Damn... well said. I hope that guy doesn't mind if I steal his/her words. It could be applied to the last jedi, terminator dark fate, bat woman, ghostbusters 2016, dr. who, star trek picard just to name a few.
True that’s why you do as much of the work yourself until you drive yourself into the ground. And if you truly do need to hire someone for something contracts can be your best friend.
@@butterballporkbunthetoymak agreed, just look at Dust: an Alyssian Tail. That game was made almost entirely by one guy (except for the music, and the voice acting).
Pretty sure most of team knew this would be a disaster, but they were too busy being crunched to deliver those assets in time they just didn´t care. "The story is garbage? Not my problem, I was paid to make skin texture assets and what they gonna do with those is noone of my business."
I mean yeah that probs should have been worded better because context does matter It happens to be the case that, the context made everything fucking worse
Context absolutely matters. The context is "You brutally killed a beloved character for no discernable reason." And given that context, I'm not sure what they were expecting.
@@ClokworkGremlin actually the context is "You brutally killed a beloved character for no discernible reason in a manner that doesn't even make any fucking sense" but you know
Yeah. Context matters. Druckmann didn't give it good context. But I understand why he said it. The entire context wouldn't stop people from disliking what she did. Context can help, but not the context provided by Druckmann there.
@@dreliq981 If you honor is low Micah will shoot Arthur in the head if Arthur decides to help John, or will kill Arthur with the knife to the back if Arthur decides to go for the money. If your honor is high Arthur will exhaust himself during the fight with Micah and will succumb to the TB, or if he goes for the money back to the camp he will be stabbed in the back by Micah and slowly bleed to death but before that slash Micah's eye with his hand. Arthur dies by either Micah or by Micah combined with TB.
The character didn't ""die." He was murdered slowly in a gruesome way in front of another equally loved character. Big difference and he knows it. So disingenuous in almost everything he's said about this game.
The way he's murdered refelects the tone in which the game starts, the fact that is gruesome enhances the desire to go in search for revenge and the motives ellie has.
@@Trefox87 maybe they should've made the story about forgiveness and you could've even made a whole thing where ellie has to forgive joel for what he did
Trash THAT is a good idea. The story should have revolved around her hatred of his choice and feeling conflicted about his raising her. I think a revenge story culminating in her ultimately forgiving him would have been great. It could then be the motivation for her not killing the person who killed him. They’d have to rewrite Abby, though.
@@Trash-ramen or even better, make Abby forget Joel for what he did, if this is a story about "revenge is bad" then use just one revenge journey not two mixed in a stupid way
It's almost like the advertisers knew no one would like it and did everyone in their power to hide it until enough people had already bought it that they could just deny refund and make a profit.
@@metazoxan2 That's not necessarily the case. Technically they did this in the trailer for the first game too with a fake out for having to choose Joel's fate as Ellie, but they didn't lie about who the story would be about and that game was competently made so it didn't matter.
I just hope ,in an alternate universe Bruce Straley was involved , It woulda been much better , do you know Neil was gonna have Tess kill joel , Oh don't be angry let me give you some context ...........
@@DeutscherPatrick yeah there was a whole video of him talking about how he got the idea for the first game, what it was supposed to be, how he fought for his idea, and what he wanted to do with it and changed it beacuse he knew it wasn't right for the story(the whole Tess trying to kill Joel and ellie)
I think that he is a good writer, imagine being able to create idiotic characters who proceed to do stupid shit, like Lev stealing a boat and going alone to a place where everyone wants to kill him 🤦♀️
TheLegend 27 He doesn't sound upset at all, honestly. Unless you count using caps lock for emphasis as being "upset". Congrats on using the same tired response of "Actually, you're the one who's upset!", though. That hasn't been overused to death at all.
@TheLegend 27 Well, he is trying to cons us, so it makes sense the con man isn't that mad that people are mad at his con. What confuses me is why would he admit it now? Everyone called him out on it and now he is complaining the everyone calling him out it, even though he wanted that reaction, I guess he wasn't expecting people to see through it.
JMBoote1 i answered him then realized that i was just repeating you verbatim. Now i will just add that certain types of people just don’t understand how comedy works.
Allenrich88 not this way.. 99 times out of a hundred movies just put things in different orders, which is what naughty dog could’ve done but they completely swapped Jesse with Joel to false advertise. Wtf is good about that, if they just rearranged the order with Joel’s dialog over certain scenes they could’ve pulled it off and gained some respect from their fans, while not reducing any hype.
@@Everythingsleeps Have you? Movies don't make it seem like the protagonist will be this one character and then completely replace him when the real thing comes out
I originally envisioned for this story to end where Ellie sleeps with Dina inside Eugene's hideout and then several weeks later they were discovered by Joel, Tommy & Jesse waking them both at the same time!
How many of those are return copies after the players finished it and hate it, there are few stores that have so many used copies of the last of us 2 that they are not accepting anymore returns on it just because it sold 4 million doesn't mean it's good to take a look at the last Jedi it made money but it was a shitty movie and that there are a lot of people who bought the game because of the name they were too by Naughty Dog and Neil
Right? Like, all evidence points to Druckmann literally trying to catfish people using TLOU’s goodwill into buying this mess. Literal false advertising that people are actually out here defending. It’s insane
Abby: Kills all the people close to ellie and also her only father figure and beloved character, also bites off two of her fingers Ellie at the end: Understandable have a great day
Omar Ibarra stupid comment- Ellie killed more people than Abby. Abby let Ellie live twice but Ellie could not enjoy a peaceful life with Dinah because she was still full of shit
@@peterpunk5049 Do you know what PTSD is? Probably not to be saying such a stupid comment, at least Ellie felt some emotion after she did the things she did, did you ever see Abby feeling emotionally shaken after either killing Joel or her whole group to save 2? the only thing full of shit here is you.
“The Fireflys were trying to bring back order” blows up a security checkpoint that was making sure infected people aren’t entering one of the last few places left on Earth that aren’t infected
Cuckman forgets literally that the Fireflies devolved into a counter military faction that carried more about fighting the the new order after the US collapsed more than finding a cure.
Joel was supposed to only get her out of the city for his payment. Nobody was there and he wasn't paid. He delivered her to the Fireflies and got smashed in the face with the end of a gun and held prisoner. I guess that didn't really put him in a good mood. Then he finds out they're going to kill Ellie, probably doesn't put him in a good mood either. All in all, the end of the last game worked fine and the Fireflies were not being reasonable at all. They knew if they had a cure it would make them very powerful and/or rich.
@@6581punk EXACTLEY!! Nobody mentions this and then the cure wasn't 100% either. They were willing to kill a little girl for a 50/50 chance that they MIGHT get a cure. He never mentions this.
Neil Druckmann: we're going to make the fans hate this game The fans: we hate this game Neil Druckmann: stop hating our game that we wanted you to hate, you bigots
In his defense, planning people to get angry and getting death threats are two different things. You want players to be angry AT THE GAME, not the devs (.... unless you make a free to play game that requires $60 to enter, then you can hate the devs). Is like, if you make a sad game, you dont want people to off themselves.
@@icarue993 the whole thing about the death threats were extremely exaggerated. It was an extreme minority of people who would've actually meant any sort of threat, but Naughty Dog were clutching at straws defending the game. ND made some very questionable choices, and when it was too late to do anything to fix things they just flat out lied about the game's content and resorted to bait and switch.
@@rockys201 What I mean is more, yes they want people angry, but direct it towards Abby, not the devs. Even if there were not death threats. Not defending TLOU2, because I never played it. Just saying it as a fellow game dev (that enjoys telling tragic stories).
@@icarue993 well sure, but it was the devs that made the creative choices. Nobody ever deserves death threats for any reason, let alone a game, but they should've known from the start that the choices they went with would not go down well with most of the fanbase. It also inflamed the situation when Neil Druckmann posted on social media that the fans who didn't like the story were homophobes and bigots. Just from a business standpoint that's obviously not a good way to talk to your fans
@@rockys201 Ok fair. Then thats the dev himself actively insulting the fanbase. I sometimes wish they were more honest with their intentions, something like: We killed Joel to let Elli shine, and we did it in that way so that you feel anger towards (Buff blonde). We could have handle things better. Or something. I tend to show my cards to my players and they tend to react positively and offer positive feedback. I feel game devs would have a more positive reaction if they were to be more humble and explain things (but PR probably wont let them tbh)
@@Yes_Fantasy_419 Jesus, TDS so strong with you, lol. Living rent free in your head, got his name as your title, and you promoting censorship. What flavor was that whole pitcher of kool-aid? Whatever flavor, bet it was salty.
Isn't false advertising against the law? I mean we have Druckmann saying specifically that they set out to make misleading or false claims. Just how the hell is this legal?
It would probably require a class action, and those are always a huge pain in the ass. Plus even if you win, after Naughty Dog drags their feet for months and months you'll probably spend more money than you win in any kind of decision. I think all we can do is tell everyone to stop buying things from this scumbags. Maybe he'll quit the industry.
There is precedent that you don't have to be honest in a trailer. Especially for preserving twists. There are tons of movies that have trailers with footage not in the movie.
To be honest i thought the story would have Dina getting killed and Ellie got mad and go for revenge with Joel helping him just like how they showed in the trailer.
Kronos just like Avengers and countless others do false advertising so they can give you trailers without giving away the story because then people complain that they just watched the story in a trailer
Robert Aguirre Here’s the difference between what Marvel did, and what Naughty Dog did. Marvel didn’t make it look like a character was going to play a major role in the story, but not actually having that in the movie.
Nope , he just ruined peoples experience with prejudice 🙃i played it , and i really understood why shit what happens there happend , i like abby as character and her story is really good , i bow to all the guys who worked on this masterpiece 😊
@@KingFloch88 😅😅i actually meant it , but we re all different . No need to be rude. However i think that leaks in general are not a good thing , if i was developing something and such major leaks were to be ...well... leaked , i d be really frustrated. Neil himself told us it was worst day of his life.
In my case, I didn't see any of the leaks, so went in blind. The part that actually annoyed me to no end is when the game veered off a cliffhanger confrontation to tell Abby's side of the story. The best way I can describe this is if during the Empire Strikes Back, before you get the Darth Vader fight, you have to witness the entire prequel trilogy happening first.
And that's the case with me I didn't see the leaks so I went in blind as well. If I woulda known all the stuff I know now I wouldn't have even bothered buying the game.
Same. I came in blind too. Had zero knowledge of anything about the game. I felt more rushed playing Abby just to get to the part where she faces Ellie. Her story didn't make sense to me and her character was a little inconsistent. Shes referenced to be the best scar killer, yet goes out of her way to the hospital to help Yara, as well as the Island to get Lev back. That whole subplot was just weird and off putting. It was irrelevant to the actual main storyline. It felt more like a useless side mission than anything. They could've incorporated the Scars much better into the main story that impacts both Ellie and Abby. Like, both of them getting caught or something.
@@TheGreatAyRAB the worse part about what you are saying is that they used yara and lev to try and show that abby has suddenly changed and grown as a person. Like yea i killed joel, and 2 months later im a completely different person. Her large amount of growth across 2 days of in game story just doesn't make any sense at all.
Lol well put, they jump too much around and its jarring at times! Im still so baffled they didnt look one game back and go "Oh wait, we did that shit already... Oh actually this is cool, lets scrap abby and do cross-countryside infection learning type shit"
Kratos too learned that his revenge was useless and almost destroyed the world, hell he even killed himself after that. And imagine comparing Kratos to a kid...stupid.
I mean Neil actually created the focus of The Last Of Us back in school and it was basically a failed movie project that he pitched to Naughty Dog and got a game made. I’m not saying Bruce Straley didn’t do anything, because ever since he left, the game after, wasnt good. But Neil did a lot of work on TLOU because it was a passion project with an and had a lot of thought put into it, now Neil cares about making money off of nostalgia and showing his views on feminism.
@@callmepsycho3132 How is there "showing views of feminism"? All I see is a game with a shitty narrative. Just because he quoted sarcancer a YEARS ago deosnt mean he is some beta male SJW.
@@Bad_At_Parties Uncharted has always faced the same problem as tlou. And people have always overlooked it. Drake kills hundreds of npcs and suddenly hesitates to kill the main villain. Thats the exact problem Ellie faced too. But now since the villain actually KILLED a character we cared about we hate druckman and ND suddenly. Accept it, ND was always overrated af.
This man literally admitted to, "switching characters/skins and making fake cutscenes" so... yeah... if you like this game.. I don't know what else to say man but enjoy being lied to.
I almost laughed when she had that flashback of Joel at the end, because I can guarantee you Joel would've killed Abby right there without a second thought, so I've no idea why his memory would stop Ellie from doing the same
@@charlierunkle19 Joel was kind of a piece of shit actually. Killed anyone who got in his way without a second thought. No real regard for human life beyond his immediate circle of family and friends. He killed people without remorse, without hesitation. Joel definitely got what was coming to him.
They write Ellie's mind sick. She didn't got the revenge she needed, now what she is gonna do with this space in her. I think only explanation is she became sick she couldn't handle it and became sick. People saying cycle shit but if there is a cycle then why all npc's dont get revenge. I remembered gow4 Kratos saying cycle ends here and kills the guy (I cant remember). Gow4's ending was convincing.
@@RolaiEckolo all Joel killed were hunters and people who attacked him first And the fireflies tried to forcefully operate on a girl for a vaccine that they might not even have been able to make Lol the fireflies got what was coming to them and fuck abie she is a shitty attempt at forcing a character to be crammed in a game and liked (No hate against the actor she did a good job)
That's.. exactly why. Joel had changed. I'm not sure if you understand how humans work, but they're not constant, not even consistent most of the time. Ellie realized at the end that revenge didn't matter. It was forgiveness.
You are doing something wrong if you go out of your way to make a divisive game that will piss of most of it’s fans to appeal to what? 1% of twitter losers instead of pleasing your core audience aka fans.
I dont say it's perfect, but does every story has to please fans? Fan service isn't something that's good. Writing is art so that was his vision. We can only rate it but he definitely didn't do it WRONG.
@@k1eu It's a video game, not art. They market it in a specific way and expect gamers who liked the first one to buy the second one too. It's just dishonest and idiotic
Didn't The Last Jedi do something similar? They had purple hair lady seem stupid and uncaring the whole movie and then try to characterize her well after the audience already hates her. What is with that? Why can't these people just stick to a basic understanding of storytelling and get us to like a character BEFORE introducing conflict? They all think they're these great artists who are ready to do new and unusual things with storytelling when they really just don't have the skill to pull it off.
They expand Holdo's character greatly in external materials, not that that matters. Apparently she was supposed to have been a lifelong friend of Leia's, appearing to be a replacement for Winter. The sequels rely far too much on books and comics to seal plot holes and flaws in the movies.
When the part came where Druckmann talked about 'ignorant' fans or well, former fans/players I thought to myself, what a stupid, ignorant bastard that guy actually is. And the actors that played Joel and Ellie, I don't know what's going on with them..
A few months ago before the leaks, Troy Baker did try to warn the fan to have an open mind on his twitter I said Neil saw it flip out Troy got flack for saying it so Neil pressured Troy to do the video back in May after the leaks begging fans to buy the game what I notice Troy didn't look to thrill defending the game and he looks nervous and he was fidgeting all over the place and we need to remember Ashely and Troy are still under contract with Naughty Dog if they have spoken negatively of the game in this live stream Neil would have a cow he would go crying to Sony to blacklist Ashley and Troy from working in the video game.
People need to remeber that contracts do keep them from saying anything, you cannot hate them for following that, they aren't going to ruin their careers and lives. That's why we really have to take it seriously when an actor says something like "People are reaaally gonna need to have an open mind."
You know if he wanted a story with a message of stopping the cycle of vengeance what if instead of killing Joel, Abby was forced to work with him and in the end forgives him because she learns that everyone including herself is flawed? Not enough beloved characters dying for you Neil? Ah guess you don't like good writing either so no surprise there
Pretty much, he think that if there is no chock value, then there is no value at all... who needs a well written story when you put sadistic violence and sex scenes right ?
Neil been hating the joel character since the beginning of this last of us journey in the first game he written tess as the bad guy cuts joel hand and torture him and ellie was supposed to kill her tess I'm starting to see a similarity here guys neil never liked joel ever
I laughed badly when druckmann said that abby’s story is a redemption story. Yes, it looks like a redemption story but it doesn’t feel anything like a redemption story. If you want your audience to truly sympathize with your character’s redemption story, then there should atleast be a midpoint in her story where she starts showing remorse and regretting her actions and then questioning her own morality which ultimately the game’s story never had time for developing as it’s so focused on developing a revenge story unfolding into another revenge story and etc. Instead she kills more and more and never feels remorse, while Ellie continuously does as she always gave her victims a chance until she gets forced into killing them. Regardless, Ellie loses everything and Abby lives on, not even getting haunted by her friends’ deaths.
