@@jdapaul1351Anthony Mason should lowkey be snuck in there too. Dude could reliably switch from guarding Shaq to Nick Van Exel. He's the main reason MJ hated playing against the Knicks in the 90's.
If he was able to play in the 90s he’d be the best big of all time. His defense is extremely underrated as well as his skill set. Put him in an era where he can best utilize his physical gifts it’s hard for me to see anyone dominating more than him
@@TheIcemanthomasow is it hyperbole? He’s 7’1 (allegedly 7’3 which seems more believable in pictures) with a 40-45 inch vert, Shaq like strength, the speed of a wing, and he had a refined post game with good passing chops. Defensively nobody would’ve scored on him and he’d likely be the best rebounder of all time if not top 3. He’s already giving you all time great impact defensively and his offense in the 90s would be Prime Shaq like. That 2 way impact would put him top 3 all time at worst
@@kingjaydex7464 nothing u said means anything in terms of what he would be able to produce on a basketball court. This isn’t track and field. His physical measurables are great but they don’t mean u can predict how great he would be in another. Not to say he wouldn’t be great, but y’all have to stop with this notion that he’d be far and away the best based on things that have nothing to do with basketball and the way it is played across eras. Hypotheticals can’t be proven and have zero basis besides what u think and not what u actually know would happen.
Seriously people have no idea wilt played absolutely nothing like shaq. They just hear the (mostly fake) stories about his athleticism and physical traits and assume he was just a bruising big
@@jooyichenthere really isn’t any evidence needed for that. I just think his defense and passing are the things that don’t get talked about as much. Most of his highlights showcase his fades and finger rolls
I liked the attention brought to Hal Greer. That guy has been all but forgotten and he had some real game. People need to put some respect on his name.
@Smoothyoki Hal Greer, Chet Walker and Billy Cunningham along with wilt they won the most regular season games 69-13 and broke the stranglehold Boston had on title runs
As a child I was fortunate enough to see how Greer and Wilt play. I'll never forget how Hal Greer would drive to the corner like it was a layup and shoot, which would now be a three,with a high percentage.
@@heavylobster4339Yes ! But i think these episodes will only come out in like 2-3 years MINIMUM because they are only 28, they are in the middle of their prime … And i think Kawhi could also have an episode because it’s only the best peak not best career and his peak was higher than Kobe for exemple. Embiid could also have an episode, monster regular season player, most points per minutes of all time, if he just get 1 chip or 2-3 deep playoffs run were he is as dominant as he is in the regular season he could have an episode .
One of the things that amazes me about Wilt was even though his post moves were a handful, the ones he did were effective for him. That fadeaway always is a sight to see. Can't wait for the rest of the offensive legends.
It’s similar to Giannis or Shaq, in that they were so unstoppable at a few moves there was no reason to do anything else. Giannis however, unlike Shaq has a similar ability to Wilt to go up and over a guy and roll the ball in over the basket, although Giannis does it on the move.
I don't think he's going to double-dip on players he already did in Greatest Peaks. I strongly suspect it'll be players like Nash, Dirk, Wade and Penny (he's alluded to making videos about some of them) - not quite good enough to make the first series, but all-time offensive weapons
@@donovanjames19808yeah, it would be stupid to not make videos on Magic, Steph, MJ etc. if it’s a series about offensive legends. A jokic video is probably in the works too
Theres so much legend behind wilt's absurd box score but no one uses the context of the era and the teams he played in. Thats' why this channel is my favourite, always trying to put an unbiased viewpoint and find the truth
Not just that but correlating/debunking what people took from the box score and put it by the eye test based on what film existed. And ultimately tying in concepts that do make sense. Like having a non-versatile offense generated from one player definitely needed more playmaking to offset their non efficient output to create a true team winning gameplan.
@@t4d0W they dont have advance knowledge of the game yet. They played the rules, and he was the beast. What we can learn about wilt with this analytics, we know wilt will score 30, with an unlimited potential of defense, rebounds and block shots. He will always will be a beast on Offense and Defense, not even LBJ can claim.
Thinking Basketball spoke about a Penny Hardaway video coming, almost two years ago! I think he also has talked about doing one on Nash - and referred to Wade and Dirk as his two closest cuts for the Greatest Peaks series! Hopefully we get to see most, if not all of these guys!
From what I've seen from Wilt's footage, highlights, etc., he was a finesse and highly skilled player rather than just an overwhelming physical presence. These fadeaways and finger rolls are sweet ⭐
Ooh yes. Another excellent series by Thinking Basketball. I love these deep dives into different players. I can't wait for the inevitable episode on Steve Nash (fingers crossed).
Greatest peaks is my favorite series on TH-cam. This feels like Christmas. I am literally crying tears of joy. I would miss my sons football game to watch this series.
As a fan having the pleasure of watching Wilt play his changes were for obvious reasons. Early on his teams had less talent therefore he was required to score. And score he did. The records speak for themselves. Later, particularly in the late 60s he finally had a complete team. The 68 Sixers set win records at the time, as did the early 70s Lakers. Both teams didn't need Wilt to score they needed his defensive presence and his rebounding prowess. Wilt rose to the occasion and copped two titles in the process. In my humble opinion and almost 60yrs. of watching, I can say Wilt is the greatest to ever play the game. The NBA changed rules specifically to stop the man's total dominance. The game played today is a result of that, minus the three point line of course. No player in NBA history has had to deal with rule changes specifically aimed at that player besides Wilton Norman Chamberlain.
Yes, we like these deep dives a lot better than the day to day single game analysis where we try to make a narrative out of something that is so short term and therefore almost solely a result of natural variation
The offensive foul thing somehow could've held back Wilt. Had he been allowed to be aggressive in the paint like Shaq did, no one would ever defeat him.
He could still get beat. But he also was a fairly gentle guy most of the time. There are stories from multiple players who played with and against him who tell of someone going up to block some dunk of Wilt's and rather than throw it down as hard as he could, they'd describe how he let up and went soft because he knew he could break their arm, and the board, he if tried.
Some give and take here as well though. Defenders couldn’t really body him up and make contact like they could when guarding Shaq either. Part of why it was so hard to officiate Shaq because you could literally call a foul almost every trip up the floor, whether it was offensive or defensive.
He was almost drafted by Auerbach & the Celtics (who already had Russell). They were initially friendly with another, but Red found him to be "a headache" to coach, because a young Wilt didn't get why he'd pass when he was unstoppable with the ball? imagine Russell & Chamberlain in the front court together? Game over.
@@88949597they legitimately might have never lost a game, outside of an absolute heater from an opponent. But even then there was no three point shot, making this tougher.
@@88949597 No way that's true. How could Boston draft him? Philly drafted Wilt as a territorial pick. (Why his high school -- Overbrook -- counted for that I don't quite understand, but it did.)
I’m so excited for this series! I think there’s so much context that stats will never capture. But in terms of “the eye test” Wilt is about as good as they come.
Remember to pace yourself during this series! I know you struggled with burnout last time you did a series like this, so take your time. You got this, and I’m hype for the series!
was rewatching greatest peaks and then I saw this was released - super excited for the rest of the series (and maybe one day a Defensive Legends series!)
Great work on the wilt documentary Ben!!! You truly are a legend to diehards of the sport of basketball. I've learned a lot from you, and it was cool to see you on a showtime documentary!!
I CANT WAIT FOR THIS SERIES!! I wasn’t around for the greatest peaks so I’m super excited for a new one. You guys have the best analysis of any channel by far so I can’t wait for this! Much love from the UK
Our favorite historical basketball analysis series is BACK! On a side note, it would be fascinating to see Wilt playing in today's NBA, with modern training regimen, modern tactical thinking, and modern rule sets. He's just so freakishly built that I think if he grows up in a modern basketball environment, he could be a peak AD type of defensive player, and a Giannis type of offensive player, plus the potential in play-making.
This is one of the best analytic videos I know, on any topic. I watched Wilt for all those years, and he was indeed stiff and clunky, and repetitious. It's also true that the rules as enforced back then wouldn't allow him to use power moves underneath, a la Shaq. Overall, the very best players of the early sixties were nearly as good as the best players now in many areas of the game (think "Jerry West"), but the game as a whole wasn't as fluid, partly because of the weaker outside shooting and, to some extent, because of the less creative ball handling (carry, anyone?).
