Jerry West VS Oscar Robertson: Who Was Greater?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Oscar Robertson and Jerry West are two of the most highly respected players in NBA History. But my question is, who was the greater 60s guard?
*Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
No copyright infringement intended. Uncle Hays makes no claim of ownership. All rights belong to their respective owners.
#nba #lakers #bucks
Both were awesome. I watched them both. Any young person today who think they wouldn't compete today has no clue.
JJ Redick wished he could be as good as these part time plumbers. He didn't come close.
If those legendary players were plumbers. Then I want to be a plumber
Reddick is a marginally talented nitwit
I believe west had his nose broken 8 times
@@duanebrown3016 yes because of contact... Hand checking and giants in the paint... You can't breathe on the guys today
Having seen both West and the Big O play, I'd have to give the edge to Oscar in the early to mid '60s and then I'd give the edge to West from the latter '60s to the '70s. Overall, I'd give the edge to Mr Clutch, The Logo, Jerry West. Jerry would never say he's better than Oscar because West is so humble. Both re two of the greatest players to ever lace em up. 💯
Good analysis. One point is that the game West brought into the league held up longer than Robertson's game. Robertson brought his basketball IQ and generalship to Milwaukee late in his career and the Bucks won a title with him on the roster in 1971. I don't think they would have won it even with Kareem without Robertson. Not unless they could have brought in someone else who was top-level floor general. I don't know who that could have been who was available.
Comparison? Good topic. Who was greater? Don't go there. It's an unnecessary exercise. These were guys who came from the harsher corners of the American experience and wrote their names forever in the stars. I think that's good enough.
Dr J put both Robertson and West in his starting all-time backcourt. Which seems to settle the question very nicely.
Having seen them both play, I'd have to go with Oscar - but it's close enough overall that I'd call it less than a hair thin edge, and I'm not going to actively disagree with those that call it Jerry.
Agreed. Oscar had a slight advantage of size/weight. Both men could drive the defense crazy, and they were both excellent defenders in their own right. On offense, both men would just do whatever they wanted and disregarded efforts to contain them.
@@MDLOP8 To be fair, neither of them was exactly known for penetrating and layups/dunks over Bill Russell (or Wilt or Kareem to lesser degrees).
But outside of the lane, they were both pretty much unstoppable by anything but their own cold shooting nights.
This is hands down THE closest incidence of a legitimate coinflip I can think of between 2 professional athletes. You'd be winner either way!
Having said that, because of the Mr. Clutch aspect along with the fact I'm a SoCal (old guy now) raised kid, I'd prefer The (Well Deserved) Logo if I've got the choice. Also, I'm not sure if The Big O could slam dunk or not. I believe West himself has stated that he wasn't capable of it himself. However, I'm going to disagree with the responder about the inside "the paint" part of the game. Both guys drove the lane with the best of them Guard wise, West had a clause in his contract about reconstructive surgery for the numerous broken noses he sustained from balls out inside play.
@@discernment8963 Oscar could dunk - but played in an era, for the MOST part, when it was considered "disrespectful" and didn't happen a lot.
Oscar was better in the first half of their careers..but the logo was better in the last half..and west had suffer a lot more injuries and missed a lot more games..then west had another all time top twenty teammate in elgin baylor..and if we take their overall careers..i will give the edge to the logo because of his defence and being more clutch when the game is on the line..
Two guys i knew fathers said, that the greatest player they saw was Oscar Robertson.
Two great players. All-time greats!
Wow! This has been probably the best video I've seen on comparing two great players. 👍🏻
Side note: I think Oscar & Elgin Baylor are sadly, two of the most forgotten, underrated super stars of the game.
Great video. Keep it up.
Seeing that Jerry West was my first idol of any kind, And as a child I signed every single one of my school papers "Jerry West" which meant that I was docked 1 point on every test, meaning I never scored 100 on any school assignment that I ever had....I would have to say he was not underrated. At least by me
Definitely, now it's all about LeBron!
Elgin Baylor is still disrespected by NBA HISTORIANS when it comes to the dunk shot everyone still talks about Julius Erving as the father of the dunk this guy was the inspiration for Dr.J.
@tts1126 Jerry West was the idol of many young males and it's easy to see why. Used to have action shot pictures of Jerry West on the cover of my peachy school folders so I saw Jerry shooting his quick jumper as much as possible. I also wrote to him via the Lakers and they sent me free pictures of Mr. Clutch.
Outstanding video!!! Oscar and Jerry are so close, you really can't go wrong with either choice. Like Bird and Magic, Oscar and Jerry came into the league together, led the 1960 Olympic team together, and have always been linked together historically. They are both all-time iconic players, and along with Elgin Baylor, both have been hugely under-appreciated as the years have gone by. Videos like this are important to inform the current basketball loving public about just how fabulous both these legends were.
