Wither is a huge problem because its supposed to be a counter ability but in game its more of an engage than anything else 700 outranged every ADC in the game with the exception of Jinx Rockets. No ADC is allowed to attack Nasus because hey, he might just turn you off completely. Doesnt matter how much AS you have. Oh you're at the 2.50 limit? No youre not. You have 0.6AS.
twitch with ult and jinx with her rockets/kogmaw with his w exceed the 700 range, especially if you consider that abilities like wither have a center to center range and auto attacks an edge to edge range
@grosslyincandescent2495 he was talking about auto-attack range. I love when those "uhh...well actually..." types are wrong. We get it, you like to know things and it's very important to you that other people KNOW that you know things, but don't force it, it's super cringe. Like, Rachel putting on her cheerleader uniform to impress Joshua cringe
@@joshpointoh Well by your own admission, twitch ult is an auto-attack enhancement so technically the guy is right. I'm guessing you're one of those guys who likes to complain about guys who know things cause you yourself feel frustrated.
If Nasus is able to Wither your ADC in a teamfight, and your team doesn't CC him out, your team was going to lose that game anyway. Nasus is an immobile Bruiser. He has a singular focus. Chase down one target and bonk them. He isn't played in higher elo's because he is easy to keep off farm. Wither is the only thing keeping him away from a full rework. Without Wither, he can't do his job. And Wither costs alot of mana in the lane, he wont spam it until 2nd back, 1 item, and the enemy already threw him 1 or 2 kills. He is easy to counter if your team has any CC. He's balanced. He only gets out of hand when his opponent in lane is bad at the game.
Also a little fun fact: Nasus's slow is coded as a single type of slow (instead of being split as seperate slow, movement and attack speed) therefore having slow resistance also ignores cripple while it normally shouldn't
If you read the ability you would see that the reason it works that way is that the cripple (attack speed slow) is based on how much the movement speed slow is.
Active: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for up to 2 seconds, causing all basic attacks against him to miss. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all area of effect abilities. After 1 second, Jax can reactivate to end it immediately.
نشط: يدخل Jax في Evasion ، وهو موقف دفاعي ، لمدة ثانيتين ، مما يتسبب في تفادي جميع الهجمات الأساسية غير البرجية ضده طوال المدة. يحصل Jax أيضًا على تقليل الضرر بنسبة 25٪ ، مما يقلل الضرر من جميع قدرات منطقة التأثير التي يتم الحصول عليها من أبطال البطل. يمكن إعادة صياغة Counter Strike بعد ثانية واحدة ، ويتم ذلك تلقائيًا بعد انتهاء المدة. RECAST: يلحق Jax ضررًا جسديًا لجميع الأعداء القريبين ، ويزيد بنسبة 20٪ لكل هجوم يتم تفاديه ، وزيادة تصل إلى 100٪ ، ويصعقهم الصاعقة لمدة ثانية واحدة.
let me do one for him, gwen w is insanely useful against casters and useless against melees, but it has no drawbacks and is free. the only bad thing is that its connected to gwen, id love to have nasus wither on gwen
@bullettime1116 22 Mr and armor is 22% increased EHP. Is having to take 20% more damage to die really not that useful early game? I kinda doubt it, it's still 20% extra damage needed to kill you.
Completely agree, mundos passive is a perfect example of what a counter ability should look like while jax e is a disgrace, u simply cannot play certain champs and interact vs jax, especially if its a very telegraphed big hitting auto where if jax blocks it he just kills u and u dont really have a way to "bait it out" if the jax player is competent(tf gold card, voli q, gp q, etc etc)
Yeah but mundos passive isn’t a counter ability it’s an ignore all cc throughout lane phase ability. It’s either a useless ability or the most annoying ability in the game. Jax e stops 1 very often times small portion of a champs kit which you can easily just not auto him for a few secs or he just uses it as an insta cc and the counter doesn’t matter. The only people who get to complain about jax e are melee auto attackers i.e udyr, yi. Everyone else is crying that oh no gold card got easily ignored, just cancel your auto or just space better until he uses e. It’s only use is as cc and the counter is useful early game and in niche situations does it actually make a significant impact. Mundo e will permanently make him un cc-able until teamfights and some games if the enemy team is lacking in cc he will never get stunned
Mundo passive does 0 vs some champs and completely shuts down others, mostly those who rely on 1 long cooldown cc. Darius for example can never pull him in lane ever because it will always get blocked by the passive. His signature ability is unusable unless he gets a gank from someone else with cc. It's too oppressive in some matchups and too useless in others, not really well designed imo
When I was playing old Morde, I remember absolutely hating Wither and Riposte. Why? Because when I used my Q and enemy nasus/fiora pressed the ability, my attack speed was so low that my autoattack buff simply dropped.
Of these all, I think the worst offender still is Fiora's parry. Not only is it the most blanket countering one out there; with the immunity shutting down all casts, even ultimates, and the movespeed and cripple punishing auto attackers, Fiora really doesn't give up anything for having it, of all the champs listed, her kit still scales the hardest, and is relevant at all stages of the game. In a 1v1, you basically either need to surprise her or bait it out somehow else you straight up don't get to use one of your buttons as she stat checks you to death with true damage.
When bros video can be compresed into a 60 secound short but you stick for the entire duration and actualy be intertained you have an amazingly capable content creator and writer
I will come out and say it. I love wither. But I love it because it's allows nasus to be useful lategame. Alot of people think nasus is a late game champ, but he is really a mid game champ. Early he is weak, mid game he is raidboss, but late game, you are back to getting kited or blown up before you reach anyone. His Wither allows you to take a priority target out of the fight and let you focus on being an actual threat to focus on.
I think it's worth mentioning that while Miasma seems like a powerful slow it is actually rapidly decaying and similar to Fiora and Nilah, the primary counterplay to Miasma is it's Cooldown. These Cooldowns are all are over 20 seconds which means they are unable to be used carelessly. The whole theme to these spells is that they demand the player playing the champion to use them at the right time, and they demand the opponent to attempt to force them to be used at the wrong time
Yeah watching this video I was completely disagreeing with the miasma on the list. Long cooldown, can be walked past on an extremely vulnerable character
Besides that, it's dmg is weak and it's poison duration is only refreshed while you're in miasma. And considering how Cassiopeia is one of the most squishy and immobile characters in the game, i really don't think miasma is overtuned at all and i really disagree with his opinions about it.
It was weird that he compared it favorably to singed goop given that singed goop while covering a smaller area overall is actually wider if you hit a target dead center, it feels more like he had a bad experience during a spike in popularity of cass top.
Feel like it's a pretty big oversight not to consider cooldown or mana cost as part of the design of these abilities. Whiff a Riposte and until endgame when you finally have levels in the skill you don't have another answer for CC for almost half a minute and your opponent knows it.
This isn't exactly new to this video, but your production value and editing are insanely good. I just think this video in particular really pushes those limits and pops off especially hard with your presentation, making great use of transitions and having a constant stream of visual icons to help keep focus while also not being distracting due to taking up too much space. Edit: your closing thought articulates the balance risk of counter abilities perfectly. A well designed counter ability punishes engage. If the user and their opponent are aware of it, the counter ability creates a mind game, where the opponent tries to bait it out before actually committing to an all-in, while the user tries to withstand bait engages and correctly gauge when they *_need_* to use their counter spell or risk dying. A badly designed counter ability is so strong that it functions as disengage while also functioning as engage. If Cassiopeia throws Miasma at an immobile champion, that can work as an effective pick tool to catch and kill that champion. If Fiora or Jax go in with their counter spells, they can actually engage, rather than simply use their spells as intended. The intended way for Jax and Fiora to use Counterstrike and Riposte is to absorb engage, and duel through it. But the way they're both actually utilized is as engage tools, where Jax/Fiora jump in with their counter spell, get the stun/cripple, do a quick auto reset, and run away while their opponent can't fight back. Nasus Wither is just horse shit. It's given to a 100% immobile champion, and given enough Q stacks and itemizing tank stats, Nasus can completely turn the tide of a teamfight by reducing ADC damage and one-shotting them with only very, VERY, *_VERY_* specific counterplay. It was designed to bypass the design philosophy of Juggernauts, their immobility, which should never have happened. It's as bad as release Stridebreaker having a dash. The only reason Wither is allowed to stay is because Nasus would become completely useless if he had any other ability in the place of Wither, with the only exception that I can think of being Zilean's E, which is functionally the same exact ability when used on enemies, minus the cripple, but has the added effect of being usable on yourself or allies to grant the same amount of movement speed difference, only you're speeding yourself up, not slowing your target down.
Jax and Fiora do not have skill expression, they have skill oppression. Jax counterstrike should be a very short duration, that if used to dodge an auto attack becomes a powerful skill - and fiora the same but for hard cc abilities only. Having them stay active for such a long time and cover a wide array of options just make the champs into brainless counterpicks.
