It seems like as long as you pick a medium/heavy spear armed melee cav your doing it right. The trap is buying the super expensive shock cav. As they dont get as much damage out as their opportunity cost is really high.
Yeah cav is cav they can do all the same job basically, having cav which is strong against inf and cav at the same time is very cost effective so thats why melee cav are high up
Yea shock cav are kind of screwed by how prevalent really heavy sword infantry and precursor javelins are as they rely much more on outweighing their charge target to do damage and were intentionally designed to have to be cycle charged rather than sit in prolonged fights like melee cav by way of having far less armor (and less melee stats) than similarly priced melee cav. An unfortunate side effect is that this also makes them far more susceptible to missile fire and way too many dirt cheap infantry can bring good javelins; they ought to at least make shock cav more resistant to missile fire. Either give them good small shields that protect well against missiles but don't do much in prolonged melee or just give them an attribute that makes them resistant to missile fire (it's not that unrealistic to say a cav unit is tough to hit with a missile).
seems to me all these tier list is for siege. there s no way those mid weight melee cav is god tier in land, they are literally trash…. cant beat shock cav cant beat medium infantry cant even reliably deal with levi freeman i d put median cav to decent and all those gatae massalian cav to meh. shock cav are much more common and valuable in land.
Azat knight is my favorite. I have used them in the past and they stood up in the most impossible situation (not just charging, meleeing other cav, but also standing against inf in pitch battle, which is not ideal but happens sometimes) I will put them in the GOD tier.
2 things, First imo you did Iberian cav dirty. They are definitely nowhere near the top of this list, but they are probably the only useful sword cav in the game. Their combination of stats makes the kill skirmishers faster than any other light cav. Sure, you are never going to bring a lot of them but a single Iberian cav waiting for a gap to exploit and kill most of the enemy missile units can be invaluable and they don't cost a lot. Second, the camels aren't actually that heavy. Thier mass is actually on the lower end on of the heavy units in the game. Cataphracts have 1100 mass very heavy shock cav have 800 and camel cataphracts have 750(there are only two camels in the game armored and unarmored). The thing that makes them op is basically CA never gave the proper animations. Camels don't really have a true charge animation like other cavalry. They just go faster when they hit their charge distance. This has the side effect of them just carrying on through a unit in a similar fashion to chariot and elephants, though not as extreme. Why this is such a big deal is good old impact damage. A single model of a Cataphract unit might hit 2 or 3 infantry models on a charge and impart impact damage a camel can easily plow through 5 or more doing impact damage to all of them. Even in cav on cav fights a unit like Saba's Royal Camel Archers with no charge or melee stats to speak of can kill half a steppe armored lancer in a head-to-head charge. It is INSANE!
finally, I've been saying median cav being ridiculous as heck for the price and many people seem to overlook them. Also, I think pontus has the best melee cav roster in the game, they have both noble blood and cappadocian cav (which they can bring more than 2). They also have citizen cav as strong cheap options as well. They also have the cheaper barbarian one but they're not good but it doesn't matter. What I like about pontus is that they have cheap decent infantries so that they have spare gold for those god tier melee cavalries and chariots..
@@FightMeTotalWar It'd be really fuckin wack if Bactia WASN'T one of the best cav factions, to be fair. Bactria was renowned for producing arguably some of the greatest horseman and cavalry in the ancient world.
Yea when I was learning to play the game and looking up tutorial videos, none of them mentioned Pontus has non-mercenary Cappadocian cav (since they didn't have them upon release I believe) which gives them an insanely strong tier 2 cav unit, particularly in the campaign since the neighboring Cappadochian minor faction is super weak and grants you both them and Iron.
Apologies if I'm missed it, but why didn't you include any of the nomadic culture cavalry units? Royal scythia, roxolani and saka? Cheers for the list anyway!
It's a shame CA got rid of chat in MP.. Shows they're trying to push people out of Rome 2, into their other games (aka Pharaoh) I must be the only one wanting a Rome 3.
Pretty much agree, apart from the riders of the hunt and the Egyptian cav. They have decent stats for the price but every time I use them they’re never very effective compared to other and cheaper cav.
citizen cav in the god tier is the biggest joke , they used to be called shitizens and nobody ever bring them in any competitive battle (and if someone did it was for the flex that he can win even with those units in his roster) , this cavalry was a big meme back in the day and the egyptian cav was not far behind in how awful it is ... to make it short the best shock cavalry available for the money is the thessalian cav (this unit single handedly makes macedon into a playable faction in online battles and is usually the key element for victory if you know how to use them correctly) , noble blood cav , medians and cappadotians are the 3 best mid tier melee cav units , massilian cav is also pretty awesome for the price .
