Empire of Death sucked. | Doctor Who Review & Prediction |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- In today's video we finish comparing the new season of Doctor Who to my predictions and talking about what I disliked about Empire of Death
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As soon as Kate died, all the tension drained away and never came back. Because I knew, like you, that this story would end in a huge reset, so there was no threat any longer. It just became an exercise in waiting for the inevitable reset, instead of worrying whether anyone would survive. And a Doctor Who season finale that doesn't work is hardly 'subverting expectations'--it's practically a tradition.
Buuuutt.... now we know that predictive tools don't work. So that's useful, at least.
My cats don’t get paid enough to do correct predictions apparently… :P. But yes, I agree completely on the Excercise in waiting. Thanks for watching!
I'd say Kate dying was a holy shit moment, but as soon as Ruby's mum died the tension was lost, and even more so when the entire world was killed.
I asked the petals on a daisy if predictive tools work... and they said NO.
@@vampyricon7026 yeah, if it was written in a way where the Doctor had to prevent the spread that'd have worked better. But they set it up as an instant gotcha moment... Sutekh is everywhere and nothing is gonna survive! he literally wrote himself into a corner intentionally.
I generally agree, though I did think they might kill of Kate (I don't think she's a big enough character for her death to be so significant that it HAD to be undone). But RTD could easily have made the Death Vortex/Black Cloud expand slowly so while it would eventually consume the whole universe, it was escapable in the short run (eg. today UNIT, tomorrow London, Monday Britain, Tuesday the Earth, etc). Fundamentally, we know the Doctor has to win, but there can be casualties along the way - until the death toll gets so ridiculously high we just won't believe it.
Its just clear to me the RTD and the whole production team has had 0 goals for this series, and it shows.
I think they had goals for this season, but those goals were to make things as simple as possible and to drum up social media attention and engagement and both are why the characters and story fall flat.
@@ProtagonistIvy yeah, one comment I saw was that the writing was more about activism than making a good TV show. He makes all these statements about modern society.. and... does so in a way that cripples the TV show's value as entertainment.
about 90% of the fandom are saying it sucked! REALLY sucked.
I think RTD needs to go back to the drawing board.
It’s probably the first time in a long time, at least with this season specifically, that opinions seem almost the same across the board. Which really is indeed a bad sign, haha! And hopefullly it’s not just Russel at the drawing board, I’d love to see more writers involved. Thanks for stopping by.
Never have i felt so much catharsis from a youtube video's title before...
Couldn’t agree more
lol, thanks! Felt a little clickbaity at first but I mean. It cuts to the chase and gets the job done!
Everyone's comments about the bi-generation allowing 15's incarnation to be free from the anxst of previous Doctors and just have "fun" haven't aged well - this has probably been the most emotionally overwraught Doctor we've seen!
Yeah I’d agree there is definitely some tonal inconsistency there, though I suppose you could argue that the Doctor is still more free in the sense that he allows himself to be more openly emotional now
He cries literally every episode
Yeah. Past reasons given now seem to have been nonsense and completely contradictory
@@Ev1L_Scotsman yeah, the epi with the smart mine that detects feelings... he cried so hard the mine was confused....
nah, 15 is in full trauma response mode - over-sharing, being so careless and reckless, crying at everything, refusing to deal with his stuff.
RTD basically wrote terrible scripts this season and the worst was the finale. Never apologise for feelings. I believe negativity is only a bad thing when being unfairly critical otherwise its simply a sense/thought of not liking. Not liking does not equate with being wrong or inappropriate. Can't have the ying without the yang. Excellent review.
I didn’t mind the rest of the season, though I do believe it could’ve benefited from different writers, or perhaps even a writers room at this point. Thank you for the compliment! I just got nervous I think because almost 90% of my feelings were negative lol. Thank you for stopping by!
We didn’t see nearly enough time to see relationship growth to be able to believe that the Doctor and Ruby are now besties. In contrast we were constantly bombarded with evidence of the specialness of Ruby which then came to nothing. RTD presents this as us the viewer making these assumptions, but it wasn’t us, it was his writing that did that.
