Between this video and the "trigger angle explained" video, most noob's, including me, would like to see a vid on trigger wheel and sensor placement on crank. Degree's needed for 4, 6 8cyl vehicles. Also, explain deeper the trigger angles and tooth offset requirement. Then i would have the details i need on a silver platter and at one reference point...I think it would just round out the whole setup procedure. great vids guys.
What is important about CAM and CNK sensors and targets is how they operate during worse case crank shaft rotational acceleration. The highest accelerations are actually when the starter first engages the engine when cranking. How fast and deterministic an ECU can decode the CNK and CAM signals directly effects engine start time (cranking time) for sequencial events. Hall sensors are not velocity sensitive. Meaning they can operate at very low engine rotational speeds. The best CAM and CNK signalling is one that does not rely on trying to measure time between pulses to find a missing tooth during worse case acceleration. One example of a deterministic setup would be a power-up Hall looking at a CAM Phasor (half high, half low, like a BMW CAM target) and upon a transition then drop down to the CNK (36-1 Ford Target) with a power-up Hall and index on the tooth after the missing tooth transistion. Electrically you would first get a CAM transition (L-H or H-L) then the next transistion on the CNK would give you absolute engine position. The missing tooth on the 36-1 tooth wheel is used after the engine is started or as a backup in case a CAM sensor has failed (limp home mode). For starting a cold engine, before preping for a cylinder event (injecting fuel and setting spark timing) you would like to know absolute engine position, and decode it as soon as possible. If the engine is port injected it will take time before the charge intake event. With direct injection the time to first event is quicker. Also not discussed often, is the fact there are actually two domains with a magnetic target and sensor (magnetic lag). For example, the mechanical position of the CNK sensor is not exactly the same as the electical position of the sensor output signal when mechanically aligned. This stays relatively constant throughout the RPM range with a Hall effect sensor, however there is some skew between the two. You can see this effect by looking at the sensor output from the CNK and a mark on the crank wheel (missing tooth for example) using a strobe (high speed timing light). So it is important to understand magnetically how a target and sensor behaves throughout the usable engine RPM range.
Now i feel like i need to go outside and look at Rhondas trigger settings.... Havent gotten her to run reliably on the 1500 yet. Been having inconsistency with home signal. Wondering if the cam trigger isnt set right. Tdc offset is set per your video.
I like these How to video, One of the reason why I choose the elite 2500. I like to see a how to video on setting up traction control using YAW and lateral G sensor and wheel speed sensors. Its also be great if there's some base strategies for the traction control. Looking forward to it.
Haltech is the a section where I can submit ideas. I have a good one in regards to elite ecu displaying traction control info on the haltech dash for those who have adjustable traction control
it doesnt really seem public knowledge that you can use the same haltech between ls1 ls2 l98 l77 ls3 etc and just use the correct trigger settings when upgrading or just doing a long motor swap, without having to change hardware. i reckon that its a great selling point on its own. my current ls1 is run off the p01 factory ecu and besides being able to do everything i want its not as polished as a plug and play haltech elite. definitely looking forward to upgrading in the future
Analog sensor voltage matters or is it all about type of sensor and frequency? I mean, on the hayabusa, the teeth are located on the magneto, and therefore it genarates a higher voltage... But it is a reluctant type sensor like any other
what we need more is about the making of our own trigger wheel some says that reluctor need to see a sharp edge tooth and Hall is square edge tooth are those right>?
would your software work with an Hantek dso 3064A laptop based oscilloscope ? is it available F.O.C or only available with your own designated scopes ? 🤔 , Thanks for another great video. 🙂👍
Our HQ is in Australia but we have offices in UK, USA, NZ and Austria. And yes you can download a product catalogue from our website - the link is in the footer. You can also download our software if you want to have a play with it - just go to the "downloads" page on our website.
Yes, depending on the distributor. If it has a hall sensor built in to the distributor, it should be fairly easy. I just got my dodge shadow 2.5 tbi running; I used a speeduino UA4C, VW wasted spark module, and then I just bent down the tooth for cylinder 2 so it's out of the way. You wind up with a 4-1 trigger wheel (3 real teeth, 1 long gap). My next step is to hack together a more accurate trigger wheel using a soup can or something. Anyway, it is possible, and I'm debating making drop in trigger wheels for dizzy engines for tuning, but you can also just install an aftermarket wheel and sensor onto the crank shaft
I always thought that on reluctor sensors, the edge is defined by the polarity of the wires as one of the edges is a true zero crossing while the other edge dwells around the zero line between teeth and can cause false triggering when not properly matched to the ecu settings.
