home can now make prototypes faster.
Yeah and it is super fing manual. My designs are simple enough to fit on two layers. I would need to add every via manually I would kill myself. A week is super fing good for a 4 layer assembled pcb in my opinion
This is for prototypes, not to replace pcb makers, as an engineer I can say, I have been waiting for this, I am at a point where I might have been able to make it myself, but I might just buy one to be able to do designs and repairs faster
@@trowawayacc For the cost of that machine, an actual engineer can afford to use "normal" methods at home.
GreatScott: *gets a pcb printer sent to him*
JLCPCB guys: shit
So true
Lol
Do not worry. JLCPCB will be back.
JLCPCB are much cheaper and better quality;
you had to wait and if you make a mistake you had to wait again ...
rapid protoyping is expensive, factory production is cheap
Then they watch the video till the end and sigh in relief
Balanced and fair reviews are the best advert. Voltera should be very pleased with this video.
This is a really fascinating review, very in-depth, and we learned a lot watching you use the tool! Thanks so much for taking a look at our technology! You're absolutely right that our customers are more often professional electronics engineers looking to quickly validate ideas, do rapid solder paste dispensing for SMT components on short runs of factory-fabbed boards (something you didn't really do here because you prefer hand soldering) or work with flexible/stretchable substrates where an additive approach is required. We also have a lot electronics designers looking to test/validate their own custom conductive ink formulas among our customers, because you can easily swap different cartridges of ink into the machine. As you point out, we've had a large number of universities purchase if they're looking to work with exotic substrates, or to teach the fundamentals of electronics by having students see circuit designs come together before their eyes.
In any case, this is a very fair and comprehensive review of the Voltera V-One, we will stay tuned to your channel for more! Thanks again Scott!
why havent you guys donated this printer to Scott instead of asking it back?
lower the price...
Keep on innovation, that's very good printer! Love it
@@filesopen6188 Smaller companies don't have unlimited budgets. Supporting them means later they can give out more stuff.
Sounded very interesting until it became clear it was an undeclared sponsored video. Underhand and misleading.
The quality that JLCPCB produces, really makes that a hard sell even if we ignore the price.
or any other of the cheap Chinese manufactures. But even European manufacturers are not unaffordable, neither the US ones as far as I heard.
@@uwezimmermann5427 And if you order at the premium like beta layout you can even get it delivered in like 1 day (that is kinda costly though^^)
American PCB fabs are pretty expensive compared to Chinese if you're ordering a small volume/area, usually on order of like 5-10x the cost per square inch. The advantage the US fabs have if you're in America is that you can next-day a PCB if you need one right now versus having to wait a week plus for a Chinese-fabbed board set. I have my own PCB mill that I use for R&D and farm out my PCBs to JLCPCB so I just got for cheap-and-dirty for preproduction testing.
Agreed it looks like a total pain to use, modding PCB design and messing around trimming bridging between pads. I don't see any market for this thing to be honest. I wouldn't use it even if it were free, it doesn't look at all reliable. PCB fabs are getting cheaper all the time even the ones in the US and Europe are starting to get reasonable pricing on small prototype boards these days.
@@paulround8501 and Elektor even proudly links to this video on Facebook trying to advertise this machine
facebook.com/ElektorDE/posts/3669504553127589
Electroboom: the engineer has its desk messy
GreatScott: Are you sure about that
It's because Scott is not even working, this is just entertainment for him
Guess which one is German.
I've been a fan of this channel long enough that hearing "let's get started" causes a dopamine response.
Amazing. Not just the printing, which looks fairly simple, but how they developped the entire product and interface which looks so friendly !
Great review. I’ll stick with my Bantam tools PCB Mill. It routers holes not drill and gives me easy ground plane. Plus is almost 1/2 the cost. And as you pointed out, the resistance of the conductive ink isn’t as good as copper. Thanks for a great video.
Not to mention no expensive consumables. At most the milling bits and, well, the board itself used.
Expensive consumables kill it in my opinion (as if I had the cash for it anyway hehe), and then that special solder used is just the cherry on top.
If you get copper rivets, you can make much betterr quality PCBs than this at home. You can make a UV curing station and mask the PCBs too. And for the rest of the price, you can buy tons of gold for gold plating xd.
