Naughty Dog On The Last Of Us Part II’s Controversy, Characters, And Ending
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In this Game Informer podcast extra, we have a spoiler-filled interview with The Last of Us Part II’s creative director Neil Druckmann and narrative lead Halley Gross. The Last of Us Part II is one of the biggest releases of the year and has generated a bit of controversy, so we talk to Neil and Halley about their process, how they put the game together, and some of the things that changed along the way.
If you enjoyed this interview extra, be sure to check out our Last of Us Part II spoilercast: • Debating The Controver...
I wish Ellie was real she would be a cool person to know
I imagine her being that kid in school that’s kinda cool but also an outcast
I imagine her as Gwen Tennyson
She was only cool in the first one pt 2 she had no personality
@@inlovewithaghostgirl5940 I mean she did tho
I mean Dina is a real person and she is a rly cool
“Not everyone can have a heroes death in the world of The Last of Us” THAT is respecting the character to the fullest! I love it, thank you Neil, Halley and everyone at Naughty Dog, and thank you for this great interview!
Agree 100
Writings still a disrespect to the Last of Us community. Garbage
What, since when is anyone a hero in TLOU? He said Joel was a hero troughout untill the end? Joel litteraly wanted to get rid of the kid 24/7, get to tommy's leave the kid. Not save her. He wanted to leave her untill like 20-30% at the end game. This dude dosen't even know his own game.
jammedsky no it’s not I’m part of that community and game is a masterpiece sorry bro get over it .
Game is a masterpiece . Stop trying to find shit to whine about .
I loved the story and the switch in perspectives, because I've never really played a game that made me feel the way this one did. Pissed about Joel's death, I practically murdered my way through Seattle as Ellie, showing very little mercy... but then game switches to Abby, and as the player, you interact with the very same people (and dogs :'( ) you just spent the last few hours mercilessly slaughtering, seeing how they live their lives, their relationships, etc etc. I know it's just a video game, but it definitely made me question my own play style as Ellie. I dunno, say what you will about the game, love it or hate it, it was an experience I wasn't expecting, and I walked away impressed.
yeah, I was also impressed by the awful writing
Tyrell why dude, why
@@Evil9630 shut up man
@Akash Samson nope you liked the game
Completely agree Mike. Good writing takes us beyond our comfort zones and forces us to explore other perspectives.
I started out completely enraged by Abby and even refused to use her name. By the end of the game, I was team Abby. I feel like her motivations were clearer and more relatable than Ellie's by a certain point in the game tbh.
Everybody I've talked to that have played the entire game without reading spoilers ahead of time loved the game. Those who saw the spoiler a month ago, and had to sit with it in their mind for a month tended to never give the game a fair chance. Yes, playing as Abby was very emotionally tough, but it really worked in a way that I wasn't expecting as the game went along. Could complain about the mid game reset, but when you consider that Abby is essentially Joel, and that the game isn't trying to make anybody a villain it's easier to process. The game isn't saying that Elle is bad. It's saying that she is processing revenge in the game, and going through the emotional experience that Abby dealt with entering the game. When you start as Abby she wakes up from a nightmare and has no closure, and starts a story of redemption. It's easy to forget that Abby lost everybody/everything in her story. Every WLF character besides her died, and she was forced to kill the many of them as they turned on her. This is where Elle was at the end of story as she had her chance at revenge, but she chose to go to the light. Offering a chance for her own redemption even if she lost everything in the process.
Totally agree. (Spoilers don’t read comment if haven’t played yet). I thought it was a masterpiece and much stronger than the original (which I would also class as a masterpiece). I purposely avoided all spoilers and I absolutely loved the entire experience. I played the original and the sequel back to back both on hard (looking forward to doing them both on survivor in a few months when it’s less fresh) and it’s just an incredible body of work. I feel sorry for anyone that liked the first game but didn’t enjoy the second. I feel they’ve been cheated by a herd mentality. The sequel has better action, sound, gameplay mechanics and a much longer story. I disagree on the mid switch I actually thought the game was going to end there so for me it was like getting the last of us 2 and 3 plus a dlc (after the farm) all bundled into one. Nobody seems to be acknowledging the length. It’s twice the original. And actually many people (Jeremy Jahns review for one) say it’s a wasted 20 hrs which just gives away the difficulty setting they used. I think a lot of people missed out by not playing it on hard. There was a rush to hear the story but the story is influenced by the gameplay. A hard but fair combat experience makes you appreciate both journeys. And from a story perspective it’s revenge which is just pure hate that consumes anyone who embarks on it. It was a superb tale. Brutal but that’s what a post apocalypse is. I was shocked after I played it to discover all the hate but I’m choosing to focus on the reality. Nothing I’ve heard from any reviewer stands up to scrutiny. The criticisms are weak and I hope it doesn’t impact the developers future choices.
I played the game without any spoilers and I thought it sucked because you play as Abby for more than half the game, I wouldn't have mind playing as Abby for maybe a couple of hours but to try and overshadow Ellie's part in the game is stupid. The entire time I played as Abby I was just going though the motion not enjoying any of it I was literally just waiting to play as Ellie after Evey black screen I was like "am I going to play as Ellie now???!" It wasnt a good experience. I don't get trying to force you to like a character that they literally made you hate by her killing Joel in the first arc of the game. It's sloppy and lazy writing. They're trying to be big brained but in reality they didn't think it though.
@@grumdrum4537 "It's sloppy and lazy writing."
This only happens one time in the game... And that's how Abby finds Joel and Tommy... Besides that the writing is great...
San Blindsnake found the map. She’d have known the comms was there and thats how Ellie had found her friends. I’ll admit it’s a bit easy but I wouldn’t have thought of it as overly sloppy and certainly not lazy. Sometimes they just need to push the narrative forward.
Kevin Yang well I guess everyone can just like different things. I loved playing as Abby she is a fantastic character. I even played the game different with her (less stealth more action). Seeing it from two perspectives was amazing writing for me and I would rate the game as one of my all time favorite gaming experiences. Out of interest what score would you give the game ?
After the game came out someone played it and reviewed it and still called abby trans and i was like did you actually play the game because last time I checked lev is the only trans person in the game, but its not that big of a story point lev is like the 14 year old Ellie of the second game. Surely the most innocent
IT'S A MEME. Look at her, doesn't she look trans? People like to say she is trans becouse she looks like a man
Mr.SmuggyPuss nah i know someone in real life that looks kinda like her and shes not trans shes a body builder so it doesn’t really come across as looking trans to me
Archez ! I don’t know why people care anyway it’s an amazing game bottom line . Who cares if someone is trans or not ?
@@nintendad8168 exactly..!
Why do people even care about this minor lgbtq content displayed in the game, just shows they can't handle that stuff or just look past it, since it's just not a problem, only the peoples problem
@@mr.smuggypuss914 That's pretty silly. I don't think anyone would appreciate it if I said men who aren't muscular look like women
I think the most of harsh review came was caused by false advertising Joel's role in the game.
You mean the gameplay videos with him? LOL
@@sandrobsnake
You mean the gameplay adverts with swapped character models
Harsh reviews came in as people realised the story was shit
So many contrivances and convenience for characters
Nothing realistic as it went on and third arc just was pointless dragging a already complete story
@@gbdeck200 yeah you don't know what half those words mean if you're applying them to this game.
And yet MGS2 did virtually the same thing and didn't get absolutely fucking crucified. Sure some people were mad, but it wasn't "sent a bunch of people on the team death threats" mad.
Amazing interview, I loved it even more than the Kinda Funny or Beyond discussions because I like hearing more of the behind the scenes stuff and what they chose to cut as well as other paths they could go. So interesting to hear that originally they were going to do 5 days each and Ellie would go to the Serophites island.
