@@royavidan behind the scenes on Patreon this video is indeed 20 minutes longer due to Vars being on a tangent as to why he hates Yone, completely uncensored with a lot of curses
I think all of those who may be a ""failure"" can be easily fixed with a little twist. In Wild Rift, Nilah has a completly different passive that heals her whenever she strikes a critical attack, which made her viable as a Jungler and she is pretty much only being played as a Jungler now. She is super fun to play, not oppressive at all and overall is great champion.
Really? I've never seen a Nilah jungle. And I really love that her dashes are free targeted. Really good when things go south and I would say necesary, considering she's melee even in ranged form (350 units dosen't mean much, there's a reason why Lillia has healing and high tempo and Urgot durability and the capeability to build bursier and tank.
@SharksandSnakesareok I don't see nilah all that much anymore but yeah nilah in wild rift is more or less only played as a jungler especially with sivir just releasing and caitlyn staying meta in duo for a while now
@@Fosu_ But in Wild rift they removed the xp, shield and heal augment for a teammate. So yeah, that change is great so she is now basically a jungler only.
Nilah honestly feels less like a melee ADC and more like a bruiser that they had the idea of putting in botlane. Honestly, Samira feels like a more satisfying melee ADC than Nilah does
Bruisers have durability. She's a skirmisher/adc hybrid who scales like crazy into the late game because of her q passive. Samira is an assassin/adc, with a playstyle that makes her basically an adc katarina.
@@theSafetyCar I'd say Nilah doesn't really scale that well into the late game. In a late game where everyone who's supposed to have 3-5 items has 3-5 items, her having to dive headfirst into a team isn't as consistent or safe as you'd want an ADC to be. Plus, her abilities don't really scale that well after level 9, her E's AD ratio is pathetic considering it's her 2nd of 2 damaging abilities. Her R also doesn't scale crazy well.
Bruisers are meant to be able to soak up damage though. Melee ADCs would be champs like Yasuo, Yone, Yi and Trynda. Idk recently but they have historically built marksman items, are super squishy and each have one crucial ability that lets them avoid or negate damage/cc as an 'exchange ' for their poor range. Compare someone like Aatrox or Renekton to Yasuo and the differences become more apparent.
@@minimonkeymasher8888what do you mean? She’s a top 5, if not the best, gold scaling champion. In the late game she can two shot squishies and three shot tanks, and because her Q gives her Armor pen based off crit, she gets so much free damage she can afford to buy the durability ADC items as well as maybe one non-ADC item + she also gets lifesteal from crit, and with her W she can also dodge all of the opposing ADC’s damage and some of their mages’ as well.
I feel like part of why old rell was so clunky was that they kind of forced her into being a support, when her story and character make no sense. As a rell main, I think it would have done a lot more for her popularity if they designed her to be a true ap bruiser like morde
Part of it makes sense, she violently broke away from what the Academy and Black Rose before they completed her training/conditioning as the Mordekaiser-B-Gone weapon, leaving her a traumatized individual who wants to protect others from the same abuse she was subjected to. Her being a protective support that can do something to Mordekaiser but not outright counter him has some sort of logical throughline. That being said, the fact that voice-lines like: *_"If I trusted people, I would've needed even more armor."_* ,or the classic: *_"Don't let anyone in; never let anyone in"_* were being played when you effectively could not function without a duo was certainly a choice that a person made, even if you want to argue that her entire XxIR0N_M4ID3NxX persona she gives off is just the walls she puts up to not get hurt again. This might be a Hot Take, but from her core bio and story, she sounds like she should have been a Jungler/Midlaner. (Not that I mind her being a support)
@@QuestionableLogic_ yeah I would largely agree, I play her because her personality is charming and hitting a 4 or 5 man Crash Down+Magnet Storm is just so thrilling
@@thecoolestcorgi4991But then she will just be a Morde counter and nothing else, a counterpick. Don't get me wrong, I love Rell but fixing her kit to only work against one character because of lore reasons ain't really it. Rell needs a more in-depth look by Riot to actually give her the practicality she needs, I think her W and new Q work very well, it's her E and Ult that need changes. I think her Ult should clamp enemies or have more Knock-Up duration, and also replace her E with a more potent disengage tool.
Honestly I feel Nilah is highly underrated because of how different she is compared to other adcs. Most people think Samira 2.0 but Nilah plays with a different goal in mind. Watching Chinese players on the super server with her shows her true potential.
fr, Samira is more of a back loaded damage since she has to scale her passive up to get her ULT, while Nilah is front loaded damage since can just immediately dive in with E and ult.
That's the issue tho. In general champions that are extremely different from every other champion in their position don't get played. For a chinese onetrick it might make sense to play Nilah, but for anyone who want's to improve in general or for pro players learning Nilah is not worth it.
@@LordKeram not really the real problem with her is ppl dont like they cant just roll there face on there keyboard and get free kills. With her you have to play around her atk range and play more of a hyper offensive neutral game more akin to a cait then being a face rolling combo adc like simara. Ppl want to play her like an all in engage Powerhouse when shes actully a lane bully
@@rosediomond4661Samira is not back loaded in the slightest. It's incredibly easy to pop her ult in under a second, and it's being done 99% of the time. The only exception is when you're setting up for a double ult.
I think the problem is that duo laners have holes built into their kits to keep them from being solo laners. Renata has f-all ability to solo, Rell had giant weaknesses when unmounted, etc. Solo laners get built such that they can usually hit confirm into full combo, which is often times lethal, so they feel a lot more satisfying to play.
true that's why rell and Renata are played in competitive settings. Just look at the worlds, they were picked a lot. But in solo queue it's different, you don't know your ADC and/or you two don't know how to play around. I understand why they are not played a lot. And it's worse in low elo, it's easier to play a support like Lulu, Janna, Nautilus or Leona.
I admit that jhin is a great design both thematically and gameplay wise. But It's funny how I "hate" him because of his popularity. People won't shut up about him in every discussion (Jhin mains especially) and it gets a bit stale seeing him picked so often. Tbf that applies to almost all of the popular champions. (also because item power creep enabled him to be way more mobile than he was supposed to be so he can be annoying to catch at 3 items + swifties) But jhin as a champ is gr8 no argument there.
Old Rell was like throwing a Great Knight with 6 movement into the fray and then reclassing into a General with 4 movement and just couldn't catch up when enemies just moved away. Thanks for putting this imagery into my head Vars with the FE Engage Prep theme
The reason nilah's playrate is so low is highly connected to her TRUE melee nature in the neutral game, she has no effective way to trade poke. There are a lot of reasons to pick her over samira, her anti-tank nature and self sustaing gameplay make her not so reliable into the support, at least not by the same extent of samira, being able to proactivaly engage instead of waiting for your team mates.
@@riven4121 thats not true at all lol, i've reached top 2 nilah in my server and peaked master 200 LP and she does prefer engage supports, even in the dev comments about her they said how some parts of her kit were made to interact with enchanters and others with engage (thats why she has the XP boost to increase the pressure from engage supports at lvl 2/3/6 and her W can be used on allies so they can tank a little bit more after going in)
@@mica-hl9brI've main Nilah for quite some time now and from what I've noticed is it's better for her to play with an enchanter if she's not duo with her support since they can just react to her diving in. But when you're duo with your support then it'd be best for her to have an engage support since both can be in sync with each other.
@@rosediomond4661 NIlah has some of the best follow up to engages. Not sure why you need to be on comms to be able to properly setup fights with her. Take fights and try to snowball as much as possible.
As a Rell main, I miss her old E. I recognize that loosing it put her in a better place, but man was diving in then stunning the entire team so satisfying. I knew I was cueing to play a CC bot, so her lack of damage never bothered me.
Nilah is unique in both design and gameplay, she lore is world building and pushed both Demons and Viego's lore forward. It's a shame her first skin was Star Guardian, and it was not even a good one, just a filler
I think it's pretty obvious why all these champs are so controversial. They have increasing amounts of utility, mobility, and flexibility in their kit that focuses on snowballing and flashy outplay potential. They all have pieces added to their kits that exist as a middle finger to whoever they are opposing that makes them difficult to balance around and Riot is too stubborn to remove or rework. Gwen is immune. Viego chains kills with his passive that only makes him more snowbally. Yone can close the gap across an entire screen, has a zed ult in his kit and a self shield on top of it. Sett getting tons of true damage from you just dealing damage to him. Aphelios lives and dies on poking with his long shot and then getting closer to attack 5 times a second while healing himself with his red attacks. Samira's ult is just a better Kat ult, and although it is more conditional it doesn't take much to get there especially with some support and it has no cooldown. And Akshan has his entire kit balanced around getting revives. All of these champions have the added annoyance of being very feast or famine, which is only made worse by how hard it is to shut someone down and keep them down eithout devoting disproportionate time and resources into that by having your jungler commit to bullying them. Riot put a lot of thought into how you're supposed to play them, but not how fun it is to play against them.
Gwen is immune to only ranged champs (and still get's bullyed by them all day), Viego has the durability of a Limax, Sett has to lose half his health to get the high true damage Haymakers+they can be dogged and he relly's heavally on items for durability (Darius has his decimate heal, Urgot his disdain shilde ans Illaoi her healing from her Elder god passive), Yone is over powerd and Samira is another Viego.
