That huge bolted on dash with ZERO attempt to integrate it into the car's interior is peak cost-cutting and laziness. I'll be so happy when this miserable trend dies off.
Same with the stupid rear wheel arch on the 4 door M3. They don't blend the door into the arch, the arch just sticks out. So lazy and obvious cost cutting.
When you're driving it, in my experience it looks fine and you don't notice that the dash isn't molded around it. I prefer this to having the screen in the center like Mercedes or Tesla. Overall I agree though, too much screen period. Personally I miss mechanical dials for the tach and speedometer the most.
It's hard to understand why the current M2 exists when the M4 exists also with the same engine, also a coupe, and almost the same weight. It's even roughly the same size at this point. The M2 should be smaller and 3-400 lbs lighter than the M4 to carve out its own market.
They could do a Z4 M, but it'd probably be better than the M2, lol.. That's the cheaper route for them to take. I'd probably still go manual Supra, or CT4-V like someone below said
It's cost. The base M4 is 79k and comp xdrive is 88k The M2 is 65k. For a car with most of its parts carried over from the M4 they save cost by using cheaper materials which are heavier.
My theory is that BMW stopped trying to make their cars light(er) and engaging once tire technology allowed cars to maintain insane grip levels even with 500-700lbs more weight. At that point it became about power and tech and performance numbers. It's much easier to sell a car based on performance metrics rather than how it makes you feel when you drive it and the intengible factors.
Ditch all the carbon fiber jazz, and keep it at 65k. There is absolutely nothing that can touch this car’s performance, practicality, comfort, modifiability, and customization of its suspension/handling to your liking in one package for that price range! An absolute slam dunk by M devision.
@@dre32pitt it’ll likely never depreciate if you buy a 6MT one. Look at values of V2 wagons with the stick. For me it’s a no brainer. More desirable than any M5
@@bk_nreynolds3278 I hear what you're saying, but that's out of the majority of people's price range to begin with.. Most of us are living vicariously through these TH-camrs.. And for me personally.. I finally figured out that I'd rather have multiple cars than 1 compromise vehicle that's newer and more expensive.. I was going to get a GR86 as my only vehicle, but went the used ND Miata & Fiesta ST route instead (for less money as well).. I'm more 'slow car fast' the older I get lol.. I like being able to reach the limit on the street without breaking the speed limits too badly (not possible in my previous car, 987.1 CS)
At what point do we need to say enough is enough with the horsepower war and excessive weight gain for sports cars? There is no point having 600+ HP and 3700+ pounds, on the street to have safe fun you only need 320hp or less, and 3200lb.
My theory is that BMW stopped trying to make their cars light(er) and engaging once tire technology allowed cars to maintain insane grip levels even with 500-700lbs more weight. At that point it became about power and tech and performance numbers. It's much easier to sell a car based on performance metrics rather how it makes you feel when you drive it and intengible factors.
Just buy a Toyota GR86! I think in some areas of the US there are no canyon roads, and certainly not ones that are very tight and full of hairpins, so people there don't find such a car fun to drive?
just started the vid, but i'm going to guess it's one or some of the following: 1. Looks (looks better than it's bucktoof brother, but that aint sayin' much) 2. Weight 3. Price 4. Lack of feel
I drove a 2017 M2 when it was new. Boy was I disappointed. I drove a 2007 Mini Cooper S right before driving the M2 and it was WAY more fun to drive. Ouch.
I drove an auto M2 G87 and I felt very disconnected from the car from throttle to brake to steering even with all features in M-mode. I think it would be a great daily driver/fun car in some ways, but I don't think I would want it for a track/autoX car (even though it is very capable). From what I have seen & read, the F87 seems to be the one to go with it you want better driver feedback + more fun.
I drove an F87 M2 after driving a 2007 Mini Cooper S. The Mini was WAY more engaging and fun to drive. I was shocked. So I then drove an old E46 M3 ( my brother is sales manager at a BMW dealership) and there was no comparison, the 2001 was light-years ahead in regards to driver enjoyment. Uh oh.