One important note is that Fiora *can* move while riposting - if she quickly q es, then she can dash while doing it, letting her dash into cc to make sure she gets a stun, like caitlyn traps or veigar wall.
if fioras w had to only be used for the sole purpose of hard cc she would be alot more balanced, rn even if she just blocked the damage of a regular ability and your champion doesnt have a way to dodge her w, thats still a won trade for her, if you want to keep autoing her at this point u have to stand still for what feels like an eternity, and at that point fiora has already procced her vital and gotten distance from u
You kind of touch on this in the video, but I don't think Riposte is actually a badly designed ability. Instead, the champion around the ability makes it broken. If you put it on a champ that wasn't hyper-mobile, it would be fine in 99% of situations, basically functioning as a spell shield with a bonus effect. The problem is that Fiora has so much artificial tankiness in her ability to dodge stuff and healing that the ability removes one of the few weaknesses she has. Maybe the cripple is a bit much, but IMO riposte is nothing more than the straw that broke the camel's back in the frustration of playing against Fiora.
The most egregious part of Riposte is it's ability to block summoner spells. Fiora's practically never do it on purpose and it's always dumb luck that feels God awful for the opponent. It doesn't feel like you were outplayed when it happens, it just feels like you were screwed. That's bad design.
I don't understand why riot makes every champion with max heath true damage into hypermobile champs. Vayne has a dash with an invisibility on it with a minimum 3 sec cd, fiora has a dash on average 4 sec cd and ksante is ksante because yes, in all out, his passive does max health true damage
I remember I was playing Teemo and a Fiora said I was a broken champ, after she negated my blind and one shot me with her passive and 2 sec dash and ult which then healed herself and her team to full off my corpse… so glad you pointed out how busted that champ actually is
your fault for playing teemo against fiora. if you played an kayle or quinn or basically any ranged top that isnt overly dependant on CC, its pretty easy. it's just you stay away and she will not get to you, her dash is stong but only late game and if you are in 300- range of her, keep your distance and you will be fine
@@robertosantos3769 hey babe I was teemo mid vs yassuo and dumpstered him, Fiora was top. I don’t play teemo against her for the reasons you pointed out 😘
I also think that shields are really good counter-type spells. They usually don't last long and you have to make sure you dodge a large ammount of damage with them to make them worth it. I especially love Lee Sins and Rakans shields for that, since you can bodyblock some abilities with these dashes as well.
I agree with all besides cass. It's not that effective versus melee because it expands at max range versus only taking up one circle if it's dropped on you. So it does have a cost. Additionally I think the grounding is good for the game considering riots need to put so many dashing champs into the game
Nasus wither is an overpowered counter ability for no cost just like jax, but unlike jax it has counterplay where u can just go phase rush and he can never fight u, unless u are the one making the mistake of walking up when phase rush is on cd and nasus has enough distance mana and w to run u down with ghost. Against jax there is nothing u can do if ure an auto attacker, he just presses his funny button and becomes invincible for 3 seconds while doing ur entire healthbar, only to get his invincibility back in 4 seconds with a cdr build(which every item he wants gives)
I mean yea, I said its an overpowered counter ability, if ure a champ who has to auto attack to deal damage there is no counterplay for u if u dont have phase rush, high tenacity or cleanse(mikaels, qss, cleanse)
@@jususi71 the thing is that w cd gets so low later on that he will have w back up before you have him dead as adc even if you have qss a d then it's still absurd of an cc ability for a low cd and point and click
At that point in the game, probably 25-30min where he has enough cdr to spam w, if he wants to ever walk towards the adc to get in range for w, hes gonna be in the middle of ur frontline champs and have to allin, if ur support buys mikaels which he should, nasus wont have enough time to get another w in 6 seconds unless hes monstrously fed, nasus is usually quite squishy in the lategame , if he isnt fed which he is rarely in high elo. Nasus is only ever really a problem in the midgame at level 13 where he has 2 items, and maxed q w, cos people dont really have alot of damage and pen yet to kill him quickly. Nasus' winrate is actually at its lowest point in the lategame
Might I suggest for a future "badly designed abilities": - Yuumi's new passive; it procs even if Yuumi is undamaged, so she cannot poke with autoatacks. - Yuumi's new E; it does not transfer and lasts only 3 seconds, making it useless in many situations. - Yuumi's new R; it does less damage than her Q, and is so bad now that enemies typically ignore it. Yuumi's new Q and W are an improvement on her old kit. Q and W were both nerfs, and both were needed. Yuumi's old kit had a couple of issues that her new kit solved, but RIOT changed things that didn't need to be changed. It created a Yuumi that is terrible. All she really does now is aim the occasional Q and ult whenever anyone all-ins her anchor. Yuumi's old kit had her hopping off to auto-attack, tanking damage for her teammates before reattaching (or tanking some cc for them instead). All RIOT really needed to do to Yuumi was make her W attach/detach only, with no anchor buffing. Instead they gave her by far the game's worst rework of all time. Pretty much every Yuumi main hated the rework. It was the opposite of what we all wanted - we wanted a more active cat that was rewarded for taking intelligent risks, not a doubling down on the perma-attach itemcat tactic that everyone (including Yuumi players) felt was toxic. RIOT majorly dropped the ball on Yuumi's rework and more attention should be given to that mistake. Yuumi needs (imo): - her lost +5 base AD back - her lost 50 range back, and maybe 50 more on top of that - her old passive back, but with half the cooldown for half the mana and shield - her old E back, but the buffs only work for Yuumi not her anchor (in trade for a lower mana cost) - her old R back (nerfed slightly - 4 waves to root instead of 3, but a slightly larger strike zone to compensate) - her W to do nothing other than attach/detach - her Q cooldown doubled if Q is launched while Yuumi is attached. A cat that wants to detach and fight is a lot more fun and fair. The attach/detach mechanic is great, but RIOT has very much the wrong end of the stick with Yuumi. She should be limited in effectiveness while attached, not designed to just stay attached all game long. Attaching should just be how she defends herself from poke and positions.
11:23 I wouldn't agree on Miasma being good vs Ranged Champions. Cassiopeia usually builds a Rylai's every single game and her e is point and click and has the same Target Range as her W and also has a shorter cast time than w (0.25s > 0.15s). Her q has a far higher range than both e and w. So if you want to kill an ADC or ranged Champion as Cassio, the best way is probably to hit Q or E for the Rylais slow in order to run them down. A good ADC player will see the Cassio stop running at them and expect them to either R or W them and just walk away. In order to chase down Ranged opponents that you are not already on Top of, q is the superior ability because it applies the Rylais slow for 4 seconds and speeds you up making it nearly impossible to escape for the enemy. Even without Rylais q is much better to chase down ranged enemies because the slow instantly wears off after leaving the grounded area.
I agree with Cassio's W not really belonging on this list, I mean sure it is a pretty strong counter, but you can most of the time just walk backwards out of it and wait it's duration. Generally to me it feels more like an good ability to lock the enemy out of a certaint zone for a while. Like I think all the other abilities on this list had me scream internally in pain at some point, Cassio's W never achieved that level of feeling unfair. I think that is most due to the fact of it not being that thick, you have two directions you can go in, with you being instantly free of the debuffs once you are out of the miasma.
Miasma is also a slow ability, its cast time is long and it is a projectile. On top of that, many assassins got dashes that out range it, so you really can't use it to stop their engages, in those cases. Not only that, but very often, good players just bait it out, because the CD is 24 seconds, untill much later or because the animation is long enough that they just react to it and jump on Cass, while she is locked in the Miasma animation. It is among the most fair zone control abilities. To me, Miasma is like Anivia's wall and R, its main use is area control and its second use is the CC and slow that it provides.
I think I disagree with the criteria quite a bit. When considering how well designed an ability is, you have to factor the satisfaction of the caster vs the frustration of the opponent. If you look at Poppy's W, it's often incredibly situational or even useless. For a Poppy player, laning against a champion like Darius or Garen makes the ability largely useless in regards to its intended purpose. Darius or Garen will never have to care about it, and Poppy won't ever be able to really get value out of it. More generally applicable defensive abilities solve this issue, because now certain champions can't just ignore it. Counter-strike is a great example of an ability that's generally always useful, especially in top lane where Jax is played. I also think you're incorrect about Counter-strike, it has quite a bit of counterplay and there's a huge opportunity-cost to casting it. Just because the ability itself doesn't have a counter doesn't mean that the kit as a whole isn't affected by its use. If Jax uses counter-strike poorly, he's incredibly vulnerable to getting countertraded on. For instance, most Jax players will know that assuming an even lane, it's often just not a good strategy to burn your whole kit during a neutral lane state, because if you use Q and E to jump on an opponent, you're now overextended and often can't get maximum damage value out of your E. The best way to use E is when you're getting jumped on, because that guarantees you can auto your opponent while being immune to autos yourself. If you don't find that maximum value, again, you're liable to getting counter-traded or even all-inned by lots of different champions. It's important to distinguish between truly defensive abilities and hybrid abilities in the context of the video. Counter-strike isn't Jax's defensive ability, it's his keynote ability. It defines how the champion interacts with others, and as such you can't analyze it purely as a defensive ability. You even hinted at this fact when you suggested that Jax doesn't have a neutral game, but you never mention that the reason for that is because of Counter-strike. This argument also applies to Riposte, but to a lesser extent.
