EXACTLY what I needed to know- yours is the only resource I could find testing heat damage and repair on hard wax, specifically Osmo. Really appreciate your no-waffle style. Thank you SO MUCH!! 👍
Same here. My daughter really likes to paint on my table and of course, somethimes things go wrong... Its a big table and i really dont want to renew it every year
I don't know where the trend came from to wipe/spread on hardwax oil and wipe it straight off, but it goes against the directions on the tin. The directions say, and what I've always followed, are to use a roller (or paintbrush) to apply it thinly, and leave to dry. 2 coats. Using this method, Ive left water under a cup for hours and there are absolutely no marks whatsoever on the wood. There are videos that also say that hardwax oils don't leave a film on the wood. Wrong, they do, they leave a durable wax coating on top and soaked into the wood, unless of course you wipe it off.... I'd like to see this test done again, only using a roller to apply the hardwax oils. What hardwax oils are not great at is permanent marker. These leave a mark, but I've found you can use bleach to remove it. I use Shelley's mould remover, spray it on, leave it 10 mins, then wipe off and the mark is gone
For the marker test it would be instructive to use an alcohol based wipe (like we bought during the pandemic). The alcohol will definitely fix the marker, but how the finishes hold up from the alcohol is the question.
Agreed. My is a teacher and learned a very long time ago that basic hand sanitizer will instantly remove even sharpie's off desks with almost no effort. What it does to the finish? I do not know.
If the poly is fully cured, yes it will. In fact fully cured poly will hold up to a quick wipe of lacquer thinner - which would also remove the sharpy. The waxes wouldn't stand a chance.
Great video. Same results I used to have using Rubio. ( 5 year old and twin 3 year olds so it gets abused!). My table is walnut. 6 months ago I used the ceramic coat from black Forrest. So far not a single mark or marker stain has been left.
One thing to add with hard wax’s is that a lot of makers are adding a ceramic finish to the piece. Would be interesting to see the same test with this added layer of protection. Loved the video!
Interesting… I would wonder how it changes the sheen of the finish and if it makes the “repairability” worse than the plain hardwax. If it gets shinier and is hard to repair, you might as well just put satin finish poly 🤷♂️
@@louisolivierfortin according to carbon method's website, it will increase the sheen a bit, but supposedly not affect the feel. I'll finish some scrap when i finish my table and do all Billy's tests on that and see if there's a difference.
So many woods with so many characteristics used in infinite projects requiring differing performances. Finish selection, usage, pro’s and con’s it’s mind-boggling. Having a finish that is easy to repair without changing color or sheen while making an invisible repair is an art and a challenge. Thanks for the information.
TO AVOID WATER MARKS ON HARD WAX OIL FINISH; slightly raise the grain and LIGHTLY SAND before adding the first coat. After 1st coat, again lightly mist with water and allow to remain wet for a few minutes, then again LIGHTLY SAND the grain back down before putting the final coat of finish. I've never had a water mark on any piece of furniture I've finished this way. share this advice
One thing to note (although you prob are aware!) that the Tanin remover and degreaser agent that rubio do- would have removed all but the burn mark on the rubio piece. They sometimes work with other finishes also I’ve found. Keep them in my arsenal at all times!
One thing to note about water marks/rings with an oil or hardwax finish, is that many times it evaporates after a few days. I've noticed this and was happily surprised! If you came back to your test boards a few days later, I'm sure the same would've happened.
My go to finish is Osmo Poly-x satin over a wash coat of shellac. Its very pleasing to the touch and eye. But not at all a durable finish. I dislike the look and feel of Poly but will apply Satin Poly to specific areas where I expect moisture may be an issue, such as the top of a bookcase where a potted plant may be placed.
Poly is the best finish for any surface that gets daily use and I use satin with a 300 grit sanding sponge after final coat is cured for a less film appearance.
Thank you for doing the testing, it was remarkably interesting and informative. There are two tests, although essentially the same, they are a plate of hot food and a hot drink. These seem to be a killer on polyurethane, but I would like to see how the wax finishes hold up.
I don't mind osmo when I'm looking to add a wet look without the need for protection. But when I truly want to seal the wood to protect from water, I'll continue to use polys or lacquers.
Interesting video. Lately, I've been using several coats of shellac with a liberal coat of Johnsons paste wax on top. I realize it is not as durable as polyurethane or maybe even Osmo. But I on l y use it on projects that I figure won't be subject to abuse. Clocks, gift boxes and the like. I really like the "soft" feel the paste wax gives the wood. Thanks for the test and insight.
Great comparison! I have not used hard wax finishes yet. I am more familiar with Tung oil blends, polyurethane and polyurethane spray finish (which I like). I will be trying the Rubio or Osmo soon. I am most interested in overall looking and the ability to touch up.
Well, for the candle wax on the Osmo piece, I would have hit it with a heat gun and a micro fiber cloth first. Candle wax is generally very soft. Most waxes do not provide good water protection. Mostly I make lots of wood bowls.