I think a z51 C8 is a better $80k car, but I find myself missing the manual so much that I test drove the M2 the other day. I just couldn't get over the stupid dash and the fake engine sounds. How did he disable it??
Typical, all been said before by folks that don’t own the car! I’d like to get a review from someone that actually purchased one and lives with the car every day. Those reviews have a very different flavor.
Jusy traded my G87 M2 for a 981 GT4. Night and day difference. But that M2 is hard to beat for the money. Just too much weight and no steering feel. Only at the limits are any feel and excitement in the conversation. Great commuter but lightweight and nimble is my what i want. That s58 motor is something else.
@Zygrene. How's this compare to your Integra Type S? BMW fans will crucify me for trying to compare the rear drive G87 M2 to a front drive ITS but curious to hear your thoughts. I have had a 2017 BMW M240i 6MT (F22) since new as my fun car. The new G42 M240i no longer offers a MT so I have considered upgrading to an M2 6MT when time comes to replace but not in love with the styling and it sounds like the extra weight and "digital" feel of the brakes, throttle and steering of the G87 dull the experience. I don't track or drift, just spirited driving on back roads. I need something with a backseat, even a smaIl one, so it rules out a Supra or Z4, and would still ilke a manual trans. I do like the styling of the ITS and I've watched the videos you've done on your ITS and you seem to like yours. No doubt the M2 is faster but speed isn't everything. What's more fun to drive on the road in "everyday" driving conditions?
Ugly exterior and interior. I'm sorry, the S58 is a powerhouse but I can't like an atrocious square mess... it's heavy as hell. At least the M3 four door have grown on me.
Went and drove one…..basically around the block and took it back to dealer. The gauges and glass dash were a huge turn off. Terrible actually. I’ll keep f80 M3 …..love the look and feel inside….and round gauge pack. Sorry I am old school. 😊
I drove g87 and g80 both manual back to back they are 90-95% the same behind the wheel, except in limited handling the rear wheel break traction the longer chassis feel more stable and m2 feel friskier. I would go for g87 every time if you don’t need the back seats to save some money.
CS is where it’s at. I had the pleasure to drive an M5 CS on mountain passes and own an M2 CS. Both cars are insanely good. Can’t do much better unless you prefer older BMWs or go to another brand. G80 CS must also be a precision missile
I think BMW have deliberately made the handling a little soft to leave space for a M2 CS model later. 🙂Fenton seems to be talking about how BMW seemed to have refined a lot of the fun out of the car compared to the E92 (or earlier), which is a shame but to be expected I guess.
@ yes I admit it is the strangest cross shop. My main goal is to have a manual shifter I enjoy, most of the reviews were down on the rubbery M3 shifter.
Using the “Halo” achieved by the M3 to sell more “M” cars - is just one of the key factors why the current M2 exists.. cos technically on paper only it’s smaller size (is an advantage?) than vs the M4… weight-wise it’s almost the same (a huge disadvantage).. almost everything else is similar to the M4. regardless it’s the same reasons why a Porsche cayman shares almost 90% internals w a Porsche 911… purists 911 owners will bitch abt brand dilution so on & so forth.. but they will still continue buying the 911 😅… heck once the bitching dies down, they may also buy an extra cayman for their daughter/son… cos its “cheaper” 🙄.. who wins? Porsche/bmw…
Interesting tidbit about using this as a daily: I was talking with a buddy who works at a BMW dealership, he mentioned one things a lot of folks don't think about is range with the new M2. The ZF 8 speed gets a lot more range compared to the 6 speed manual.
It’s just “butt” ugly inside and out….I find the C8 design also jarring. Cars don’t have to look like a Warthog ground attack warplane, though I would love to fly the warthog 😂
That huge bolted on dash with ZERO attempt to integrate it into the car's interior is peak cost-cutting and laziness. I'll be so happy when this miserable trend dies off.