I really liked the entire game for sure and it’s cool to here these other ideas because for me learning more about the Scars and Isaac would have been cool. I feel like what we got was good enough since the focus was really Ellie and Abby but I would have loved more of this stuff personally and it just shows how monstrous this game was that they chose what things they wanted to keep for the integrity of the story and they made the right calls.
Props to you guys for actually asking great deep questions beyond most stuff we could easily infer on our own 👍🏽
Took me classic 25 hours to finish it, I still had the same feeling of “damn I wish there was more of this” that I get from every great show or film I’ve seen. A story of this size was a hell of a risk, I really appreciate what they did with it
TheFreshTrumpet haha totally the first playthrough on survivor took me 32 hrs and it felt like the appropriate length plus I was proud that I had found all but 30ish collectibles and most of the ones I missed were in Jackson, some of Ellie and mostly Abby Day 1 (when I was more so thrown off by that twist I wasn’t as focused on collecting haha).
I can’t wait for a grounded mode that doesn’t have listen mode. I did not even attempt to use it on my NG+ survivor playthrough but I also had a better idea on how to avoid certain encounters so it took be about 24 hrs to complete.
Played and finished the game. The only critic I had while playing was "Why are they making me play Joel's killer?" But midway though , I was like " Ohh I get it."
Lol, the intention of the story. You're the first person I have seen to say this. Most people say the get it, but still hate the game which proves that they don't get it and don't care
@@ghost245353just because something is explained doesn't make it good
@@andrewjackson5295 you copied that from Angryjoe's review didn't you? lol
@@andrewjackson5295 True, however most people haven't even understood the explanation. You don't have to like Abby, but the last challenge that the game presents is UNDERSTANDING her. The fact that people can't even understand a fictional character scares me for the future, and hell, even the present events. Most people who refuse to wear a mask in the US right now can't even imagine the perspective of the fucking cashier in the grocery story.
This story tells so much more than "revenge bad" like many people claim to understand the game say it's about.
@@squidwrtt5911 what's wrong with his review?
I approve of everything Ben is doing except the swapping out of the GI intro jingle. Bring it back please 😭
Literally the only thing I don't like about the new GI. Everything else I love.
Same the GI intro jingle really put me in a relaxed mood.
37:30 for people who say they can't accept any criticism, check this out, they are specifically not agreeing with those who are being toxic and hateful, they don't have anything with people who didn't like their story. Stop twisting their words.
@@beck2752 I stopped browsing that sub in order to maintain my mental health, at the moment they started to be Hitler apologisers I know they lost it completely.
Just like the saraphites people be acting 😆😆
@@netrunner77 But why you stopped? Is so funny to see all the haters. I recommend you r/gamingcirclejerk, they make fun of everything from that sub.
You guys haven't even been talking with the redditors there. You guys just automatically assume something. I'm from that Reddit. Just beacuse they put up meme's and don't like the game. Dosen't mean we ain't normal people lol. Let's have a civil talk then? I dislike this game. What about you? Did you like it? We have even POSTS about people liking the game NOT being downvoted, definetly questioned but not hated on. But if you DON'T want to hear different opinions about a game head on over to Circlejerk where you guys can circlejerk.
We accutally think it's funny that you guys circle us out as super bad guys. I don't mind it. I don't like the game. It's a meme at this point.
@@Snoken127 bullshit, I had been on that sub since the leaks, back when tranny and agenda were their fav words. I had been called a shill and a simp, I see them calling people who liked the game being brainless and should be ashamed of their tastes, I saw people unironically saying that they sympathise more with Hitler than Abby and that he at least cared for his people when I tried to explain to them that this is wrong I was getting downvoted. It's a sad
circlejerk with people whining and crying because they don't like a game, I want to have a meaningful discussion about TLOU II but I just can't do that with a bunch of kids who yell left and right that 'game bad' 'game trash'.
This is a much better interview than the IGN one. Good questions 👍
Better than Kinda Funny as well, I love hearing the true deep dives like this beyond just what was on the screen and hearing what was intentional versus things we as players just thought were messages like the one Neil brought up with the shaky hand versus not shaky.
Raghu Sharma I used to watch game scoop on ign and they didn’t like last of us and then all said they didn’t play past the first few hours . Right then I stopped listening to ign . Yet they rave about a walking simulator
Raghu Sharma I agree on interview tho it’s much better
@@RajBauer Yeah, the Kinda Funny interviews in particular are really hard to take any sort of consumer stock in. Greg Miller's bias knows no bounds. He was basically sucking Neil off and giving him and the cast very softball questions. And of course, whenever Neil spinned a question into an answer to a question that wasn't even asked, Greg let him.
@@Nelson_Swamp Can you give some examples? E.g. of Neil not answering a question and getting away with it? I thought the reviewer asked a lot of questions fans wanted to be asked, regarding the leaks, motivations behind the characters, themes, and addressing THE scene. The interview seemed mostly about exploring their thought process and how they felt about how things played out. I gained a lot more insight watching it. So I wouldn't say it's worse. It just tackled different objectives.
Bruh, I may never play the Last Of Us games, but i really respect Neil and the passion he has for the stories he wants to tells.
Oh dude you gotta play those games , they are like no other
It's a shame he doesn't care or hear what the fans want and just give him the exact opposite
@@smoker5989 I mean, it's his work. He should be allowed to write whatever story he wants. He's not beholden to your whims.
@@Bornagainvillain yeah but it's the fans who buyed their games, their the ones who are waiting for them and to say he cares about the critics instead of the fans is what a moron would do
@@smoker5989 fans don’t write good games, writers like Neil do. I’m happy to give him and others free reign to write the stories they want to tell, rather than have them constantly having to produce fan service.
this is a fantastic interview. My key takeaway was that ELLIE WAS GOING TO HAVE A DOG. I don't know how I could have coped with that much thrill and fear, due to the fate of dogs in this world.
34:17 I think he's talking about Angry Joe. I agree with Neil tho. Joe went into the game to hate it. The second Joel was killed, he stopped giving a shit. You can see it happen live on his Twitch streams.
I agree Man. This game wasn’t meant for angry joe and that’s totally ok because it’s not for everyone. We have to accept that.
@@Luis-by7li Yup pretty much
The right attitude makes such a huge difference. I noticed streamers who actively adapted and were willing to see the perspective the game was showing and it made a difference in them enjoying the game. People who watched would also enjoy it. Can’t watch when someone is actively being angry for something stupid
I generally like AJ's content but I felt he was off base here. Just watch his spoiler leaks discussion where he straight up says he hates that Joel dies early and doesn't want to play the game anymore. Without proper context, he was ready to hate the game. His live stream playing TLoU2 was full of cracking jokes, talking over cutscenes, and not paying attention. It reminded me of someone who doesn't want to watch a film so they talk through the whole thing and derail the enjoyment of it on purpose.
The context didn’t make it any better my brother watched me play the whole game and still does not wanna touch it if i had to be honest the first one had a more interesting story the second game story was so boring honestly and Joel’s death felt more for shock value
killed first interview, just finished last night, very entertaining to hear insight from the devs
I'm actually glad Neil mentioned toxic TH-camrs as they were the ones crying the most cuz they didn't make the game they wanted. Really shows you how much full of shit they are (except for AJ) and they just jump on the hate wagon.
Really good interview. Thanks a lot.
AJ jumped on the hate too lol when the leaks first came out
He was definitely talking about angry joe lol
Watch the review of Yong yea and upper echellon and come Back to explain me how "toxic" they are.
he’s talking about the quatering youtube channel
@@TheBatman135 No. I am so tired of you saying "hate wagon", tell me why people should like it?
I’m scared of people who’re scared to kill a video game dog but have been killing video game humans forever.
I’m scared of people that aren’t....psychopaths
@@momolikes2moveitmoveit it's a fake dog. Computer coding. If you cant distinguishe that from reailty I think you're closer to a psychopath
Guys... it's just a game. Chill.
