I am a biochemist, and for what it's worth, I am impressed at the way you handled the complex conversation around VOCs. I love seeing people acknowledge risks and uncertainty, and I do appreciate the pragmatic take.
What always striked me (being an organic chemist) as odd is that Rubyo contains isocyanates, yet everybody seems to ignore this. They are even the only one having a friggin GHS symbol on them. Granted, it's just the lame exclamation mark, but still. Isocyanates are very well known for being harmful in a multitude of ways and that's why I decided to stick to linseed based oils instead. Despite the ease of application and low curing time being presented in a very tempting way throughout the interwebs.
@@christiannorf1680 Been a minute since I looked at their MSDS sheet but I believe just the accelerator has isocyanates. It is so hard to communicate the gradient of risk profiles for different types of finishes because it requires some base level understanding that cannot be assumed on an audience from all types of background.
@@WoodcraftBySuman Isn't it usually used with the accelerator? I totally get it, I often get seemingly easy chemistry or biology related questions that are really hard to answer. I was just wondering because it stands out with the warning sign and all. But maybe I am just sensitized from my profession and the average joe things more along the lines of "Eh, the dishwasher detergent has the same label". Dunno
Hmm it kind of depends on a lot of things. If their finish stoichiometry is correct, and there are no free isocyanate left after cure it ought to be fine. Plus isocyanate reactions are VOC free. I think if you were wearing proper PPE it ought to be fine. As long as the original free isocyanate isn't volatile, but that seems pretty dangerous to not disclose to consumers. Coming from a polymer chemist.
First time visitor here and I must say, well done! Coming from an automotive paint background I agree with your recommendation for using a respirator. The thing most people don’t realize is that if they have been using these products for a long period of time they have probably become desensitized to any odor they emit so they don’t smell anything. Pay attention when visitors come into your space and comment how much it stinks! Wear a respirator!
I rarely comment on any YT videos, but this series that you’ve been doing on finishes has been fantastic. I know you put a lot of focus on video performance analytics as to which videos you leave on the channel, but all of your finish test videos are better than any others out there.
I've been in coatings for decades.. As a younger man, 20's, I and my coworkers decided to forego the respirators with much more harsh chemicals like lacquer thinner, paint strippers, etc.. For the last couple of decades I have developed a sensitivity to chemicals, such as perfumes that are so bad that if I were to walk down the laundry aisle in a store, by the end of the aisle I'd be gasping for air.. Wear the respirator... yes it sucks.. wear it..
I consider myself a hobby woodworker but have sold about 10 pieces of furniture to friends and family and I have used all but 2 of the products you listed and have settled on Osmo. And per your comment on how we have fooled ourselves into believing we like dull finishes I have been using the glossy osmo 3011. I came to this conclusion myself after showing test boards to friends and family and the few clients I build for and ALL of them picked either the 3011 or conversion varnish. I must admit I have moved back to spraying finishes on large projects and table tops as the water based conversion varnishes are now very good and it is ultimately faster. I know people are going to say “film finishes are not repairable “ but for me, a guy who builds mostly mission furniture out of dye stained QS W. Oak, if you have a finish failure your repair process is complicated no matter the finish.
Hi Jon, it is extremely valuable for manufacturers like us to understand the market needs and expectations. Thank you for preparing this video. Nevertheless, we would be more than happy to send our products for your review.
I've been using your products for a few projects now, I like them. Even during the cold months when my shop hovers around 30 degrees they seam to work pretty good
Hard Wax oil is so easy to make in the shop that I am amazed the companies that sell ya a little can for $50 can stay in business. Buy a lab hot plate from Amazon, some hard wax of your choice, some limone orange peel solvent (a more pleasant smell for the shop/home as well), get a can of tung or linseed oil and a bag of pine resin for some sheen, heat it all to 153 or so to meld it together and Bob's yer uncle. There are plenty of TH-cam videos about the process, it makes your finish one of the less expensive parts of your build with surprisingly good results. You could also ask people who make their living with fine woodworking if THEY are wasting resources the way us amateurs do. -Veteran '66-68
This is great information for all new woodworkers to watch (and honestly a lot of veteran wood workers too). It's a very dangerous hobby/profession that can be amazingly fulfilling when handled appropriately and safely. It's a great reminder that the risks are not just with the blade aspect but the chemicals we use and the byproducts around. So thanks for shedding this light, and hopefully it encourages other woodworking influencers to lead by example and educate while entertaining.
Wait.. what was the finish used on the #1 piece at 17:43? I actually liked that one better than #4. Also, can't wait for the ceramics video.. Thanks for the great content as always!
I used osmo on my kitchen worktops. Great stuff, easy to use, lasts ages before having to sand and reapply. In 6 years I’ve only sanded and reapplied once, that said it is due another soon
I used Rubio on my maple island countertop ans it was the easiest thing to apply. After 10-15 minutes I buffed let it cure for a week and I love the look of almost raw wood.
Fantastic video as usual! Glad to see a ceramics video is on the way. If it's not too late, I'm super curious to see woodworking ceramic coatings up against a typical automotive ceramic coating.
Very slick and informative presentation. As a 'noob' WRT to these finishes, I feel much more informed not about these hardwax oils, but also side bar information about finishes in general. Merci beaucoup
I've always liked the look of a couple coats of 100% Tung oil followed by a beeswax buffed in. Not as quick as an all in one can, but also quite cheap.
Thank you for a great video. As always it appears to be unbiased and loaded with a very appropriate level of humor. Did you consider re-applying the finish after the stain test to see how easily or difficult the stain is to repair?
Thank you for putting in the effort into these types of videos! I really appreciate the clarity this brings with all of these hard wax/oil finishes!! Upon closer look I recognized the logo on the ceramic coating used on sample #4, I am looking forward to that video!!
I’m a huge a Odies Oil fan. I got hooked when I started refinishing and it’s carried over as I’m progressing in the building side of things. I’ve tried Rubio just to see what the fuss about and I much prefer the Odies. Surface prep and follow the directions. A little more work but it’s worth it
A way to cheat extra shine is to come back after a day or two, I sand it with. 2000 or higher grit and then go back with their wood butter, 2 year old projects look like I just oiled them yesterday. Their pigments are cool and you can make endless custom colors, I don’t do it very often but their cool to have on hand
This is life changing. I have been using satin poly all my life. This is like walking out of the barn and into the sun (with sunscreen). Your thoroughness in testing would make the FDA jealous.
I don't often find myself anxiously awaiting a youtube video, but I am anxiously awaiting your ceramic coat review video. I feel embarrassed that I've never heard of this before watching your video today, but I'm impressed by just your brief demonstration. It looks durable and beautiful.
I have been working with Osmo quite a bit lately and a few comments: 1. I found the fumes in a double garage to be pretty strong and started wearing a respirator - thanks for validating that was a good move! 2. I placed two objects with rubber feet on my shop cabinets finished with Osmo and both left marks from the rubber feet that I was not able to wash or scrub off... it looks like sand and refinish - I am not impressed with this 3. Several professional furniture makers have noted that the Osmo of today is not the same as the Osmo of prior years. They don't know what changed but do not find it as durable and some have switched to Fiddes for that reason. 4. I really like Osmo Raw's appearance on maple and birch - worth comparing to clear.
I used Osmo for the first time recently. All the videos make it seem like it doesn't have a strong odor, but after only a few minutes of working with it I grabbed my respirator. My VOC monitor showed a modest elevation but it dropped of very quickly with ventilation. I'd say wear a respirator while applying, but if you have fresh air coming in it's probably safe after an hour. The smell seems to linger for longer than the VOCs stay elevated, so when the smell is gone you know its safe. I used clear satin on ash and it looks pretty good. The effect is subtle compared to more traditional finishes, but it definitely adds contrast to the grain, though the sheen leaves a little to be desired imo. I'm thinking of trying the gloss next.
Any time I use my harbor freight clamps with the black rubber jaw pads I get the same thing, I think it's residual oil squeezing out from the manufacturing process. Definitely not ideal.
@@jstins - I haven't tried Fiddes yet - I was just noting that some professional furniture makers I follow have switched from Osmo to Fiddes over the last year or so.
@@jstinsA bit late but may be helpful for some people, recently had an issue with rubber feet leaving marks on fiddes. Seemed like it was almost a grease type problem or like the surface of the rubber had denatured/softened slightly. Very annoying though as it seems to stand up to most other wear pretty well
I know you discussed this, but I think it’s very important to note that not all volatiles are the same. The nature of the solvent is key. For example, shellac has a ton of VOCs in it, but it’s just ethanol which while technically a toxin, isn’t the same thing as methyl ethyl ketone.
You are exactly right. However, it is essentially cost prohibitive to test all these samples in a lab to get proper chemical composition and measure their relative toxicity with known agents and their potency. Even then, there are lots of nuances and complications that is simply beyond the scope of a woodworker. At the end of the day, precaution and ppe is probably the best way to go.