14:55 yeah Wilt had trouble scoring because they double him. But the League can also change the rules so defenders can't leave their man like they did for Jordan to succeed. Just like Wilt said, "They change the rules for Jordan to dominate, they change the rules for Wilt to slow down". I think these changes should be mentioned in this series as this is a huge factor why players dominate offensively. It's unfair to just compare numbers out of context.
It wasnt that they couldnt leave their man. Plenty of teams doubled Jordan. But the difference is they couldnt rush back to their man. Jordan faced a lot of similar defense and he didnt have the defensive 3 second. The only rule I would say that helped him was the goltending, as that hurt bigs a bit down low.
@@jasonvargas4798 "...they couldnt rush back to their man." I don't recall any rule against this. In fact they HAD to rush back to their man if they gave up on the double team.
Wilt was a pretty good ballhandler for his size, carrying was still a violation in the 60s. look at him with the Globetrotters where he was allowed to dribble like modern players
Not really. Especially with his inability to put the ball on the floor and blend playmaking with his shot making. And he's not gonna try put the ball on the floor in traffic either. Which is why his moves are pretty decisive but safe around 5 to 10 ft around the rim. The advantage is he's bigger than anyone so he's getting that offensive rebound and the putback.
I had the priviledge to watch Chamberlain battle against Russell, Reed, Unseld and Jabbar. I adored those who battled against Chamberlain, but with the wisdom that comes from life I now admit that I must agree with Russell. Wilt was the greatest player I ever saw. I will say, that in my elder years I have come to love the incredible talents and tem play of Jokic, he somehow reminds me of a combination of all the great centers I have enjoyed watching...except without the great jumping ability! : )
More than anyone in NBA history, I would want to see Wilt in the modern game with new shoes and training. I don’t think there’s a soul in the NBA who could stop him if he played today.
I think Jokic Embiid is modern day Wilt/Russell. Jokic might be the quieter centre with less explosive athleticism, but he makes his teammates better like Bill. Embiid is the statistical marvel who has all the natural physical tools to be a Wilt stand in. So the question would be - would modern Wilt/Ewing (Embiid) be the better counter, or a more selfless centre like Jokic defeat Wilt by playing 5v1. I considered Gobert, but I think Wilt can playmake if he needs to, or power through up top. And no, the mini centres won't stop him, and they can't really run him out of the court, because Wilt is kind of an ideal small ball/run and gun 5, who would fit disgustingly on a modern Warriors/Harden Rockets team. I still prefer Jokic over Embiid here, but it's a pick your poison situation.
@@blackjacktrial That must the worst double comparison ever. Bill was no where near Jokic offensive arsenal and Jokic has nothing of the deffensive prowess that Russell had. And please, Embiid can´t rebound pass or read the game as Wilt did (not to mention his lack of availability)... and Wilt never profited FT as Embiid does.
Prime Wilt was the fastest and strongest player on the court, and possessed the most endurance. Led the league in points, rebounds, blocks. Nobody close then. Nobody wd be close now.
Cool to see this video put out! This was one of the first chapters in the 'Thinking Basketball' book I read a few years back. Worth the read for anyone who enjoys analytical readings.
I love how you pointed out the league rules at the time, prohibiting Wilt from just bullying everyone under the basket every single play. If he was allowed to do that, he would've averaged many more points. I'd say Wilt is more underrated than anything.
@@chrisstfort7 Yeah but he didn't do that every single play..But if he was allowed to, he easily could've moved everyone under the basket and just dunked on them every single play until they triple teamed him. The only reason Bill Russell even stood a chance vs Wilt Chamberlain is because Wilt couldn't use his crazy strength and size to just move the much smaller Bill
One of the most basic things which made Wilt great was that he was able to play almost all game long, or even all-game long a lot of the time. He was so big and long that he often didn't need to play with maximum intensity, and this allowed him to put in very, very long minutes, allowing him to have an even bigger impact on both ends of the court, and also meaning that the team didn't really even need a back-up centre. He was big, but he wasn't actually especially heavy relative to the length of his frame (and his arms), and he kept himself in great shape, and all of this added together to allow him to have great endurance and durability (he rarely missed games due to injury, which is quite remarkable for someone of his size). Big players are often thought of as being less durable, but I think it isn't necessarily an unavoidable feature of big players. I just think that teams are more likely to give big players a chance even if they do get injured a lot, and more likely to give them a chance when they're healthy again after being out for a long time.
It's really interesting to see the changes in basketball, I would say that the rules in basketball changed the most since its inception compared to other sports. This makes it even harder to compare players from different eras, even if you put a player today straight back to Wilt era, I think they would struggle a lot compared to what people think.
Thank you! People think that players today would dominate because of athleticism, or that guys back then were average at best because they couldn't do all these dribble moves today, not taking into account that the rules limit what they know now as second nature. Kyrie Irving would get a travel called every play back then because you couldn't carry the ball, you couldn't put your hand underneath the ball. The step back would likely be called traveling in assuming. The offensive player couldn't initiate contact... The shooting and dribbling is much better today, but that's more so allowances in the rules than people think, vs strictly evolution. I think it'd be much harder to un-learn what you've trained for your entire career, vs. new things allowed that are introduced to you, and have time to learn for the first time. guys were almost as fast & just as athletic (more impressive to me for playing in flat converse) just certain moves hasn't been invented & a lot of things we take for granted today weren't around. so why would you expect Bob Cousey to dribble with his left, or the average player to be able to shoot from 35 feet, when it didn't make any sense to, and no one had done it yet? Yes the game evolved, but I really hate the dismissive attitude towards legends who paved the way for everyone now, just because they played 60 years ago and assume they wouldn't last a second today! If Joker could play in the 80s, then Wilt most certainly would do just fine today - especially with modern advancements & a style that pulls bigs away from the paint. If it weren't for Mikan in the beginning, Wilt, & Russell, & countless others that have been forgotten, there wouldn't even be an NBA for these guys to be making $200 million in in the first place!
ngl goliath made me cry a bit at the end, amazing show, and good video about his offensive effect, I think people see him too much as a ball hogger, when at times he relied on his teamates and they let him down, and he was still averaging more assists then like shaq, and no one arguibly critisizes shaq
I don't think Wilt was necessarily better when he scored less, but his teams certainly were. Having one of the best rebounders of all time shooting fade away jumpers out of a paint stuffed full of defenders is just really inefficient offense. The best comparison I can think of is David Robinson, he wasn't better after they got Tim Duncan, but his team could much better exploit his size and athleticism when he wasn't also expected to carry the offense. There are a lot of things that also improve the game outcomes that don't show up in the stats. For instance, Wilt boxes out Bill and neither of them get the rebound, instead of Bill picking up an easy board if Wilt has to take a shot. Basically, if you force your big to carry the offense, you lose a lot of the reason you have bigs on your team in the first place.
@@HomoErectus311 disagree. Shaq could play and dominate the way he did because his teams' gameplan was to slow down the pace and make it a game of attrition. You need a platoon of versatile defensive guys to help Shaq out on defense at the perimeter. As well as a dynamic scoring wing to kick out as a passing threat. By the 2nd half Shaq has tired out the opposing teams bigs and guys who had to body him up and were working with potentially high foul counts. That gave the wing players a green light to attack them at the basket.
@@t4d0W The biggest difference was Shaq played when it was the peak for physical contact allowed, which was a massive advantage for Shaq. Wilt played when it was at its lowest level allowed, almost no contact.
Congratulations @thinking basketball. I feel like your "Greatest Peak" series sparked a new wave of basketball debates and interests. Cant wait to see what's next!!
Can you do the same for Jordan's high assist PG period? I believe it was a few months in 89. He was made into a PG for a few months and averaged a trip dub and lowered his scoring to 27 points if I remember correctly, and then Phil Jackson took over to make Jordan a scorer again.