@@tunahankaratay1523 You mean grams of gold. :P
@@rimmersbryggeri I mean for that price I could get you megatons.
No prices on their site for "Bantam tools PCB Mill" and their software has a subscription. "Bantam Tools Milling Machine Software Annual Subscription"
$199.00. No thank you..... How can you claim 1/2 the cost? (FYI their CNC version is $3,999.00.....)
0:41...reminds me of all those stock images of people "soldering" , like the ones holding the hot end and a tip the size of an aeroplane touching random bits of motherboards.
Or trying to use one of those huge old soldering guns to work on a pcb.. lol
@@Helyx525 Yea lemmi just get my 300w gun here and watch me remove this 0402, yup its gone and lord knows what all those other bits did because they're gone too.
The knowledge I have gathered from yt in my earlier years is helping me sail through my ece degree. Thanks a lot !
'expensive' ? I agree.
'silly' youtube videos? Absolutely not. Your channel is very helpful
No bro your videos are not silly, this is one of the most informative channel in you tube,and I love it ❤️
Oh when I saw the video title, I was worried that you broke up with JLCPCB 😭
Nope. There will be more videos with JLCPCB as the sponsor. But you know, they are more ways to create PCBs ;-)
Same
@@greatscottlab Yes I have been making PCB at home for many years, yes it takes time and it's not very professional, but it is much better than this stupid thing :)
If you can read between the lines, this is an AD for J.....PCB
The 3d printing is not an options, no through hole, multi layer?, solder mask?
Thumbs up for honesty. I also agree in that this is best suited for companies + universities
I have had mine for 6 months or so. I am happy with it. getting good results (i.e ones that dont short) takes some trial and error. Although it can be used to print whole PCBs, that is what JLC is for, I use it for printing bits of a PCB - checking footprints - debugging stuff.
The team are super nice - but 4k is a serious investment as well.
This still seems pretty promising! I'm sure there are other ways to go about printing traces, but even this design could also be some sort of typical 3D printer mod. For example, not so much printing 'traces' but laying out whole wires of some sort.
This is so exciting and impressive. The price actually isn’t that bad given that this is such a new company/product. If this is one of their first products....that’s absolutely amazing.
I personally will hold off on getting one of these until they can make something precise enough to make the kind of PCBs that I usually make (ie. 0402’s components, QFN/BGA, fine pitch stuff basically). They’d need some way of applying a solder mask for sure.
I want to go into PCB printing for undergraduate students in a developing country. Do you have any advice of cheap machine I can purchase?
When i was 15 years old we made our own PCBs in School! it was part of the electronics class... this was over 16 years ago!!
Your TH-cam videos are NOT silly! They are wonderful!! Keep up the great work! :-)
For people who want actually professional pcb at home: just invest into uv curable photoresist and solder mask, and a decent quality laser printer for negatives and that's it. I recently started it and even myself is surprised how good the quality is :)
Absolutely agree! Even with a cheapo $80 laser printer and some crappy 50c transparent film I can get features small enough for QFP48 packages without much trouble. Great for single prototype boards before committing to overseas manufacturing
I used to do my pcb's at home for 10 years before I got tired of it and switched to professional manufacturers. Sure it was cheaper and quicker, but was too much of a hassle.
I did double sided
I was getting better looking results with a CDR-pen and bottle of ferric chloride over 20 years ago :)
While I wait for the open source version to adapt to my prusa, I'll continue milling pcb's with my cnc.
Friendship with JLCPCB ended, Elektor is my new best friend
Good and honest proof of concept... Thanks! I remember once in college we created a pcb in the lab and we used tons of steps. I don't even remember them now...lol
GreatScott: "...me who makes silly videos..."
Me: NO! I'm learning here!
Thanks for the honest review. Given I can make a PCB in roughly 2-3 hours at home and not have to wait for or buy consumables, I don't see this as a good product, even in an educational environment. Hell, when I helped my instructor in high school make the boards for the class we used the photoresist method which was quite quick anyhow, plus no limit on PCB dimensions.
How do you make yours?