@@Dickie2702 it's highly variable. For instance, the VOCs in Minwax oil based poly give me severe headaches if I do not use a respirator with a vapor blocking filter. Osmo Poly-X bothers me too but not as bad - I certainly would not apply Osmo in a unventilated area without a respirator. I've never had any sort of reaction with Monocoat, Odie's, or Tried & True.
@joewilson4436 I couldn't tell you what Osmo smells like as I wouldn't apply any finish without PPE. I have been in the business for over 50 years, so as an employer I have to take Health and Safety very seriously, we get inspected by our regulatory body on a regular basis. Rubio Mono Coat is like Woodpeckers Tools a fantastic piece of exploitative marketing. Everybody on Woodworker on TH-cam seems to have a big 'red' tool wall behind them as they are applying their massively overpriced and over rated Rubio. Osmo has a very long track record and produces a wide range of excellent products, their Exterior Oil will last several years on outdoor furniture before requiring a recoat. Rubio is also six times the price of Osmo in the UK and certainly not six times superior and yes we have evaluated it. Ceramic coating though appear to be quite interesting.
@@Dickie2702 it’s hard to make a broad statement like that to be honest. Bc it really depends on the specific finish and the compounds within it. Sawdust is cacenogenic but mostly for nasal cancer and increases relative risk ratio by 3.1x from what I remember. Not a lot of other types of cancer with solid data and remarkable increases risk due to sawdust exposure alone (lung cancer for example is 1.19x ish). But say there is benzene or formaldehyde in a finish, as an occupational level of exposure, bet ya that’s gonna get you before the sawdust.
Sure. But Lots of these oils smell great. Simple Finish by maker brand smells like baking pizza crust to me. But that doesn’t mean it’s not harmful. Some of them maxed out the VOC meter nonetheless so we can’t just use scent to determine potential danger.
Nice comparison. Another test that I would like to see is ease of cleaning and resistance / compatibility with common household cleaners. The scenario I have in mind is food bits and pieces smeared on the table (think mashed potatoes, yogurt, tomato sauce, cereal pudding, etc) and left to dry completely for a few days - possibly resulting in some of the hardest materials know to man! Then cleaning of the surface with general purpose surface cleaners, including some containing alcohol and bleach. The results should show how clean the surface is and how much damage (if any) the finish has suffered. I have a dinner table finished with wipe-on poly and it passes the test with flying colors, can be cleaned completely, possibly scrubbing it with a cloth with household cleaner and there is no permanent damage to the finish.
I’ve sold industrial wood coatings for 17 years and would highly recommend a film forming finish over any of these hard wax oils with regard to abrasion, impact resistance, wiping and scrubbing. Don’t get me wrong you can make anything fail but I’d much rather have 2-4 mils of chemically cross-linked film protecting the wood than a non-film forming finish. I would personally go with an acrylic urethane or your catalyzed water-based recommendation on anything that requires regular wiping and cleaning. However, this requires a spray application which intimidates most. Cheers.
Hey Jon, thanks for doing all the hard work for us. If I had to do this testing on my own, I'd lose it about halfway through and pull the car back into the garage...... Plus, it's hard for us Weekenders to afford all those finishes just to test out what they look like on various woods. One quick question though, what does your neighbor use?
One of the great things about Osmo is the shear number of options that they offer. It’s also one of the things that makes it a little confusing especially when you factor in that because it is a multinational brand there are some products that have been specifically developed for each branch market. The 3043 satin finish you are using here actually has a higher VOC content than some of its counterparts. 3043 is recommended for a brushed or rolled application, while 3053 which was developed for North America as a lower VOC option with higher solids content is recommended for a cloth application. Don’t get me wrong it still has VOC so if you want to truly go low VOC you need to get some 5125 which is the highest solids option and therefore also the most expensive, but it builds a coat twice as fast. Two thin coats of 5125 is a pretty easy stoping point, by comparison I would say you would want to do 3-4 coats of the 3043 or 3053. It makes sense when you think about it though Osmo is a flooring product. If you want build a thick finish quickly on a new floor you go with 5125. If you want give an existing Osmo finished floor a quick refresh you go with a quick coat of 3043 or 3053 to bump back up the sheen and protection with a slightly faster drying time due to the added thinners.
I am eager for the ceramic follow-up. I have been using it on my cars for years, and am interested to see your results. I was not a fan of how much it darkened the walnut, so hopefully there are others that keep the more natural look (I liked #1 in the blind test).
Love your build and finish videos! After many years I’ve just started paying much more attention to this. While I’ve settled on the look and feel of pure bees wax for finishing most of what I’ve been doing, I’ve been looking into more options. Thank you for this
Very informative, I think you are one of the few TH-camrs that only recommends products that you have actually tested and used and that’s why I will keep watching! 😁
As a long time hobbyist woodworker, I find these tests interesting and really enjoy your videos. My outlook though is, comparing "Food Safe" finishes to not food safe finishes to be, not apples to apples. In all actuality if I am working on something not to be used as a food safe item I will most likely be reaching for a poly and for food safe, at this moment in time, reach for Tried and True. I know the Tried and True will need to be reapplied through the items lifetime. Many of the other 'better' finishes for something like an end-table or tabletop are expensive compared to the products' selling points. Remember, I am a 'hobbyist' not someone making a living from my woodworking. TLDR; the info is great and thanks for the time and effort put into the making of the video. I look forward to all your videos. Oh, and PS.... I have a table saw that hasnt been lubed in over 5 years (I dont PM my tools as religiously as I should either)😉. I definitely will look into the WD dry lube. Thanks again.
Actually, all film finishes once fully cured safe for food contact - just the manufacturers know there is a market for "food safe" and will gladly make money on that.
@@Mike-bh7sh From what I can tell, most finishes in the category of "food safe" are just not film finishes, because you don't want your cutting board imparting bits of plastic into the onion you're chopping. From a different perspective, film finishes could be considered the most food safe because food liquids and the bacteria they carry aren't going to penetrate into the wood grain and fester, so poly might be fine for something like a fruit bowl.
I'm scratching my head, feeling akin to watching a weather report telling me it's sunny out, but when I look out my window I see that it is raining. I have been in the high end of wood finishing for well over 30 years and my own experience with Odie's, Rubio and Osmo could NOT be any more different. After years of using Rubio, learning all about it's strengths and weaknesses, we switched to Odie's, because basically it addressed all of Rubio's weaknesses and brought some truly unexpected bonuses that we were able to turn into more offerings and business in general, as well as happier customers. For example, Rubio failed time and time again on certain exotics, especially oily ones. Odie's did amazingly well on those or any species. Rubio sets up in 15-mins and the application and buff off cycle has to be completed within that time frame. Imagine doing that on 2000sf! It gets annoying and time consuming constantly switching pads. With Odie's we can complete the entire job application and buff off after without stress of having waited too long. Much more efficient work flow, especially on large projects, which was the exact opposite of what you said in the video! Rubio requires that the highest you sand is about 120. Why, if it's truly a molecular bonding finish as they claim? It's because once you mix it with the catalyst, it bonds to that instead of the wood fiber and needs the scratch pattern for adhesion. Not so with Odie's. You can sand up to 5000 if you wanted to, it will still bond. Which brings me to my next point (one of the unexpected bonuses I referenced earlier). You can get a high gloss with Odie's! The higher you sand, the higher the shine! Try that with any of the others! Odie's is tung oil based. It is truly a marine grade finish. It performed much better in kitchens (or outdoors) than Rubio. I know because I had both in my kitchen with 4 kids and a big dog. :) The VOC topic in this industry is confusing at best, lies at worst. VOC's are not the problem. Trees emit VOC's. Isocyanates found in the catalyst is what we should be worried about. Rubio has isocyanates, Odie's does not. I could go on and on and on. We tried most and we only use Odie's on all our products at this point. However, I will submit that we too had failures in the beginning. Learning how to correctly apply and remove the product was key!
@@TheHesitantHandyman I told you my real life experience. I purposely gave specific examples, not talking points. You on the other hand only got talking points it seems . Why don't you get specific too? Which part do you have a problem with SPECIFICALLY?
Thank you, Sir! Such a good insight! This guy just posted an amateur video just to get monetized after he saw he got to 1.5 million views on his last video bashing on finishes.
@@mihaialexandrina2227 I mean how do you do a review of a product and completely ignore it's best features? Is it lack of knowledge or deliberate misinformation? Either way, the credibility of the review comes into question.
Interesting note on the variation between different chunks of wood. My guess is this might be down to the direction of the grain, especially with open pore woods like walnut. Whether the grain is more parallel or perpendicular probably affects how well the finish soaks into the wood. I did similar tests and Monocoat outperformed Osmo in my test. Though I've been using Tried & True for most stuff these days, the cost, ease of application (no mixing of two-parts, I'm looking at you Monocoat), shelf life (again, Monocoat is terrible in this regard) and ability to build up a nice sheen if you sand to a high grit are what won me over. For table tops and such I use Tried & True Varnish Oil - which has a pine resin in addition to the linseed oil and wax. I haven't done any scientific testing but this seems to be noticeably more durable than the original T&T oil+wax finish. It also builds a glossier sheen than most other oil+wax finishes. T&T Danish Oil - a confusing and dumb name as this is simply pure polerymized linseed oil - is a great finish for tool handles or other things around the shop too
My favorite finish freaks out most woodworkers. I apply polymerized tung oil and follow that with general's waterbased high gloss over the wet tung oil. I then knock the shine down with 0000 and finish with paste wax. You have to try it to believe it.
