Lush trying to be extra! Their own patent doesn't work. I think they leave it there hoping small companies will waste their time trying to figure it out! Either that or they misprinted in their application to the patent office. Who really knows??? Jill
I feel like they maybe couldn’t do their actual recipe and did a patent anyway to discourage people from making these bars. I really enjoyed this content! Thanks for all you do and you can put me down for chipping in for your bail money 😂
Chantine, your a REBEL, lol! However, you have a cause....giving us intelligent well thought out recipes! I loved this experiment, it was a good one! LUSH and their patents is ridiculous! I pretty much glance, change some insignificant part that doesn't matter. What I never do is advertise their fragrances, not even as a dupe. I totally rename it. I think that draws Lush's ire more than anything. And if your advertising , say a Rose Jam Bubble Wand, your asking for problems! Call it Rosey Bubbling Lollipop and your good! This is an example, I have no such product. You have to just work through all the obstacles if you want to make Lush-like products. Personally I feel they are over rated! We as small businesses can and do make better products! I think customers know this as well. Lush doesn't take time to listen to a few complaints about a product. We do, immediately. If 6 people text Lush and say something caused an allergic rash, you'll get a quick apology if your lucky. If we hear that we apologize, refund and go back to the drawing board and fix the issue! Therefore we are better than the big brands and customers know this too! I love having that quality control with our products. Jill Gross
This was really cool. I did a deep dive into Lush a year ago and knew carbonate is part of their patented formula for the bubble bars. I didn’t know they aren’t using it in their bars. Very interesting…Thanks once again for sharing these lovely experiments with us. Have a beautiful evening.
Just hanging out and saying HI! Also had to share that I had the Judas Priest song going through my head the whole time! Thanks for that! Have a fantastic weekend!!
I'm freezing the frame at 3:13 and wondering what material you were actually supplied with. I'd wanted to know what hydration state your sodium carbonate was in, but when I looked up that CAS number, it was for *calcium* carbonate! The problem with making fizzies is having enough water to incorporate and mold the stuff yet keep the acid and carbonate or bicarbonate from reacting. Since the Lush formula you showed included at least one liquid oil and the ingredients did not disclose water, I wondered whether they just assumed it all evaporated or whether they mixed them anhydrously. But most surfactants, like the ones used in this, are hard to obtain other than in water solution. If they started with anhydrous sodium carbonate, they might've been able to use it as a drying agent. It would heat up considerably during process as it hydrated. The way to test the hydration state of the Na2CO3 would be to cook and re-weigh a sample. I've never been a fan of combination fizz and foam tablets or grains, because the efficient way to produce foam on the bath would aerate it a lot and lose the fizz, and the most enjoyable way to use the fizz would be to drop it in the bath while you're in it, which would give it no opportunity to foam. So I think foaming preparations ("bubble bath" in *that* sense of "bubble") should be administered separately from fizzing (effervescent -- *that* kind of "bubble") ones for efficiency's sake. On my way to US pat. 5,336,446 (don't worry, long since expired) I made a tablet using disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate powder and a spray-dried cocamidopropyl betaine that Henkel sent out experimenally. Cocamidopropyl betaine is so gummy and hygroscopic that they never did commercialize that form of it, and I doubt Lush is spray-drying their own surfactants to do such a thing. In my experimentation I too made up someone else's patented composition for comparison testing, but that's because it wasn't commercially available, so no damages from the technical infringement. (When generic drugs are being developed, they actually go out and obtain commercial product to test it against the name brand -- there's actually subterfuge sometimes in obtaining it in time to have the copycat ready as the patent expires!) Are you sure the Lush patent you copied is still in force?
Those weren't much in the way of thrilling to me either. You're absolutely right - no wonder the Big L doesn't use their own patented recipe - I wouldn't either.
OMG Mrs S&C....You just saved my sanity effortlessly! I have about 40 bottles of Cierra Cndl fragrances that I haven't used yet because of that dang red cap! 🤣🤣🤣 Looks like you just put a hole in it. This also gives more control in the pour...genius!
I have a spoon with a pointy tip on the handle and I use it to gently pry the cap off... Haven't spilled yet and have opened at least 15. Though stabbing does sound more productive 😂
Placed my first order today and an very excited to try your shampoo and conditioner bars! I only wash my hair once a week but I have been known to use only conditioner once or twice between washings so maybe I should have doubled the conditioner. 🤔 Oh well, I'll figure it out as I go. Really impressed with all the soapy things you have on your website and I'm sure I'll be back.