She didn’t want to fight ellie at the end, so that (pretty badly) shows she forgives ellie for murdering her friends and wants to squash the beef , she only fought ellie because ellie forced her to by threatening to kill lev
HOLY FUCK DID YOU EVEN PLAY THE GAME? SO what do you call her saving lev and yara? What do you call her saying she needed this? How do you call the fact that she loses everything including her friends? How about the fact that she spared ellies and dina's life? Or when she didn't wanted to fight ellie at the end? It is a redemption story but ur just too stupid to see it.
@@LincolnClay98 Lou2 is the worst game ever its trying so hard to be dark it makes it trash and i love dark games dont get me f*cked up but this games story makes no sense ! I never hated a game so much the minute Joel died by that guy girl whatever Naughty Dogs lost a huge fan !
Remember when Owen said “if we kill her, we are no better than the rest of them” when they were about to kill Ellie after killing Joel? Ellie became a living example. Not saying Abby was a good person cause she was shitty. But everybody was shitty too. Ellie became that at the end and realized she stuck in the past and couldn’t move on. Thats the reason why Joel died. He couldn’t move on from his daughter. Abby couldn’t move on from her dad. Ellie couldn’t move on from Joel’s lie and his death. Once Ellie was actually happy, she threw it away because she still stuck in the past.
Dude I was like WTF DO YOU EXPECT when you kill off a beloved character in such a horrific way and are then forced to play as his killer for almost half the game to try to "understand and empathise" with her 🤦♀️😠
I didn’t watch any of the leaks and avoided them to give the game the benefit of the doubt. But now that I’ve played it, I’m disappointed and won’t be doing a second playthrough
The exact same thing happened with Rian, why do you make a movie/game with the mission statement of making it as divisive as possible AND then complain that some people really didn't like it Where you expecting praise for the fact you made it divisive?
@@highlander6573yeah. I mean if they know players will hate it, why do it?.. maybe the development is already done and they just went for it.. I mean, I don't know..
We will be okay JOEL DYING. We can move on. We might look for Vengeance if he was murdered. Or accept it if he got grabbed by clickkers. But then... ABBY. You choose the abby story line. You fucked up... What we hate is that we had to play as the one who fucking killed him. That's a big fuck you on our face.
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 if they did a big chunk of the game about Abby and develop her motivations and personality BEFORE she killed Joel. It would have been better, and Ellie should've killed her
Yeah it's actually astonishing just how bad the story / writing is, and how blind Neil is to that. Makes me think Bruce Straley developed most of the original
Just got the Rateing I guess? I don't understand why that was in there anyway. I didn't play the game but form everything I heard and hear. I still have no understanding of that scene.
The game from walkthrough was wey to lesbians, so they probably thinking like lets put this gay sex scene inside and make sure that people know that Abby is a man.
@Reconsider your position That's a good explanation. But even so, I still don't like this scene. It fits more to 18+ game and it's too odd for a violent game about fighting with zombies. It would look better in games like Outlast, where there's more of sexual content, to be honest. I doubt teenagers are able to understand the meaning of this scene properly. Not to mention, this scene is just uncomfortable to watch, it's more like rape than making love.
Its like Game of Thrones all over again. "You people are just angry that your favourite character died! Get over it!" No.. its not about that at all. I don't care that Joel dies - but the way it was written and executed is beyond terrible.
@@argetit yeah they meet in the mountain out of nowwhere saving abby ex machina moment, tell them their name, where are they from, trusting stranger. Yeah it's perfect! i love it
@@reslaega6134 "ex machina" you just forget that she followed his tracks and she was literally next to his patrol point (so it's undersatndable that he found her). If you complain about things like this here why don't we complain about tlou 1 too? When bill shows up just in time to save joel? Or when marlene shows up just when joel and tess needed a firefly?
@@reslaega6134 u mean joel's stupidity? Well if he is in the middle of a blizzard, with a horde following him and the only safe place is a house full of strangers is the only option i would go too, wouldn't you? They knew the area well, staying there was 100% death, so they had no choice. Also there is no problem in telling their names to an alone woman (not a hunter, the only thing they worried about) in order to gain trust. Also one of the patrol's objectives was helping strangers, so it was very common by that time. So yeah, pretty justified
For me the worse thing wasn’t killing off Joel early on, it was making us play as the woman who killed Joel. It just felt wrong, and yes, they tried to make us like Abby by having her turn into a ‘nice and caring’ character but it didn’t work for me. And then to control Abby in a fight AGAINST Ellie felt completely wrong. I naturally let Ellie kill me on the first play through. First time I ever played a video game controlling someone I wanted to die in a fight!
Oh bro, I totally feel you!!! That's exactly what happened to me! I let myself killed by Ellie the first time coz' I love her and I don't give a shit about Abby...
For me the worst part is the Abbys god damn father not taking 15 minutes to talk to Ellie and Joel prior to the surgery. They knockout Joel, put Ellie under anesthesia, and begin the life ending surgery. Like... that’s the story?? The girls “mother figure” Marlene couldn’t talk to Ellie about it first?? Makes 0 sense, massive plot hole imo that goes not only unexplained in the sequel but also gets emphasized when you see the stupid flashback with Abbys dad before the surgery.
Honestly I’ve thought about ways the game could’ve been better and I think we can all agree this game should’ve been about the deterioration of Joel and Ellie’s relationship as the first one is the build up of it, and we see this because she learns he lies and then they have to work together again say to avenge someone like Dina or someone close to Ellie to make her get revenge (as semi teased in the initial teaser with her playing guitar in the house) and then as they go on this journey build that relationship back up and right when it gets to a better point maybe Joel dies for Ellie or for revenge or something that has meaning. All the while Ellie reflects on say the flashbacks in the game showing off that person close to her and Joel being apart of it
The "rape a child then explain why" analogy is ironic, because a lot of people complained about the show "13 Reasons Why" attempting to humanize Brent after spending two seasons making him the worst person ever. He and Abby were kind of built the same too.
@@_soups JSG didn't mention it in his video, so assuming he has no interest in the show (which is the right amount of interest) its ironic that his made up analogy has actually occurred and no one liked it, which adds to the irony because the same crowd that liked Abby's bullshit would hate Brent.
I got raped and abused when I was a child. It was an ugly side of a human nature and I forgave the person. I don’t find the need to use such analogy in any given scenario. I don’t know how to explain any further and I wish I have more of a valid point when I say this.
So why the fuck are you talking? Look at you talking shit about a game you never played. You didn't even tried to understand the story, qute sad. I dont blame you if you didn't like the story, i blame you if you didn't even try.
They literally had to rewrite the past in order to make this game: the entire plot is caused in response to Abby killing Joel because he killed her father, who was the doctor operating on Ellie in the first game, except you can clearly see in the first game that the doctor is black, so he couldn't have been Abby's dad.
Yes and the "cassette tape" Ellie finds which suddenly makes that doctor THE ONLY DOCTOR WHO COULD HAVE CURED THIS DISEASE! I mean like really? Is this a make believe game of 6 years olds? "Even if there is a cure, the person to make that possible is already gone...*sob sob*". Nowhere in the entire game was that fucking doctor mentioned ONCE. No body even speaks one line like the head doctor of the firefly unit is a very well know doctor etc. Nothing!
@@theWardennn And it's wasted because we watch the flashbacks in this game to find that this humanity-saving doctor..... is a veterinarian. Not a neurosurgeon or an immunologist or even a mycologist, who could understand the human brain, diseases and immunity, or fungi respectively. People are relying on a dude that delivered a zebra baby? They deserve what they had coming.
@@narutousamaki4133 She's not adopted, they just whitewashed the doctor and made him Caucasian when he used to be African-American. They also made him 20 years younger and gave him different color scrubs in his flashback when his scrubs were more green in the first game.
@@theWardennn I know it's a game but you can't make a "cure" for fungus. The only way to permanently cure it would be to find something that kills it on cell level. We could discuss that Joel did the right thing saving Ellie since if they would have killed her only to discover that it doesn't work.
And Macbeth was talking about the bleak, hopeless nature of life; something this game encapsulates beautifully. You may have made a great point by mistake.
@@joshuamacgregor "Beautifully"? How can nihilism and pessimism be captured "Beautifully", if something means nothing then it can't be done badly. Macbeth is a tragedy about power, the only tragedy of TLOU2 is talented artists wasted 7 years of their life rendering it. This idea its good because its bleak reminds me of poeple defending the narrative on the grounds of 'realism', we can die at anytime so instant character deaths are logical; ignoring the obvious the plot armor of Ellie and Abby it still doesn't make it worthwhile writing. I could animate a guy drowning in the mud for 8 hours alone, its happened before in our history, I could render it photo realistically but does it enrich or add meaning to anyone's day? No. It'll make you feel bad for a while but getting an emotional response isn't an achievement, pornography does it. The biggest complaint about the game isn't the death of Joel, that writing choice is merely symptomatic of its biggest flaw; the journey the lacked meaning. It wastes a lot of our time with nothing of value in exchange.
The issue is Druckman expected everyone to see Abby and Elie as the same, and her killing Joel the same as Joel killing her father. But it doesn't work. It doesn't work because the Fireflies were going to kill Ellie to attempt a vaccine, Jerry (Abby's father) threatened to kill Joel if he came any closer when he tried to save Ellie, so Jerry is already willing to kill Ellie and threatening Joel, making what Joel did an act of defense. There is no reason to have sympathy for the Fireflies or Jerry's behavior. Abby however is just pursuing a vendetta for her father's death, which Jerry brought entirely on himself. There is no conflating Joel's defensive actions to Abby's fully premeditated stalking and murdering of Joel. Her and her father never stop being the villains in this equation, so there was never going to be a reason for any player to sympathize with Abby. Its not equivalent and never will be. Joel and Ellie did what they did in defense of themselves. Abby is just a cold blooded killer, like her father. Following causation and whose responsible for the issue it all stems from, points directly to the bad actions of the Fireflies and Jerry to begin with, without any vagueness or moral greyness. Their aggression is the catalyst for all of this, and Abby killed a man who only defended himself and his daughter from her father. Ellie is the only one with a reasonable claim for justice against Abby for Joel's death. Abby is the villain.
As I recall, in the clip he only gave his first name yes? And she knew last name right off the bat? IF she had no real way to know his last name, how many Joels did she mercilessly kill before getting the right one? She decide to just kill every Joel to be sure?
Tommylee Canning come on guys i dont like the direction either but i see this dumb comment way too often. They def knew it was a joel with his brother tommy at a settlement in jackson, which is why they were there. How big are the chances that there’s another set of brother named tommy and joel in jackson.. and if you replay the game you can tell by abby’s face when tommy introduces himself and joel during the chase that she’s sort of unsettled with big eyes and kinda anxious when she hears his name. So yeah it’s just 2+2
Honestly, Joel dying isn't the worst thing about this game. It's the fact that they killed him too early. It's the way that they killed him and it's the fact that they make you spend half the game playing as Abby who imo, is one of the most bland, boring and unlikeable protagonists in the history of video games. I slogged through the Abby parts to get to the end and judging by the feedback, I was not in the minority there. Most people did not like playing as Abby and most people thought she was boring, bland and uninteresting as fuck.
Yeah, the way he died was disrespectful. If only they gave us a chance to play as Abby first to care for her. Then we find out that Joel killed her father and now has to face Joel and Ellie. Man, that would've fucking broken me emotionally. Detroit Become Human did this really well with 3 main characters' story, and how we get to play their stories chronologically.
He gets it, what YOU dont get is that that doesn't matter. The way joel dies is perfect to the story, now that is symbolizes abby's conviction and the reason it was so lifechanging for ellie and a result losing everything in seek of revenge. Btw, i don't really think you understood the story
@@velasbloc6762 Joel suddenly giving his name out to complete strangers and acting out of character is good for the story? We perfectly understand the reasoning behind killing off Joel in the context of the story. That doesn't mean the execution is any good.
@@achair7958 Honestly there is no correct way to kill the character and create the intended message in the process. Yeah you could say that he would have never fallen for that, but at the same time you could say that hes older now, and been living in a safe community for over 4 years where they get new people all the time. See? I think people dislike the fact that he dies period and in a way blames it on the way he died rather than the fact that he died. I feel like with any other execution, the result would have been the same and we would be having this same conversation.
you don't kill Ellie thou.. you are forced to fight her but no matter the outcome, she will live and the same cutscene will always play out after you're done fighting her..
@@garysamuel9497 There are a lot of games that hit those same marks or come close to them, but unfortunately most aren't story driven games. And if they are, they all pass this shitshow by a huge margin.
Well i have to say i liked abby's story better and at the end the game made me (kind of)hate ellie and tommy well ellie in this game she was real dumb if you look at the first game
@@johngreen8921 That's an insult to all beta males. They have morals and they can think critically. I feel like I just admitted something I wouldn't try to irl.
Thats exactly the point, they wanted to show a real world with no heroes, this is a post apocalyptic world where people die like shit, and Joel especially is not a heroe bc of all he did in the past and the game shows that everything you do has consequences
@@sdfvhiej what does it matter? The fans have respected and loved Joel for as long as the last of us has been around. And Joel just has to go like THAT? Tell me, if you made a fictional character that (for example) your fans loved so much, how would you treat their death? By killing them off for no conventional reason? By shitting on their entire legacy AND their own main character's entire legacy? No. You treat their death with respect. That's how you do a main character's death (ESPECIALLY JOEL'S) right. Is it cliche? Sure, whatever. But will it make things better? Of course it will! Neil Druckmann is the most delusional person I've encountered since TLoU 2 came out. And you're just as delusional if you agree with his terms.
@@V1R90 You do realize that Joel isn't a good person right ?A complex and interesting character yes but not a good person.He did more damage to the world than anybody in TLOU world could have done.You may counter this by saying that "fireflies are not competent and there was no cure and even if there was they wouldn't use it for good" but that's the information you have as the player.Joel didn't know this,he didn't care about it.The scene when he tells the truth to Ellie ,he's like "making a vaccine would've killed you.I stopped them".He doesn't care if there is a cure.He doesn't even consider it.You threaten Ellie,you die.That's how he sees it.He's not a good person.He didn't die a heroic death,cause he doesn't deserve it really.If the second game was about his redemption maybe,but at the start of the second game,he doesn't seem to be any different if Ellie is involved in a situation.In the final flashback he mentions the fact that he would've done it all over again even if he was given a second chance.
Joel didn’t need a heroic death. This isn’t uncharted. One thing i actually like about this game is how everyone dies so quickly just like that. No comprises. I like that, it’s like real life people don’t get a heroic death because when you’re shot you fucking die lmao. There are so many things to criticize this game about besides Joel’s death. Bad pacing, bad dialogue, bland characters, those elements make this game bad, NOT one character’s death.
Neil lies, Naughty Dog dies. And although I don't like doing this, it'd be my only relevant qualifications to Neil: I'm an LGBTQIA+ woman of color and I *_HATE_* TLOU2. So he can't misattribute hatred for his trashfire game.
while i don't care about the LGBTQIA+ group i agree calling people homophobes for not liking a game with someone in the LGBTQIA+ group in it. is dumb, that's like saying your racist for not liking gta san addrease, edit: i don't like LGBTQIA+ as a group cause it focuses on sexuality on individual level i don't mind but as a group it just seems creepy kinda like straight people making their own group that just sounds weird
(LGBT) QIA? Don't want to seem rude, but what does that mean and when did the extra letters get added? Genuinely curious, as I only ever heard/knew it as just LGBT.
He took a seven year old game, made a sequel to kill a beloved character, and have people play Abby (Joel’s killer) more into the game, not making any excuse as to WHY are we playing Abby. He needs to get fired for this kind of crap.
YOU SHOULDN'T NEED AN EXCUSE. So narrow minded, i can see the moment joel died you totally rejected the story on it's entirety. The point was to show the different perspectives of conflict and the cycle of violence. Turns out your "beloved character" caused way more harm than that that he recieved. I feel like im talking to a little child, idk why.
im pissed seeing his name at the start of uncharted 3 and 4. but thats back when they had that great female writer they had to fire right? and thats not cool. firing a female writer? cause she was good ? its like you people wnat to fail!