BTW, another great comparison video would be Larry Bird vs Rick Barry. History will always regard Bird as an all-time, top ten player. But to those who saw Rick Barry at his peak, they know that he was the equal to Larry Bird in every way as a player. He was a lights out shooter, an unstoppable overall scorer, a spectacular passer, and when he decided to be, he was an effective defender Rick has been harmed historically because of his prickly, difficult personality, and his amazing ability to piss off referees, teammates, coaches, and the media. Yet on the court, there was nothing that Bird could do that Rick Barry couldn't do, and on just as high a level.
I enjoyed both, can not understand the absolute dedication with you guys to determine who was best. They were both the best!
Exactly. It all depends on how you construct your algorithm.
2 most dominant guards in the first 8 decades of the sport
@@ron88303 Yup. The word is "criteria" or "criterion," singular. How do you MEASURE "great" or "best"? Different for different people. All opinion, end o' the day. Still fun for all that.
Oscar was a huge guard by the standards of his time. He was 6'5 with a very strong build. I don't think there was a taller NBA guard than Oscar until Matt Guokas came along a few years later at 6'6. Of course Magic Johnson played at 6'9, and ever since there have been so many big NBA point guards that fans don't appreciate how dominant Oscar was.
Keep in mind that Oscar beat out BOTH WILT AND BILL RUSSELL for his MVP.
Very rare company, that - I think he's ALONE at managing that feat!
On the other hand, Jerry was the ONLY Finals MVP from the losing team - and the very first.
Also unique company!
Being the only finals MVP on a losing team is no honor. Jerry West knows that
@@BoosterGoldEarth6 It's an honor and a lot of respect.
It's just not an honor Jerry wanted to be known for or had ANY interest in.
West should have won MVP in 1970! Willis Reed didn't deserve the award!
they GAVE West that affirmative action NBA finals MVP....
@@burneraccount2428 Have you seen the way Jerry played in that Finals?
It was NOT "affirmative action".
I was a Jr High kid who was nuts about Basketball, from L.A. so of course I was a big Laker fan.
Probably the coolest thing about either of these 2 guys is if you were to ask him, he'd say the other guy.....
The Big O was the reason I took up basketball as a kid. He was the bomb to me.
Magic Johnson just entered the conversation
@@dwightlove3704 magic Johnson wasn’t even as thought when the Big O played. JFYI
@@slchambers1 I love when people insert players that aren't in the "original" conversation! Vid's about West & Robertson. The most common culprit is Jordan, but here they subbed in Magic lol.
Its so sad to see that todays NBA fans underestimate both of these greats.
I'm old school and I have only seen two unstoppable shots in my life; Kareem's skyhook and Jerry West's baseline jumper.
Dirks one legged fade was pretty dang unstoppable
ever watch Michael Jordan play??...he played with the Bulls in the 80s and 90s
IMO you got this one right, with one small caveat: West isn't just the greater "60s guard," he's one of the greatest guards of all time, & yes, a case can be made, possibly even THE greatest. So I'm clear, Robertson was also an all-time great. Both transcended era. They'd be great anywhere, anytime IMO. Nice job on the vid.
Different styles of players. Neck and neck, razor thin margins. Can't argue with anyone who picks Oscar, but I pick Jerry by a hair. I watched both of them play.
Jerry was my boyhood idol.
Mine too! Still high among my list of favorite players.
Having to face Russell's Celtics year after year in the finals and finishing second doesn't diminish West's greatest. He put up great stats in the finals but the Celtics always seemed to come out on top. I cannot say who was better because both played different roles and styles. Let's say that you couldn't go wrong having either on your squad, and Robertson and West both had a mutual respect and admiration for each other...
This video makes a point about Oscar getting knocked out of the playoffs in the first round five times. But in the late 50s through the mid-70s, there was no comparison between the East half of the NBA and the West. The tougher opponents were in the East. Oscar's team was in the Eastern Division, West's team in the West. The league was much smaller then with comparatively few teams, so the playoffs were only three rounds! The first team Oscar played in the playoffs was almost always either Boston with Bill Russell, or Philadelphia with Wilt. At the very end of the 60s and the early 70s, West might have met a terrific Knicks team in the finals. If your team won that round then you would play one of the other great teams in the Eastern finals. Not surprising Oscar's team lost five times in the first round against them. Compare West's record against the Celtics. Against much easier competition, West made it through two rounds to the NBA finals nine times. West's team was 1-8 in those finals. He lost 6 times to the Celtics, and, even with Wilt playing on West's team, West was 1-2 against the Knicks. Had West's team been in the East, he would been the one losing in the first round.