@SharksandSnakesareok Gwen can stand at the edge of her mist and duke it out with a melee champ, not to mention that she still gets increased resistances inside her mist, and going in there as a melee champion is simply committing to an uphill fight. Viego is squishy only when he's himself, and that's not a weakness that's unique to him. Most assassins are, but none can really match the snowballing effect of taking on other champion forms, and being invulnerable while doing so. Sett losing half of his health doesn't matter to much when he's got a ton of extra base health regen and as a bruiser/tank it's not like him taking damage is something out of the ordinary. If he's taking a lot of damage, then he gets the super haymaker. If he isn't, he's probably winning the fight anyway.
@@bullettime1116 Yeah I don't think Gwen is particularly good. I think a lot of that is because her items kinda suck right now, especially compared to what AD bruisers get. I'm pretty sure if Gwen was an AD champion she would be an absolute abomination tbh
@@rosediomond4661 The nerfs really didnt hurt that bad. It was mostly late game ult scaling and you get so much value out of early all-ins that you normally win before the nerfs become relevant
@@luckas221a there was a Very specific time frame of champion design where Riot combined both overloaded and overtuned champion kits and made exodia characters like Kaisa and Sylas, nowadays if a champ has 7 passives yk each of them is gonna have incredibly low numbers and the champ might be broken in concept but in practice they are on the weaker side/serve only in specific scenarios, Nilah and Akshan come to mind on this
Renata has the exact same "problem" as Bard, very skill intensive support with wild performance variance. You can go from T1 Keria to "rep supp, can't hit a single ult" with champs like her. Another point I see though is that she is what I would call a "build ambiguous" champion, her kit doesn't make it immediately apparent as to what she wants to build. This isn't inherently a bad thing but with Bard as evidence, you won't be played as much as others because players in general want a set goal with a set build. Also screw Yone and Ksante
My friends Cousin began maining rell right after her release. and he showed me the real dangers of rell as a tank support back in the day. he was going off tank ap bruiser builds. full tank. full cdr. sometimes full mr, or full armor. rushing zhonyas. being a wizard essentially. and everytime i was playing with him, he was locking entire teams. roaming with that champ lvl 2. sometimes sitting in top bush lvl 1 to cheese, and then tp botlane and have won top basiccally. this was done throughout 2020- now. idk he solo ques in 400 lp euw masters and is among the best rells on euw. but in general yeah. this champ sucks if you arent a macro god and have good pressence from beginning to finish since rell has no damage and relies on cordination which alot of rells hit a wall with.
Rell hits a wall at low elo. She doesn't offer anything at all. Yasuo has been afk in front of your cait for 10 minions and cait never hit him. Whats 2 more seconds. Cc scales with rank. Damage is always useful and easiest to climb with. She suffers in mid/low elos by being WAAAAAY to team reliant. Thats why rito keeps forcing tank items to be so high damage.
I think you should also mention Milio. After he got nerfed he's pretty much just... an average enchanter whose only standout gimmick is range increase and an ultimate that's a free cleanse. His playrate has plummeted significantly since to the point you almost never see him played anymore.
I believe the premise behind Milio was to make a “by the book” enchanter which wasn’t setting him up to be interesting but I think his range extension and cleanse are unique enough to set him apart. Naafiri on the other hand…. like IK assassins are hard but surely even someone like Zed is intuitive enough for beginners even if his skill ceiling is high.
Yone is fun for people, because he's fundamentally broken and unfair. People like winning, and with Yone, you win so easily in fights, that it's barely even trying.
This also has the catch of attracting a lot of bad players who like winning. I beat a Yone as an AD Ezreal mid and made a total fool of him to the point of getting him to rage quit. The champion is so badly designed that I’m usually banking on them being bad players to get ahead rather than playing the match up.
@@Kylesico912x I mean, true. Overpowered champs attract bad players, because they're usually very easy to rank with, and they just look at win numbers, rather than difficulty. It's like Viego, or Shaco. Utterly broken if played proper, or even above average. But a new player? More cannon fodder.
I think there's also the question of "What fantasy is the champion embodying?" I can't imagine there's a huge market for "I want to play someone who sits back and plays with chemicals" - and if there is they can play Singed. And while I absolutely can imagine people going "Yes, I wanna play a character on a horse!" When that champ is slow it's kinda dropping the ball on that fantasy. I'm not sure how large of a demographic focus on the fantasy play but it's gotta go some way to explaining the popularity of Yone Anime Spirit Samurai.
Tanks are so weird in LoL, like in any other games they are exclusively damage sponges. But in LoL they are sponges AND have to deal absurd DMG for some reason. Hot Take: Any tank that isn't super fed shouldn't 1v1 a carry champ
The problem is that if they don't have damage there isn't really a way to peel and use their tank stats. If a tank did 0 damage people would just ignore it. The damage is basically a "taunt".
@@Londronable yep, you can't body block most auto attacks. In shooters you can physically block your mates but not in League. I think tanks just fundamentally don't work. They are either too tanky + too much dmg, or too tanky + infinite CC. And both of those things suck
I think a very huge factor is also the personality and the connection to other champions. If you think of Rell you expect a brutal fighter that gives a **** about other peoples opinion, but sometimes she just seems cringe and lorewise it doen't make sense why Samira didn't catch her already. Also Nilah for example feels like she has potential, but there is nothing to back her background up. She is from a Kingdom we know nothing about and because we dont get to know much more about her background she feels a bit annoying because of her stupid demon of joy.
I feel like the solo queue experience really determines success or not. As you said rell was never picked besides pro before the mid scope but was everywhere in pro. People just want to play a champ that can get their job done in a vacuum. Since you’re most likely not talking to more than 1 person in ranked games, champs that don’t require team effort to get their full value are picked more. I wouldn’t even call old rell a failure. Her ceiling used to be higher, but because she required so much coordination she didn’t get picked. I feel like this sentiment leads to champs like yone who can just do it all because players feel like they have to. All that said, riot should never add voice comms if they don’t want to traumatize a generation of preteens.
Nilah is very fun to use imo, both in lol and LoR. Unfortunately for her she offers a niche gameplan similar to what other champs already provide while being more accessible
I'm just curious how you think Akshan fits into that framework of going too far in one direction cuz from what I understand he has a pretty low playrate.
the problem with akshan is more that he is so incredibly overloaded that he has to be equally as undertuned to not be pick/ban at all levels of play. he either does nothing or everything, and the sheer potential of hit kit makes him too dangerous to make even reasonably strong
The best measure of why certain champions "fail," or, more accurately, fall to lower priorities in picks for solo queue due to niche appeal, generally has to do with either being in pro play jail or being a champion that I like. If it's the latter, expect reworks.
As a Rell OTP since her release, I could never recommend playing her simply because she was an incredibly punishing “high risk high reward” champ at the time. If you failed to land your crash down (w), you were completely vulnerable to the enemy team punishing you as you’re stuck in a self-slowed state (on top of any enemy cc). Without your main engage ability, you had your tether stun (e) which was incredibly buggy and unusable without a nearby teammate, and your ult which relied on your w to initiate or a well-timed flash into the enemy. The lance q meanwhile was only good for popping shields and giving some very minor healing when low in a fight, though did very little dmg. Only reason I continued to play her was simply because she had a very strong + unique engage kit under the right circumstances. The changes have made it so that she now doesn’t only have to rely on her w for engage, but she now offers some extra utility with her movespeed e for both herself and a teammate, which also doubles as an on-hit damage amplifier. That and the q stun makes you far less reliant on always hitting that w. It feels great being able to speed yourself up and have more than 1 option for engaging on the enemy team.
Yone is a sucess because, just like Yasuo, riot keeps inflating him. He is beyond broken, but when playing Yone people relax and troll because they feel unstopable
Playing against Yone feels absolutely terrible with how many free stats he gets from different sources - move speed from his e, attack speed from his passive, crowd control immunity from his e, three dashes, a shield, free damage every third auto from Kraken slayer. He basically is a very well equipped stat checker, who is extremely strong both early and late game. Also, spacing against him, even with a ranged character is almost impossible, especially if you push the lane, cause how many gap closers he has and the ramping move speed makes it impossible to escape from him. Damn, he can even miss his tornado, but just because he is already in your face and it feels like he outdamages you so hard. It's ridiculously overpowered and has very little opportunities to punish him.
@@sivanov23he actually has 3 CC immunity, Q, 2nd E, and R. And all 3 of them are untargeted dashes. That's why he's more OP than Yasuo, who can be kept down with CC. His E even stop dead in place if he gets CCed mid dash. And the fact that Yone keeps his Q stacks after R so he can literally chain knock-up on you.
The only true answer. Yone is anime protagonist type degen character who is absurdly overpowered, like obviously he is played, why is this even a debate.
Fr Yone is gated by his playerbase. He can 1v9 games from just building BotRK, Hullbreaker, and Kraken and split-pushing until victory. He literally has everything a champ needs to deal with every situation. *Three* gapclosers, hybrid damage, self-sustain, disengage, 3 methods of lane poke, two hard CC abilities that cannot be built against, Q scaling off attack speed, CC-immunity on his E, and high base movement speed sitting at 345. Any Yone losing is a pure skill issue.