Watched this for a second time. One thing about open grained woods like walnut, if the pores are left open, stuff, like candle wax can and will get into the pores. On the poly piece you did, there was some wax visible on one pore. Couldn't really see on the Rubio sample. You can fill the pores if you wet sand with the finish, and use a fine grit, like 400 or so. The resulting slurry will fill the holes so wax and other stuff can't get into it. I use that on my wood bowls I make, but use walnut oil instead of any kind of finish with solvents and driers in them.
this matches my experience with all of these finishes - Monocoat is the easiest to repair by a decent margin. Osmo PolyX isn't bad either. The only luck I've had repairing polyurethane finishes is doing an even sanding back and applying finish to the entire piece. Partial refinishing doesn't work (at least for me) with poly finishes - I need to go back a full layer or two and then apply a few new coats. With satin poly finishes this can be a little tricky if the flattener wasn't evenly distributed between each layer (remember: stir your satin poly before use), as it's easy to see the difference between the layers. I've had some luck applying a few coats of gloss and then a final coat or two of satin to avoid this, but it's a lot of tedius, noxious work any way cut it. So I tend to stick with hard oil wax finishes these days. I like Tried and True's lineup quite a lot. Though it does have a tendency to feel dry after a while and likes to be recoated
Osmo is my favorite finish. It looks great and provides enough protection for most projects. If I'm making a table I might opt for Arm-R-Seal unless I want to be diligent about using coasters.
Very solid testing. I find oil+wax to be great finishes on things that are either not gonna get a ton of abuse or they are mine and I can reapply. Poly is a more protective finish, but it is much harder to reapply and keep the look, especially on thick applications. For me, it really comes down to huffing poly fumes in the basement vs not.
Osmo needs to sit for 24 hours before you put a second coat and another 24 for the 3rd coat. I believe it needs curating time before anything is put on top of it. After that, the hard wax becomes extra hard. Following the directions is important. Something to think about. I liked your test.
Great review. I have some walnut scrap I made into a some coasters to use on my WFH desk. They are finished in Watco danish oil and never have had water rings. But YMMV.
i've been experimenting with different finishes but i'm leaning towards wax if i make a peice of furniture or something for someone else, the reason is wax is a finish anyone can do and it doesn't have to be an expensive or time consuming repair. some finshes are great if its me but i'm going to assume the average person wants something thats easy to maintain, hide scratches, etc.
For sharpie, you can write over the marks with a dry erase marker and then wipe it up. It does cleanup better. Worth trying if the marks are not dramatic. It’s not necessarily 100%, but may be enough to avoid refinishing.
I'd retouch these differently. I would sand the marks out on the poly then do two coats, sanding between. Maybe a third to even out the sheen. It's not repaired until the sheen is even. With the hard waxes, online people say you can sand them then refinish with no difference in color or sheen. Again, I'd go farther than you did and try that- is there really no difference in color?
Great video since im currently trying to decide between the 2. My first dining table i finished in Fiddes hard wax oil which looked great, BUT we spilled food oil on it (basil pesto!) and it stained badly. I would love to have seen you test some food spill on the 2 samples so i could see if the same happens with osmo. Also, would love to see you put a hot mug or plate on both surfaces. Anyone else tried?
In my experience lacquer is soft and wears quickly. I basically vowed to never use it again after getting bad results on a guitar I made. Not durable enough and not that easy to repair only to have it wear out again.
Another consideration would be alkyd which I so far have good experience with, although that seems to be more popular here in Europe than in the Americas
I’d like to know what finish is on the countertop you are using. I like the light color and it is likely a hard finish. I have a birch butcher block countertop that needs to be finished. Thank you.
How long did you let the hardwax cure? I have people do this same ice water test on other brands of hardwax oil and they came up with totally different results...
Yeah, I've found that water sitting a good while on a hard wax will make a ring, more so than on poly, but they have always dried out to invisible after a few days. He might not have given it enough dry time before sanding it out.
I have never had an issue with water resistance on my hard waxed furniture. The problem with TH-cam tests and reviews is that they don’t always mimic the real world and test all the important qualities. Stats is data, but it’s only data.
I enjoyed this vid as I do similar ones however the key test was severe. And the match thang....IDK. Poly is my go to finish, oil not water base as well. Recently tried some TotalBoat halcyon gloss. Very disappointed, glad I only bought a pint.
After applying the finish to the problem areas, then a light sanding and a final layer to the entire piece (same face anyway) would help blend it in. Also lacquer would probably be better than poly since it melts into previous layers. Another test?
In my experience lacquer is very soft and stays that way. I coated a guitar I made with lacquer and it gets worn very quickly. Sure it’s easier to fix than poly but poly doesn’t need to be fixed like lacquer does. I basically vowed to not t use lacquer ever again because it was shocking how quickly it wears. And fixing it is much more like fixing poly than it is fixing a hard wax.
@@jimbennett7248 depends on if you're counting time in your cost. A single coat of rubio is significantly quicker than multiple coats of poly, plus sanding between the coats. I've been using hardwax for most things and still go to poly when it's something like a side table that will have drinks on it. it's always annoying how much more time i have to spend on the poly and you cannot get away with less coats or skimping out on sanding or it looks horrible. It's really hard to mess up a hardwax finish, unlike the poly, but you can't beat the protection of poly for high-use things.