I don't want to hear he put up great stats crap. Jerry West and his partner in crime Elgin Baylor were both HERO BAll Worshippers. Jerry didn't know how to PG until Bill sharman came. Dude was selfish and did not get his teammates involved
yet u hold it against Lebron... make Mr. Clutch hold those Ls.... 8 of em
@@BoosterGoldEarth6Oscar was the biggest ball manipulator of all times bro....& probably rightfully so, because he was so good.
West average 18.7 shot attempts and 6.1 assists per 36 minutes played; compared to 16.1 and 8.1 for Robertson. Hardly a basis to call one a ball hog and selfish.
great comparison and agree close but go with West for same reason of playoff greatness despite people at the time leaning towards Oscar in his peak.
Spot on analysis! Both are considered the two greatest guards of their time. They were considered the two best during their playing days.
I give the edge to West based on his defense, clutch performances and playoff scoring. Both are incredible and their names will forever be linked together.
In any case, they easily led the ALL time pack of guards til Magic and the Jordan arrived. They are still right next to them
Early in their pro careers, you'd have to say Oscar was better but it didn't take long for West to catch up. On the back half of their careers, I'd have to give the edge to Mr Clutch as his stats were better and jerry led the NBA in assists while still averaging in the mid 20s in points. West was also a an all-NBA defender. Of course, the Big O was so great and especially with the Royals.
RIP, Mr. West 😭 #JerryWest #MrClutch
Right on. Zeke. Play-offs say everything. I think when he retired he held highest play-off ppg avg and he held it for a long time. Mr. Clutch. The Logo. GM who put Showtime together..
I saw them both play. They're different players. West was like Jordan and Kobe and Oscar was like LeBron. I can tell you this. When I started playing basketball in 1968, I wore #44.
shocking
Extremely similar and both we're Amazingly GREAT...But I'll have to give a slight edge to Jerry West.
Going with Oscar,he Did Westbrook things,50 years ago! He averaged a triple double one year!
@@Joseph-vr7cl You can't go wrong either way IMO their both Champions/Unbelievable talents. But for me I'll go with Jerry West but if i couldn't have West I Dam sho wouldn't be mad with Oscar Robertson.
And really, until Magic, then Jordan, no one really close to them.
@@Joseph-vr7cl "Triple double" is a ridiculously contrived stat.
@@gandydancer9710 No one really paid attention to how many the Big O had, until Magic began to popularize that stat. That's when they looked back and were amazed. And the Big O was not trying to get it-- it was just the result of how dominant he was. BTW, 30 point triple doubles at that!
When he retired, he was 1st in career assists, but also 2nd in career points (only trailing Wilt).
The knock on Robertson-and the reason he had some of those gaudy stats-was his usage rate. I realize point guards are supposed to have the ball, but it’s said he over controlled the game. Not much oxygen for his teammates.
sounds like bron bron
As a Laker fan in 71 and 72 our biggest rival was the big O and Jabber Dandrige
The big O was the better player. Hands down. The man had less help and put in that work. That's why people keep knocking KD for his golden state championships as the team was loaded with stars.
In my opinion Jerry was the best shooting guard ever and Oscar was the best playmaker ever sorry Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson
Don't ever apologize for your opinion, it's as valid as anyone's.
As a Lakers fan I'm Jerry West. But the big O was the truth 💯
There is no comparison in my opinion both of them were extraordinary ballplayers. And well rounded ballplayers to boot, they were like text books on how to play the game correctly.
Good post.
Agree
So then......There IS a comparison?
Big O was better... obviously
@@burneraccount2428 West was better... obviously.
Most of the people on this page did not live thru & see all the NBA basketball that I saw. When these guys played during the golden era of the NBA (1960s) nobody outside of LA thought West was the equal of Oscar. In fact, very few informed people even thought anyone was superior to the Big O. Few people now know very much about how good Oscar was in college which put him on a different level than anyone during that time. He was a 3-time national scoring leader (freshman were ineligible at that time) & 3-time consensus national POY. However, playing for a program (Cincinnati) which previously had never at any time been ranked in the top 10 or ever played a post season game, he led them to a 3 year record of 78-9 with final rankings of 2, 5, & 1. He is still the only player to ever lead the nation in scoring & lead his team to the final 4 in the same season twice. In his rookie season Oscar led the NBA in assists at 9.7 PG, & put up these season numbers: 30.5 PPG, 10.1 RPG, .473 FG%, .822 FT% while improving his team's win total from the previous season by 14. West was an all-time great 2-way player but at no time during his career was he ever as good as Oscar in his prime, nor was anyone else during that era.