Also the not clever at all, but they thought they were being clever by arranging the tach and speedometer all retarded
Honestly, it makes the interior look so cheap. It's beyond laziness... it's to the point that it's bizarre.
People talking about the grill but i HATE that stretched ipad more than anything else
Same with the stupid rear wheel arch on the 4 door M3. They don't blend the door into the arch, the arch just sticks out. So lazy and obvious cost cutting.
When you're driving it, in my experience it looks fine and you don't notice that the dash isn't molded around it. I prefer this to having the screen in the center like Mercedes or Tesla. Overall I agree though, too much screen period. Personally I miss mechanical dials for the tach and speedometer the most.
It's hard to understand why the current M2 exists when the M4 exists also with the same engine, also a coupe, and almost the same weight. It's even roughly the same size at this point. The M2 should be smaller and 3-400 lbs lighter than the M4 to carve out its own market.
They could do a Z4 M, but it'd probably be better than the M2, lol.. That's the cheaper route for them to take. I'd probably still go manual Supra, or CT4-V like someone below said
@@dre32pitt Yep agreed. The manual Supra seems like the way to go.
It's cost. The base M4 is 79k and comp xdrive is 88k The M2 is 65k. For a car with most of its parts carried over from the M4 they save cost by using cheaper materials which are heavier.
@@memememine1 All the more reason to just cram the S58 into the current Z40i (whatever it's called) and call it a Z4 M
Price
My theory is that BMW stopped trying to make their cars light(er) and engaging once tire technology allowed cars to maintain insane grip levels even with 500-700lbs more weight. At that point it became about power and tech and performance numbers. It's much easier to sell a car based on performance metrics rather than how it makes you feel when you drive it and the intengible factors.
CT4 black wing with that awesome manual and better looks is a better option imo!!
CT4V Blackwing as the alternative for a better sporty car at similar to lower price
This
Both are similarly vague in terms of feel though although the CT4v is slightly better in that regard.
I need to drive one again. I was surprisingly a bit underwhelmed the first time I drove one. A lot of that was due to the uninspiring engine.
I like the 4 and 5 BW cars but the m3 comp would destroy a 4BW. The M3C is so good it can compete and beat the 5BW.
@@Zygrene you prefer the M2 over the CT4?
Ditch all the carbon fiber jazz, and keep it at 65k. There is absolutely nothing that can touch this car’s performance, practicality, comfort, modifiability, and customization of its suspension/handling to your liking in one package for that price range! An absolute slam dunk by M devision.
Within 100lbs of a Chevy SS, a full sized V8 sedan everyone said was too heavy back then...
the spiritual successor to The Beast (E39 M5)
Meanwhile the 5V Blackwing is still relatively light considering the segment it competes in
@@bk_nreynolds3278 that price aint light lol
@@dre32pitt it’ll likely never depreciate if you buy a 6MT one. Look at values of V2 wagons with the stick. For me it’s a no brainer. More desirable than any M5
@@bk_nreynolds3278 I hear what you're saying, but that's out of the majority of people's price range to begin with.. Most of us are living vicariously through these TH-camrs..
And for me personally.. I finally figured out that I'd rather have multiple cars than 1 compromise vehicle that's newer and more expensive.. I was going to get a GR86 as my only vehicle, but went the used ND Miata & Fiesta ST route instead (for less money as well).. I'm more 'slow car fast' the older I get lol.. I like being able to reach the limit on the street without breaking the speed limits too badly (not possible in my previous car, 987.1 CS)
I've said it before, these tablet car interiors will age just like the first gen iphone looks today.
At what point do we need to say enough is enough with the horsepower war and excessive weight gain for sports cars? There is no point having 600+ HP and 3700+ pounds, on the street to have safe fun you only need 320hp or less, and 3200lb.