This is really helpful, finishes are always stressful to me. I typically just use Tung oil and that's it but I have thought about trying something else.
What a great video! In my opinion, perfectly paced, very entertaining and educational. It was a pleasure to watch. You kept my attention(hard to do) throughout the video and I walked away with valuable knowledge. A template on how to make a comparison/review video. Great job! Thank you! Oh, and it's the first time in a long time I didn't skip the sponsor part:) I'm getting a can and getting to my table saw!
What's missing is the comparsion with pure Linseed oil and/or combined with a mixture of bee wax and (natural) turpentine. Ah, and don't forget shellack in regards to protection and look. Your pieces probably need a bit more time to rest, but the long time performance is better. It's the same with bone glue. It takes a bit more time to dry, but I think that 2000 year old furniture found in egyptian graves, which is still holding itself together, is the most convincing argument in regards to durability...
My table saw trunnion gears look like yours did, I'm picking up a can of that WD-40 Dry Lube on the way home tonight! Oh, and the rest of the video on the finishes was great too. Nice work!
I just used Odie's Oil and Odie's Butter on a tabletop. I'm visiting the client's home again on Monday, 3 weeks after finish application. I'll do some testing on it to see how it worked out. Thanks for the video. Lots of great info. And I've really been wanting to get into ceramic coatings. One thing to test out would be how long can you wait after the initial finish to apply the ceramic? Does it have to be almost immediately after the cure rate of the finish? Or can it be applied a month later? 6 months later?
These products are expensive, so I mostly go with boiled linseed oil and beeswax, but I think I will follow your excellent advice. THANK YOU for your excellent experiment and explanation.
I´m using tung oil up to seven coats for fluid resistance, durability and outdoor constructions. No chemicals and perfect results even though it darkens the wood, of course. This way you have no variations in shiny colors or shades but it´s durable and even protects wood from metal stains. For shiny finishes I polish the surface with bee wax. Sometimes I am combining linseed oil and wax. I must admit, I never used walnut. I guess tung oil would darken the surface way too much. But hey, no chemicals - good for the environment, good for the people.
My daughters dresser we refinished we painted frame and top with beyond paint and then I used Odie’s on the drawer faces. The bottle went a long way and actual smells pleasant (I applied on back patio so well vented) but I didn’t mind being out there and even though labor intensive rubbing in and then buffing off I wasn’t suffocating in fumes which was nice.
Excellent video! Except now I wish your video on ceramic coatings was out... I'm a total amateur about to stain a butcher block desktop for my kids and I really don't know what coating to use on top. I was going to use polyurethane, but your other video on finishes led me here... and now I don't know what to use. 🤔
Wow! I’ve never been a fan of the matte wood finishes. (There I said it.) I’ve been scratching my head for years wondering what I’M not seeing that everyone else is. Not that I’m suggesting “grand piano gloss”, but I don’t see a lot of life in a lot of these matte finishes? Also not sure why ease of application outweighs longevity & durability. Your spur of the moment scrub test was eye opening, to say the least. I really appreciated your comments on these subjects. I look forward to the ceramics video and hope the “scrub test” shows up there too.
I feel similarly. Matte and satin finishes have become popular in recent times, seemingly as part of an interior design trend of not wanting any piece of furniture to stand out so as to achieve a "neutral" looking room. To me, that just sounds like wanting your living room to look like the waiting room at a doctor's office: a transitional space you aren't meant to remember, as opposed to a space actually inhabited by people. Gloss finishes bring out more contrast in grain, as well as draw the eye to complex joinery and other multifaceted details because of how light is reflected. They're good finishes for showing off the work that went into a piece. As for ease of application, it can make a huge difference to some people. Polyurethane requires a lot of preparation, time, and skill, and personally I hate working with these toxic chemicals, it's by far the least fun part of this craft. I'll make some compromises for my health and sanity, though maybe not for something that needs a really durable finish, like a dining table.
Thanks for watching and I totally agree with you! As far as the ceramics, no amount of scrubbing does anything to them. It’s like a poly or lacquer - pretty damn bullet proof
I’m the opposite. I used to use crappy wood and then put a crap ton of film finish on it and polish it up to a mirror shine. When I made the switch to using expensive hardwood and my skill improved to justify using said material I go for penetrating finishes to show off the natural quality of the wood rather than just encase it in plastic. That being said. If you are in an environment where your furniture is going to get abused or used by children, etc. then maybe you shouldn’t have a 3000 dollar TV stand until they grow up. Or just encase it in plastic so they can draw all over it. I really don’t care one way or another what other people like or choose to do. We all have different perspectives. But to me the natural finish of a penetrating oil feels classier. There obviously is no right or wrong here. The debate of film vs penetrating oil will rage on forever.
Really good Video! One addition: The ratio of the voc test from surface to aiir volume is roughly 0,3m²/m³ . That would scale up to applying finish on a 15m² (e.g 7m long by 2,2m board) in a 20m² room with no vent/open Windows.
In my opinion the price comparsion should be in more useful format. Cents per ml doesnt really tell the price of the finish. Something like €/m² of ready to use hardwood table surface would be closer to tell the whole story, since other finishes take multiple coats to get you there.
I was surprised not to hear any discussion of how these compare to those options. After all, that's what all of these are being compared to, right? Or, do they only get compared to each other?
Can't wait for the ceramics video! There's very little info on these out there. I put Rubio on an acacia butcher block and everything from mustard to kids "washable" markers and even pencil marks go right through the finish and get stuck there. I can't even erase the pencil.
rubio's durability is frankly laughable. It's not even actually a hardwax oil. The part two contains isocyanate, which reacts with the linseed oil to create a typical topcoat poly. It's chemically the same as polyurithane. The reason you have to sand so low is because it needs a scratch pattern to bond with. The best finish in this video is actually Odies with the tried and true coming in close second. This video is a suicide bombing attempt to denigrate the legitimacy of hardwax oils as a durable and beautiful finish. This is essentially just an advert for ceramic coatings, and i can break down the psychology of it if you want. This comment will likely be deleted soon. The whole video is intended to deceive, confuse, and bend the truth. don't believe even a second of it my friend. Ceramic coatings are poison now. The original ones were 95% silica (basically glass), but those are incredibly difficult to apply and repair. Anything that a mook like this guy can apply is only 8% silica max and perhaps 2-8% graphene oxide, which is highly carcinogenic and will mutate your cells giving you cancer.
Weird - I really think the wood plays such a major role in it. Need to do more playing around with the ceramics. Very cool product but man they are expensive
So since I'm being lazy and don't want to re-watch or search, what's your #1 for a kitchen butcherblock top on an island cabinet? This would be a primary-use application. I will trust your opinion 😀Love the in-depth analysis. Very comprehensive report, good job.
I like your way of analyzing things. very "scientific", I mean rigorous ans structured. This video is one of the very best I saw on TH-cam in months. Bravo
Used osmo on a big box butcher counter top and it’s been doing well. I give it a wipe with the boos oil every now and then. I really like the Rubio walnut stain/oil/whatever for walnut. Brings out the chocolate and not the orange that walnut sometimes does for me. Nice video, well done. 👍👍
Great video as always. It would be interesting to see whether these finishes still release any VOC's after the cure period. For example: If I look after myself and wear appropriate safety gear while applying (for example, Osmo) to a dresser for my kids, will it still release VOC's while they sleep next to it?
I don't disagree with the Rubio on maple or Polyx on darker wood. After trying all these, I STILL like precatalyzed lacquer with a satin finish. The only time I don't use it is for dinner tables that will get wet repeatedly.
Interesting that you had such good luck with Osmo, the first time I used it on walnut all it had to do was look at a sweaty cup and it had a permanent ring.
Great video👍 I enjoy woodworking but finishing process with the endless options can test your patience. When it comes to VOCs get a multi had combo respirator cartridge like 3m 60926 to protect you from and will organic or particulate when woodworking or chlorine or acidic gases for you pool or strong cleaners
What was the #2? I like it better than #4... LOL I personally use Tried and True... mainly because I am cheap and don't like to wait!!! Thanks for this video, very entertaining and instructive.
tried and true is lovely! also, i'm not sure why this guy said it wasn't a traditional hardwax oil... tried and true is actually the most traditional of all the ones presented here. Rubio and general finishes contain isocyanate and therefore are just flat not hardwax oils, Osmo contains weird nasty solvents and other additives (and some formulas also contains isocyanate), atomic finishes and bumbleshoots to my knowledge doesn't polymerize (don't quote me on that they might), and Odie's is great but they claim that they've put the ingredients through proprietary processes unlike any other finishes. Tried and true is old school, bog standard, TRADITIONAL hardwax oil. This guy doesn't know ANYTHING about fuckin anything. This video is a joke and his comment on tried and true proves it!