The water ring is annoying. I was trying Arm R seal Satin on a tabletop, and I got streaking no matter what strategy I tried. Now I'm considering Rubio and knowing it won't be quite as durable or resist water as well. Arm R seal water just beads up. I'm looking at doing Rubio and then doing ceramic coating like N3 from blacktail studio or something.
I've found that Arm R Seal needs to be stirred frequently while you're applying it in order to avoid streaking. When doing that, I've had no problems with it whatsoever.
According to osmos customer service to get the absolute correct protection from their product it is suppose to be brushed or rolled onto the surface. Contradicts the instructions on the cans
I've used Polyx on pieces for decades I would suggest that the first coat be a little heavier than shown and wiped off in line with the grain after a few mins then a couple more coats wiped on. At the end of the day it's a floor finish and I have had it on the floors in my house again for decades and it's so easy to refinish when required.
My experience, limited as it is, confirms all of this. The one thing you didn't talk about is cost. If I'm making a simple piece of daily use furniture I'm going poly every time. Marker - even sharpie - will wipe off of poly with a little rubbing alcohol. Not so for either of the other 2. The hard waxes cost too much for everyday use and I reserve them for what might be called heirloom pieces. They're just too darned expensive for anything else.
Definitely a factor. If I'm building a large bookshelf or queen size bedframe.......I'm not using Rubio at $60 for a small can when I can get a gallon of General Finishes Arm-R-Seal for the same price.
@@Jackson-T23 the hard wax ends up not being much different in price. It's harder to see on small (relatively) things like furniture, but I've done a lot of floor refinishing, with sanding sealer plus oil poly, and also with Bona (professional flooring brand) version of Rubio, which is essentially identical and priced similarly. You use so much more product with poly, even using the cheaper sealer first to reduce overall usage, that it works out almost the same. Add in extra applicators, abrasives before finish and between coats, cleaners after each sanding, tack cloth to get last dust up, etc... And the poly costs just as much. Then factor your time. Rubio claims to be "monocoat," so in theory you can do it all in one step and keep working on something else immediately after. In practice, you either have to over apply it to get a nice finish in one coat, or better practice is to do 2 light coats for furniture. Second coat uses very little product. No sanding, cleaning up dust, etc between. Stop sanding at 150, or basically do a really fast light sand if you hand plane surfaces first. Finish on and dry almost immediately, can work on other things, and project ready to be used in 24 hours. There's def a place for poly finish, but the quality hard wax are not really much different on price, all things considered, and save a ton of labor, which has it's own "cost" even if you're not paying someone else for it.
There are other hard wax oils than Rubio and odie. There’s Simple Finish,, for example, which is like $40 a quart. The real point is what kind of look do you want? Hard wax oil penetrating finishes produce a different result than a plastic film finish. If you want that encased in plastic look then hard wax oil isn’t even an option. If you want the natural oiled look than poly isn’t an option. Maybe, as an artist, I’m too focused on aesthetic, but these two products keep getting compared as if they are similar. They are completely different in my view. So there really isn’t a competition. It depends on what you want.
Film versus penetrating finishes are two different aesthetics to me. And which look you want determines which you choose. They don’t seem like they are on competition to me, and discussing the technical differences seems somewhat unnecessary to me. Perhaps I’m too aesthetically oriented but not f I want an encased in plastic look I’ll go film finish. And if I want a natural oiled look I go hard wax oil. Protection and difficulty of repair don’t even come into play for me. I choose what look I want. And for me it’s rarely encased in plastic.
The endearing quality of hardwax oil finishes isn't in its durability, it's ease of repair, "full" cure time (at least with Rubios accelerator), and smell of off gassing. Can't speak to Osmo, but I've refinished a few of my Rubio pieces and it's as simple as sanding the damaged area and reapplying oil.
I agree but would say the endearing quality is the look you get. People use oil because they don’t like the encased in plastic look you get with film finishes. I want my furniture to look like they are made of wood, and most wood isn’t glass smooth. I don’t want to see a perfect reflection in a buffed film finish. That’s not what wood looks like.
This test is missing an important step when applying the hard wax - Rubio says it takes 5 days to cure before it protects against water damage. It's not meant to work within minutes. This isn't an accurate test - though it was interesting to see some of the results.
I just about died when I saw u throwing keys and scratching at then and the markers 😲 yea your right though pens pencils crayons kids and nice wood😞 great video though Billy looking forward to the scroll project. I haven't used osmo or Rubio mainly because for me to buy it here in the UK it's like £75+($95+) a shot need try a poly though. 🏴👍
Sorry Michael but 750mls of Osmo Polyx is currently £31.93 from Wood Finishes Direct. God knows how much furniture you could finish with that amount! Once you have tried it you will not use much else. Their exterior oil finish is equally as good. I've been using it for decades.
From what I've heard, with hardwax oil you are relying on the strength of the wood itself to resist wear and tear, but with poly you are relying on the finish to do that.