@@garou9914 Samira is shit vs tanks and the ccs that arent a proyectile, if you pick 5 melees or too much divers with questionable burst against nilah probably u already lost the game when she hits 3 items
Nilah is mostly fine, like her kit is basic. Don't find it creative, interesting or anything, but what makes me despise her is the XP passive. There is no reason for that to exist, it's toxic and unhealthy to the game. Living proof of that is old Morde, who had the same bonus XP passive, which got removed specifically because it was broken
I think everything said is fairly accurate. Generally the more niche a champion is the more uncomfortable it is for most players to play them. But the problem is that if you don’t make them niche they may end up being unenjoyable anyways because of the fact it is copy paste another champion. There are always exceptions though.
What the other dude said, samira is literally on a life line because of her support, she wont be able to do anything if her support isnt compliant with her playstyle, while nilah likes farming and has the option to sit there and wait until 2-3 items
She can play well with so many more supports than that. Lulu, Yuumi, and thresh just to name a few. Any amount of shields along with CC goes crazy and its all about the early all in
The reason champs like Briar and Yone are popular and Renata and Rell even if they are very good is cause the former you can just mash your keyboard and run into them and auto win and the later you actually need to time when to use.
Also renata and rell are clunky and slow (not really rell anymore but renata) and have long CDs.. they’re just really not that fun if I’m being honest, and I have a good amount of playtime on both
Hwei video soon? Curious to hear your thoughts! Ive played for 14 years since the end of beta and Hwei is my favorite champ theyve ever made (but im biased because i love mages)
I used to be a Rell main when she came out (and I might come back with the new season's items) but I still dislike the new E. Attract and Repel (the old one), being positional CC - a very rare ability type but one of my personal favorites - was incredibly rewarding, allowing you to use your all in combo and still be able to peel for your ADC. The new E is fine, and it allows Jungle Rell which is cool, but it takes away imo part of her identity as a supportive tank (which was the whole reason people disliked her but w/e). Now we really only have Taric and Thresh and maybe Alistar as supportive tanks which is a darn shame. Yeah it's not great when your effectiveness as a champ is influenced by another player's ability, but when you're in sync on god it's one of the best feelings.
I feel that while the Points about Purpose vs. Practicality are important for a champs Success, I belive there is also just the simple Point of how Fun a champ is to play and how Satisfying is it to make plays with them.
Personally I think that their biggest problem was that they designed the champs to be fun but did nothing to also make them fair against. Fun is great and all, but if the champ isnt also fair to play against or is just too confusing then its a failure. To this day I have no clue how they did Akali W and they just conpletely ignored the fact that they now gave an assasin the ability to ignore towers, the only thing making it possible to play losing matchups. And putting that on as assasin, a champ, that is made to kill the opponent first and foremost is just so stupid, I have no clue how you would ever go through the entire developement process without realising that its ridiculous beyond belief.
akali and akshan are what i like to call singleplayer characters, exactly for that reason. they were designed to be fun and rewarding to play as, but with no considering on how it feels to play AGAINST them. their movesets feel like they belong more in a singleplayer game than a multiplayer game
The biggest thing is definitely having a kit that's rewarding to play with and makes sense. But I don't think we should discount overall design. For example, Volibear's kit is good. It makes sense and it's fun to play with. But the theming, the lore, his voice lines, how all of those and his kit work together is what makes Volibear fun to play for me. I might be the only one but I love characters that make you *feel* the character while you play them
I think the biggest problem with champ design these days (both failures and successes) is that a lot of them juat feel like they were thrown in to check off a specific box (which Riot kinda admitted to iirc). Nilah's purpose? They wanted a melee adc Renata's purpose? They wanted an evil enchanter K'Sante's purpose? They wanted to combine the two tank classes into one Viego's purpose? They wanted a champ that can turn into every other champ And it really doesn't go much beyond that initial idea when they actually make the champs it feels like. So every new champ kinda just has whatever in their kit so the team can say "well, we checked that box." Pretty much like experiments, and some work and don't
5:47 btw Her passive was BUGGED FOR 2 YEARS, or it didn't do the 2nd part of her passive Stealing mr and armor was working But appliying that armor stolen as magic damage, It never worked after like 6 months when she came out I send bug reports to riot, But no obe played her so no one cared, even if they changed at least the wording on her passive, She could do a max of 48 magic damage and after that she was supposed to add the armor and mr stolen as magic damage, it never got fix New rell is ok, I mean I like her playstyle and as long it stays the same I am fine, and now the passive works correctly, but u don't get the extra attack magoc damage sadly(it would be too strong ngl)
Idk why but I like playing champs which many might consider weak or less dynamic. I have played Rell & Renata Glasc and enjoyed both champs. Even previous champs like Ivern who isn't that great at damage output is a fun one
I think nilah has a pretty clear purpose and it’s to absolutely dunk on crit marksmen. U best they in short trades because of q and u beat them in all ins with w and ult exists to help with ganks and a way to use your lead to win games in team fights
I mean Renata is a weird case cause almost right after she came out enchanter meta in the bot lane disappeared so that definitely affected her pick rate as well
when I get assigned bot to play with my friends, I play either Samira or if Samira is banned or picked by enemy, I just go Nilah. Samira is a bit more flashy than Nilah and that does it for me. But ngl, Nilah feels way more stable and consistent. If I was gonna play ranked as autofill adc, I would pick Nilah 99% of the time. Same why I prefer Yasuo over Yone(more flashy). Pyke over Nauti or Leona. Lee Sin over Bel veth. Irelia over Fiora or Riven. If it looks good on my recording, I'm happy with the champ.
I disagree with your statement that Nilah is hit and run. You just have to get an engager and ignore her passive completely. Her W and constant conq stacking with spells favours long term fights.
With the thought of "pragmaticism versus stand-out identity", I'm already worried on how Hwei's 'DotA2 Invoker'-ish playstyle will turn out. I pity whoever will be casting pro games that he'll be played in, those casters will have a terrifying throwback to when Aphelios' 5 guns were still too much info to handle in fights.
Nilah is truly an amazing character with unique 2 dashes that no other champion has in the entire game. Her kit is so well made giving you so many opportunities and choices in every single teamfight. In lane, you always have to make a decision either to go in and use your 2 E stacks for trading or keep them and use your E stacks defensively. Not to mention she's so much fun especially when you land those juicy 5 men ults that you win the entire game off! And she's doing a great job as a Marksman taking objectives really fast due to how well her kit is scaling with Crit chance!
I don't think there is anything wrong wit the design of Nilah because Samira exists with a very similar proposition and a high pick rate, even if i check the numbers, her cost benefic makes Nilah clearly one of the best marksmans of the game for the majority of patchs and she is still one the lowest picked adc's. The narrative that makes more sense too me: is that her range and playstyle is too different and adc players are very conservative and just want play another high range auto attack champion. Aurelion Sol, Karthus, Seraphine, a bunch of "APcarrys", even Yasuo and Tahm Kench, all have a lot of cost benefic once mastered on bot lane but different from; Top/mid/jungle and even support is away more rare see players trying to be creative or expressive with new picks or playstyles. Quinn, Yone, Tahm Kench came from off meta to staples of Top lane nowdays, even Mid laners start using melee champions like Renekton, Garen, even Singed for some time. We just need to look at the pick rates to belie or prove this statment. Analysis of the kit and how the champion interact with the game on practice, is not enough to justify player behavior at some cases.
As someone who has played nearly 200k on rell i think its not a good argument to say leona and rell have similar purposes, leona is basically all single target and has a lot of single target cc while rells entire kit is built around ccing a large group of the enemy team for a short duration to set up for team followup with aoe damage. The reason i see rell not picked as much is becuase she cant do anything on her own and heavily relies on team communication due to the short duration of her cc and short window of opportunity for your team to follow up.
I do think the visual/thematic is also pretty relevant to some of the failures. As cool as Renata is, she's basically just an older lady in a nice suit with a bane mask. I dig her vibe, but I can see how some players wouldn't be excited by it. Same goes for Nilah - her visual aesthetic is bad by any means, but it does feel a bit generic. She's got a sort of Avatar Water Bender thing, but nothing in her visuals really drums up some of the more interesting parts of her lore (specificaly the whole demonic pact part). She's just a bit unimpressive. Rell's look is great (who doesn't love an armored horse), but the animation of her in the dismounted form makes it look like she's shit her britches. She walks around kinda bowlegged and it just looks so awkward. Not by any means as significant a reason as the points listed in the vid, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some players put off by little stuff like that
Tbh I dotn think Nilahs issue has much to do with her kit as such. Its mostly the fact that she is forced bot and forced to buy crit, and the way she scales with crit means she has no agency, in the early game she is super weak, in the lategame she plays herself.
@DarkKnight179 there is nothing wrong with nilah kit it’s jus the sole fact that every character out ranges her , making the game so boring to play if you don’t have a support who heals you or can engage for you , just playing nilah knowing you loose the game simply because of the fact you didn’t have enough range to even compete can be infuriating which is why her passive is the way it is
This is definitely, because I'm a support main, but I will play champs like Renata or Rell ANY DAY over the BS of edgy assassins - especially Yone who is an assassin with a get out of jail card. But I also legitimately enjoy playing Rell or Renata. Or my main/OTP champion: Karma, one of the champions that can be absolute garbage, but her potential is ridiculous and that's what I love about the champion. Then again, Rell was legitimately not bad before her midscope! Watch stuff from i0ki before the midscope to get a perspective. Maybe it's because ppl didn't know how to play against her, but even with the clunkiness, she worked surprisingly well.