For me, not having to wear a respirator is more important than protection or cost, so Rubio remains my pick for the best balance of factors. I’m comfortable applying it without a respirator, it’s ready to use within a relatively short window, it’s convenient to apply to large pieces, and it doesn’t look awful like that No. 4 sample (I hate film finishes and excessively dark walnut-its beauty is the warm and varied tones, not in looking like a warm charcoal paint). 🤷♂️
Great video. I have used Rubio and Odie's and like them both for different reasons. i will give general a try now that I have watched this. Very interesting. Shows that you need to know your product and when to use it.
Lately, I've mostly used boiled linseed oil and put a few coats of polyurethane on for surfaces that see use. I've tried using paste wax, but I find it's a major hassle for larger boards. For food-safe woodworking projects, I've recently been converted to pure tung oil. I've never played with any of these hard wax finishes. Maybe I should give them a try.
The problem with the general finishes hard wax is you have to buy the hardener separate unlike with the Rubio, with that said you can use the same bottle of hardener with multiple cans of the hard wax.
Just as a helpful tip, be careful not to spray any bearings with WD-40. I learned the hard way that WD-40 washes away grease on parts that are supposed to be greased such as bearings, and when you wash that grease away, the bearings will significantly have a shorter lifespan. After a few more uses, any bearing will become completely destroyed and lock up on you.
Regular WD40 is a penetrating oil and will remove grease, cosmoline, etc but what he uses here is their dry lube, which is diff than the traditional WD40 can.
To keep my light color woods light, I have been using Rubio with the 5% white. Looks good but I’ll let you know in a couple of years if I really like it.
Can't wait for the ceramics video, and I'm wondering: did you include one of the more cheaply-available automotive ceramic finishes in your test? I know some have turned to those after balking at the high cost of the available products aimed at woodworkers, but there aren't many reports on results yet.
About 6-7 years ago it seemed to come out of nowhere all of a sudden, I started getting requests from architects and designers to use Monocoat on their projects. As a professional cabinet maker,millworker I do see fads pop up but this one was massive
I hate that you have to use Rubio’s stains to ensure adhesion with their topcoat. Not a fan of that and their stains aren’t great. Plus they don’t protect well compared to a film finish. And they’re really expensive.
#4 and #1 we're actually my least favorites. If like to know what products 2 and 3 were. With that said, what furniture you're finishing would make a difference it seems. Different for a baby's crib versus a dresser versus a dining room table!? I don't know personally... Just a novice but I'm curious if you think so....
Absolutely fantastic video, thank you both for the incredible amount of time and planning this took! Woodworking and finishing go hand in hand, and one of the things everyone finds out eventually is that you cannot trust the label on your finishes. It's unfortunate that manufacturers are allowed to get away with this nonsense, but we are extremely fortunate lads like you are out there testing this stuff exhaustively. Cheers, and subbed
9/22/23..yur video on (high end) oil-wax finishes (Odies, Rubio etc) was #1A+ for understandability, camera (lighting) close up quality viewing...& great humor not only from yur comments but also with numerous 'splice-in quickie' shots. Much enjoyed this video but you should know...my local Walmart & 'big box' stores, all ez & convenient, don't have these 'fancy' finishes. So I am stuck with the ez to get Minwax or Varithane(?) & just pouring it on & repeating till 'good enough'.. then, at age 78, I want a beverage & fantasize about all those 'fancy oils'. Great comparisons, science/odor/cancer analysis & resistance to..xyz..stains/spills & drips...all made this video a pleasure to watch. Again, Great video! 👍🤗🍷
Great video Jon. I just ordered Bumblechutes for a commissioned project - before actually watching your video I had already ordered the product. Feeling good about that now. One question, did you do any preparation, other than sanding, when applying the hard wax oils? A bumblechutes representative suggested I should first ally their All in One Wood finish and then the Beebooba. Wondering if the All Wood Finish application is actually needed or just apply the Beenooba wax based on your experiments. These are drink tray a restaraunt will be using. Any ideas?
For the 2.86 seconds that the four samples appeared near the end, my pick was #2. I'm not a fan of hard-looking, shiny finishes. They look like the wood has been embalmed. Just kidding, but kinda true, even though there may be practical reasons for some furniture pieces to be covered by 8" of plasticy looking stuff (again, exaggerating) the wood should show up more than the finish. Thanks for the great comparison, and testing. It was eye-opening.
As an escapee from the contract office furniture dealership world, light exposure on the wood furniture affects the pieces, too. It’s been 8 years since I left, and while I’m sure the manufacturing process and products being applied are improved since even a decade ago…the UV protection is no match for daily exposure to sunlight. Maples yellowed up and other species either faded or darkened… For what we’re doing at our home? We’re happy with Odies.
I do alot of sample tests when doing a project, usually end up going with water based matte poly. Does not darken the wood, but brings out grain and provides a much more durable finish than any of the oil/wax finishes social media users use. Classic finishes like danish, toung, shellac while very durable/long lasting I don't care for the color change effect it has. Being said, each wood species will change is different ways with different products. These social media hyped finishes? Think would be good option on surfaces that do not see daily/rough use and also where ease of application would help. Book shelves, etc. Or even wall panels/ceiling panels
I hate to be the guy who is never satisfied, but I am currently feeling that same level of frustration at the end of every video that says “to be continued” because I need to see the ceramics test before I will be fully satisfied. Thanks for the video, and I am anxious in anticipation for the next one.
I'm interested in Fiddes. Their website says to just apply it with a brush and that's it, but it seems your video says it can be applied like Rubio with a squeegee and buffed out. Just looking for clarification on the best way to apply.
You mention that any of these would be "torched in the sun" if used outside. Thoughts on using these on indoor wood that'll be sitting in the sunshine by a window? Are they that sensitive?
Great video as always! I use hard wax oils (Rubio) on big projects, is easy and fast to apply. But for smaller projects like music boxes, I still use shellac that I mix myself, natural product and easy to use.😃
@@thehangardesigns Shellac is a film finish, but idk if that's what you mean exactly. For the mix, what "cut" (weight of flakes & ratio to alcohol) are you using? 1lb cut is way thinner than a 5lb cut.
I love odies oil. I've used it on tables all over my house. I even put it on my butcher block island. It smells good and seems to do a good job of protecting the wood. You must rub it in well, and then buff off, so it is operator error if it doesn't work for you.
Check out Suman's video here - th-cam.com/video/6QUaiWeWjP0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VIMEuuyUN7UL-dfx
I am a biochemist, and for what it's worth, I am impressed at the way you handled the complex conversation around VOCs. I love seeing people acknowledge risks and uncertainty, and I do appreciate the pragmatic take.
Much appreciated - it’s not an easy topic to unpack. Thanks again
What always striked me (being an organic chemist) as odd is that Rubyo contains isocyanates, yet everybody seems to ignore this. They are even the only one having a friggin GHS symbol on them. Granted, it's just the lame exclamation mark, but still. Isocyanates are very well known for being harmful in a multitude of ways and that's why I decided to stick to linseed based oils instead. Despite the ease of application and low curing time being presented in a very tempting way throughout the interwebs.
@@christiannorf1680 Been a minute since I looked at their MSDS sheet but I believe just the accelerator has isocyanates. It is so hard to communicate the gradient of risk profiles for different types of finishes because it requires some base level understanding that cannot be assumed on an audience from all types of background.
@@WoodcraftBySuman Isn't it usually used with the accelerator?
I totally get it, I often get seemingly easy chemistry or biology related questions that are really hard to answer.
I was just wondering because it stands out with the warning sign and all. But maybe I am just sensitized from my profession and the average joe things more along the lines of "Eh, the dishwasher detergent has the same label". Dunno
Hmm it kind of depends on a lot of things. If their finish stoichiometry is correct, and there are no free isocyanate left after cure it ought to be fine. Plus isocyanate reactions are VOC free. I think if you were wearing proper PPE it ought to be fine. As long as the original free isocyanate isn't volatile, but that seems pretty dangerous to not disclose to consumers. Coming from a polymer chemist.
Sorry I passed out from the fumes during testing. My video is almost done 😂
I’m looking forward to it myself! It’s probably a informative one!
I’m looking forward to it
Hilarious
I have almost done that painting effects pedal boxes for guitars.
Dope shirt dude. Cheers from Wyoming 🍻
First time visitor here and I must say, well done! Coming from an automotive paint background I agree with your recommendation for using a respirator. The thing most people don’t realize is that if they have been using these products for a long period of time they have probably become desensitized to any odor they emit so they don’t smell anything. Pay attention when visitors come into your space and comment how much it stinks! Wear a respirator!
I rarely comment on any YT videos, but this series that you’ve been doing on finishes has been fantastic. I know you put a lot of focus on video performance analytics as to which videos you leave on the channel, but all of your finish test videos are better than any others out there.
Glad you like them!