That seems like an over simplification to me. Poly isn’t that hard. The real durability of the poly comes from it being a thick film finish. Much like a clear coat on a car. The paint gets protected because scratches don’t go deep enough to reach the paint. But with wood, putting poly on thick gives a distinctive look that most furniture makers don’t love. Encased in plastic might be something they tolerate because it’s a desk for thier kids. But few people would say it looks the best. And if you don’t put it on thick then you lose most of the protection it would give you.
So much hype around hard wax finishes these days. 2k poly's and concession varnishes outperform them in every category and offer so much more versatility in look and feel. Even vinyl sealer and nitro lacquer outperforms them. If professionals want to provide enduring, high quality finishes to their clients, they need to learn how to apply industrial finishes.
I agree that those finishes obviously provide more protection. Even shellac offers more protection and has a track record. What I don't understand about all this "hard wax" crazy is - if you don't use coasters, or set even a mildly hot pot on the table - you will need to fix it... It seems to me if you have kids, you're probably needing to redo that wax after every supper. I personally like nitro lacquer, but spray it all when needed. What I do NOT like, about 2k especially, is how hard it is to strip when someone brings that stuff in. I just had a table in the strip booth the other day after about an hour or so, I pulled it out and decided I will just sand strip it... had a feeling I would have to anyway. Also conversion, cats, and 2k are not easily repaired - and ALL finishes will damage at some point. But, yes, those are what the industry is doing.
I swore by tried and true. But it’s fickle. Amazing when it’s amazing. But fickle. I’ve since leaned into odies oil. It’s a workout if you’re putting it in a huge piece. But it’s hard to screw up. And I can touch it and it smells nice. I steer clear of anything I have to use mask to apply. Personal preference, sure.
put these boards in your kitchen and let them take the abuse of a year or three. the lipids in the fats tear the living hell out of the most expensive water based finishes.
For used furniture, tables etc I always go for the water based matte poly now. After testing these... because I like the look.. they do not hold up well enough. Now a book case? Yea ill use rubio/odies etc
EXACTLY what I needed to know- yours is the only resource I could find testing heat damage and repair on hard wax, specifically Osmo. Really appreciate your no-waffle style. Thank you SO MUCH!! 👍
Same here. My daughter really likes to paint on my table and of course, somethimes things go wrong... Its a big table and i really dont want to renew it every year
I don't know where the trend came from to wipe/spread on hardwax oil and wipe it straight off, but it goes against the directions on the tin. The directions say, and what I've always followed, are to use a roller (or paintbrush) to apply it thinly, and leave to dry. 2 coats. Using this method, Ive left water under a cup for hours and there are absolutely no marks whatsoever on the wood. There are videos that also say that hardwax oils don't leave a film on the wood. Wrong, they do, they leave a durable wax coating on top and soaked into the wood, unless of course you wipe it off.... I'd like to see this test done again, only using a roller to apply the hardwax oils. What hardwax oils are not great at is permanent marker. These leave a mark, but I've found you can use bleach to remove it. I use Shelley's mould remover, spray it on, leave it 10 mins, then wipe off and the mark is gone
For the marker test it would be instructive to use an alcohol based wipe (like we bought during the pandemic). The alcohol will definitely fix the marker, but how the finishes hold up from the alcohol is the question.
Agreed. My is a teacher and learned a very long time ago that basic hand sanitizer will instantly remove even sharpie's off desks with almost no effort. What it does to the finish? I do not know.
If the poly is fully cured, yes it will.
In fact fully cured poly will hold up to a quick wipe of lacquer thinner - which would also remove the sharpy.
The waxes wouldn't stand a chance.
I’m a contractor and denatured alcohol is my go to solution for all kinds of pen or scuff marks.
Great video. Same results I used to have using Rubio. ( 5 year old and twin 3 year olds so it gets abused!). My table is walnut. 6 months ago I used the ceramic coat from black Forrest. So far not a single mark or marker stain has been left.
One thing to add with hard wax’s is that a lot of makers are adding a ceramic finish to the piece. Would be interesting to see the same test with this added layer of protection.
Loved the video!
I'm working on a table now, and just ordered a bottle of ceramic finish to to on top of Rubio
Interesting… I would wonder how it changes the sheen of the finish and if it makes the “repairability” worse than the plain hardwax. If it gets shinier and is hard to repair, you might as well just put satin finish poly 🤷♂️
@@louisolivierfortin according to carbon method's website, it will increase the sheen a bit, but supposedly not affect the feel. I'll finish some scrap when i finish my table and do all Billy's tests on that and see if there's a difference.
@@jcrusso1 saw on some other video someone saying it's really hard to repair with ceramic finish. Hopefully someone does this test to confirmation
Those nano finishes seem to be graphene based, it's nasty stuff. Wouldn't put that in any home
So many woods with so many characteristics used in infinite projects requiring differing performances. Finish selection, usage, pro’s and con’s it’s mind-boggling. Having a finish that is easy to repair without changing color or sheen while making an invisible repair is an art and a challenge. Thanks for the information.