Everyone knew who Oscar was as a Rookie in the NBA. He didn't disappoint he came right away and put up big numbers. I didn't know too much about Jerry, but when I saw him play for the first time I was very impressed. The Lakers were playing against Detroit at the old Olympia Arena and Jerry had a field day. I became a fan of his after that game. What you also must remember both Oscar and Jerry were 1st team All NBA members for at least 8-9 years straight. Oscar was the PG and Jerry the SG
Well done. Rebounding, (offensive and defensive), is a unique and valuable skill that rightfully merits separate stats. Oscar's rebounding was literally head and shoulders above Jerry's. I saw them play. They were the two best guards of their era, and together they make up the dream backcourt of my all-time team - (with all due respect to Jordan, Magic, etc.)
Fun video. I have only watched playoffs when I go watch old games and so I was pretty heavily on the Jerry West side of the argument, but it was cool to get the take from someone who has a more full understanding of the era.
I grew up in the 1960s and watched these two players. During that time, Oscar was viewed as superior. In the 1970's West was viewed as the better player. I remember Oscar being very tough. When I practiced playing basketball on my own, I would imagine myself playing in the NBA and being pushed around by Oscar. Oscar was not a person I would want to get hit by or challenge. I believe most fans of the NBA do not realize how physical Oscar could be. Jerry seemed to be the more prolific scorer and was clearly superior defensively. The fact Oscar played in the same division as the Celtics for much of his career in comparison to Jerry who played the Celtics in the finals makes a difference in how both players are viewed in the playoffs. To me, this is a draw - this is wimpish but both deserve recognition without one being viewed as lesser than the other.
Good analysis. Oscar peaked and was most dominant in the early 60s. He was a force right away. Basketball IQ off the charts, his size and power at guard devastating.
Jerry West was the better player imo in the late 60s through the 70s.
Who's greater? If there was any separation it was in West's defense. Jerry could dominate a game with his defense. He created havoc.
A much needed and great perspective!!! I like to see ppl who actually lived in these eras to chime in on the comparisons of the time and the view at the time. Russell Chamberlain Oscar Jerry & Baylor are all superb and standout from that 60s era!!!
I loved both players, but I always thought O was a slightly better player. Jerry was something else. I saw a game at the Garden in the 60s and was right next to the court. I was surprised by how high Jerry got on his jump shot. It seemed like he was shooting his jumper from the same height as the basket. He had long arms too. He was amazing. I never saw O play in person but I saw him on tv a lot. I didn't like his game as much while he was at Milwaukee. He was too ball dominant and it made the game less fun to watch. Don't look at Jerry's championship losses. He was clutch. Nowadays I would call it a draw.
that's a great video. i saw both of them play towards the end of their careers, and they are both deserving of the label "legend". i think either one could be said to be better overall, but jerry's defense probably does give him the edge imo. good call!
This is a very good video! Very well done. I am an old timer from Boston and have seen both of these players in live games, and I too have had a hard time over the years figuring out who was better. I think I have always leaned on the big O because of his assists and rebounding, but your video brought attention to West’s defense that I have over looked all of these years. Something that you left out was that the Big O had a very sweet shot and it would have been very interesting to see him play with the 3pt line. My analysis after watching your video is that they are dead freggon even….. but the difference is that West is the NBA logo !
Very diplomatic and analytical. Thank you.
Each was great to watch, and each was a class act. Lucky to be a kid learning basketball while able to watch these two guys at their peaks.
one of the best basketball videos ive seen on the internet. Fascinating, excellent, just what a good job. Please keep at it in your lane as they say, it's gold on youtube
It's about as close as it can get, but I'm going with Oscar on this. The points are close enough, but the rebounds and assists...
West's defense was great.
It's tough because we know that blocks, steals and a 3 point line would have boosted the case for West.
Gotta go with what is, not what we wish it to be: Oscar.
Comparing two of the absolute greatest of all time. They were both absolutely amazing to watch. Nice summary of their respective careers.
There's two players that can say hold my beer Michael.
Two of the best to ever do it... Both would dominate the NBA if they played now.
Tell Neanderthal assed Allen Dixon that
facts the nba is trash now
@@patek9789 that brings nothing to the table in settleing the west/Oscar debate ( in the minds of those who think there is one)
@@morrisparrish76 who said i was settleing the oscar/west debate? it is a common fact oscar and west would dominate the nba today due to how watered down the league is and how defense isn’t a thing. also why you don’t think it’s a debate? who is better
@@patek9789 if you had seen Oscar Roberston play; you wouldn’t have asked that question! I did & you didn’t!
I watched both of them play from 1969 till they retired.. in this period I'd take west... Before that might be different.. but I like west better
You are 100% spot on. When it counted,only Michael Jordan had a higher scoring average in the playoffs.