I stopped playing Rell after midscope since they nerfed her early game and made her engage counterable, before you could flash W and press E while above them so they couldnt flash away it was broken getting no less then 3 man ult every fight every single game. also getting first back with darkseal while she had 3 AOE AP SCALING ABILITES WAS NUTS
Nilah Zilian seems a lot of fun, giving exp to each other XD In low elo you want to be as solid as you can get, you prefer facts, not potential bc potential to be done needs teamwork. I played Renata for some time and in low elo you can't use her, your team will not play around you even if you ping and, they will start random fights with the most horror positioning, random splitpush getting killed, random western 1v1 vs a fed oppont getting obliterated, getting arrested into the gray screen to overstay in the enemy jun to try steal a chicken, or getting arrested to try random siege or doing sensless aram in mid, contesting something that can't be contested, the list is infinite, recalling at the worst time of the year and they even do not follow when you got a 5 man ult, they just stay there with pop corn saying "huh? Are we ment to engage now? Duuuhhh i forgor", i swear, my most used ping is "f caution" and 50% of time is useless, ar second place "come the f here", 90% useless So i joined the dark path, now they know what it means to play with a kog AP, they will flame me every time and i will joy in how bad they are gonna olay afther all the bad words at me, usually i wi be the carry, yeah.
honestly as someone who used to dabble in some nilah, her problem compared to samira isnt because of her kit, her kit is good, way too good, its just she has weak base stats to make up for whatever bullshit kit riot designed her with, also samira is just way more satisfying to play, her being a devilmay cry character also adds to her feeling very cool. Also i guess nilah also lanes pretty differently compared to other adcs, so first timers would have trouble learning her, but i cant stress enough how bullshit nilah's kit is if she had good base stats, she basically cant lose against melee teams especially ones that rely on autos and auto resets
i wouldnt call Akshan a balance nightmare, hes had 12 balance changes (not counting bug fixes), meanwhile a champ like aphelios has had 38 balance changes and most of them being nerfs/buffs
Y’all I was on the one yesterday and I noticed some thing there is just less amor in the game but seamingly it at least as much as I can tell same as but there is more magic reset but way more ap. So basically they both got buffed but one will scale way harder. Also ap is broken low elo they don’t know how to itemize va champs.
I miss old Rell so much. She lost her unique identity. She was't very hard mechanicly but now she has braindead boring ms buff on E I no longer can peel my ADC they way I liked to. And I can't stand using this short range Q stun "no commit" engage, it feels terrible to use.The worst thing is that I feel like Riot betrayed me. They told the players they would nerf jg Rell if she out performs support Rell and she is clearly more suited to play jg. Like what's the point of picking Rell now. They took away some of her ability to find 5 man (shorter W range). They took away her whole vanguard identy by removing heal on Q and tether and bonus resists for allies on E. She is not the champ I fall in love in when I saw her abilities. I hate stun on Q, I hate her shorter W and I hate this braindead boring MS buff on E. Now you just run at enemies with 700 ms. I can't be as creative as I could with old skill set.
Same is actually true for Sylas, Yone, and Leona, while the themes of Rell is dull as heck. I personally like Renata's theme, but it's niche to say the least.
An issue with Nilah is all the free stats she gain how many passives and scaling and bonuses are shoved down her kit ? I don't need crit scaling, self regen, and all that shit I wanna play Nilah because she uses a water whip ! but nothing in her kit plays around that (aside from her Q) All of her Q W and E could have granted different properties to her auto attacks/ attack patterns ...but no sad :(
Nilah is amazing only problem is that she's so similar to Samira. Honestly, I thought Morde and Aksha will be pro play staple but .. they are no where to be find..
in essence, the balanced champions with clear strenghts and weaknesses and fair counterplay is too inconsistent in a world where August has free range to take designs straight from his own meth-induced delusions.
Have you considered doing videos of your thoughts on how to balance champions? An example might be how Viego’s kit is lack luster because all of his power budget is in his passive.
I wonder if Yone would be more balanced if they made his sound thing he bounced back to able to take damage and reflect it back to him for 10% of the damage taken. Sorta like illaoi "e" why can you hit her sould she pulls and not his.
I feel like nilah is only played in the adc role because her passive kinda forces her to do so. I feel like shed have more success if she straight up had no passive
Nah. Even tho her passive makes it seem like it's best for her to have an enchanter for a support, it's actually better for her to have an engage support. The thing that's keeping her from playing top lane would be her squishy-ness. Sure she has her W to protect her, but that thing has an over 20 second cooldown.
Depends on your perspective. Objectively Darius is an old champion but he was the newest one added when I started so there is a part of me that see him as a "new" champion.
If they make cc cancel Yone E back then I am fine with it. His E cancels the whole purpose of cc bcz at least Qs isnt a free ticket home while also does true dmg
Add the fact that he can reactively cancle the e early, which means that even the few garenteed ccs he can ignore as long as he starts it before he's hit.
you have no clue about the game in what world can samira engage better than nilah? 1.nilah has w which cancels every auto for like 2 sec samira has w which destroys like 1 bullet 2. nilah has CC on her ultimate which heals her and samira has to use like 5 abilities before she can ulti so before she does anything she is dead if she engages 1st. samira needs someone to engage for her nilah can just jump in depending on the teamcomp of course but nilah can still engage 1st in a lot more matchups.
Riot's had a bad habit of getting carried away in a misguided attempt to make new characters "feel different" for years now. Ornn is the perfect example for me, even if you entirely remove his ability to make items in lane AND the Ornn upgrades he would still be a perfectly viable champion just with his normal kit. But no, they needed to stick a stupid gimmick (that's a nightmare to balance) on him so that he wouldn't be "just another tank"...
Hwei is in a weird spot. He is not like niliah as he has a defined role, that being a control mage. Its just he does to much that i feel (when he's toned down after release) that he will end up being a to jack of all trades
I think the criteria of champions "succeeding" is rather harsh. Blitzcrank exists. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but the design of Renata, Nilah, and even prechange Rell are fine. There need to exist low pick rate yet high impact clunky champions in the game.
It's so fun watching Vars curse off Yone in the same still and calm voice
I prefer to believe that he just cuts the rest when he starts uncontrollably curse Yone.
@@royavidan behind the scenes on Patreon this video is indeed 20 minutes longer due to Vars being on a tangent as to why he hates Yone, completely uncensored with a lot of curses
@@xavilius9488 As he should. Yone is ridiculous.
@@Gershelf 48 percent wr in every lane lol
@@ombaaaaHis win rate doesn’t matter as long as his kit is the same he will always be an overloaded piece of 200 years garbage
I think all of those who may be a ""failure"" can be easily fixed with a little twist.
In Wild Rift, Nilah has a completly different passive that heals her whenever she strikes a critical attack, which made her viable as a Jungler and she is pretty much only being played as a Jungler now.
She is super fun to play, not oppressive at all and overall is great champion.
Really? I've never seen a Nilah jungle.
And I really love that her dashes are free targeted. Really good when things go south and I would say necesary, considering she's melee even in ranged form (350 units dosen't mean much, there's a reason why Lillia has healing and high tempo and Urgot durability and the capeability to build bursier and tank.
@SharksandSnakesareok I don't see nilah all that much anymore but yeah nilah in wild rift is more or less only played as a jungler especially with sivir just releasing and caitlyn staying meta in duo for a while now
I still play nilah adc in wr for some matchups but I agree that the jungle is a better fit for her to do her shenanigans
In normal lol she also heals with crits
@@Fosu_ But in Wild rift they removed the xp, shield and heal augment for a teammate.
So yeah, that change is great so she is now basically a jungler only.
I like that Nilah exists as a champion. I dont think that lower play rate = failure unless its severe.
couldnt agree more!
Damn your pfp is what my phone background has been for the past 5 years
@@ryanruler9933 thats upsetting
Nilah honestly feels less like a melee ADC and more like a bruiser that they had the idea of putting in botlane. Honestly, Samira feels like a more satisfying melee ADC than Nilah does
To be fair that's what Nilah really is and, I think, meant by melee ADC.
Bruisers have durability. She's a skirmisher/adc hybrid who scales like crazy into the late game because of her q passive. Samira is an assassin/adc, with a playstyle that makes her basically an adc katarina.
@@theSafetyCar I'd say Nilah doesn't really scale that well into the late game. In a late game where everyone who's supposed to have 3-5 items has 3-5 items, her having to dive headfirst into a team isn't as consistent or safe as you'd want an ADC to be. Plus, her abilities don't really scale that well after level 9, her E's AD ratio is pathetic considering it's her 2nd of 2 damaging abilities. Her R also doesn't scale crazy well.
Bruisers are meant to be able to soak up damage though. Melee ADCs would be champs like Yasuo, Yone, Yi and Trynda. Idk recently but they have historically built marksman items, are super squishy and each have one crucial ability that lets them avoid or negate damage/cc as an 'exchange ' for their poor range. Compare someone like Aatrox or Renekton to Yasuo and the differences become more apparent.
@@minimonkeymasher8888what do you mean? She’s a top 5, if not the best, gold scaling champion. In the late game she can two shot squishies and three shot tanks, and because her Q gives her Armor pen based off crit, she gets so much free damage she can afford to buy the durability ADC items as well as maybe one non-ADC item + she also gets lifesteal from crit, and with her W she can also dodge all of the opposing ADC’s damage and some of their mages’ as well.