TO AVOID WATER MARKS ON HARD WAX OIL FINISH; slightly raise the grain and LIGHTLY SAND before adding the first coat. After 1st coat, again lightly mist with water and allow to remain wet for a few minutes, then again LIGHTLY SAND the grain back down before putting the final coat of finish. I've never had a water mark on any piece of furniture I've finished this way. share this advice
This was perfect timing for my upcoming project!!!!!!!! Thank you for all the time you put into this!!!! I too love both finishes..
Glad it could be helpful. They are both great. I certainly don't want to pick on either one of them.
One thing to note (although you prob are aware!) that the Tanin remover and degreaser agent that rubio do- would have removed all but the burn mark on the rubio piece. They sometimes work with other finishes also I’ve found. Keep them in my arsenal at all times!
Yep, but I didn't want to focus on a specific cleaner for one type of finish. I have heard good things though.
@@NewtonMakes makes sense for the video. Was also interesting btw. I’ve used the tanin and grease remover on non Rubio products to great success
One thing to note about water marks/rings with an oil or hardwax finish, is that many times it evaporates after a few days. I've noticed this and was happily surprised! If you came back to your test boards a few days later, I'm sure the same would've happened.
My go to finish is Osmo Poly-x satin over a wash coat of shellac. Its very pleasing to the touch and eye. But not at all a durable finish. I dislike the look and feel of Poly but will apply Satin Poly to specific areas where I expect moisture may be an issue, such as the top of a bookcase where a potted plant may be placed.
It's hard to beat the close to the wood look of a wax finish compared to poly.
Great video! I just started using Rubio and I’ve been impressed with the results, especially how nice it looks.
Poly is the best finish for any surface that gets daily use and I use satin with a 300 grit sanding sponge after final coat is cured for a less film appearance.
Thank you for doing the testing, it was remarkably interesting and informative. There are two tests, although essentially the same, they are a plate of hot food and a hot drink. These seem to be a killer on polyurethane, but I would like to see how the wax finishes hold up.
I don't mind osmo when I'm looking to add a wet look without the need for protection. But when I truly want to seal the wood to protect from water, I'll continue to use polys or lacquers.
My thought process is how easy can I repair a finish but not take away its history. That's why I use oil, wax, and shellac finishes.
Interesting video. Lately, I've been using several coats of shellac with a liberal coat of Johnsons paste wax on top. I realize it is not as durable as polyurethane or maybe even Osmo. But I on l y use it on projects that I figure won't be subject to abuse. Clocks, gift boxes and the like. I really like the "soft" feel the paste wax gives the wood. Thanks for the test and insight.
That's a great finishing combo. Not everything needs to be slathered in varnish. It's overkill.
Interesting
Great comparison! I have not used hard wax finishes yet. I am more familiar with Tung oil blends, polyurethane and polyurethane spray finish (which I like). I will be trying the Rubio or Osmo soon. I am most interested in overall looking and the ability to touch up.
Well, for the candle wax on the Osmo piece, I would have hit it with a heat gun and a micro fiber cloth first. Candle wax is generally very soft. Most waxes do not provide good water protection. Mostly I make lots of wood bowls.
Watched this for a second time. One thing about open grained woods like walnut, if the pores are left open, stuff, like candle wax can and will get into the pores. On the poly piece you did, there was some wax visible on one pore. Couldn't really see on the Rubio sample. You can fill the pores if you wet sand with the finish, and use a fine grit, like 400 or so. The resulting slurry will fill the holes so wax and other stuff can't get into it. I use that on my wood bowls I make, but use walnut oil instead of any kind of finish with solvents and driers in them.
this matches my experience with all of these finishes - Monocoat is the easiest to repair by a decent margin. Osmo PolyX isn't bad either. The only luck I've had repairing polyurethane finishes is doing an even sanding back and applying finish to the entire piece. Partial refinishing doesn't work (at least for me) with poly finishes - I need to go back a full layer or two and then apply a few new coats. With satin poly finishes this can be a little tricky if the flattener wasn't evenly distributed between each layer (remember: stir your satin poly before use), as it's easy to see the difference between the layers. I've had some luck applying a few coats of gloss and then a final coat or two of satin to avoid this, but it's a lot of tedius, noxious work any way cut it. So I tend to stick with hard oil wax finishes these days. I like Tried and True's lineup quite a lot. Though it does have a tendency to feel dry after a while and likes to be recoated
I saw your 3-year-old video on finishes and was wondering where new hardwax finishes fit into the pantheon. Thanks for addressing the issue.
Osmo is my favorite finish. It looks great and provides enough protection for most projects. If I'm making a table I might opt for Arm-R-Seal unless I want to be diligent about using coasters.
@@NewtonMakes that’s my dilemma. Is it better to use Osmo on table though bc it is easier to repair than poly?
Hey thanks a lot for doing this I have been wondering the same things you have tested. Great help!
Very solid testing. I find oil+wax to be great finishes on things that are either not gonna get a ton of abuse or they are mine and I can reapply. Poly is a more protective finish, but it is much harder to reapply and keep the look, especially on thick applications. For me, it really comes down to huffing poly fumes in the basement vs not.