One cannot gloss over the fact that Jerry West played with teams that had other talented players. Elgin Baylor . . Wilt Chamberlain . . Happy Hairston . . Gail Goodrich . . Tom Hawkins . . just to name a few. For the most part during his 10-year tenure with the Royals, Oscar had to be a one man wrecking crew. Other than Jerry Lucas who was a much better college player than he was a professional, there wasn't much support. My vote goes to the Big "O". John Havlicek and Jerry West both have said that Oscar is the greatest player that they had ever played against. Chuck Daly and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have compared Robertson very favorable to Michael Jordan. I suppose that you couldn't go wrong with either one in the grand scheme of things.
I'm 76 so I've been watching the NBA since the 1950s. Until Magic, I thought that Oscar was the best point guard I've ever seen. I'd still put them one-two. At the off guard, I'd pick Jordan. Not just for his offense - there've been many great scorers at guard - but for his defense. Michael's nickname on defense was "the Glove." If a guard on the other team was lighting your team up, the solution was "put the Glove on him." Problem solved. I'd pick West number two for the same reason: he was a great defender as well as a great scorer. West was all-NBA defensively. Michael was all-World.
@@johnbrady6276 Very good points you make. If the two were equals on defense, I'd probably have to give the nod to Oscar. But West was a standout defender, which is the great equalizer in the debate. It's been said that West was one of the best perimeter defenders in NBA history and he'd have won all defensive first team awards every year he played in the '60s had the award been around back then. As it was, he won several towards the end of his career after the award was implemented so if he won them when he was past his prime, it stands to reason he'd have won them in prior years as well.
@@johnbrady6276 No, MJ had no such nickname. "The Glove" was Gary Payton.
Jerry Lucas was a better NBA player than all but two of those West teammates (Chamberlain and Baylor). And it's not close.
Actually this is against Jerry. It is easier to get the ball and acore more in a worse team thana team of stars. This is an argument pro Jerry West.
I saw them both for years. Oscar was so much stronger than Jerry and had so little help. Have them switch teams, wow, the Lakers would have won even more. Both great.
Two great guards. However, West, by his own admission, once said that he wasn't a great dribbler. And he may have been a good defender but Robertson was too and in the years from '68-'70 Walt Frazier was the best in the NBA at stealing the ball. Robertson shut down Earl Monroe in Milwaukee's championship win over Baltimore. So West was indeed great and so was Robertson. From 1969-1975 Walt Frazier was great. He never even emphasized scoring like the other top guards. Yes Oscar Robertson and Jerry West were two of the greatest guards ever. Frazier, Monroe, Dick Barnett, Gale Goodrich, and others were really good too. Those were some awesome days of team basketball, not just individuals building up scoring stats. Like you said, long shots counted as two points just like a layup.
Mr. Logo and Mr. Players' Rep - match made in heaven
Big O. The scoring section should have went to oscar. He had percentage and total points plus better free throw shooter.
This is such a close call for me. Both played the same amount of years in the league and what’s even more interesting is that when both won their only titles, they were both #2’s behind Wilt in West’s case and Kareem in Oscar’s. But overall, I would say Oscar was the better individual player but West was ultimately the player that you would trust just a little bit more with a game on the line. Oscar was going to give you about the same fantastic stat line wither regular season or playoffs. West seemed to raise his level of play to another level once the playoffs came around. I think there was a ceiling west could get to in the biggest moments and games that I’m not sure Oscar could quite get to.
"Oscar was going to give you about the same fantastic stat line wither regular season or playoffs." You're not alone in this assessment. Frank Deford described this quality of Oscar's game (1968) as "eerily consistent... In 8 years as a pro he has never averaged less than 28.3 points a game or more than 31.4, & in 6 of the 8 years his average varied less than a point. In assists & free throws he has maintained the same level of consistency. He is like a .333 hitter who arrived at that figure by going 1 for 3 with 1 walk in every game of the season."
As you say, fantastic stat line, 28 points, 31 points, or a .333 hitter for that matter. But it has been said, good as this is, instead of being his rival Mr. Clutch, this made Oscar Mr. Groundhog Day. Fans that saw him play said Deford's observations were true, which made watching any game Robertson was in doubly frustrating. Oscar never seemed to raise his game to the "spectacular moment," & yet... at game's end, he had all those great #s in the boxscore. Which was maddening, so they say.
Still an all-time great, don't misunderstand. But I think you hit on one of the key distinctions between he & West.
I would have to go with Big O. Walking triple double. Enough said.
Very close. Scoring, even. Assists, Oscar. Rebounding, Oscar. Defense, West. Oscar better early in their careers. West better at the end.