During that stretch, MJ was actively stalking triple doubles. He'd even go to the scorer's table to see how much more he needed, and sometimes argue with them if they hadn't given him a counting stat on a given position. It become a nationally covered sports story, and he was openly quoted about telling his teammates they needed to help him get one more rebound or assist, etc. It became a controversy, and eventually the league ordered him to stop going to the scorer's table. So he was not getting those triple doubles naturally, letting the stats come to him. Instead, he was manufacturing them, in an attempt to get the attention that Magic's natural triple doubles got. As it turned out, he got half his career triple doubles in that short stretch of time.
The floor spacing was terrible back them. It's amazing how much the 3 point line has opened up the court. If anyone thinks that Wilt would struggle in today's game, think about how much more effective he could be with all that spacing.
@@jamalwalker04 That's more style of play for the team than style of play for the league. If you try to play him like Giannis in an iso spread scenario, yeah he's going to struggle. If you put him in a high post elbow with back cutters, like he's used to playing in his day, but with better spacing, he's going to do a lot better. He would do great on the Warriors or the Kings with their offense. Coaching and offensive style matters a lot.
I think Wilts Fade was more than enough to excel today... and he had, however inconsistent it was - a nice jump shot and I've seen footage of him hitting a several 18 footers. Accounts insist on his 100 pt game, he was consistently hitting jumpers from the top of the key.
LOL you would be amazed that despite the 3-point line being adopted since the '79-'80 season, it would take 3 decades moving forward with a different cycle of development from the amateur level to weaponize it and change the modern game. It really shows that much of the NBAs little known changes in rules would take much longer to have a lasting impact. But at the same time spacing concepts have always been developing even as the half court space wasn't fully utilized.
@@t4d0W Well the Princeton offense has been around for even longer. It wasn't really adapted to the NBA until Mike Brown tried it with the Lakers and got fired 6 games into the season. Then he goes to the Warriors as an assistant and the rest is history. Now he's running his version of it at Sacramento and the Kings are relevant again for the first time in 20 years. You're right, evolution in the NBA is slow. For whatever reason it's a league that resists change. Lately it seems more like trend chasing and people are copying the wrong things. Shooting a ton of 3's is only part of the Warriors success and only because they have the best and second best 3 point shooter of all time. I would say that their floor spacing, motion offense, and switchable defenders played just as much of a part of their success if not more. IMO if teams adopted more high post elbow sets with off ball action (pretty similar to what Wilt is doing) they would find more success than trying to jack up bad 3's. I'm all for better shooting and utilizing the 3 point shot. But some of these teams are giving guys the green light on some pretty bad shots.
Any future videos on Oscar Robertson or Jerry West? I know little about them. Most talk about Bill and Wilt but dont hear much about others around their generation.
@@jonjuko8859 Sure it would. Gilmore used it and so did other players. Recency bias. You do know that Wilt is just as tall as Porzingis and more athletic than Giannis or Lebron. Right? That list heights are BS? The average barefoot height of a center last season was 6'8.86" tall. Wilt was a little over 7'1" tall barefoot. Lebron is NOT 6'9" tall. There are only a few players taller than Wilt in the league right now and none of them would have made a team in the 60's. Go watch video of Wilt next to Ewing and Shaq. He's taller than both of them. Hakeem would have been listed as 6'9" tall in the 60's, not 7 foot like in the 90's. Tweens.
@@oldeskoolnewsreels9927 it’s not a height thing, you can’t bring the ball through a defender at that height now. They’re just going to bump you with their chest or go vertical.
@@jonjuko8859 I've seem Embiid use it. Not quite as elegantly, but he's used it. And he's shorter and way less athletic than Wilt. Artis retired in 1988.
The reality was that Wilt was way too good. On his team, he would be by far the best scorer, the best rebounder, the best passer and the best blocker. That’s absolutely insane to conceive these days. However, basketball is a 5-men team sports, so the other four players on the court also need to usefully contribute. Now it’s easy to understand, what did Wilt need to do to get the best out of the other four players on the court? Given the talents of the other players on the court, he needed to shoot less, pass more and keep rebounding and blocking!
@@RLSmith-jt8qj Basically yes, because the rules at the time did not allow Wilt to play like Shaq (ie using his body and strength to bulldoze over people inside the paint for an easy slam). So if you watch Wilt’s footage, he actually played with skills and finesse (eg turnaround jumpers, bank shots and finger rolls, etc) - very different from the style that Shaq played. So despite the unbelievable level of dominance Wilt has achieved in any case, he could have absolutely destroyed the league by winning chips every single year for his team, if he was actually allowed to use his body and strength and adopt a play style like Shaq’s. That being the case, he didn’t need to share the ball with his team, everyone else on his team could just watch him play as their job would simply be to bring the ball across the court and pass it to Wilt.
Wilt never did squats. His legs, especially his calves, were toothpicks. When he weighed 240, that worked. When he weighed over 300, it was like carrying a 60 pound backpack. He lost his agility. However, he got a lot smarter. His last season, he set at least one screen far away from the basket on every play (I had season tickets and watched away games on TV). He really learned to play offense without the ball.
When was he ever supposedly 240? In high school? The basketball-reference page for his rookie year, '59-'60, lists him at 275. (I seem to remember 265 was his rookie weight, but I am not sure.) When I saw him in person vs. Portland in the early '70s (so there was no camera 'adding pounds' interfering with judging his physique ), he was not at all thin in his legs. He was very well proportioned (including an upper body that looked like a middle linebacker), and not like a thin stilt I was expecting. If he had smallish calves, he had those for his entire career, and still had ups enough playing over 300 vs young Lew Alcindor to block two sky hooks straight up (on one Bucks' possession).
Interesting thought, I mean he had to have strong legs to jump that high and he was a track and field star and also volley ball star later in life so I think he always had strong legs. Not sure he ever weighed 240 though I'd say at least 20 pounds heavier at his highest.
Wrong in many ways wilt never lost his agility wilt was very agility and very quick after retirement at the age of 37 wilt chamberlain might not be huge but his legs were far stronger than shaq legs wilt had higher vertical leap than shaq and could easily squat over over 670 pounds and deadlift 675
Looking forward to this.Would love to see this series feature some opinions and stories from other great basketball analysts/historians. Ie Jackie MacMullan, Bob Ryan, and Bill Simmons.
Kind of mind blowing I've never seen any big man emulate his flips and floaters. I guess it's because the footage is too old for any young kid to study, but seems like it would be effective today.
Well part of emulation for every generations of ballers is that 'cool' factor, how easy it is to master and effectiveness. I watched the J Kyle Mann's video about Kareem and the unstoppable Sky Hook and he gives a perspective as to why its such an iconic shot but also unique to Kareem himself. Many of the young bigs don't even have a post game and in some cases have more perimeter oriented skills. So the hook shot is a foreign idea especially with how they can try blend that shooting motion to playmaking.
Wilt would be as good or better than Shaq if they both played in the 90’s and 00’s. Shaq May have the offensive edge because he had much better footwork but Wilts passing would offset some of that difference and Wilts defense would put him above Shaq. Wilt was 1 inch taller and 1 inch longer reach, wilt could jump much higher, wilt was faster up and down the court, and both were about equal on lateral (side to side) movement.
