Sound for Video Session: Hiding Lavaliers On & Under Shirts with Rycote Stickies and Overcovers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2017
- If you're interested in learning how to record and post process dialogue sound for video, or learn to get the most from your audio recorder, please have a look at my courses available at school.learnlightandsound.com
This week we cover a couple of ways to hide lavalier microphones under a button placket of a shirt, or on a shirt with a furry wind cover.
Links to gear we discussed or used to record this session:
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Rycote Stickies Advanced - New adhesive which is stronger, hypoallergenic, and does not leave residue (Square):
B&H: bhpho.to/2fK2S6d
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Rycote Stickies Advanced (Circular):
B&H: bhpho.to/2x8FyGG
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Rycote Overcovers Advanced (you can reuse the furry covers, stickies are one-time use. Available in black, beige, gray, and white):
B&H: bhpho.to/2fKbCsN
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3M Transpore Tape:
Amazon: amzn.to/2kg3Ybn
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Uni-solve - wet wipes to clean lavalier microphones and remove adhesive residue
Amazon: geni.us/cZZSflG
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Voice Technologies VT500 Lavalier Microphone (This is my favorite lavalier for production recording at the moment):
B&H: bhpho.to/2x8nxZ2
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Sanken COS-11D Lavalier Microphone (one of the most commonly used lavaliers by professional sound mixers/engineers):
B&H: bhpho.to/2wESwL2
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Copyright 2017 by Curtis Judd
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
The little details of putting a lav on are rarely talked about so thank you!
I use wardrobe to place the lavs on female talent.
Watched this 3+ times in the last few weeks as I build out my lav mic setup, THANK YOU. So helpful
Happy recording! 👍
Curtis is the best. Respect this human.
Thanks Franklyn!
Curtis Judd you are extremely welcome. I send everyone in our film company to subscribe. You’re a great person so when you explain things it is organic and non bias. I purchased the SD 10T because you got it. Loved the review. Thank you
This was a REALLY informative video! Blessed me. I feel like I could actually get some good lav sound now.
Glad it helped. Happy recording!
thank you for the effort and the sharing. i have always used viper clips and tie tacks. i am so glad to find out that adhesives have gotten better to the point where clipping on is not sop. thank you for the effort and the sharing. i am an appreciative subscriber. thumbs up.
Thanks!
Fantastic video Curtis! Big help for helping me prep for an upcoming shoot! Thanks so much boss!
Thanks and best wishes on your shoot.
Entirely other Channel I didn't know about! Subscribed
Welcome to the secret channel!
@@curtisjudd that's funny because that's literally all I thought of last night, "did I stumble onto the supersecret channel?" it can't I've seen some of the videos already, can it?
Excellent as always Curtis. Helpful advice and practical demonstrations. In my experience when working with non-professionals one has to be VERY careful when placing lavaliers so that the capsule and/or cable can be hidden. This is especially true in the UK since some high-profile inappropriate behaviours cases over the last few years. It is,rightly, even more sensitive with children - ie under-16s. With children I always ensure another adult known to the child is present and I seek permission before touching any part of their body. I'll frequently tell the child or 'known adult' what I want them to do and stand back, looking away if appropriate until the mic connector reappears from under the clothing! With females I'll adopt a similar "This is what I'd like you to do..." strategy. Those well-used to being 'wired' simply tell you to get on with it and more or less ignore you while you do it. Of course, that still means that one must be ultra polite, ultra discreet and ultra careful!
+Mike Stranks all good points, thanks Mike!
Awesome comment, being aware of personal space does help in knowing that you're going to be breaking that personal space and announcing that as you're entering into the conversation.
I like your clear and concise information around minors, I went looking for this information as I was hired to work with a School Musical. and surprise we rented wireless mics ear worn thankfully. so I literally jumped into the deep end. It was just me and the music teacher for most of it and a handful of helpers that came in and out.
Having another adult in the room is a must. I also got the wonderful experience of getting dragged along with my parents to Boy Scout leadership training, we also met in the Catholic Church which they required us to do their program as well.
Haha, I had a shoot this morning so I got up, figured I should brush up on mic placement since I haven't need to do it in a while. So, as always first place I look is your channel and what do you know? You just posted exactly what I needed. Used the rycotes between the shirt and the jacket and it turned out pretty good, but I think I would have gotten noise if the talent hadn't been sitting still. Thanks for this!
Glad it helped Matt! Yes, I often still get clothing noise when people move. As long as their clothing moves, layers in particular, you'll get clothing rustle noise. Taping to both layers definitely helps, though.
That's funny I was watching another video and said I should brush up on that too I wonder if he's done a video, lol
A nickle - quarter size loop taped a does a lot to isolate microphonic cable noise. I can't explain how it works but it does wonders.
👍
I´ve used these adhesives in a couple of feature films here in Brazil. We're big fans of the product as well.