If you asked humble Jerry West, he would tell you that Oscar Robertson was the greatest guard in those days, but I saw them head-to-head many times against each other, and West could frustrate Oscar when West played defense on the Big "O". Jerry had extremely long arms, and he could block shots from behind better than anyone ever, and he could also do it against Oscar, who was 2 inches taller, and was more physically gifted. Both had complete basketball skills, but I would say that Jerry's defense gave him a slight edge over Oscar, who was probably the most gifted basketball player of that era. I think West also had a much deeper understanding of the basketball game than anyone in the league. He seemed to know what was going to happen based on how things developed during a game, and he had a very tactical mind. The factors involved about why the Lakers often came up short against Boston perennially, I would say, would be their lack of a quality Center until Wilt, and the fragility of their superstar Elgin Baylor's knees; and don't forget that Elgin was in the Army for 2 years! West often had to carry a big load, and sometimes with protective hardware on his often broken nose. The biggest asset of West was his driving competitiveness. He was tougher on himself than any coach could be. Any loss could drive him into recriminations of his performance, going over a lost game in replays in his mind; and then he would go to the gym and work, work, work; It contributed to his life-long depression, which he has also battled. But everyone knows How Jerry is one of the most beloved men in sports history. Basketball players love to be noticed by, and interact with, Mr. Clutch. Sometimes, though, if you watch old film, you can see players dribbling with their hand on the very top of the ball and it looks like they weren't as good ball handlers; it looks primitive, but the old rules were the cause of it. You couldn't dribble the ball by directing it from side, or bottom - so don't let that fool you about what they could perform. Those players could do those things in pick-up games; I've seen it. I'm not selling Oscar short here. I was just commenting on games where they played against each other. West knew Oscar had an awesome game and that he was more powerful, and could do just about anything to help his team win - but that's exactly what caused Jerry to psych himself up for a big performance. (As a side note, I'm really surprised at the things Pete Maravich could do with a ball under the same rules in an actual game - think what he would be able to do if he could get away with what guards do now - and he had half a heart his whole basketball life.)
I was a Big O fan especially when he won with the Bucks. Time has told me that West was better. Clutchest player of his time.
Mr Clutch wins , THE LOGO...
Robertson was one of the very best PGs in history, but West is The Logo. I've gotta go with Mr. Clutch.
im 20 so never saw either play, but i use 73 lakers on 2k & jerry west is a CHEAT CODE💯🤣🤣🤣
You can’t help but to feel bad for jerry being good enough to make the finals so many times but constantly losing to a Celtics team that clearly hee the better more stacked team. Makes you wonder how many jerry could have won had the Celtics and bill Russell not existed dominating the league for a solid decade or more
Jerry West won one nba finals and lost t8.
Oscar played in 2 nab finals and won1.
West played on better teams but Oscar was better.✊🏿
Excellent, excellent analysis!
I have to use common sense.If West had played in the Eastern conference and had to go through Russell and Chamberlain he would have never played in an NBA finals.
If don’t feed the bulldog marc
Tough one man...I was too young to remember both of these legends until their very end around '73 & '74...I want to hear from the folks older than me (58) on this one,
I will be 64,June 9th! I been a Milwaukee Bucks fan,when they drafted Lou Alcindor( Kareem)
They traded for Oscar Robinson, the big 0!it was far from a one man show, Jabbar,Dandridge,Robinson, Allen,Perry with JonMcglocklen,the sixth man!
Joseph, I think that it's really hard to call Amy athlete the greatest of all-time I think we have the greatest of their era & I think that Kareem was the greatest basketball player of his era...like Russell was of his, Milan for his era, Bird & Magic for theirs, Jordan for his etc.
@@carlbenson6412 I agree with you. Very well put.
The circumstances, nutrition, medicine, exercise science, salaries, rule changes, etc., all influence players' careers in ways that would be impossible to measure objectively.
There are also the biases people place on one generation or the other that would influence any model that you could run to adjust for these differences. For instance, people say that Wilt shouldn't be considered better than Jordan or LeBron because he played against plumbers. No, he didn't. He played against people who weren't set for life when they left the NBA. Sure, some did have jobs during the offseason, but they were professional athletes nonetheless -- they weren't walking up to the arena the day of the game after spending all day fixing leaky pipes.
Hearing is one thing-listening is another- And heeding is yet another
While the Russell Celtics tormented West in the Finals, they kept Oscar out of the Finals. Also, Jerry and "O" were the co-captains of the great USA Olympic team in 1960, but neither was the MVP of the team. That honor went to Jerry Lucas, for shooting 83 per cent from the field ( 5/6 every game).
Great Analysis, regardless of who we think is better both Oscar Robertson & Jerry West have become far to under appreciated & disrespected.
Without question.
Mostly by youngsters who don’t know any better
This guy's talking about West's playoff production which was great. But he had a lot more great players on his teams. Until The Big O got with the bucks teams geared their entire defenses around stopping Oscar and they still couldn't do it.
Good teammates is against a player stats because other players get plays shoots etc.