I feel like part of why old rell was so clunky was that they kind of forced her into being a support, when her story and character make no sense. As a rell main, I think it would have done a lot more for her popularity if they designed her to be a true ap bruiser like morde
Would also be thematically appropriate because she was basically designed by the black rose specifically for the purpose of beating Mordekaiser
I wish they had designed her as a morde counter as that is what she is in her lore
Part of it makes sense, she violently broke away from what the Academy and Black Rose before they completed her training/conditioning as the Mordekaiser-B-Gone weapon, leaving her a traumatized individual who wants to protect others from the same abuse she was subjected to. Her being a protective support that can do something to Mordekaiser but not outright counter him has some sort of logical throughline.
That being said, the fact that voice-lines like: *_"If I trusted people, I would've needed even more armor."_* ,or the classic:
*_"Don't let anyone in; never let anyone in"_* were being played when you effectively could not function without a duo was certainly a choice that a person made, even if you want to argue that her entire XxIR0N_M4ID3NxX persona she gives off is just the walls she puts up to not get hurt again.
This might be a Hot Take, but from her core bio and story, she sounds like she should have been a Jungler/Midlaner. (Not that I mind her being a support)
@@QuestionableLogic_ yeah I would largely agree, I play her because her personality is charming and hitting a 4 or 5 man Crash Down+Magnet Storm is just so thrilling
@@thecoolestcorgi4991But then she will just be a Morde counter and nothing else, a counterpick.
Don't get me wrong, I love Rell but fixing her kit to only work against one character because of lore reasons ain't really it.
Rell needs a more in-depth look by Riot to actually give her the practicality she needs, I think her W and new Q work very well, it's her E and Ult that need changes.
I think her Ult should clamp enemies or have more Knock-Up duration, and also replace her E with a more potent disengage tool.
Honestly I feel Nilah is highly underrated because of how different she is compared to other adcs. Most people think Samira 2.0 but Nilah plays with a different goal in mind. Watching Chinese players on the super server with her shows her true potential.
fr, Samira is more of a back loaded damage since she has to scale her passive up to get her ULT, while Nilah is front loaded damage since can just immediately dive in with E and ult.
That's the issue tho. In general champions that are extremely different from every other champion in their position don't get played. For a chinese onetrick it might make sense to play Nilah, but for anyone who want's to improve in general or for pro players learning Nilah is not worth it.
@@LordKeram not really the real problem with her is ppl dont like they cant just roll there face on there keyboard and get free kills.
With her you have to play around her atk range and play more of a hyper offensive neutral game more akin to a cait then being a face rolling combo adc like simara. Ppl want to play her like an all in engage Powerhouse when shes actully a lane bully
@@rosediomond4661Samira is not back loaded in the slightest. It's incredibly easy to pop her ult in under a second, and it's being done 99% of the time. The only exception is when you're setting up for a double ult.
Ppls like Samira more because shes more "badass" design and kit whise and has resets. Thats it.
I think the problem is that duo laners have holes built into their kits to keep them from being solo laners. Renata has f-all ability to solo, Rell had giant weaknesses when unmounted, etc. Solo laners get built such that they can usually hit confirm into full combo, which is often times lethal, so they feel a lot more satisfying to play.
I fully agree with you and that is something the whole video missed.
true that's why rell and Renata are played in competitive settings.
Just look at the worlds, they were picked a lot.
But in solo queue it's different, you don't know your ADC and/or you two don't know how to play around.
I understand why they are not played a lot.
And it's worse in low elo, it's easier to play a support like Lulu, Janna, Nautilus or Leona.
A creative moveset with a clear identity and being very effective at that while still being a healthy champion for the game: Jhin
also gnar
@@somo4227I use to not like gnar but i think hes in a better spot now.
Good joke saying Jhin is a good design, that shit is either broken or useless
I admit that jhin is a great design both thematically and gameplay wise.
But It's funny how I "hate" him because of his popularity.
People won't shut up about him in every discussion (Jhin mains especially) and it gets a bit stale seeing him picked so often. Tbf that applies to almost all of the popular champions.
(also because item power creep enabled him to be way more mobile than he was supposed to be so he can be annoying to catch at 3 items + swifties)
But jhin as a champ is gr8 no argument there.
@@OuhHeycurrently, he’s useless, but that’s because most marksmen are irrelevant unless they get 10 kills before 10 minutes :)
Old Rell was like throwing a Great Knight with 6 movement into the fray and then reclassing into a General with 4 movement and just couldn't catch up when enemies just moved away. Thanks for putting this imagery into my head Vars with the FE Engage Prep theme
The reason nilah's playrate is so low is highly connected to her TRUE melee nature in the neutral game, she has no effective way to trade poke. There are a lot of reasons to pick her over samira, her anti-tank nature and self sustaing gameplay make her not so reliable into the support, at least not by the same extent of samira, being able to proactivaly engage instead of waiting for your team mates.
not to mention that nilah is mostly picked as a response to the enemy set up, while sami is picked depending on your own teams set up.
@@UniEez And the fact Nilah is only really playable with enchanters or Taric because of her passive.
And unlike Samira Nilah is boring as hell
@@riven4121 thats not true at all lol, i've reached top 2 nilah in my server and peaked master 200 LP and she does prefer engage supports, even in the dev comments about her they said how some parts of her kit were made to interact with enchanters and others with engage (thats why she has the XP boost to increase the pressure from engage supports at lvl 2/3/6 and her W can be used on allies so they can tank a little bit more after going in)
@@mica-hl9brI've main Nilah for quite some time now and from what I've noticed is it's better for her to play with an enchanter if she's not duo with her support since they can just react to her diving in. But when you're duo with your support then it'd be best for her to have an engage support since both can be in sync with each other.
@@rosediomond4661 NIlah has some of the best follow up to engages. Not sure why you need to be on comms to be able to properly setup fights with her. Take fights and try to snowball as much as possible.
As a Rell main, I miss her old E. I recognize that loosing it put her in a better place, but man was diving in then stunning the entire team so satisfying. I knew I was cueing to play a CC bot, so her lack of damage never bothered me.
stopped playing rell after she got reworked, she just isn't the same anymore man 😭
@@lithuania3498same
Nilah is unique in both design and gameplay, she lore is world building and pushed both Demons and Viego's lore forward. It's a shame her first skin was Star Guardian, and it was not even a good one, just a filler
the new coven one is pretty cool IMO
Bars: "What is Renata's purpose?"
Everyone else who has eyeballs:
"To be the thickest, dommiest Mommy who ever walked the Rift."
I think it's pretty obvious why all these champs are so controversial. They have increasing amounts of utility, mobility, and flexibility in their kit that focuses on snowballing and flashy outplay potential. They all have pieces added to their kits that exist as a middle finger to whoever they are opposing that makes them difficult to balance around and Riot is too stubborn to remove or rework.
Gwen is immune. Viego chains kills with his passive that only makes him more snowbally. Yone can close the gap across an entire screen, has a zed ult in his kit and a self shield on top of it. Sett getting tons of true damage from you just dealing damage to him. Aphelios lives and dies on poking with his long shot and then getting closer to attack 5 times a second while healing himself with his red attacks. Samira's ult is just a better Kat ult, and although it is more conditional it doesn't take much to get there especially with some support and it has no cooldown. And Akshan has his entire kit balanced around getting revives.
All of these champions have the added annoyance of being very feast or famine, which is only made worse by how hard it is to shut someone down and keep them down eithout devoting disproportionate time and resources into that by having your jungler commit to bullying them. Riot put a lot of thought into how you're supposed to play them, but not how fun it is to play against them.
Gwen is immune to only ranged champs (and still get's bullyed by them all day), Viego has the durability of a Limax, Sett has to lose half his health to get the high true damage Haymakers+they can be dogged and he relly's heavally on items for durability (Darius has his decimate heal, Urgot his disdain shilde ans Illaoi her healing from her Elder god passive), Yone is over powerd and Samira is another Viego.
@SharksandSnakesareok Gwen can stand at the edge of her mist and duke it out with a melee champ, not to mention that she still gets increased resistances inside her mist, and going in there as a melee champion is simply committing to an uphill fight. Viego is squishy only when he's himself, and that's not a weakness that's unique to him. Most assassins are, but none can really match the snowballing effect of taking on other champion forms, and being invulnerable while doing so. Sett losing half of his health doesn't matter to much when he's got a ton of extra base health regen and as a bruiser/tank it's not like him taking damage is something out of the ordinary. If he's taking a lot of damage, then he gets the super haymaker. If he isn't, he's probably winning the fight anyway.
@@I2dios8crazy how gwen loses hard to about 80% of the most common matchups currently popular in toplane, with them all being melee
@@bullettime1116 Yeah I don't think Gwen is particularly good. I think a lot of that is because her items kinda suck right now, especially compared to what AD bruisers get. I'm pretty sure if Gwen was an AD champion she would be an absolute abomination tbh
@@jimjimson6208 she would, but with her kit she'd still get demolished by her biggest counters
Nilah is so freaking fun I play her everyday
She's so underrated. But her recent nerfs bro😫
@@rosediomond4661 The nerfs really didnt hurt that bad. It was mostly late game ult scaling and you get so much value out of early all-ins that you normally win before the nerfs become relevant
She really us fun
Zoe, Kaisa, pyke, sylas and Qiyana all sound flawlessly balanced compared to what we have now lol
not kaisa ulting in and dealing 2.5k damage in 1 second.... Like, literally none of the new champions do that.