Agreed, and it stinks because like I said I do love Millie and Ncuti as a duo. They play off of each other really well and they can be super convincing as besties- when we actually get a chance to see them together. But just being besties isn’t enough, we also need to see them grow and get to know each other. Instead it feels like they’re just instantly best friends. And it’s certainly not just on the viewer, the show and marketing played a massive role in playing these things up as important.
It's evident Davies has lost any dramatic sense in his writing. If I didn't know any better I'd think I was watching Dr. Who on The Lifetime Channel known for their superficial and weepy films which leave viewers like myself feeling nothing for the characters and their difficulties. It's not because I don't care but it's done in such an unconvincing and unrealistic manner that one doesn't care at all and worse is bored in the process. But to be fair, even the worse Lifetime film would have dealt better with an absent mother reuniting with a daughter she not only gave up but hasn't searched for. And now they are all hugs and kisses? What?! Madness, pure madness. What happened to Davies?
I haven’t seen a lot of his non-dw works, so I feel I can’t give a full comment on his writing as a whole, but in the realm of DW I would agree that it feels like he’s lost a lot of his sauce and drama in exchange for charm and ‘harmless fun’ that feels a little bit too harmless.
I felt written down to... like RTD thinking us to be fools who'll like anything he writes.
It is possible this episode was a meta-commentary on 'subverting expectations', but I don't like it! With "Oh we only thought Ruby's mother was important" [what a cop out indeed] or, and this is a weird one "We already reported Millie Gibson is coming back, but let's have this farewell that not only doesn't make sense for the whole season with the Dr and her not interacting much as we would want, but hey she's coming back, it's not goodbye forever". What if the media didn't report Millie was coming back?
All the disappointment.
Yeah… I’ve had people mention it could be a meta-commentary on that, or a commentary on fans, etc… but I don’t think either one quite works. And even so, if you’re going for something like that… you still have to put a good story behind it! Thanks for watching.
This was filmed way before the rumors of her not coming back, since they were already filming Series 15/Season 2 at that point, so I think this explains why they took so long to deny the rumors she was leaving -- they only denied it after the rumors that Millie Gibson was leaving because she was a diva, not nice, and difficult to work with were taking hold -- things that could have a big effect on her career. So I think we were meant to think this was the end of seeing Ruby and the media spoiled a season 2 surprise.
I agree. I defended Daleks in Manhattan, which should speak volumes... and this finale made me angry. We only thought there was a mystery because we were TOLD that there was! The big reveal... GOTCHA! No there isn't!
There were ZERO stakes, I wanted to care but at the moments we were told to care... I didn't. Screaming into space... I made a mocking scream because I was not invested and I didn't believe any of it.
MAYBE, if they had sacrificed Space Babies in the name of filling out the story and characters a bit, there could have been a satisfying moment.
Ruby finding her Mum SHOULD have been really powerful but I was so taken out of the whole story by everything that came before.
In the final scene, I said out loud, "OH, Mrs. Flood is going to be vague and wink and the camera... SUSPENSE!!! I DON'T CARE ANYMORE!!!"
I've been upset about this since Saturday and I could probably vent for a while... Anyway... Good video.
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed the review. I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the gotcha. I don’t think i fleshed out my feelings on that enough but it does feel like the show is mocking us for thinking something was going to be important even though it really played it up like it would be
I would boot "Space Babies" too.
Yeah... wasnt as bad as Space Babies but it was pretty bad, especially for a season finale. Its really hard for me to internalize that the same person who wrote this as a season finale wrote the first 4 seasons of the revival era.
I actually didn’t mind space babies too much, though I wish it had a bit *more* to it. But yeah it’s… hard for this time around with RTD because I know he can do this. He’s done it before, to critical acclaim and decades of love and so much is just missing this time.
@@ProtagonistIvy Cutting "Space Babies" and making this a three-episode arc might have helped some things, though.