Also poppy W feels like it is so short, with the majority of champs she's supposed to hard counter like fiora Jax or Akali, it doesn't really matter that much 1v1 unless you're turbo fed because they can wait it out as they wail on you because poppy does so little damage and even if they get hit by it most of them have another dash to get away after it wears off or the dash is back.
Fiora's W us a really powerful ability but what is mist insulting about it is the fact that her "counter ability" has some real mean offensive capabilities which is something that you cannot say about most abilities of the same type. Another thing is that logic of "I don't have crowd control so I should be fine" doesn't apply to it as it slows movement and attack speed which what us what Wither does and this ability was in this episode already!
I wouldn't have any problem with Fiora's W if she could just block/counter every ability in the game, but I can't stand how the attack speed reduction enables her to just dash forward, press w blindly and then win the trade just by stat checking, Fiora was meant to be a skilled champ but you need no skill if you can win without predicting any skill.
Bonus for the Fiora part. she can cast that with Q. Yes I discovered that playing agains't a fiora and she was losing, until she started to use it with Q. That completly removed any chance i had agains't her.
I hate illaois E ability the most out of any champion in the game. You can dodge all her slams you want, you can outplay her and kill her in lane but god forbid you get hit by one e, you lose insane amounts of hp. What a lot of people dont realize is that her spirit transfer 70% of the dmg to you. So if you get hit by you might as well be standing there yourself, and if its you and the spirit trying to fight her in melee, well she just got a 70% buff to her dmg. My point is, her dmg is way too high for landing one ability.
Miasma? For real? That ability has a long cast time and is a projectile. If you are too slow to dash out or turn when you see the Miasma animation, sorry, but that is on you. The ability has a lot of counter play, because of how slow it is.
i have said it time and time again, the most simple and best nerf to fiora you can do... is to remove the attack speed slow on parry. If you fight someone like jax and you fail to parry his counterstrike stun, you should be punished for misplaying. Instead she just takes the stun, then deletes your attack speed. I have calculated it and at early levels you have so little attack speed you cant hit her until it wears off, essentially rooting you if you try fighting her. Remove the attack speed slow so she can be a counterpick to stun champs like aatrox riven and shen, but lose to jax and tryndamere.
I would rework Jax E by making it a proper channeling you have to keep holding onto it. Jax can no longer attack or using other abilities when channeling, slowed by 25%, inflicts percent HP physical damage instead of magick damage, and no longer immune to melee autoattacks (now you simply deflect ranged autoattacks), and the hitbox is smaller and shaped more like a cone that's bigger upfront but smaller on his back. Now Jax simply taking 25-40% reduced damage from all sources, knocks back the target a little, and is also immune to CC when channeling.
I thought that my idea would outright kill Jax but you somehow made a much more aggressive version of it and I think you're version would kill him. Which tbf I'm in favour of so that's a thumbs up from me.
2 things that feel the worst in League: getting engaged on by a champion you simply can never win against (Jax vs pretty much any AA based champ), or dumping an R on Fiora who simply says "nope" and blocks the entire thing, with Caitlin and Veigar being some of most frustrating ones to waste.
Good juxtaposition argument with Fiora's Riposte goes towards Irelia's W as well. Conceptually a not so egregious counter ability, that's attached to the wrong champion, leading to little to almost no counterplay.
Id argue the best solution for riposte is that it, you know has to actually catch an attack, because the concept has skill expression but you get too much for nothing right now, at least for the cripple.
You did calling back to old videos really smoothly here, I wish more creators didn’t pause in the video and more so kept it flowing during recall. Like, every time a creator says subscribe, there’s a noticeable pause in the video. It’s better when it flows
You guys want to know a maybe not badly designed but definitely overpowered ability? Warwick q. Ah yes it's a point-and-click ability that makes you unstoppable and can follow all dashes and it heals for 75% of the dmg dealt at max level and scales with ad and ap and it does 10% max health magic dmg at level one and you can dash through enemies. Balanced definitely not broken ability
@@raphiki4780 I feel like reducing the max health dmg might be better honestly. The unstoppable is honestly the only hard part of Warwick’s kit and what makes him have any sort of a skill ceiling
I like counter abilities which dint "interact" with the enemy. Yasuos windwall or Gwens hallowed mist are very annoying, but you can just back off and wait after its over, Nilah as well. But the rest of this list influence the enemy in an even worse way. Stun, slow, cripple, ground, damage, so much debuffs which are hard to avoid ON TOP of the buffs they give to their respective champions like dodging, being untouchable, getting empowered es, theyre so much worse.
Miasma is stupidly slow though. It is a long cast and a projectile. He says it has no counter play, because he has never played Cassiopeia. The moment you play Cassio and meet good players, I guarantee you, they will bait out your Miasma quite often and it has a fucking 24 sec CD till much later in the game. Not only that, but many assassins got dashes that out range it, so you actually can not prevent their engage, only prevent them from getting out, once they are on you. People do not bother learning how an ability actually works and then complain. Sure, I understand why an adc would complain about Miasma, but assassins, who are the ones it is supposed to counter, can use 3 abilities during the cast time of Miasma, in most cases, if they lose to it, they quite literally just got out played.
@@nathanc939 Yeah, I am an ad carry main, so I complain about al of them, It feels like they were designed to shut down the whole marksman class as a whole more effective than other champions :( But ad carrys complain about anything, so yeah
Editing in this video was brill. I absolute hate wither - wither and counterstrike are probably my least favourite counters. I actually don't mind Gwen W at all.
Don’t forget how minion hits also stack up Jax’s counter strike damage to you, so it doesn’t matter if you actually auto him or not when he does it as it will almost always do the full 200% damage every time which is really unfair
The actual problem with miasma is that its actually a trash ability against most dashing champions. It's got a reactable cast and travel time, so if you try to drop it on someone like fizz preemptively, he'll just pop e and combo you. If you try to use it defensively, he's already popped his combo by the time you get it off, and you're dead. This applies to pretty much most mid lane assassins. Zed? Diana? Ya, you're dead before this move lands.
Wither is a stun. No whats, ifs or buts. That thing will make anyone useless or burn a bunch of resources to keep themselves alive, and by that time Nasus will simply point at them again and become a sitting duck.
Nilah w is a bit boosted but its the only reason why she is s tier and even playable. Without it she would be just dead. Her w was made to let nilah deal dmg and win trade when she has to go back from mele range. Without is she would not be able to trade and go in cuz before she even can close gap she lose half hp
for mundo, he can resist one hard cc and has a condition where if he picks up the canister, cooldown is reduced(resets in late game) and he heals. but enemies can walk over it and deny it so it's not a one sided interaction for fiora, press W and you are immune to *everything* that isn't a turret shot. some champions are singlehandedly shut down by this particular ability
Active: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for up to 2 seconds, causing all basic attacks against him to miss. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities. After 1 second, Jax can reactivate to end it immediately.
Eh cassio w is fine. You neglected to mention the fact that she has to land a karthus q or loses 60% of her damage. In reality the ability is more effective vs immobile characters because you can use it against them more reliably (cassio has low base armour and is deceptively pretty bad into ad assassins she should hypothetically hard counter with this spell). Playing the champ in masters+ where players will consistently dodge r and juke Q's, the onus is really on the cassio player to be much better than her opponent unless the opponent opts into a stat check. As a mid main I hate playing against cassio too, but the champ would be garbage without her w grounding. Add to that the fact that even as she gets points in the ability, the game disproportionately gets harder for her due to her shorter range. If you are a champ with mobility, just bait out her w. A good cassio will often predict your movement ability rather than react to you using it. And the ability has a much longer CD than your dash/blink.
Cmon there is no way you didn't say pantheon E its basically kayle R on an ability and "If you get behind him he takes damage " but getting close to a pantheon isnt a good idea at all unlesss your name is darius
15:40 This is a problem I have with a lot of champions. Having a button that just straight up negates an entire part of the game used to only belong to the early champions of league and were tied to ultimates (Trynd, Olaf, Yi, ect) so you could pressure them to use it and play around it from there. Having that power tied to a non-ultimate creates a situation where the champion commands far too much pressure on the map.
No, Wither is still the only good ability. The others only seem fine because of his kit, but trust me when no one else wants any of his other abilities... besides maybe Soul Eater on some champions. He completely throws away early game pressure for semi-okay abilities late game.
@@adambryant4149 I don’t know about that man, his e is an instant AOE uncounterable armor REDUCTION. 25% at min and 45% at max so even if you level it last it’s literally basically having an instant max cleaver without doing anything. Q however you put it it is still an infinitely stacking bonus damage auto reset with bonus range and uncancellable. As for r I mean the stats are pretty crazy bonus range for being bigger, one of if not the biggest health stero, with two items worth of armor and mr to boot and 50% cooldown red on q. W we all know so ya. Now I would say literally any marksman would want to trade one of their abilities for one of Nasus’s. If they got w or e it’s basically free win lane. For r that is one of the biggest power boost at 6, even if you have q well just play a bit safer and farm with that. Heck I’d say if you just completely copy this entire kit and a “modern” passive andmake a marksman based on it they’d be op as hell. Even if we turn away from the ranged idea, you can still put that q on a jungler who can get a stacks faster than a laner, e on some ad assassin for that free armor red, r to replace idk some other tanks/juggernauts weaker steroid ult. So idk man still seems all of his abilities are insane.