I am still astounded that S & C doesn't have a gajillion followers yet! {Yes, I'm an OG follower even though I'm more of a lurker than a commenter}. Still loving all the videos!!!
Thanks for this. Can you clarify something for me? According to the Puracy website and other sources, Coco Betaine is actually a different ingredient than Cocamidopropyl Betaine, which has a short name of CAP-B. I've seen it marked - potentially mis-marked? - on several sites, creating some confusion for me. Thanks for any clarity you can provide since I know you research this stuff!
They are indeed distinct substances. You can obtain coco-betaine at 45% actives, but cocamidopropyl betaine only at 30% actives (35% solids), each in water plus preservative. The alkamidopropyl betaines are a little superior to the direct alkyl betaines in several aspects of performance, plus there tends to be more amine leftover (hence fishy smell) in the alkyl betaine. Of the alkamidopropyl betaines, cocamidopropyl is most easily obtained. However, I've found you can get a better total profile of foaming and skin softening by mixing lauramidopropyl and palmitamidopropyl betaine -- if you can get the latter at all. Soapmakers don't use coconut oil exclusively in making soap, so why shouldn't makers of shampoo, bath foam, and other toiletries mix different fatty chain lengths for mildness and other properties as well? It seems that as soon as they started making shampoos and bubble baths from other surfactants, everybody concentrated on grease cutting and fluffiness with coco- and (even more extremely) lauryl types, and forgot how to mix different properties as they had when making soap! It's not like they *never* use them in such products -- Neutrogena early on made Rainbath with oleyl surfactant -- but here it's the 21st Century and they're still woefully underutilized IMO.
Hey! This has nothing to do with lush, when your making whipped soap or sugar scrub what is the difference using just potassium hydroxide or using dual lye for it?
I have not tried to make bubble bars or bath bombs yet, but are bubble bars supposed to be a one and done use? You were breaking off pieces and making bubbles, but not sure if that was for testing purposes only. What is the difference between bubble bars and bath bombs?
They can prove infringement but not damages. The purpose of the patent system is to facilitate experimentation and advancement in the art, not inhibit it. There's no point in the description part of the disclosure if people can't use it to learn from.
Oh, these recipes were pretty hosed from jump; sifting would have helped with the lumps but nothing would have helped with the dryness. Except, you know, liquid.
Subscription problem!!! I subscribed-the middle tier-and I cannot access anything other than normal videos. Is there a different address I should use? I don’t understand. I started to unsubscribe since I didn’t even know where to go to ask this question. I’m a computer engineer, so if I’m having trouble, I would bet that other people are having problems, too. I thought it would be like Patreon-but it’s most definitely not. Can someone help me? I don’t want to unsubscribe, but why pay if I can’t access the content??
I just ran a few tests on alt accounts - the members only messages showed up in all instances as soon as I confirmed payment, so there’s that. You can always email me and I can get you sorted as well! Chantine@soapandclay.com
@@MrsSoapAndClay ok-I’m emailing-I have a screen shot thanking me for subscribing that I’ll attach, so …don’t know what I’m missing-however, I’m on an iPhone-does that matter? I can jump on my laptop and check that out…
Hah, love it, you proved they had made a monumental mistake lol. It was me that mentioned the sodium carb v's the sodium bicarb discrepancy (possibly others did too) and I'm so glad I did now. Thanks so much for this video, it was really helpful.
Well this was fun, but seriously why sodium carb? I did not have a good time with that.
Hi!
Lush trying to be extra! Their own patent doesn't work. I think they leave it there hoping small companies will waste their time trying to figure it out! Either that or they misprinted in their application to the patent office. Who really knows???
Jill
I think they put Bi carb to throw people off but you with your chemistry skills showed others what they did. Way to go!
I feel like they maybe couldn’t do their actual recipe and did a patent anyway to discourage people from making these bars. I really enjoyed this content! Thanks for all you do and you can put me down for chipping in for your bail money 😂
Chantine, your a REBEL, lol! However, you have a cause....giving us intelligent well thought out recipes! I loved this experiment, it was a good one! LUSH and their patents is ridiculous! I pretty much glance, change some insignificant part that doesn't matter. What I never do is advertise their fragrances, not even as a dupe. I totally rename it. I think that draws Lush's ire more than anything. And if your advertising , say a Rose Jam Bubble Wand, your asking for problems! Call it Rosey Bubbling Lollipop and your good! This is an example, I have no such product. You have to just work through all the obstacles if you want to make Lush-like products. Personally I feel they are over rated! We as small businesses can and do make better products! I think customers know this as well. Lush doesn't take time to listen to a few complaints about a product. We do, immediately. If 6 people text Lush and say something caused an allergic rash, you'll get a quick apology if your lucky. If we hear that we apologize, refund and go back to the drawing board and fix the issue! Therefore we are better than the big brands and customers know this too! I love having that quality control with our products.