The signal on both wires is an inverse of the other, so if you get the polarity backwards the signal is inverted. With correct polarity they are almost always Falling edge. This is because as the tooth approaches the sensor the signal is pulled into a positive voltage. It then falls to zero when directly on top of the sensor before becoming negative as the tooth moves away. It is this “falling” signal from a positive voltage to a negative as it crosses zero volts that most ECUs look for. If you use a scope and it goes the other way you can simply select Rising as the edge and it will function correctly.
may i ask you a question. I have a weichai wp10 which after the repair knocks before starting the engine after the start it works normally, but it starts after many rotations(seems that there is an air in the fuel system). It sounds like a fuel injection with a high advance.thats what i think. is it possible that the camshaft sensor is not where it has to be. However i did all the timing marks as the manufacturer has marked the gears. Thank you in advance!
Can someone please help me understand what the benefits are to the different trigger patterns? I understand more teeth means more resolution, but what is the point of missing tooth crank wheels when running a home, aka cam, sync? The engine will get the speed from the crank and the position from the cam, right? Or does the missing tooth(or teeth) denote the position and the cam sensor just tells the ecu the phase? Thank you in advance.
Hello I could sure use your help, I have a 2015 dodge journey ,that hase the engine swapped out with a 2008 block an 2013 cylinder head, I have no spark at coils an scan tool says that there is no crank or cam sensor imput .I've video the rotation of the Reluctor wheel an counted the teeth an it has 58 teeth with a large in set gap missing. Now on all the sites on dodge shows a Reluctor wheel with 58 teeth but the part that is different sticks up opposite from the one on the engine we installed, so I took to dodge dealer he scanned an really didn't tell me any more than I knew, but he was thinking the Reluctor wheel should have less teeth an that's why it's not working, but I tried to show him an tell him that there's the same amount of teeth just opposite different trigger tooth.,he still says I need need Reluctor wheel or new block most likely a 2013. What is you opinion of the problem an a fix new Reluctor wheel or block, an right not the crank sensor is the same one for the 2008 up to 2020 according to the parts list so what would be the difference. Thank you.
When you have a hall sensor on your can gear like the T1 and say you have a hall sensor on a 12 tooth crank gear how do you correct for belt deflection the can be anywhere from 4⁰ to 16⁰ degrees off?? Any correction for this??
Does CAM position sensor is needed for ECU to operate correctly? Is it possible to to run engine with crank sensor(one tooth is longer than others) only using wasted spark system? If CAM sensor is a must, should it provide one impulse at BTDC of one particular cylinder or it must have some greater resolution with more impulses per revolution like crank sensor?
A cam position sensor is not necessary to just run the engine. However, to run the engine as best as possible it is needed so the ECU can identify which cylinder is firing. With a crank sensor only, it is only possible to see which two cylinders are firing.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Between this video and the "trigger angle explained" video, most noob's, including me, would like to see a vid on trigger wheel and sensor placement on crank. Degree's needed for 4, 6 8cyl vehicles.
Also, explain deeper the trigger angles and tooth offset requirement.
Then i would have the details i need on a silver platter and at one reference point...I think it would just round out the whole setup procedure.
great vids guys.
These great videos make me want to switch over to Haltech
This has been seriously helpful. Thank you so much for such a concise explaination.
Omg! I just got home from the tuners setting up my secondary sensor. It took us 3 weeks. I wish we saw this 3 weeks ago!
Òòòoò7⁶
Excellent... Very understandable and straight forward.... Thank you...👍
+
What is important about CAM and CNK sensors and targets is how they operate during worse case crank shaft rotational acceleration. The highest accelerations are actually when the starter first engages the engine when cranking. How fast and deterministic an ECU can decode the CNK and CAM signals directly effects engine start time (cranking time) for sequencial events. Hall sensors are not velocity sensitive. Meaning they can operate at very low engine rotational speeds.
The best CAM and CNK signalling is one that does not rely on trying to measure time between pulses to find a missing tooth during worse case acceleration. One example of a deterministic setup would be a power-up Hall looking at a CAM Phasor (half high, half low, like a BMW CAM target) and upon a transition then drop down to the CNK (36-1 Ford Target) with a power-up Hall and index on the tooth after the missing tooth transistion. Electrically you would first get a CAM transition (L-H or H-L) then the next transistion on the CNK would give you absolute engine position. The missing tooth on the 36-1 tooth wheel is used after the engine is started or as a backup in case a CAM sensor has failed (limp home mode).
For starting a cold engine, before preping for a cylinder event (injecting fuel and setting spark timing) you would like to know absolute engine position, and decode it as soon as possible. If the engine is port injected it will take time before the charge intake event. With direct injection the time to first event is quicker.