My theory is that BMW stopped trying to make their cars light(er) and engaging once tire technology allowed cars to maintain insane grip levels even with 500-700lbs more weight. At that point it became about power and tech and performance numbers. It's much easier to sell a car based on performance metrics rather how it makes you feel when you drive it and intengible factors.
Sounds like Integra type s
Just buy a Toyota GR86! I think in some areas of the US there are no canyon roads, and certainly not ones that are very tight and full of hairpins, so people there don't find such a car fun to drive?
just started the vid, but i'm going to guess it's one or some of the following:
1. Looks (looks better than it's bucktoof brother, but that aint sayin' much)
2. Weight
3. Price
4. Lack of feel
Thanks for the review Fenton!
Thanks again Aiden! If you decide to mod the car let me know and we'll run it back
I drove a 2017 M2 when it was new. Boy was I disappointed. I drove a 2007 Mini Cooper S right before driving the M2 and it was WAY more fun to drive. Ouch.
I have 0 lust for any BMW post F80CS and F90CS.
I drove an auto M2 G87 and I felt very disconnected from the car from throttle to brake to steering even with all features in M-mode. I think it would be a great daily driver/fun car in some ways, but I don't think I would want it for a track/autoX car (even though it is very capable). From what I have seen & read, the F87 seems to be the one to go with it you want better driver feedback + more fun.
I drove an F87 M2 after driving a 2007 Mini Cooper S. The Mini was WAY more engaging and fun to drive. I was shocked. So I then drove an old E46 M3 ( my brother is sales manager at a BMW dealership) and there was no comparison, the 2001 was light-years ahead in regards to driver enjoyment. Uh oh.
I think a z51 C8 is a better $80k car, but I find myself missing the manual so much that I test drove the M2 the other day. I just couldn't get over the stupid dash and the fake engine sounds. How did he disable it??
@@brianfick3665 you can use Bimmercode to disable the active sound
Typical, all been said before by folks that don’t own the car! I’d like to get a review from someone that actually purchased one and lives with the car every day. Those reviews have a very different flavor.
Jusy traded my G87 M2 for a 981 GT4. Night and day difference. But that M2 is hard to beat for the money.
Just too much weight and no steering feel. Only at the limits are any feel and excitement in the conversation. Great commuter but lightweight and nimble is my what i want.
That s58 motor is something else.
@Zygrene. How's this compare to your Integra Type S? BMW fans will crucify me for trying to compare the rear drive G87 M2 to a front drive ITS but curious to hear your thoughts. I have had a 2017 BMW M240i 6MT (F22) since new as my fun car. The new G42 M240i no longer offers a MT so I have considered upgrading to an M2 6MT when time comes to replace but not in love with the styling and it sounds like the extra weight and "digital" feel of the brakes, throttle and steering of the G87 dull the experience. I don't track or drift, just spirited driving on back roads. I need something with a backseat, even a smaIl one, so it rules out a Supra or Z4, and would still ilke a manual trans. I do like the styling of the ITS and I've watched the videos you've done on your ITS and you seem to like yours. No doubt the M2 is faster but speed isn't everything. What's more fun to drive on the road in "everyday" driving conditions?
Ugly exterior and interior. I'm sorry, the S58 is a powerhouse but I can't like an atrocious square mess... it's heavy as hell. At least the M3 four door have grown on me.
E39 M5 is 4024 lbs weighed with half a tank of gas in US spec.
F87 CS for the win.
Best balance between F chassis playfulness and G chassis absurd competence
F8x cars are not as capable but they are more raw, more fun and way more engaging.
Went and drove one…..basically around the block and took it back to dealer. The gauges and glass dash were a huge turn off. Terrible actually. I’ll keep f80 M3 …..love the look and feel inside….and round gauge pack. Sorry I am old school. 😊
New BMW's really are "The ultimate driving simulator"
I drove g87 and g80 both manual back to back they are 90-95% the same behind the wheel, except in limited handling the rear wheel break traction the longer chassis feel more stable and m2 feel friskier. I would go for g87 every time if you don’t need the back seats to save some money.