@@ameliabuns4058 Currently with pcb software, a laser printer and dextrin coated paper. There's a ton of info if you search the web. JLC would produce better results though.
Silly TH-cam videos? Scott! Your videos have taught me more than anywhere else and has inspired me to learn electronics! So thank you!
I haven't created any PCB board in the past and I think it's just for the happy few that love to do just that. Nice video, very informative.
GreatScott: I am returning the PCB Printer
JLCPCB: *sigh* of relief
a real bargain - if they had offered it back then in 1999
4000$!?!?!?!
@@leadergames0661 I guess, because in 1999 there were no easy and cheap ways of getting custom PCBs. Nowadays, also it takes a week, JLCPCB and such are just too affordable for everyone that it would make sense to buy this printer!
At this point you could probably rig up a cheap 3d printer to do solder. Probably wear through the nozzles insanely fast, but it could work.
@@KertaDrake You would need a pretty impressive hottend for that.
Most cheap ones are made of copper, aluminium or something similar with these you would risk that it amalgamates with the hot tin.
So you would need a hottend and nozzle that can reach up to 300 degrees C and be made of something like stainless steel.
But it probably is possible yea
@@lm6036 The standard material for hotends is brass. Better ones can be made out of stainless steel and even ruby in some cases.
I have a lot of experience working with the voltera and the nscrypt 3d printers from an internship. The voltera is very nice for printing on flexible substrate and can tolerate using a variety of approved and non-approved inks. You can make your own inks that have properties you want and you can load them into the voltera using lurelock connections.
Very nice and objective evaluation! I agree, it makes sense for anyone or any business that MUST have pcb done in a few hours. For us hobbyists, we can wait a week and get solder mask and tons of vias, without having to punch rivets.
though punching rivets seemed the easiest part of the process
"that you can never solder them onto a PCB and use them" - laughs in Louis Rossmann
We are not talking about pcb (printed circuit board). It is litle different
I tried photo etching PCB designing..it worked great and also cost efficient for those tiny smd parts circuits .....for price of 4000usd it's hard to afford...I am saving money for almost a year to buy a good 3d printer....
Your youtube videos aren't silly, they good quality learning content
You keep proving you are really great. Scott!
A problem with the approach of using rivets in place of plated through holes is that the thermal expansion of the PWB material will eventually crack the solder joints. We tried this approach at an electronics manufacturer that I worked at in the 1980s.
I think the price would be acceptable if they added pick and place.
Yes
If it could do auto-riveting, board flipping, solder-paste dispensing, flying probe test, pick-n-place, included an oven, and flying probe uC programming, it would be really cool. Though I doubt using ink is really the right approach. Using a more traditional etching process with a laser or something similar would be much better in my opinion. You could totally sell a machine that took in parts, blank boards, and spat out fully functional and programmed 2-layer boards ready for testing. Probably could sell that for $20k. But until you're at that point, I just don't see the value proposition compared to the Chinese board houses.
... and filled the blind vias for you, and added a tool for extruding on the hole walls and curing it there (with a pin sticking out the middle of dispenser to keep the hole open). The board would need to be heated for that so that the ink on hole walls would cure so that the head could move to the next hole without disrupting current one.
… and used a smaller nozzle, and had the ink stick less to the nozzle…
In other words: this is good for proof of concept and for someone’s pet niche application where the current resolution and process would work unchanged. For most other people with money for it, this seems like a waste of time though. I wouldn’t be able to use this even if it was given to me for free.
OTOH, a sturdy CNC with total component cost in the same price range would have immediate use. I could run two boards in parallel.
CNC is also great for doing controlled impedances on thin two layer boards, or even 4+-layer boards if you can press the stack yourself (takes a press, among other things).
On a CNC, you can tweak the trace width with the VNA plugged into the circuit, and do trim runs until it’s within a fraction of an Ohm, if you want it that way (not normally needed). You can also do EM-model-free feature routing, where instead of using very expensive software that still takes you only so far, you run a shape refining algorithm that modifies the shape incrementally to produce the exact response you want - and both the VNA and a TDR output can be used for that. You can do this with other components already in the circuit as well, and after the dust is blown off, you power it up, g-code generator takes a frequency and time domain sweep, circuit power is removed, and the tool goes back for another refining run to bring it closer to what you need. You could design some very complex filter responses and feedback paths that way, with rather simple technology, without slaving yourself away to EM tool vendors (OK in a big business setting, not so much in small startups and for advanced hobbyists).