If you want to huff polyurethane, you don't actually have to apply it to wood. Just apply some to a rag and breathe through the rag. Happy to help!
@@chaddraizin6616 I'm more of a straight from the can kind of a guy.
Osmo needs to sit for 24 hours before you put a second coat and another 24 for the 3rd coat. I believe it needs curating time before anything is put on top of it. After that, the hard wax becomes extra hard. Following the directions is important. Something to think about. I liked your test.
Great review. I have some walnut scrap I made into a some coasters to use on my WFH desk. They are finished in Watco danish oil and never have had water rings. But YMMV.
Danish oil finish is good stuff.
I liked that test , good job
i've been experimenting with different finishes but i'm leaning towards wax if i make a peice of furniture or something for someone else, the reason is wax is a finish anyone can do and it doesn't have to be an expensive or time consuming repair. some finshes are great if its me but i'm going to assume the average person wants something thats easy to maintain, hide scratches, etc.
Hand sanitizer works wonders for sharpie/markers
Or liquid rubbing alcohol
Interesting experiment, Billy. Gives me something to think about.
Bill
Basically just a thought experiment and an excuse to mess stuff up. 🤣
@@NewtonMakes Do you really need an excuse? I do it all the time without trying.
For sharpie, you can write over the marks with a dry erase marker and then wipe it up. It does cleanup better. Worth trying if the marks are not dramatic. It’s not necessarily 100%, but may be enough to avoid refinishing.
Thanks, that was great, really appreciate your work :) Josh, Australia
Mr. Clean cleans markers off nearly everything. Do a test area, it does take the shine off things.
I worked for a cabinet company we did touch up all the time it takes practice to cover and blend
I'd retouch these differently. I would sand the marks out on the poly then do two coats, sanding between. Maybe a third to even out the sheen. It's not repaired until the sheen is even.
With the hard waxes, online people say you can sand them then refinish with no difference in color or sheen. Again, I'd go farther than you did and try that- is there really no difference in color?
Fantastic testing, Newton! Thanks! 😃
About the markers, try some alcohol!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Alcohol does remove them but I should have tested alcohol's effect on the hard wax. Perhaps next time.
Great video since im currently trying to decide between the 2. My first dining table i finished in Fiddes hard wax oil which looked great, BUT we spilled food oil on it (basil pesto!) and it stained badly. I would love to have seen you test some food spill on the 2 samples so i could see if the same happens with osmo. Also, would love to see you put a hot mug or plate on both surfaces. Anyone else tried?
Loved the "teach me how to dougie" Instrumental at 7min
What about testing Lacquer durability
In my experience lacquer is soft and wears quickly. I basically vowed to never use it again after getting bad results on a guitar I made. Not durable enough and not that easy to repair only to have it wear out again.
I've used nail polish remover on the ink without damaging the surface.
How long was the dry time?? Poly needs a month to fully harden. Thanks for video.
Another consideration would be alkyd which I so far have good experience with, although that seems to be more popular here in Europe than in the Americas
Did you try or is it possible to mix rubio and osmo oil with osmo and rubio accelaratior or hardener
Thanks
Greate test! But what if… you combine 2 or 3 products. Base layer:hardwax. Mid layer:poly. Top layer: Rubio/Osmo. 😊
Top coat Rubio? You do realize Rubio needs to react with bare wood to do its thing?
But did you scotchbrite buff the hard wax applications? That's been critical for me in better outcomes and repairs (and repair blending).
I’d like to know what finish is on the countertop you are using. I like the light color and it is likely a hard finish. I have a birch butcher block countertop that needs to be finished. Thank you.
How long did you let the hardwax cure?
I have people do this same ice water test on other brands of hardwax oil and they came up with totally different results...
This is what I'm wondering too. The hardwax finishes take something like 2 weeks to fully cure.
Yeah, I've found that water sitting a good while on a hard wax will make a ring, more so than on poly, but they have always dried out to invisible after a few days. He might not have given it enough dry time before sanding it out.
I have never had an issue with water resistance on my hard waxed furniture.
The problem with TH-cam tests and reviews is that they don’t always mimic the real world and test all the important qualities. Stats is data, but it’s only data.
Did you let the Rubio cure for 7 days (or 21 days with no accelerator before testing? I don't know if that would make a difference but it might.
Did you wait 7 days for fully curing both?
I enjoyed this vid as I do similar ones however the key test was severe. And the match thang....IDK.
Poly is my go to finish, oil not water base as well. Recently tried some TotalBoat halcyon gloss. Very disappointed, glad I only bought a pint.
We're allowed to have fun in life. Those portions were mainly about fixing issues later.
After applying the finish to the problem areas, then a light sanding and a final layer to the entire piece (same face anyway) would help blend it in. Also lacquer would probably be better than poly since it melts into previous layers. Another test?
In my experience lacquer is very soft and stays that way. I coated a guitar I made with lacquer and it gets worn very quickly. Sure it’s easier to fix than poly but poly doesn’t need to be fixed like lacquer does.
I basically vowed to not t use lacquer ever again because it was shocking how quickly it wears. And fixing it is much more like fixing poly than it is fixing a hard wax.