To me Mr. West is the GOAT of PGs. Playoff stats and defense.
Looking at statistics is great, but Jerry West has always stated that Oscar was the better player.
Oscar had a guy that didn't have a chance to live up to his hype Maurice Stokes this guy was the FATHER OF THE POINT FORWARD Position 6-8 230-235 he was the ORIGINAL LE BRON JAMES.
Actually in the 1970s when all three were in their thirties john havlicek regularly out played both west and oscar..i watched it live on tv several times
west was my favorite player growing up, but i'd take either one. how about both on the same team???
There is some film from an All star game in late 60s or early 70s. Jerry and Oscar from the West in the backcourt.
On the east side, Havlicek and Frazier. Almost no one but those 4 touched the ball late in the game. Like a 2 on 2 game.
And that would be the 1960 US Olympic team. The original DREAM TEAM.
10:57
Not to knock Jerry's opponents - but that 1969 Celtics team had 2 Hall of Fame players in their *LAST* season in the league (Bill and Sam) and Don Nelson *DID NOT MAKE THE HALL AS A PLAYER* (he made the Hall as the AT THE TIME "most wins NBA coach ever") - so only 4 that season.
On the other hand, Jerry only had Wilt and Elgin as fellow HoF players with him that season.
Jerry played out of his mind in the '68 finals. 53 points in game 1. 42 pt triple double in game 7.
@@smokeyjoe795 Jerry played very very well in Finals as a general rule.
By then Baylor was washed up.
@@gandydancer9710 Fading, but a long ways from "washed up".
Late in the following season is when he finally got got the final hurt that caused him to become washed up.
Robertson was a point guard while West was a shooting guard. Of the two West was a greater force in the clutch and a tougher defender....
On Jerry & Oscar not being great at driving to the basket or dunking…..IT WAS NOT ALLOWED in those days!….there’s a reason west had 11 broken noses
I'd edge towards Jerry West because he was a better (quicker) defender and he had better all-around skills playing the game. West was quicker and could shoot anywhere. Oscar needed more time to prepare his shots. Oscar was more a set shooter. In many ways, Oscar was Magic Johnson 15 years before Magic came to the league.
Can't help but think, "spoken like a true Lakers fan."
Got to go with Big O.
Both great but Oscar
Can't forget David Thompson's 73 & George Gervin 63pts.
True. However, they were both strictly off guards. Jerry and Oscar were True combo guards. They scored and distributed.
>>Can't forget David Thompson's 73 & George Gervin 63pts.
The Big O gets the nod during the regular season. Jerry West is the clear winner during the playoffs. Both superb players, all time greats!
If their era had the 3 point shot, the present assist criteria, being allowed to palm the basketball on the dribble without being called for a turnover and the amount of steps players are presently allowed without being called for traveling; their stats would be in the stratosphere. I grew up in LA and Jerry West was and still is my favorite of all time. If I had grown up in Cincinnati I am sure the Big O would have been my favorite. They were both spectacular players and in my opinion the best guards ever!
This one is really hard, because I might have the impression that Jerry was a better defender, but I can't truly confirm that I can't put down Oscar's defense out of ignorance.
And Oscar was a better passer and rebounder. He simply put the ball in play more and was probably a better offensive floor raiser due to his playmaking in general helping teammates.
Jerry was insanely efficient though, so far above league average and doing it as a guard. That has to count for something and if Jerry has better defense I almost begin to feel like it's too close for me to judge.
You're wrong. Oscar was the nest defender.
@@alanm03 Oscar mightve been solid on D but west was underrated as a defender he had good speed and good on ball defense also was good as a help defender.
@TJ O was more than solid. And West wasn't underrated. Anyone that paid attention to his game knew him to be a great defender.
Oscar was actually more efficient offensively (higher FG%, FT% and TS%), but yeah, it's incredibly close overall. Would love to see how they'd play today, they'd both still be great
@@alanm03 You're wrong. West was the better defender, and it isn't close.
They're close but I give West the edge for his perimeter defense and shooting
Jerry west hands down. Oscar was amazing but Jerry was far foo superior defensively and not that much inferior of a playmaker or rebounder to be considered a lesser player than oscar
West was fast as hell and could jump really well too. You just don't think of him in those terms, but film don't lie.
After 40 years of watching, studying, NBA. I perfectly understand Dr J's all-time starting 5: Oscar, West, Baylor, Wilt and Russell. My starting five, is all about 80's and 90's players: Magic, Jordan, Bird, Olajuwon and Kareem. Imagine these two teams coliding each other! Bob Petit, Hondo Havliceck and Cousy would come out the bench, and Thomas, Dr. J and Barkley would've been the reserves of the 80's and 90's squad.
It'd be like counting Ants to track, but legitimately 35-40% of West FG's would be 3's if it'd existed.