Have to dissagree, some abilities are fine to be "hey I counter x thing"(not all of them mind you), and the tradeoff is that a high % of the power budget of the champ comes into countering that specific thing, which naturally makes them worse against other types of damage/champs jax counters autoattackers, is worse against mages and ad casters, he also has low escape once he got in, rammus counter autoattackers, sucks against mages and other tanks, galio counters magic damage, specially if you are melee but it's absolute trash against ranged ad champs
I mean yeah but flora w is an unconditional pantheon e that has a nasus wither attached to it OR a full 2 second stun if you are not brain dead. Jax e is cancer but it DOES have a really high cooldown early
@@aldanieljumilla6716 long range mages should never be close to him unless he flashes and most close range mages have spells that render him useless like cassio or ryze and if you didn't know q is targeted, unless you have 5 pink wards you aint getting close to most mages in neutral. His ult also need him to be on top of an enemy so he can't even use the mr beforehand. Lastly everyone can build mr, doesn't mean it's a good idea nor it helps him get close
@@aldanieljumilla6716 If you let a champ with just one short range targeted dash come close to you as mage and don't disengage him afterwards, you deserve to lose.
Jax E has huge mana cost and the tradeoff is that the rest of his kit is garbage. If you can bait the counterstrike and then kite it, you can then turn around and demolish him
I like Fiora's w, but that's mostly because I play Evelynn and it's a super fun mini game. I can press w on Fiora and stand walking right beside her. Once the charm is charged, it's a mini game. Do I auto her to proc the charm? Or do I not? I'm so close to her that she can't react, so she has to predict when to parry. It's a fun mini game, but that's mostly because of how Eve's charm works. I agree on the main sentiment around it though
I don't understand why it has a cripple as well though, that's kinda stupid. The slow I understand but losing attack speed because the fiora mistimed her W feels terrible
I played jax for years and I believe the thing that made him unhealthy was the buff his counterstrike got around season 5, before that it negated all autoattack damage but not the empowered ones, Renek was a hard counter since his W worked through it and made him win all trades, TF could also stun you to get away, Leona was more able to peel for the carry and so on. I love Jax with all my heart but I believe that's what broke him, negating all autos was a huge thing, but in the moment his e became almost an spell shield it got unbearable.
Funily enough, i had a verry specific counterability i brewed myself for a champion i brewed myself aswell, and i took inspiration of Mundo. Basically, he is immune to all forms of hard-CC, which sounds incredibly busted (and probably would be if not for the upcomming drawback). However, every time he gets hard-cc’d, he instead gets a massive slow applied to him, slowing his retreat/aproach. Why TF i think this is even healthy? Because the drawback has no hard value, and can be easily adjusted if needed. To note also, he won’t have any mobility in his kit for once.
@@last_dutch_hero258 I think it was back when they were still planning on going the Eldritch horror style monster and making him a relentless run at you bear.
Counter Strike seems like an ability that should have a speed debuff during the wind-up animation, a la Poppy's ult or Varus' Q channel. But the truly egregious thing is that his Leap Strike isn't disabled during the wind-up, meaning he gets to walk at you full speed, use LS if he really wants to close the distance, while not taking damage. Addressing those two issues would go a long way to make it feel better balanced. Mundo's passive might suck in a 1-v-1 situation, but doesn't feel bad in teamfights because most comps have more than one form of CC, meaning the ability to lock him down is still there. I know, not the champ you really want to spend resources against if there are squishier targets on your screen, but it CAN be done.
Back before the item rehaul, the only champion I could play and win in a 1v1 against nasus was QSS and frozen mallet Quinn, she had enough ‘get off me’ tools, slows with frozen mallet and qss as a backup, now I can’t think of a champion who can fight him in a 1v1
15:09 as a main nillaqh i feel obligated to add to this statment: nillah's W is actually the worse version of counterstrike. why? cuz while in the W nillah still takes damage from literally anything besides AAs and projectiles, she is still vulnerable to literally any form of CC including thing like Nautilus's AA which she tecnically block but still takes the CC, you can pass to your team but unless it's something like diana's ult where everyone is together it's impossible to give it to more the 1 ally and for the ally the buff only last
You can block naut passive just fine when W is active same with Leona Q etc, and you aren’t supposed to share it to all 5 😂it’s mainly used to ally dash to the tank/frontline to give them a damage break and use your ult.
I disagree with the Fiora and Cassio flame. The part about Cassios W sounds way too biased from Vars being a Top Main. Cassios is a melee bruiser counter and her W helps her with that. That why it seems unfair for melee bruisers. But that's literally all she does. Is her design bad, just because she does her job? And Fioras W brings an element of Rock Paper Scissors when it comes to fighting her. I get why people don't like it and I do agree that the AS slow isn't necessary, but it gives a lot of opportunities for skill expression for both Fioras and whoever is playing against her. If you can't play around one of her biggest strengths, git gud
I think the description of Miasma is a tad bit exaggerated; it's very easy to walk out of because it's really just a small albeit wide circle, and once you walk out of that tiny area you can do everything again. If you remove the grounding aspect then it defeats the purpose of giving her a bit of interaction with gap closing champions, and if you remove the slowing aspect then it's too easy to walk out of; that's why Singed also has both; grounding isn't strong enough on its own especially since its only so far given to small areas of effect. Cassiopeia is a counter to Kassadin not because of Miasma, but because she functions similarly to an AD Carry in that she has consistent damage unlike other mages that rely on singular and separated skill casts to deal damage.
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8:47 my highest or maybe lowest amount of AS on enemy adc was 0.26 so almost 1AA per 4 sec
are you going to talk about constant slow items and their value on some champions ?
I dont like your new editor, maybe teach him how you make your videos dude.
@@Jan-nl6kq you good buddy?
@@chad4921 yeah noooo idk what was in my head that moment i dont even remember that comment, probably forgot my meds.
sorry vars
Wither is a huge problem because its supposed to be a counter ability but in game its more of an engage than anything else
700 outranged every ADC in the game with the exception of Jinx Rockets. No ADC is allowed to attack Nasus because hey, he might just turn you off completely. Doesnt matter how much AS you have. Oh you're at the 2.50 limit? No youre not. You have 0.6AS.
twitch with ult and jinx with her rockets/kogmaw with his w exceed the 700 range, especially if you consider that abilities like wither have a center to center range and auto attacks an edge to edge range
@grosslyincandescent2495 he was talking about auto-attack range.
I love when those "uhh...well actually..." types are wrong. We get it, you like to know things and it's very important to you that other people KNOW that you know things, but don't force it, it's super cringe. Like, Rachel putting on her cheerleader uniform to impress Joshua cringe
Wither is one of the worst abilities in League for sure. The cooldown is ridiculous too. Late game he is using it every 4 seconds
@@joshpointoh Well by your own admission, twitch ult is an auto-attack enhancement so technically the guy is right.
I'm guessing you're one of those guys who likes to complain about guys who know things cause you yourself feel frustrated.
If Nasus is able to Wither your ADC in a teamfight, and your team doesn't CC him out, your team was going to lose that game anyway. Nasus is an immobile Bruiser. He has a singular focus. Chase down one target and bonk them. He isn't played in higher elo's because he is easy to keep off farm. Wither is the only thing keeping him away from a full rework. Without Wither, he can't do his job. And Wither costs alot of mana in the lane, he wont spam it until 2nd back, 1 item, and the enemy already threw him 1 or 2 kills.
He is easy to counter if your team has any CC. He's balanced. He only gets out of hand when his opponent in lane is bad at the game.
Also a little fun fact: Nasus's slow is coded as a single type of slow (instead of being split as seperate slow, movement and attack speed) therefore having slow resistance also ignores cripple while it normally shouldn't
So boots of swiftness insta counters nasus lol
@@MostafaMahmoud02 It's the Best Buy against if You can fight him out of range
it cripples for a percent of the slow, that's why it works that way
Si cleanse gets rid of both the slow and the cripple?:0
If you read the ability you would see that the reason it works that way is that the cripple (attack speed slow) is based on how much the movement speed slow is.
Active: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for up to 2 seconds, causing all basic attacks against him to miss. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all area of effect abilities. After 1 second, Jax can reactivate to end it immediately.
And completely makes yones ult useless, but it's ok bc that's yone
نشط: يدخل Jax في Evasion ، وهو موقف دفاعي ، لمدة ثانيتين ، مما يتسبب في تفادي جميع الهجمات الأساسية غير البرجية ضده طوال المدة. يحصل Jax أيضًا على تقليل الضرر بنسبة 25٪ ، مما يقلل الضرر من جميع قدرات منطقة التأثير التي يتم الحصول عليها من أبطال البطل. يمكن إعادة صياغة Counter Strike بعد ثانية واحدة ، ويتم ذلك تلقائيًا بعد انتهاء المدة.