@@dazed6511 that's my point lol
@@MERKINTHEMALL I know, it's just crazy how people feel like this game is gonna bring forth the 2nd coming of christ with how "complex" and "divisive" the story is... it's just a game.
Niel Druckman, I hope you are planing Last of Us 3 because you twisted our emotions so sucsesfully, we deserve another drive... I Feel hole in my soul ! I absolutely loved the game especially Abby. I hope this comment reaches you!!
Honestly I would like a Part III still focusing on Ellie. I feel like she has grown as a character by the end of Part II but it still feels like this was only half her story so I want to see where they would take her character in the aftermath of all this madness. I liked Abby too but I think her character arc ended in a satisfying way now that she had her redemption story and found the Fireflies with Lev so I am more curious about which direction they would go with Ellie now.
Saying we deserve sounds so entitled, if we get another game then it’s a gift to be thankful for.
How do people like Abby? 😆 People are so easy to manipulate and fool. Abby brutally, and remorselessly kills Joel, they make us play fetch with her dog and care for two kids as her, and suddenly she’s a good person who, we don’t only like, but love? So ridiculous.
@@miiketookit i personally dont like her at all and despise a lot of what shes done but some ppl might have connected with her. Whether it was avenging her fathers death or trying to protect lev from the cult there are things we can appreciate about those decisions all while not liking her lol
Honestly that last fight I was so worried Ellie would kill her I almost panicked
I thought Abby was gonna kill in the theatre. So did Abby grow on you?
I really wish she had
Lol, I feel you. I dodged all attacks and kept a distance because I didn't want to hurt Abby and didn't want Ellie to die. The ending was spectacular!
Same, I didn't want any of them to die. People saying that Abby not dying made the ending are totally missing the point that it would have brought Ellie nothing more.
I kept dodging bc I felt so bad abby was defenseless and crucified on a hot ass desert beach how can I be mad at her for avenging her fathers killer . She still beat my ass tho 👸🏻
Joel with a girlfriend would have been really sweet. Wish they’d kept that in. :)
Also, I totally agree with Halley at 41:15. A bit more of Joel and Ellie in Jackson would be the top of the cherry. It felt a bit rushed.
I’ve have a feeling they may do an extended cut of this game for re-release on the PS5. I’m probably wrong, but we’ll see.
Brooks Oswald ooh i hope so! because i also think abby’s firefly backstory was not as fleshed out as it could be... they really should’ve shown us what was life like for Abby and her friends (the firefly crew) back in Salt Lake.
Idk tbh, as much as I'd love to watch/play more Joel and Ellie, I think that Joel dying the next morning after their talk in the final cutscene fits the story better. Maybe extend one of the flashbacks? But again some people are already complaining about flashbacks and how they ruin the pacing. I feel like things are better the way they are.
When it comes to Joel's death, you can dislike it, but it absolutely makes sense and wasn't done for shock value. He died in a way that makes sense for this world and fits his character (he's wronged a lot of people and done a lot of terrible things he doesn't deserve a heroes death and this is a more realistic world), he dies because of reasons directly related to the first game, and his death is the driving force behind the entire second game and they never forget him.
No it doesn’t make sense because Joel would have never been caught in that situation it was stupid and unrealistic Neil killed Joel in that way intentionally to build a story line for Abby because they wanted to be controversial
@@inlovewithaghostgirl5940 Fight a horde or skeptically follow a woman they just saved? They didnt, "want to be controversial," they wanted to kill Joel for reasons directly related to the first game and hinge the entire plot of the second game on it.
Damn right
It's insane to think that Joel dying as a direct repercussion of his choices is senseless.
He made his bed and now he must lie in it.
Alexandre so what about everyone one else in the game that did fucked up shit they let live
Payon de you really think Joel and Tommy would have went with her like that did you play the first one ?
Thanks Game Informer and thank you Neil for coming out and having an open discussion about this. The story did not suit me but I do enjoy the combat and hope Naughty Dog learns and continues to evolve from this experience.
Now whether these people where pranksters or not. It is not okay to be sending dumbass threats to the team and especially actors because you did not like what you see. That shows the sign of extremely low intelligence and nothing will change from actions like that for the better.
They always talk about death threats to shift over the attention from how shitty their work is.
@@nicholasnajibi3082 that doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't send people fucking death threats
lol who hurt you?@@nicholasnajibi3082
Great interview Ben! Neil and Halley had tons of interesting things to say and their rapport was adorable! Love these interviews, kno it's not the easiest with the current state of things but would be dope to see more of em' on the podcast.
Neil is 100% correct of this. People ran with false and misleading "leaks" about the game that were not honest or accurate, attempting to create another gamergate, a culture war against anything seen as progressive in a socio-political sense. They were trying to make a case that traditional storytelling in art was under attack from so-called progressives attempting to insert an agenda that was unfavorable to the senses. That sort of online culture is so toxic to the art of gaming and creativity as whole, I cant even begin to illustrate the hill many of these people have chosen to die on with their reactionary attitudes.
Ok cool, but what if I just didn’t like the game for my own reasons? Don’t generalize
@@Steeze9369 You would be a part of a small minority...
@@Steeze9369 what are the reasons?
@@Steeze9369 that's fine.
The leaks weren't false or misleading.
Really good interview. As much as I struggled to connect with the direction of the story of this game its really cool hearing insights into the directors/writers decisions.
been waiting on an interview like this for a while interesting how the process of this game had seen so many reiterations and even more content that was unfortunately cut
This game is getting both too much praise and too much hate and its like both sides are making eachother dig in even deeper into their stances. It is most definitely not a perfect 10/10 GOTY like some of these "critics" claim it to be nor is it POS dumpsterfire like these people who scream "SJW" at the sight of any LGBT or POC characters. It has a lot of legitimate pacing, character and narrative issues and questionable game direction. Gameplay wise, its perfectly adequate. Technical-wise, amazing. I feel that in a few years after the hype and vitriol is out of our social consciousness, people will objectively see this as an 7-8 out of 10 type of game.
Remember when every critic gave Skyward Sword a perfect 10/10? Even during its time it was not that good.
Keep in mind that a reviewers score and how they feel about a game are personal experiences, not facts. There is no 'correct' score for anything. Kyle loves Zelda deeply and really bonded with Skyward Sword even though many people think of that as one of the weakest entries. And Andy had some criticisms to level at LOU2, but felt so moved by the story that he was able to overlook them. I know that sometimes a 10/10 feels like someone is saying the game is perfect, but it is still just representative of how they felt about it. I personally would give LOU2 a 9/10, with points off for pacing and lack of polish in some areas.
@@Jeorin THIS
Careful with the word "objectively". Saying that something is overrated is also an opinion. I PERSONALLY give this game a 10/10 because it gave me a challenge that I couldn't overcome with gameplay. No other game has given me this before. For that, I consider it a work of art that I will remember as one of MY greats. Even if a game isn't perfect, it can still be a masterpiece in your mind. To me and many others, it is.
@@xoreign 100% objectivity is impossible with reviews but hype, anticipation, expectations all affect the current reviews making them very subjective, moreso with these uber-anticipated AAA games with rabid fan bases and lots of money being thrown around for promotion and such. You may like the game just fine but seeing people trash it may make you more adamant in your love and praise for it.
Allowing years for those feelings and thoughts to dissipate will allow for a more objective review for what the product actually delivers regardless of past expecatations. In the end how fun/enjoyable/immersive is the game in of itself, of course every reviewer will always have differing levels of enjoyment but at least they won't be as effected by the climate of when the game is freshly released, which is why I brought up skyward sword as an obvious example. A true objective 10/10 game would still be accessible and enjoyable no matter the era. A Link to the Past is still just as good now, Skyward Sword? Not so much.