I'd like to see you run a test on shellac
Gonna stay with the polyurethane, I like the durability and I think it's an all around good finish product.
It really is. Plus it's hard to beat the fast drying time.
Once cost is considered it seems poly for me
@@jimbennett7248 depends on if you're counting time in your cost. A single coat of rubio is significantly quicker than multiple coats of poly, plus sanding between the coats.
I've been using hardwax for most things and still go to poly when it's something like a side table that will have drinks on it. it's always annoying how much more time i have to spend on the poly and you cannot get away with less coats or skimping out on sanding or it looks horrible. It's really hard to mess up a hardwax finish, unlike the poly, but you can't beat the protection of poly for high-use things.
So now, take that ceramic coating for a final finish on the Rubio and see what that does. Black Forrest makes it.
The water ring is annoying. I was trying Arm R seal Satin on a tabletop, and I got streaking no matter what strategy I tried. Now I'm considering Rubio and knowing it won't be quite as durable or resist water as well. Arm R seal water just beads up. I'm looking at doing Rubio and then doing ceramic coating like N3 from blacktail studio or something.
I've found that Arm R Seal needs to be stirred frequently while you're applying it in order to avoid streaking. When doing that, I've had no problems with it whatsoever.
According to osmos customer service to get the absolute correct protection from their product it is suppose to be brushed or rolled onto the surface. Contradicts the instructions on the cans
Yep, it does. Plus, you can't leave wax finishes on the surface to dry otherwise it becomes a sticky mess. I know from experience.
I've used Polyx on pieces for decades I would suggest that the first coat be a little heavier than shown and wiped off in line with the grain after a few mins then a couple more coats wiped on. At the end of the day it's a floor finish and I have had it on the floors in my house again for decades and it's so easy to refinish when required.
Rubio has a 30 day fully cure time. Did you wait that amount of time?
My experience, limited as it is, confirms all of this. The one thing you didn't talk about is cost. If I'm making a simple piece of daily use furniture I'm going poly every time. Marker - even sharpie - will wipe off of poly with a little rubbing alcohol. Not so for either of the other 2. The hard waxes cost too much for everyday use and I reserve them for what might be called heirloom pieces. They're just too darned expensive for anything else.
Definitely a factor. If I'm building a large bookshelf or queen size bedframe.......I'm not using Rubio at $60 for a small can when I can get a gallon of General Finishes Arm-R-Seal for the same price.
@@Jackson-T23 the hard wax ends up not being much different in price. It's harder to see on small (relatively) things like furniture, but I've done a lot of floor refinishing, with sanding sealer plus oil poly, and also with Bona (professional flooring brand) version of Rubio, which is essentially identical and priced similarly. You use so much more product with poly, even using the cheaper sealer first to reduce overall usage, that it works out almost the same. Add in extra applicators, abrasives before finish and between coats, cleaners after each sanding, tack cloth to get last dust up, etc... And the poly costs just as much.
Then factor your time. Rubio claims to be "monocoat," so in theory you can do it all in one step and keep working on something else immediately after. In practice, you either have to over apply it to get a nice finish in one coat, or better practice is to do 2 light coats for furniture. Second coat uses very little product. No sanding, cleaning up dust, etc between. Stop sanding at 150, or basically do a really fast light sand if you hand plane surfaces first. Finish on and dry almost immediately, can work on other things, and project ready to be used in 24 hours.
There's def a place for poly finish, but the quality hard wax are not really much different on price, all things considered, and save a ton of labor, which has it's own "cost" even if you're not paying someone else for it.
There are other hard wax oils than Rubio and odie. There’s Simple Finish,, for example, which is like $40 a quart.
The real point is what kind of look do you want? Hard wax oil penetrating finishes produce a different result than a plastic film finish. If you want that encased in plastic look then hard wax oil isn’t even an option. If you want the natural oiled look than poly isn’t an option.
Maybe, as an artist, I’m too focused on aesthetic, but these two products keep getting compared as if they are similar. They are completely different in my view. So there really isn’t a competition. It depends on what you want.
@@CarlYota You are correct. A mirror is always a poor substitute for a pond. Ask anyone who has tried to drink from either.
Also for poly repairs, I've been doing full panel sand and re-apply for repairs for decades, and that's just the game with film finishes. ** shrug **
Film versus penetrating finishes are two different aesthetics to me. And which look you want determines which you choose. They don’t seem like they are on competition to me, and discussing the technical differences seems somewhat unnecessary to me.
Perhaps I’m too aesthetically oriented but not f I want an encased in plastic look I’ll go film finish. And if I want a natural oiled look I go hard wax oil. Protection and difficulty of repair don’t even come into play for me. I choose what look I want.
And for me it’s rarely encased in plastic.
The endearing quality of hardwax oil finishes isn't in its durability, it's ease of repair, "full" cure time (at least with Rubios accelerator), and smell of off gassing. Can't speak to Osmo, but I've refinished a few of my Rubio pieces and it's as simple as sanding the damaged area and reapplying oil.