You did an awesome job here by doing all these rankings. But I see that you're calculating cost-effectiveness by looking at the unit's cost. But what if you could calculate the unit's cost-effectiveness by the unit's upkeep in the campaign? The cost-effectiveness picture would be a little bit different and it would help folks to create more effective armies for their campaign playthroughs.
yeah right I had a little the same, I never look close to the sats and know exactly which one is stronger compare to the other so this research help also me!
very good tier list and very close to what I would rank cavalry units. But I need to say something about mercenary Himyar cavalry, I would put them at strong tier. they have the same stats as median cav but they do come with 2 volley of javelins with 32 damage 10 AP and +10 vs large upon charging, this allows them to decimate other melee cavalry units just before they start the fight, which gives them huge advantage. Secondly, they also have frenzied charge while median cav don't, this is really strong if you manage to keep them alive to help with infantry fights, the extra charge bonus they have when using this ability is really nice to have against infantries, somethings the median cav lack.
Legionary Cav is just Equites. More Expensive but not even better, losing 2 Defense for +5 HP(Heavy Infantry Entity instead of Medium Infantry[Equites]), +5 Morale and Disciplined At the cost of +120 and +20 Upkeep.
@@arssup That's the problem, they're mid tier but unlocked at the very end of the Grand Campaign or in the Augustan Reform, they're however are quite fast especially with Level 3 Horse Upgrade which the Romans didn't need tech to get, but Equites has far more uses and is very cheap in both investment and cost.
@@ashina2146 obv, in a campaign late-game you would mostly pack high-tier cav such as Praetorian Cav. I find good use for them in MP though, with them perfectly capable of beating likes of Citizen Cav and holding up even Heavy Horse for a while.
Noble Horse shouldn't be a different tier than Azat Knights. Yes, the Nobles have slightly more charge, damage and armor, but less defense and bonus vs large. Knights would do better in a prolonged fight vs cav, would they not?
This is very useful and much needed, but very hard to follow. Could we please get some basic timestamps and a written ranking? Most casual people can't recognize the units they are curious about from just a portrait among these. Also "and for 750 we have a unit between Cappadocians and the Medians" - which is that? Why not name it? Yet another reason for a written list in the description.
I currently playing rome grand campagin and try to just use cavalry unit to finish the game, it is difficult as most faction have a lot of spearman I don't know if they are the same as in different faction, but rome can hire different Auxiliary Cavarly depend on the region, for example, does the barbarian elite cavalry is same as the Auxiliary Noble Horse?
@@darkfireslide using Nomadic Horse Archers is easy, Light Horse Archers like Amazonian Horse Archers are great counter to Javelin infantry and Calvary, 125 ranges archers, heavy Calvary and infantry (use heavy arrows) but becareful to 150 ranges Archer and slinger. Medium Horse Archers like armoured Horse Archers is same as light one but they can hold the 150 range Archers and slinger. Heavy Horse Archers is great against all, they can defend themselves against all types Calvary if necessary and they are very strong against all ranges Infantry and Cavalry. And remember to always micromanaging every second
Armored desert cavalry should be at least decent imo. Well it has only 5 shield armor but has pretty decent melee attack and melee defence. And desert legionary cavalry must be definetly on CA ... It is probably the worst cavalry unit in terms of cost effectiveness.
Putting camel spearmen in god tier is a mistake. I don't know what you're smoking but they are dogshit and should be put in decent at best. Even looking at them from a cost effective unit they aren't that good
They can beat pretty much any other cavalry unit in the game, establishing cavalry superiority is the first step to actually using your cav to rear charge infantry so yes they are super good.
Accurate Tier List?
Much love to my TH-cam and Patreon Members!🥰
Decent but some units you over rated and some really under rated, but overal not bad
Alright I will take that haha
Could see the unit you were picking at the end, but keep up the good work
you slept on Socii
You forgot all of the steppe calvary like the roxolani calvary or messgate
It seems like as long as you pick a medium/heavy spear armed melee cav your doing it right. The trap is buying the super expensive shock cav. As they dont get as much damage out as their opportunity cost is really high.