He got lucky that year Kareem was hurt. Bucks played at a higher win-pace than them with Kareem on the court. And Kareem was the better player. In 1975, Oscar contentiously retired and Jabbar broke his hand punching a basket stanchion to start the year. Dandridge regressed and the Bucks played at a 49-win pace (2.6 SRS) when healthy. They also lost Curtis Perry to the expansion draft (New Orleans Jazz), and traded Lucius Allen for Jim Price-who would only play 41 games. As a scorer who drew constant defensive attention, the offensive drop-off (of approximately 7 efficiency points) without Jabbar is understandable. Dandridge barely fell off without Kareem in that 17 game span because he could create his own offense *21/8/3 on 51% TS, 9/19 FGM & 3/4 FTM per game* but a finisher like Jon McGlocklin - a deadly outside shooter at the time - was reliant on an offensive vortex like Jabbar to draw his man away and create easy looks. Bob only missed two games after Kareem came back *(Cap went for 37/14/8 with 4 BLK on 62% TS--Win & 50/15/11/1/3 on 68% TS--Win)* In those games without Kareem, Milwaukee stumbled along at a 28-win pace (-4.5 SRS). With Kareem in the lineup, they played at a 49 Win Pace (35-30 in 65 GP). 49 Wins puts them where again in the West? 1st…after Golden State (48-34) and the Chicago Bulls (47-35), as well as tied with the Buffalo Braves for the 2nd best overall record. He left a solid footprint on defense too, which jibes with the box score and his positive tendencies on tape. In addition to the 6 point drop in opponent shooting efficiency from his missed games in ’75, his man defense was a plus as well. By ’75, Kareem was said to be brooding, no longer wanting to play in Milwaukee for off-court reasons. *He was deeply effected at that point by the 1973 Hanafi Muslim massacre.* ________________________ ____________________ In the 1975 season (38-44), the Bucks were 9th in offense, 8th in defense, 8th in net rating, 13th in points scored per game & 5th in points allowed per game. Kareem only played the last 65 of 82 games where they were 35-30 with him & 3-14 without him in the first 17 games of the season. They finished 4th in the Midwest Division & tied for 6th in the conference. It should be noted that the DET Pistons in their division @40-42 & NYK in the Atlantic Division in the East @40-42 both made the playoffs as the final seed (5th). Kareem averaged 30/14/4/1/3 in 42 MPG on 51% FG (13/24 per game) & 76% FT (5/7 per game) coming in 5th in MVP Kareem was 3rd in PPG, 5th in RPG, 1st in BPG, T-18th in APG, T-16th in SPG, 3rd in BLK%, 9th in TREB%, 4th in DREB%, 4th in EFG%, T-11th in TS%, 2nd in MPG, 2nd in WS (6th in OWS-8th in DWS), & T-5th in Defensive Rating that season. 🤷🏾♂️
To be honest, I’ve usually dismissed a lot of Ben Taylor’s takes on Wilt because I think he misses the mark or is too narrow in what he values or he unfairly delegitimizes, etc. But I have to acquiesce to the quality of this video. It covers most of the ground it should and there’s not much I can disagree with. Great job.
Wilt was almost too strong for his good. He couldnt shoot jumpshots because he would put too much power behind it, its why he shot fadeaways with 1 arm.
Dude those Celtics teams were stacked. It's not just Wilt. Jerry West with Gail Goodrich, Elgin Baylor, and later Wilt dropped 9 finals to the Celtics. The Celtics were loaded with talent.
@@Davivd2that is not the reason he dropped. Y’all have to stop that. Most of those series went the distance. He had ample opportunities to beat those teams and alot do the time it came down to circumstance, bad luck, bad coaching, injury, or wilt just flat out choking. It was never as simple as Boston just being flat out better.
How good was wilt? Someone who’s defense was as good as his offense and who’s rebounding was even better than his offense and defense in a time where it was the most hof comp at the center position in the postseason, beat the most numerous of hof teams the most times, a time where you couldn’t back down punish or wrist carry or take extra steps or as easy as what counts as a rebound or assist and the highest pace ball movement iq and most track and field and high jump record setting nba athletes of any other era in a less team league only accepting the best of the best from overseas, aba, streetball, and college into the nba, wilt dominated in every way over all the best players under these circumstances in this era even when completely out of his prime against those in their prime and has dominated guys he caught at the tail end of his prime far worse than Kareem or any other goat candidate was able to dominate those same guys in the peak of their prime so by far Wilt Chamberlain was the goat undisputedly Wilts peak was 67 btw and he was far stronger than shaq and anyone else in history. No one comes close to his feats of strength and stamina for that matter let alone versatility in offense and defense
is this hinting at a counter part "Defensive Legends" series? It would be so cool to see how defensive powerhouses have evolved
I’ve been waitin for this one fr gotta do prime Dwight Ben Dennis fasho
@@DeeKAAM Could include perimeter defenders like MJ, Payton, Smart.
@@jdapaul1351Anthony Mason should lowkey be snuck in there too. Dude could reliably switch from guarding Shaq to Nick Van Exel. He's the main reason MJ hated playing against the Knicks in the 90's.
@@jdapaul1351blud snuck in smart
Why not y'all mentioning the Arguably Defensive Goats in the likes of Hakeem and Tim Duncan
3:16. Thank you for indicating why Wilt couldn't play too physically on offense. Casual fans don't know this.
If he was able to play in the 90s he’d be the best big of all time. His defense is extremely underrated as well as his skill set. Put him in an era where he can best utilize his physical gifts it’s hard for me to see anyone dominating more than him
@@kingjaydex7464see this is the hyperbole that messes up wilt in conversations.
@@TheIcemanthomasow is it hyperbole? He’s 7’1 (allegedly 7’3 which seems more believable in pictures) with a 40-45 inch vert, Shaq like strength, the speed of a wing, and he had a refined post game with good passing chops.
Defensively nobody would’ve scored on him and he’d likely be the best rebounder of all time if not top 3. He’s already giving you all time great impact defensively and his offense in the 90s would be Prime Shaq like. That 2 way impact would put him top 3 all time at worst
Fans in general has zero clue about past rules... Even when discussing the 1990s basketball.
@@kingjaydex7464 nothing u said means anything in terms of what he would be able to produce on a basketball court. This isn’t track and field. His physical measurables are great but they don’t mean u can predict how great he would be in another. Not to say he wouldn’t be great, but y’all have to stop with this notion that he’d be far and away the best based on things that have nothing to do with basketball and the way it is played across eras. Hypotheticals can’t be proven and have zero basis besides what u think and not what u actually know would happen.
What is so underrated in Wilt's game is that he is the father of fadeaways. Sad that he was mostly remembered as someone closely resembling Shaq.
That is not the most underrated part of wilts game
He wasnt allowed to play like Shaq, if you lowered your shoulder in a defender it's an offensive foul.
@@TheIcemanthomas What evidence would change your mind?
Seriously people have no idea wilt played absolutely nothing like shaq. They just hear the (mostly fake) stories about his athleticism and physical traits and assume he was just a bruising big
@@jooyichenthere really isn’t any evidence needed for that. I just think his defense and passing are the things that don’t get talked about as much. Most of his highlights showcase his fades and finger rolls
I liked the attention brought to Hal Greer. That guy has been all but forgotten and he had some real game. People need to put some respect on his name.
Did he really bring attention to hal Greer?
Greer and Cunningham were offensive killers for the 76ers, lethal during their title contention years
@@BoosterGoldEarth6yes he did unless you watched this video with ear muffs on
@Smoothyoki Hal Greer, Chet Walker and Billy Cunningham along with wilt they won the most regular season games 69-13 and broke the stranglehold Boston had on title runs
As a child I was fortunate enough to see how Greer and Wilt play. I'll never forget how Hal Greer would drive to the corner like it was a layup and shoot, which would now be a three,with a high percentage.
Hope this series is as successful as the Greatest Peaks series!
Personally I can't wait for the Jokic and Giannis Greatest Peaks.
@@heavylobster4339Giannis ain't an all time great offensive player
@@CMdidntdoit no, but he does have an all time peak for sure
@@AlexBrown-xp7mtthis isn't what that series is about
@@heavylobster4339Yes ! But i think these episodes will only come out in like 2-3 years MINIMUM because they are only 28, they are in the middle of their prime … And i think Kawhi could also have an episode because it’s only the best peak not best career and his peak was higher than Kobe for exemple. Embiid could also have an episode, monster regular season player, most points per minutes of all time, if he just get 1 chip or 2-3 deep playoffs run were he is as dominant as he is in the regular season he could have an episode .
Thank you for the mention, I am happy I could provide even an insignificant value for the creation of this video!
@cesarquint256 Thank you, I really appreciate that comment.
One of the things that amazes me about Wilt was even though his post moves were a handful, the ones he did were effective for him. That fadeaway always is a sight to see. Can't wait for the rest of the offensive legends.
It’s similar to Giannis or Shaq, in that they were so unstoppable at a few moves there was no reason to do anything else. Giannis however, unlike Shaq has a similar ability to Wilt to go up and over a guy and roll the ball in over the basket, although Giannis does it on the move.
Digging the idea of this series, can’t wait for an eventual episode on Kd hopefully.