I want Neil to get help for his trauma, low sales to be the deterrent to keeping Neil on the team, and the companies involved justly punished for their false advertising. The pervasiveness of it all it just astounding and I'd be a bit disgusted if there weren't documents being written up now. Best case scenario is he gets help and, if able, later contributes to a story that truly honors The Last of Us and the fans of the series. Abby could be a great character, just not like this.
I think the worst part about this is how they are going to take the hatred from the fans and hold it like a medal. They're proud of this and see our anger as a form of self centered validation used to prove some sort of self serving point about their shallow views on humanity. It's a smug "I told you so".
@@mychem20 that’s one reason. Is that a bad reason by itself? What’s wrong with enjoying a game because it’s essentially unmatched on a technical level
Actually I wouldn't be surprised because Arthur's motto was "revenge is a fool's game " and John respecting that but yep shooting micah in his fucking face was respecting Arthur too ,the marstons way I guess
Lol yea that actually what Arthur wanted for John all along. Before he died he said revenge is a fool’s game & him killing Micah lead to the events of the original RDR
how does he not understand how people are pissed. like imagine playing ac2 and playing as the guy who killed ezios family, like who in the hell would want to play that game
The word fan is derived from fanatic. The few isolated cranks and weirdos notwithstanding, you can't get people emotionally invested in a franchise and its characters and then intentionally ruin them and NOT get hated for it. If amateur TH-camrs can come up with a better plot off the tops of their heads, then maybe an indie company can get their hands on a PS4 development kit, make their own fan-made sequel and sell it themselves, copyrights be damned. I know I'd buy a copy.
*Neil:* I will then use your own hand to punch you repeatedly. _[play as Abby for 10 excruciating hours]_ *Neil:* Why are you still mad? Didn't you notice the perspective change?
You see Micah Bell is supposed to be an hated character, Rockstar did an perfect job for people making hate him. Naughty Dog wants you to like Abby, yet people really hate her and just an poor written character.Also I like how people make an entire death compilation of just Abby.
I don't think that way actually. I find them equally ''guilty'' even though I love them. Did neither they warn nor say their minds when they first read the script? Did neither of them said ''Hey Neil, I respect what you're trying to do but I don't think this is a way to do it.'' Seriously, how could they be so ''fine'' with this? I've been all over their twitter accounts and neither of them speaking their minds WHILE clearly, they should be not okay with the outcome since they are the key reasons what made TLOU beyond great. I'm so disappointed man.
@@BerkayKokcu well if they did, im pretty sure the reply was "im not here cater to you. I write fast and think sjw. So pretty fucking please. With sugar on top. Read the fucking lines."
The thing is, Abby brutally killed a man going on name alone. None of them new what Tommy and Joel looked like, and especially didn't know both Tommys, AND Joels name. There's just too many plotholes. The trailers the past three years made it seem that Dina would be the one Ellie revenged for, and they even intentionally edited trailers to show Joel in scenes where he wasn't inside the second, along with dialogue (Neil admitted this)
I expected Joel to die, just not in this way, not by making a stupid decision. That's poor character development. Don't make your character make a stupid decision to drive the plot, a decision they never would have made before.
Worse is how it went against his entire character. Joel was always cautious. He was always careful. Yet he trusts random strangers in this game? Even if he got a little soft living with Tommy, it doesnt change the fact that cautious is an integral part of his character. He would never trust anyone he just met.
I never expected Joel to live through the game, but to die in the first two hours and then be forced to play has his killer. so you can build empathy for her, what. you blew your load already there is no way you are going to redeem this character in my eyes, if you played has Abby and built up a connection with her ok then maybe I could accept her killing Joel Maybe. Toss in ND and their misleading advertisement you have a game I have no interest in playing better luck next time.
You mean like how he trusted Henry? Then trusted him again after he left Joel to die? He had his moments where he dropped his guard. Henry could’ve killed them both when Sam turned and he didn’t see that coming. You guys act like you know Joel’s character so well yet you don’t account certain moments. But I do agree that it felt rushed and us having to play Abby. But I didn’t have a problem playing as Abby until you had to fight Ellie. That was what pissed me off.
@@MikeyG671 Except he didnt. He nearly killed Henry in their first encounter if Sam didnt reveal himself. Second time when he found Henry again he wanted to kill him. He trusted them only out of necessity, but was still cautious. Joel wouldnt enter a building where strangers were and he was outnumbered.
You also forget that Joel has been in Jackson for a few years now and has let his guard down, probably assuming the fireflies arent coming after him. And they were pinned in the lodge with a hoard of zombies attacking and no where to go except the mansion where abbys friends were. Stop picking stupid things to be upset with the game. It was a great game.
If we’re expected to buy that bs about Ellie coming around in the end and not killing Abby because she has a moment of clarity, then how come that didn’t extend to Abby’s journey? We can gather that Abby has had a long time to reflect on her revenge and the death of her father. When she finally finds Joel he even saves her from certain death. Where’s Abby’s realization? How come she doesn’t realize that “revenge bad hurrrrr”? Just sloppy lazy writing. The game only plays by its own morals when it’s convenient to do so.
Because her revenge was against a white dude. It's totally different. (Druckmann is a fanatic Anita Sarkeesian supporter, btw. Might explain some things.)
I'll try and explain how I see it. Abby's revenge was a long time coming. When her father dies four years prior I believe she wants only one thing : kill Joel. As time goes on, she's out of leads and slowly started accepting that she may never get her revenge but then a new lead pops up and she tells Owen "it's a lead, I gotta go through it" or something. She follows the lead with all her friends that also lost something because of Joel, they reach Jackson easily and find Joel really fast. That's it, the revenge she wanted for years was there with nothing to stop her, when would she realize vengeance isn't the way? On the opposite side, you have Ellie who also wants her revenge real bad and to achieve it, see how many people died on either side. Even when Ellie killed Nora and Mel, she started feeling like all that violence and destruction maybe isn't worth it. At first, she probably thought she should finish what she started. (On a side note, all the characters that were with Abby when she killed Joel tells her at some point in the game how traumatized they were about how violent Joel's death was, even if they resented him they still felt "guilty" about how they've done it). Oncce she reaches Abby at the end, with the boats, she's up against an Abby that is just the shadow of what she was, her hair got cut, she appears way slimer because it's been months since she's been captured and when Ellie finds her she was tied to a pole. She was far from being the monster she was when she killed Joel even in Ellie's eyes. At first Abby only wanted to leave with Lev, she didn't even want a fight despite telling her the last time they met, she didn't want to see Ellie ever again, yet when she appears out of nowhere, she wants nothing to do with Ellie. TL;DR : Abby's revenge was straight forward and easy, she didn't have any moment to realize what the spiral of revenge does and how many people would die just for one head. Ellie on the other hand saw all of that, she had to make Nora talk by making her breathe spores and then brutally finished her, she killed a pregnant woman aswell, even though those people were part of the revenge, she didn't feel good about any of it. When she faces Abby, one last time, she's not even the Abby that killed Joel, she doesn't seem like the coldblooded, thirsty for blood psycho bitch she was. She lost just as much as Ellie at that point and she decides to end the spiral there by letting her go. That's how I see it.
"i won't kill u for revenge anymore, but in the same time i won't save u as well" - ellie should have left abby to die hanging on the pole and walked off disappeared into the horizon. this shoulld be a good ending.
Don't you remember when Abby finds Ellie literally right after she killed Alice, Mel and Owen yeah the love of her life and spared her and Dina? That's when she realized she had to stop. Remember what she said when Ellie cut the rope off? She said i won't do this. I Won't fight you. She only did because Ellie put a knife on Lev's throat.
Subverting expectations is a trend that leads to bad writing, it's a now over used practice that needs to end. Unfortunately too many critics fawn over it, so show makers and game devs will do that, at the cost of good writing and satisfying payoffs, to get good reviews. Obviously though the more this happens the less people will trust reviews, and increasingly it will lead to poor sales.
It is just following in the footsteps of modern art. Create aesthetically disgusting crap, because the "artist" has no real talent, and demand that everyone say it is great because it is not like those stodgy paintings or sculptures done by skilled masters.
subverting expectations is neither a good or bad thing, but a ton of writers seem to have come to the conclusion that it is purely a good thing. You can subvert expectations, but their needs to be something satisfying afterwards and it needs to make sense.
When people pull stuff like this - they do something for a META reason, something entirely external to the game, and then they retcon things refit the world to service their shitty new narrative, what you can see now is that they never liked the character, they never understood the character, they never loved the character. All he was doing was rubbing his hands together at being able to USE a character for his meta-consideration-politics and personal headcanon - all he wanted was the horrible payoff. I don't know, Druckmann's logic doesn't seem to mean much in his puttering on about the story - because Abby is so completely, casually cruel - the relish she takes and how much she has immersed herself in violence. What a nasty human being.
She comes from the mind of a nasty human being who, more than once, has had murderous thoughts of people (including children) because of violence he saw on tv in the news. Instead of checking himself into therapy he inflicts his trauma on unknowing, paying customers and nonchalantly admits that he was inspired by dolphin abuse or a lynching.
the game is about perspective.. i BALLED when Joel died, but its not like he was a Great person or anything. ppl die out of nowhere in the world of The Last Of Us. I wouldnt want joel to have a heros death...... bc hes not a hero
@@rileycockrell9293 I've never heard anything more true, I was also sad when Joel died but he was a very selfish character who didn't want to save the world because he didn't want to let one person die.
Riley Cockrell they pulled a story out of their ass to kill Joel but I could accept that, if he didn’t die in the first 2 hours in the shittiest way, can’t interact with it, Abby didn’t even earn the damn kill. And the ending would’ve been far better if it I ended with the Ellie and Abby fight and everything got resolved there
@@rainphantom7024 ok. I respect that.and I do think the order of events is off. But I think that's the main issue. She didn't "earn" the kill, it was for revenge. But I think the ending was great. It shows that many of the decisions she made we're bad ones and she understands that at the end.
I'm convinced that these psychopathic writers don't understand humans. Whatever the characters feel, we feel because of empathy. When horrible things happen to characters we care about, it's almost like it's being done to us as well. That's why so many people hated Joel's death. We saw it as the developers giving a massive middle finger to the audience for shock value and had the nerve to not deliver a satisfying ending to justify it. Subverting expectations can work, but it has to be satisfying. When you're essentially lighting a franchise on fire, don't be surprised when the fans want to watch you burn to ashes as well.
@@laidbacklaw Empathy isn't given to everyone equally. I can feel bad for her and still hate her because of her actions at the same time. It's not mutually exclusive. Horrible people tend to be broken people.
@@laidbacklaw I can't talk about empathy if I can't feel what Abby felt? Get over yourself. You don't have the right to say who can and can't talk about empathy. You're not some kind of moral authority figure so don't act like it.
Neil Druckmann was obviously trying to copy the game of thrones Red Wedding by killing Joel. The thing he forgot to realize is we had seasons and books of getting to know those characters before they were brutally killed off for seemingly no reason and even than the moment had narrative standing. Ever since that God damn episode dropped in 2013 and set the internet on fire. I can't tell you how many people try to copy it in film, tv and books. It's honestly pathetic.
@@leogtt1627 no but George did make main characters dying unexpectedly meta. In anime, tv and video games the hero never dies. He did change that by showing anyone can die.
Quill Clock Rian Johnson is a director, best known for his work on Looper or more recently, the shitfest that was The Last Jedi. He deliberately wrote and created a bad film to divide the audience of his movie into two. Kathleen Kennedy is the head of Lucasfilm atm, she was handpicked by Lucas to protect his legacy before he sold everything to Disney. She has a weird and strange obsession with shoving her feminist agenda into Star Wars.
I wouldn't insult Kennedy like that. The problem with kk is that she let RJ do what he wanted. Both KK and JJA were the main producers and didn't think about truly preparing a trilogy.
A lot of time has passed since the game came out. And I've had alot of time to think about this game as a whole. As many have said before, and better, *"it's not that he died, we knew he would. It's a staple of being a father figure in an apocalypse. But, it's how he died. The timing of it. The impact it was meant to have versus how we received it."* Druckmann owns the narrative so he can do whatever he wants with it. But the problem is that this game doesn't feel like a journey, it feels like a punishment. It feels like every story beat in the game is actively trying to punish us for even playing it. We're getting beat with a lesson that's been done many times over, and better. List of quick-fire issues: 1. The returning characters are out-of-character for most of the story. The way they are seen here is a far-cry from how they were portrayed in the first game. 2. Joel's death wasn't given any respect. Heck, he didn't need to have final words before death. He just needed to be given the proper setup, and payoff. But in this game there's no setup OR payoff. *"He dies because killing is bad, and revenge is worse."* 3. The new characters in Abby's arc I didn't care about. One of them is pregnant, and goes into combat like a brainlet, the other is a womaniser cheating on his partner [who is pregnant by the way, yes, the same one], another one is a man with no other personality traits other than "sleeps around, asshole, and speaks spanish." Overall, I just didn' care...-- and yet the game wants you to! Crazy. 4. We play as someone that we have no reason to want to, and yet *it's so obvious that Abby's very first flashback onward is just a giant pity post to justify killing Joel.* It's so obvious and manipulative that it's terrible.
I feel like they should have had us play as Joel saving Abby as opposed to Abby running from the infected. They give us the tutorial with him and Tommy getting stuck in the coming storm, and suddenly they see a young girl who needed saving. Sneak in some dialogue how she was looking for someone, whatever. Maybe stretch out the segment with gettin' to the mansion. It would be more shocking then for the player because we would be 'behind the wheel' of playing as Joel, and it would be taken away by them getting revenge on him.
"This game doesn't feel like a journey, it feels like a punishment." You hit the nail on the head with that one. It's like the only way you can win is to not play it, and I'm sure that's not good for a video game.
The first game opens with Joel losing his adorable daughter and it's fucking shocking and it's what sets the entire atmosphere for the rest of the game, I felt the same with Joel dying in TLOU 2, it's that anger with the calm walking and talking that implodes the game into an immersive experience, it happened to me in both games the same way. Part 2 had some annoying parts like when you're forced to torture Nora and when you're forced to beat undead Abby in the end. Also the secondary characters were very good in their roles
@@cyberscapegaming but with that point of view ur confessing u wanted a fanservice story, and thats not how this works. Its like saying "why would u see a sad movie or a scary movie? you will cry and get scared, those movies are pointless" This game is not here to please the players, it makes u feel a bunch of emotions during the journey, the game prioritizes reflection over satisfaction.
I actually struggled to finish this game. I literally got bored about 10 hours in because there really wasn’t any excitement to the story to drive me. Until they theater, which actually caught my interest, I was really thinking about giving up. I only finished the game so that I wouldn’t feel like I completely wasted $60. I finished the story...... It had some moments, but I’ll probably never play it again.
I kinda wanna play again in new game plus just for the Ellie parts, they were a lot of fun. But yeah you’re right when you reach Abby’s part the gameplay becomes so damn boring.
I’ve been messing with grounded and it’s pretty hard. You can also do funny settings like one hit melee kills, infinite ammo etc. I wasn’t a fan of the story either.
I quit 30 mins into the Abby part after I googled how long you play as her and it said 10 hours and I was like no I don’t give a fuck about this bitch I’m watching the ending on TH-cam
@@Mypenisissmallbut I hear ya. I don’t blame you. I just needed to finish it just I didn’t feel like I wasted my money anymore than I already did. She did have some cool set pieces, but I still hated her character
John Marston: *kills 50 people to get to Micah* Micah: "Hello, Scarface. You here to kill me?" John: "No, I forgive you because revenge and violence is wrong." Wait. That's not what happened because Rockstar knows what they're doing.
Except you forgot to mention in this hypothetical scenario that along the way every bit of violence inflicted changes John. The intense anger he felt in the beginning begins to simmer down and with every kill he feels more and more remorse and disgust. And it's noticeable the toll it takes. Then at the end the theme we noticed all along shines. That revenge is just a never ending cycle and John decides to stop it. And back to the real world, Arthur does feel disgust towards the gang as time goes on and wants to desperately leave. But can't because it's all he knows and feels loyalty to his only family, so he continues committing acts he doesn't believe in. If you didn't feel retarded enough here's another thing to remember. The many enemies killed are for gameplay purposes. In reality Ellie only killed less enemies than I have fingers on her path to Abby. Also straight up avoid all the enemies. In the first LOU Joel and Ellie technically only killed like less than 10 humans or something if you tried to avoid killing as many humans as possible.
@@luisprado7107 Props for your respone, made me giggle. I agree with most of your original comment but i strongly disagree with this: " The many enemies killed are for gameplay purposes. In reality Ellie only killed less enemies than I have fingers on her path to Abby. ". It is a game, not a movie. Everthing that happens during gameplay is part of Ellie's and Abby's journey. Killing countless Wolves, Scares and Rattlers it part of that.