RECAST: يلحق Jax ضررًا جسديًا لجميع الأعداء القريبين ، ويزيد بنسبة 20٪ لكل هجوم يتم تفاديه ، وزيادة تصل إلى 100٪ ، ويصعقهم الصاعقة لمدة ثانية واحدة.
He can even talk about gwen w
BUT GWEN IS IMMUNE
He already talked about it in part 2
Edit: but yeah good joke
let me do one for him, gwen w is insanely useful against casters and useless against melees, but it has no drawbacks and is free. the only bad thing is that its connected to gwen, id love to have nasus wither on gwen
@@bullettime1116 it's not quite useless against melees, because it also gives her extra resistances. MR and Armor
@@luckas221a and in top lane 90% of her matchups are melee and those stats don't matter until late game
@bullettime1116 22 Mr and armor is 22% increased EHP.
Is having to take 20% more damage to die really not that useful early game? I kinda doubt it, it's still 20% extra damage needed to kill you.
Completely agree, mundos passive is a perfect example of what a counter ability should look like while jax e is a disgrace, u simply cannot play certain champs and interact vs jax, especially if its a very telegraphed big hitting auto where if jax blocks it he just kills u and u dont really have a way to "bait it out" if the jax player is competent(tf gold card, voli q, gp q, etc etc)
Am i the only one who was today years old when they realised Cassiopeia's ult makes a projection of her face?
Bc you can play around Mundo passive if you don't have multiple cc or don't need it to engage someone?
Yeah but mundos passive isn’t a counter ability it’s an ignore all cc throughout lane phase ability. It’s either a useless ability or the most annoying ability in the game. Jax e stops 1 very often times small portion of a champs kit which you can easily just not auto him for a few secs or he just uses it as an insta cc and the counter doesn’t matter. The only people who get to complain about jax e are melee auto attackers i.e udyr, yi. Everyone else is crying that oh no gold card got easily ignored, just cancel your auto or just space better until he uses e. It’s only use is as cc and the counter is useful early game and in niche situations does it actually make a significant impact. Mundo e will permanently make him un cc-able until teamfights and some games if the enemy team is lacking in cc he will never get stunned
Mundo passive does 0 vs some champs and completely shuts down others, mostly those who rely on 1 long cooldown cc. Darius for example can never pull him in lane ever because it will always get blocked by the passive. His signature ability is unusable unless he gets a gank from someone else with cc. It's too oppressive in some matchups and too useless in others, not really well designed imo
@@BreezeFlare exactly those type of ability create the toplane experience of "how you picked first sad you lose in draft"
When I was playing old Morde, I remember absolutely hating Wither and Riposte. Why? Because when I used my Q and enemy nasus/fiora pressed the ability, my attack speed was so low that my autoattack buff simply dropped.
i love when he said that kass get countered by cass even though hes one of her harder counters
Of these all, I think the worst offender still is Fiora's parry. Not only is it the most blanket countering one out there; with the immunity shutting down all casts, even ultimates, and the movespeed and cripple punishing auto attackers, Fiora really doesn't give up anything for having it, of all the champs listed, her kit still scales the hardest, and is relevant at all stages of the game. In a 1v1, you basically either need to surprise her or bait it out somehow else you straight up don't get to use one of your buttons as she stat checks you to death with true damage.
dont forget she benefits from cdr, so black cleaver, shoujin and hydra all give her more than 100haste in every game, which makes it spamable.
When bros video can be compresed into a 60 secound short but you stick for the entire duration and actualy be intertained you have an amazingly capable content creator and writer
I will come out and say it. I love wither. But I love it because it's allows nasus to be useful lategame. Alot of people think nasus is a late game champ, but he is really a mid game champ. Early he is weak, mid game he is raidboss, but late game, you are back to getting kited or blown up before you reach anyone. His Wither allows you to take a priority target out of the fight and let you focus on being an actual threat to focus on.
I think it's worth mentioning that while Miasma seems like a powerful slow it is actually rapidly decaying and similar to Fiora and Nilah, the primary counterplay to Miasma is it's Cooldown. These Cooldowns are all are over 20 seconds which means they are unable to be used carelessly. The whole theme to these spells is that they demand the player playing the champion to use them at the right time, and they demand the opponent to attempt to force them to be used at the wrong time
Yeah watching this video I was completely disagreeing with the miasma on the list. Long cooldown, can be walked past on an extremely vulnerable character
Besides that, it's dmg is weak and it's poison duration is only refreshed while you're in miasma. And considering how Cassiopeia is one of the most squishy and immobile characters in the game, i really don't think miasma is overtuned at all and i really disagree with his opinions about it.
It was weird that he compared it favorably to singed goop given that singed goop while covering a smaller area overall is actually wider if you hit a target dead center, it feels more like he had a bad experience during a spike in popularity of cass top.
Feel like it's a pretty big oversight not to consider cooldown or mana cost as part of the design of these abilities. Whiff a Riposte and until endgame when you finally have levels in the skill you don't have another answer for CC for almost half a minute and your opponent knows it.
Nasus' W being so obnoxious is the reason why I play him support.
You build Frozen Heart and enemy ADC literally cannot play.
Using Yone and Sylas as examples against Fiora W balance almost made me like Fiora, but she is my permaban for a reason.
This isn't exactly new to this video, but your production value and editing are insanely good. I just think this video in particular really pushes those limits and pops off especially hard with your presentation, making great use of transitions and having a constant stream of visual icons to help keep focus while also not being distracting due to taking up too much space.
Edit: your closing thought articulates the balance risk of counter abilities perfectly. A well designed counter ability punishes engage. If the user and their opponent are aware of it, the counter ability creates a mind game, where the opponent tries to bait it out before actually committing to an all-in, while the user tries to withstand bait engages and correctly gauge when they *_need_* to use their counter spell or risk dying.
A badly designed counter ability is so strong that it functions as disengage while also functioning as engage. If Cassiopeia throws Miasma at an immobile champion, that can work as an effective pick tool to catch and kill that champion. If Fiora or Jax go in with their counter spells, they can actually engage, rather than simply use their spells as intended. The intended way for Jax and Fiora to use Counterstrike and Riposte is to absorb engage, and duel through it. But the way they're both actually utilized is as engage tools, where Jax/Fiora jump in with their counter spell, get the stun/cripple, do a quick auto reset, and run away while their opponent can't fight back.
Nasus Wither is just horse shit. It's given to a 100% immobile champion, and given enough Q stacks and itemizing tank stats, Nasus can completely turn the tide of a teamfight by reducing ADC damage and one-shotting them with only very, VERY, *_VERY_* specific counterplay. It was designed to bypass the design philosophy of Juggernauts, their immobility, which should never have happened. It's as bad as release Stridebreaker having a dash. The only reason Wither is allowed to stay is because Nasus would become completely useless if he had any other ability in the place of Wither, with the only exception that I can think of being Zilean's E, which is functionally the same exact ability when used on enemies, minus the cripple, but has the added effect of being usable on yourself or allies to grant the same amount of movement speed difference, only you're speeding yourself up, not slowing your target down.
Am i the only one who was today years old when they realised Cassiopeia's ult makes a projection of her face?
OMG IS THAT YAKUZA LIKE A DRAGON MUSIC?????
Jax and Fiora do not have skill expression, they have skill oppression. Jax counterstrike should be a very short duration, that if used to dodge an auto attack becomes a powerful skill - and fiora the same but for hard cc abilities only. Having them stay active for such a long time and cover a wide array of options just make the champs into brainless counterpicks.
One important note is that Fiora *can* move while riposting - if she quickly q es, then she can dash while doing it, letting her dash into cc to make sure she gets a stun, like caitlyn traps or veigar wall.
If you put a veigar wall/cait or jinx traps down in a 1v1 vs fiora you are trolling tho
if fioras w had to only be used for the sole purpose of hard cc she would be alot more balanced, rn even if she just blocked the damage of a regular ability and your champion doesnt have a way to dodge her w, thats still a won trade for her, if you want to keep autoing her at this point u have to stand still for what feels like an eternity, and at that point fiora has already procced her vital and gotten distance from u
The thing that I HATE is that blocks EVERYTHING: AA, abilities, CC, items, plants, SPELLS.
You kind of touch on this in the video, but I don't think Riposte is actually a badly designed ability. Instead, the champion around the ability makes it broken. If you put it on a champ that wasn't hyper-mobile, it would be fine in 99% of situations, basically functioning as a spell shield with a bonus effect. The problem is that Fiora has so much artificial tankiness in her ability to dodge stuff and healing that the ability removes one of the few weaknesses she has. Maybe the cripple is a bit much, but IMO riposte is nothing more than the straw that broke the camel's back in the frustration of playing against Fiora.
The most egregious part of Riposte is it's ability to block summoner spells. Fiora's practically never do it on purpose and it's always dumb luck that feels God awful for the opponent. It doesn't feel like you were outplayed when it happens, it just feels like you were screwed. That's bad design.