@@Jeorin
Id contend that the problem is critics need to focus on the objective rather than the subjective
Respect to Neil and the Naughty Dog team. Keep up the good work.
At least the team don't call homopobhes the people who don't like the game basically Neil think he's a kind of god with a very complex vision to our closed minds
Ending was right . After playing as Abby and feeling her story I didn’t want her to die . Naughty dog 👑 !
Yea that's u, not ellie. Ellie doesn't know abby's story. you are going through both story as a god, not ellie. Which makes it shitty no matter what.
@@kenaw6186 not really, the reason Ellie do not kill Abby at the very end is because of the flashbak of Joel in a positive ligt and not negative. Ellie suffers from PTSD and survivors guilt and that what "forces" he to go after Abby after the farm, so she can get her head sane again. So when se "sees" Joel postitively and not negatively while Abby is under water, she can finally let her hate and PTSD go. Abbys death is no longer needed for Ellie to be at peace. So it really do make sence ;)
Everybody says is a masterpiece of writing, but the f... cliche of "you still have nightmares, until you do the right thing" is boring as hell, and that happens to both Ellie and Abby.
@@luizresende5050 Why don't you write your own ending, let's critique it right here.
Ziq Resende I don’t find anything boring about “your trauma can only be resolved through non-toxic healing” but maybe that’s just me lol
Great interview but goodness it’s constantly interrupted by ads
I appreciated the effort , I saw what you guys did ,
it's not where i wanted the story to go but , cheers
t ... t...tt... to shift it into something more positive , look at those lev/Abby arts . aren't they cute
@@deadly4736 let's hope Freako doesnt touch them 😬
@@deadly4736 nope...
Thank you for asking them the real questions we had as fans. I felt like kinda funny played it safe with their interview
Best game series ever. Made me feel every emotion possible. More than any movie game or show.
Just wanted to say this was incredible, wonderful questions, wonderful answers, maybe the best interview I've seen for this game yet :)
Interesting first interview show for Ben
The interview we needed but do not deserve!
I don't this line makes sense or not but I'm really happy after this interview.
I just cannot believe people . My best friend and I played 2 at same time and we were both blown away . Game is amazing ! Bravo 👏🏼
Glad you liked it
I disagree
What made it amazing for you
I loved the story of the second part so much, I think it is very different from the first part, but thats toally not an issue.
Lovee the game very much, so intense ,disturbing, and exciting at very same time. Completely new experience with extraordinary characters, very enjoyable gameplay and mind-blowing graphics. Masterpiece for me👍🤗🤩👍🤗🤩🤩🤗🤗👍👍
Have you played the first one
I feel just like you. Playing it now for the second time and now after the shock, I have a much better understanding of the game. I love the audacity of Naughty Dog to propose such a game. Masterpiece indeed!
@@duncanb.a.s2886 I am not against your opinion, but is it necessary for me to show Discrete Mathematics on how this video game is too flawed to be a masterpiece? TLOU2 may be good but I am sure as hell it isn't a masterpiece.
@@observ_2008 the first game's actual gameplay was ass, yet people still call that one a masterpiece (which I agree with, btw). TLOU2 IS a masterpiece, I would go so far as to say that it's one of those games that will define an entire generation of video games to come.
@@altheaosborn2648 Control? Outlast? Alien Isolation? Modern Warfare? P.T.? Ghost of Tsushima? Detroit: Become Human?
Have you ever compared to at least ONE of these games original stories since this overwritten and logically broken THING came out? And these are minor mentions. You're missing out inhumanely so, to think that TLOU2 is a godly work. Go shill somewhere else.
Game was amazing 👌 enjoyed getting the platinum trophy. 🏆
Now on to mysterious and wonderful Ghosts of Tsushima the PS4 swansong.
I'm one of the few that really enjoyed the game and it's story. That said I felt Tommy's character didn't make sense at the end. His motivation to hunt the WLF in Seattle makes sense because they killed his brother. It doesn't make sense when he later guilt trips Ellie, basically Joel's daughter, to continue the fight a year or two later after Ellie has settled down and started a family. Not to mention midway in the story where the two met at the theatre, Ellie says they're done and it's not worth continuing the hunt for abby and Tommy accepts that. Tommy even said in the first game that family "changes things" when he refused Joel's request to take Ellie instead of him. I'm not sure how many people would go as far as guilt tripping their nephew in order to avenge their brother's death, especially when it's no surprise Joel would have rather seen Ellie live a normal life. That's one of my only plot criticism and I only bring it up because they talk at around the 10 min mark about "keeping character actions in line with who they are."
In Seattle Tommy was probably in the mindset of taking the kids back to Jackson and deal with Abby himself just like he intended to do in the first place. Of course he had no way of doing that after Abby shot him taking his eyesight and partially paralyzing him. By the time in the farmhouse he has grown bitter and desperate because he could never bring justice for what happened to his brother and probably blamed himself since he was the one who gave away Joel's name. Not to mention Abby also killed Jesse on top of that. This state of mind even destroyed his marriage seemingly making his mental state even worse. Basically just like Ellie, Tommy just couldn't let go and move on. I also don't think Tommy sees Ellie as family as much as Joel did.
I wouldn't say few. From my friends and co-workers, it seems like there are a more people who liked the game than who didn't, it's just that the people who didn't like it are VERY vocal about it.
@@weaverquest I agree. Plus, even if he was in agreement with giving up the revenge at first back in the theater, Abby shooting him in the head most likely made him want her dead even more. Then even when he came back to Jackson, I am pretty sure his troubles with his wife are related to his vengeance quest, so he now sits alone at home, unable to do the things he used to like and all he can do is blame Abby for losing it all, and since he has no one else to guilt trip other than himself, he lashes on Ellie. It's a total jerk move, but it's understandable why.
The haters are a vocal minority. Quite contrary to popular belief, meta critic only accounts for about 5% of the sales of the game. And those are 50/50. the reason why you seem to see so much more “hate” by morons on twitter, is that those who loved the game (again majority) are too busy playing
@@joaniepepin4968 Yeah it felt wrong in the moment because the game suddenly jumps from the theatre version of Tommy to farmhouse that must be 1-2 years later. Only when you think about what Tommy has been through in that time frame that it makes sense.
Ben you're killing it dude! Love that you're a host for GI now!
I have never played a game that made me feel so many emotions before. Especially feeling like I lost Joel in real life. His death was brutal and sometimes life isn’t like a hero’s journey. How can a game make you feel “loss” about a fictional character like that ?! It’s rare. The game broke and tore me apart. I loved it!
Well if you want the same emotions play rdr2
The Duptrooper relax my friend I am talking about the emotions that the game makes you feel. It’s powerful just like when you watch a movie. Don’t take what I wrote out of context. It’s just a game after all.
נתן קורקות i did and I loved that game as well. Easily top 6! to
@The Duptrooper
Everyone goes through real/significant loss at some point. The fact that a game, or anything at all can mimic that experience, is something exceptionally rare, regardless if its good or bad. It didn't come easy, or free. They made you build a big bond through a whole game first, kept him alive subverting zombie tropes, just to realistically kill him at the start here, and then have memories/flashbacks sprinkled throughout, just like real life. There's a structure they figured out to mimicking real life and they sorta broke storytelling ground in doing so. We've all cried and what not for characters before, but never felt like we actually loss someone. I never cried for Joel, but I did feel that loss like nothing I've ever felt before in fiction.
SmoothLegend Great Job with the analysis! I definitely agree with your points. You clarified the emotions that us gamers went through!
I loved TLoU2. Such an ambitious direction to take the story and it completely worked for me. I don't think disliking the game makes you a bad person or is invalid, but I think people who fervently hate the game didn't really pay attention and didn't spend much time thinking about it. But the people who say politics ruined the game can fuck off.
Wow did you even play the first game?