👍
Fala João, beleza? Comprou aqui no Brasil mesmo ou direto de fora?
Abraço!
Felipe Pacheco Cara, quem comprou foi a equipe de produção, haha, então não sei detalhes. Mas eles importaram sim.
Brilliant!
Thanks Keith.
Curtis Judd I d meant to add , answers exactly what I’d asked you previously . Great .
Hey Curtis, I've just purchased the Rode Lavalier + based on my budget and your excellent videos - great results on my first try. Just wondering - in all your examples there is no foamie, whereas the Rode instructions recommends leaving theirs on the mic at all times. Does the absence of the foamie improve the sound when recording indoors?
Hi, it depends. First, the foam covers are really only for use when you're not hiding the mic under clothing since that just creates more friction noise. Foam mainly diffuses moving air (in the form of wind or air from the talent's mouth). This will reduce plosives - the sound you sometimes hear when someone speaks the letters P or B or T into a microphone at close distance. The foam covers can also slightly reduce the amount of high frequency sound so if you're recording someone with a particularly sibilant voice (the sizzling sound when they say the letter S), using the foam can help to reduce that slightly. I hope that helps!
Hi Curtis! Thanks as always for the helpful video. I was curious if you had any techniques for hiding a lav on an actor wearing a plain T-Shirt? I've generally used moleskin and attached it to the actors sternum area, but for actors who are quite hairy, or shots where movement causes the shirt to rub against the capsule, would you happen to have any advice?
Hi Chris, I would probably try to place the mic a little higher on the chest and make sure it is also taped to the shirt and skin so that the fabric doesn't rub against the mic. Hiding lavs seems like a never-ending process of learning and being creative. :)
@@curtisjuddClever idea.
Hi Curtis! I found this video very helpful, thanks for your work! I own two VT, the 500 and 506 and I use them for ENG work but last week I had a lot of trouble with the 506, in which it rustles a lot, every little movement of the talent was caught in the radio and not usable.. I use the little rubber mount, the same as you, and I place it with tape underneath the third button but as I said, it gave me a big headache. It is true that the shirt was probably not cotton, but would you give me any advice? Did you not get a lot of rustle, movement when it was mounted there?
Thanks!
Hi Javi, thanks. It depends on so many factors. The fabric type, how much the talent moves, and probably lots of other factors seem to impact how much rustle one picks up. More recently, I've been mounting the mic underneath the shirt in the sternum area with generally better results.
A very essential video for everyone placing lav mics.
I've often used the gaff tape triangle adhesion method, but sometimes the gaff tape comes loose. Where did you get the rubber mic holder for the VT500? Mine did not come with one and could not find it on BnH. Thank you.
Hi, thanks! My copy came with it: bhpho.to/2zyUfAo But like you, I'm not seeing anywhere to buy the mic holder separately. And their website seems to have a broken link for the accessories. I'll email and ask where they're available.
thank you so much!
I use the plastic holder for a Rode smartlav. I cut a small length of rubber band, wrap it around the capsule of my Countryman B2d, and insert it in the large end of one of the holes in the plastic holder. Then using a toothpick, I push on the rubber band until it is snug at the small end of the hole.
Hello Curtis. I always love your videos and been following you for a while. I am in the process of purchasing Tram TR50. However, it requires 1.5 VDC power. I have tascam dr 10L. Does the power bias in dr 10L enough to power the tram tr50? Or should I get another recorder? What would you recommend. Thanks for the help.
Hi Ramil, I'm not sure on the exact specs of the power provided by the Tuscan DR-10L, but it should supply at least 1.5V DC.
GREAT VIDEO! :) When you use the Sanken with the Rycote stickies, do you tend to use it without a capsule (as in this video) or are there situations where the capsule (as with the other lav in this video) is more useful?
Thanks. When hiding a lavalier under clothing, I usually leave the cover off.
@@curtisjudd Thx!
Hi! I noticed that you almost always place the lav mic under 3rd (including collar) button counting from the top of the shirt. Intuintively one would like to place it as close to the mouth as possible. For instance "one buton" higher… Has your choice of placement of the mic something to do with the convienience/ergonomics or is it acoustically better place?
Hi Pawel, there is a bit of a sound shadow under the chin so for most cases, I find it sounds a little better at around the 3rd button. This is just a starting place. It differs in every situation. Often, it makes more sense to put the mic off to one side of the body a bit more so you can get it closer to the mouth and out of the sound shadow.
Tip, in our community TV studio we have sony mics with the large attached almost 6 inch barrel. before starting to put them on talent I will hold the Barrel in my hand to warm it up as I walk up so it's not quite as cold going down the shirt if I have to do that.
I will also try and give them the prior warning that it might be cold!
Discretion, politeness and etc, we get a lot of talent that has never been on camera before.