I don't understand why riot makes every champion with max heath true damage into hypermobile champs. Vayne has a dash with an invisibility on it with a minimum 3 sec cd, fiora has a dash on average 4 sec cd and ksante is ksante because yes, in all out, his passive does max health true damage
when gwen's gyatt hits the griddy ong typeshit
I remember I was playing Teemo and a Fiora said I was a broken champ, after she negated my blind and one shot me with her passive and 2 sec dash and ult which then healed herself and her team to full off my corpse… so glad you pointed out how busted that champ actually is
your fault for playing teemo against fiora. if you played an kayle or quinn or basically any ranged top that isnt overly dependant on CC, its pretty easy. it's just you stay away and she will not get to you, her dash is stong but only late game and if you are in 300- range of her, keep your distance and you will be fine
@@robertosantos3769 hey babe I was teemo mid vs yassuo and dumpstered him, Fiora was top. I don’t play teemo against her for the reasons you pointed out 😘
I also think that shields are really good counter-type spells. They usually don't last long and you have to make sure you dodge a large ammount of damage with them to make them worth it. I especially love Lee Sins and Rakans shields for that, since you can bodyblock some abilities with these dashes as well.
I agree with all besides cass. It's not that effective versus melee because it expands at max range versus only taking up one circle if it's dropped on you. So it does have a cost. Additionally I think the grounding is good for the game considering riots need to put so many dashing champs into the game
Nasus wither is an overpowered counter ability for no cost just like jax, but unlike jax it has counterplay where u can just go phase rush and he can never fight u, unless u are the one making the mistake of walking up when phase rush is on cd and nasus has enough distance mana and w to run u down with ghost. Against jax there is nothing u can do if ure an auto attacker, he just presses his funny button and becomes invincible for 3 seconds while doing ur entire healthbar, only to get his invincibility back in 4 seconds with a cdr build(which every item he wants gives)
Yeah right adcs should just take phaserush whenever they see a nasus...makes it much more bearable that way
I mean yea, I said its an overpowered counter ability, if ure a champ who has to auto attack to deal damage there is no counterplay for u if u dont have phase rush, high tenacity or cleanse(mikaels, qss, cleanse)
@@jususi71 the thing is that w cd gets so low later on that he will have w back up before you have him dead as adc even if you have qss a d then it's still absurd of an cc ability for a low cd and point and click
At that point in the game, probably 25-30min where he has enough cdr to spam w, if he wants to ever walk towards the adc to get in range for w, hes gonna be in the middle of ur frontline champs and have to allin, if ur support buys mikaels which he should, nasus wont have enough time to get another w in 6 seconds unless hes monstrously fed, nasus is usually quite squishy in the lategame , if he isnt fed which he is rarely in high elo. Nasus is only ever really a problem in the midgame at level 13 where he has 2 items, and maxed q w, cos people dont really have alot of damage and pen yet to kill him quickly. Nasus' winrate is actually at its lowest point in the lategame
Lmao "'nasus is fine he just forces you to take a broken rune that will get deleted in 2 month"
Might I suggest for a future "badly designed abilities":
- Yuumi's new passive; it procs even if Yuumi is undamaged, so she cannot poke with autoatacks.
- Yuumi's new E; it does not transfer and lasts only 3 seconds, making it useless in many situations.
- Yuumi's new R; it does less damage than her Q, and is so bad now that enemies typically ignore it.
Yuumi's new Q and W are an improvement on her old kit. Q and W were both nerfs, and both were needed.
Yuumi's old kit had a couple of issues that her new kit solved, but RIOT changed things that didn't need to be changed. It created a Yuumi that is terrible. All she really does now is aim the occasional Q and ult whenever anyone all-ins her anchor. Yuumi's old kit had her hopping off to auto-attack, tanking damage for her teammates before reattaching (or tanking some cc for them instead).
All RIOT really needed to do to Yuumi was make her W attach/detach only, with no anchor buffing. Instead they gave her by far the game's worst rework of all time. Pretty much every Yuumi main hated the rework. It was the opposite of what we all wanted - we wanted a more active cat that was rewarded for taking intelligent risks, not a doubling down on the perma-attach itemcat tactic that everyone (including Yuumi players) felt was toxic. RIOT majorly dropped the ball on Yuumi's rework and more attention should be given to that mistake.
Yuumi needs (imo):
- her lost +5 base AD back
- her lost 50 range back, and maybe 50 more on top of that
- her old passive back, but with half the cooldown for half the mana and shield
- her old E back, but the buffs only work for Yuumi not her anchor (in trade for a lower mana cost)
- her old R back (nerfed slightly - 4 waves to root instead of 3, but a slightly larger strike zone to compensate)
- her W to do nothing other than attach/detach
- her Q cooldown doubled if Q is launched while Yuumi is attached.
A cat that wants to detach and fight is a lot more fun and fair. The attach/detach mechanic is great, but RIOT has very much the wrong end of the stick with Yuumi. She should be limited in effectiveness while attached, not designed to just stay attached all game long. Attaching should just be how she defends herself from poke and positions.
11:23 I wouldn't agree on Miasma being good vs Ranged Champions. Cassiopeia usually builds a Rylai's every single game and her e is point and click and has the same Target Range as her W and also has a shorter cast time than w (0.25s > 0.15s). Her q has a far higher range than both e and w. So if you want to kill an ADC or ranged Champion as Cassio, the best way is probably to hit Q or E for the Rylais slow in order to run them down. A good ADC player will see the Cassio stop running at them and expect them to either R or W them and just walk away. In order to chase down Ranged opponents that you are not already on Top of, q is the superior ability because it applies the Rylais slow for 4 seconds and speeds you up making it nearly impossible to escape for the enemy. Even without Rylais q is much better to chase down ranged enemies because the slow instantly wears off after leaving the grounded area.
Tbh Cassio W is not even that strong, it just happens to counter Flash and flash is turbo meta since forever and the game revolves round it
I agree with Cassio's W not really belonging on this list, I mean sure it is a pretty strong counter, but you can most of the time just walk backwards out of it and wait it's duration. Generally to me it feels more like an good ability to lock the enemy out of a certaint zone for a while.
Like I think all the other abilities on this list had me scream internally in pain at some point, Cassio's W never achieved that level of feeling unfair.
I think that is most due to the fact of it not being that thick, you have two directions you can go in, with you being instantly free of the debuffs once you are out of the miasma.
Miasma is also a slow ability, its cast time is long and it is a projectile. On top of that, many assassins got dashes that out range it, so you really can't use it to stop their engages, in those cases. Not only that, but very often, good players just bait it out, because the CD is 24 seconds, untill much later or because the animation is long enough that they just react to it and jump on Cass, while she is locked in the Miasma animation.
It is among the most fair zone control abilities. To me, Miasma is like Anivia's wall and R, its main use is area control and its second use is the CC and slow that it provides.
love the Zardonic-esque beat in the background
I think I disagree with the criteria quite a bit. When considering how well designed an ability is, you have to factor the satisfaction of the caster vs the frustration of the opponent.
If you look at Poppy's W, it's often incredibly situational or even useless. For a Poppy player, laning against a champion like Darius or Garen makes the ability largely useless in regards to its intended purpose. Darius or Garen will never have to care about it, and Poppy won't ever be able to really get value out of it.
More generally applicable defensive abilities solve this issue, because now certain champions can't just ignore it. Counter-strike is a great example of an ability that's generally always useful, especially in top lane where Jax is played. I also think you're incorrect about Counter-strike, it has quite a bit of counterplay and there's a huge opportunity-cost to casting it. Just because the ability itself doesn't have a counter doesn't mean that the kit as a whole isn't affected by its use. If Jax uses counter-strike poorly, he's incredibly vulnerable to getting countertraded on.
For instance, most Jax players will know that assuming an even lane, it's often just not a good strategy to burn your whole kit during a neutral lane state, because if you use Q and E to jump on an opponent, you're now overextended and often can't get maximum damage value out of your E. The best way to use E is when you're getting jumped on, because that guarantees you can auto your opponent while being immune to autos yourself. If you don't find that maximum value, again, you're liable to getting counter-traded or even all-inned by lots of different champions.
It's important to distinguish between truly defensive abilities and hybrid abilities in the context of the video. Counter-strike isn't Jax's defensive ability, it's his keynote ability. It defines how the champion interacts with others, and as such you can't analyze it purely as a defensive ability. You even hinted at this fact when you suggested that Jax doesn't have a neutral game, but you never mention that the reason for that is because of Counter-strike. This argument also applies to Riposte, but to a lesser extent.
Also poppy W feels like it is so short, with the majority of champs she's supposed to hard counter like fiora Jax or Akali, it doesn't really matter that much 1v1 unless you're turbo fed because they can wait it out as they wail on you because poppy does so little damage and even if they get hit by it most of them have another dash to get away after it wears off or the dash is back.
I raised my hand.
Fiora's W us a really powerful ability but what is mist insulting about it is the fact that her "counter ability" has some real mean offensive capabilities which is something that you cannot say about most abilities of the same type.
Another thing is that logic of "I don't have crowd control so I should be fine" doesn't apply to it as it slows movement and attack speed which what us what Wither does and this ability was in this episode already!