This can easily pay for a very fancy CNC just in the cost saved by not paying a fortune for EM modeling software, and for the speed of iterations.
A bit of ingenuity can really take CNC techniques way further than is typically talked of. I’m sure plenty of companies with clever people may do this already and keep mum for competitive advantage; but I just do it for hobby stuff and would love it if some manufacturer just took the idea and made a cheap widely copied machine + software combo that can do the sort of CNC you don’t see done on PC boards. Commoditizing this stuff would be more than awesome. I only mess with it because I have to - otherwise I couldn’t play with microwave circuits so easily, and am not interested in product development in this area (life is too short - can’t do everything). I like physical experimenting too much - dealing with accurate numerical EM models for a hobby is not my piece of cake.
So, all in all, this is not a very innovative product, because it does something that 99% of people who do these things can think of in like half a minute, and it doesn’t even do it particularly well (about anyone in this field could take it to this field - but that normally in business setting is a proof of concept, not something you dump onto the market with fingers crossed). Instead, maybe that company should focus on ideas that
Definitely a great tool for rapid prototyping before committing to a final design. Wish I had access to such a device when I was an EE. :)
I like the company's that give you a visual guide.. I have never been a book learner.. I can do it but it has always been easier for me doing hands on learning.. once I have learned the basics then the book is of value to me.. Dang.. but that is how it goes in new markets the first prototypes are never exactly right but they usually get better from there.. Great show! carry on!
Now this is real PRINTED circuit board
Great video. I learned more from you than my 4 years in college. You would make a great college professor
What college did you go to?
Thanks very much for the Elektor discount offer.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers
fascinating! I know some one built a similar device with a tracing pen and a plotter, but the combo of the drill and printer is really nice! looks a little messy though, gessing it requires a bit of cleanup
Should have started with the 4000 euros, I could have saved 12 mins.
i didnt know people watched this channel for the product instead of the content
@Lumumba B. But China made QC ...... Since you don't need many of them.....I would prefer Quality over price.......
It's interesting to watch nonetheless.
Designed and assembled in Canada?!? We still make stuff?
Chinese factory mistyping "made in China".
_Toyota and Honda would like to know your location_
Yes. Savage makes some rifles in Canada. :) (Savage MkII).
Made in Canada with globally sourced parts.
AKA parts made in China then screwed together in Canada 😂
@@dylan-nguyen assembled in Canada, so they basically add the powercord and put the fuse in. 😬
Okkaaaaayyyy... A good thing for those electronics students/engineer/enthusiast with enough money to buy this PCB printer. We will stick to DIY PCB GreatScott.
11:46 silly youtube videos? No man,your videous are exelent.One of the best ones.You and DIY Perks are awesome.Nice voice,great explanation(script and visual)....TH-cam is a ocean of silly videos but yours are great,not silly.
Me when i see the title:
Excuse me what the what?
It is crazy ;-)
@@greatscottlab Yeah :)
"This is awesome, i'm gonna buy one" looks at the price... "Yeah okay maybe not"
Thanks a lot.
Their ad shows like it gives pcb as neat as commercially manufactured
Fascinating! Being able to create your own PCBs at home has been a nerd dream since at least the 1970s
I think we need a DIY or buy on this one
DIY would be stupidly easy. Nothing about this is sophisticated at all, just the changeable tool platform is a bit unique in that it uses pin to pad as a connection method, and that the bed works as a workpiece clamp and the curing heater. The only other non-standard thing is the screw-based plunger extruder for the ink vial, but this isn't anything difficult to implement. The drill itself is so unsophisticated that it uses a literal RC hobby motor to run it.
Take any typical 3D printer, add a clamping system to hold a PCB blank to the bed, and have a a changeable tool system. The plunger extruder would work off the filament extruder's functionality but at a different feed rate depending on the gearing between motor and plunger. The drill could probably run off the extruder's functionality as well, but implement it as a switched function where a constant feed rate has the drill as 'on,' and stopping the feed rate switches it to 'off,' with a simple amp to run the DC motor. You could probably even upgrade the tool changer from a manual system to an automatic system.