Also not discussed often, is the fact there are actually two domains with a magnetic target and sensor (magnetic lag). For example, the mechanical position of the CNK sensor is not exactly the same as the electical position of the sensor output signal when mechanically aligned. This stays relatively constant throughout the RPM range with a Hall effect sensor, however there is some skew between the two. You can see this effect by looking at the sensor output from the CNK and a mark on the crank wheel (missing tooth for example) using a strobe (high speed timing light). So it is important to understand magnetically how a target and sensor behaves throughout the usable engine RPM range.
Wow bed time music and I am going to watch again thanks guys
Now i feel like i need to go outside and look at Rhondas trigger settings.... Havent gotten her to run reliably on the 1500 yet. Been having inconsistency with home signal. Wondering if the cam trigger isnt set right. Tdc offset is set per your video.
I like these How to video, One of the reason why I choose the elite 2500. I like to see a how to video on setting up traction control using YAW and lateral G sensor and wheel speed sensors. Its also be great if there's some base strategies for the traction control. Looking forward to it.
thanks for the suggestions. we'll add them to our list of "topics to cover" :)
Haltech is the a section where I can submit ideas. I have a good one in regards to elite ecu displaying traction control info on the haltech dash for those who have adjustable traction control
This is it. You can also email marketing@haltech.com
Sent Email more detailed Thanks
Would be interested in this too
I believe my recent correspondence with you guys prompted this 😂😂😂
it doesnt really seem public knowledge that you can use the same haltech between ls1 ls2 l98 l77 ls3 etc and just use the correct trigger settings when upgrading or just doing a long motor swap, without having to change hardware. i reckon that its a great selling point on its own. my current ls1 is run off the p01 factory ecu and besides being able to do everything i want its not as polished as a plug and play haltech elite. definitely looking forward to upgrading in the future
Great video, love the detailed explanation. Can you do a similar video for the cam sensor/home signal.
how does temperature affect the inductive sensor? Can the fault only appear at a certain freezing temperature?
Thanks Haltech. I still find it confusing how to set up Nissan 360 optical trigger with the unique slots to identify individual cylinders.
We might do a separate video on that particular trigger setup in the future:)
Analog sensor voltage matters or is it all about type of sensor and frequency? I mean, on the hayabusa, the teeth are located on the magneto, and therefore it genarates a higher voltage... But it is a reluctant type sensor like any other
what we need more is about the making of our own trigger wheel
some says that reluctor need to see a sharp edge tooth
and Hall is square edge tooth
are those right>?
would your software work with an Hantek dso 3064A laptop based oscilloscope ? is it available F.O.C or only available with your own designated scopes ? 🤔 , Thanks for another great video. 🙂👍
Our software only works with Haltech products. Sorry.
@@haltech are you U.K based, or in the USA ? can i get a product catalog, from your website? Thanks
Our HQ is in Australia but we have offices in UK, USA, NZ and Austria. And yes you can download a product catalogue from our website - the link is in the footer. You can also download our software if you want to have a play with it - just go to the "downloads" page on our website.
can you do a crank trigger conversion for distributor type? would be very helpful for a noob like me
Yes, depending on the distributor.
If it has a hall sensor built in to the distributor, it should be fairly easy.
I just got my dodge shadow 2.5 tbi running; I used a speeduino UA4C, VW wasted spark module, and then I just bent down the tooth for cylinder 2 so it's out of the way. You wind up with a 4-1 trigger wheel (3 real teeth, 1 long gap).
My next step is to hack together a more accurate trigger wheel using a soup can or something.
Anyway, it is possible, and I'm debating making drop in trigger wheels for dizzy engines for tuning, but you can also just install an aftermarket wheel and sensor onto the crank shaft
can u change the analoge sensor to digital sensor? and would that effect the tuning
So basically is better to run a digital crank sensor, since doesn’t need to pass thru the analog to digital process?
I always thought that on reluctor sensors, the edge is defined by the polarity of the wires as one of the edges is a true zero crossing while the other edge dwells around the zero line between teeth and can cause false triggering when not properly matched to the ecu settings.
The signal on both wires is an inverse of the other, so if you get the polarity backwards the signal is inverted. With correct polarity they are almost always Falling edge. This is because as the tooth approaches the sensor the signal is pulled into a positive voltage. It then falls to zero when directly on top of the sensor before becoming negative as the tooth moves away. It is this “falling” signal from a positive voltage to a negative as it crosses zero volts that most ECUs look for. If you use a scope and it goes the other way you can simply select Rising as the edge and it will function correctly.