I've been in coatings for decades.. As a younger man, 20's, I and my coworkers decided to forego the respirators with much more harsh chemicals like lacquer thinner, paint strippers, etc.. For the last couple of decades I have developed a sensitivity to chemicals, such as perfumes that are so bad that if I were to walk down the laundry aisle in a store, by the end of the aisle I'd be gasping for air..
Wear the respirator... yes it sucks.. wear it..
LOL. I picked 2.
So did I. I do prefer an unfinished look (well, other than stain).
Same!
I consider myself a hobby woodworker but have sold about 10 pieces of furniture to friends and family and I have used all but 2 of the products you listed and have settled on Osmo. And per your comment on how we have fooled ourselves into believing we like dull finishes I have been using the glossy osmo 3011. I came to this conclusion myself after showing test boards to friends and family and the few clients I build for and ALL of them picked either the 3011 or conversion varnish. I must admit I have moved back to spraying finishes on large projects and table tops as the water based conversion varnishes are now very good and it is ultimately faster. I know people are going to say “film finishes are not repairable “ but for me, a guy who builds mostly mission furniture out of dye stained QS W. Oak, if you have a finish failure your repair process is complicated no matter the finish.
Hi Jon, it is extremely valuable for manufacturers like us to understand the market needs and expectations. Thank you for preparing this video. Nevertheless, we would be more than happy to send our products for your review.
I've been using your products for a few projects now, I like them. Even during the cold months when my shop hovers around 30 degrees they seam to work pretty good
Hard Wax oil is so easy to make in the shop that I am amazed the companies that sell ya a little can for $50 can stay in business. Buy a lab hot plate from Amazon, some hard wax of your choice, some limone orange peel solvent (a more pleasant smell for the shop/home as well), get a can of tung or linseed oil and a bag of pine resin for some sheen, heat it all to 153 or so to meld it together and Bob's yer uncle. There are plenty of TH-cam videos about the process, it makes your finish one of the less expensive parts of your build with surprisingly good results. You could also ask people who make their living with fine woodworking if THEY are wasting resources the way us amateurs do. -Veteran '66-68
I don't even do any woodworking myself but watching someone talk about something they are passionate about is always fun and interesting.
I appreciate you more than you know - Thanks!
This is great information for all new woodworkers to watch (and honestly a lot of veteran wood workers too). It's a very dangerous hobby/profession that can be amazingly fulfilling when handled appropriately and safely. It's a great reminder that the risks are not just with the blade aspect but the chemicals we use and the byproducts around. So thanks for shedding this light, and hopefully it encourages other woodworking influencers to lead by example and educate while entertaining.
Wait.. what was the finish used on the #1 piece at 17:43? I actually liked that one better than #4. Also, can't wait for the ceramics video.. Thanks for the great content as always!
#1 was my choice also
I chose #2 actually. I have a question about the wipe test. What does it take to repair that wipe damage?
Really simple on hard oil or wax , just add some oil on a damaged parts. Rubio is in thid case to espacially good in.
Yeah just reapply is the solution which is good enough imo, since it’s so easy..
I liked 2 the best as well.
As always, great video with the right touch of fun and keeping the topic interesting! Really like your channel!
Thanks again for giving our Bee’Nooba Wax a shot 🐝 💪
Great product!
When will you be making it available in Canada? I would love to try it!
This review locked in my decision to use Bumblechutes on a crib I'm getting ready to build for my newest granddaughter!
Hi which product least changed the natural wood color. Thank you
I used osmo on my kitchen worktops. Great stuff, easy to use, lasts ages before having to sand and reapply. In 6 years I’ve only sanded and reapplied once, that said it is due another soon
I used Rubio on my maple island countertop ans it was the easiest thing to apply. After 10-15 minutes I buffed let it cure for a week and I love the look of almost raw wood.
Fantastic video as usual! Glad to see a ceramics video is on the way. If it's not too late, I'm super curious to see woodworking ceramic coatings up against a typical automotive ceramic coating.
This exactly, I'm about to test some rainx ceramics on sample walnut cutoffs
SO grateful for this video. between this and the sandpaper tests alone you've already contributed so much to this community, appreciate you sir
Thank you!
Very slick and informative presentation. As a 'noob' WRT to these finishes, I feel much more informed not about these hardwax oils, but also side bar information about finishes in general. Merci beaucoup
Glad it was helpful!
I've always liked the look of a couple coats of 100% Tung oil followed by a beeswax buffed in. Not as quick as an all in one can, but also quite cheap.
Thank you for a great video. As always it appears to be unbiased and loaded with a very appropriate level of humor. Did you consider re-applying the finish after the stain test to see how easily or difficult the stain is to repair?
Thank you for putting in the effort into these types of videos! I really appreciate the clarity this brings with all of these hard wax/oil finishes!! Upon closer look I recognized the logo on the ceramic coating used on sample #4, I am looking forward to that video!!
I’m a huge a Odies Oil fan. I got hooked when I started refinishing and it’s carried over as I’m progressing in the building side of things. I’ve tried Rubio just to see what the fuss about and I much prefer the Odies. Surface prep and follow the directions. A little more work but it’s worth it
Yeah, like some of the other finishes they have an advantage for sanding to a higher grit. It’s a solid product!
A way to cheat extra shine is to come back after a day or two, I sand it with. 2000 or higher grit and then go back with their wood butter, 2 year old projects look like I just oiled them yesterday. Their pigments are cool and you can make endless custom colors, I don’t do it very often but their cool to have on hand
I probably only finish three or four pieces of furniture a year, but this has convinced me I should get a respirator, since I do mostly use Osmo.
This is life changing. I have been using satin poly all my life. This is like walking out of the barn and into the sun (with sunscreen). Your thoroughness in testing would make the FDA jealous.
I don't often find myself anxiously awaiting a youtube video, but I am anxiously awaiting your ceramic coat review video. I feel embarrassed that I've never heard of this before watching your video today, but I'm impressed by just your brief demonstration. It looks durable and beautiful.
Me too. And what ceramic can successfully go over. And is it repairable. Thanks in advance!
I have been working with Osmo quite a bit lately and a few comments: 1. I found the fumes in a double garage to be pretty strong and started wearing a respirator - thanks for validating that was a good move! 2. I placed two objects with rubber feet on my shop cabinets finished with Osmo and both left marks from the rubber feet that I was not able to wash or scrub off... it looks like sand and refinish - I am not impressed with this 3. Several professional furniture makers have noted that the Osmo of today is not the same as the Osmo of prior years. They don't know what changed but do not find it as durable and some have switched to Fiddes for that reason. 4. I really like Osmo Raw's appearance on maple and birch - worth comparing to clear.
I used Osmo for the first time recently. All the videos make it seem like it doesn't have a strong odor, but after only a few minutes of working with it I grabbed my respirator. My VOC monitor showed a modest elevation but it dropped of very quickly with ventilation. I'd say wear a respirator while applying, but if you have fresh air coming in it's probably safe after an hour. The smell seems to linger for longer than the VOCs stay elevated, so when the smell is gone you know its safe.
I used clear satin on ash and it looks pretty good. The effect is subtle compared to more traditional finishes, but it definitely adds contrast to the grain, though the sheen leaves a little to be desired imo. I'm thinking of trying the gloss next.
Any time I use my harbor freight clamps with the black rubber jaw pads I get the same thing, I think it's residual oil squeezing out from the manufacturing process. Definitely not ideal.
Did you try the rubber foot test with the fiddles? Thats a deal breaker for me using blenders and other things with rubber feet on my counters.
@@jstins - I haven't tried Fiddes yet - I was just noting that some professional furniture makers I follow have switched from Osmo to Fiddes over the last year or so.
@@jstinsA bit late but may be helpful for some people, recently had an issue with rubber feet leaving marks on fiddes. Seemed like it was almost a grease type problem or like the surface of the rubber had denatured/softened slightly. Very annoying though as it seems to stand up to most other wear pretty well
Great video, I didn't think you talked too much at all. Really liked the breakdowns with real numbers 👍🏽👏🏽
I know you discussed this, but I think it’s very important to note that not all volatiles are the same. The nature of the solvent is key. For example, shellac has a ton of VOCs in it, but it’s just ethanol which while technically a toxin, isn’t the same thing as methyl ethyl ketone.
You are exactly right. However, it is essentially cost prohibitive to test all these samples in a lab to get proper chemical composition and measure their relative toxicity with known agents and their potency. Even then, there are lots of nuances and complications that is simply beyond the scope of a woodworker. At the end of the day, precaution and ppe is probably the best way to go.
@WoodcraftBySuman Trust me dust is a bigger problem than voc's from these products.
@@Dickie2702 it's highly variable. For instance, the VOCs in Minwax oil based poly give me severe headaches if I do not use a respirator with a vapor blocking filter. Osmo Poly-X bothers me too but not as bad - I certainly would not apply Osmo in a unventilated area without a respirator. I've never had any sort of reaction with Monocoat, Odie's, or Tried & True.
@joewilson4436 I couldn't tell you what Osmo smells like as I wouldn't apply any finish without PPE. I have been in the business for over 50 years, so as an employer I have to take Health and Safety very seriously, we get inspected by our regulatory body on a regular basis.