I wouldn't have any problem with Fiora's W if she could just block/counter every ability in the game, but I can't stand how the attack speed reduction enables her to just dash forward, press w blindly and then win the trade just by stat checking, Fiora was meant to be a skilled champ but you need no skill if you can win without predicting any skill.
Yasuo and Fizz enters the chat
To be fair Miasma is actually kinda balanced..
on Cassio atleast.
this ability does not belong into this video
Bonus for the Fiora part.
she can cast that with Q.
Yes
I discovered that playing agains't a fiora and she was losing, until she started to use it with Q.
That completly removed any chance i had agains't her.
yeah, she can Q W into a stun like veigar wall and try to fish for a counter stun
✋ nasus main here, I absolutely love wither, I think its a great ability
I hate illaois E ability the most out of any champion in the game. You can dodge all her slams you want, you can outplay her and kill her in lane but god forbid you get hit by one e, you lose insane amounts of hp. What a lot of people dont realize is that her spirit transfer 70% of the dmg to you. So if you get hit by you might as well be standing there yourself, and if its you and the spirit trying to fight her in melee, well she just got a 70% buff to her dmg. My point is, her dmg is way too high for landing one ability.
Always happy to see a good Fire Emblem reference. 9:21
OK this is the first sponsor that has got me that phone looks insane
Miasma? For real? That ability has a long cast time and is a projectile. If you are too slow to dash out or turn when you see the Miasma animation, sorry, but that is on you. The ability has a lot of counter play, because of how slow it is.
"What is the counterplay to wither? There is no counterplay... unless you got out of your way to counter it with tools the game gives you."
i have said it time and time again, the most simple and best nerf to fiora you can do...
is to remove the attack speed slow on parry. If you fight someone like jax and you fail to parry his counterstrike stun, you should be punished for misplaying. Instead she just takes the stun, then deletes your attack speed. I have calculated it and at early levels you have so little attack speed you cant hit her until it wears off, essentially rooting you if you try fighting her.
Remove the attack speed slow so she can be a counterpick to stun champs like aatrox riven and shen, but lose to jax and tryndamere.
I wouldn't mind seeing the opposite of this, what you think the 5 most well designed counter moves are.
I would rework Jax E by making it a proper channeling you have to keep holding onto it. Jax can no longer attack or using other abilities when channeling, slowed by 25%, inflicts percent HP physical damage instead of magick damage, and no longer immune to melee autoattacks (now you simply deflect ranged autoattacks), and the hitbox is smaller and shaped more like a cone that's bigger upfront but smaller on his back. Now Jax simply taking 25-40% reduced damage from all sources, knocks back the target a little, and is also immune to CC when channeling.
I thought that my idea would outright kill Jax but you somehow made a much more aggressive version of it and I think you're version would kill him. Which tbf I'm in favour of so that's a thumbs up from me.
@@Omnifarious42 Jax still going to kill you, now he just can't get away scot free like he used to do
2 things that feel the worst in League: getting engaged on by a champion you simply can never win against (Jax vs pretty much any AA based champ), or dumping an R on Fiora who simply says "nope" and blocks the entire thing, with Caitlin and Veigar being some of most frustrating ones to waste.
Good juxtaposition argument with Fiora's Riposte goes towards Irelia's W as well. Conceptually a not so egregious counter ability, that's attached to the wrong champion, leading to little to almost no counterplay.
Id argue the best solution for riposte is that it, you know has to actually catch an attack, because the concept has skill expression but you get too much for nothing right now, at least for the cripple.
i literally just sat down to eat, bless you bro u saved me for looking for something 😂
10/10 music selection
Politely rewatching the vid after focusing on Yakuza ost for 15 minutes
You did calling back to old videos really smoothly here, I wish more creators didn’t pause in the video and more so kept it flowing during recall. Like, every time a creator says subscribe, there’s a noticeable pause in the video. It’s better when it flows
The fact that there are five videos about badly designed abilities is super depressing.
You guys want to know a maybe not badly designed but definitely overpowered ability? Warwick q. Ah yes it's a point-and-click ability that makes you unstoppable and can follow all dashes and it heals for 75% of the dmg dealt at max level and scales with ad and ap and it does 10% max health magic dmg at level one and you can dash through enemies. Balanced definitely not broken ability
I think removing the unstoppable part of his Q would make it balanced.
@@raphiki4780 I feel like reducing the max health dmg might be better honestly. The unstoppable is honestly the only hard part of Warwick’s kit and what makes him have any sort of a skill ceiling
9:35 you need to wait the little dog under the t1 tower and flank him with 3, but...only works once
I like counter abilities which dint "interact" with the enemy. Yasuos windwall or Gwens hallowed mist are very annoying, but you can just back off and wait after its over, Nilah as well. But the rest of this list influence the enemy in an even worse way. Stun, slow, cripple, ground, damage, so much debuffs which are hard to avoid ON TOP of the buffs they give to their respective champions like dodging, being untouchable, getting empowered es, theyre so much worse.
Those 2 are also just worse abilities in general like spirits refuge.
Miasma is stupidly slow though. It is a long cast and a projectile. He says it has no counter play, because he has never played Cassiopeia. The moment you play Cassio and meet good players, I guarantee you, they will bait out your Miasma quite often and it has a fucking 24 sec CD till much later in the game. Not only that, but many assassins got dashes that out range it, so you actually can not prevent their engage, only prevent them from getting out, once they are on you.
People do not bother learning how an ability actually works and then complain. Sure, I understand why an adc would complain about Miasma, but assassins, who are the ones it is supposed to counter, can use 3 abilities during the cast time of Miasma, in most cases, if they lose to it, they quite literally just got out played.
@@nathanc939 Yeah, I am an ad carry main, so I complain about al of them, It feels like they were designed to shut down the whole marksman class as a whole more effective than other champions :(
But ad carrys complain about anything, so yeah
4:30 DAMN that shot is powerful
Editing in this video was brill. I absolute hate wither - wither and counterstrike are probably my least favourite counters. I actually don't mind Gwen W at all.
Don’t forget how minion hits also stack up Jax’s counter strike damage to you, so it doesn’t matter if you actually auto him or not when he does it as it will almost always do the full 200% damage every time which is really unfair
I'd object against Jax. Brother Kax is fine. He helps me donate gold to his team.
The actual problem with miasma is that its actually a trash ability against most dashing champions. It's got a reactable cast and travel time, so if you try to drop it on someone like fizz preemptively, he'll just pop e and combo you. If you try to use it defensively, he's already popped his combo by the time you get it off, and you're dead. This applies to pretty much most mid lane assassins. Zed? Diana? Ya, you're dead before this move lands.
Wither is a stun.
No whats, ifs or buts.
That thing will make anyone useless or burn a bunch of resources to keep themselves alive, and by that time Nasus will simply point at them again and become a sitting duck.
I appreciate you using the Mad dogs theme from Yakuza 8
I usually recognize every ability in the family but here I only know wither and fioras parry the platypus
Nilah w is a bit boosted but its the only reason why she is s tier and even playable. Without it she would be just dead. Her w was made to let nilah deal dmg and win trade when she has to go back from mele range. Without is she would not be able to trade and go in cuz before she even can close gap she lose half hp
If you're only being played because your one ability invalidates your opponents, maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board?
@@manarager3413but they wanted to create an adc for people that play Jax, fiora, riven etc. And nilah does that perfectly.
I'm sorry, Master Yi can ignore WHAT. Caught me off guard.
for mundo, he can resist one hard cc and has a condition where if he picks up the canister, cooldown is reduced(resets in late game) and he heals. but enemies can walk over it and deny it so it's not a one sided interaction
for fiora, press W and you are immune to *everything* that isn't a turret shot. some champions are singlehandedly shut down by this particular ability
Active: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for up to 2 seconds, causing all basic attacks against him to miss. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities. After 1 second, Jax can reactivate to end it immediately.
11:45 what's the background song it sounds very familiar
like a dragon ost hel yeah
Nasus’ Wither is practically a 5 second root
Crowd Control Counters Counter Strike. Stun and walk.
Duelist Thrive off of you engaging them, but lack neutral generally.
Eh cassio w is fine. You neglected to mention the fact that she has to land a karthus q or loses 60% of her damage. In reality the ability is more effective vs immobile characters because you can use it against them more reliably (cassio has low base armour and is deceptively pretty bad into ad assassins she should hypothetically hard counter with this spell). Playing the champ in masters+ where players will consistently dodge r and juke Q's, the onus is really on the cassio player to be much better than her opponent unless the opponent opts into a stat check.
As a mid main I hate playing against cassio too, but the champ would be garbage without her w grounding. Add to that the fact that even as she gets points in the ability, the game disproportionately gets harder for her due to her shorter range.
If you are a champ with mobility, just bait out her w. A good cassio will often predict your movement ability rather than react to you using it. And the ability has a much longer CD than your dash/blink.
imagine how good Miasma would be if you could decide its direction, like Victors laser...