It's tough to disagree with any of this. And bits of it are becoming more annoying as time goes on. It was great to watch and the ending was very moving (as indeed is 'Long Lost Family' - from whence it largely draws its inspiration), but things haven't clicked together. The only excuse I can think of is that the Doctor is holding back something about the mystery and wants to investigate by himself, because everything about Ruby's ancestry implied something much more intriguing. And perhaps the clue to that is in Anita Dobson's character, that appears to be outside of the action and simply cosplaying. The trouble is, a large amount of trust has been used up and that's difficult to recover. But we'll see.
Yeah… on rewatch I found myself a lot more upset at certain things, since I’d had more time to think about them. And thats what I’m hoping for- that somehow there really is something secretly unresolved with Ruby’s character. That’s always a risk with reviews and such like this, is that something might come along and justify something you thought was unnnecessary or didn’t work well. But for now… it definitely doesn’t work well, and the conclusions we did get, in my opinion, leave not that much room to add something else between the lines later. Thanks for watching!
@@ProtagonistIvy There's still her father, who has the same name as the Britain's "worst" prime minister (well, I guess the Master never was prime minister since that year reset, so okay).
Kate died for no reason and all tension went away, ruby is just a normal girl and it snowed for no reason, memories where not linked to Suteck so there was no reason for him to attack there and no reason for him to wait for that moment to attack and then, after making him up to be this mastermind, he just died in the dumbest way possible by being dragged by the collar like a dog being dragged by the leach after falling off a truck and them everything just magically turned back to normal again for no reason. the whole season was lethargic the doctor cried every single episode and acted submissive, incompetent and helpless. I give up, this show belongs to Disney now and will never be good again
I’d have to disagree on the doctor being submissive or incompetent, but I do think the show could have given him whole lot more to do in the traditional doctor-who sense.
@@ProtagonistIvy its missing scenes where the doctor says 'i am the doctor' with the epic music ramping up. Those moments have to be scripted accordingly, the doctor was scripted to be more secondary imho
If Sutekh was on the TARDIS, then why didn't he show interest in things like Bad Wolf, Donna's coincidences, the universe's nightmares of the Master, the cracks in time, or Clara's multiple selves? What was he doing during the Time War, and how didn't the Time Lords detect his presence whenever the Doctor landed on Gallifrey or the battlefield? Why didn't Idris bring him up, either?
When Capt Jack clung on the tardis the tardis tried to shake him off and went to the edge of time why didn't the tardis try to shake off sutekh ? .
When Gatwa hit the tardis with the magic Timmy Mallett style hammer and it split in two was sutekh on both tardises?
What about in frontios when the tardis was ripped apart? ?
In fathers day when the tardis just became an empty box?
It was trash. The best thing about the episode was this review. Nice work. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks lol!
You're a real one for the subtitles
Aw thanks! Yeah back when I started my channel a couple of friends of mine said they preferred them to be in the video itself and I’ve just always done that since.
Yeah even the people who have been loving this season had problems with this episode. I thought this season had a very weak first and last episode. Im still interested in next season and the special but I'm definitely a bit worried 🫣💙
That’s about how I am, I did enjoy this season it just stinks that it all lead to here. I am a bit worried for next season also,because it’s already wrapped filming. Any criticisms the audience has aren’t going to be heard or considered until season 3.
I rewatched Pyramids of Mars on DVD. A programme that I saw back in the 1970s when it was first shown on BBC One on a Saturday afternoon. Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor, Elisabeth Sladen as the lovely Sarah Jane Smith, with Gabriel Woolf as Sutekh! Mid 1970s Doctor Who as Gothic Horror!
I watched in on Britbox between the two episodes. Hadn't seen any Classic Who before but keep meaning to. If they wanted to get viewers into it, it wasn't a bad choice at all.
Great review. Always palpable when a show lets us down and it's a real disappointment when it does.
Thanks so much for the compliment, and for watching! It was a disappointment, yeah, especially since I really quite liked the Legend of Ruby Sunday and was really excited to see where it would lead :(
“Find a spoon and do an ancestry kit” 😂😂
My sister was born mid December in New York. I've never experienced snow just because her name gets mentioned. I'm sorry, but this is not the RTD of old.