The only sophisticated part that would need work is the probe function, as most closed-source printers won't integrate it nicely unless a probing system is already provided, resulting in the probe being entirely separate and integrating at the design software level, or there's a chance more open-software products would allow it, with open-source platforms being the most open to this modification. But with that said, is probing actually necessary? Most 3D printers are going to be level for proper printing anyways, and the clamping system should be sophisticated enough to keep relative flatness of parts, even with the PCB floating in relation to the bed; even hobby milled standoff clamps should be toleranced well enough as long as the hobby machinist knows what they're doing. As for positioning purposes, I would think a laser pointer would be a valid replacement, and would be an entirely passive tool.
This only leaves curing. I'd recommend and oven as no typical 3D printer is going to have a bed that safely achieves the 210°C requirement. Heated beds for ABS only really achieve >100°C due to going above the glass transition temperature of 100°C isn't really recommended. A heated bed that'll go to 210°C is a modification that is possible, but at that point it's probably safer to use an oven due to burn hazards on an open surface.
The only big issue is the consumable that is the ink. I'm not sure how many suppliers there are for this stuff. Though I do wonder how similar it is to solder paste that board manufacturers use for SMD soldering; seems like it'd be similar stuff, high silver lead free paste, just the 'ink vials' use a much finer syringe tip. There may also be some kind of etching agent, or something in the reaction while baking, that adheres the paste to the fiberglass of the PCB; though I'm not sure how soldering paste interacts with a raw PCB without solder mask, as SMD soldering always has a solder mask on the etched PCB, there may not be a need for any method of adhering the paste to the board. The paste is the big unknown, and the cost of the Voltera pastes makes an alternative solution worth looking into.
On the topic of conductive consumables, we've also seen actual conductive ink, as in pen ink, and we've seen various forms of filament that're metallic and conductive once you bake off the plastic. I don't think finding a product between the two would be all that difficult, especially as solder pastes already exist in various recipes. Unfortunately, Voltera doesn't list the metallic recipes for their inks, though they do for their various solder pastes. All of Voltera's products also require refrigeration for an 8 month shelf life, which makes this entire system even more expensive given that each vial is only 2ml.
Only thing left is the rivet tool, probably the least sophisticated tool here, as hollow rivets have been a thing for a long time and are mostly understood in how they work.
At the end of the day, the conversion is simple, with a simple manual tool changer, and simple code hacks to make it all work, with the biggest issue being the cost of OEM solder pastes and the need to find an affordable alternative. All of this is also true for converting a CNC mill, though you'd need to make more drastic changes to how the tool functions to get that platform to function correctly, as exchanging extruder type A for extruder type B is fairly simple and could easily be a 1:1 exchange in coding, but adapting a mill would be like adapting the mill to a 3D printer first before adapting it to a PCB printer. All of this is easily achievable, it's just the damned ink that makes the DIY project expensive.
But does anyone really need a PCB printer? PCB printing services are extremely affordable, with some having decent turn around times, not to mention those services can do everything a PCB printer can plus more, considering those services can also do multi-layer boards. Even DIYing a double sided board isn't that difficult, though chemicals involved may produce safety hazards, but a simple masking and etching setup is extremely cheap in comparison to a machine with a high cost consumable ink. While a cool project, I just don't see the point of it. Need a prototype board? This is what we have perfboard for, or even better, just use a breadboard until an order from a PCB service arrives. There is literally no logical explanation for PCB ink printers to exist, other than being an expensive toy for people with more money than brains. I can't find a single use case where this machine has any advantage over what we already have and already use; especially when the consumable has a shelf life that requires you to actually produce a decent volume of boards within that time frame.
@@xaytana It's so stupidly easy that I wasn't even able to read through your comment 💩
@@xaytana Right you can just get a simple CNC mill from eBay for $100-200 and add parts on to do what this thing does for less than 1/10th of the cost. Conductive ink is nothing new they aren't the first and it is cheap not only is it cheap you can make it yourself at home.