Oh and it also helps to have other teem members that you can rely on if you feel better handing off the assignment.
I also did a school play with 4-6 year olds? Pre Middle School, there's another awkward I need to put mic on your moment.
I did a bit of TH-cam searching on the subject prior to the event and it's not really mentioned what is required when micing up Talent.
I can't help thinking about the alternative ways to read that 1st sentence well writing it with a straight face trying to avoid the pitfalls of language.
Good idea to warm up the power barrel!
@@curtisjudd I usually joke that I want to get a warmer to put them in as well, as the building is usually quite cold until we turn on the heat when we get there.
I’m really finding I am compromising the sound of the lapel mic every time I hide it under clothing, also I am getting loads of chest rumble, it’s poss I am placing it too close to chin?
Invariably I end up using the boom channel with noise and reverb reduction.
It is an art which requires a lot of practice. It will generally not sound anywhere as good as a boom in most situations.
any chance you could post links to the finished video's?
Hi doubledark2, Unfortunately the corporate piece I referred to in the video here never saw the light of day. I've found that a lot of shirts will still pick up a lot of nearby clothing rustle when I use the technique here. But here are some more recent pieces where I mounted the mic under my shirt: th-cam.com/video/U6Axg0iP6wg/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/yasDkVW1Pr8/w-d-xo.html
Know this is old(er)...but is the voice tech still your fav lav mic?
Still one of my favorites, yes. Also like the Countryman B6 and DPA 4160.
Greetings, very good recommendations, I have the vt500 from voice technology but I really can't find how to use it, it's very difficult for me to hide it without making noise from the wardrobe. I'm only using it for interviews where I can put it on the outside with its clip and I've tried everything the shapes but it's almost impossible for me to hide it
I find I have to position the mic so that it doesn't rub against fabric. It seems to work best when I put it in a place where the fabric doesn't move as much. For women, I often clip the mic on the bra behind the strap between the cups and that works well in most cases. For men, in the sternum where the pectoral muscles keep the shirt a little distance away from the mic often works.
Thanks so much
you mentioned the project with the older women. do you have a link to hear what the recording sounds like?
Sadly, that video never made it to the internet. Not sure why, but looks like the company changed their minds. Fortunately, the production company (my friend) and I still got paid.
@@curtisjudd Mind linking to another piece that used that mic? If you have one available. Thanks
@@FoolsErrandFilms Yes, that's the Voice Technologies VT-500 which we reviewed here with audio samples: th-cam.com/video/9c74PsslcOk/w-d-xo.html
Hi Curtis, was there a reason for not using a boom on these productions?
Oh, I boomed as well. For most paying jobs they request both. They'll most likely use the boom tracks in most cases.
that's what I thought you would have done. Would it not be easier to fly two mics overhead recoding to separate channels (in case one mic goes bad) or am I missing something ?
Two mics at the end of a boom pole get really heavy really quickly. I was booming since the talent were moving around. So a lavalier and a boom worked out as the right combination.
Hi I'm just wondering if the set up at 9:00 makes any ruffling sound from the vest?
It depends, you have to fine-tune the location. Generally with the fur cover, no.
@@curtisjudd Thanks! I'm always not confident to set the lav in between two fabrics
@@awseewee Same here, takes lots and lots of practice. I've found since I created this video that it is almost always better to mount the microphone on the skin under the shirt.
Can you just use native clamps with this mic, when hiding the mic, or the clamp sticks out too much? Can you avoid using tapes?
Yes, but it is hard to mount the alligator clips under clothing and have it not create a lump in the clothing.
@@curtisjudd I understand. I want to find a compromise solution between Sanken lapel mics and cheap blogger mics. Sanken mics are too expensive for me, 300 dollars. Can you recommend something that costs 75-112 dollars but sounds quite professional for short films? Is there a model of lapel mics which sounds professional but doesn't cost 300 dollars? I feel like 300 dollars for a single tiny mic is way too much. You can buy a condenser mic for that price!
@@sevchyk Unfortunately, no, I don't know of any lavalier microphones in the 75 - 112 dollar range which sound great. The closest I can think of are the DEITY W.Lav mics but they're a bit more expensive than this price range: th-cam.com/video/4-kM_xN5sPA/w-d-xo.html
That transport tape leaves a lot of debris in the mic. How do you clean it off?
I use Uni-solve adhesive remover wipes. Link in the description of the video.
Rycote commercial
Ok, thanks for the feedback. They work better than other solutions I've tried. I found the first round of Rycote stickies and undercover that I purchased with my own money to work very well. I contacted Rycote to ask about the new advanced versions so they sent me some to review. I hope this did not offend as that was not my intention.
Plus you do really have to make money somehow to keep the lights on and it's nice when you can endorse the product to from personal use.
If it's a good product he actually uses, what's the problem?