It just doesn’t quite track.. I think linking it back to the TARDIS being messed with, or something else time and space related, would’ve made it a bit more believable to me.
I don't think this story is over, really, but I could be wrong.
This show is so dead. Capaldi was the last Doctor. This is just bad fanfiction and cosplay Doctors In Name Only.
If only I had a time machine to take me back to the euphoria of the first part of this story !! Spot on review, Ivy: it felt like we went from a peak of the season going into Empire of Death, and then we were 'driven away' at speed as far away as possible from all our personal investment; and just treated to a 'everything ended happily ever after' tag on. No explanation, no logic, no consequence. Science fiction and fantasy writing deserves the same level of care, craft and affection that the fans give it back - it's a co-dependency.
Same! I did enjoy Legend of Ruby Sunday and as the week past I got more and more excited to see where it might lead. And I agree that it felt like our personal investment were tossed aside. The way the story throws out the significance of rubys mom, the snow, the pointing, etc, it almost feels like the show is laughing at us for being so interested and putting so much importance into it, which doesn’t feel fair when the show has been holding our hand in that this entire time. Thanks for watching!
Yeah you may need to get some new tools ngl. I also felt like Samson said yes at first until he got to the ending. It was actually hilarious seeing the prediction and then just cutting straight back to future you😂
I legit thought about just doing a comedic cut from the predictions just to me going yeah no. lol.
Not me thinking from the thumbnail that this was a cosplay of 13. 😂
It actually uses my 13 wig, lol
Just dreadful from start to finish. Plot holes and more plot holes, a Doctor who isn't the Doctor and the unforgivable attempted retcon of Pyramids.
Reboot the First Doctor with David Bradley directed by Terry McDonough, produced by Matt Strevens and writers like Jonathan Brackley, Sam Vincent and David Wolstencroft, Doctor Who for intelligent fans and all who love quality television dramas.
There's also a _big_ difference between something having _reason_ and something having _cause._ Some things _do_ just happen without reason, but they're still _caused_ by something else, and _that's_ what needs to be explained.
another story where death can be reversed too easily without explaining how, is called the Gospel.
This episode was a huge letdown for me. I was really looking forward to an explosive finale but it just left me feeling a bit flat and disappointed.
This is what I think should have happened.
The Doctor found out that Sutekh was coming back. But he found out reasonably early on in the series. This is why (in my version) he chose not to appear in two episodes. This was because, in my version, he was making deals with the devils - Cybermen, Sontarans, Krillitanes. He wanted help in defeating a literal god who would destroy everyone.
Maybe UNIT is involved, but even if they are, I wouldn't place Rose Noble and Morris in there. Kate, I doubt that Daddy or Sarah Jane would be too happy about using children.
While this would put him in their debt, they would be able to see the benefit in stopping Sutekh.
When the Doctor finally meets face-to-face with the god again, he puts on a brave face. Maybe Sutekh didn't cling on since Pyramids of Mars, but still an awfully long time. Perhaps since the end of the Time War, or since the walls of universes became weaker when the Earth was stolen. I like the idea of the events of the Series Five finale being partially Sutekh's plan.
Despite the efforts of all of the Doctor's enemies, Sutekh starts dissolving the universe. But the Doctor and Ruby still go ahead with their part of the story. Eventually, after they've defeated Sutekh, Ruby asks the Doctor what he found out about her mother.
Doctor - Nothing.
Ruby - Nothing? What do you MEAN, nothing?
Doctor - I looked at the scanner from every possible angle. I found nothing.
Ruby - But - I CAN'T - I CAN'T be from NOTHING? Can I? Can people come from nothing?
(The Doctor is silent for a moment.)
Ruby - Doctor?
Doctor - I looked at all possible options. I ran your DNA through the TARDIS. Scanned it against every lifeform across the universe. There were no matches.