I don't think he's going to double-dip on players he already did in Greatest Peaks. I strongly suspect it'll be players like Nash, Dirk, Wade and Penny (he's alluded to making videos about some of them) - not quite good enough to make the first series, but all-time offensive weapons
@@marco5030I hope he does go over players twice and does a offensive and defensive list
Hope he does harden
@@donovanjames19808yeah, it would be stupid to not make videos on Magic, Steph, MJ etc. if it’s a series about offensive legends. A jokic video is probably in the works too
It will def be like dirk and nash and others who never got a greatest peaks
Theres so much legend behind wilt's absurd box score but no one uses the context of the era and the teams he played in. Thats' why this channel is my favourite, always trying to put an unbiased viewpoint and find the truth
Not just that but correlating/debunking what people took from the box score and put it by the eye test based on what film existed. And ultimately tying in concepts that do make sense. Like having a non-versatile offense generated from one player definitely needed more playmaking to offset their non efficient output to create a true team winning gameplan.
There is no truth and theres much bias on this channel. You're just too much of a modern m0r0n to see that
@@t4d0W another m0r0n
@@t4d0W they dont have advance knowledge of the game yet. They played the rules, and he was the beast. What we can learn about wilt with this analytics, we know wilt will score 30, with an unlimited potential of defense, rebounds and block shots. He will always will be a beast on Offense and Defense, not even LBJ can claim.
I think this is the most comprehensive WIlt Chamberlain video i have ever seen.
Holy shit sooooo much footage :O
Thinking Basketball spoke about a Penny Hardaway video coming, almost two years ago! I think he also has talked about doing one on Nash - and referred to Wade and Dirk as his two closest cuts for the Greatest Peaks series! Hopefully we get to see most, if not all of these guys!
WADE & DIRK WOULD BE BANGER VIDEOS💯😮💨
I believe he said that he thinks Penny Hardaway is one of the 20 greatest offensive players ever so there is a chance he gets featured in this series
Giannis deserves a greatest peaks
from the intro looks like Reggie and Manu are also getting a video
@@tridra5714 no he doesn’t
From what I've seen from Wilt's footage, highlights, etc., he was a finesse and highly skilled player rather than just an overwhelming physical presence. These fadeaways and finger rolls are sweet ⭐
I agree, but it’s important to remember that Wilt wasn’t allowed to be an overwhelming physical presence because of the rules
Ooh yes. Another excellent series by Thinking Basketball. I love these deep dives into different players. I can't wait for the inevitable episode on Steve Nash (fingers crossed).
Me too
Dirk First people don't give him any respect. There are people who deadass think K.A.T is better
He loves Steve nash, he will be here
Greatest peaks is my favorite series on TH-cam. This feels like Christmas. I am literally crying tears of joy. I would miss my sons football game to watch this series.
As a fan having the pleasure of watching Wilt play his changes were for obvious reasons. Early on his teams had less talent therefore he was required to score. And score he did. The records speak for themselves. Later, particularly in the late 60s he finally had a complete team. The 68 Sixers set win records at the time, as did the early 70s Lakers. Both teams didn't need Wilt to score they needed his defensive presence and his rebounding prowess. Wilt rose to the occasion and copped two titles in the process. In my humble opinion and almost 60yrs. of watching, I can say Wilt is the greatest to ever play the game. The NBA changed rules specifically to stop the man's total dominance. The game played today is a result of that, minus the three point line of course. No player in NBA history has had to deal with rule changes specifically aimed at that player besides Wilton Norman Chamberlain.
I agree 100percent. Wilt would wear Shaq out in the second quarter. He still holds over 60 NBA records. He was on a whole other level.
Yes, we like these deep dives a lot better than the day to day single game analysis where we try to make a narrative out of something that is so short term and therefore almost solely a result of natural variation
This is great. Just today I was hoping you’d cover more pre-1977 stars.
The offensive foul thing somehow could've held back Wilt. Had he been allowed to be aggressive in the paint like Shaq did, no one would ever defeat him.
He could still get beat. But he also was a fairly gentle guy most of the time. There are stories from multiple players who played with and against him who tell of someone going up to block some dunk of Wilt's and rather than throw it down as hard as he could, they'd describe how he let up and went soft because he knew he could break their arm, and the board, he if tried.
Some give and take here as well though. Defenders couldn’t really body him up and make contact like they could when guarding Shaq either. Part of why it was so hard to officiate Shaq because you could literally call a foul almost every trip up the floor, whether it was offensive or defensive.
So a less nice version of Wilt using his full strength with looser rules could dunk his way to 100 points every night?
@@airgordo4 no defenders were big enough to body Shaq.
he didn't need to play like that. Did u not see the offensive interference put backs where he got a large portion of his points?
After you trashed him during the bill Russell and wilt segment, I'm happy you finally made an individual video of him
My Goat. With proper coaching earlier in his career and some more playoff teammate help he’d be almost universally undisputed.
He was almost drafted by Auerbach & the Celtics (who already had Russell).
They were initially friendly with another, but Red found him to be "a headache" to coach, because a young Wilt didn't get why he'd pass when he was unstoppable with the ball?
imagine Russell & Chamberlain in the front court together?
Game over.
@@88949597they legitimately might have never lost a game, outside of an absolute heater from an opponent. But even then there was no three point shot, making this tougher.
@@88949597 No way that's true. How could Boston draft him? Philly drafted Wilt as a territorial pick. (Why his high school -- Overbrook -- counted for that I don't quite understand, but it did.)
I’m so excited for this series! I think there’s so much context that stats will never capture. But in terms of “the eye test” Wilt is about as good as they come.
Shutup kid
Remember to pace yourself during this series! I know you struggled with burnout last time you did a series like this, so take your time. You got this, and I’m hype for the series!
Seeing the title and then seeing Episode 1 made me very giddy. This channel is amazing.
was rewatching greatest peaks and then I saw this was released - super excited for the rest of the series (and maybe one day a Defensive Legends series!)
You underrated Wilt keeping him out of your greatest peaks series and using him as a foil to make Russell's case.
Great work on the wilt documentary Ben!!! You truly are a legend to diehards of the sport of basketball. I've learned a lot from you, and it was cool to see you on a showtime documentary!!
If he a legend then you have very low standards.
I CANT WAIT FOR THIS SERIES!! I wasn’t around for the greatest peaks so I’m super excited for a new one. You guys have the best analysis of any channel by far so I can’t wait for this! Much love from the UK
Our favorite historical basketball analysis series is BACK! On a side note, it would be fascinating to see Wilt playing in today's NBA, with modern training regimen, modern tactical thinking, and modern rule sets. He's just so freakishly built that I think if he grows up in a modern basketball environment, he could be a peak AD type of defensive player, and a Giannis type of offensive player, plus the potential in play-making.
It don't get no better than "the Dipper"
Crazy there's video on TH-cam that analyzing 60s NBA this deep. Inspiring channel
Would like to see more videos about players from this era. West, Barry, russell etc
Slick Rick
Yes another series is exactly what we need. I still watch greatest peaks episodes on a damn near weekly basis.
The Greatest Peaks was one of my favorite basketball videos ever so I'm very excited for this.
This is one of the best analytic videos I know, on any topic. I watched Wilt for all those years, and he was indeed stiff and clunky, and repetitious. It's also true that the rules as enforced back then wouldn't allow him to use power moves underneath, a la Shaq. Overall, the very best players of the early sixties were nearly as good as the best players now in many areas of the game (think "Jerry West"), but the game as a whole wasn't as fluid, partly because of the weaker outside shooting and, to some extent, because of the less creative ball handling (carry, anyone?).
Wilt chamberlain was stiff and clunky when he started lifting alot of weight yet he was still far more athletic than lebron James
LMAO 20:00 "he's quick to reset to Greer here and let him go to work" *airballs* HAHAHHAHAHAA
This series is gonna be good! Happy that you’re doing something like this again.
I have never been so hyped for NBA content in the middle of the off season! Let's go!
14:55 yeah Wilt had trouble scoring because they double him. But the League can also change the rules so defenders can't leave their man like they did for Jordan to succeed. Just like Wilt said, "They change the rules for Jordan to dominate, they change the rules for Wilt to slow down". I think these changes should be mentioned in this series as this is a huge factor why players dominate offensively. It's unfair to just compare numbers out of context.