@@inlovewithaghostgirl5940 Yes. I've played through and beaten part one at least 10 times since 2014 when I bought the remastered edition for my PS4. I've loved its characters and story, it really resonated with me like it did so many others. I still can't not cry a little at the prologue. I've been looking forward to Part 2 ever since it was announced back in 2016.
Last of us 2 is such an interesting story. The whole Leak situation, the politically motivated hate and the daring story design these guys and girls put together. Lots of people definitely went into the game already having made up their mind because of the leaks and YES the "political" statements (or what they call it) last of us part 2 makes. Not to forget that a lot of TH-cam personas benefit financially from getting emotional and hateful because it just is more polarizing.
What's kind of weird is that it's really quite apolitical. Unless just having a trans character and strong female character is a political statement. Even Lev is a Scar. The person who wants to be his natural self is hated by the group that considers nature important.
Absolutely, they went into the game willingly to hate it, probably didn't even pay enough attention to the story and dialogue at all
@@Hoopla10
Tokenism is of course political
I'm dying for a part III now. Even if its new characters, I just want more Naught Dog games. Going back to playing anything now feels somewhat dated.
Neil reminds me of Sad Ben Affleck
Very good interview :)
SPOILER ALERT:
In TLOU 3, Lev is immune and when the Fireflies at Catalina want to kill her to make a vaccine, Abbey kills them all.
Damn . Would be interesting
Joel would be right I guess .
Lol:)
This plot idea would make me rather them not have tlou3 at all, if it is just re doing the plot from the first game.
Also, if that's the case, wouldn't Abby rather convince them to go after Ellie, since she knows Ellie is immune? I would not want another game of Abby vs Ellie.
Finally, tlou2 established that Joel Joel already killed all the people who even had a chance of making the vaccine, which gives greater weight to his decision and also, I assume, was established to explain why the fireflies aren't desperately searching for Ellie to this day.
I think they can make a part 3 with Abby and Lev with the fireflies but for these reasons, I don't think this plot would happen. They could also follow a completely new group of people. Tbh, I would caution a part 3 and would rather they make a new IP but if they do make a part 3, I'd trust that they know what to do.
@@Dlord1PlayStation the last of us is about Ellie. So i completely against completely new Characters
Fantastic game, honestly any xeno-phobe who hates this game before even playing it, don't deserve it anyway
Who's a xenophobe? Who's foreign to even hate?
Awesome discussion, thank you. Part I was and still is my favorite game, but Part II exceeded all expectation I had. It's easily the best game of this generation to me thanks to its technical achievements, story, acting, character developments, level design and gameplay. Thank you Naughty Dog for making it.
Alright
Like the game- hell- LOVE the game
But game of the generation?
Come on
Its been a pretty solid generation
@@TOAOM123 Agreed, lots of 10/10s for me and TLOU2 is my favorite of them.
Better not see any death threats
Oh we got the self righteous one over here.
@@MegaTuber86 Advocating against death threats is self-righteous now? Yikes
@@MegaTuber86 bruh
@@MichaelFMalone Yeah that's what I'm doing..... I love the internet lol
Meta dude literally said no death threats and you find a reason to hate on it.
I personally loved the game. Thanks for the interview guys!!
Really enjoyed this interview. Spectacular job!!
34:15 Angry Joe.
And also can be applied to 90 % of the morons complaining about this game...
San Blindsnake that’s a big percentage 🤔
What exactly wasn’t true about the leaks other than abby being trans? Aj knew what he was getting into and the leaks weren’t far off by any means
@@Thug_Nose
Honest question: has it really been confirmed in the game that abby ISNT trans?
Neil: (paraphrasing) They still hate this game, even though the outlines weren't true.
Well even if some of the leaks weren't true, that doesn't change the fact that the game is still a huge disappointment . What a dumb point.
If Joel doesn’t die then wtf would the game be about to some extent . People are crazy keep creating gems 💎
For me, it wasn't the fact that he died as much as it was how he died. He was basically tortured to death, and Ellie was forced to watch get his head caved in.
ShadedOne really ? That just made it feel so much more real and dramatic I loved it . Movies do that kinda stuff and games too . I’ve been watching spines get ripped out from people’s bodies on games so I had no problem with any of the dark tone . I thought 1 and 2 were brilliant
ShadedOne what Joel did even though I would’ve done the same changed the world and some lives like Abbys directly . I think the way they did it was so much more impactful
@@nintendad8168 absolutely . It was important for the story. To get the players' engagement going. You feel like Ellie in that moment. A testament for incredible storytelling
dylan ameziane absolutely I couldn’t agree more
Great interview 👍
loved this!
I hope part 3 wount take 7 years to make, brilliant game
how do you feel about the crunch-culture-related talent bleed? do you understand where it is coming from and how are you going to compensate to make sure company culture still enables the kind of steps you did until here?
I think it's really dishonest and shameful to boil down the discussions around the game to "Oh, the people who hate the game have a hate agenda against transpeople" and that kind of stuff, completely ignoring how a huge part of it all is how apparently the story is written in a very forced and cliched way. A genuine conversation around those criticisms would have been very interesting, instead this is just more of the same deflection we have seen following the game's release. I think this video has been a missed opportunity of addressing more than the, obviously idiotic, hateful and intolerant reasons the game gets negative responses, similarly to your "Debating The Controversial Twists Of The Last Of Us Part II - Spoiled" video where four people kept reiterating how great the game is in every way without talking about any valid criticisms of which there are enough, also from respected outlets and not exclusively sensationalistic or bigotted folks, as it is made to believe here once again. Your whole coverage of the game kind of put a dent in my trust of your judgement of video games and your integrity, starting with the, in my opinion, very shallow review by Andy. Of course I'll still be enjoying all of your content, just with a bit more care and this whole story in mind...
To play devil's advocate; Ben's questioning was directly pointed towards the controversy, and Ben never mentioned any valid criticisms about the game, so the topic of valid criticism never came up. That does not invalidate your criticism though. And Niel also did say those hateful/phobic comments were the minority. It actually does seem like Niel would've been open to a discussion about actual criticism, but we may never find out. Again, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate, I think you have a valid point/argument.
Neil strongly suggested there WERE valid criticisms of the game, also stating directly it was not a game for everyone's tastes. Unfortunately, much of the pre-release backlash came from people determined to dismiss the game as "pro-sjw agenda game", believing false rumors about Abby being trans, Christian's being vilified, etc. Those voices (which were sadly some of the LOUDEST pre-release) clearly were not judging the game on it's merits but rather only being inspired by their own bigotry and hatred.
JamesHLanier this is impossible for some people to accept
@JamesHLanier that criticism always makes me think that people using it know nothing about what cliched or forced mean, or how stories can work in general.
Except he DOES talk about the valid criticisms. Did you not get to the part where he says the game isn't for everyone, and how he knew some people weren't going to like some of the decisions they made with the story?
You guys surprised to see no hate AT ALL in these comments? Don't be. People just hating on the game do not care about these subjects and videos at all, they do not care about what the creators wanted and tried to say.
Neil's idea of respecting Joel's character is making him lose any sort of survival instinct, get beaten to death by a woman with a golf club, and then force the player to play as Joel's killer.
Okay.
@TheLegend 27 He's fucking in charge of patrolling the area around Jackson to protect it from outsiders... that's literally how he gets captured. He's not crocheting a sweater when Abby crushes his skull in.
@@kingxerocole4616 The logbooks show that he and Tommy don't go out too much compared to the younger people, though. And they rarely if ever encounter human foes. One of the reasons he was so quick to trust Abby, too, is that she's not much older than Ellie and was a young girl in obvious distress. Joel also did horrible things during his life, not even considering murdering Abby's father and a good portion of the Fireflies. His reckoning was coming one way or another.
Why does it matter it’s a woman? No one forced you, buddy. Turn the game off if you can’t handle it.