Rubio Mono Coat is like Woodpeckers Tools a fantastic piece of exploitative marketing. Everybody on Woodworker on TH-cam seems to have a big 'red' tool wall behind them as they are applying their massively overpriced and over rated Rubio. Osmo has a very long track record and produces a wide range of excellent products, their Exterior Oil will last several years on outdoor furniture before requiring a recoat. Rubio is also six times the price of Osmo in the UK and certainly not six times superior and yes we have evaluated it. Ceramic coating though appear to be quite interesting.
@@Dickie2702 it’s hard to make a broad statement like that to be honest. Bc it really depends on the specific finish and the compounds within it. Sawdust is cacenogenic but mostly for nasal cancer and increases relative risk ratio by 3.1x from what I remember. Not a lot of other types of cancer with solid data and remarkable increases risk due to sawdust exposure alone (lung cancer for example is 1.19x ish). But say there is benzene or formaldehyde in a finish, as an occupational level of exposure, bet ya that’s gonna get you before the sawdust.
Fantastic work Jon! Really appreciate all the time and effort you put in to this.
Much appreciated!
My favorite finish these days is Odie’s oil and it smells great!
Sure. But Lots of these oils smell great. Simple Finish by maker brand smells like baking pizza crust to me. But that doesn’t mean it’s not harmful.
Some of them maxed out the VOC meter nonetheless so we can’t just use scent to determine potential danger.
Nice comparison. Another test that I would like to see is ease of cleaning and resistance / compatibility with common household cleaners. The scenario I have in mind is food bits and pieces smeared on the table (think mashed potatoes, yogurt, tomato sauce, cereal pudding, etc) and left to dry completely for a few days - possibly resulting in some of the hardest materials know to man! Then cleaning of the surface with general purpose surface cleaners, including some containing alcohol and bleach. The results should show how clean the surface is and how much damage (if any) the finish has suffered. I have a dinner table finished with wipe-on poly and it passes the test with flying colors, can be cleaned completely, possibly scrubbing it with a cloth with household cleaner and there is no permanent damage to the finish.
I’ve sold industrial wood coatings for 17 years and would highly recommend a film forming finish over any of these hard wax oils with regard to abrasion, impact resistance, wiping and scrubbing. Don’t get me wrong you can make anything fail but I’d much rather have 2-4 mils of chemically cross-linked film protecting the wood than a non-film forming finish. I would personally go with an acrylic urethane or your catalyzed water-based recommendation on anything that requires regular wiping and cleaning. However, this requires a spray application which intimidates most. Cheers.
Hey Jon, thanks for doing all the hard work for us. If I had to do this testing on my own, I'd lose it about halfway through and pull the car back into the garage...... Plus, it's hard for us Weekenders to afford all those finishes just to test out what they look like on various woods. One quick question though, what does your neighbor use?
Thanks for all the hard work and time that went into making this very informative video!
One of the great things about Osmo is the shear number of options that they offer. It’s also one of the things that makes it a little confusing especially when you factor in that because it is a multinational brand there are some products that have been specifically developed for each branch market. The 3043 satin finish you are using here actually has a higher VOC content than some of its counterparts. 3043 is recommended for a brushed or rolled application, while 3053 which was developed for North America as a lower VOC option with higher solids content is recommended for a cloth application. Don’t get me wrong it still has VOC so if you want to truly go low VOC you need to get some 5125 which is the highest solids option and therefore also the most expensive, but it builds a coat twice as fast. Two thin coats of 5125 is a pretty easy stoping point, by comparison I would say you would want to do 3-4 coats of the 3043 or 3053. It makes sense when you think about it though Osmo is a flooring product. If you want build a thick finish quickly on a new floor you go with 5125. If you want give an existing Osmo finished floor a quick refresh you go with a quick coat of 3043 or 3053 to bump back up the sheen and protection with a slightly faster drying time due to the added thinners.
I am eager for the ceramic follow-up. I have been using it on my cars for years, and am interested to see your results. I was not a fan of how much it darkened the walnut, so hopefully there are others that keep the more natural look (I liked #1 in the blind test).
Love your build and finish videos! After many years I’ve just started paying much more attention to this. While I’ve settled on the look and feel of pure bees wax for finishing most of what I’ve been doing, I’ve been looking into more options. Thank you for this
Very informative, I think you are one of the few TH-camrs that only recommends products that you have actually tested and used and that’s why I will keep watching! 😁
As a long time hobbyist woodworker, I find these tests interesting and really enjoy your videos. My outlook though is, comparing "Food Safe" finishes to not food safe finishes to be, not apples to apples. In all actuality if I am working on something not to be used as a food safe item I will most likely be reaching for a poly and for food safe, at this moment in time, reach for Tried and True. I know the Tried and True will need to be reapplied through the items lifetime. Many of the other 'better' finishes for something like an end-table or tabletop are expensive compared to the products' selling points. Remember, I am a 'hobbyist' not someone making a living from my woodworking.
TLDR; the info is great and thanks for the time and effort put into the making of the video. I look forward to all your videos.
Oh, and PS....
I have a table saw that hasnt been lubed in over 5 years (I dont PM my tools as religiously as I should either)😉. I definitely will look into the WD dry lube. Thanks again.
Actually, all film finishes once fully cured safe for food contact - just the manufacturers know there is a market for "food safe" and will gladly make money on that.
@@Mike-bh7sh From what I can tell, most finishes in the category of "food safe" are just not film finishes, because you don't want your cutting board imparting bits of plastic into the onion you're chopping. From a different perspective, film finishes could be considered the most food safe because food liquids and the bacteria they carry aren't going to penetrate into the wood grain and fester, so poly might be fine for something like a fruit bowl.
I'm scratching my head, feeling akin to watching a weather report telling me it's sunny out, but when I look out my window I see that it is raining. I have been in the high end of wood finishing for well over 30 years and my own experience with Odie's, Rubio and Osmo could NOT be any more different. After years of using Rubio, learning all about it's strengths and weaknesses, we switched to Odie's, because basically it addressed all of Rubio's weaknesses and brought some truly unexpected bonuses that we were able to turn into more offerings and business in general, as well as happier customers.
For example, Rubio failed time and time again on certain exotics, especially oily ones. Odie's did amazingly well on those or any species. Rubio sets up in 15-mins and the application and buff off cycle has to be completed within that time frame. Imagine doing that on 2000sf! It gets annoying and time consuming constantly switching pads. With Odie's we can complete the entire job application and buff off after without stress of having waited too long. Much more efficient work flow, especially on large projects, which was the exact opposite of what you said in the video!
Rubio requires that the highest you sand is about 120. Why, if it's truly a molecular bonding finish as they claim? It's because once you mix it with the catalyst, it bonds to that instead of the wood fiber and needs the scratch pattern for adhesion. Not so with Odie's. You can sand up to 5000 if you wanted to, it will still bond. Which brings me to my next point (one of the unexpected bonuses I referenced earlier). You can get a high gloss with Odie's! The higher you sand, the higher the shine! Try that with any of the others!
Odie's is tung oil based. It is truly a marine grade finish. It performed much better in kitchens (or outdoors) than Rubio. I know because I had both in my kitchen with 4 kids and a big dog. :)
The VOC topic in this industry is confusing at best, lies at worst. VOC's are not the problem. Trees emit VOC's. Isocyanates found in the catalyst is what we should be worried about. Rubio has isocyanates, Odie's does not.
I could go on and on and on. We tried most and we only use Odie's on all our products at this point. However, I will submit that we too had failures in the beginning. Learning how to correctly apply and remove the product was key!
Don’t scratch that head too hard!
Dear lord. How much did James pay you to regurgitate the Odies product flier?
@@TheHesitantHandyman I told you my real life experience. I purposely gave specific examples, not talking points. You on the other hand only got talking points it seems . Why don't you get specific too? Which part do you have a problem with SPECIFICALLY?
Thank you, Sir! Such a good insight! This guy just posted an amateur video just to get monetized after he saw he got to 1.5 million views on his last video bashing on finishes.
@@mihaialexandrina2227 I mean how do you do a review of a product and completely ignore it's best features? Is it lack of knowledge or deliberate misinformation? Either way, the credibility of the review comes into question.
Interesting note on the variation between different chunks of wood. My guess is this might be down to the direction of the grain, especially with open pore woods like walnut. Whether the grain is more parallel or perpendicular probably affects how well the finish soaks into the wood. I did similar tests and Monocoat outperformed Osmo in my test. Though I've been using Tried & True for most stuff these days, the cost, ease of application (no mixing of two-parts, I'm looking at you Monocoat), shelf life (again, Monocoat is terrible in this regard) and ability to build up a nice sheen if you sand to a high grit are what won me over. For table tops and such I use Tried & True Varnish Oil - which has a pine resin in addition to the linseed oil and wax. I haven't done any scientific testing but this seems to be noticeably more durable than the original T&T oil+wax finish. It also builds a glossier sheen than most other oil+wax finishes. T&T Danish Oil - a confusing and dumb name as this is simply pure polerymized linseed oil - is a great finish for tool handles or other things around the shop too
I went with number 3 😁.