It wasnt that they couldnt leave their man. Plenty of teams doubled Jordan. But the difference is they couldnt rush back to their man. Jordan faced a lot of similar defense and he didnt have the defensive 3 second. The only rule I would say that helped him was the goltending, as that hurt bigs a bit down low.
@@jasonvargas4798 "...they couldnt rush back to their man."
I don't recall any rule against this. In fact they HAD to rush back to their man if they gave up on the double team.
@@gandydancer9710 Sorry I misspoke, what I meant was that they couldn't play the lane, they had to commit either way.
Thanks for this. Wilt was amazing. Can't wait to see more.
Oh god I’ve been waiting for this for a while. Congrats Ben keep up the quality content
Wilt was a pretty good ballhandler for his size, carrying was still a violation in the 60s. look at him with the Globetrotters where he was allowed to dribble like modern players
He’s a non ball handler by modern standards
Not really. Especially with his inability to put the ball on the floor and blend playmaking with his shot making. And he's not gonna try put the ball on the floor in traffic either. Which is why his moves are pretty decisive but safe around 5 to 10 ft around the rim. The advantage is he's bigger than anyone so he's getting that offensive rebound and the putback.
@jonjuko8859 you have no idea what are you talking carrying wasn't allowed in the 60s wilt would be a even better ball handled today
@@t4d0Whe could play point guard so you just hating
After a brutal cut from the Greatest Peaks series, Ben finally found a reason to do an video essay about Reggie Miller
Excited for another historically-oriented series. Enjoy your work
Hell yea new series! Crossing my fingers for a Steve Nash episode!
I've been waiting years for a Steve Nash video. Hope we finally get it!
He's definitely getting one.
Dirk, Wade, Oscar Robertson all need ep
Hell yeah, new Thinking Basketball series
I had the priviledge to watch Chamberlain battle against Russell, Reed, Unseld and Jabbar. I adored those who battled against Chamberlain, but with the wisdom that comes from life I now admit that I must agree with Russell. Wilt was the greatest player I ever saw. I will say, that in my elder years I have come to love the incredible talents and tem play of Jokic, he somehow reminds me of a combination of all the great centers I have enjoyed watching...except without the great jumping ability! : )
I just watched the intro and I already know this new series is going to be amazing
More than anyone in NBA history, I would want to see Wilt in the modern game with new shoes and training.
I don’t think there’s a soul in the NBA who could stop him if he played today.
I think Jokic Embiid is modern day Wilt/Russell.
Jokic might be the quieter centre with less explosive athleticism, but he makes his teammates better like Bill. Embiid is the statistical marvel who has all the natural physical tools to be a Wilt stand in.
So the question would be - would modern Wilt/Ewing (Embiid) be the better counter, or a more selfless centre like Jokic defeat Wilt by playing 5v1.
I considered Gobert, but I think Wilt can playmake if he needs to, or power through up top.
And no, the mini centres won't stop him, and they can't really run him out of the court, because Wilt is kind of an ideal small ball/run and gun 5, who would fit disgustingly on a modern Warriors/Harden Rockets team.
I still prefer Jokic over Embiid here, but it's a pick your poison situation.
@@blackjacktrialnah. Russell was different to jokic. It's jokic that's more like 67 wilt
@@blackjacktrial That must the worst double comparison ever. Bill was no where near Jokic offensive arsenal and Jokic has nothing of the deffensive prowess that Russell had. And please, Embiid can´t rebound pass or read the game as Wilt did (not to mention his lack of availability)... and Wilt never profited FT as Embiid does.
Prime Wilt was the fastest and strongest player on the court, and possessed the most endurance. Led the league in points, rebounds, blocks. Nobody close then. Nobody wd be close now.
@@bobomaigret5430 100% Agreed
Begging for T-Mac episode. So excited for another one of these series
I would love if we could see him play in the modern era.
Cool to see this video put out! This was one of the first chapters in the 'Thinking Basketball' book I read a few years back. Worth the read for anyone who enjoys analytical readings.
I love how you pointed out the league rules at the time, prohibiting Wilt from just bullying everyone under the basket every single play.
If he was allowed to do that, he would've averaged many more points. I'd say Wilt is more underrated than anything.
Wilt also had the benefit of offensive interference so it’s a wash.
@@mkbzam That’s my mistake then I thought in the video they said he benefitted from it.
@@mkbzam I’ll do some research as well
@@mkbzam no hes doing it in the video.
@@chrisstfort7 Yeah but he didn't do that every single play..But if he was allowed to, he easily could've moved everyone under the basket and just dunked on them every single play until they triple teamed him.
The only reason Bill Russell even stood a chance vs Wilt Chamberlain is because Wilt couldn't use his crazy strength and size to just move the much smaller Bill
Fantastic work Ben. patreon exclusive pod discussing video and research in detail would be amazing especially as content for off season.
Great video mate, looking forward for the documentary 👍
One of the most basic things which made Wilt great was that he was able to play almost all game long, or even all-game long a lot of the time. He was so big and long that he often didn't need to play with maximum intensity, and this allowed him to put in very, very long minutes, allowing him to have an even bigger impact on both ends of the court, and also meaning that the team didn't really even need a back-up centre. He was big, but he wasn't actually especially heavy relative to the length of his frame (and his arms), and he kept himself in great shape, and all of this added together to allow him to have great endurance and durability (he rarely missed games due to injury, which is quite remarkable for someone of his size).
Big players are often thought of as being less durable, but I think it isn't necessarily an unavoidable feature of big players. I just think that teams are more likely to give big players a chance even if they do get injured a lot, and more likely to give them a chance when they're healthy again after being out for a long time.
Nah he got burned in transition all the time by Russell
It's really interesting to see the changes in basketball, I would say that the rules in basketball changed the most since its inception compared to other sports. This makes it even harder to compare players from different eras, even if you put a player today straight back to Wilt era, I think they would struggle a lot compared to what people think.
Thank you! People think that players today would dominate because of athleticism, or that guys back then were average at best because they couldn't do all these dribble moves today, not taking into account that the rules limit what they know now as second nature. Kyrie Irving would get a travel called every play back then because you couldn't carry the ball, you couldn't put your hand underneath the ball. The step back would likely be called traveling in assuming. The offensive player couldn't initiate contact... The shooting and dribbling is much better today, but that's more so allowances in the rules than people think, vs strictly evolution. I think it'd be much harder to un-learn what you've trained for your entire career, vs. new things allowed that are introduced to you, and have time to learn for the first time.
guys were almost as fast & just as athletic (more impressive to me for playing in flat converse) just certain moves hasn't been invented & a lot of things we take for granted today weren't around.
so why would you expect Bob Cousey to dribble with his left, or the average player to be able to shoot from 35 feet, when it didn't make any sense to, and no one had done it yet?
Yes the game evolved, but I really hate the dismissive attitude towards legends who paved the way for everyone now, just because they played 60 years ago and assume they wouldn't last a second today!
If Joker could play in the 80s, then Wilt most certainly would do just fine today - especially with modern advancements & a style that pulls bigs away from the paint.
If it weren't for Mikan in the beginning, Wilt, & Russell, & countless others that have been forgotten, there wouldn't even be an NBA for these guys to be making $200 million in in the first place!
Thank god the rules changed cause this is horrendous basketball. These mfs don’t even know how to shoot
ngl goliath made me cry a bit at the end, amazing show, and good video about his offensive effect, I think people see him too much as a ball hogger, when at times he relied on his teamates and they let him down, and he was still averaging more assists then like shaq, and no one arguibly critisizes shaq
I don't think Wilt was necessarily better when he scored less, but his teams certainly were. Having one of the best rebounders of all time shooting fade away jumpers out of a paint stuffed full of defenders is just really inefficient offense. The best comparison I can think of is David Robinson, he wasn't better after they got Tim Duncan, but his team could much better exploit his size and athleticism when he wasn't also expected to carry the offense. There are a lot of things that also improve the game outcomes that don't show up in the stats. For instance, Wilt boxes out Bill and neither of them get the rebound, instead of Bill picking up an easy board if Wilt has to take a shot. Basically, if you force your big to carry the offense, you lose a lot of the reason you have bigs on your team in the first place.