@@luisprado7107 as a human u kno killing isnt normal blah blah and this people are stone cold (mcs) killing selfishly for their emotion and survivability. But still joel was the fan favourite you cant expect people to just accept that he died? saying that peeps should mature and stop babbling about it. dying in a cool way by the revenge of another person would be damage control but way better. going against the flow wouldnt always land agood reaction
Actually, that's a good point - Joel's end... has no effect on Abby ... it gets mentioned a few times by her friends, but she just rubs it of , like whatever ... when you start playing as Abby, she just moves on to her next mission as if nothing particularly life changing happened ... no conflict, no struggle, nothing... In the beginning she is shown to be obsessed with finding Joel, to a suicidal degree. She then takes her time with fulfilling her revenge, in a brutal fashion... Fast forwarded to Seattle and she is just munching kebabs and fighting seraphites without a care in the world. As if this whole "you killed my father, prepare to die" sequence was added as a last minute tie in, so she can just high jack the story.
Nick Dare yeah, of course she rubbed it off, cuz she is not the other people. Everyone is different, including the people in the game and they react differently to to different things. I can’t believe that so many people including you completely missed the point of this story and how good it actually is just because it’s not the Disney ferry tale they wanted.
@@jacopom2778 The first game wasn't a Disney ferry tale either... part 2 is mostly held to the standard of part 1, and people like me are just disappointed cos it doesn't hold up to the original. All the points on violence, revenge, diversity, questionable morals that part 2 tried to make were already successfully made in part 1. But please tell me what major point I'm missing, cos so far it feels like part 2 was just a over hyped cash grab. It could have been just reduced to a series of DLC to the ps4 remaster edition, just showing Ellie's and Abbie's flashbacks, and fans would have happily accepted that.
If that was actually supposed to be a plot point they could have ripped off Princess Bride amd made it work. She looks for this guy she doesn't know the name of for years in order to get revenge, and when she finds out it's him she kills him. Add some conflict because they worked together before she finds out.
The real tragedy is all the work that the actually talented employees at ND had to pour into this polished turd. All so Druckman could deliver an incredibly tired and ham-fisted REVENGE BAD MMKAY story. What a waste.
I always love how a legal matter serious as a copyright enforcement can be treated like it wasn't a felony to file false reports. Very odd how big companies can side step the technically legal aspects of their product.
Since Neil used fake cut scenes and false advertisements, designed to fool people into buying the game thinking Joel was going to be in it, isn't that classified as fraudulent and illegal? Shouldn't Druckmann be getting slapped with Federal Trade Commission red tape by now? It's illegal for a business to initiate the use of false, misleading, or unproven information to advertise products which is what happened here with this game.
This game is like seeing someone kill your father and then listening to the killer's reasons to why he killed your father. - Hey, I had to kill your father, he did this and that. You know.. I suffered too, so.. yeah - Ohhh damn, I understand man. Thank you for killing my father, I'll let you go now.
Yes it's exactly like that. Ellie thanks her and sends her on her way merrily. Forget the days of context in-between and all that transpires, and that they nearly beat each other to death, that's not important when making snide jokes. Human interactions are as black and white as that. Every one who loses a loved one to someone else has a hatred that can never be quelled until they exact revenge, upon which all will be right again in their universe and life can resume just like it did before.
This game is all about consequences. The acts of joel Lead out into The last of us 2. EllieWanted to get revenge no matter what, but as time progresses, and she remembers joel time after time, the Joel that Lied to her and killed everyone for selfish reasons. If Ellie had killed Abby, she would had just become what Joel Was in the moment Of the hospital, a selfish killer, Therefore, she would become what She hates in joel this whole time. All for revenge. And what was the consequence of revenge? She lost everyone, Dina, Tommy, jesse, and even her fingers. These are the consequences of the game. That is what the last of us 2 is.
@Peek- At -Ch'you for a game that has infected Humans and Giants Bloater boss battles, idk if you can really compare it with Realistic stuff. Well, it's a matter of opinnion, really. People hate the game for not having joel. People hate the game for the ending being weird, and i Can see that. The game is far from perfect, but i liked it for the poetic aspect. It's really a matter of opinnion.
Molina か you said it man. I can’t believe people can’t understand the story like this. It was executed well that we thought Abby was just a pure villain, but then we see the softer side of Abby. I love Joel but just watching from the 1st trailer I already accepted that he’d be dead at some point. Heck even the opening credits did not even show Troy Baker as the main character.
too many flashbacks n that ending was quite the copout if u ask me. Ellie literally kills Abby's group round Seattle jus to let her go? no sense at all.
She was mad and she wasn’t getting over Joel’s death. The revenge of Abby and Elie both cost them a lot and they both realized it cost them a lot of stuff. Abby lost her friends and Elie lost her fingers, her friend Jesse, and Dina.
Very true. Not killing Abby makes the whole story pointless. Either kill Abby and lose everyone around you, or don't kill Abby and still have the people around you. Not killing Abby AND losing everything else gives ZERO payoff and makes it an incredibly poorly written game.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 poorly written because it doesn’t have a happy ending? There is payoff for her actions, just not in a positive way. Everything Ellie does comes back to bite her.
@@Ismael-kc3ry You completely missed it. It actually IS a happy ending for Abby, which is why it doesn't make sense. Abby has no consequences for her actions. Nothing bad happens to her. Even when she gets captured she is just set free by Ellie and let to go live a comfortable life after beating her senseless, lol. Next time, read the comment carefully.
It's a tragic story that in my opinion captures the feeling of a Greek tragedy especially in antigone where creon learns from his mistakes after losing everyone he loves.
Druckman: “No, I'm gonna ruin you! And your Ellie! And bring some babochłop psychokiller to replace you, so audience would like her instead. That will rock.” *** Audience: [Producing films on YT of how to properly finish off Druckman's Abby and watching it with sadistic joy.]
@@megajennybenny what have you been doing with your great imagination? Do you wanna know the funniest thing though the scenario for this game was actually supposed to be used in the first game with tess as the main villain and coming after joel and ellie for revenge but apparently Neil Cuckmann called to "unrealistic" Haha funny that. Just take your SJW shit and go back to your fantasies man.
![[Part 1] ทารกน้อยถูกทิ้ง👶 หญิงชราเก็บขวดขายเลี้ยงดูเขาจนโต #โลกการละคร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nPTDvFCExks/mqdefault.jpg)
“It’s a story about right and wrong written by people who think they’re always right.” This was said by a Japanese fan and it puts it perfectly.
The shoe has never fit so snug as it does for this quote.
this right here.
Haters gonna be haters!!
You forgot the "no matter what" at the end.
Still, this quote is absolutely perfect
Damn... well said. I hope that guy doesn't mind if I steal his/her words. It could be applied to the last jedi, terminator dark fate, bat woman, ghostbusters 2016, dr. who, star trek picard just to name a few.
As a game dev I can tell you it takes only a few people in key positions to turn a good project into a nightmare.
Very true
True that’s why you do as much of the work yourself until you drive yourself into the ground. And if you truly do need to hire someone for something contracts can be your best friend.
@@butterballporkbunthetoymak agreed, just look at Dust: an Alyssian Tail. That game was made almost entirely by one guy (except for the music, and the voice acting).
Правда.
Pretty sure most of team knew this would be a disaster, but they were too busy being crunched to deliver those assets in time they just didn´t care. "The story is garbage? Not my problem, I was paid to make skin texture assets and what they gonna do with those is noone of my business."
"Context doesnt matter", well tbh context made it even worse
I mean yeah that probs should have been worded better because context does matter
It happens to be the case that, the context made everything fucking worse
Context absolutely matters. The context is "You brutally killed a beloved character for no discernable reason." And given that context, I'm not sure what they were expecting.
Wait I thought all they were saying was context IS what matters.
@@ClokworkGremlin actually the context is "You brutally killed a beloved character for no discernible reason in a manner that doesn't even make any fucking sense" but you know
Yeah. Context matters. Druckmann didn't give it good context.
But I understand why he said it. The entire context wouldn't stop people from disliking what she did. Context can help, but not the context provided by Druckmann there.
Imagine dying as Arthur then playing as *Tuberculosis* for 10 hrs afterwards in order for you to sympathized with it.
Technically Micah killed him but TB finished him.
@@dreliq981 If you honor is low Micah will shoot Arthur in the head if Arthur decides to help John, or will kill Arthur with the knife to the back if Arthur decides to go for the money. If your honor is high Arthur will exhaust himself during the fight with Micah and will succumb to the TB, or if he goes for the money back to the camp he will be stabbed in the back by Micah and slowly bleed to death but before that slash Micah's eye with his hand. Arthur dies by either Micah or by Micah combined with TB.
@@dreliq981 Sucks to be Arthur!
@@dreliq981 if arthur didnt have tb then he would’ve beat the living shit out of micah
then tuberculosis gets to walk away in the end because lumbago thought that rEeeEVenGE iS BaAaD.
The character didn't ""die." He was murdered slowly in a gruesome way in front of another equally loved character. Big difference and he knows it. So disingenuous in almost everything he's said about this game.
The way he's murdered refelects the tone in which the game starts, the fact that is gruesome enhances the desire to go in search for revenge and the motives ellie has.
@@velasbloc6762 but she doesn't get that revenge, and losses even more for literally no catharsis in the end
@@Trefox87 maybe they should've made the story about forgiveness and you could've even made a whole thing where ellie has to forgive joel for what he did
Trash
THAT is a good idea. The story should have revolved around her hatred of his choice and feeling conflicted about his raising her. I think a revenge story culminating in her ultimately forgiving him would have been great. It could then be the motivation for her not killing the person who killed him. They’d have to rewrite Abby, though.
@@Trash-ramen or even better, make Abby forget Joel for what he did, if this is a story about "revenge is bad" then use just one revenge journey not two mixed in a stupid way
don't you love how Jesse replaces Joel in the game but in the commercial they falsely advertised Joel
It's almost like the advertisers knew no one would like it and did everyone in their power to hide it until enough people had already bought it that they could just deny refund and make a profit.
@@metazoxan2 That's not necessarily the case. Technically they did this in the trailer for the first game too with a fake out for having to choose Joel's fate as Ellie, but they didn't lie about who the story would be about and that game was competently made so it didn't matter.
That's what the bait and switch was about, sucker people in with false imagery. That's why they lost it when the leaks came out.
That was nasty....
Outstanding move
“Yea there was a sequel... wasn’t as good.”
-Joel
Hahahaha that reference is too good
Ellie: "There was a sequel... wasn't as good." Joel: "Yep."
You did good kiddo
whoevet wrote that dialogue was enlightened
Right on the museum, with Ellie wearing Indiana Jones hat. Love that little segment.
Druchmann didn't have the co writer from the first game to keep his writing on a leash
The one with common sense unfortunately.
I just hope ,in an alternate universe Bruce Straley was involved , It woulda been much better , do you know Neil was gonna have Tess kill joel , Oh don't be angry let me give you some context ...........
@@sarveshbane1609 it was his first idea. HE decided to not use it.
And his idea was that Tess attacks Joel and Ellie saves him
@@DeutscherPatrick Lmao that would be the stupidest scene ever
@@DeutscherPatrick yeah there was a whole video of him talking about how he got the idea for the first game, what it was supposed to be, how he fought for his idea, and what he wanted to do with it and changed it beacuse he knew it wasn't right for the story(the whole Tess trying to kill Joel and ellie)
Druckmann strikes me as the kind of guy that likes to be told he’s a great writer, rather than listen to his critics and understand why he’s awful
ur awful
What a mature and well thought out counter
@@dylanthrillmour866 Thanks, poured my heart and soul into it o7
Reminds me of YandereDev
I think that he is a good writer, imagine being able to create idiotic characters who proceed to do stupid shit, like Lev stealing a boat and going alone to a place where everyone wants to kill him 🤦♀️
It’s so funny he’s upset the game was spoiled by the Internet revealing its amazing twist AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME
TheLegend 27 He doesn't sound upset at all, honestly. Unless you count using caps lock for emphasis as being "upset". Congrats on using the same tired response of "Actually, you're the one who's upset!", though. That hasn't been overused to death at all.
@TheLegend 27 Well, he is trying to cons us, so it makes sense the con man isn't that mad that people are mad at his con. What confuses me is why would he admit it now? Everyone called him out on it and now he is complaining the everyone calling him out it, even though he wanted that reaction, I guess he wasn't expecting people to see through it.
JMBoote1 i answered him then realized that i was just repeating you verbatim. Now i will just add that certain types of people just don’t understand how comedy works.
65firered In his mind he is still righteous.
@@65firered Trying? Nah he did.
They even use joel on last of us 2 trailer just to hype everyone lol
It wouldnt be a twist if the trailer gave away the twist.
Havent you ever watched a movie?
Are you serious? Movies do this all the time..stop complaining
@@argetit that doesn't make it good, the false advertisement i mean
Allenrich88 not this way.. 99 times out of a hundred movies just put things in different orders, which is what naughty dog could’ve done but they completely swapped Jesse with Joel to false advertise. Wtf is good about that, if they just rearranged the order with Joel’s dialog over certain scenes they could’ve pulled it off and gained some respect from their fans, while not reducing any hype.
@@Everythingsleeps Have you? Movies don't make it seem like the protagonist will be this one character and then completely replace him when the real thing comes out
TLOU3 Ellie wakes up and tells Joel about a dream she had about some ma'am named Abby.
That would be way better at least. Her and Joel have to set out to stop the prophecy from her dream from happening
I originally envisioned for this story to end where Ellie sleeps with Dina inside Eugene's hideout and then several weeks later they were discovered by Joel, Tommy & Jesse waking them both at the same time!
👏👏👏
And then the last of us III starts, would be better
I wish
He wasn't upset that people hated it, he knew they would.
He was just upset they didn't have to pay him for it first.
How many of those are return copies after the players finished it and hate it, there are few stores that have so many used copies of the last of us 2 that they are not accepting anymore returns on it just because it sold 4 million doesn't mean it's good to take a look at the last Jedi it made money but it was a shitty movie and that there are a lot of people who bought the game because of the name they were too by Naughty Dog and Neil
Right? Like, all evidence points to Druckmann literally trying to catfish people using TLOU’s goodwill into buying this mess. Literal false advertising that people are actually out here defending. It’s insane
@Rosencrantz but it not the amount he wanted thats why he is upset
PRECISELY!
He made mad money off the game.
He's got zero reason to be mad.
Just another whiner with no reason to be mad.
Abby: Kills all the people close to ellie and also her only father figure and beloved character, also bites off two of her fingers
Ellie at the end: Understandable have a great day
Omar Ibarra stupid comment- Ellie killed more people than Abby. Abby let Ellie live twice but Ellie could not enjoy a peaceful life with Dinah because she was still full of shit
@@peterpunk5049 Do you know what PTSD is? Probably not to be saying such a stupid comment, at least Ellie felt some emotion after she did the things she did, did you ever see Abby feeling emotionally shaken after either killing Joel or her whole group to save 2? the only thing full of shit here is you.
@@UrikShinoob I agree, my grandfather and father have PTSD so i understand your comment
Natan Leal You spitting fucking facts dude , hey you dropped this king 👑
Xkos darkness Damm that must be hard to deal with ): , i hope their both doing ok
“The Fireflys were trying to bring back order” blows up a security checkpoint that was making sure infected people aren’t entering one of the last few places left on Earth that aren’t infected
What ever happened to those checkpoints anyway? Who the fuck knows they did no world building in two
Cuckman forgets literally that the Fireflies devolved into a counter military faction that carried more about fighting the the new order after the US collapsed more than finding a cure.
Joel was supposed to only get her out of the city for his payment. Nobody was there and he wasn't paid. He delivered her to the Fireflies and got smashed in the face with the end of a gun and held prisoner. I guess that didn't really put him in a good mood. Then he finds out they're going to kill Ellie, probably doesn't put him in a good mood either. All in all, the end of the last game worked fine and the Fireflies were not being reasonable at all. They knew if they had a cure it would make them very powerful and/or rich.
@@6581punk EXACTLEY!! Nobody mentions this and then the cure wasn't 100% either. They were willing to kill a little girl for a 50/50 chance that they MIGHT get a cure. He never mentions this.
@@keychain3039 50/50 is incredibly generous. Irl using a vaccine for a fungus does nothing.