Ruby - So I'm...What AM I, Doctor?
Doctor: I have no clue.
Ruby doesn't say anything. The Doctor jokes that maybe the two of them are more alike than he originally thought. But he can't tell what Ruby is. The only thing he can do is take her to UNIT and drop her off.
As the episode closes, the Doctor stares wistfully at his TARDIS console. He briefly opens a drawer and finds a picture of Susan. He hears her voice in a recording from a Hartnell episode.
He asks himself aloud, "CAN people come from nothing?"
The final shot is of both Susan and Ruby's photos in the drawer, side by side.
I came up with most of this in under 20 minutes. And I wasn't drunk this time.
You should write a fanfic of this (sincerely) if you are into writing fiction. It's interesting.
@@HuntingViolets Thanks, but I'm trying to concentrate on my own projects, which include actual manuscripts that I want to publish.
@@MinimalistTheatre333 I know what you mean.
Great review!
Thanks so much!! Love your videos
@@ProtagonistIvy Thank you! Keep making the great content
The short response is, yes you are correct.
Is that Diamond logo a button/badge or a patch sown on? Just wondering, as I have a couple of the official t-shirts, but one of my carers put it in the washing machine wrong and the colours ran, so I thought, I wonder how 'fragile' it is?
I sewed it on! I’ve not washed this jacket yet so I’m not sure how fragile it is, sorry!
Really good review - I think you nailed it, frankly, in terms of how it was… well, an utter letdown! Excellently put 👏
Thank you!
Watch Legends of tomorrow... Much better storylines
I have wanted to check that one out for sure! Just got a few shows on my to-do list first
given the scope of the finale with death now happening on a universal scale how can we up the ante from here for future series.
Smaller scale would be fine. Better, even.
Good review I agree
They really over-reached with killing everyone off. When Kate got killed I was shocked, that was an effective moment, killing off a long-standing supporting character. Then Ruby's mum went too and I was still like "okay, okay, this still works" but when it got to large chunks of the planet being wiped out it was just...oh. Well all of this is going to be undone then. No stakes, no tension, no cost.
I was excited to see Sutekh, with Pyramids of Mars being one of the few old Doctor Who stories I'm familiar with, but his whole thing in that story was that if he got free of his prison then no force in the universe would be able to stop him. So having him unleased and then the Doctor defeats him with a length of rope... It was ridiculous.
I think the biggest issue I had with this episode, though, was the pointing. Not just the stupid explanation for it but the Doctor's reaction. There's a lot wrong with the episode, but this is the one that seems like just a total fuck up. When they're in the time window and Ruby's mother points at the signpost, the Doctor's all "this didn't happen before, the past keeps changing". Then they just never mention that again. Why make a point of emphasising that if it's then never relevant to anything?
For me, it was Rose. No way were they killing that character permanently.
@@TheIndieOcean And they never needed an explanation for Ruby's name. We would all assume her mother, Carla, gave it to her because of where she was found. Did Carla name her that because someone was pointing on a video at a signpost no one could see? I thought they couldn't even see her on the video (could be wrong about that), but there's no way she got her name from that.
Great review and comedic timing. Loved the cat clip.
Thanks!! They’ll be back again next year
Weak villians
You make valid points. I wonder whether any of this (the parts that can be) will be addressed in Series 15/Season 2/ Season 41. I mostly enjoyed the episode except for the whole pointing at a sign to name your baby and Ruby's calling her birth mother her "real mum." I didn't mind knowing there would be a reset. We could have spent more time with Sutekh (such an interesting character in some ways). If they could even have upped the episode count to one more (or eliminated "Space Babies"), maybe we could have had more Sutekh. But I did enjoy it overall and think the season had some great stuff in it too.