Didn’t apply to Shaq. Shaq>Wilt
@@HomoErectus311when was Shaq shooting fadeaways?
@@HomoErectus311 disagree. Shaq could play and dominate the way he did because his teams' gameplan was to slow down the pace and make it a game of attrition. You need a platoon of versatile defensive guys to help Shaq out on defense at the perimeter. As well as a dynamic scoring wing to kick out as a passing threat. By the 2nd half Shaq has tired out the opposing teams bigs and guys who had to body him up and were working with potentially high foul counts. That gave the wing players a green light to attack them at the basket.
His early teammates were good too. He just didnt let them be their best version by demanding more attention then his teammates
@@t4d0W The biggest difference was Shaq played when it was the peak for physical contact allowed, which was a massive advantage for Shaq. Wilt played when it was at its lowest level allowed, almost no contact.
I got so hyped when I saw this video in my feed. I’m looking forward to all of the next episodes!
I know this is a Wilt video but this video made me a Hal Greer fan lol Seems like his game was ahead of his time
Congratulations @thinking basketball. I feel like your "Greatest Peak" series sparked a new wave of basketball debates and interests. Cant wait to see what's next!!
had never seen the phrase “best peak” “greatest peak” until that series. I now see it not only in basketball discussion, but other sports as well.
Can you do the same for Jordan's high assist PG period? I believe it was a few months in 89.
He was made into a PG for a few months and averaged a trip dub and lowered his scoring to 27 points if I remember correctly, and then Phil Jackson took over to make Jordan a scorer again.
During that stretch, MJ was actively stalking triple doubles. He'd even go to the scorer's table to see how much more he needed, and sometimes argue with them if they hadn't given him a counting stat on a given position. It become a nationally covered sports story, and he was openly quoted about telling his teammates they needed to help him get one more rebound or assist, etc. It became a controversy, and eventually the league ordered him to stop going to the scorer's table.
So he was not getting those triple doubles naturally, letting the stats come to him. Instead, he was manufacturing them, in an attempt to get the attention that Magic's natural triple doubles got. As it turned out, he got half his career triple doubles in that short stretch of time.
I disagree @@phillipschuman4307 , look at his effectiveness, PER, and win shares. This was not Westbrook, this stretch was something special
Man, seeing Ginobili here is just amazing. Can't wait to see his video.
Wilt was much improved shooting underhanded in his one season doing so.
yeeeeessssss! This is my favorite series y'all do!
The floor spacing was terrible back them. It's amazing how much the 3 point line has opened up the court. If anyone thinks that Wilt would struggle in today's game, think about how much more effective he could be with all that spacing.
He would have to develop a shot though because I could see him getting done like 2019 Giannis and a wall being built around
@@jamalwalker04 That's more style of play for the team than style of play for the league. If you try to play him like Giannis in an iso spread scenario, yeah he's going to struggle. If you put him in a high post elbow with back cutters, like he's used to playing in his day, but with better spacing, he's going to do a lot better. He would do great on the Warriors or the Kings with their offense. Coaching and offensive style matters a lot.
I think Wilts Fade was more than enough to excel today... and he had, however inconsistent it was - a nice jump shot and I've seen footage of him hitting a several 18 footers. Accounts insist on his 100 pt game, he was consistently hitting jumpers from the top of the key.
LOL you would be amazed that despite the 3-point line being adopted since the '79-'80 season, it would take 3 decades moving forward with a different cycle of development from the amateur level to weaponize it and change the modern game. It really shows that much of the NBAs little known changes in rules would take much longer to have a lasting impact. But at the same time spacing concepts have always been developing even as the half court space wasn't fully utilized.
@@t4d0W Well the Princeton offense has been around for even longer. It wasn't really adapted to the NBA until Mike Brown tried it with the Lakers and got fired 6 games into the season. Then he goes to the Warriors as an assistant and the rest is history. Now he's running his version of it at Sacramento and the Kings are relevant again for the first time in 20 years.
You're right, evolution in the NBA is slow. For whatever reason it's a league that resists change. Lately it seems more like trend chasing and people are copying the wrong things. Shooting a ton of 3's is only part of the Warriors success and only because they have the best and second best 3 point shooter of all time. I would say that their floor spacing, motion offense, and switchable defenders played just as much of a part of their success if not more.
IMO if teams adopted more high post elbow sets with off ball action (pretty similar to what Wilt is doing) they would find more success than trying to jack up bad 3's. I'm all for better shooting and utilizing the 3 point shot. But some of these teams are giving guys the green light on some pretty bad shots.
I need this kind of series, love u ben for this content❤
this channel always produces amazing content.
Wilt is personal GOAT. Thanks for this video.
Any future videos on Oscar Robertson or Jerry West? I know little about them. Most talk about Bill and Wilt but dont hear much about others around their generation.
Always enjoy your videos, still re watch greatest peaks weekly. Love this new idea
I feel like wilt’s up and over fingeroll is a majestic move. Why people often dismiss this when talking about iconic moves?
Because it’s not a move that would work in other era’s
@@jonjuko8859 Sure it would. Gilmore used it and so did other players. Recency bias. You do know that Wilt is just as tall as Porzingis and more athletic than Giannis or Lebron. Right? That list heights are BS? The average barefoot height of a center last season was 6'8.86" tall. Wilt was a little over 7'1" tall barefoot. Lebron is NOT 6'9" tall. There are only a few players taller than Wilt in the league right now and none of them would have made a team in the 60's. Go watch video of Wilt next to Ewing and Shaq. He's taller than both of them. Hakeem would have been listed as 6'9" tall in the 60's, not 7 foot like in the 90's. Tweens.
@@oldeskoolnewsreels9927 it’s not a height thing, you can’t bring the ball through a defender at that height now. They’re just going to bump you with their chest or go vertical.
@@oldeskoolnewsreels9927 When did Gilmore play?…..
@@jonjuko8859 I've seem Embiid use it. Not quite as elegantly, but he's used it. And he's shorter and way less athletic than Wilt. Artis retired in 1988.
woohoo, can't wait for this series!
I would love to see u get into players like jerry west, Oscar Robertson and Moses Malone as well Ben.
U are the best Ben, as always.
The reality was that Wilt was way too good. On his team, he would be by far the best scorer, the best rebounder, the best passer and the best blocker. That’s absolutely insane to conceive these days. However, basketball is a 5-men team sports, so the other four players on the court also need to usefully contribute. Now it’s easy to understand, what did Wilt need to do to get the best out of the other four players on the court? Given the talents of the other players on the court, he needed to shoot less, pass more and keep rebounding and blocking!
How would a mere human guard Wilt?
so in other words. he needed to play like bill russell
@@RLSmith-jt8qj Basically yes, because the rules at the time did not allow Wilt to play like Shaq (ie using his body and strength to bulldoze over people inside the paint for an easy slam). So if you watch Wilt’s footage, he actually played with skills and finesse (eg turnaround jumpers, bank shots and finger rolls, etc) - very different from the style that Shaq played. So despite the unbelievable level of dominance Wilt has achieved in any case, he could have absolutely destroyed the league by winning chips every single year for his team, if he was actually allowed to use his body and strength and adopt a play style like Shaq’s. That being the case, he didn’t need to share the ball with his team, everyone else on his team could just watch him play as their job would simply be to bring the ball across the court and pass it to Wilt.
His playoffs numbers took a huge dip when compared to the regular season. That doesn't happen with MJ, LeBron, Luka...
Wilt never did squats. His legs, especially his calves, were toothpicks. When he weighed 240, that worked. When he weighed over 300, it was like carrying a 60 pound backpack. He lost his agility. However, he got a lot smarter. His last season, he set at least one screen far away from the basket on every play (I had season tickets and watched away games on TV). He really learned to play offense without the ball.
People be saying anything, His legs were extremely strong.
When was he ever supposedly 240? In high school?
The basketball-reference page for his rookie year, '59-'60, lists him at 275. (I seem to remember 265 was his rookie weight, but I am not sure.) When I saw him in person vs. Portland in the early '70s (so there was no camera 'adding pounds' interfering with judging his physique ), he was not at all thin in his legs. He was very well proportioned (including an upper body that looked like a middle linebacker), and not like a thin stilt I was expecting.