Neil Druckmann: we're going to make the fans hate this game
The fans: we hate this game
Neil Druckmann: stop hating our game that we wanted you to hate, you bigots
In his defense, planning people to get angry and getting death threats are two different things. You want players to be angry AT THE GAME, not the devs (.... unless you make a free to play game that requires $60 to enter, then you can hate the devs).
Is like, if you make a sad game, you dont want people to off themselves.
@@icarue993 the whole thing about the death threats were extremely exaggerated. It was an extreme minority of people who would've actually meant any sort of threat, but Naughty Dog were clutching at straws defending the game. ND made some very questionable choices, and when it was too late to do anything to fix things they just flat out lied about the game's content and resorted to bait and switch.
@@rockys201 What I mean is more, yes they want people angry, but direct it towards Abby, not the devs. Even if there were not death threats. Not defending TLOU2, because I never played it. Just saying it as a fellow game dev (that enjoys telling tragic stories).
@@icarue993 well sure, but it was the devs that made the creative choices. Nobody ever deserves death threats for any reason, let alone a game, but they should've known from the start that the choices they went with would not go down well with most of the fanbase.
It also inflamed the situation when Neil Druckmann posted on social media that the fans who didn't like the story were homophobes and bigots. Just from a business standpoint that's obviously not a good way to talk to your fans
@@rockys201 Ok fair. Then thats the dev himself actively insulting the fanbase. I sometimes wish they were more honest with their intentions, something like:
We killed Joel to let Elli shine, and we did it in that way so that you feel anger towards (Buff blonde). We could have handle things better.
Or something. I tend to show my cards to my players and they tend to react positively and offer positive feedback. I feel game devs would have a more positive reaction if they were to be more humble and explain things (but PR probably wont let them tbh)
Druckman loves himself so much he put himself in the game twice
There is a secret script draft where every character is named Neil the D dog.
Manny is played by a completely different person so stop the misinformation.
@@Yes_Fantasy_419 Manny looks just like him though
Dina
@@Yes_Fantasy_419 Jesus, TDS so strong with you, lol.
Living rent free in your head, got his name as your title, and you promoting censorship.
What flavor was that whole pitcher of kool-aid? Whatever flavor, bet it was salty.
Isn't false advertising against the law? I mean we have Druckmann saying specifically that they set out to make misleading or false claims. Just how the hell is this legal?
what matters from a legal perspective is what it says on the tin.
This is definitely illegal. He should be in jail
It would probably require a class action, and those are always a huge pain in the ass. Plus even if you win, after Naughty Dog drags their feet for months and months you'll probably spend more money than you win in any kind of decision.
I think all we can do is tell everyone to stop buying things from this scumbags. Maybe he'll quit the industry.
Joel was falsey advertised. That idiot Jesse replaced him
There is precedent that you don't have to be honest in a trailer. Especially for preserving twists. There are tons of movies that have trailers with footage not in the movie.
To be honest i thought the story would have Dina getting killed and Ellie got mad and go for revenge with Joel helping him just like how they showed in the trailer.
Exactly
False advertising. They literally marketed it like that.
Kronos just like Avengers and countless others do false advertising so they can give you trailers without giving away the story because then people complain that they just watched the story in a trailer
Robert Aguirre
Here’s the difference between what Marvel did, and what Naughty Dog did. Marvel didn’t make it look like a character was going to play a major role in the story, but not actually having that in the movie.
This would have been better story
Props to the dude who leaked the entire story, saved alot of people their money.
Nope , he just ruined peoples experience with prejudice 🙃i played it , and i really understood why shit what happens there happend , i like abby as character and her story is really good , i bow to all the guys who worked on this masterpiece 😊
Yeah, i buy instead GOT and i love it
For me, TLOU 2 is just a nightmare and never happened
@@reezek3956 You almost got me. Good satire
@@KingFloch88 😅😅i actually meant it , but we re all different . No need to be rude. However i think that leaks in general are not a good thing , if i was developing something and such major leaks were to be ...well... leaked , i d be really frustrated. Neil himself told us it was worst day of his life.
@@reezek3956 i was about to get on your head but realized your just trolling
Talk about confessing your crimes.
In my case, I didn't see any of the leaks, so went in blind. The part that actually annoyed me to no end is when the game veered off a cliffhanger confrontation to tell Abby's side of the story. The best way I can describe this is if during the Empire Strikes Back, before you get the Darth Vader fight, you have to witness the entire prequel trilogy happening first.
And that's the case with me I didn't see the leaks so I went in blind as well. If I woulda known all the stuff I know now I wouldn't have even bothered buying the game.
Same. I came in blind too. Had zero knowledge of anything about the game. I felt more rushed playing Abby just to get to the part where she faces Ellie. Her story didn't make sense to me and her character was a little inconsistent. Shes referenced to be the best scar killer, yet goes out of her way to the hospital to help Yara, as well as the Island to get Lev back. That whole subplot was just weird and off putting. It was irrelevant to the actual main storyline. It felt more like a useless side mission than anything. They could've incorporated the Scars much better into the main story that impacts both Ellie and Abby. Like, both of them getting caught or something.
When I started playing Abby I was like "ok guess this is a 2-3 hours storyline". They really fked up.
@@TheGreatAyRAB the worse part about what you are saying is that they used yara and lev to try and show that abby has suddenly changed and grown as a person. Like yea i killed joel, and 2 months later im a completely different person. Her large amount of growth across 2 days of in game story just doesn't make any sense at all.
Lol well put, they jump too much around and its jarring at times!
Im still so baffled they didnt look one game back and go "Oh wait, we did that shit already... Oh actually this is cool, lets scrap abby and do cross-countryside infection learning type shit"
Kratos: It's okay, Zeus. I forgive you for taking everything from me.
- *directed by Neil Druckman* -
Ahh, that hurt to read
Wow well said
Kratos : Let's go get a beer, Zeus. Drinks on me.
I killed the whole pantheon but hey, guess what? I realized revenge is bad! :D
Kratos too learned that his revenge was useless and almost destroyed the world, hell he even killed himself after that.
And imagine comparing Kratos to a kid...stupid.
They should’ve kept Bruce Straley. He was the reason we all loved the story of the first one.
All this kind of makes me wonder how much of Uncharted 4 Bruce is responsible for too, as I loved that game.
I mean Neil actually created the focus of The Last Of Us back in school and it was basically a failed movie project that he pitched to Naughty Dog and got a game made. I’m not saying Bruce Straley didn’t do anything, because ever since he left, the game after, wasnt good. But Neil did a lot of work on TLOU because it was a passion project with an and had a lot of thought put into it, now Neil cares about making money off of nostalgia and showing his views on feminism.
@@callmepsycho3132 How is there "showing views of feminism"? All I see is a game with a shitty narrative. Just because he quoted sarcancer a YEARS ago deosnt mean he is some beta male SJW.
@@Bad_At_Parties Uncharted has always faced the same problem as tlou. And people have always overlooked it. Drake kills hundreds of npcs and suddenly hesitates to kill the main villain. Thats the exact problem Ellie faced too. But now since the villain actually KILLED a character we cared about we hate druckman and ND suddenly.
Accept it, ND was always overrated af.
@santhosh sridhar I really don’t have time to explain this to some random person in the internet when they can easily check on the internet.
Enough with the political bs. Enough with sex, race, or agendas. I just want a game or a movie that makes me forget about life
Try russian roulette. The kids love it.
@@NO3V 😂😂😂😂
Nah your right. This game so woke just reminds me of all this shit going on with radical feminists
@@paulypipes3082 yeah , they suck
Exactly. All this sjw and political bullshit is slowly ruining video games.
He even admits to tricking consumers. lol.
Australia consumer protections laws are going to eat their ass alive for that.
@@GreenWolfRaider I hope so, but not gonna hold out hope for justice until it actually happens.
consoomers
This man literally admitted to, "switching characters/skins and making fake cutscenes" so... yeah... if you like this game.. I don't know what else to say man but enjoy being lied to.
@@Isaac-mm9jz And enjoy living in sheer ignorance, which is what the defenders of this game are doing.
*Neil Speaks*
Rest of the community: the ability to speak doesn’t make you intelligent!
@@Saint_Wolf_ too far
Facundno Bueno dick
@@USAMUSLGaming Yes. That's exactly what Abby has
@@killaxhooks Nah it's so close that you can smell his breath
@@Saint_Wolf_ you don't have to be an asshole
I almost laughed when she had that flashback of Joel at the end, because I can guarantee you Joel would've killed Abby right there without a second thought, so I've no idea why his memory would stop Ellie from doing the same
Joel was a G
@@charlierunkle19 Joel was kind of a piece of shit actually. Killed anyone who got in his way without a second thought. No real regard for human life beyond his immediate circle of family and friends. He killed people without remorse, without hesitation.
Joel definitely got what was coming to him.
They write Ellie's mind sick. She didn't got the revenge she needed, now what she is gonna do with this space in her. I think only explanation is she became sick she couldn't handle it and became sick. People saying cycle shit but if there is a cycle then why all npc's dont get revenge. I remembered gow4 Kratos saying cycle ends here and kills the guy (I cant remember). Gow4's ending was convincing.
@@RolaiEckolo all Joel killed were hunters and people who attacked him first
And the fireflies tried to forcefully operate on a girl for a vaccine that they might not even have been able to make
Lol the fireflies got what was coming to them and fuck abie she is a shitty attempt at forcing a character to be crammed in a game and liked
(No hate against the actor she did a good job)
That's.. exactly why. Joel had changed.
I'm not sure if you understand how humans work, but they're not constant, not even consistent most of the time.
Ellie realized at the end that revenge didn't matter. It was forgiveness.
this guy, Neil, has no idea on what planet he’s situated. He’s so absent in his speech and arguments, no wonder why Part II is a mess...
he spent too long in his echo chamber, he's gone tone deaf
Whatever planet it is. It's not our planet earth
@Brett Kozlak what?
Brett Kozlak and by that you mean ?
@Brett Kozlak what is JQ?
You are doing something wrong if you go out of your way to make a divisive game that will piss of most of it’s fans to appeal to what? 1% of twitter losers instead of pleasing your core audience aka fans.
twitter users who'd never buy the game no less. remember these idiots never buy what's virtue signaled to them,
I dont say it's perfect, but does every story has to please fans? Fan service isn't something that's good. Writing is art so that was his vision. We can only rate it but he definitely didn't do it WRONG.
@@k1eu It's a video game, not art. They market it in a specific way and expect gamers who liked the first one to buy the second one too. It's just dishonest and idiotic
@@MrSuperman957 Videogames aren't art? Wtf
@@k1eu EXACTLY. Finally someone with some sense. Gahdamn
Didn't The Last Jedi do something similar? They had purple hair lady seem stupid and uncaring the whole movie and then try to characterize her well after the audience already hates her. What is with that? Why can't these people just stick to a basic understanding of storytelling and get us to like a character BEFORE introducing conflict? They all think they're these great artists who are ready to do new and unusual things with storytelling when they really just don't have the skill to pull it off.
I’ve been trying to preach this shit for years
Lol. These guys are just sick man. Fucking useful idiots.
I agree. "subverting expectations" is a phrase that i only hear "i cant' write and i suck" in.
They expand Holdo's character greatly in external materials, not that that matters. Apparently she was supposed to have been a lifelong friend of Leia's, appearing to be a replacement for Winter. The sequels rely far too much on books and comics to seal plot holes and flaws in the movies.
Zachary Rollick it’s the main issue of the Disney trilogy. They expect us to read the books to know what happens, but most of us don’t care
"Wait you're name is Joel?! Joel Miller!!"
"Ummm... Joel.. Richardson?"
"Understandable, have a great day"
*Directed by Neil Drruckman*
"Umm sorry for you're leg"
"......."
Joel: I'm not Joel... I'm Jose, amigo! Ay ay ayyyy!
I saw a video called the story of joel miller and you won't believe this it was 5 years ago
Bruhhh💀
@@johnlex5688 lmao
When the part came where Druckmann talked about 'ignorant' fans or well, former fans/players I thought to myself, what a stupid, ignorant bastard that guy actually is. And the actors that played Joel and Ellie, I don't know what's going on with them..
They won't bite the hand that fed them.
A few months ago before the leaks, Troy Baker did try to warn the fan to have an open mind on his twitter I said Neil saw it flip out Troy got flack for saying it so Neil pressured Troy to do the video back in May after the leaks begging fans to buy the game what I notice Troy didn't look to thrill defending the game and he looks nervous and he was fidgeting all over the place and we need to remember Ashely and Troy are still under contract with Naughty Dog if they have spoken negatively of the game in this live stream Neil would have a cow he would go crying to Sony to blacklist Ashley and Troy from working in the video game.
Ashley Johnson described in past interviews how much she loved playing Ellie. I really wonder if it was the case in TLOU2. I guess we’ll never know.
Haha all is true but he just made an ass load of money from haters.
People need to remeber that contracts do keep them from saying anything, you cannot hate them for following that, they aren't going to ruin their careers and lives. That's why we really have to take it seriously when an actor says something like "People are reaaally gonna need to have an open mind."
You know if he wanted a story with a message of stopping the cycle of vengeance what if instead of killing Joel, Abby was forced to work with him and in the end forgives him because she learns that everyone including herself is flawed?
Not enough beloved characters dying for you Neil? Ah guess you don't like good writing either so no surprise there
Pretty much, he think that if there is no chock value, then there is no value at all... who needs a well written story when you put sadistic violence and sex scenes right ?
Neil been hating the joel character since the beginning of this last of us journey in the first game he written tess as the bad guy cuts joel hand and torture him and ellie was supposed to kill her tess I'm starting to see a similarity here guys neil never liked joel ever
@@alien-hs1zn source?
@@EricToTheScionti google
I laughed badly when druckmann said that abby’s story is a redemption story. Yes, it looks like a redemption story but it doesn’t feel anything like a redemption story. If you want your audience to truly sympathize with your character’s redemption story, then there should atleast be a midpoint in her story where she starts showing remorse and regretting her actions and then questioning her own morality which ultimately the game’s story never had time for developing as it’s so focused on developing a revenge story unfolding into another revenge story and etc. Instead she kills more and more and never feels remorse, while Ellie continuously does as she always gave her victims a chance until she gets forced into killing them. Regardless, Ellie loses everything and Abby lives on, not even getting haunted by her friends’ deaths.
Well said. 👌
I actually couldn't have said it better myself
She didn’t want to fight ellie at the end, so that (pretty badly) shows she forgives ellie for murdering her friends and wants to squash the beef , she only fought ellie because ellie forced her to by threatening to kill lev
HOLY FUCK DID YOU EVEN PLAY THE GAME? SO what do you call her saving lev and yara? What do you call her saying she needed this? How do you call the fact that she loses everything including her friends? How about the fact that she spared ellies and dina's life? Or when she didn't wanted to fight ellie at the end? It is a redemption story but ur just too stupid to see it.
@@blacktimbs8354 SHE forgives ELLIE??? the fuck???
False advertising is illegal.
avengers infinity wae had fake trailers too
@@kissshot2242 yes but definitely not as bad
@@kissshot2242 and people still didnt like that your point
@@Tree_-wp5zn not as bad but it still is false advertising is
it not?
@@kissshot2242 There is a limit for that.
Not even abbys friends like her, why should I
Because shes an amazing character
Pedro vinícius You’re joking right
I actually care about her more than Ellie
@@LincolnClay98 Same.
@@LincolnClay98 Lou2 is the worst game ever its trying so hard to be dark it makes it trash and i love dark games dont get me f*cked up but this games story makes no sense ! I never hated a game so much the minute Joel died by that guy girl whatever Naughty Dogs lost a huge fan !
Abby was willing to kill a pregnant woman. At least Ellie was felt awful for what she did.
Remember when Owen said “if we kill her, we are no better than the rest of them” when they were about to kill Ellie after killing Joel? Ellie became a living example. Not saying Abby was a good person cause she was shitty. But everybody was shitty too. Ellie became that at the end and realized she stuck in the past and couldn’t move on. Thats the reason why Joel died. He couldn’t move on from his daughter. Abby couldn’t move on from her dad. Ellie couldn’t move on from Joel’s lie and his death. Once Ellie was actually happy, she threw it away because she still stuck in the past.
Troy Baker's face the whole time...
Ashley Johnson looks troubled, but Baker looks to be in full on "What have I gotten myself into?" mode.
I also feel bad for both Ashley and Troy.
I totally agree and I feel bad for them.
I'm guessing you guys didn't see the video where Troy said Neil was Jesus
Because maybe he’s being treated? Maybe?
Troy Gayker
Neil just loves Abby because it's his character. He thought pt2 would be so much better because Bruce wasn't there to say no to his crazy ideas.