How he was living a good life for 4 years, no one came after him the whole time. He thought he killed all the fireflies and based on the last scene and him getting the coffee, clearly people come in and out of Jackson.
Then while dealing with a horde they come across Abby and work with her to save themselves. Not really time to ask questions of why she’s there. Then she says her friends are staying at a cabin they are aware of and is there only option for a safe haven.
Abby already knows they are Tommy and Joel from the scene earlier. There is literally nothing wrong from a plot standpoint with how it played out, people just can’t handle that Joel died that way and that was the whole fucking point of the game they wanted to make. His death was supposed to devastate us and make us want to kill Abby. It seemed like the game was about revenge until we see the other side of the story and we realize it’s actually showing how the drive for revenge is like an addiction and how it actually ruined both characters life’s by being traumatized by it. Abby’s monster is Joel and killing him doesn’t fix her and instead makes herself a monster to Ellie. It’s literally about the cycle of violence and what it can cause.
Inherently Joel is present throughout the entire game through flashbacks as well as just being on Ellie’s mind.
@@RajBauer 4 years without someone coming after Joel is completely plausible. You think the remaining fireflies gonna pull an army out of their ass and instantly know where he is days after? Jackson is a 3 day walk (without breaks) from Salt lake city. And considering Joel murdered most of the witnesses and they didn't know where he was going this was perfectly believable.
How are people incapable of seeing the difference between criticism and death threats? Fucking sociopaths online, man.
10:30 Well, 90% of the character's decisions felt like they were forced by plot...
THANK YOU!
I dont get why people are ok with contrivance driven plot points
They were
It's so glaring it hurts
It felt like I was playing a telltale game , but I was forced to pick every bad option
It seems clear that Neil would rather make a film or show than a video game. I enjoyed the gameplay of 2 but the story left a lot to be desired.
Perhaps you could reframe this as "it seems clear that Neil is interested in pushing the boundaries of what a video game can be". To me, this is a very special thing, and we are lucky to have such a fellow. Personally, I think it's the best story ever told in a game.
@@georgekaplan1294 lol dude Niel is a good writer but he's not the revolutionary people are saying he is, the overpraising is just as cringy as the hate
@@georgekaplan1294 Dude he didnt. We had had boundary pushing shit since the 90's, this isnt new ground. Im sorry to say but I disagree with you completely.
@@georgekaplan1294 Have you ever heard of "I have no mouth and I must scream"? 95', Now that is boundary pushing game. It handles way darker themes then TLOU 2 and with more maturity and grace. imo anyways.
I disagree he loves making video games and wants tv and movie like quality that can only be experienced with you controlling those actions. This kind of story has been done before with seeing multiple perspectives but how often have you played it and been shook by this type of experience.
Neil is all about telling moving stories and he is clearly good at it with the father/daughter like bond in the first game, the relationships of Drake with Sam, Elena and Sully in Uncharted 4 and now here with Ellie and Abby and their desires for revenge but their real need for redemption. I’m so glad he chose to make video games for his narratives we need more like him that are pushing the boundaries of why video games are just as powerful a medium as books, tv or films.
Its either "YoUu aLrEAdY hatAEDd ThIS gAmE WHen u PLayEd IT" "YOu jUst DIdntH AVE The 500IQ to UndERSTand thE sToRY" or "I hAtE ThIS gAMe cUz REasONs". People, it might be a masterpiece to you, but to a lot of people it isnt. This game isnt a crowd pleaser, and thats fine, but then you shouldnt be afraid of criticism. And I hate the way the game devs are going out of their way to be provocative. Its very annoying. At the very least just realize this game wont jive with most people. Thats fine, you created what you wanted. People didnt like it. WE MOVEEEE ON
OK 12 y.o. kid just go and play fortnite then . you people literally have no excuses or reasons to hate the game and still give so many useless and shitty excuses which are totally untrue and you people just don't accept that yall are butthurt Joel fans and just hatin on the game bcus he died lol really this kinda game aint for you kid you aint gonna understand go fkin play fortnite that's good for u..
Last of us is about Joel and Ellie. So why the FUCK did we play 12 hours as Joel’s killer. Don’t get me wrong I liked the game but I just didn’t give a shit about Abby I wanted to know what happened when Jesse got shot. Her entire story was dragging and they tried to force us to like her and not to mention they DESTROYED Joel and Ellie’s relationship in this game. I like the game 8/10 but I wish it didn’t turn out like this
Killer 221 gtfo of here
@GucciPostss Official I’ll be honest I thought Joel was done already in the first game. I can see why everyone didn’t like it but I enjoyed getting to see someone’s perspective and ended up enjoying the game a lot more once I took myself out of that mindset. Joel and Ellie had their story in the first game, they had some nice flashbacks in this one though.
@@guccipostssofficial Who the fuck said it was all about Joel and Ellie? Its about the darkness of humanity. Yep Game of thrones is all about Ed Stark, The Godfather is all about Don Corleone because they are on the cover? Nope they die and the rest of the characters move on. Joel "destroyed" their relationship by saving Ellie and lying to her about it (which was in the first game), they are just showing the aftermath of that in this game. And if you actually played the game all the way through you would know they ended up salvaging their relationship in the last scene of the game.
Spoiler question ahead:
Someone murders your “father” and you go on a quest for revenge to kill the person who killed him. Am I taking about Ellie or Abby?
For anyone who criticizes this game, answer that question first and foremost.
Abby's quest for vengeance was authentic.
Ellie's quest was not.
For Abby it was a quest that was more genuine, authentic and warranted compared to Ellie's because Abby as a Firefly was dedicated to finding a cure and she had a genuine support and affection for her father since he was *the* person to accomplish what the Fireflies wanted. It hits closer to home for Abby. After she finished with her quest for vengeance, like Owen she decided to go back to *look for the light* and thus her story afterwards is about redeeming her humanist side which is why she ends up with Lev and Lev is why Abby spared Ellie.
In Ellie's case, remember that Ellie sincerely believed she was to die with Riley but instead reality said *F--- you* by making Ellie immune. Marlene comes to Ellie with the promise of a potential cure, thus giving Ellie a purpose bigger than herself whether or not making a vaccine would've killed Ellie (she was already in survival's guilt after Riley's death). Joel's actions at the hospital was another, and severe, *F--- you* to Ellie leaving her deeper in guilt and now an existential crisis.
It's the reason why Ellie had no problem killing anyone who got in her way of finding Joel's murderers, yet when she finds out through Nora who Abby and Abby's friends were it leaves Ellie conflicted, warping her mind with her love/hatred for Joel clashing in her head, Ellie's questioning the authenticity of this quest for vengeance in tribute to Joel. Abby and her friends were part of the faction from the same hospital that were supposed to have given Ellie's life meaning. It's why we see that flashback after Ellie's nervous breakdown from torturing Nora, why Ellie was sloppy in interrogating Mel and Owen compared to Tommy and Joel's interrogation methods, and arguably why Ellie spared Abby at the end.
This game is a masterpiece.
NxBad the two responses I’ve gotten so far basically sum up the reactions to this game. Knee-jerk, blind hatred versus thoughtful empathy towards someone else’s point of view.
By the way, the answer wasn’t Abby. It was Ellie. I put “father” in quotation marks.