CAN it be use for a Suzuki samurai and what Application.
may i ask you a question. I have a weichai wp10 which after the repair knocks before starting the engine after the start it works normally, but it starts after many rotations(seems that there is an air in the fuel system). It sounds like a fuel injection with a high advance.thats what i think. is it possible that the camshaft sensor is not where it has to be. However i did all the timing marks as the manufacturer has marked the gears. Thank you in advance!
Can someone please help me understand what the benefits are to the different trigger patterns? I understand more teeth means more resolution, but what is the point of missing tooth crank wheels when running a home, aka cam, sync? The engine will get the speed from the crank and the position from the cam, right? Or does the missing tooth(or teeth) denote the position and the cam sensor just tells the ecu the phase? Thank you in advance.
So can I adjust my ignition timing manually by using the degrees on the pulley.. when I have a haltech ecu?
Nice video
What if you have a quad camshaft and 2 cam position sensors in a v8 configuration how can you wire those?
Hello I could sure use your help, I have a 2015 dodge journey ,that hase the engine swapped out with a 2008 block an 2013 cylinder head, I have no spark at coils an scan tool says that there is no crank or cam sensor imput .I've video the rotation of the Reluctor wheel an counted the teeth an it has 58 teeth with a large in set gap missing. Now on all the sites on dodge shows a Reluctor wheel with 58 teeth but the part that is different sticks up opposite from the one on the engine we installed, so I took to dodge dealer he scanned an really didn't tell me any more than I knew, but he was thinking the Reluctor wheel should have less teeth an that's why it's not working, but I tried to show him an tell him that there's the same amount of teeth just opposite different trigger tooth.,he still says I need need Reluctor wheel or new block most likely a 2013. What is you opinion of the problem an a fix new Reluctor wheel or block, an right not the crank sensor is the same one for the 2008 up to 2020 according to the parts list so what would be the difference. Thank you.
hi,
elite 2500, NSP
K24A3 Engine
trigger error: extra tooth.
Scope shows both crank and home signal.
Wonder if I can replace my reluctor type sensors with the three wire version, seems it would be better.
When you have a hall sensor on your can gear like the T1 and say you have a hall sensor on a 12 tooth crank gear how do you correct for belt deflection the can be anywhere from 4⁰ to 16⁰ degrees off?? Any correction for this??
Send your question to our Tech Support team via www.haltech.com/support - one of our tech guys will be happy to help you out with this:)
how u set up trigger in a FC Turbo 2 S5 with the stock cranck angle sensor on elite 1500 set up ?
On the ESP you have the "Edge Rejection Ratio" but it seems to be missing form NSP software programmer. What's up?
Does CAM position sensor is needed for ECU to operate correctly? Is it possible to to run engine with crank sensor(one tooth is longer than others) only using wasted spark system? If CAM sensor is a must, should it provide one impulse at BTDC of one particular cylinder or it must have some greater resolution with more impulses per revolution like crank sensor?
A cam position sensor is not necessary to just run the engine. However, to run the engine as best as possible it is needed so the ECU can identify which cylinder is firing. With a crank sensor only, it is only possible to see which two cylinders are firing.
Works with a Holden VN 5.0.?
Hi, do you make training on your products in the middle east
Holy. Crap. Woah the tuners are going to have a time with this. Hopefully I can at least have it in running condition before making it there.
Is there a plan to put a trigger scope into the ESP software?
Is there a option for a twin crank sensor? Or could i delete one and just use 1 crank 1 cam?
The software seems easy enough. Where do i put the missing teeth on a 60-2 trigger wheel?
What are the pros and cons of having a trigger pattern with more teeth than the one with fewer teeth?
Ha I just came back from tjhunt video where he's having problems with his crank sensor lol tj should watch this
Matt Drew first thought that came in my mind as well that TJ needs to watch this😂🤦🏽♂️
I had one of these move on me the first day of my delivery job
Actually guys. I have a question. Since my whole engine is apart. If I run a missing tooth crank trigger does that mean I dont need a cam sensor?
To my own question... You need a cam sensor to run sequential.
Mint!
Herkes krank sensörün'den söz ediyor fakat kimse bunun nasıl hesaplandığını bilmiyor...
+TJ Hunt
Technically speaking, there is no such thing as a 'digital sensor'. But the processor can be setup to view the analog signal as a digital pulse.
Yep very understandable Matt and haltech .... now when will u start making Xxl shirts for us fat boys im about dales size
Our merchandise range goes up to 4XL, or, as we would like to call it "regular".
Lol
en español por favor no ablo ingles
th-cam.com/video/gpMV_heXOos/w-d-xo.html
Dude pls tus abt how