Yeah cav is cav they can do all the same job basically, having cav which is strong against inf and cav at the same time is very cost effective so thats why melee cav are high up
Shock cav would been better if there were more lighter units and not that many spear units as there are in this game
Yea shock cav are kind of screwed by how prevalent really heavy sword infantry and precursor javelins are as they rely much more on outweighing their charge target to do damage and were intentionally designed to have to be cycle charged rather than sit in prolonged fights like melee cav by way of having far less armor (and less melee stats) than similarly priced melee cav.
An unfortunate side effect is that this also makes them far more susceptible to missile fire and way too many dirt cheap infantry can bring good javelins; they ought to at least make shock cav more resistant to missile fire. Either give them good small shields that protect well against missiles but don't do much in prolonged melee or just give them an attribute that makes them resistant to missile fire (it's not that unrealistic to say a cav unit is tough to hit with a missile).
seems to me all these tier list is for siege. there s no way those mid weight melee cav is god tier in land, they are literally trash…. cant beat shock cav cant beat medium infantry cant even reliably deal with levi freeman i d put median cav to decent and all those gatae massalian cav to meh. shock cav are much more common and valuable in land.
Azat knight is my favorite. I have used them in the past and they stood up in the most impossible situation (not just charging, meleeing other cav, but also standing against inf in pitch battle, which is not ideal but happens sometimes) I will put them in the GOD tier.
alright understandable
2 things, First imo you did Iberian cav dirty. They are definitely nowhere near the top of this list, but they are probably the only useful sword cav in the game. Their combination of stats makes the kill skirmishers faster than any other light cav. Sure, you are never going to bring a lot of them but a single Iberian cav waiting for a gap to exploit and kill most of the enemy missile units can be invaluable and they don't cost a lot. Second, the camels aren't actually that heavy. Thier mass is actually on the lower end on of the heavy units in the game. Cataphracts have 1100 mass very heavy shock cav have 800 and camel cataphracts have 750(there are only two camels in the game armored and unarmored). The thing that makes them op is basically CA never gave the proper animations. Camels don't really have a true charge animation like other cavalry. They just go faster when they hit their charge distance. This has the side effect of them just carrying on through a unit in a similar fashion to chariot and elephants, though not as extreme. Why this is such a big deal is good old impact damage. A single model of a Cataphract unit might hit 2 or 3 infantry models on a charge and impart impact damage a camel can easily plow through 5 or more doing impact damage to all of them. Even in cav on cav fights a unit like Saba's Royal Camel Archers with no charge or melee stats to speak of can kill half a steppe armored lancer in a head-to-head charge. It is INSANE!
finally, I've been saying median cav being ridiculous as heck for the price and many people seem to overlook them. Also, I think pontus has the best melee cav roster in the game, they have both noble blood and cappadocian cav (which they can bring more than 2). They also have citizen cav as strong cheap options as well. They also have the cheaper barbarian one but they're not good but it doesn't matter. What I like about pontus is that they have cheap decent infantries so that they have spare gold for those god tier melee cavalries and chariots..
Ye medians are very nice! Got to agree with bactria being a really strong cav faction indeed!
@@FightMeTotalWar It'd be really fuckin wack if Bactia WASN'T one of the best cav factions, to be fair. Bactria was renowned for producing arguably some of the greatest horseman and cavalry in the ancient world.
@@FightMeTotalWar oh you mean pontus? but ye baktria has great option as well.
Yea when I was learning to play the game and looking up tutorial videos, none of them mentioned Pontus has non-mercenary Cappadocian cav (since they didn't have them upon release I believe) which gives them an insanely strong tier 2 cav unit, particularly in the campaign since the neighboring Cappadochian minor faction is super weak and grants you both them and Iron.
Why am I here. I’ve never played this game. I have no idea how it works. But yet I still thirst for knowledge
thirst for knowledge is always good right haha
Start playing
Apologies if I'm missed it, but why didn't you include any of the nomadic culture cavalry units? Royal scythia, roxolani and saka?
Cheers for the list anyway!
It's a shame CA got rid of chat in MP.. Shows they're trying to push people out of Rome 2, into their other games (aka Pharaoh) I must be the only one wanting a Rome 3.
Pretty much agree, apart from the riders of the hunt and the Egyptian cav. They have decent stats for the price but every time I use them they’re never very effective compared to other and cheaper cav.