9:49 "kiting him 1v1 is unfeasible, i don't care who you are"
ekko: w "ha,ha,ha" stuns and moonwalks slowly away
Also is a monstrously gigantic fucking slow even if you don't stun
Cmon there is no way you didn't say pantheon E its basically kayle R on an ability and "If you get behind him he takes damage " but getting close to a pantheon isnt a good idea at all unlesss your name is darius
Reminder that global and damage over time is also negated if the pantheon is facing the champion who casted them
@@ethanstyant9704 i forgot completely about it as well why did you remind me I feel more frustrated about that ability now LOL
i would love for the base riposte to do no damage and no effects and only having a stun and damage on succesful counter
Exactly, like why it negate every fcking damage in the whole damn game.
9:48 "laughs in Illaoi"
15:40
This is a problem I have with a lot of champions. Having a button that just straight up negates an entire part of the game used to only belong to the early champions of league and were tied to ultimates (Trynd, Olaf, Yi, ect) so you could pressure them to use it and play around it from there.
Having that power tied to a non-ultimate creates a situation where the champion commands far too much pressure on the map.
It's really interesting that Nasus has four individually insane abilities but somehow put all of them together you get a doo-doo champion HMMMM
No, Wither is still the only good ability. The others only seem fine because of his kit, but trust me when no one else wants any of his other abilities... besides maybe Soul Eater on some champions. He completely throws away early game pressure for semi-okay abilities late game.
@@adambryant4149 I don’t know about that man, his e is an instant AOE uncounterable armor REDUCTION. 25% at min and 45% at max so even if you level it last it’s literally basically having an instant max cleaver without doing anything. Q however you put it it is still an infinitely stacking bonus damage auto reset with bonus range and uncancellable. As for r I mean the stats are pretty crazy bonus range for being bigger, one of if not the biggest health stero, with two items worth of armor and mr to boot and 50% cooldown red on q. W we all know so ya. Now I would say literally any marksman would want to trade one of their abilities for one of Nasus’s. If they got w or e it’s basically free win lane. For r that is one of the biggest power boost at 6, even if you have q well just play a bit safer and farm with that. Heck I’d say if you just completely copy this entire kit and a “modern” passive andmake a marksman based on it they’d be op as hell. Even if we turn away from the ranged idea, you can still put that q on a jungler who can get a stacks faster than a laner, e on some ad assassin for that free armor red, r to replace idk some other tanks/juggernauts weaker steroid ult. So idk man still seems all of his abilities are insane.
Have to dissagree, some abilities are fine to be "hey I counter x thing"(not all of them mind you), and the tradeoff is that a high % of the power budget of the champ comes into countering that specific thing, which naturally makes them worse against other types of damage/champs jax counters autoattackers, is worse against mages and ad casters, he also has low escape once he got in, rammus counter autoattackers, sucks against mages and other tanks, galio counters magic damage, specially if you are melee but it's absolute trash against ranged ad champs
I mean yeah but flora w is an unconditional pantheon e that has a nasus wither attached to it OR a full 2 second stun if you are not brain dead. Jax e is cancer but it DOES have a really high cooldown early
@@aldanieljumilla6716 long range mages should never be close to him unless he flashes and most close range mages have spells that render him useless like cassio or ryze and if you didn't know q is targeted, unless you have 5 pink wards you aint getting close to most mages in neutral. His ult also need him to be on top of an enemy so he can't even use the mr beforehand. Lastly everyone can build mr, doesn't mean it's a good idea nor it helps him get close
@@aldanieljumilla6716 If you let a champ with just one short range targeted dash come close to you as mage and don't disengage him afterwards, you deserve to lose.
@@aldanieljumilla6716bruiser mage will kite him to death and long range mage will never be in range unless they get flanked
Jax E has huge mana cost and the tradeoff is that the rest of his kit is garbage. If you can bait the counterstrike and then kite it, you can then turn around and demolish him
I like Fiora's w, but that's mostly because I play Evelynn and it's a super fun mini game. I can press w on Fiora and stand walking right beside her. Once the charm is charged, it's a mini game. Do I auto her to proc the charm? Or do I not? I'm so close to her that she can't react, so she has to predict when to parry. It's a fun mini game, but that's mostly because of how Eve's charm works. I agree on the main sentiment around it though
Fiora W is my favourite ability in the game. It literally makes every matchup winnable if you have good enough reaction time and timing
I don't understand why it has a cripple as well though, that's kinda stupid. The slow I understand but losing attack speed because the fiora mistimed her W feels terrible
@@ethanstyant9704 it's really useful as a combat debuff into matchups that it would be useless against
I played jax for years and I believe the thing that made him unhealthy was the buff his counterstrike got around season 5, before that it negated all autoattack damage but not the empowered ones, Renek was a hard counter since his W worked through it and made him win all trades, TF could also stun you to get away, Leona was more able to peel for the carry and so on.
I love Jax with all my heart but I believe that's what broke him, negating all autos was a huge thing, but in the moment his e became almost an spell shield it got unbearable.
Tbf it is pretty funny when you counter strike those abilities 😂
Funily enough, i had a verry specific counterability i brewed myself for a champion i brewed myself aswell, and i took inspiration of Mundo.
Basically, he is immune to all forms of hard-CC, which sounds incredibly busted (and probably would be if not for the upcomming drawback). However, every time he gets hard-cc’d, he instead gets a massive slow applied to him, slowing his retreat/aproach. Why TF i think this is even healthy? Because the drawback has no hard value, and can be easily adjusted if needed. To note also, he won’t have any mobility in his kit for once.
This was literally one of the early ideas they had for the volibear rework.
@@RavenAurion I honestly didn't know that lol
@@last_dutch_hero258 I think it was back when they were still planning on going the Eldritch horror style monster and making him a relentless run at you bear.
Deathwing in heroes of the storm
He works like this
Happy Christmas Vars!
Counter abilities are annoying af but that's the point, you kind of even remember champions based on those
The way I'd change Jax's E was to make it so that he cannot auto during it. That always seemed like an unnecessary part of it.
I'm surprised nobody ever plays Nasus support with Senna.. They are both late game carries and the Nasus gets all the farm
Honestly I wouldnt have a problem with miasma if all it did was remove movement abilities. But if Im not mistaken it also completely silences you.
Counter Strike seems like an ability that should have a speed debuff during the wind-up animation, a la Poppy's ult or Varus' Q channel. But the truly egregious thing is that his Leap Strike isn't disabled during the wind-up, meaning he gets to walk at you full speed, use LS if he really wants to close the distance, while not taking damage.
Addressing those two issues would go a long way to make it feel better balanced.
Mundo's passive might suck in a 1-v-1 situation, but doesn't feel bad in teamfights because most comps have more than one form of CC, meaning the ability to lock him down is still there. I know, not the champ you really want to spend resources against if there are squishier targets on your screen, but it CAN be done.
Well morgana's E seems to have been forgotten in this video even as counterplay since it's usefulness skyrockets with good timing
Back before the item rehaul, the only champion I could play and win in a 1v1 against nasus was QSS and frozen mallet Quinn, she had enough ‘get off me’ tools, slows with frozen mallet and qss as a backup, now I can’t think of a champion who can fight him in a 1v1
15:09 as a main nillaqh i feel obligated to add to this statment: nillah's W is actually the worse version of counterstrike. why? cuz while in the W nillah still takes damage from literally anything besides AAs and projectiles, she is still vulnerable to literally any form of CC including thing like Nautilus's AA which she tecnically block but still takes the CC, you can pass to your team but unless it's something like diana's ult where everyone is together it's impossible to give it to more the 1 ally and for the ally the buff only last
You can block naut passive just fine when W is active same with Leona Q etc, and you aren’t supposed to share it to all 5 😂it’s mainly used to ally dash to the tank/frontline to give them a damage break and use your ult.
I disagree with the Fiora and Cassio flame.
The part about Cassios W sounds way too biased from Vars being a Top Main. Cassios is a melee bruiser counter and her W helps her with that. That why it seems unfair for melee bruisers. But that's literally all she does. Is her design bad, just because she does her job?
And Fioras W brings an element of Rock Paper Scissors when it comes to fighting her. I get why people don't like it and I do agree that the AS slow isn't necessary, but it gives a lot of opportunities for skill expression for both Fioras and whoever is playing against her. If you can't play around one of her biggest strengths, git gud
Yeah but her W also is an attack speed cripple which is stupid because its a constant value ability.
@@ethanstyant9704 AS = Attack Speed
Fiora's parry is god tier.
If it didnt slow attack speed it would be
I will never understand why counterstrike doesn't, at the very least, disable Jax's auto attacks.
4:53 in the other spectrum you could have an ability simply slow 20% and be instanitly cast.
It isn't deadly but is certainly impossible to dodge.
I think the description of Miasma is a tad bit exaggerated; it's very easy to walk out of because it's really just a small albeit wide circle, and once you walk out of that tiny area you can do everything again. If you remove the grounding aspect then it defeats the purpose of giving her a bit of interaction with gap closing champions, and if you remove the slowing aspect then it's too easy to walk out of; that's why Singed also has both; grounding isn't strong enough on its own especially since its only so far given to small areas of effect. Cassiopeia is a counter to Kassadin not because of Miasma, but because she functions similarly to an AD Carry in that she has consistent damage unlike other mages that rely on singular and separated skill casts to deal damage.