Comparing South Bend & Rhodes Shaper TIPS 680 tubalcain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2020
- I SOLD THE RHODES SHAPER--Oct 2020
CLICK ON THIS LINK for complete SB shaper playlist--
th-cam.com/users/playlist?list...
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Watch this video of me bringing home my older SB shaper.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QleP...
Watch this vid--of RHODES shaper - www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx5nO...
SHOP TIPS #172 ATLAS RHODES SHAPER Whitworth QUICK REVERSE Mechanism tubalcain
#shaper#metalshaper#atlasshaper#loganshaper#sheldonshaper - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Lyle, It makes me happy for to part with your cherished treasures while you are still alive. You get to see and feel the joy one gets when we pass things forward.
Never stop doing what you do so well while you still can. Do the auctions and tours, they bring joy to your heart.
Thanks
Old machines are just a thing of beauty. Same with old architecture. Thanks for all the skill, time and effort you put into your videos.
I'm glad there are still people like you in the world that know how to work these machines..I'm lost ...My Dad was a Mine Mechanic in the Pennsylvania coal mine and a mill right ..in the 60's and 70's .he would have understood those machines..I'm not that smart ...My Dad passed away at age 49 in January 1988 From Blacklung from the coalmines. .A Us Army Veteran. He is Buried With Honors at Baypines National cemetery Pinellas county Fl
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Glad that I stayed till the end Mr. Pete... you are quite the detective! That Rhodes in its original configuration was a beauty for sure. Makes you wonder whatever happened to the original drive components...lucky that the whole machine wasn't scrapped for the war effort. You are fortunate to have the SB as built and original. Loved this series!
It always pays to stay for the extra credit. loved the extra detail in this video.
Thanks
Great way for me to start my Sunday. Great cup of coffee and watching a shaper that is older than I am still working!
Thanks for the vid Mr Pete, I just love the little shapers, and the bigger ones, I find them hypnotic.
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Always interesting as well as informative. T/Y for posting this Mr. Pete.
Always learning more from your channel Mr. Pete !
Nice overview. Like the vertical conversion feature.
Thank You Lyle....Coffee & mrpete222 on a Sunday morning wake up...How times have changed (seems faster than my brain can adjust)....but I do adjust. I look forward to the future as I have learned from the past although I do very much miss the old ways, so much. My grandfather said the same. At the time I thought it silly of him, ha......TM
Hey Lyle, nice video. I only have a Rhodes that I refurbished and modernized the drive. It works good for me, only wish it had a bigger capacity.
6:35 2 screws on the clapper box swing - take 1 out will give a greater range of swing than with just 1 centre screw!
You are very correct
THANK YOU...for sharing. Enjoyed.
Great video ,appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos. I own a Rhodes shaper ,have had it for 15-20 years now,don't use it enough to justify the space it takes up but like it too much to sell it , and at my age that is the only reason I need. Like the South Bend design , looks like a better design and stiffer due to the table support. Was thinking of adding a table support to it since the base is cast iron and can handle the stress .Mine has compact Reeves drive making speed changes easy. Will be retiring in a couple of years and it along with the other (to many and Like you many duplicates) metal working machines I have collected over the years will keep me busy fixing them back up. I have been a machinist for the last 40 years and still enjoy the trade and get the same satisfaction from it today as I did when I started. Again thank you Allen
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Lyle,
Thanks for the comparison. I have a Rhodes 7” shaper but the previous owner has done some major modifications on it. The biggest changes are it has a Bakelite bull gear and 4 step matched pulleys. The bull gear makes my shaper extremely quiet with no gear rattle at all. The pulleys give me speed ranges of 21, 39, 74 and 132 strokes per minute.
John
Thanks
Once again enjoyed the video and thanks for the corrections😁😁
Always wanted to try a shaper .thanks 😊
I had no idea the Rhodes was that old. I had a 7” Rhodes. The base casting is extremely heavy and very rough. They didn’t touch up their molds often enough. Lots of filler on the outside to hide the poor casting.
I traded it for two Jacob’s rubber flex collet chucks which included three boxes of collets!
Kind of shows you the value of these shapers.
I think your South Bend is leagues ahead of the Rhodes.
I enjoyed this video very much!
Thank you
Thanks for another great edutainment video from the worlds top shop teacher.