Neil: Tells everyone the game will be divisive.
Also Neil: Surprised when lots of people don't like it.
Dude I was like WTF DO YOU EXPECT when you kill off a beloved character in such a horrific way and are then forced to play as his killer for almost half the game to try to "understand and empathise" with her 🤦♀️😠
Or maybe so many people saw the leaks and came into the game already hating what they did
I didn’t watch any of the leaks and avoided them to give the game the benefit of the doubt. But now that I’ve played it, I’m disappointed and won’t be doing a second playthrough
The exact same thing happened with Rian, why do you make a movie/game with the mission statement of making it as divisive as possible AND then complain that some people really didn't like it
Where you expecting praise for the fact you made it divisive?
And that is the problem the Neil, tried to be divisive instead of making a fucking great game.
They shoot themselves in the foot then get surprised that it hurts
I feel like at some point they went “fuck it” and turned it all into a huge cash-grab.
@@highlander6573yeah. I mean if they know players will hate it, why do it?.. maybe the development is already done and they just went for it.. I mean, I don't know..
Neil: I'm gonna make a game that many people will hate!
Fans: We hate it.
Neil: **surprised Pikachu face**
We will be okay JOEL DYING.
We can move on. We might look for Vengeance if he was murdered. Or accept it if he got grabbed by clickkers.
But then... ABBY. You choose the abby story line.
You fucked up...
What we hate is that we had to play as the one who fucking killed him.
That's a big fuck you on our face.
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 At the worst possible time too.
@@abramrexjoaquin7513 if they did a big chunk of the game about Abby and develop her motivations and personality BEFORE she killed Joel. It would have been better, and Ellie should've killed her
Yeah it's actually astonishing just how bad the story / writing is, and how blind Neil is to that. Makes me think Bruce Straley developed most of the original
Plus he suppresses free speech to stop people finding out before they buy the game.
"Wait your name is Joel?! Joel Miller!!"
"I think you heard it's wrong it's Joe"
"Joe who?"
"Joe Mama"
And then Joel does a backflip, snaps Abby's neck and saves the day! THE END
🛀🛀🛀🛀🛀🛀🛀🛀🏼
@@ironwraith852 I would pay the amount charged for TLOU remake to play THAT game!!!
Any man who crosses his arms the way Neil does should never be trusted.
Dudes avatar... nvm 🙄
So you don't trust Just Some Guy?
@@bobelserr5441 don't trust anyone. Especially yourself.
@@bobelserr5441 not really at the end of the day he's just another guy on youtube making videos. it's not like any of us really know him.
I STILL DON’T UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF THE SEX SCENE
WHAT WAS THE R E A S O N
Just got the Rateing I guess? I don't understand why that was in there anyway. I didn't play the game but form everything I heard and hear. I still have no understanding of that scene.
@Reconsider your position It is out of nowhere though. I understand that she loves him but why cheat? Good thing that they are both dead or else lol.
@Reconsider your position I'm glad they are using some of the money they made to try and do damage control. How much are they paying you?
The game from walkthrough was wey to lesbians, so they probably thinking like lets put this gay sex scene inside and make sure that people know that Abby is a man.
@Reconsider your position That's a good explanation. But even so, I still don't like this scene. It fits more to 18+ game and it's too odd for a violent game about fighting with zombies. It would look better in games like Outlast, where there's more of sexual content, to be honest. I doubt teenagers are able to understand the meaning of this scene properly. Not to mention, this scene is just uncomfortable to watch, it's more like rape than making love.
It was funny how he immediately brought up "anti-semitic comments" as a shield. Jesus, this is really getting old.
Especially given how quick he is to shit on other races/religions.
Well, I mean that's standard operating procedures!!
the jew cries as he (copyright) strikes you
Chutzpah!
Just keep rejecting all that tiring nonsense and keep your wallet closed.
Its like Game of Thrones all over again.
"You people are just angry that your favourite character died! Get over it!"
No.. its not about that at all. I don't care that Joel dies - but the way it was written and executed is beyond terrible.
The way he died was perfect.
@@argetit yeah they meet in the mountain out of nowwhere saving abby ex machina moment, tell them their name, where are they from, trusting stranger. Yeah it's perfect! i love it
@@reslaega6134 "ex machina" you just forget that she followed his tracks and she was literally next to his patrol point (so it's undersatndable that he found her). If you complain about things like this here why don't we complain about tlou 1 too? When bill shows up just in time to save joel? Or when marlene shows up just when joel and tess needed a firefly?
@@joaovitorcruz5133 yeah i guess naughty dog love that kinda things, what about their stupidity tho
@@reslaega6134 u mean joel's stupidity? Well if he is in the middle of a blizzard, with a horde following him and the only safe place is a house full of strangers is the only option i would go too, wouldn't you? They knew the area well, staying there was 100% death, so they had no choice. Also there is no problem in telling their names to an alone woman (not a hunter, the only thing they worried about) in order to gain trust. Also one of the patrol's objectives was helping strangers, so it was very common by that time. So yeah, pretty justified
For me the worse thing wasn’t killing off Joel early on, it was making us play as the woman who killed Joel. It just felt wrong, and yes, they tried to make us like Abby by having her turn into a ‘nice and caring’ character but it didn’t work for me. And then to control Abby in a fight AGAINST Ellie felt completely wrong. I naturally let Ellie kill me on the first play through. First time I ever played a video game controlling someone I wanted to die in a fight!
Oh bro, I totally feel you!!! That's exactly what happened to me! I let myself killed by Ellie the first time coz' I love her and I don't give a shit about Abby...
I let her burn me with a molotov and chop me with the machete so many times
The worst things is actually spending the game trying to avenge Joel and when you’re just about to kill Abby you let her live
For me the worst part is the Abbys god damn father not taking 15 minutes to talk to Ellie and Joel prior to the surgery. They knockout Joel, put Ellie under anesthesia, and begin the life ending surgery. Like... that’s the story?? The girls “mother figure” Marlene couldn’t talk to Ellie about it first?? Makes 0 sense, massive plot hole imo that goes not only unexplained in the sequel but also gets emphasized when you see the stupid flashback with Abbys dad before the surgery.
Honestly I’ve thought about ways the game could’ve been better and I think we can all agree this game should’ve been about the deterioration of Joel and Ellie’s relationship as the first one is the build up of it, and we see this because she learns he lies and then they have to work together again say to avenge someone like Dina or someone close to Ellie to make her get revenge (as semi teased in the initial teaser with her playing guitar in the house) and then as they go on this journey build that relationship back up and right when it gets to a better point maybe Joel dies for Ellie or for revenge or something that has meaning. All the while Ellie reflects on say the flashbacks in the game showing off that person close to her and Joel being apart of it
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
-Macbeth
Lol I remember this line
This line is so spot on for this game.
The last of us part 2 will succeed when the woods walk.
@@dr.vanilla9017 Good things Ents probably don't exist.
Perfect.
The "rape a child then explain why" analogy is ironic, because a lot of people complained about the show "13 Reasons Why" attempting to humanize Brent after spending two seasons making him the worst person ever.
He and Abby were kind of built the same too.
Why is that ironic?
@@_soups JSG didn't mention it in his video, so assuming he has no interest in the show (which is the right amount of interest) its ironic that his made up analogy has actually occurred and no one liked it, which adds to the irony because the same crowd that liked Abby's bullshit would hate Brent.
@@ragnarokaftershock That's just a similar situation coincidentally happening again. Irony is when the opposite of something you'd expect happens.
I got raped and abused when I was a child. It was an ugly side of a human nature and I forgave the person. I don’t find the need to use such analogy in any given scenario. I don’t know how to explain any further and I wish I have more of a valid point when I say this.
@@HelghastStalker you are a vile human being, I hope you know that.
I didt even pay for it and I want my money back
I want the years I spent hoping for a sequal back
i want the 20+ hours back
I'm not even interested in the series and I feel so bad for everyone being so disappointed.
So why the fuck are you talking? Look at you talking shit about a game you never played. You didn't even tried to understand the story, qute sad. I dont blame you if you didn't like the story, i blame you if you didn't even try.
@@velasbloc6762 Right!!
They literally had to rewrite the past in order to make this game: the entire plot is caused in response to Abby killing Joel because he killed her father, who was the doctor operating on Ellie in the first game, except you can clearly see in the first game that the doctor is black, so he couldn't have been Abby's dad.
Yes and the "cassette tape" Ellie finds which suddenly makes that doctor THE ONLY DOCTOR WHO COULD HAVE CURED THIS DISEASE! I mean like really? Is this a make believe game of 6 years olds? "Even if there is a cure, the person to make that possible is already gone...*sob sob*". Nowhere in the entire game was that fucking doctor mentioned ONCE. No body even speaks one line like the head doctor of the firefly unit is a very well know doctor etc. Nothing!
@@theWardennn And it's wasted because we watch the flashbacks in this game to find that this humanity-saving doctor..... is a veterinarian. Not a neurosurgeon or an immunologist or even a mycologist, who could understand the human brain, diseases and immunity, or fungi respectively. People are relying on a dude that delivered a zebra baby? They deserve what they had coming.
Wait r u saying Abby’s adopted
U might be on to something
@@narutousamaki4133 She's not adopted, they just whitewashed the doctor and made him Caucasian when he used to be African-American. They also made him 20 years younger and gave him different color scrubs in his flashback when his scrubs were more green in the first game.
@@theWardennn I know it's a game but you can't make a "cure" for fungus. The only way to permanently cure it would be to find something that kills it on cell level. We could discuss that Joel did the right thing saving Ellie since if they would have killed her only to discover that it doesn't work.
"it is a tale told by an idiot, all sound and fury signifying nothing."
~Shakespeare, probably about this game.
Isn’t that Macbeth (SR4 also quoted it)
And Macbeth was talking about the bleak, hopeless nature of life; something this game encapsulates beautifully. You may have made a great point by mistake.
@@joshuamacgregor Yea, I'm sure this game will be considered a great literary work in 100 years... /s
@@joshuamacgregor I see it more as mocking the ridiculousness of the message it tries to get across
@@joshuamacgregor "Beautifully"? How can nihilism and pessimism be captured "Beautifully", if something means nothing then it can't be done badly. Macbeth is a tragedy about power, the only tragedy of TLOU2 is talented artists wasted 7 years of their life rendering it.
This idea its good because its bleak reminds me of poeple defending the narrative on the grounds of 'realism', we can die at anytime so instant character deaths are logical; ignoring the obvious the plot armor of Ellie and Abby it still doesn't make it worthwhile writing. I could animate a guy drowning in the mud for 8 hours alone, its happened before in our history, I could render it photo realistically but does it enrich or add meaning to anyone's day? No. It'll make you feel bad for a while but getting an emotional response isn't an achievement, pornography does it.
The biggest complaint about the game isn't the death of Joel, that writing choice is merely symptomatic of its biggest flaw; the journey the lacked meaning. It wastes a lot of our time with nothing of value in exchange.
The issue is Druckman expected everyone to see Abby and Elie as the same, and her killing Joel the same as Joel killing her father. But it doesn't work. It doesn't work because the Fireflies were going to kill Ellie to attempt a vaccine, Jerry (Abby's father) threatened to kill Joel if he came any closer when he tried to save Ellie, so Jerry is already willing to kill Ellie and threatening Joel, making what Joel did an act of defense. There is no reason to have sympathy for the Fireflies or Jerry's behavior. Abby however is just pursuing a vendetta for her father's death, which Jerry brought entirely on himself. There is no conflating Joel's defensive actions to Abby's fully premeditated stalking and murdering of Joel. Her and her father never stop being the villains in this equation, so there was never going to be a reason for any player to sympathize with Abby. Its not equivalent and never will be. Joel and Ellie did what they did in defense of themselves. Abby is just a cold blooded killer, like her father. Following causation and whose responsible for the issue it all stems from, points directly to the bad actions of the Fireflies and Jerry to begin with, without any vagueness or moral greyness. Their aggression is the catalyst for all of this, and Abby killed a man who only defended himself and his daughter from her father. Ellie is the only one with a reasonable claim for justice against Abby for Joel's death. Abby is the villain.
People: 2020 is the worst year ever.
Neil : yeah, about that.
Yep last of the us just goes with everything that’s happening this year
Mananou Black Neil “let me make it even worst for ya... after all you only waited 7 years for it no biggie...”
Don't forget about the amount of mediocre movies they're churning out this year too.
@@shsjbdfhebe2507 PLEASE cancel Cyberpunk 2077 .... release it 2021 T_T
Neil and Sony - Hold my Beer
As I recall, in the clip he only gave his first name yes? And she knew last name right off the bat? IF she had no real way to know his last name, how many Joels did she mercilessly kill before getting the right one? She decide to just kill every Joel to be sure?
Abby is the female version of terminator.
Sooo true I can't even back the diologue for that it just shows how poorly written it was.
I feel bad for the Joel hiding out in the library just trying to survive. And Abby beating him to death just because she asked him his name.
Tommylee Canning come on guys i dont like the direction either but i see this dumb comment way too often. They def knew it was a joel with his brother tommy at a settlement in jackson, which is why they were there. How big are the chances that there’s another set of brother named tommy and joel in jackson.. and if you replay the game you can tell by abby’s face when tommy introduces himself and joel during the chase that she’s sort of unsettled with big eyes and kinda anxious when she hears his name. So yeah it’s just 2+2
LaraCroftEyes1 only difference is she doesn’t die like the terminator in every terminator movie
Honestly, Joel dying isn't the worst thing about this game. It's the fact that they killed him too early. It's the way that they killed him and it's the fact that they make you spend half the game playing as Abby who imo, is one of the most bland, boring and unlikeable protagonists in the history of video games.
I slogged through the Abby parts to get to the end and judging by the feedback, I was not in the minority there. Most people did not like playing as Abby and most people thought she was boring, bland and uninteresting as fuck.
I'm pretty sure I've made a record for deliberately killing a main character.
Tbh they needed his death to be brutal in order for Ellies revenge story to be justified
Thanks to god someone said this, so that everyone can see how RETARDLY bad gaming community is
@@NCA_Azzy LOL how many times did you do it?
Yeah, the way he died was disrespectful. If only they gave us a chance to play as Abby first to care for her. Then we find out that Joel killed her father and now has to face Joel and Ellie. Man, that would've fucking broken me emotionally. Detroit Become Human did this really well with 3 main characters' story, and how we get to play their stories chronologically.
He still doesn't get it. Its not about Joel dying its about the way he dies and the story as a whole
The discussion is off limits he disrespected a beloved character
Ans now Neil has to pay the price
He gets it, what YOU dont get is that that doesn't matter. The way joel dies is perfect to the story, now that is symbolizes abby's conviction and the reason it was so lifechanging for ellie and a result losing everything in seek of revenge.
Btw, i don't really think you understood the story
@@velasbloc6762 Joel suddenly giving his name out to complete strangers and acting out of character is good for the story? We perfectly understand the reasoning behind killing off Joel in the context of the story. That doesn't mean the execution is any good.
@@achair7958 Honestly there is no correct way to kill the character and create the intended message in the process. Yeah you could say that he would have never fallen for that, but at the same time you could say that hes older now, and been living in a safe community for over 4 years where they get new people all the time. See? I think people dislike the fact that he dies period and in a way blames it on the way he died rather than the fact that he died. I feel like with any other execution, the result would have been the same and we would be having this same conversation.
Velasbloc Are you mad? I see you commenting on almost all comments 😅
Main problem for me is you play as abby for 10 hours after killing joel and also trying to kill ellie wtf was that .
Forcing a forced character into people's throats, that's what happened
this game has amazing mechanics, features, graphics and details. but the storyline of this game really breaks my heart
you don't kill Ellie thou.. you are forced to fight her but no matter the outcome, she will live and the same cutscene will always play out after you're done fighting her..
@@garysamuel9497 There are a lot of games that hit those same marks or come close to them, but unfortunately most aren't story driven games. And if they are, they all pass this shitshow by a huge margin.
Well i have to say i liked abby's story better and at the end the game made me (kind of)hate ellie and tommy well ellie in this game she was real dumb if you look at the first game
Neil reminds me of one of the kids that did all the bad shit in school and still snitches on everybody else
So basically a beta male
@@johngreen8921 That's an insult to all beta males. They have morals and they can think critically.
I feel like I just admitted something I wouldn't try to irl.
@@melbournemeliodas215 Yeah this is more like an omega male move. Like gutter trash cowardice.
I reported you for anti-semitism. All you hateful people are so disgusting.
That snake student who isnt even funny or anything but is just mean to students and being a narc at parties that he was only pity invited to.