@@luckas221ayone.
@@luckas221a there was a Very specific time frame of champion design where Riot combined both overloaded and overtuned champion kits and made exodia characters like Kaisa and Sylas, nowadays if a champ has 7 passives yk each of them is gonna have incredibly low numbers and the champ might be broken in concept but in practice they are on the weaker side/serve only in specific scenarios, Nilah and Akshan come to mind on this
@@Houndfluff the only part thats broken about yone atm is just his w, you can easily play around anything else
Zoe’s problem was just the op passive + ult poke
Renata has the exact same "problem" as Bard, very skill intensive support with wild performance variance. You can go from T1 Keria to "rep supp, can't hit a single ult" with champs like her.
Another point I see though is that she is what I would call a "build ambiguous" champion, her kit doesn't make it immediately apparent as to what she wants to build. This isn't inherently a bad thing but with Bard as evidence, you won't be played as much as others because players in general want a set goal with a set build.
Also screw Yone and Ksante
My friends Cousin began maining rell right after her release. and he showed me the real dangers of rell as a tank support back in the day. he was going off tank ap bruiser builds. full tank. full cdr. sometimes full mr, or full armor. rushing zhonyas. being a wizard essentially. and everytime i was playing with him, he was locking entire teams. roaming with that champ lvl 2. sometimes sitting in top bush lvl 1 to cheese, and then tp botlane and have won top basiccally. this was done throughout 2020- now. idk he solo ques in 400 lp euw masters and is among the best rells on euw. but in general yeah. this champ sucks if you arent a macro god and have good pressence from beginning to finish since rell has no damage and relies on cordination which alot of rells hit a wall with.
rell, on release, also worked great as a counter engage support which is how i usually played her
Rell hits a wall at low elo. She doesn't offer anything at all. Yasuo has been afk in front of your cait for 10 minions and cait never hit him. Whats 2 more seconds.
Cc scales with rank. Damage is always useful and easiest to climb with. She suffers in mid/low elos by being WAAAAAY to team reliant.
Thats why rito keeps forcing tank items to be so high damage.
I think you should also mention Milio. After he got nerfed he's pretty much just... an average enchanter whose only standout gimmick is range increase and an ultimate that's a free cleanse. His playrate has plummeted significantly since to the point you almost never see him played anymore.
What are you talking about? His pickrate is still 5%+ in high elo. He's literally just S13 Lulu.
Millio is played a ton and he’s good right now. He’s not broken, like he was at release and I think he’s very balanced between all elos atm
@@hileutewie probably because I'm in low elo and like I legit never see him picked
I believe the premise behind Milio was to make a “by the book” enchanter which wasn’t setting him up to be interesting but I think his range extension and cleanse are unique enough to set him apart.
Naafiri on the other hand…. like IK assassins are hard but surely even someone like Zed is intuitive enough for beginners even if his skill ceiling is high.
Yone is fun for people, because he's fundamentally broken and unfair. People like winning, and with Yone, you win so easily in fights, that it's barely even trying.
This also has the catch of attracting a lot of bad players who like winning. I beat a Yone as an AD Ezreal mid and made a total fool of him to the point of getting him to rage quit. The champion is so badly designed that I’m usually banking on them being bad players to get ahead rather than playing the match up.
@@Kylesico912x I mean, true. Overpowered champs attract bad players, because they're usually very easy to rank with, and they just look at win numbers, rather than difficulty.
It's like Viego, or Shaco. Utterly broken if played proper, or even above average. But a new player? More cannon fodder.
I think there's also the question of "What fantasy is the champion embodying?"
I can't imagine there's a huge market for "I want to play someone who sits back and plays with chemicals" - and if there is they can play Singed.
And while I absolutely can imagine people going "Yes, I wanna play a character on a horse!" When that champ is slow it's kinda dropping the ball on that fantasy.
I'm not sure how large of a demographic focus on the fantasy play but it's gotta go some way to explaining the popularity of Yone Anime Spirit Samurai.
Tanks are so weird in LoL, like in any other games they are exclusively damage sponges. But in LoL they are sponges AND have to deal absurd DMG for some reason.
Hot Take: Any tank that isn't super fed shouldn't 1v1 a carry champ
The problem is that if they don't have damage there isn't really a way to peel and use their tank stats.
If a tank did 0 damage people would just ignore it.
The damage is basically a "taunt".
@@Londronable yep, you can't body block most auto attacks.
In shooters you can physically block your mates but not in League.
I think tanks just fundamentally don't work.
They are either too tanky + too much dmg, or too tanky + infinite CC. And both of those things suck
I think a very huge factor is also the personality and the connection to other champions. If you think of Rell you expect a brutal fighter that gives a **** about other peoples opinion, but sometimes she just seems cringe and lorewise it doen't make sense why Samira didn't catch her already. Also Nilah for example feels like she has potential, but there is nothing to back her background up. She is from a Kingdom we know nothing about and because we dont get to know much more about her background she feels a bit annoying because of her stupid demon of joy.
I think Rell's backstory is great.
@SharksandSnakesareok because it is
It just doesn't fit with how she is portrayed on the Rift, and that's an issue with the Rift version not her lore
@@the_last_ballad Don't have Rell yet so haven't lisent to any of her voice lines.
To the wiki I guess.
I feel like the solo queue experience really determines success or not. As you said rell was never picked besides pro before the mid scope but was everywhere in pro. People just want to play a champ that can get their job done in a vacuum. Since you’re most likely not talking to more than 1 person in ranked games, champs that don’t require team effort to get their full value are picked more. I wouldn’t even call old rell a failure. Her ceiling used to be higher, but because she required so much coordination she didn’t get picked. I feel like this sentiment leads to champs like yone who can just do it all because players feel like they have to. All that said, riot should never add voice comms if they don’t want to traumatize a generation of preteens.
I've honesty liked all recent supports. I cannot say the sams for the champs they support however
aethetic is important though. Yone looks like a badass revenant samurai with dual swords, Rell looks like a snow cone with a black handle.
That's the funniest description of Rell that I've ever seen.
Unending never stopping joy ( I cannot feel any other emotions)
Nilah is very fun to use imo, both in lol and LoR. Unfortunately for her she offers a niche gameplan similar to what other champs already provide while being more accessible
Coming back to this video all these months later, I can't help but giggle about how a full quarter of this video is dedicated to talking about Yone.
I'm just curious how you think Akshan fits into that framework of going too far in one direction cuz from what I understand he has a pretty low playrate.
He literally has a video on akshan
the problem with akshan is more that he is so incredibly overloaded that he has to be equally as undertuned to not be pick/ban at all levels of play. he either does nothing or everything, and the sheer potential of hit kit makes him too dangerous to make even reasonably strong
The best measure of why certain champions "fail," or, more accurately, fall to lower priorities in picks for solo queue due to niche appeal, generally has to do with either being in pro play jail or being a champion that I like. If it's the latter, expect reworks.
As a Rell OTP since her release, I could never recommend playing her simply because she was an incredibly punishing “high risk high reward” champ at the time. If you failed to land your crash down (w), you were completely vulnerable to the enemy team punishing you as you’re stuck in a self-slowed state (on top of any enemy cc). Without your main engage ability, you had your tether stun (e) which was incredibly buggy and unusable without a nearby teammate, and your ult which relied on your w to initiate or a well-timed flash into the enemy. The lance q meanwhile was only good for popping shields and giving some very minor healing when low in a fight, though did very little dmg.
Only reason I continued to play her was simply because she had a very strong + unique engage kit under the right circumstances. The changes have made it so that she now doesn’t only have to rely on her w for engage, but she now offers some extra utility with her movespeed e for both herself and a teammate, which also doubles as an on-hit damage amplifier. That and the q stun makes you far less reliant on always hitting that w. It feels great being able to speed yourself up and have more than 1 option for engaging on the enemy team.
Yone is a sucess because, just like Yasuo, riot keeps inflating him. He is beyond broken, but when playing Yone people relax and troll because they feel unstopable
Playing against Yone feels absolutely terrible with how many free stats he gets from different sources - move speed from his e, attack speed from his passive, crowd control immunity from his e, three dashes, a shield, free damage every third auto from Kraken slayer. He basically is a very well equipped stat checker, who is extremely strong both early and late game. Also, spacing against him, even with a ranged character is almost impossible, especially if you push the lane, cause how many gap closers he has and the ramping move speed makes it impossible to escape from him. Damn, he can even miss his tornado, but just because he is already in your face and it feels like he outdamages you so hard. It's ridiculously overpowered and has very little opportunities to punish him.
@@sivanov23he actually has 3 CC immunity, Q, 2nd E, and R. And all 3 of them are untargeted dashes. That's why he's more OP than Yasuo, who can be kept down with CC. His E even stop dead in place if he gets CCed mid dash. And the fact that Yone keeps his Q stacks after R so he can literally chain knock-up on you.
The only true answer. Yone is anime protagonist type degen character who is absurdly overpowered, like obviously he is played, why is this even a debate.
Fr Yone is gated by his playerbase. He can 1v9 games from just building BotRK, Hullbreaker, and Kraken and split-pushing until victory.