In which high expectations meet the extruder of disappointment and rivets of despair.
Awesome solution for prototyping or making one-off circuit boards. Bit on the expensive side, but it saves a lot of time, which makes it worth it.
This kind of videos are so relaxing.
home made cnc milling is a way better solution, better result and much lower cost.
Hey!
I want to make one.
Can you help or send some references?
@@manaspange3815 use a 3d printer as the Start, there are some that can Do Laserengrave 3d print and also milling.
But i didnt have one that can Do all of this But i build my own.
Print a simple Motor/ dremel holder.
Look at some diy cnc.
I disagree, fiberglass dust is not a joke ;)
Some TH-camrs are using Universal G code sender.
Is it good to use? With an arduino
@@manaspange3815 Mostly Printed CNC is a good project reference, more about here: docs.v1engineering.com/mpcnc/intro/
You do realize that using the Voltera to dispense solder paste and use it for reflow as intended, would have avoided your soldering mistakes all together?
So I guess this device is good for surface-mount components. But for through-hole components, a mill is better suited.
Not ready for prime time but thanks Marco and there is nothing "silly" about your videos... Definitely my favourites.
A hint for anyone who is irritated by the ad-interruptions; Fast forward to the end of the video and then go back to the beginning. The ad's are wiped out (works for me every time) 😎
I've always respected Elektor since starting in electronics as a hobby many years ago. Was a subscriber for a couple of years but found I didn't have enough spare time to justify it. Anyway, liked the video and that printer looks great! Thanks :-))
*He's Evolving*
Try QFN/TQFP packages you will see the surprise :D
I used to make homemade PCBs before I started having them manufactured. I used the pre-photosensitized boards and developer/ferric chloride. But I always hated drilling the holes! Today, I’m designing PCBs that would have been impossible as a homemade hobbyist
Whoah!!!
I remember making a PCB buy masking off the copper and then sticking it in an acid etch tank.
Awesome!
12:22 "Ink" type "Muscular Mermaid". I so though that was going to be the name of the next version of Ubuntu Linux.
It's Aquaman, also known as waterboy.
@@tiborklein5349 Aquagirl maybe.
unfortunately, the Elektor discount code does not work ("The coupon code you entered is not valid or has expired.")
Try again in a couple of hours or tomorrow :-)
@@greatscottlab thanks, tried again next day and discovered that unfortunately the discount code works just for an english membership (via the linked .com-Site), not for a membership in German. Elektor support confirmed that, no discount for those who want to read in German.
Jetzt geht's doch auch für die deutschen Fans! Auf der Seite oben rechts auf die Deutsche Flagge klicken und schon geht's! - Danke an den Elektor-Support und an GreatScott!
this is pretty sweet. i feel like we are 5 or 10 years away from being able to fully develop and manufacture entire electronics projects entirely in house on an amateur hobbyist budget. now we need to figure out a way to print electronic displays at home.
"Designed and assembled in Canada"... Cheers from Toronto!
I wouldn't pay £300 for that printer with that quality finish let alone £3000+.
Thing is way over engineered. You see how thick the metal is supporting the head? I mentioned it in another comment, but there's a reason a lot of 3D printers prices started dropping when they realized they could get 99% good results with a material as ubiquitous as extruded aluminum. Strong Juicero vibes from this machine.
Pretty amazing tool for a school science lab though - get everyone to design their own PCB... which you can then literally have printing in the corner!
Great Scott! Cool video! PCBs are more than just connections - for some time now. But, for clarity, what you said is ok!
Elektor was popular even in Brazil!
After watching this great review , i will stick to my old PCB mil Router
Thanks Scott !!
oh, that looks cool, that might be something i would be interested in buyi...
* Sees that its $4000 *
* chokes on sandwich *
il come back in 5 years
honestly there's still so much manual work too. So many component switches, long wait time for the curing, having to rivet the vias....seems really rough.
Well indeed it seems expensive for individuals, but I can imagine 5-10 prototyping nerds (who live close to the each other) sharing the procurement and maintenance of one unit.
“For me, who just creates silly TH-cam videos [...]”