I agree but would say the endearing quality is the look you get. People use oil because they don’t like the encased in plastic look you get with film finishes. I want my furniture to look like they are made of wood, and most wood isn’t glass smooth. I don’t want to see a perfect reflection in a buffed film finish. That’s not what wood looks like.
We like to use pre-catilized clear Laqure
Excellent video, thank you
Did the HW cure 72 hours before the testing?
Isopropyl alcohol will remove Sharpie, as much as possible anyway. It'll remove scuffs from the car bumper, and walls and doors too.
You can remove wax from a table surface by laying paper over the wax and placing a warm clothes iron on top for a few seconds.
So what do we think about odies
I don't use it. I'm not a fan of the company. I hear the product itself is good though.
What about shellac?
This test is missing an important step when applying the hard wax - Rubio says it takes 5 days to cure before it protects against water damage. It's not meant to work within minutes. This isn't an accurate test - though it was interesting to see some of the results.
I just about died when I saw u throwing keys and scratching at then and the markers 😲 yea your right though pens pencils crayons kids and nice wood😞 great video though Billy looking forward to the scroll project. I haven't used osmo or Rubio mainly because for me to buy it here in the UK it's like £75+($95+) a shot need try a poly though. 🏴👍
It's crazy how expensive it is. I will say with osmo that it lasts forever. I find that it goes much further than Rubio or poly.
@@NewtonMakes fair enough maybe just have to bite the bullet and purchase one. 🏴👍
@@NewtonMakes of course unless you work with them and can get a can sent to me that would be mint!
Sorry Michael but 750mls of Osmo Polyx is currently £31.93 from Wood Finishes Direct. God knows how much furniture you could finish with that amount! Once you have tried it you will not use much else. Their exterior oil finish is equally as good. I've been using it for decades.
@@Dickie2702 thanks for that I'll check that out give it shot see what it's like. 🏴👍
From what I've heard, with hardwax oil you are relying on the strength of the wood itself to resist wear and tear, but with poly you are relying on the finish to do that.
That seems like an over simplification to me. Poly isn’t that hard. The real durability of the poly comes from it being a thick film finish. Much like a clear coat on a car. The paint gets protected because scratches don’t go deep enough to reach the paint.
But with wood, putting poly on thick gives a distinctive look that most furniture makers don’t love. Encased in plastic might be something they tolerate because it’s a desk for thier kids. But few people would say it looks the best.
And if you don’t put it on thick then you lose most of the protection it would give you.
Thanks!
Thanks for the support!
@@NewtonMakes No problem! 😄
Sooo… can a poly finish be applied over a hard wax? 🤔💭
Poly over wax generally does not work.
Only poly then wax on top
Osmo seems to be as durable as a tried and true or pure tung oil finish. Just quicker to apply
That sounds about right. I like the look of Osmo better, but that's subjective.
So much hype around hard wax finishes these days. 2k poly's and concession varnishes outperform them in every category and offer so much more versatility in look and feel. Even vinyl sealer and nitro lacquer outperforms them. If professionals want to provide enduring, high quality finishes to their clients, they need to learn how to apply industrial finishes.
I agree that those finishes obviously provide more protection. Even shellac offers more protection and has a track record.
What I don't understand about all this "hard wax" crazy is - if you don't use coasters, or set even a mildly hot pot on the table - you will need to fix it... It seems to me if you have kids, you're probably needing to redo that wax after every supper.
I personally like nitro lacquer, but spray it all when needed.
What I do NOT like, about 2k especially, is how hard it is to strip when someone brings that stuff in.
I just had a table in the strip booth the other day after about an hour or so, I pulled it out and decided I will just sand strip it... had a feeling I would have to anyway.
Also conversion, cats, and 2k are not easily repaired - and ALL finishes will damage at some point.
But, yes, those are what the industry is doing.
get a pint of catalyzed clear acrylic urethane with a flattening agent added to it. automotive paint shop can mix it up for you, thank me later.
osmo is quite a bit more expensive
Well the guys over at Black Forest seem to really like the ceramic coating. But then, it's thier product.
I swore by tried and true. But it’s fickle. Amazing when it’s amazing. But fickle.
I’ve since leaned into odies oil. It’s a workout if you’re putting it in a huge piece. But it’s hard to screw up. And I can touch it and it smells nice.
I steer clear of anything I have to use mask to apply. Personal preference, sure.
What about Odie's Oil? I have heard big claims... 😜
I run a business out of my home workshop so I don't think I'm qualified to test Odies according to the company spokesman.
2-3 weeks cure time on the Osmo? Hard Oi...pass. I prefer Liberon Finishing Oil.
put these boards in your kitchen and let them take the abuse of a year or three. the lipids in the fats tear the living hell out of the most expensive water based finishes.
Rest down the matches willfully by accident
We're allowed to have fun. Maybe I need text on my videos as reminders for everyone just in case they get upset about something silly.
@@NewtonMakes who is the someone?
When you have nothing to say but need to get some affiliate links clicked.
For used furniture, tables etc I always go for the water based matte poly now. After testing these... because I like the look.. they do not hold up well enough. Now a book case? Yea ill use rubio/odies etc
Thanks!
???🤔