If don’t feed the bulldog discernment
@@morrisparrish76 ?
"35-40% of West FG's would be 3's if it'd existed."
Not remotely. A shot that far out was just a bad shot.
@@gandydancer9710 How many Zillion of Chick's "There's West with a 20footer off the dribble" were 22'? Plenty..... You obviously are a stats witness opposed to actual one......
@@discernment8963 If you think a 22 foot shot will generally get you 3 points then you have no clue what you are talking about. The distance to the line is mostly 23' 9" and you have to be BEHIND it to get 3 points for hitting your shot.
The claim that "35-40% of West FG's would be 3's" is simply idiotic. West didn't routinely take low percentage shots.
The Big O did so much, particularly with the Royals. He was a very big guard - but was so subtle, especially on his assists. He rarely made a mistake. Oscar's image would be different in an era of constant TV coverage. Jerry West scored more, and was flashier. Both All Time Greats. That was my first NBA game attended, at age 13, Oscar versus Jerry.
As a person who actually saw them play in the 60's and 70's, they were by far the top two guards in the NBA. Oscar was number 1 and Jerry a close second.
Oscar was a better all-around player because he was clearly a better passer, rebounder and slightly better defender. Jerry was a slightly better shooter due to having more range.
The one area Jerry was clearly better is that until Jordan came along, West was the greatest playoff scorer in NBA history. That's why he was called "Mr. Clutch".
Jerry.
I see a number of people say they saw both play and think that West was the best overall. I saw them both as well.... I can remember when Sport magazine ran a cover story on Jerry West with the headline "Is West the Best?". My answer: no. The reason Jerry West repeatedly said that Robertson was the best all-around player is because he was being honest. Both were great players, but all-around -- and with the exception of Lebron -- the Big-O has been unmatched. Remember, he was not only an almost unstoppable scorer, he was getting all those rebounds at a time when all the big guys were standing around the basket and all those assists when the assisted player had to score without taking a dribble... watching Oscar Robertson play was like watching a great artist, orchestrating the flow of the game in a way that few have ever matched while putting up all those numbers with a supporting cast that at times had a serious lack of depth... West was a great player...and a great basketball mind. You should respect his opinion that Robertson was the better all-around player... he is right about that.
So closely matched up. Size, skill level, dominant at that position for most of their careers. I will go with Oscar. Averaging a triple double almost twice! And he played on lesser teams and was more durable.
When he was on the court West was better.
And, yes, I saw a lot of them both, including in person, starting in '1964-65.
And the "triple double" is a contrived overrated stat. As if 10 points and 10 blocks were in some sense equal achievements just because we humans have 10 fingers. Ridiculous.
Fuck I missed three of your videos in a row! Shame on me, lol. Now I'm gonna binge these...
They were equally great 👍 😉
Equally my ass; there can be only one boss & they (Oscar and Jerry) know it
Honestly, both of these guys are extremely underrated... They're both absolute LEGENDS of the sport!
The fact that they were this close statistically, and West still went on the record saying that Oscar was the better player, really shows what a class act Jerry West is. It reflects extremely well on his character, and I find it heartwarming, because I know that would mean an awful lot to Robertson. Robertson was well known for being bitter and grumpy toward the lack of appreciation and recognition he got as a player, and for being resentful toward the role that racism played in that lack of recognition. It's cool to see that the best white player of Robertson's generation, the guy that the NBA literally chose to be their logo, pays homage to Robertson, and considers him to be the better player.
Oscar Robertson Was more Productive, Points in there prime was similar but Assists & Rebounds Puts Oscar Robertson in his own league. West wasn't even close. But West played on better teams? So I'm just looking from a statistical point of view. Both were Tops at the position. *Great duo to Matchup*
West was also a waaaaaayyy better defender.
@@zombie92110 I agree. Numbers don't always tell the whole story also. They are both great players. And did what it took to win. I'm 53 so I didn't grow up watching them. I'm just looking at stats highlights and a few games etc. I enjoy learning about the older players I never watched now that I got plenty of time to do so.
Good points, but as you alude to West had to share the ball with Elgin Baylor and Wilt later, plus with his game if the three point line had been around with no hand checking Jerry could've averaged 35 a game. It's hard to compare them directly since they played different positions, but they're two of the best ever.
@@asmith1022 great point 👍Be Blessed it's awesome to have a few highlights at least
@@zombie92110 He was a better defender. But Oscar gets the nod in rebounding and passing. Though Jerry was solid there as well.
Bog O could a lot of things. But he wasn't Clutch like West at all. West became the Logo for a reason. I would be happy with either one in their prime. Big O was a big rebounder, assist man and scorer(he averaged 30ppg as a Rookie). So either one would work for me.