E46 M3, and the F80 M3 CS were my favorite. Didn't care for my M2 competition, very forgettable.
1M for me.. but I'd settle for a gen 1 M2 in Long Beach blue
I really enjoyed the modified M2C I reviewed
CS is where it’s at.
I had the pleasure to drive an M5 CS on mountain passes and own an M2 CS. Both cars are insanely good. Can’t do much better unless you prefer older BMWs or go to another brand. G80 CS must also be a precision missile
My friend is ordering one of these. We test drove one. I don't think this car feels special.
As you mentioned, the brake pedal feels very vague…. Inconsistent resistant feel. It is one of the most annoying things about this Gen M car.
Would be nice if you say or put units in metric as an annotations like torque and weight. Great review as always
@Zygrene How would you compare the F Series M cars to the G series in terms of engagement and driving character?
Mustang Dark Horse or M2, Which is a better daily? and why?
What road was this shot on? It looks like your last couple videos were taken here. I’m guessing Western Sierras.
I think BMW have deliberately made the handling a little soft to leave space for a M2 CS model later. 🙂Fenton seems to be talking about how BMW seemed to have refined a lot of the fun out of the car compared to the E92 (or earlier), which is a shame but to be expected I guess.
Thank you for valuable insights !
Agreed, it may be cheaper than a M4, but it doesnt feel proper because of the weight. No 2 series should weigh that much might as well get the M4
Same with f87 comp and f82 they weight the same
Can u do a review on the track with a yugo
LA DERNIÈRE M2 CS G87 AVAIT LES SUSPENSIONS ADAPTATIVES 🥰🤩
Nothing is missing in the car. Your driving just can’t get near its limits, thats missing.
I am considering either a M3 or Integra Type S next. Which one would you choose if you have to do it over again?
This is the strangest cross shop I’ve seen in a while. The Type S costs a little more than half an M3, and feels that way.
@ yes I admit it is the strangest cross shop. My main goal is to have a manual shifter I enjoy, most of the reviews were down on the rubbery M3 shifter.
Seems like it’s more of a road trip/touring car now
just get a manual supra and use the money savings on mods and track days.
This or a M2 Comp or 1M?
Gee, could it be the ugly body, numb steering and way too busy and over-wrought interior?? Nah!! 😂
Looks like Tahoe
Using the “Halo” achieved by the M3 to sell more “M” cars - is just one of the key factors why the current M2 exists.. cos technically on paper only it’s smaller size (is an advantage?) than vs the M4… weight-wise it’s almost the same (a huge disadvantage).. almost everything else is similar to the M4. regardless it’s the same reasons why a Porsche cayman shares almost 90% internals w a Porsche 911… purists 911 owners will bitch abt brand dilution so on & so forth.. but they will still continue buying the 911 😅… heck once the bitching dies down, they may also buy an extra cayman for their daughter/son… cos its “cheaper” 🙄.. who wins? Porsche/bmw…
Ugly, heavy, auto, lazy design
You dont like it then. 😅
was this car purchase from peter pan bmw.
Interesting tidbit about using this as a daily: I was talking with a buddy who works at a BMW dealership, he mentioned one things a lot of folks don't think about is range with the new M2. The ZF 8 speed gets a lot more range compared to the 6 speed manual.
It doesn't have the giant grille but the grille is still ugly. Give me the previous gen M2
How does this (and the M4) compare to the Mustang Dark Horse?
Mustang is a joke
Who are you?
It’s just “butt” ugly inside and out….I find the C8 design also jarring. Cars don’t have to look like a Warthog ground attack warplane, though I would love to fly the warthog 😂
BMW jumped the shark once the E90 generation came to an end.
The dash is awful.
I’ve seen it multiple times on the streets. To my eyes it doesn’t look any better in person. The M40i looks much better.
Yes but thats your opinion which of course you're entitled to. I saw it in the showroom and loved everything about it. 😅