Jill Gross
So true - we definitely pay loads of attention to customer service, for good or for ill.
Your sense of humor is awesome.
Hi, thankyou for this video. Very helpful.
Maybe someone made a whoopsie when they wrote the ingredients for the patent? we will pay for your bail or come and visit you daily 😆🤣love you ❤
Ha - visit and bring snacks! 😂
Thank you for your time experimenting with the big "L" patent.
I hope they don't give you any problems Mrs S&C.
This was really cool. I did a deep dive into Lush a year ago and knew carbonate is part of their patented formula for the bubble bars. I didn’t know they aren’t using it in their bars. Very interesting…Thanks once again for sharing these lovely experiments with us. Have a beautiful evening.
I know! I was surprised when I saw their ingredients list on the site!
Just hanging out and saying HI! Also had to share that I had the Judas Priest song going through my head the whole time! Thanks for that! Have a fantastic weekend!!
Ha!
“Breaking the law breaking the law….” 🤪
The chanel I look forward to daily! Thanks as always.
That shirt though 😍
I'm freezing the frame at 3:13 and wondering what material you were actually supplied with. I'd wanted to know what hydration state your sodium carbonate was in, but when I looked up that CAS number, it was for *calcium* carbonate!
The problem with making fizzies is having enough water to incorporate and mold the stuff yet keep the acid and carbonate or bicarbonate from reacting. Since the Lush formula you showed included at least one liquid oil and the ingredients did not disclose water, I wondered whether they just assumed it all evaporated or whether they mixed them anhydrously. But most surfactants, like the ones used in this, are hard to obtain other than in water solution. If they started with anhydrous sodium carbonate, they might've been able to use it as a drying agent. It would heat up considerably during process as it hydrated. The way to test the hydration state of the Na2CO3 would be to cook and re-weigh a sample.
I've never been a fan of combination fizz and foam tablets or grains, because the efficient way to produce foam on the bath would aerate it a lot and lose the fizz, and the most enjoyable way to use the fizz would be to drop it in the bath while you're in it, which would give it no opportunity to foam. So I think foaming preparations ("bubble bath" in *that* sense of "bubble") should be administered separately from fizzing (effervescent -- *that* kind of "bubble") ones for efficiency's sake.
On my way to US pat. 5,336,446 (don't worry, long since expired) I made a tablet using disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate powder and a spray-dried cocamidopropyl betaine that Henkel sent out experimenally. Cocamidopropyl betaine is so gummy and hygroscopic that they never did commercialize that form of it, and I doubt Lush is spray-drying their own surfactants to do such a thing. In my experimentation I too made up someone else's patented composition for comparison testing, but that's because it wasn't commercially available, so no damages from the technical infringement. (When generic drugs are being developed, they actually go out and obtain commercial product to test it against the name brand -- there's actually subterfuge sometimes in obtaining it in time to have the copycat ready as the patent expires!) Are you sure the Lush patent you copied is still in force?
Those weren't much in the way of thrilling to me either. You're absolutely right - no wonder the Big L doesn't use their own patented recipe - I wouldn't either.
OMG Mrs S&C....You just saved my sanity effortlessly! I have about 40 bottles of Cierra Cndl fragrances that I haven't used yet because of that dang red cap! 🤣🤣🤣 Looks like you just put a hole in it. This also gives more control in the pour...genius!
Just stab it! 😂🤪
@@MrsSoapAndClay 🤣🤣🤣🤣Yeeessssss!!!! Thank you!
I have a spoon with a pointy tip on the handle and I use it to gently pry the cap off... Haven't spilled yet and have opened at least 15. Though stabbing does sound more productive 😂
@@Abutado Thank you! Yea...stabbing serves multiple purposes when your new formulation gets frustrating 🤣🤣🤣
Lol I use an old grapefruit spoon.
Okay, you’re fun. New subscriber and I’m just really enjoying your videos.❤️
Placed my first order today and an very excited to try your shampoo and conditioner bars! I only wash my hair once a week but I have been known to use only conditioner once or twice between washings so maybe I should have doubled the conditioner. 🤔 Oh well, I'll figure it out as I go. Really impressed with all the soapy things you have on your website and I'm sure I'll be back.