If Joel was killed through some heroic and memorable way, no one would ever be disappointed but nooooo
Thats exactly the point, they wanted to show a real world with no heroes, this is a post apocalyptic world where people die like shit, and Joel especially is not a heroe bc of all he did in the past and the game shows that everything you do has consequences
@@sdfvhiej what does it matter? The fans have respected and loved Joel for as long as the last of us has been around. And Joel just has to go like THAT? Tell me, if you made a fictional character that (for example) your fans loved so much, how would you treat their death? By killing them off for no conventional reason? By shitting on their entire legacy AND their own main character's entire legacy? No. You treat their death with respect. That's how you do a main character's death (ESPECIALLY JOEL'S) right. Is it cliche? Sure, whatever. But will it make things better? Of course it will! Neil Druckmann is the most delusional person I've encountered since TLoU 2 came out. And you're just as delusional if you agree with his terms.
@@V1R90 You do realize that Joel isn't a good person right ?A complex and interesting character yes but not a good person.He did more damage to the world than anybody in TLOU world could have done.You may counter this by saying that "fireflies are not competent and there was no cure and even if there was they wouldn't use it for good" but that's the information you have as the player.Joel didn't know this,he didn't care about it.The scene when he tells the truth to Ellie ,he's like "making a vaccine would've killed you.I stopped them".He doesn't care if there is a cure.He doesn't even consider it.You threaten Ellie,you die.That's how he sees it.He's not a good person.He didn't die a heroic death,cause he doesn't deserve it really.If the second game was about his redemption maybe,but at the start of the second game,he doesn't seem to be any different if Ellie is involved in a situation.In the final flashback he mentions the fact that he would've done it all over again even if he was given a second chance.
Joel didn’t need a heroic death. This isn’t uncharted. One thing i actually like about this game is how everyone dies so quickly just like that. No comprises. I like that, it’s like real life people don’t get a heroic death because when you’re shot you fucking die lmao. There are so many things to criticize this game about besides Joel’s death. Bad pacing, bad dialogue, bland characters, those elements make this game bad, NOT one character’s death.
@@SAMSARALIVEEEEEE then why tess got heroic death?
Neil lies, Naughty Dog dies.
And although I don't like doing this, it'd be my only relevant qualifications to Neil:
I'm an LGBTQIA+ woman of color and I *_HATE_* TLOU2.
So he can't misattribute hatred for his trashfire game.
I love it. Nothing they hate more than someone who thinks for themselves. Preach
while i don't care about the LGBTQIA+ group i agree calling people homophobes for not liking a game with someone in the LGBTQIA+ group in it. is dumb, that's like saying your racist for not liking gta san addrease, edit: i don't like LGBTQIA+ as a group cause it focuses on sexuality on individual level i don't mind but as a group it just seems creepy kinda like straight people making their own group that just sounds weird
(LGBT) QIA? Don't want to seem rude, but what does that mean and when did the extra letters get added? Genuinely curious, as I only ever heard/knew it as just LGBT.
@@chrisgreig98 I think Queer, Intersex, and Allies? Idk, I only ever say LGBT.
@@chrisgreig98 It doesn't matter, new ones will be added next week, and the following, and so on, and so on. All the letters, execpt S, of course.
He took a seven year old game, made a sequel to kill a beloved character, and have people play Abby (Joel’s killer) more into the game, not making any excuse as to WHY are we playing Abby. He needs to get fired for this kind of crap.
YOU SHOULDN'T NEED AN EXCUSE. So narrow minded, i can see the moment joel died you totally rejected the story on it's entirety. The point was to show the different perspectives of conflict and the cycle of violence. Turns out your "beloved character" caused way more harm than that that he recieved. I feel like im talking to a little child, idk why.
Oh and by the way, fired, really? He needs to be fires? How does 4 million copies sold in 3 days sound? Worth firing? What an idiot
im pissed seeing his name at the start of uncharted 3 and 4. but thats back when they had that great female writer they had to fire right? and thats not cool. firing a female writer? cause she was good ? its like you people wnat to fail!
I want Neil to get help for his trauma, low sales to be the deterrent to keeping Neil on the team, and the companies involved justly punished for their false advertising. The pervasiveness of it all it just astounding and I'd be a bit disgusted if there weren't documents being written up now.
Best case scenario is he gets help and, if able, later contributes to a story that truly honors The Last of Us and the fans of the series. Abby could be a great character, just not like this.
@@velasbloc6762 just because it sold well doesn't make it good. Stop whiteknighting for a game and dev
I think the worst part about this is how they are going to take the hatred from the fans and hold it like a medal. They're proud of this and see our anger as a form of self centered validation used to prove some sort of self serving point about their shallow views on humanity.
It's a smug "I told you so".
I mean that was there goal and they succeeded
Congratulations, they've solved that humans have natural emotional responses to things lol
John Russell 😂😂😂
No one said you had to hate joel. Get over it.
self prohecy
Someone give this man a medal for successfully understanding the pain of every gamer and voicing our agony.
A hell of a lot of people liked this game
@@Ismael-kc3ry I absolutely loved this game.
@@Ismael-kc3ry yeah. a hell of a lot of dumb people liked it because of how it looks.
@@mychem20 that’s one reason. Is that a bad reason by itself? What’s wrong with enjoying a game because it’s essentially unmatched on a technical level
@@Ismael-kc3ry I've heard it's actually quite good, but the story of its development leaves a very bad taste in my mouth
Neil is the guy whose intelligence doesn't improve no matter how much he levels up.
So Aqua, but worse
@@Vonnitto i was thinking this same thing,
@@Vonnitto imagine being more useless than the goddess of toilets.
@@wilsonsanabia4259 hey!!! Aqua is goddess of water and as axis cult I'm offended
troll?
John: "I forgive you for killing Arthur"
*_John: (Goes back home)_*
Actually I wouldn't be surprised because Arthur's motto was "revenge is a fool's game " and John respecting that but yep shooting micah in his fucking face was respecting Arthur too ,the marstons way I guess
Lol yea that actually what Arthur wanted for John all along. Before he died he said revenge is a fool’s game & him killing Micah lead to the events of the original RDR
rithish sivakumar if he didn’t kill micah he would’ve lived past the first game tho
@@3120dd yep and Jack continued the death sentence by killing Ross . Cycle of death shown perfectly.
no u
how does he not understand how people are pissed. like imagine playing ac2 and playing as the guy who killed ezios family, like who in the hell would want to play that game
Lmao it’s like playing Micah and killing John after killing Arthur
Dunno man. I always wanted to be a Templar so maybe...
The word fan is derived from fanatic. The few isolated cranks and weirdos notwithstanding, you can't get people emotionally invested in a franchise and its characters and then intentionally ruin them and NOT get hated for it.
If amateur TH-camrs can come up with a better plot off the tops of their heads, then maybe an indie company can get their hands on a PS4 development kit, make their own fan-made sequel and sell it themselves, copyrights be damned. I know I'd buy a copy.
Nailed it
Is it legal though
You cant just take story and characters it's copyrighted
Neil: I know that punching you will make you angry
*Neil punches audience*
*audience gets mad*
Neil: Why are you mad?
*Neil:* I will then use your own hand to punch you repeatedly.
_[play as Abby for 10 excruciating hours]_
*Neil:* Why are you still mad? Didn't you notice the perspective change?
Neil: Why are you mad? This only a game!
Neil to angry fans: "Hey... wHy So SeRiOuS? ☺️"
Look at his frame that shit wouldn't hurt
People like you have the talent to put into words the criticisms that the rest of us can only feel.
Maybe it's just effort
@@sebastiancespedes5842 yep indeed
Covid-19: I am going to make 2020 a shitty year.
Neil Druckmann: Hold my beer.
You made my 2020
ZOZO
Micah Bell and Abby might be the most hated villains ever
You see Micah Bell is supposed to be an hated character, Rockstar did an perfect job for people making hate him. Naughty Dog wants you to like Abby, yet people really hate her and just an poor written character.Also I like how people make an entire death compilation of just Abby.
What about The guy in Call of Duty that cause the nuclear in Marden warfare 1 and lied.
@@TheMediaStriker YOU DID NOT PLAY AS HIM
@@HelghastStalker Yes i hated him.
Micah bell is hated ina good way
I love how even Ashley Johnson is looking at him like he's dumb and Troy Baker just looks bored.
I don't think that way actually. I find them equally ''guilty'' even though I love them. Did neither they warn nor say their minds when they first read the script? Did neither of them said ''Hey Neil, I respect what you're trying to do but I don't think this is a way to do it.'' Seriously, how could they be so ''fine'' with this? I've been all over their twitter accounts and neither of them speaking their minds WHILE clearly, they should be not okay with the outcome since they are the key reasons what made TLOU beyond great. I'm so disappointed man.
@@BerkayKokcu well if they did, im pretty sure the reply was "im not here cater to you. I write fast and think sjw. So pretty fucking please. With sugar on top. Read the fucking lines."
@@BerkayKokcu >''Hey Neil, I respect what you're trying to do but I don't think this is a way to do it.''
Worked out great for Mark Hamill, didn't it?
@NucleaRaptor I’m starting to see you in almost every reply section. Chill out. Surely you’ve got something better to do..?
@@NucleaRaptor
The thing is, Abby brutally killed a man going on name alone. None of them new what Tommy and Joel looked like, and especially didn't know both Tommys, AND Joels name. There's just too many plotholes. The trailers the past three years made it seem that Dina would be the one Ellie revenged for, and they even intentionally edited trailers to show Joel in scenes where he wasn't inside the second, along with dialogue (Neil admitted this)
Yes they did idiot lmao. In a flashback she said she knew where Tommy lived and they said there was no way to know if his brother was there...
I expected Joel to die, just not in this way, not by making a stupid decision. That's poor character development. Don't make your character make a stupid decision to drive the plot, a decision they never would have made before.
Worse is how it went against his entire character. Joel was always cautious. He was always careful. Yet he trusts random strangers in this game? Even if he got a little soft living with Tommy, it doesnt change the fact that cautious is an integral part of his character. He would never trust anyone he just met.
I never expected Joel to live through the game, but to die in the first two hours and then be forced to play has his killer. so you can build empathy for her, what. you blew your load already there is no way you are going to redeem this character in my eyes, if you played has Abby and built up a connection with her ok then maybe I could accept her killing Joel Maybe. Toss in ND and their misleading advertisement you have a game I have no interest in playing better luck next time.
You mean like how he trusted Henry? Then trusted him again after he left Joel to die? He had his moments where he dropped his guard. Henry could’ve killed them both when Sam turned and he didn’t see that coming. You guys act like you know Joel’s character so well yet you don’t account certain moments. But I do agree that it felt rushed and us having to play Abby. But I didn’t have a problem playing as Abby until you had to fight Ellie. That was what pissed me off.
@@MikeyG671 Except he didnt. He nearly killed Henry in their first encounter if Sam didnt reveal himself. Second time when he found Henry again he wanted to kill him. He trusted them only out of necessity, but was still cautious. Joel wouldnt enter a building where strangers were and he was outnumbered.
You also forget that Joel has been in Jackson for a few years now and has let his guard down, probably assuming the fireflies arent coming after him. And they were pinned in the lodge with a hoard of zombies attacking and no where to go except the mansion where abbys friends were. Stop picking stupid things to be upset with the game. It was a great game.
If we’re expected to buy that bs about Ellie coming around in the end and not killing Abby because she has a moment of clarity, then how come that didn’t extend to Abby’s journey? We can gather that Abby has had a long time to reflect on her revenge and the death of her father. When she finally finds Joel he even saves her from certain death. Where’s Abby’s realization? How come she doesn’t realize that “revenge bad hurrrrr”? Just sloppy lazy writing. The game only plays by its own morals when it’s convenient to do so.
Because her revenge was against a white dude. It's totally different.
(Druckmann is a fanatic Anita Sarkeesian supporter, btw. Might explain some things.)
I'll try and explain how I see it. Abby's revenge was a long time coming. When her father dies four years prior I believe she wants only one thing : kill Joel. As time goes on, she's out of leads and slowly started accepting that she may never get her revenge but then a new lead pops up and she tells Owen "it's a lead, I gotta go through it" or something. She follows the lead with all her friends that also lost something because of Joel, they reach Jackson easily and find Joel really fast. That's it, the revenge she wanted for years was there with nothing to stop her, when would she realize vengeance isn't the way? On the opposite side, you have Ellie who also wants her revenge real bad and to achieve it, see how many people died on either side. Even when Ellie killed Nora and Mel, she started feeling like all that violence and destruction maybe isn't worth it. At first, she probably thought she should finish what she started. (On a side note, all the characters that were with Abby when she killed Joel tells her at some point in the game how traumatized they were about how violent Joel's death was, even if they resented him they still felt "guilty" about how they've done it).
Oncce she reaches Abby at the end, with the boats, she's up against an Abby that is just the shadow of what she was, her hair got cut, she appears way slimer because it's been months since she's been captured and when Ellie finds her she was tied to a pole. She was far from being the monster she was when she killed Joel even in Ellie's eyes. At first Abby only wanted to leave with Lev, she didn't even want a fight despite telling her the last time they met, she didn't want to see Ellie ever again, yet when she appears out of nowhere, she wants nothing to do with Ellie.
TL;DR : Abby's revenge was straight forward and easy, she didn't have any moment to realize what the spiral of revenge does and how many people would die just for one head. Ellie on the other hand saw all of that, she had to make Nora talk by making her breathe spores and then brutally finished her, she killed a pregnant woman aswell, even though those people were part of the revenge, she didn't feel good about any of it. When she faces Abby, one last time, she's not even the Abby that killed Joel, she doesn't seem like the coldblooded, thirsty for blood psycho bitch she was. She lost just as much as Ellie at that point and she decides to end the spiral there by letting her go. That's how I see it.
"i won't kill u for revenge anymore, but in the same time i won't save u as well" - ellie should have left abby to die hanging on the pole and walked off disappeared into the horizon. this shoulld be a good ending.
Don't you remember when Abby finds Ellie literally right after she killed Alice, Mel and Owen yeah the love of her life and spared her and Dina? That's when she realized she had to stop. Remember what she said when Ellie cut the rope off? She said i won't do this. I Won't fight you. She only did because Ellie put a knife on Lev's throat.
i do not agree with youo
Neil: we want fans to hate that moment
Ign: we hated it... 10/10
Battle for Bikini Bottom Remake: 5/10
Mor like... "from that moment on...."
The problem was we were supposed to hate the scene and abby and tey to forgive her but we hated the game and her and now him lmao.
The last of us part 1 is master peace
@@WOLVES2820 That, we already knew
Subverting expectations is a trend that leads to bad writing, it's a now over used practice that needs to end. Unfortunately too many critics fawn over it, so show makers and game devs will do that, at the cost of good writing and satisfying payoffs, to get good reviews. Obviously though the more this happens the less people will trust reviews, and increasingly it will lead to poor sales.
Subversion has become cliche.
These writers forgot that in order to "subvert expectations", you need a good story first.
It is just following in the footsteps of modern art. Create aesthetically disgusting crap, because the "artist" has no real talent, and demand that everyone say it is great because it is not like those stodgy paintings or sculptures done by skilled masters.
subverting expectations is neither a good or bad thing, but a ton of writers seem to have come to the conclusion that it is purely a good thing. You can subvert expectations, but their needs to be something satisfying afterwards and it needs to make sense.
Critics? More like retards.
Awwwwe, he’s sad that people didn’t like his idea? Bo-hoo. Such a man-baby.
SJWs like him love to project themselves onto others.
@@MrRAGE-md5rj you're not wrong they impose their culture on to everyone either through censorship of others views or games
Defend The Gates “cultural appropriation” 🤪
That's very ironic to say considering half of the people are complaining about Joel's death like crybabies
GameOver
it still blows my mind that people didn’t think joel would die.
Anthem, Fallout 76, The Last Of Us 2. Three games I never bought that I've also gotten hours of entertainment out of.
When people pull stuff like this - they do something for a META reason, something entirely external to the game, and then they retcon things refit the world to service their shitty new narrative, what you can see now is that they never liked the character, they never understood the character, they never loved the character. All he was doing was rubbing his hands together at being able to USE a character for his meta-consideration-politics and personal headcanon - all he wanted was the horrible payoff.
I don't know, Druckmann's logic doesn't seem to mean much in his puttering on about the story - because Abby is so completely, casually cruel - the relish she takes and how much she has immersed herself in violence. What a nasty human being.