Understandable
citizen cav in the god tier is the biggest joke , they used to be called shitizens and
nobody ever bring them in any competitive battle (and if someone did it was for the flex that he can win even with those units in his roster) ,
this cavalry was a big meme back in the day and
the egyptian cav was not far behind in how awful it is ...
to make it short the best shock cavalry available for the money is the thessalian cav
(this unit single handedly makes macedon into a playable faction in online battles and is usually the key element for victory if you know how to use them correctly) ,
noble blood cav , medians and cappadotians are the 3 best mid tier melee cav units , massilian cav is also pretty awesome for the price .
You did an awesome job here by doing all these rankings. But I see that you're calculating cost-effectiveness by looking at the unit's cost. But what if you could calculate the unit's cost-effectiveness by the unit's upkeep in the campaign? The cost-effectiveness picture would be a little bit different and it would help folks to create more effective armies for their campaign playthroughs.
ye that could have been usefull indeed
Most times he rate things on multiplayer based, on campaign it doesn’t really matter, against ai you wil win with any decent army
Honestly I don't use cav a lot but knowing what's the best to bring is probably more useful than not so thx for the info
yeah right I had a little the same, I never look close to the sats and know exactly which one is stronger compare to the other so this research help also me!
Agreed
I'm addiced to your tierlists!
Good to hear that hahah
archers/peltast next please (maybe seperate, but there arent many of either)
Yes sir will do them both!
very good tier list and very close to what I would rank cavalry units. But I need to say something about mercenary Himyar cavalry, I would put them at strong tier. they have the same stats as median cav but they do come with 2 volley of javelins with 32 damage 10 AP and +10 vs large upon charging, this allows them to decimate other melee cavalry units just before they start the fight, which gives them huge advantage. Secondly, they also have frenzied charge while median cav don't, this is really strong if you manage to keep them alive to help with infantry fights, the extra charge bonus they have when using this ability is really nice to have against infantries, somethings the median cav lack.
Wow I did not know that much about it, bc really never used them, but thanks for sharing man!
No problem, glad it helps. Ya should give himyar cavalry a try, they’re pretty awesome.
Legionary Cav is just Equites.
More Expensive but not even better, losing 2 Defense for +5 HP(Heavy Infantry Entity instead of Medium Infantry[Equites]), +5 Morale and Disciplined
At the cost of +120 and +20 Upkeep.
Ye indeed they are shit
Legionary Cav is one of the best mid-tier cav units. Not much killing power, but excellent holding power. Matches well with Auxiliary Cav
@@arssup That's the problem, they're mid tier but unlocked at the very end of the Grand Campaign or in the Augustan Reform, they're however are quite fast especially with Level 3 Horse Upgrade which the Romans didn't need tech to get, but Equites has far more uses and is very cheap in both investment and cost.
@@ashina2146 obv, in a campaign late-game you would mostly pack high-tier cav such as Praetorian Cav. I find good use for them in MP though, with them perfectly capable of beating likes of Citizen Cav and holding up even Heavy Horse for a while.
I thought hellenic citizen cavalry was pretty bad-ish but in terms of cost, yeah, they are a good support/secondary unit
they are trash , it used to be the single worst rated cavalry unit in the game by pro players ...
Meanwhile heir of Carthage hate citizen c
any possibility of doing a missile cavalry tier?
Maybe, but to little units left tho
Where are the nomadic cavs?
Camels are only good because of a glitch they haven't fixed 😭
Noble Horse shouldn't be a different tier than Azat Knights. Yes, the Nobles have slightly more charge, damage and armor, but less defense and bonus vs large. Knights would do better in a prolonged fight vs cav, would they not?
This is very useful and much needed, but very hard to follow. Could we please get some basic timestamps and a written ranking? Most casual people can't recognize the units they are curious about from just a portrait among these. Also "and for 750 we have a unit between Cappadocians and the Medians" - which is that? Why not name it? Yet another reason for a written list in the description.
I understand Thats my bad
Great video, do you have tier list for missile cav?
Where Nomad cavs?
I didn't include them bc then it would get chaotic
Loved the video and the list 🤍
Glad you enjoyed!
I currently playing rome grand campagin and try to just use cavalry unit to finish the game, it is difficult as most faction have a lot of spearman
I don't know if they are the same as in different faction, but rome can hire different Auxiliary Cavarly depend on the region, for example, does the barbarian elite cavalry is same as the Auxiliary Noble Horse?