I’m so excited for you to try the soapy things!
Generally, the conditioner bar lasts longer anyway… at least it does for me. You’ll have to let me know if it ends up being that way for you too.
I am still astounded that S & C doesn't have a gajillion followers yet! {Yes, I'm an OG follower even though I'm more of a lurker than a commenter}. Still loving all the videos!!!
thank you! for doing this experiment! to teach us a lesson!! lol
Thanks for this. Can you clarify something for me? According to the Puracy website and other sources, Coco Betaine is actually a different ingredient than Cocamidopropyl Betaine, which has a short name of CAP-B. I've seen it marked - potentially mis-marked? - on several sites, creating some confusion for me. Thanks for any clarity you can provide since I know you research this stuff!
They are indeed distinct substances. You can obtain coco-betaine at 45% actives, but cocamidopropyl betaine only at 30% actives (35% solids), each in water plus preservative. The alkamidopropyl betaines are a little superior to the direct alkyl betaines in several aspects of performance, plus there tends to be more amine leftover (hence fishy smell) in the alkyl betaine.
Of the alkamidopropyl betaines, cocamidopropyl is most easily obtained. However, I've found you can get a better total profile of foaming and skin softening by mixing lauramidopropyl and palmitamidopropyl betaine -- if you can get the latter at all. Soapmakers don't use coconut oil exclusively in making soap, so why shouldn't makers of shampoo, bath foam, and other toiletries mix different fatty chain lengths for mildness and other properties as well? It seems that as soon as they started making shampoos and bubble baths from other surfactants, everybody concentrated on grease cutting and fluffiness with coco- and (even more extremely) lauryl types, and forgot how to mix different properties as they had when making soap! It's not like they *never* use them in such products -- Neutrogena early on made Rainbath with oleyl surfactant -- but here it's the 21st Century and they're still woefully underutilized IMO.
Haha!! Straight to jail 🤣😂
Jail!!!
Love YOU
Hey! This has nothing to do with lush, when your making whipped soap or sugar scrub what is the difference using just potassium hydroxide or using dual lye for it?
I declare bankruptcyyyyyy
😄😄😄😄
I would use witch hazel or rubbing alcohol instead of bubble up for binder.
Witch hazel and rubbing alcohol both dry out bombs and bars; I think that would make matters much, much worse. 😂
That would be great if they adequately incorporated the dry ingredients, but apparently they leave it crumbly.
I guess they were trying to be different and it bombed lol
I have not tried to make bubble bars or bath bombs yet, but are bubble bars supposed to be a one and done use? You were breaking off pieces and making bubbles, but not sure if that was for testing purposes only. What is the difference between bubble bars and bath bombs?
It depends on the size of the bubble bar - many of the larger ones are meant for multiple uses
They can’t come after you if you’re not selling it anyways, right?
That’s true!
They can prove infringement but not damages. The purpose of the patent system is to facilitate experimentation and advancement in the art, not inhibit it. There's no point in the description part of the disclosure if people can't use it to learn from.
jail? do we need to get a thing going for bail money? oii eww why do they do that! I like your stuff so much better than their stuff yick!
Just visit me and sneak in snacks. 🤪
If you sifted your ingredients and used a hand mixer I think it would be easier.
Oh, these recipes were pretty hosed from jump; sifting would have helped with the lumps but nothing would have helped with the dryness. Except, you know, liquid.
Subscription problem!!!
I subscribed-the middle tier-and I cannot access anything other than normal videos.
Is there a different address I should use? I don’t understand. I started to unsubscribe since I didn’t even know where to go to ask this question. I’m a computer engineer, so if I’m having trouble, I would bet that other people are having problems, too.
I thought it would be like Patreon-but it’s most definitely not. Can someone help me? I don’t want to unsubscribe, but why pay if I can’t access the content??
There is a members only post that shows up in the community tab when you join. That has the link to the discord.
I just ran a few tests on alt accounts - the members only messages showed up in all instances as soon as I confirmed payment, so there’s that. You can always email me and I can get you sorted as well!
Chantine@soapandclay.com
@@MrsSoapAndClay ok-I’m emailing-I have a screen shot thanking me for subscribing that I’ll attach, so …don’t know what I’m missing-however, I’m on an iPhone-does that matter? I can jump on my laptop and check that out…
Hah, love it, you proved they had made a monumental mistake lol. It was me that mentioned the sodium carb v's the sodium bicarb discrepancy (possibly others did too) and I'm so glad I did now. Thanks so much for this video, it was really helpful.