Incredible video, thank you.
My favorite finish freaks out most woodworkers. I apply polymerized tung oil and follow that with general's waterbased high gloss over the wet tung oil. I then knock the shine down with 0000 and finish with paste wax. You have to try it to believe it.
This is really helpful, finishes are always stressful to me.
I typically just use Tung oil and that's it but I have thought about trying something else.
What a great video! In my opinion, perfectly paced, very entertaining and educational. It was a pleasure to watch. You kept my attention(hard to do) throughout the video and I walked away with valuable knowledge. A template on how to make a comparison/review video. Great job! Thank you! Oh, and it's the first time in a long time I didn't skip the sponsor part:) I'm getting a can and getting to my table saw!
Much appreciated and thank you for supporting the channel it goes a long way!
I really like the angle of making the products into “contestants “. It assigned a contest like atmosphere to the video.
Great video!
Glad you liked it!
Yes Sir. Anytime you can teach (or inform) and keep it entertaining, it gets the job done.
I learn so much for woodworking videos on youtube. you are one of the best teachers. subbed!
What's missing is the comparsion with pure Linseed oil and/or combined with a mixture of bee wax and (natural) turpentine. Ah, and don't forget shellack in regards to protection and look. Your pieces probably need a bit more time to rest, but the long time performance is better. It's the same with bone glue. It takes a bit more time to dry, but I think that 2000 year old furniture found in egyptian graves, which is still holding itself together, is the most convincing argument in regards to durability...
My table saw trunnion gears look like yours did, I'm picking up a can of that WD-40 Dry Lube on the way home tonight! Oh, and the rest of the video on the finishes was great too. Nice work!
I put that dry lube on my saw blades after I clean them. A sponsor whose stuff works!
I just used Odie's Oil and Odie's Butter on a tabletop. I'm visiting the client's home again on Monday, 3 weeks after finish application. I'll do some testing on it to see how it worked out.
Thanks for the video. Lots of great info. And I've really been wanting to get into ceramic coatings. One thing to test out would be how long can you wait after the initial finish to apply the ceramic? Does it have to be almost immediately after the cure rate of the finish? Or can it be applied a month later? 6 months later?
How does it look three weeks later?
These products are expensive, so I mostly go with boiled linseed oil and beeswax, but I think I will follow your excellent advice. THANK YOU for your excellent experiment and explanation.
I´m using tung oil up to seven coats for fluid resistance, durability and outdoor constructions. No chemicals and perfect results even though it darkens the wood, of course. This way you have no variations in shiny colors or shades but it´s durable and even protects wood from metal stains. For shiny finishes I polish the surface with bee wax. Sometimes I am combining linseed oil and wax. I must admit, I never used walnut. I guess tung oil would darken the surface way too much. But hey, no chemicals - good for the environment, good for the people.
Can’t argue with that!
My daughters dresser we refinished we painted frame and top with beyond paint and then I used Odie’s on the drawer faces. The bottle went a long way and actual smells pleasant (I applied on back patio so well vented) but I didn’t mind being out there and even though labor intensive rubbing in and then buffing off I wasn’t suffocating in fumes which was nice.
it definitely has a good smell to it
I would love a reveal of the other numbers. 2 and 3 look good!!!!
Excellent video! Except now I wish your video on ceramic coatings was out...
I'm a total amateur about to stain a butcher block desktop for my kids and I really don't know what coating to use on top. I was going to use polyurethane, but your other video on finishes led me here... and now I don't know what to use. 🤔
Wow! I’ve never been a fan of the matte wood finishes. (There I said it.) I’ve been scratching my head for years wondering what I’M not seeing that everyone else is. Not that I’m suggesting “grand piano gloss”, but I don’t see a lot of life in a lot of these matte finishes? Also not sure why ease of application outweighs longevity & durability. Your spur of the moment scrub test was eye opening, to say the least. I really appreciated your comments on these subjects. I look forward to the ceramics video and hope the “scrub test” shows up there too.
I feel similarly. Matte and satin finishes have become popular in recent times, seemingly as part of an interior design trend of not wanting any piece of furniture to stand out so as to achieve a "neutral" looking room. To me, that just sounds like wanting your living room to look like the waiting room at a doctor's office: a transitional space you aren't meant to remember, as opposed to a space actually inhabited by people. Gloss finishes bring out more contrast in grain, as well as draw the eye to complex joinery and other multifaceted details because of how light is reflected. They're good finishes for showing off the work that went into a piece.
As for ease of application, it can make a huge difference to some people. Polyurethane requires a lot of preparation, time, and skill, and personally I hate working with these toxic chemicals, it's by far the least fun part of this craft. I'll make some compromises for my health and sanity, though maybe not for something that needs a really durable finish, like a dining table.
Thanks for watching and I totally agree with you! As far as the ceramics, no amount of scrubbing does anything to them. It’s like a poly or lacquer - pretty damn bullet proof
I’m the opposite. I used to use crappy wood and then put a crap ton of film finish on it and polish it up to a mirror shine. When I made the switch to using expensive hardwood and my skill improved to justify using said material I go for penetrating finishes to show off the natural quality of the wood rather than just encase it in plastic.
That being said. If you are in an environment where your furniture is going to get abused or used by children, etc. then maybe you shouldn’t have a 3000 dollar TV stand until they grow up. Or just encase it in plastic so they can draw all over it.
I really don’t care one way or another what other people like or choose to do. We all have different perspectives. But to me the natural finish of a penetrating oil feels classier. There obviously is no right or wrong here.
The debate of film vs penetrating oil will rage on forever.
Incredibly thorough and informative video. Thank you for that, it was very helpful for my next project (including the tip on respirators!).
Really good Video!
One addition:
The ratio of the voc test from surface to aiir volume is roughly 0,3m²/m³ . That would scale up to applying finish on a 15m² (e.g 7m long by 2,2m board) in a 20m² room with no vent/open Windows.
In my opinion the price comparsion should be in more useful format. Cents per ml doesnt really tell the price of the finish. Something like €/m² of ready to use hardwood table surface would be closer to tell the whole story, since other finishes take multiple coats to get you there.
I would love to see a comparison to pre-catalyzed lacquer and conversion varnish (more for the pro market).
I was surprised not to hear any discussion of how these compare to those options. After all, that's what all of these are being compared to, right? Or, do they only get compared to each other?
great video, but 1.5 months too late for my last project, but I did home brew of wax, turpentine and varnish with good results
Can't wait for the ceramics video! There's very little info on these out there. I put Rubio on an acacia butcher block and everything from mustard to kids "washable" markers and even pencil marks go right through the finish and get stuck there. I can't even erase the pencil.
rubio's durability is frankly laughable. It's not even actually a hardwax oil. The part two contains isocyanate, which reacts with the linseed oil to create a typical topcoat poly. It's chemically the same as polyurithane. The reason you have to sand so low is because it needs a scratch pattern to bond with. The best finish in this video is actually Odies with the tried and true coming in close second. This video is a suicide bombing attempt to denigrate the legitimacy of hardwax oils as a durable and beautiful finish. This is essentially just an advert for ceramic coatings, and i can break down the psychology of it if you want. This comment will likely be deleted soon. The whole video is intended to deceive, confuse, and bend the truth. don't believe even a second of it my friend. Ceramic coatings are poison now. The original ones were 95% silica (basically glass), but those are incredibly difficult to apply and repair. Anything that a mook like this guy can apply is only 8% silica max and perhaps 2-8% graphene oxide, which is highly carcinogenic and will mutate your cells giving you cancer.
Weird - I really think the wood plays such a major role in it. Need to do more playing around with the ceramics. Very cool product but man they are expensive
So since I'm being lazy and don't want to re-watch or search, what's your #1 for a kitchen butcherblock top on an island cabinet? This would be a primary-use application. I will trust your opinion 😀Love the in-depth analysis. Very comprehensive report, good job.
I don't have any real experience with butcher block tops - I'm bowing out on that one.
I like your way of analyzing things. very "scientific", I mean rigorous ans structured. This video is one of the very best I saw on TH-cam in months. Bravo
Honest Tea is in very short supply these days. Appreciate your energy and integrity!
Love the Miss Clavel quote - "That's all there is, there isn't any more"!
Used osmo on a big box butcher counter top and it’s been doing well. I give it a wipe with the boos oil every now and then. I really like the Rubio walnut stain/oil/whatever for walnut. Brings out the chocolate and not the orange that walnut sometimes does for me. Nice video, well done. 👍👍
Walnut color also looks amazing on white oak.
Great video as always. It would be interesting to see whether these finishes still release any VOC's after the cure period. For example: If I look after myself and wear appropriate safety gear while applying (for example, Osmo) to a dresser for my kids, will it still release VOC's while they sleep next to it?
wow! that's a lot of work and time invested in that concise video! Thank you and keep it up!
thanks!
Excellent review. Simple takeaway, wear a respirator and quit worrying about VOCs during application.
Also ventilate the shop. Air doesn’t magically clean itself just because you were wearing a respirator when working.