Thanks
Very interesting Mr. Pete. Old machinery has such a grand look to it, I am so impressed with that cast iron base on the Rhodes. But I would probably prefect the Southbend with its storage.
13:00 The rattle on the Rhodes is just gear rattle. A flow of oil onto the gears meshing inside should reduce that quite a lot. It's very much the same gear rattle as steam traction engines. Also, nip up the ram way a little to put a little permanent load on the gears - would also likely quieten them a bit. It is though only noise and nothing to worry about !
The south bend was very beautiful and that Rhodes looked strong as heck
Shapers are a lot of fun to watch once in a while
Your timing is impeccable ! I have contracted 'Shaper Fever' as I have just restored a Lewis 10 inch and an Atlas (Sears branded) 7B. Noting the differences as well: I like the Lewis for it's mass and simplicity. I like the Atlas for it's ease of adjustment & setup. Both machines perform very well... mesmerizing to watch.
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Interesting video (as always!). Without meaning to criticise as an "armchair" machinist, I would have been interested to see a comparison for the setting up of the shaper, with regards to length of stroke, cutting depth, vice increments etc. Still very interesting.
Mr Pete that vertical attachment was quite something on the Rodes wonder if Southbend ever thought of the idea thanks for sharing with us
Hi Mr. Peterson,
As you know I am a shaper fan... a very interesting video... Thanks you...
Take care
Paul,,
Happy to see the Rhodes one more time. I'm sure the new owner will have a lot of fun with it. Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Yes
It is always interesting to see the manufacturing differences from different decades and manufacturers. The vertical slotting attachment would be a handy tool to have set up in the home shop especially with the tilting ram. With a little rotary table some hss and a grinder you would be ready to go. Thanks for showing the pictures and patents.
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Always great to have a MrPete video weekend mornings.
MrPete, on a totally unrelated subject I'm sure many of us have older lathes for which we'll never find steady or follow rests. I have a request, how about building a steady rest video
? I have a 4913 Clausing 10" which is in great shape, but missing the rests. I have a 6" diameter x 1.5" thick slab of hot rolled steel. I know a steady rest lies within, somewhere.
Thank You,
Paul
lyle
I looked for the Rhodes Company since Hartford is close by. It seems that Rhodes started with a hand cranked shaper. Then they went to one driven by your own overhead line shaft. Then when electric motor drive were coming in to shops they offered the cast iron base with a 1/2 hp motor. They were pretty innovative and offered dividing heads various types of tables and all sorts of tooling that you would expect to find on milling machines. The company is L.E. Rhodes and may have moved to Waltham Mass. Not to be confused with M.H. Rhodes who also was in the Hartford area until recently that made electrical components.
Thank you very much for the history
The Rhodes sounds lovely, almost like a stationary engine. I like her much better than the other.
Thanks for sharing!
I had a minty South Bend shaper, nicest tool I have ever seen. But it sat in my shop for years and I never used it. So I had to sell it to get the space.
I would be happy with the Rhodes shaper. It looks like a well built unit. A little gear noise I could live with.
Thanks for the interesting video.
Difference in distance between bull gear shaft centreline and rocker pivot pin will vary speed of rapid return. Closer they are, within reason, the greater the speed difference between cut stroke and return stroke if rocker arm length is kept the same.
I'd say the longer rocker arm lever and more distant pivot pin point on the Rhodes is keeping the rocker arm in a more favourable angular leverage position than the shorter South Bend design. Look at it as angular arc and I think the South Bend's shorter pivot distance sets the rocker slideways at a lees efficient angle to the bull gear crank pin. The Rhodes universal vertical slotter is a neat design.
I like the scale of these machines. The only shapers I have been around are about 6’ tall 8-10’ long and weigh about 6000 lbs! When they took a cutting pass they rattled the ground!
both so similar , yet completely different . This old iron is so intersting and well engineered both will still be just as usable in another 70 to 100 years.