Noble horse Should be better
Was waiting for this one
Well here it is!
Rewatched the video recently and realised that I need a guide how to use cavalry.
Hahahaah
you should do a missile cav ranking as well
🫡
Navy next??? please???
😂😂never thought of that
What about elephants? And are they ever viable?
hmm very risky if u play vs semi capable people
How is barbarian light cav on lacking category? They are fast and have pila. I thought they are atleast strong lol.
they are s..h..it
sir is sparta worth buying and tell me the best unit for defend i want to use in peperangan
ye sparta is worth buying specially bc you can bring tortoises to!
How about elephants, chariots, dogs and artillery. I'd love to know your tiered opinion
Hmmm i might make a tierlist on that we Will ser
Light cavalry in multy, properly used, can be way than better than medium cav. For example the celtic and the Iberian light cavs are very good.
Ye true thats why i put them in God tier, oh nvm you are talking about those cav hmmm
@@FightMeTotalWar A combination of both is the key to win
When can see elephant?
Bactrian noble cav Should be next the cappadocian
Yeah They indeed can be ye
how is light cav good? they just die even to archers in melee
They are cheap fast and s distraction en can deal damage Vs low armored archers
Horse Missile Unit Tier List when?
Hmmm Will think about it
@@FightMeTotalWar I only ask because I'm playing a Royal Scythia campaign right now and was curious lol
@@darkfireslide using Nomadic Horse Archers is easy, Light Horse Archers like Amazonian Horse Archers are great counter to Javelin infantry and Calvary, 125 ranges archers, heavy Calvary and infantry (use heavy arrows) but becareful to 150 ranges Archer and slinger. Medium Horse Archers like armoured Horse Archers is same as light one but they can hold the 150 range Archers and slinger. Heavy Horse Archers is great against all, they can defend themselves against all types Calvary if necessary and they are very strong against all ranges Infantry and Cavalry. And remember to always micromanaging every second
no range cav?
they will be in the missle tierlist
You think Carthaginian cav will beat noble riders or any celtic heavy cav?! 😂
no i didnt say that haha
Armored desert cavalry should be at least decent imo. Well it has only 5 shield armor but has pretty decent melee attack and melee defence. And desert legionary cavalry must be definetly on CA ... It is probably the worst cavalry unit in terms of cost effectiveness.
Yeah the legionary desert cav can indeed be at CA...
What would you rate Italian noble cav?
Not the greatest
Is there any mod to add icons like attila to rome 2?
What do you mean?
@@FightMeTotalWar like when you build a building in attila it has some kind of photo of it
Oh I have no Idea
For unit cards you can use NordoPic 3D unit cards.
@@pvblivscornelivsscipio is it cool?
Where are nomadic cavalry units?
Honestly didnt want to add them to the list, to chaotic and dont want to encourage people playing those factions
they are bad factions anyway so they are all in the CA tier
Why, I really think that nomadic factions are cool as hell, nevertheless I want to hear your opinion
Nomadic factions destroy grand campaign tbh. Just need to micro well.
@@benjones9565as a Total War Attila players that already using Huns many times, I see no problem with nomadic Factions
Roman and carthage bodyguards?
Oeh ye I indeed forgot those my bad!
Yeah would have liked to see those on the list
Ye, they are also pretty nice units tbh
Don't think I see the Pergamenes Noble Cavalry?
They are in there
What makes camel cataphracts better than the horse cataphracts?
mass and speed
All camel units (at least I think all but definitely most) also scare horses.
what about misile cav
why is shitizen cavalry so far up haha
Tbh in the progress i thought the same thing but ye😂
Should have put all the low tier cav at strong but om just a fan of them haha
@@FightMeTotalWar fair enough they're alright
thanks
You're welcome!
Where the steppe faction
Didnt want to add them in here, to chaotic then
Cool video
ye right
I'm sure it's for siege
No also for land battles
Nice
Thanks!
Steppe lancers stronger than sarrisa?!
ye looks like it
Putting camel spearmen in god tier is a mistake. I don't know what you're smoking but they are dogshit and should be put in decent at best. Even looking at them from a cost effective unit they aren't that good
For the memes
hahah im smoking some good shi, but ye really not a fan of them they never preform good
They can beat pretty much any other cavalry unit in the game, establishing cavalry superiority is the first step to actually using your cav to rear charge infantry so yes they are super good.
Camel spearmen stronk!