I don't disagree with the Rubio on maple or Polyx on darker wood. After trying all these, I STILL like precatalyzed lacquer with a satin finish. The only time I don't use it is for dinner tables that will get wet repeatedly.
Interesting that you had such good luck with Osmo, the first time I used it on walnut all it had to do was look at a sweaty cup and it had a permanent ring.
Great video👍
I enjoy woodworking but finishing process with the endless options can test your patience. When it comes to VOCs get a multi had combo respirator cartridge like 3m 60926 to protect you from and will organic or particulate when woodworking or chlorine or acidic gases for you pool or strong cleaners
Jon, or Lincoln, great video. I watch most of them of yours. I'm curious, which hardwax oil doesn't super darken the walnut?
What was the #2? I like it better than #4... LOL
I personally use Tried and True... mainly because I am cheap and don't like to wait!!!
Thanks for this video, very entertaining and instructive.
Me too, what the hell. During his spiel I was thinking, "I suppose it *is* obvious. Number 2 is the winner". I can't believe we didn't get the answer.
@@nicktourloukis ;-)
tried and true is lovely! also, i'm not sure why this guy said it wasn't a traditional hardwax oil... tried and true is actually the most traditional of all the ones presented here. Rubio and general finishes contain isocyanate and therefore are just flat not hardwax oils, Osmo contains weird nasty solvents and other additives (and some formulas also contains isocyanate), atomic finishes and bumbleshoots to my knowledge doesn't polymerize (don't quote me on that they might), and Odie's is great but they claim that they've put the ingredients through proprietary processes unlike any other finishes. Tried and true is old school, bog standard, TRADITIONAL hardwax oil. This guy doesn't know ANYTHING about fuckin anything. This video is a joke and his comment on tried and true proves it!
For me, not having to wear a respirator is more important than protection or cost, so Rubio remains my pick for the best balance of factors. I’m comfortable applying it without a respirator, it’s ready to use within a relatively short window, it’s convenient to apply to large pieces, and it doesn’t look awful like that No. 4 sample (I hate film finishes and excessively dark walnut-its beauty is the warm and varied tones, not in looking like a warm charcoal paint). 🤷♂️
Great video. I have used Rubio and Odie's and like them both for different reasons. i will give general a try now that I have watched this. Very interesting. Shows that you need to know your product and when to use it.
Lately, I've mostly used boiled linseed oil and put a few coats of polyurethane on for surfaces that see use. I've tried using paste wax, but I find it's a major hassle for larger boards. For food-safe woodworking projects, I've recently been converted to pure tung oil.
I've never played with any of these hard wax finishes. Maybe I should give them a try.
The problem with the general finishes hard wax is you have to buy the hardener separate unlike with the Rubio, with that said you can use the same bottle of hardener with multiple cans of the hard wax.
Just as a helpful tip, be careful not to spray any bearings with WD-40. I learned the hard way that WD-40 washes away grease on parts that are supposed to be greased such as bearings, and when you wash that grease away, the bearings will significantly have a shorter lifespan. After a few more uses, any bearing will become completely destroyed and lock up on you.
Regular WD40 is a penetrating oil and will remove grease, cosmoline, etc but what he uses here is their dry lube, which is diff than the traditional WD40 can.
To keep my light color woods light, I have been using Rubio with the 5% white. Looks good but I’ll let you know in a couple of years if I really like it.
Can't wait for the ceramics video, and I'm wondering: did you include one of the more cheaply-available automotive ceramic finishes in your test? I know some have turned to those after balking at the high cost of the available products aimed at woodworkers, but there aren't many reports on results yet.
Been using Odies, almost exclusively for about 10 yrs. Indoor and outdoor furniture, knife and tool handles, etc. Been as perfect as I can hope for
About 6-7 years ago it seemed to come out of nowhere all of a sudden, I started getting requests from architects and designers to use Monocoat on their projects. As a professional cabinet maker,millworker I do see fads pop up but this one was massive
They have a brilliant marketing strategy
I hate that you have to use Rubio’s stains to ensure adhesion with their topcoat. Not a fan of that and their stains aren’t great. Plus they don’t protect well compared to a film finish. And they’re really expensive.
#4 and #1 we're actually my least favorites. If like to know what products 2 and 3 were. With that said, what furniture you're finishing would make a difference it seems. Different for a baby's crib versus a dresser versus a dining room table!? I don't know personally... Just a novice but I'm curious if you think so....
Absolutely fantastic video, thank you both for the incredible amount of time and planning this took! Woodworking and finishing go hand in hand, and one of the things everyone finds out eventually is that you cannot trust the label on your finishes. It's unfortunate that manufacturers are allowed to get away with this nonsense, but we are extremely fortunate lads like you are out there testing this stuff exhaustively. Cheers, and subbed
Glad you enjoyed it! This one took quite a bit of time and planning thanks for noticing
9/22/23..yur video on (high end) oil-wax finishes (Odies, Rubio etc) was #1A+ for understandability, camera (lighting) close up quality viewing...& great humor not only from yur comments but also with numerous 'splice-in quickie' shots.
Much enjoyed this video but you should know...my local Walmart & 'big box' stores, all ez & convenient, don't have these 'fancy' finishes. So I am stuck with the ez to get Minwax or Varithane(?) & just pouring it on & repeating till 'good enough'.. then, at age 78, I want a beverage & fantasize about all those 'fancy oils'. Great comparisons, science/odor/cancer analysis & resistance to..xyz..stains/spills & drips...all made this video a pleasure to watch. Again, Great video! 👍🤗🍷
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching
Great video Jon. I just ordered Bumblechutes for a commissioned project - before actually watching your video I had already ordered the product. Feeling good about that now. One question, did you do any preparation, other than sanding, when applying the hard wax oils? A bumblechutes representative suggested I should first ally their All in One Wood finish and then the Beebooba. Wondering if the All Wood Finish application is actually needed or just apply the Beenooba wax based on your experiments. These are drink tray a restaraunt will be using. Any ideas?
For the 2.86 seconds that the four samples appeared near the end, my pick was #2. I'm not a fan of hard-looking, shiny finishes. They look like the wood has been embalmed. Just kidding, but kinda true, even though there may be practical reasons for some furniture pieces to be covered by 8" of plasticy looking stuff (again, exaggerating) the wood should show up more than the finish.
Thanks for the great comparison, and testing. It was eye-opening.
Just use cellulose sanding sealer, wait until dry and buff on the Beall system. Flawless.
As an escapee from the contract office furniture dealership world, light exposure on the wood furniture affects the pieces, too. It’s been 8 years since I left, and while I’m sure the manufacturing process and products being applied are improved since even a decade ago…the UV protection is no match for daily exposure to sunlight. Maples yellowed up and other species either faded or darkened…
For what we’re doing at our home? We’re happy with Odies.
Yeah UV is really rough. I mentioned the Odies fading because I keep all those samples in complete darkness, and it still faded.
I do alot of sample tests when doing a project, usually end up going with water based matte poly. Does not darken the wood, but brings out grain and provides a much more durable finish than any of the oil/wax finishes social media users use.
Classic finishes like danish, toung, shellac while very durable/long lasting I don't care for the color change effect it has.
Being said, each wood species will change is different ways with different products.
These social media hyped finishes? Think would be good option on surfaces that do not see daily/rough use and also where ease of application would help. Book shelves, etc. Or even wall panels/ceiling panels
I hate to be the guy who is never satisfied, but I am currently feeling that same level of frustration at the end of every video that says “to be continued” because I need to see the ceramics test before I will be fully satisfied. Thanks for the video, and I am anxious in anticipation for the next one.
You’re really not going to like me when I tell you it’s going to be a while before that one
@@Lincolnstww 😭
I'm interested in Fiddes. Their website says to just apply it with a brush and that's it, but it seems your video says it can be applied like Rubio with a squeegee and buffed out. Just looking for clarification on the best way to apply.
You mention that any of these would be "torched in the sun" if used outside. Thoughts on using these on indoor wood that'll be sitting in the sunshine by a window? Are they that sensitive?
Great video as always! I use hard wax oils (Rubio) on big projects, is easy and fast to apply. But for smaller projects like music boxes, I still use shellac that I mix myself, natural product and easy to use.😃
I’ve tried using shellac (mixed myself) so many times but I always get a filmy finish that feels plasticky. What’s your secret?
I love shellac for small projects too. Heck, even for bigger projects.
Thanks! Yeah my go to for boxes is deft spray lacquer. I’ve never been a huge shellac person but I know a lot of people swear by it
@@thehangardesigns Shellac is a film finish, but idk if that's what you mean exactly. For the mix, what "cut" (weight of flakes & ratio to alcohol) are you using? 1lb cut is way thinner than a 5lb cut.
I have seen Suman's video - great video got some new insights. Loved your video. Your both videos complete each other!
I love odies oil. I've used it on tables all over my house. I even put it on my butcher block island. It smells good and seems to do a good job of protecting the wood. You must rub it in well, and then buff off, so it is operator error if it doesn't work for you.