Except the pressure oiled South Bend wears down a lot slower if the oil is changed sometimes and the level maintained. I bought a shaper from 30's with no pressure oiling and noticed that the previous owner had to shim the ram gib already. It's basically in need of rescraping which would cost 10x more than I paid for the damn thing. I really wish I would've waited for a nice pressure lubed one but that's what I have now and to be honest it's perfectly fine for a couple keyways every now and then
Rhodes drive used silent chain.. Older South Bend lathes used that as well.. Seems like it would have been a good design but I would imagine that it fall out of favor because of lubrication and wear issues.. Silent chain like the timing chain in older cars....Cheers from Louisiana
I've been watching your stuff for awhile now and learning alot. Welded for 30 yrs but woould like to buy a small lathe and learn to use it.
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Also on some Rhodes shapers the table could be rotated on a central axis.
No wonder I cant find a shaper your a hoarder good vid
14:47 I still don't think you're totally right ! I strongly suspect the electric motor was an option and without it, it could have been driven from line shafting down to a pulley on the 'motor' end of that 3 speed layshaft.
I was just looking at the Rhodes shaper at "Tony's lathe Archive UK" and it clearly shows both versions. The base for the line shaft drive doesn't have any of the power train mounting brackets on it. There were alot of interesting options offered. They offered a tilting table along with a rotary table. If you ordered the vertical slotter it appears that it came with a compound table that you could use the rotary table on.
I neglected to add that I too fit that description. That particular wife had a saying about our relationship, It was a perfect fit ! She knew more than she said and I said more than I knew.
lol
For a non machinist (except for one machining class in high school in 1969😲), can you describe the operations where a shaper is used rather than a milling machine? I know about internal key ways, but what else? Very much enjoy your videos! Keep them coming 👍👍👍
That’s about it
Dear MrPete. When I went to school, mechanical engineering, they thought us that drilling in metal requires, in general, higher rotation speeds when using bore bits small inn diameter. Larger bore bits less rotation speed. What's your opinion/experience on that claim?
16:46 - there's a good discussion point !
They've use a quadrant, spur gear and rack to keep the forward motion in the correct direction. Had they not gone for a gearing option and simply used a lever linkage, the power stroke would be upwards with a quicker downward return.
PROBABLY to be compatible with overhead line-shaft power feed without having to twist the belt - AS the angled lever linkage option would have worked fine - with the motor rotation reversed !
I saw a picture of a rack and pinion shaper
@@mrpete222 Seems a bit of an odd idea - going from linear(ish) motion to rotary and then back to linear.
the longer crank probably makes more torque
Looks like the old one has 3 speed pulley on it - I assume the motor hasn't got a matching 3 speed pulley ? If it had, it'd be a 3 speed ;)
Was the Rodes not intended to have oil in the crank housing, I would assume that it needs oil and could be the reason it is so clunky sounding but then again I'm not a machinist (yet).
I hate to say this, but, I like the Rhodes way better than the South Bend. It is much more powerful machine. Just looking at the extra rod length you it was made to take it. Loved the video. :-)
I think you are right just needs to be up dated it with a automatic oiler
@@davidsengelaub2971 Agreed.
The noise is incredible not sure i could listen to that the whole process.
Would you be able to tell me what the order is for shapers from best to worst machines. Thanks you SIr. VF
No, because I have only used a South Bend and a Rhodes
Mr. Pete, starting watching and enjoying your videos, what is the meaning behind the name Tubalcain?
Read Genesis 4:22. Thank you for joining me
@@mrpete222 Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron.
I have never owned a shaper or a Wilton vise. The machinist community must frown upon that. LOL
Yes
I don't believe the column height makes a lot of difference I would think a more critical measurement would be between the power wheel and the ram.
Just wondering if you had a shaper for sale
I have a post 1953 southbend 7 inch for sale if anyone would like it. Real nice shape.
South Bends seems to be quieter to me.
first!!!!!!!
Pete please tell me, is shaperitis catching ? I have seen many a machinist get quite carried away with these things. (Adam) Yet all will tell you they are slow and take-up a lot of room (puts me in mind of first ex-wife). Oh no, Pete ! I think I need one, soon ! (shaper not wife)
lol
I have to disagree with you Mr Pete. Box ways are stronger than dove tail ways
Thanks
Gear noise ,
It may be just me, but the last couple of videos of machines that you have sold seem to go to more of the middle aged guys than the younger generation. It saddens me that the younger people don't seem to have the skillset to use the machinery any more. Perhaps it's because of "machines building machines", but I fear the loss of all the knowledge and skills.
I agree