He literally has everything a champ needs to deal with every situation. *Three* gapclosers, hybrid damage, self-sustain, disengage, 3 methods of lane poke, two hard CC abilities that cannot be built against, Q scaling off attack speed, CC-immunity on his E, and high base movement speed sitting at 345. Any Yone losing is a pure skill issue.
idk y’all nilah was a hit in my house
Idk for me she's just a worse Samira
She is broken, I despise her so much
@@garou9914 Samira is shit vs tanks and the ccs that arent a proyectile, if you pick 5 melees or too much divers with questionable burst against nilah probably u already lost the game when she hits 3 items
Nilah is mostly fine, like her kit is basic. Don't find it creative, interesting or anything, but what makes me despise her is the XP passive. There is no reason for that to exist, it's toxic and unhealthy to the game. Living proof of that is old Morde, who had the same bonus XP passive, which got removed specifically because it was broken
Everytime I play Nilah, I lose…
But honestly, every time I play botlane, I lose. Unless I’m facing bots, then I win 🥰
I think everything said is fairly accurate. Generally the more niche a champion is the more uncomfortable it is for most players to play them. But the problem is that if you don’t make them niche they may end up being unenjoyable anyways because of the fact it is copy paste another champion. There are always exceptions though.
I think nilah is way too support reliant - every other support except maybe for taric and rakan is bad when paired with nilah
Nilah isn't as support reliant as samira.
What the other dude said, samira is literally on a life line because of her support, she wont be able to do anything if her support isnt compliant with her playstyle, while nilah likes farming and has the option to sit there and wait until 2-3 items
nilah isn't support reliant, she's matchup reliant
nilah is both setup and follow up, samira is just the former
She can play well with so many more supports than that. Lulu, Yuumi, and thresh just to name a few. Any amount of shields along with CC goes crazy and its all about the early all in
The reason champs like Briar and Yone are popular and Renata and Rell even if they are very good is cause the former you can just mash your keyboard and run into them and auto win and the later you actually need to time when to use.
Also renata and rell are clunky and slow (not really rell anymore but renata) and have long CDs.. they’re just really not that fun if I’m being honest, and I have a good amount of playtime on both
11:00 and here I thought we'd have to hit a subscriber goal to hear this😂
Hwei video soon? Curious to hear your thoughts! Ive played for 14 years since the end of beta and Hwei is my favorite champ theyve ever made (but im biased because i love mages)
I used to be a Rell main when she came out (and I might come back with the new season's items) but I still dislike the new E. Attract and Repel (the old one), being positional CC - a very rare ability type but one of my personal favorites - was incredibly rewarding, allowing you to use your all in combo and still be able to peel for your ADC. The new E is fine, and it allows Jungle Rell which is cool, but it takes away imo part of her identity as a supportive tank (which was the whole reason people disliked her but w/e). Now we really only have Taric and Thresh and maybe Alistar as supportive tanks which is a darn shame. Yeah it's not great when your effectiveness as a champ is influenced by another player's ability, but when you're in sync on god it's one of the best feelings.
When it didn't bug out, yes. It was rewarding
Briar is the most fun I've had playing League in literal YEARS.
True would love to see more auto pilot champs that require me to sit back and let the game play itself.
I feel that while the Points about Purpose vs. Practicality are important for a champs Success, I belive there is also just the simple Point of how Fun a champ is to play and how Satisfying is it to make plays with them.
Personally I think that their biggest problem was that they designed the champs to be fun but did nothing to also make them fair against. Fun is great and all, but if the champ isnt also fair to play against or is just too confusing then its a failure. To this day I have no clue how they did Akali W and they just conpletely ignored the fact that they now gave an assasin the ability to ignore towers, the only thing making it possible to play losing matchups. And putting that on as assasin, a champ, that is made to kill the opponent first and foremost is just so stupid, I have no clue how you would ever go through the entire developement process without realising that its ridiculous beyond belief.
akali and akshan are what i like to call singleplayer characters, exactly for that reason. they were designed to be fun and rewarding to play as, but with no considering on how it feels to play AGAINST them. their movesets feel like they belong more in a singleplayer game than a multiplayer game
The biggest thing is definitely having a kit that's rewarding to play with and makes sense. But I don't think we should discount overall design. For example, Volibear's kit is good. It makes sense and it's fun to play with. But the theming, the lore, his voice lines, how all of those and his kit work together is what makes Volibear fun to play for me.
I might be the only one but I love characters that make you *feel* the character while you play them
I think the biggest problem with champ design these days (both failures and successes) is that a lot of them juat feel like they were thrown in to check off a specific box (which Riot kinda admitted to iirc).
Nilah's purpose? They wanted a melee adc
Renata's purpose? They wanted an evil enchanter
K'Sante's purpose? They wanted to combine the two tank classes into one
Viego's purpose? They wanted a champ that can turn into every other champ
And it really doesn't go much beyond that initial idea when they actually make the champs it feels like. So every new champ kinda just has whatever in their kit so the team can say "well, we checked that box." Pretty much like experiments, and some work and don't
"most Nilah's I run into my games are either one tricks or duo with their support"
That described me perfectly.
I made A Renata from silver to Emerald.
Im still Climbing to Master by the end of this year in hopes to see what's the fuss about.
I’d love to hear your take on Hwei
5:47 btw Her passive was BUGGED FOR 2 YEARS, or it didn't do the 2nd part of her passive
Stealing mr and armor was working
But appliying that armor stolen as magic damage, It never worked after like 6 months when she came out
I send bug reports to riot, But no obe played her so no one cared, even if they changed at least the wording on her passive, She could do a max of 48 magic damage and after that she was supposed to add the armor and mr stolen as magic damage, it never got fix
New rell is ok, I mean I like her playstyle and as long it stays the same I am fine, and now the passive works correctly, but u don't get the extra attack magoc damage sadly(it would be too strong ngl)
As a silver/gold player who loved Rell on release I was super disappointed on how few people were playing her.
I thought you’d release a vid about Hwei but this is cool too
Idk why but I like playing champs which many might consider weak or less dynamic. I have played Rell & Renata Glasc and enjoyed both champs. Even previous champs like Ivern who isn't that great at damage output is a fun one
I think nilah has a pretty clear purpose and it’s to absolutely dunk on crit marksmen. U best they in short trades because of q and u beat them in all ins with w and ult exists to help with ganks and a way to use your lead to win games in team fights
I mean Renata is a weird case cause almost right after she came out enchanter meta in the bot lane disappeared so that definitely affected her pick rate as well
when I get assigned bot to play with my friends, I play either Samira or if Samira is banned or picked by enemy, I just go Nilah. Samira is a bit more flashy than Nilah and that does it for me. But ngl, Nilah feels way more stable and consistent. If I was gonna play ranked as autofill adc, I would pick Nilah 99% of the time. Same why I prefer Yasuo over Yone(more flashy). Pyke over Nauti or Leona. Lee Sin over Bel veth. Irelia over Fiora or Riven. If it looks good on my recording, I'm happy with the champ.
So funny that i play both rell (my main) and Renata as secondary champ i guess going too far with something is exactly what i like xd😂
I disagree with your statement that Nilah is hit and run. You just have to get an engager and ignore her passive completely. Her W and constant conq stacking with spells favours long term fights.
With the thought of "pragmaticism versus stand-out identity", I'm already worried on how Hwei's 'DotA2 Invoker'-ish playstyle will turn out. I pity whoever will be casting pro games that he'll be played in, those casters will have a terrifying throwback to when Aphelios' 5 guns were still too much info to handle in fights.
Nilah is truly an amazing character with unique 2 dashes that no other champion has in the entire game. Her kit is so well made giving you so many opportunities and choices in every single teamfight. In lane, you always have to make a decision either to go in and use your 2 E stacks for trading or keep them and use your E stacks defensively. Not to mention she's so much fun especially when you land those juicy 5 men ults that you win the entire game off! And she's doing a great job as a Marksman taking objectives really fast due to how well her kit is scaling with Crit chance!
Exactly, people must give her a chance before hating on her
I don't think there is anything wrong wit the design of Nilah because Samira exists with a very similar proposition and a high pick rate, even if i check the numbers, her cost benefic makes Nilah clearly one of the best marksmans of the game for the majority of patchs and she is still one the lowest picked adc's.
The narrative that makes more sense too me: is that her range and playstyle is too different and adc players are very conservative and just want play another high range auto attack champion.
Aurelion Sol, Karthus, Seraphine, a bunch of "APcarrys", even Yasuo and Tahm Kench, all have a lot of cost benefic once mastered on bot lane but different from; Top/mid/jungle and even support is away more rare see players trying to be creative or expressive with new picks or playstyles.
Quinn, Yone, Tahm Kench came from off meta to staples of Top lane nowdays, even Mid laners start using melee champions like Renekton, Garen, even Singed for some time. We just need to look at the pick rates to belie or prove this statment.
Analysis of the kit and how the champion interact with the game on practice, is not enough to justify player behavior at some cases.
Agree.
I refuse to belive she's weak.
It really is just the cultura down there that got her such a small audience.
@@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.I've always believed that the best Nilah users are the ones who used to main top lol
i always wanted a whip champion (at best a badass female) but nilah was a big disappoinment for me personally.
your videos have helped me learn more about league in a few months than i have in years. thank you for being such a good resource for new players. ❤
Champs like nilah and vex didn’t “fail”, they just have a narrower niche. Which is a good thing. Release briar was a genuine fail.