If he had smallish calves, he had those for his entire career, and still had ups enough playing over 300 vs young Lew Alcindor to block two sky hooks straight up (on one Bucks' possession).
Interesting thought, I mean he had to have strong legs to jump that high and he was a track and field star and also volley ball star later in life so I think he always had strong legs. Not sure he ever weighed 240 though I'd say at least 20 pounds heavier at his highest.
Wrong in many ways wilt never lost his agility wilt was very agility and very quick after retirement at the age of 37 wilt chamberlain might not be huge but his legs were far stronger than shaq legs wilt had higher vertical leap than shaq and could easily squat over over 670 pounds and deadlift 675
Who tf says this shit HAHHAHA wilt is triathlon he has great legs 😂😂😂
Can't wait to watch this video!
Looking forward to this.Would love to see this series feature some opinions and stories from other great basketball analysts/historians. Ie Jackie MacMullan, Bob Ryan, and Bill Simmons.
I was rewatching greatest peaks yesterday. Perfect timing.
To be fair, JJ’s comment about “firemen and plumbers” wasn’t directed at Wilt Chamberlain. He was trying to aim that disrespect at Bob Cousy.
Well and probably the rest of the nitwits who feel confident using that part of the quotation like geniuses and not knowing the full context of it.
Kind of mind blowing I've never seen any big man emulate his flips and floaters. I guess it's because the footage is too old for any young kid to study, but seems like it would be effective today.
Those flips don’t work in modern era’s all it takes is a bump or a defender to go vertical to stop it
Well part of emulation for every generations of ballers is that 'cool' factor, how easy it is to master and effectiveness. I watched the J Kyle Mann's video about Kareem and the unstoppable Sky Hook and he gives a perspective as to why its such an iconic shot but also unique to Kareem himself. Many of the young bigs don't even have a post game and in some cases have more perimeter oriented skills. So the hook shot is a foreign idea especially with how they can try blend that shooting motion to playmaking.
Wilt would be as good or better than Shaq if they both played in the 90’s and 00’s. Shaq May have the offensive edge because he had much better footwork but Wilts passing would offset some of that difference and Wilts defense would put him above Shaq. Wilt was 1 inch taller and 1 inch longer reach, wilt could jump much higher, wilt was faster up and down the court, and both were about equal on lateral (side to side) movement.
So glad this series came back. I want a top 10 but playoffs and no one on the regular season list for more content
I'm always a good scorer and want to do everything by myself. This is the video I need to level up my game
Head up when you dribble bro
Been waiting for this
Need a video on Rick Barry in 1975. Biggest carry in NBA history
He got lucky that year Kareem was hurt.
Bucks played at a higher win-pace than them with Kareem on the court.
And Kareem was the better player.
In 1975, Oscar contentiously retired and Jabbar broke his hand punching a basket stanchion to start the year.
Dandridge regressed and the Bucks played at a 49-win pace (2.6 SRS) when healthy.
They also lost Curtis Perry to the expansion draft (New Orleans Jazz), and traded Lucius Allen for Jim Price-who would only play 41 games.
As a scorer who drew constant defensive attention, the offensive drop-off (of approximately 7 efficiency points) without Jabbar is understandable.
Dandridge barely fell off without Kareem in that 17 game span because he could create his own offense
*21/8/3 on 51% TS, 9/19 FGM & 3/4 FTM per game*
but a finisher like Jon McGlocklin - a deadly outside shooter at the time - was reliant on an offensive vortex like Jabbar to draw his man away and create easy looks.
Bob only missed two games after Kareem came back
*(Cap went for 37/14/8 with 4 BLK on 62% TS--Win & 50/15/11/1/3 on 68% TS--Win)*
In those games without Kareem, Milwaukee stumbled along at a 28-win pace (-4.5 SRS).
With Kareem in the lineup, they played at a 49 Win Pace (35-30 in 65 GP).
49 Wins puts them where again in the West?
1st…after Golden State (48-34) and the Chicago Bulls (47-35), as well as tied with the Buffalo Braves for the 2nd best overall record.
He left a solid footprint on defense too, which jibes with the box score and his positive tendencies on tape.
In addition to the 6 point drop in opponent shooting efficiency from his missed games in ’75, his man defense was a plus as well.
By ’75, Kareem was said to be brooding, no longer wanting to play in Milwaukee for off-court reasons.
*He was deeply effected at that point by the 1973 Hanafi Muslim massacre.*
________________________
____________________
In the 1975 season (38-44), the Bucks were 9th in offense, 8th in defense, 8th in net rating, 13th in points scored per game & 5th in points allowed per game.
Kareem only played the last 65 of 82 games where they were 35-30 with him & 3-14 without him in the first 17 games of the season.
They finished 4th in the Midwest Division & tied for 6th in the conference. It should be noted that the DET Pistons in their division @40-42 & NYK in the Atlantic Division in the East @40-42 both made the playoffs as the final seed (5th).
Kareem averaged 30/14/4/1/3 in 42 MPG on
51% FG (13/24 per game) & 76% FT (5/7 per game) coming in 5th in MVP
Kareem was 3rd in PPG, 5th in RPG, 1st in BPG, T-18th in APG, T-16th in SPG, 3rd in BLK%, 9th in TREB%, 4th in DREB%, 4th in EFG%, T-11th in TS%, 2nd in MPG, 2nd in WS (6th in OWS-8th in DWS), & T-5th in Defensive Rating that season. 🤷🏾♂️
YES THIS SERIES IS GONNA BE AMAZING
To be honest, I’ve usually dismissed a lot of Ben Taylor’s takes on Wilt because I think he misses the mark or is too narrow in what he values or he unfairly delegitimizes, etc. But I have to acquiesce to the quality of this video.
It covers most of the ground it should and there’s not much I can disagree with.
Great job.
those cleaned up videos of Wilt are awesome!
Please tell me Manu isn't just a cameo
I'm looking forward to this series 🙌🏻
Is that Motherfucking Manu Ginobili I am seeing!!!???? Pleaseeeeeeee give us an episode of Manu I beg you Ben.
This was my favorite part of your book. More scoring does not always equal better offense.
Wilt was almost too strong for his good. He couldnt shoot jumpshots because he would put too much power behind it, its why he shot fadeaways with 1 arm.
congratulations on getting into the show you deserve it !
You didn't mention that his coaches told Wilt he had to score 50 a game to give the team any chance of winning...
He not going to because it does not fit his narrative. He rarely mentioned coaches at all until it came to 1967.
Let's goooo new series!!!!
Hopefully, you discuss him as a playoff performer. I'm confused why he drops.
Because he didn't get to feed on bad teams as much, plus defensive game planning.
His numbers are still historic in the playoffs and most his playoffs games come when he was past his prime.
Dude those Celtics teams were stacked. It's not just Wilt. Jerry West with Gail Goodrich, Elgin Baylor, and later Wilt dropped 9 finals to the Celtics. The Celtics were loaded with talent.
@@brendanbloom3366irrelevant to the point.
@@Davivd2that is not the reason he dropped. Y’all have to stop that. Most of those series went the distance. He had ample opportunities to beat those teams and alot do the time it came down to circumstance, bad luck, bad coaching, injury, or wilt just flat out choking. It was never as simple as Boston just being flat out better.
Was interested in your thoughts on his Lakers seasons. Going to watch the doc now.
How good was wilt? Someone who’s defense was as good as his offense and who’s rebounding was even better than his offense and defense in a time where it was the most hof comp at the center position in the postseason, beat the most numerous of hof teams the most times, a time where you couldn’t back down punish or wrist carry or take extra steps or as easy as what counts as a rebound or assist and the highest pace ball movement iq and most track and field and high jump record setting nba athletes of any other era in a less team league only accepting the best of the best from overseas, aba, streetball, and college into the nba, wilt dominated in every way over all the best players under these circumstances in this era even when completely out of his prime against those in their prime and has dominated guys he caught at the tail end of his prime far worse than Kareem or any other goat candidate was able to dominate those same guys in the peak of their prime so by far Wilt Chamberlain was the goat undisputedly
Wilts peak was 67 btw and he was far stronger than shaq and anyone else in history. No one comes close to his feats of strength and stamina for that matter let alone versatility in offense and defense