I largely agree with you. Even tho I watched the episode late and had seen a spoiler that Sutekh was back, it was an amazing reveal literal goosebumps. Also amazing redesign of Sutekh. The way they built up Susan Triad to potentially be Susan granddaughter and then the twist at the end (pun not intended… or maybe it was🤔) was great as well. I loved the build up from the end of Legend of Ruby Sunday and the start of Empire of Death was really cool. But then the actual threat was really too simple. Simple literal death being the main threat that has to be defeated is just too simple to be the crowning glory for a villain as evil and conniving as Sutekh. Even tho it’s possibly a bit more generic, if he’d killed a lot of the universe and then kept the rest in some form of torment/torture, (admittedly very equatable to The Master in series 3 and Davros in series 4) it would have had a lot more impact and gravitas, because it would have hit the emotions more. He could have still had his “empire of death” (and thus also delivered that killer line) without it being so literal and destroying a lot of the tension. I also agree with you regarding the overly simple and quick resolution of the story with Sutekh getting dragged through the time vortex, it was funny but destroyed the scale of it all, and it also, in combination with everything that had come before it, felt like a very underserved “final” end for such a villain as Sutekh. So much so that I wanna write a Sutekh return and pitch it to Russell myself 😂. All that being said, the concept of even memory itself dying and the doctor’s anguished scream at it all was amazing. Overall, pretty damn good, but definite room for improvement
I like seeing Mel again. Gatwa cries too much, I don't buy him as a Doctor. Ruby is pretty bland
I don’t mind him crying that much to be honest. I think it fits with a post bi-regen Doctor. Previous doctors were a lot more reserved emotionally, due to repressing things. 15 has been through the processing and opening up so it makes sense for him to be a lot more emotionally vulnerable. Ruby… I have to agree. She feels all too much like a cookie cutter, simplified companion for easy digesting. But I want someone real!
I was a huge fan of the end credits. It meant i could go throw up and forget that this show ever tried (and failed) to come back from the dead.
Anyone else playing "Dr Who Series 1 Finale Bingo"? I swear every review I've heard says all the same things
lol, yeah I think a lot of us are holding the same opinions. Thanks for stopping by!
@@ProtagonistIvy Yeah. And yet it seems that the shared experience across the fanbase is just being ignored 🙁 Such a shame
for me empire of death wasnt to bad it wasnt good wasnt terrible. There has been worse times in doctor who. In the last few years there has been worse times to say your a fan of the show
not really, no. this series has been below average at best. anyone who tries to claim that this series is better than anything in the past few years is just flat-out lying or has spent so long on the Chibnall hate bandwagon that they've lost the ability to judge media in good faith.
Eh, I’d be inclined to disagree. I think this is about the same quality we’ve been working with for a while now just plays out in different ways/different problem areas. I think it’s just a lot more disappointing this time around because RTD had such an incredible first run and has a lot to live up to.
My problem with the meeting her biological mom part was that they both wanted the mom to subvert expectations but also the mom was perfect. So they needed to explain the dropoff needing subterfuge and didn't just give away the baby through more traditional adoption methods, why she gave up baby in a framed her in the best light and why she never looked up her daughter when her story was well documented and name never changed and was also famous. So they said she had to get out of an abusive relationship. Basically the mom instantly became this close relationship and even her dad became this new perfect relationship (and thought he was abusive and mom had to sneak Raby away from him?). And then she said she needed to go with her REAL mom. Not bio mom REAL mom. Not her adoptive mom. Dispite not knowing her biological mom she had a lot of family (including the Doctor in a way) but this real mom is all she wanted and needed and ends up being the perfect fantasy of what her real mom would be like. She is the perfect mom absolutely no disappointments. Basically more fantasy than they could have done if her mom was fantastical in a more scifi fantasy way. At minimum I felt it spit on the woman who raised her and her grandmother. It felt like they just wanted a perfect ending to write her out of the show with...but now you are invested in those characters.
The mum had to sneak away from her abusive family, I think, not her boyfriend (again, I could be wrong). The "real mum" comment annoyed me so much.
Television is dead.
You look like Jodie Wittica 😅 I thaught like noooo Jodie can't be giving a bad review of the new doctor who series 😂
Whittaker.
After I watched it 3 or 4 times, I find I really like Empire of Death. It was epic compared to classic Who.