She comes from the mind of a nasty human being who, more than once, has had murderous thoughts of people (including children) because of violence he saw on tv in the news. Instead of checking himself into therapy he inflicts his trauma on unknowing, paying customers and nonchalantly admits that he was inspired by dolphin abuse or a lynching.
Yup, and he figured he could hide until after all the first week profits came in, which would justify him being given another title to crap all over.
I guess you could say that the "sad dad" fad we were on a few years ago turned into a "shitting on popular characters" fad.
they killed off Joel, then spat on his corpse. Why are people who loved him mad? I wonder why.
the game is about perspective..
i BALLED when Joel died, but its not like he was a Great person or anything. ppl die out of nowhere in the world of The Last Of Us. I wouldnt want joel to have a heros death...... bc hes not a hero
It’s a game dude. in abby’s groups eyes, a guy just came to deliver the girl and just suddenly killed a bunch of their friends including abbys father.
@@rileycockrell9293 I've never heard anything more true, I was also sad when Joel died but he was a very selfish character who didn't want to save the world because he didn't want to let one person die.
Riley Cockrell they pulled a story out of their ass to kill Joel but I could accept that, if he didn’t die in the first 2 hours in the shittiest way, can’t interact with it, Abby didn’t even earn the damn kill. And the ending would’ve been far better if it I ended with the Ellie and Abby fight and everything got resolved there
@@rainphantom7024 ok. I respect that.and I do think the order of events is off. But I think that's the main issue. She didn't "earn" the kill, it was for revenge. But I think the ending was great. It shows that many of the decisions she made we're bad ones and she understands that at the end.
I'm convinced that these psychopathic writers don't understand humans. Whatever the characters feel, we feel because of empathy. When horrible things happen to characters we care about, it's almost like it's being done to us as well. That's why so many people hated Joel's death. We saw it as the developers giving a massive middle finger to the audience for shock value and had the nerve to not deliver a satisfying ending to justify it. Subverting expectations can work, but it has to be satisfying. When you're essentially lighting a franchise on fire, don't be surprised when the fans want to watch you burn to ashes as well.
You can't really talk about empathy if you can't feel what Abby felt. She also lost her father because of Joel.
lol
@@laidbacklaw Empathy isn't given to everyone equally. I can feel bad for her and still hate her because of her actions at the same time. It's not mutually exclusive. Horrible people tend to be broken people.
and she did get her revenge on Joel, Ellie went on a killing spree to waste everyone's time and lose 2 fingers, great stuff! :D
@@laidbacklaw I can't talk about empathy if I can't feel what Abby felt? Get over yourself. You don't have the right to say who can and can't talk about empathy. You're not some kind of moral authority figure so don't act like it.
Neil Druckmann was obviously trying to copy the game of thrones Red Wedding by killing Joel. The thing he forgot to realize is we had seasons and books of getting to know those characters before they were brutally killed off for seemingly no reason and even than the moment had narrative standing. Ever since that God damn episode dropped in 2013 and set the internet on fire. I can't tell you how many people try to copy it in film, tv and books. It's honestly pathetic.
GoT didn't invent the killing of main characters. Your argument is just dumb.
@@leogtt1627 no but George did make main characters dying unexpectedly meta. In anime, tv and video games the hero never dies. He did change that by showing anyone can die.
Neil is the rian Johnson of video games and Anita sarkeesian is Kathleen kennedy of video games plain and simple
@UCzYUvLdAcUGKCzC34OU3WxA Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy were the people who pretty much fucked up Star Wars or at least divided the community
Quill Clock Rian Johnson is a director, best known for his work on Looper or more recently, the shitfest that was The Last Jedi. He deliberately wrote and created a bad film to divide the audience of his movie into two. Kathleen Kennedy is the head of Lucasfilm atm, she was handpicked by Lucas to protect his legacy before he sold everything to Disney. She has a weird and strange obsession with shoving her feminist agenda into Star Wars.
I wouldn't insult Kennedy like that. The problem with kk is that she let RJ do what he wanted. Both KK and JJA were the main producers and didn't think about truly preparing a trilogy.
Neil Druckmann needs to be fired for ruining the Franchise .
He ruined the story. Not the entire game.
@@MarvelousPhilly That's basically ruining the game, bruh.
He ruined Uncharted 4, Amy Hennig's game. And he ruined his own game sequel TLOU2. How much more of a douche can this guy get?! He sucks!
If AMC can fire/demotion Scott Gimple, they can do the same for him if Anita wasn’t the president
@@MarvelousPhilly what is this game without the story ?
A lot of time has passed since the game came out.
And I've had alot of time to think about this game as a whole.
As many have said before, and better, *"it's not that he died, we knew he would. It's a staple of being a father figure in an apocalypse. But, it's how he died. The timing of it. The impact it was meant to have versus how we received it."*
Druckmann owns the narrative so he can do whatever he wants with it. But the problem is that this game doesn't feel like a journey, it feels like a punishment. It feels like every story beat in the game is actively trying to punish us for even playing it. We're getting beat with a lesson that's been done many times over, and better.
List of quick-fire issues:
1. The returning characters are out-of-character for most of the story. The way they are seen here is a far-cry from how they were portrayed in the first game.
2. Joel's death wasn't given any respect. Heck, he didn't need to have final words before death. He just needed to be given the proper setup, and payoff. But in this game there's no setup OR payoff. *"He dies because killing is bad, and revenge is worse."*
3. The new characters in Abby's arc I didn't care about. One of them is pregnant, and goes into combat like a brainlet, the other is a womaniser cheating on his partner [who is pregnant by the way, yes, the same one], another one is a man with no other personality traits other than "sleeps around, asshole, and speaks spanish." Overall, I just didn' care...-- and yet the game wants you to! Crazy.
4. We play as someone that we have no reason to want to, and yet *it's so obvious that Abby's very first flashback onward is just a giant pity post to justify killing Joel.* It's so obvious and manipulative that it's terrible.
ur speaking facts 😪😪😪
I feel like they should have had us play as Joel saving Abby as opposed to Abby running from the infected. They give us the tutorial with him and Tommy getting stuck in the coming storm, and suddenly they see a young girl who needed saving. Sneak in some dialogue how she was looking for someone, whatever. Maybe stretch out the segment with gettin' to the mansion. It would be more shocking then for the player because we would be 'behind the wheel' of playing as Joel, and it would be taken away by them getting revenge on him.
"This game doesn't feel like a journey, it feels like a punishment." You hit the nail on the head with that one. It's like the only way you can win is to not play it, and I'm sure that's not good for a video game.
The first game opens with Joel losing his adorable daughter and it's fucking shocking and it's what sets the entire atmosphere for the rest of the game, I felt the same with Joel dying in TLOU 2, it's that anger with the calm walking and talking that implodes the game into an immersive experience, it happened to me in both games the same way.
Part 2 had some annoying parts like when you're forced to torture Nora and when you're forced to beat undead Abby in the end. Also the secondary characters were very good in their roles
@@cyberscapegaming but with that point of view ur confessing u wanted a fanservice story, and thats not how this works. Its like saying "why would u see a sad movie or a scary movie? you will cry and get scared, those movies are pointless"
This game is not here to please the players, it makes u feel a bunch of emotions during the journey,
the game prioritizes reflection over satisfaction.
I actually struggled to finish this game. I literally got bored about 10 hours in because there really wasn’t any excitement to the story to drive me. Until they theater, which actually caught my interest, I was really thinking about giving up. I only finished the game so that I wouldn’t feel like I completely wasted $60. I finished the story...... It had some moments, but I’ll probably never play it again.
I kinda wanna play again in new game plus just for the Ellie parts, they were a lot of fun. But yeah you’re right when you reach Abby’s part the gameplay becomes so damn boring.
I’ve been messing with grounded and it’s pretty hard. You can also do funny settings like one hit melee kills, infinite ammo etc. I wasn’t a fan of the story either.
Bad thing is they wouldn't refund anyone
I quit 30 mins into the Abby part after I googled how long you play as her and it said 10 hours and I was like no I don’t give a fuck about this bitch I’m watching the ending on TH-cam
@@Mypenisissmallbut I hear ya. I don’t blame you. I just needed to finish it just I didn’t feel like I wasted my money anymore than I already did. She did have some cool set pieces, but I still hated her character
John Marston: *kills 50 people to get to Micah*
Micah: "Hello, Scarface. You here to kill me?"
John: "No, I forgive you because revenge and violence is wrong."
Wait. That's not what happened because Rockstar knows what they're doing.
Except you forgot to mention in this hypothetical scenario that along the way every bit of violence inflicted changes John. The intense anger he felt in the beginning begins to simmer down and with every kill he feels more and more remorse and disgust. And it's noticeable the toll it takes. Then at the end the theme we noticed all along shines. That revenge is just a never ending cycle and John decides to stop it.
And back to the real world, Arthur does feel disgust towards the gang as time goes on and wants to desperately leave. But can't because it's all he knows and feels loyalty to his only family, so he continues committing acts he doesn't believe in.
If you didn't feel retarded enough here's another thing to remember. The many enemies killed are for gameplay purposes. In reality Ellie only killed less enemies than I have fingers on her path to Abby. Also straight up avoid all the enemies. In the first LOU Joel and Ellie technically only killed like less than 10 humans or something if you tried to avoid killing as many humans as possible.
@@luisprado7107 ok boomer
@@MilkBags69 I just got epicly owned by a highschool freshman, I don't know what I was thinking typing up my original comment.
@@luisprado7107 Props for your respone, made me giggle. I agree with most of your original comment but i strongly disagree with this: " The many enemies killed are for gameplay purposes. In reality Ellie only killed less enemies than I have fingers on her path to Abby. ". It is a game, not a movie. Everthing that happens during gameplay is part of Ellie's and Abby's journey. Killing countless Wolves, Scares and Rattlers it part of that.
@@luisprado7107 as a human u kno killing isnt normal blah blah and this people are stone cold (mcs) killing selfishly for their emotion and survivability. But still joel was the fan favourite you cant expect people to just accept that he died? saying that peeps should mature and stop babbling about it. dying in a cool way by the revenge of another person would be damage control but way better. going against the flow wouldnt always land agood reaction
Jeesus he lays his stupidity all out there for people to see..and yet...the denial is so strong
Damn someones mad about a videogame... Meanwhile me and many others loved this game and it’s story. Get fucked snowflake.
You can at least give him credit for his unabashed stupidity. >.>
Actually, that's a good point - Joel's end... has no effect on Abby ... it gets mentioned a few times by her friends, but she just rubs it of , like whatever ... when you start playing as Abby, she just moves on to her next mission as if nothing particularly life changing happened ... no conflict, no struggle, nothing... In the beginning she is shown to be obsessed with finding Joel, to a suicidal degree. She then takes her time with fulfilling her revenge, in a brutal fashion... Fast forwarded to Seattle and she is just munching kebabs and fighting seraphites without a care in the world. As if this whole "you killed my father, prepare to die" sequence was added as a last minute tie in, so she can just high jack the story.
Nick Dare yeah, of course she rubbed it off, cuz she is not the other people. Everyone is different, including the people in the game and they react differently to to different things. I can’t believe that so many people including you completely missed the point of this story and how good it actually is just because it’s not the Disney ferry tale they wanted.
@@jacopom2778 The first game wasn't a Disney ferry tale either... part 2 is mostly held to the standard of part 1, and people like me are just disappointed cos it doesn't hold up to the original. All the points on violence, revenge, diversity, questionable morals that part 2 tried to make were already successfully made in part 1. But please tell me what major point I'm missing, cos so far it feels like part 2 was just a over hyped cash grab. It could have been just reduced to a series of DLC to the ps4 remaster edition, just showing Ellie's and Abbie's flashbacks, and fans would have happily accepted that.
She clearly fucking didnt rub it off, if you paid attention to her interactions with Lev you'd see that.
And by the way, Joel rubbed off Sam and his little brothers death.
If that was actually supposed to be a plot point they could have ripped off Princess Bride amd made it work.
She looks for this guy she doesn't know the name of for years in order to get revenge, and when she finds out it's him she kills him. Add some conflict because they worked together before she finds out.
The real tragedy is all the work that the actually talented employees at ND had to pour into this polished turd. All so Druckman could deliver an incredibly tired and ham-fisted REVENGE BAD MMKAY story. What a waste.
I'm watching this before they try to take it down.
I always love how a legal matter serious as a copyright enforcement can be treated like it wasn't a felony to file false reports.
Very odd how big companies can side step the technically legal aspects of their product.
Since Neil used fake cut scenes and false advertisements, designed to fool people into buying the game thinking Joel was going to be in it, isn't that classified as fraudulent and illegal? Shouldn't Druckmann be getting slapped with Federal Trade Commission red tape by now?
It's illegal for a business to initiate the use of false, misleading, or unproven information to advertise products which is what happened here with this game.
This game is like seeing someone kill your father and then listening to the killer's reasons to why he killed your father.
- Hey, I had to kill your father, he did this and that. You know.. I suffered too, so.. yeah
- Ohhh damn, I understand man. Thank you for killing my father, I'll let you go now.
Yes it's exactly like that. Ellie thanks her and sends her on her way merrily. Forget the days of context in-between and all that transpires, and that they nearly beat each other to death, that's not important when making snide jokes. Human interactions are as black and white as that. Every one who loses a loved one to someone else has a hatred that can never be quelled until they exact revenge, upon which all will be right again in their universe and life can resume just like it did before.
Literally though never a truer word has been spoken
This game is all about consequences. The acts of joel Lead out into The last of us 2. EllieWanted to get revenge no matter what, but as time progresses, and she remembers joel time after time, the Joel that Lied to her and killed everyone for selfish reasons. If Ellie had killed Abby, she would had just become what Joel Was in the moment Of the hospital, a selfish killer, Therefore, she would become what She hates in joel this whole time. All for revenge. And what was the consequence of revenge? She lost everyone, Dina, Tommy, jesse, and even her fingers. These are the consequences of the game. That is what the last of us 2 is.
@Peek- At -Ch'you for a game that has infected Humans and Giants Bloater boss battles, idk if you can really compare it with Realistic stuff. Well, it's a matter of opinnion, really. People hate the game for not having joel. People hate the game for the ending being weird, and i Can see that. The game is far from perfect, but i liked it for the poetic aspect. It's really a matter of opinnion.
Molina か you said it man. I can’t believe people can’t understand the story like this. It was executed well that we thought Abby was just a pure villain, but then we see the softer side of Abby. I love Joel but just watching from the 1st trailer I already accepted that he’d be dead at some point. Heck even the opening credits did not even show Troy Baker as the main character.
Druckmann was good when he was on a leash. When he got too much power, his nihilistic obsessions went way over the top.
Every writer even the best need someone to filter their best and worst ideas.
too many flashbacks n that ending was quite the copout if u ask me. Ellie literally kills Abby's group round Seattle jus to let her go? no sense at all.
She was mad and she wasn’t getting over Joel’s death. The revenge of Abby and Elie both cost them a lot and they both realized it cost them a lot of stuff. Abby lost her friends and Elie lost her fingers, her friend Jesse, and Dina.
Very true. Not killing Abby makes the whole story pointless. Either kill Abby and lose everyone around you, or don't kill Abby and still have the people around you. Not killing Abby AND losing everything else gives ZERO payoff and makes it an incredibly poorly written game.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 poorly written because it doesn’t have a happy ending? There is payoff for her actions, just not in a positive way. Everything Ellie does comes back to bite her.
@@Ismael-kc3ry You completely missed it. It actually IS a happy ending for Abby, which is why it doesn't make sense. Abby has no consequences for her actions. Nothing bad happens to her. Even when she gets captured she is just set free by Ellie and let to go live a comfortable life after beating her senseless, lol. Next time, read the comment carefully.
It's a tragic story that in my opinion captures the feeling of a Greek tragedy especially in antigone where creon learns from his mistakes after losing everyone he loves.
Druckman: "I want to do a sequel to TLOU."
Joel: "You'd just ruin it."
I’d be down for someone to make a TLoU quality cutscene where Joel gets his revenge on Neil.
Cuckman: Hold my cosmo...
Druckman: “No, I'm gonna ruin you! And your Ellie! And bring some babochłop psychokiller to replace you, so audience would like her instead. That will rock.”
***
Audience: [Producing films on YT of how to properly finish off Druckman's Abby and watching it with sadistic joy.]
@@megajennybenny what have you been doing with your great imagination? Do you wanna know the funniest thing though the scenario for this game was actually supposed to be used in the first game with tess as the main villain and coming after joel and ellie for revenge but apparently Neil Cuckmann called to "unrealistic" Haha funny that. Just take your SJW shit and go back to your fantasies man.