@@GH0STZERO
Not a masterpiece
Even accepting your love for the story there are far too many mechanical and design flaws to warrant the "masterpiece" accolade
MSNTHRP abbie’s was more authentic? ............. No. Not sure if you played the first game, but Joel wasn’t even given a choice whether to allow them to kill Ellie for a (possible) cure. They didn’t even get Ellie’s consent. Instead, they acted extremely hostile toward Joel which essentially made him lose even more trust in them. Additionally, what makes everyone so sure that a cure, or a vaccine, would’ve even worked, been developed, and even been distributed to as many people as would be needed in order to undo the virus’ impact on the world? Then, when Joel tries to go and get Ellie the doctor pulls a knife out on him and says, “I won’t let you take her.” How messed up is that? This is all not even considering yet the fact that Joel has already lost a daughter. Why would he lose another daughter (figure) to people and to a (uncertain) goal that hasn’t even earned his trust yet? Now, for Abbie? What is her authentic cause? Without knowing all of the circumstances of which I just stated, she unreasonably and dumbly views Joel as some devil-like, hitler-like figure who screwed over humanity by killing her father (which, we know isn’t the case due to everything I previously stated). Then, she travels all the way to where Joel is and AFTER HE SAVES HER LIFE she shoots him in the knee and very slowly beats him to death with a golf club. Right in front of his screaming daughter figure. So, you’re going to tell me Abbie’s quest for revenge is more authentic and reasonable than Ellie’s? 😆 no.
Amazing insights from this interview
29:52 Feedback to the criticism
I believe it's okay to share your negative opinion about any game or movie. All art is subjective and everyone is going to have a different opinion on the content. But it's not okay when sharing that opinion to include death threats and hate speech. There should be a global law against word usage like that which can't possibly be taken out of context. Anyone who uses words like that should at the very least get a heavy fine forcing them to pay their local authorities based on their IP address or something creative like that. Or maybe pay the platform used at the time like TH-cam, Facebook, twitter, or whatever website is being used. I think the Internet would be a better place if that's how it operated. A much more civil communication tool
I sort of agree. The death threats should be taken seriously, but the hateful rants on the other hand should really be taken seriously but handled differently.
I get that it will be a long time banning and blocking out mobs messaging you bullshit. I am sure there is a report button that gets these hateful idiots suspended or banned.
Law enforcement should only be involved for threats. Any threats. The stupid harassment from mobs is the job of the user and the platform to deal with.
This shit will not end but there should be repercussions for threats and harassment.
I disagree. Death Threats should be taken seriously, but legally going after people for what they say is a violation of their constitutional rights. Very Lefty, Very SJW.
Damn so in your world you get to decide what is hate speech and what isn’t how very totalitarian of you I’m glad your not in charge
@@Bornagainvillain legal rights with freedom of speech doesn't mean people have the right to make death threats without repercussions. The moment you make a death threat you become guilty of murderous intent. It's not left or right, it's constitutional law. Any lawyer will tell you
@@zipzeolocke2 which is why I said that death threats should be taken seriously, as it's already illegal. What shouldn't happen is restrictions on what people can say as that can lead to tyranny.
Great Game, really well spent 30 hours. Already starting 2nd on Survivor+, SO HARD.
I did that too. It was crazy difficult sometimes .
Reading this whilst playing Grounded+ and raising my eyebrows and expelling 0.27lbs of air from my nostrils
Neil said that he made a rule of cutting or changing anything that did not fit the character, but why did Joel let his guard down so much, why didn't Ellie care about Shimmer at all, who kills vita girl and leaves the vita on the floor?
Man is so great to hear neil speaking out about all the lies some youtubers spread about the game, it’s so easy to misinform nowadays
What lies?
TOAOM123 that abby is trans, that anita sarkeesian had anything to do with the developing of the game, that ellie died
I would encourage proud and witty cynic, Ben Yahtzee to watch these and recognize the heart in this project.
Im glad I bought the game and played it myself taking my time with the game just reading all the notes Ellie's journal and just soaking in the environment the world of The last of us part 2 and it's characters. I even bought a PS4 pro just to play The last of us part 2 then a week after buying a PS4 pro The last of Us part two was leaked then people began to talk about how the game is trash I was so close to not buying the game but in the end I did buy it and it is my favorite game I love it excellent job Naughty Dog and thank you
Suggestion:
What if we STARTED the game as young Abby? Okay, hear me out:
We start at the '4 Years ago' point and we spend time with this new mysterious young character and explore her relationship with her father BUT we never reveal that it's 4 years ago (more on that later). We spend time with her and her community among the Fireflies - which we assume are remnants of the Fireflies given the chronology of the story - until, while Abby is away, she discovers her father has been killed (but we don't know how or why).
We cut to the beginning of Ellie's story and continue as normal up until Joel's death BUT we don't see who actually kills Joel and thus the main thrust of Ellie's story is not just revenge but it's a mystery of her trying to track down who killed her "father", all the while we cut between Ellie and Abby's stories (not yet revealing their connection). Abby and Ellie are both tracking down who killed their 'fathers' as perhaps some other mysteries take place. This gives us more time with these characters and perhaps, with us not yet knowing quite who Abby is, we may actually begin to like her character. We don't reveal that Abby's events were '4 years ago' until we get to the Joel moment. Abby's early sections were in the past, while Ellie's - some more content of her hunting around and protecting Jackson too perhaps - was in the present.
At the halfway mark we reveal almost side by side, Joel killing Abby's father, as she kills Joel. Revealing the connection between their two stories. We were playing Abby as she was looking for Joel and THAT is the twist in the middle. Then, rather than spending 3 days in Seattle as Ellie and then 3 as Abby, we cut between their days.
1. Seattle Day 1: Ellie
2. Seattle Day 1: Abby
3. Seattle Day 2: Ellie
4. Seattle Day 2: Abby
etc. etc.
Then, the events of the story take place as normal (perhaps with more Joel content/flashbacks), with Abby exploring the war between two civilizations trying to define their own version of Order in Chaos and Ellie trying to hunt down whoever killed Joel among this same conflict. Finally, at the very end, you actually give the player more choice - you know, like a video game, rather than a movie - and they get to affect the ending based on how they felt about the events of the story as they unfolded.
We should also have been shown more directly how Joel's actions impacted events and caused things to become far worse. Perhaps we see evidence that the rate of infection is increasing and resources and personnel are being overwhelmed on all sides and they state categorically, that all of this could have been prevented had Abby's father not been killed and Ellie taken away from them. Perhaps characters we grow to love over the course of this story, die as a direct result of Joel's actions, thus complicating our view of Joel despite our connection to him from the first game.
We as a player would choose whether or not we should kill Abby, giving the moment ultimately more depth. Hopefully, if the story is approached correctly, players would be split down the middle in who chose what path. They should have gotten us to understand and like Abby BEFORE she killed Joel, not after, that's why I think it didn't work for many players.
Then, TLOUS: Part 3, would be impacted by whatever choice you made in Part 2.
Perhaps then Part 3, would be all about understanding why Ellie is immune and perhaps exploring themes of motherhood and renewing our connection with the natural world, rather than the themes previously explored.
Anyway, the game and the story are still phenomenal, this was just how I felt after finishing it and seeing the reactions of others. That's the beauty of art once it is shared though, we all get our own interpretations.
YEAH, The game would have been an ACTUAL good game
This game is not just about telling a story, its about making you feel the story. I think you need to hate Abby as much as Ellie does at the start to understand and struggle with her actions like she does all the way through. As you see her flashbacks you start to see there's other things going on with her anger and grief over Joels actions and lies and the breakdown of her relationship with him which is also effecting her choices. If you put it in any other order that shows sympathy or understanding for Abby before the showdown you dilute the experience you get playing as Ellie. We need to see the story as she sees it. Abby's story is more straightforward. She's gotten her revenge and she's still having the bad dreams about her dad. It's her starting to re-evaluate her life. Her flashbacks are her thinking over the cost she's paid to get revenge, particularly with her relationship to Owen. She starts to take off her blinkers and see things the WLF are doing wrong. Something Owen has already seen. It's about her finding something else to live for other than revenge. She finds it with Lev and when given the choice to go back to revenge, at the point of no return, choses Lev. I started Abby's section just wanting to get back to the Theatre though I was interested to see what else had been happening over the 3 days as Ellie had obviously arrived in the middle of something. By the end I was dreading returning to the Theatre as I didn't want anyone else to die. I don't think any other story order would have made me feel that way.