Damn when i see a Yone in vars TH-cam thumbnail i know its gonna be a banger
As someone who has played nearly 200k on rell i think its not a good argument to say leona and rell have similar purposes, leona is basically all single target and has a lot of single target cc while rells entire kit is built around ccing a large group of the enemy team for a short duration to set up for team followup with aoe damage. The reason i see rell not picked as much is becuase she cant do anything on her own and heavily relies on team communication due to the short duration of her cc and short window of opportunity for your team to follow up.
a good og Rell pleyer could be devastating, reason why i loved it
I do think the visual/thematic is also pretty relevant to some of the failures. As cool as Renata is, she's basically just an older lady in a nice suit with a bane mask. I dig her vibe, but I can see how some players wouldn't be excited by it.
Same goes for Nilah - her visual aesthetic is bad by any means, but it does feel a bit generic. She's got a sort of Avatar Water Bender thing, but nothing in her visuals really drums up some of the more interesting parts of her lore (specificaly the whole demonic pact part). She's just a bit unimpressive.
Rell's look is great (who doesn't love an armored horse), but the animation of her in the dismounted form makes it look like she's shit her britches. She walks around kinda bowlegged and it just looks so awkward. Not by any means as significant a reason as the points listed in the vid, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some players put off by little stuff like that
I want a video on hwei thoughts :)
I love the videos where you just give your thoughts
1:11 the bar is that low?
Tbh I dotn think Nilahs issue has much to do with her kit as such. Its mostly the fact that she is forced bot and forced to buy crit, and the way she scales with crit means she has no agency, in the early game she is super weak, in the lategame she plays herself.
@DarkKnight179 there is nothing wrong with nilah kit it’s jus the sole fact that every character out ranges her , making the game so boring to play if you don’t have a support who heals you or can engage for you , just playing nilah knowing you loose the game simply because of the fact you didn’t have enough range to even compete can be infuriating which is why her passive is the way it is
The funniest thing about the 200 years memes and complaints is that so many of the 200 years champs aren’t played
This is definitely, because I'm a support main, but I will play champs like Renata or Rell ANY DAY over the BS of edgy assassins - especially Yone who is an assassin with a get out of jail card.
But I also legitimately enjoy playing Rell or Renata. Or my main/OTP champion: Karma, one of the champions that can be absolute garbage, but her potential is ridiculous and that's what I love about the champion.
Then again, Rell was legitimately not bad before her midscope! Watch stuff from i0ki before the midscope to get a perspective. Maybe it's because ppl didn't know how to play against her, but even with the clunkiness, she worked surprisingly well.
I stopped playing Rell after midscope since they nerfed her early game and made her engage counterable, before you could flash W and press E while above them so they couldnt flash away it was broken getting no less then 3 man ult every fight every single game. also getting first back with darkseal while she had 3 AOE AP SCALING ABILITES WAS NUTS
Nilah Zilian seems a lot of fun, giving exp to each other XD
In low elo you want to be as solid as you can get, you prefer facts, not potential bc potential to be done needs teamwork. I played Renata for some time and in low elo you can't use her, your team will not play around you even if you ping and, they will start random fights with the most horror positioning, random splitpush getting killed, random western 1v1 vs a fed oppont getting obliterated, getting arrested into the gray screen to overstay in the enemy jun to try steal a chicken, or getting arrested to try random siege or doing sensless aram in mid, contesting something that can't be contested, the list is infinite, recalling at the worst time of the year and they even do not follow when you got a 5 man ult, they just stay there with pop corn saying "huh? Are we ment to engage now? Duuuhhh i forgor", i swear, my most used ping is "f caution" and 50% of time is useless, ar second place "come the f here", 90% useless
So i joined the dark path, now they know what it means to play with a kog AP, they will flame me every time and i will joy in how bad they are gonna olay afther all the bad words at me, usually i wi be the carry, yeah.
love ur vids but i think you should get a better mic. it's a small thing that makes a big difference imo
I see you Mr editor. Last time it was Xenoblade music, this time its fire emblem engage music, i know you know i have a weakness for Nintendo music
I am so fucking glad they were able to save Rel, she's such a cool character concept but man was her speed loss was AWFUL
honestly as someone who used to dabble in some nilah, her problem compared to samira isnt because of her kit, her kit is good, way too good, its just she has weak base stats to make up for whatever bullshit kit riot designed her with, also samira is just way more satisfying to play, her being a devilmay cry character also adds to her feeling very cool. Also i guess nilah also lanes pretty differently compared to other adcs, so first timers would have trouble learning her, but i cant stress enough how bullshit nilah's kit is if she had good base stats, she basically cant lose against melee teams especially ones that rely on autos and auto resets
I never knew Renatas abilities were all so corporately named, its so fitting to her design
i wouldnt call Akshan a balance nightmare, hes had 12 balance changes (not counting bug fixes), meanwhile a champ like aphelios has had 38 balance changes and most of them being nerfs/buffs
Ornn’s ult is piss easy to hit if you can snipe them with it, using it at max range guarantees the slow and guaranteeing the knockup
Y’all I was on the one yesterday and I noticed some thing there is just less amor in the game but seamingly it at least as much as I can tell same as but there is more magic reset but way more ap. So basically they both got buffed but one will scale way harder. Also ap is broken low elo they don’t know how to itemize va champs.
I miss old rell. She was legitimately my best supp and i loved the fact she even had healing lol
What happened to the maplestory videos !?
I miss old Rell so much. She lost her unique identity. She was't very hard mechanicly but now she has braindead boring ms buff on E I no longer can peel my ADC they way I liked to. And I can't stand using this short range Q stun "no commit" engage, it feels terrible to use.The worst thing is that I feel like Riot betrayed me. They told the players they would nerf jg Rell if she out performs support Rell and she is clearly more suited to play jg.
Like what's the point of picking Rell now. They took away some of her ability to find 5 man (shorter W range). They took away her whole vanguard identy by removing heal on Q and tether and bonus resists for allies on E. She is not the champ I fall in love in when I saw her abilities. I hate stun on Q, I hate her shorter W and I hate this braindead boring MS buff on E. Now you just run at enemies with 700 ms. I can't be as creative as I could with old skill set.
Samira's theme is also very cool, a lot cooler than Nilah's (who's theme is pretty stupid).
Same is actually true for Sylas, Yone, and Leona, while the themes of Rell is dull as heck. I personally like Renata's theme, but it's niche to say the least.
Nah, she's awesome.
An issue with Nilah is all the free stats she gain
how many passives and scaling and bonuses are shoved down her kit ?
I don't need crit scaling, self regen, and all that shit
I wanna play Nilah because she uses a water whip !
but nothing in her kit plays around that (aside from her Q)
All of her Q W and E could have granted different properties to her auto attacks/ attack patterns
...but no
sad :(
Nilah is amazing only problem is that she's so similar to Samira. Honestly, I thought Morde and Aksha will be pro play staple but .. they are no where to be find..
in essence, the balanced champions with clear strenghts and weaknesses and fair counterplay is too inconsistent in a world where August has free range to take designs straight from his own meth-induced delusions.
Have you considered doing videos of your thoughts on how to balance champions?
An example might be how Viego’s kit is lack luster because all of his power budget is in his passive.
As a plat yone mid main, I never realized how op my champ is until coming across Vars😂😂😂
I wonder if Yone would be more balanced if they made his sound thing he bounced back to able to take damage and reflect it back to him for 10% of the damage taken. Sorta like illaoi "e" why can you hit her sould she pulls and not his.
The annoying part to me is if you look at the last few champs their abilities are literally just buffed versions of existing abilities.
I feel like nilah is only played in the adc role because her passive kinda forces her to do so. I feel like shed have more success if she straight up had no passive
Nah. Even tho her passive makes it seem like it's best for her to have an enchanter for a support, it's actually better for her to have an engage support. The thing that's keeping her from playing top lane would be her squishy-ness. Sure she has her W to protect her, but that thing has an over 20 second cooldown.
Yone is still considered new?
I think no
More that 3 years its not new but its a champion of the "new lol"
Depends on your perspective. Objectively Darius is an old champion but he was the newest one added when I started so there is a part of me that see him as a "new" champion.
If they make cc cancel Yone E back then I am fine with it. His E cancels the whole purpose of cc bcz at least Qs isnt a free ticket home while also does true dmg
Add the fact that he can reactively cancle the e early, which means that even the few garenteed ccs he can ignore as long as he starts it before he's hit.
you have no clue about the game in what world can samira engage better than nilah? 1.nilah has w which cancels every auto for like 2 sec samira has w which destroys like 1 bullet 2. nilah has CC on her ultimate which heals her and samira has to use like 5 abilities before she can ulti so before she does anything she is dead if she engages 1st. samira needs someone to engage for her nilah can just jump in depending on the teamcomp of course but nilah can still engage 1st in a lot more matchups.
Riot's had a bad habit of getting carried away in a misguided attempt to make new characters "feel different" for years now.
Ornn is the perfect example for me, even if you entirely remove his ability to make items in lane AND the Ornn upgrades he would still be a perfectly viable champion just with his normal kit. But no, they needed to stick a stupid gimmick (that's a nightmare to balance) on him so that he wouldn't be "just another tank"...
Hwei is in a weird spot. He is not like niliah as he has a defined role, that being a control mage. Its just he does to much that i feel (when he's toned down after release) that he will end up being a to jack of all trades
I think the criteria of champions "succeeding" is rather harsh. Blitzcrank exists. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but the design of Renata, Nilah, and even prechange Rell are fine. There need to exist low pick rate yet high impact clunky champions in the game.