I wonder if GreatScott! knows just how life altering and helpful these videos are? I have learned a lot from them!
Seems like a good prototyping tool. Good for one shot DIY projects.
i would love to see this technology get cheaper so I can finally not have to use giant breadboards as because the printer looks similar to a modified 3d printer i think it will take just a few years ( 2025 - 2033 )to get reasonably cheaper
We will see :-)
Just etch the PCBs. Cheap and easy
@@tobimai4843 that's what I do since the early '70s and it works great for me!
The printer would become cheap and easy to get, if the concept was succesfull. But the main problem lies in the conductive inks. These have been around for decades and didn't get cheaper by any means, ever, mostly for the expensive resources needed.
PCB manufacture with a few weeks turnaround is affordable now
They didn't even let you keep the thing?!
Like he said at the end. Go watch again :)
Thanks always from korea.
I am soooooo envious I dont have this when I was into electronics years ago!
Great demo video, thank you. I was very interested in this printer until I saw the horribly poor quality result. Maybe good for extremely simple boards, but if you're doing enough to warrant a PCB printer you're probably not always doing super simple designs. After seeing what it did with his design, I shudder to think how it'd print out even a simple 32 or 48 pin mcu design. Add the price tag to that and this is just not for prime time.
Having to buy proprietary consumables is an instant red flag. Especially for that price.
It really wouldn't be that hard to make something similar for a considerably lower price. ODrives could give the accuracy and precision, or use a powerful laser with a galvo system to engrave a design onto a PCB that has been covered with something to resist etchant.
I'm using PCB proto boards, I solder the components and sets of double row male headers, and wire wrap the connections. It's quite fast and reliable.
I really like that this sort of thing is in development and I'm sure that someday it'll be affordable and as effective as etched or routed copper. That said, this is not that someday, and other simpler methods still win out even for those of us that are strictly DIY all the way. I use a method I found on the Internet, which is to print the art onto typical magazine or photo paper, but instead of ironing, wet the art with a mix of isopropyl and acetone, and then press it hard to the very thoroughly cleaned copper. It works just like ironing but doesn't need heat at all. Let it sit for a bit to gas out, then just rinse and peel like always, and etch the result in HCl + H2O2. Very easy, very effective.
This printer is more expensive then the ultimate jbc soldering station
I think you missed the main point of keeping board development in house which is to protect your intellectual property.
We have one in our lab. It's nothing like the PCBs you get from JLCPCB and the ink is pricy. It can print on flexible substrates and that is really handy. Prototyping flexible electronics can be costly, and while Voltera can't do fine pitch, is a great prototype tool.
thanks for giving the link to previous video in description as well.
i have seen so many people which dont give the videos link in description and since for some reason the "i-button" is not shown to me, it used to result in a super frustrating experience.
"You can now PRINT PCBs!"
Ah yes, great! Only spend $4000 so that you don't have to wait a week for your packages.
Neat product but it's waaaayy to pricy to justify for 99% of your average DIY projects or similar...
For a few projects sure, but this is like saying "Oh you don't want to spend $4,000 for a CNCmill" or "$4,000 for a used Lathe" If you have enough projects, the tool will be worth it. And once you have the tool, you have the ability to do more projects. Although, this one, probably not worth it until there are non proprietary consumables.
@@mzaite Yes sure, if you need the volume it will pay for itself. But like I said this is such a niche product that probably 90%+ viewing this video don't have 4k for it or a cnc mill or whatever laying around. It's a bit far fetched you know.
This product is kinda dumb, in the same time this takes you can print your circuit on a transparent film, expose a photosensitive PCB with UV, develop it and etch it with ammonium persulfate or ferric chloride.
Or alternatively, you could put a copper clad PCB into a CNC milling machine and mill away all unwanted copper with a small tungsten carbide bit.
Sarcasm at its fullest
Wow. What an incredible idea.
My uni bought one of these. They are very usefull for fast (in comparison instant) prototyping. However you do have to treat ground planes differently.
The software is amazing and student proof. Not sure if they fixed it in the mean time, but you can't skip the heating fase on double sided prints. We have an external oven that can heat way faster would save about an hour.
If you do get one, get extra spare nozzles.