No no need for Abby to be played at all on this game or be on this story. How difficult was for Naughty Dog to realize that people only care about Ellie and Joel and that TLOU story should just be about their struggles, their love and survival. But no, they had to be so smart and progressive, so they overthink the story and ended up just fucking up the original characters and with it the franchise. Moral of the story is, if something is not broken and you have 2 of the most beloved characters in one of the greatest video games ever don't mess with it, just keep to their story and show us how they continue their lives in this horrible world, do not complicate things. Less is more keep It simple stupid. Neil druckman even says that his inspiration for doing TLOU2 was to try and take on the challenge of doing something greater than the first game simular to what The Godfather Part II achieved. Well, the Godfather Part II kept the story on the Corleone family they didn't introduce a random character out of nowhere and made it the main character Neil should had taken that approach for TLOU2. Fans of the Godfather saga only care about the Corleone family and fans of the TLOU only care about Joel and Ellie they should've kept it that way.
The last time I saw a comment section as polarised as this one was back during the 2016 presidential election lmao
It's not too bad. The blind hate is dying down as those people move onto new things to be fake outraged about. Maybe we can even have a discussion about some of the games flaws in a civilized manner soon!
Jeorin LIKE THE LAST JEDI!... oh wait
@@Jeorin Agreed. I am seeing some good opinions from those that do/don't enjoy it.
Jeorin the game is good except for the terrible story line
@@Jeorin exactly
If we get a Part 3, it needs to show all of Joel's past leading up to Part 1. A prequel basically, 20 years is a lot to cover, could make a game of same length to show us everything Joel went through
That would be a very boring story. But I guess people would like it more because JOEL. I LOVE JOEL SO MUCH SUCH A GREAT GUY
@@Waddehaddeduddedaa I disagree, seeing how dark Joel got during his Hunter days would be so great to see, how Tommy joined the fireflies, and we could even see when Ellie was born and find out what happened to her parents and who they were. There's so much we know nothing about because they only briefly mention some things
I mean that would be cool but tbh the highlight of the first game was Ellie she brought light to the story always had something funny to say and the whole trip to seattle was for Ellie because shes immune. I loved the ellie and joel dynamic and maybe thats why joels death it so hard with so many people. Its good she didn’t kill abby joel just wanted her to live as normal of a life you can in a world like this and be happy. I think learning about Ellie’s mom would be cool like what happened to her how did she survive while being pregnant was she alone, they could really do anything from the part 2 ending
@@RouVie2001 there's so much that we have no idea about during those 20 years, they couldn't have described that much activity through a brief dozen sentences of dialogue. Personally I wasn't a fan of the reasoning for "Joel wouldn't have wanted you to kill Abby" because if the tables were flipped and Ellie died, Joel would relentlessly kill everyone in his path. Would've been a much darker game knowing he's been a hunter in the past
Part 2 absolutely had some great moments but to me I really disliked the structure of the story. It just didn't work for me, if we had the time to learn about Abby and her backstory all before she did what she did to Joel, it would've made for a much healthier discussion in the community because the people that experienced the game (without seeing the leaks) would have been more open minded
41:15 YUUUP! Totally agree.... Also would've been good to see joel and tommy before they met ellie... That would've been a great sequel... TLOU 2 story should've been the Third game...
I feel you man..
I was very disappointed in the game but I do like this interview. You asked insightful questions and dared to ask some uncomfortable ones too. Well done!
I'll wait patiently for part 3
I want it now
miss the old intro music, but really glad you’re making this your own. excited to see what you do with this. also, great interview
Yes! Special Edition Game Informer Shows are BACK
These two games will stand the test of time.
Good interview, and good job Naughty Dog the game was amazing IMO
I disagree but really glad you got something out of it 👍
This was good, great job guys!
I love this game so much
Me too!
Neil also said he had less the half of control over the story which I think is a lie to save his ass, but if it's true then do some dlc for alternative scenes.
Cool! And the toxicity from the haters ain't needed here, you can just not watch the video 👍
Ok I won't, brown-noser.
Shieftain fkn got eem
Haha thats assuming the gaming community isn't made up of alot of socially inept uncreative low lifes
@@edgarohito4662 AKA the fanboys
It's not toxic to give criticism. How soft are you? To the point that criticism is toxisity?
I like how skewed the camera angles are here. Neil looks so small compared to Halley.
All those people hurling threats and insults at the devs should be ousted and shunned. Over a video game... pathetic
Honestly, it comes from their personal issues, a person with a mature and clear mind would never even go that way
Youre legitimately asking for a form of retribution which contradicts the themes of the game....
The issue with Joel having a “realistic”death and not a heroes death, is that characters define a story and if the main characters die realistically and early on then you don’t really have a satisfying story. There are plenty of instances in real life where people died realistically and unceremoniously, but those stories would not be something you would want to experience in a game. It’s important to have a balance between realism and fantasy so that the viewer is entertained and not just depressed for the sake of REALISM. Not saying Joel shouldn’t die but not within the very beginning of the game. The relationship between him and Ellie is the soul of the game. I think it’s lazy to think that the only way to add weight or gravitas to the game is to kill him off so Ellie can seek revenge.
Should of been last of us 3, this game feels like it’s missing something in the middle. The second game should of focused on Ellie and Joel imo.
That was the focus of the first one tho?
I think part 2 will set up part 3!
[Deleted] exactly. Hell ,even part 2 still deals with Joel and Ellie. Joel and Ellie in this game were different and I think people still wanted her to act like she’s 14 and like his actions wouldn’t have changed their behavior towards each other.
@@Handonforehead That's the issue, many players just wanted a repeat of a Joel/Ellie adventure devoid of addressing any of the lingering ramifications of the first game. To think that Joel/Ellie could quickly get over him lying to her, stripping her of her agency, dooming many to death (due to stopping a vaccine) is just denial. I've met people in life who have fallen out for years over the most stupid/childish of things and yet we are expected that they would reconcile so easy? What those fans wanted is not true to the world of The Last of Us.
@@AlanHoey86 There is a good 4 years or so between the first and second games. I'm not sure if they gave an exact timeline for when Ellie discovers Joel's lie, but I think it's fairly early on given the state of her arm tattoo/scar. It would be potentially interesting to do a prequel style game or even DLC that covers some of those missing years, though.
Im watching a commercials and them an interview with Druckman interupt... seriously wtf?
i dunno I thought it was pretty good.
definitely not a 10/10 tho
Thank u Naughty dog for this amazing game and for including all types of people. Dont stop. TLOU2 is my favourite game on playstation.
Part 1 is better
Yeah; the second one is fine though.
@@julianorozaa second part is decent not the best
@@IOICYRA yep
I had a really bad time playing part 1 and enjoyed the second far more. Mostly my issue with part 1 is that the combat sequences dragged on for far too long, which is also one of the reasons why I didn't care as much for the Santa Barbara portion of part 2. I spent too much time dying because I would get overwhelmed in part 1, well that and getting shot through walls or around corners by the broken AI.
I think this game is one of the most misunderstood games ever. To me it was a game that says hate less love more. A lesson this world needs so badly. I was actually feeling bad during the game and by the ending I was numb. I had to pull away and think it over. Thanks for the message Naughty Dog!
Nah I think most people understand the intent
Just feel it was poorly represented
Hell: red dead 2 covers the same thematic narratives but in a far more cogent manner
Nah it's rightfully hated
Contrivances and story pacing issues
Every character wasted, not just by dying but by plot convenient actions that largely feel OOC for them
One can understand the game but it doesn't make it good
it is, most of the haters are braindead
Nothing has disappointed me more than this game
Ok
This, it is a bad game